Yeah, that sounds completely normal. Crush an Ironman, fly half way across the world, win a 70.3. In eight total days. People around here should be more skeptical.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Yes, he has the potential to be one of the best. Needs to stay healthy.
Hope he spreads out his efforts and keeps winning.

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Team Zoot So Cal

Winning a race and going fast in it can be separated things. I bet the very next day he could have beaten you and I and most people reading in another 1/2 Ironman. Do you see the difference?

he got a really big motor about a year ago...

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

He does have a 10 year track record of backing up races though, sometimes doing 3 half ironmans in 3 weeks. And winning them. So I wouldn't say this is suspiciously out of character.

Halfs are a huge difference. Going sub 8 and then one week later sub 4 on a tough course is suspicious, no matter who the athlete is.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

This is deja vu to a couple year back when he went back to back to back and end up with an achilles injury and struggled to get his form for over a year and ended with surgery.

Suspicious of what? Someone who is in great shape and a training plan that is working?

He was beating professional athletes not you and I, Do you see the difference?

Halfs are a huge difference. Going sub 8 and then one week later sub 4 on a tough course is suspicious, no matter who the athlete is. //

You know for sure how long the course was?? Was it a fast day? Did he beat a deep world class field?? My guess this was just a chip shot for him after his Ironman, and you all conspiracy guys are just making way to much out of it.


You people seem to forger that a decade ago this guy had races that are still incredible today. I watched the day he set the Wildflower course record, one of the most difficult 1/2 Ironmans you will ever see, and he went a legit 3;51, running 1;11+ for a hilly, mostly dirt trail run. After that race I figured he would go on to dominate, but something got in his way, injury, illness, fatigue, but something put the brakes on what should have been a super dominant run of races. Perhaps he is just getting back to that form, worked out the issues that held him back from repeating that day, and is now showing us what he should have 10 years ago.


I dont know what is going on, he had a great season last year finishing off really fast, and is not continuing it this season. He did not come out of no where, unless you call 15 years of being a top triathlete and setting a record at Wildflower that I believe still stands nowhere. Just good he is figuring things out before age begins to degrade you to being off the podiums. But of course Cameron is setting a new bar for that one now too...

He was beating professional athletes not you and I, Do you see the difference?//

SO you would have the same feeling if he beat all the professional women too?? I will spell it out I guess, perhaps he is just so much better than the field he raced, in this nothing run of the mill 70.3, that he could be off 5% or more and still win. Kind of like Kate Ledecky in the 1500, she could get out of a 10k hard workout, jump into the olympic final and still win. Make it a smaller meet and she could breath every 10th stroke and still win.


And I think we have established that he is at the top of his game right now, so unless racing a handful of guys we know are in that league, he just might have had an easy day, in spite of the win...

monty your arguments for are just as inane as the arguments against... you're not going to convince anyone to change their minds.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I don't think anyone is forgetting anything, but results like this warrant suspicion. I would be suspicious no matter whom the athlete was.
There are a few outliers in sports who recover in incredibly fast, in running you have Yuta Shitara who has run sub 2:12 on 2 consecutive weekends, however just because an athlete has a track record of similar feats, doesn't make the person impervious to questioning and suspicion. I am giving Terrenzo the benefit of the doubt, as I do everyone, but we definitely should be able to talk about it.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

More importantly Monty can you please stop using bold. It’s extremely annoying, thanks.

Are you referring to time spent in Girona?

That being said, this is not out of the ordinary for Bozzone. Seems to go on these tears every season.

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Toro Performance

I like Monty's style of replying. To me it's a lot cleaner than the default quoting. I also enjoy reading his commentary, so I like that they stand out.

monty your arguments for are just as inane as the arguments against... you're not going to convince anyone to change their minds.//

Except I'm not making an argument. People are insinuating that he must be taking drugs(without actually saying it, which is chicken shit to me) to be able to do this. I'm not taking a stand one way or the other, just pointing out that he has had tremendous results in the past, even better than now by my reckoning. And I have no idea or not if he doped then, or now, or both. But without any evidence to the contrary, and his history from when he was a kid of being a great athlete, nothing in any of his performances leads me to any suspicion beyond the usual blanket thrown over all professional athletes. To my knowledge he has never been associated with drugs, missed or failed a test, or been in that camp of folks that deserve more scrutiny than others might get..


My argument if you want to take it as one is just that he has been and is a great athlete for a very long time, nothing more, nothing less.


How do the italics work for you all??

How do the italics work for you all?? //

I prefer bold.

Of course it is & you should be suspicious, now let me direct you to the REASON Nike will direct you to also, for this level of performance...ready? Rupp has it...Oregon Project has it...Flanagan has it, now Terenzo has it...it ends in this: 4%. Can you figure it out? Don't tell anyone, it's the secret of success.

Once you used "do you see the difference", you made it hard to have a discussion. Turned that back on you and you have gone defensive.

You pointed out that he would beat "you and I'. I clarified that he beat other pros, not just you and I. That is a bit different to beating retired Monty or weekend hacker Stevie.

The relevance of beating the pro women, don't know. That he beat a soft field of people no one has heard off in a sport where there are around maybe 15 20 tops who are relevant. I get your point. Terenzo many years after his peak can dominate because he is that good and triathlon is just not filled with that many really top people.

Much better, thank you. Bold just makes me think you’re yelling.

Of course! It makes perfect sense! So Rupp's 59:47 half this morning is equal to 59:47x2x1.04=2:09 without the shoes, which makes sense since Rupp is a 2:09 guy.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Once you used "do you see the difference", you made it hard to have a discussion. Turned that back on you and you have gone defensive. //

I went back and looked at the thread and I see you jumped in on my reply to someone else, thought you were the guy I was responding to. And my testiness if you could call it that, was because of the veiled insinuation from this other guy that he must have doped to get this result. Since you jumped in on that reply apparently defending that position(I assumed so since you inserted yourself into it right there), I then got a bit snarky with my position, I apologize for the offense to you.


And thank you for acknowledging my real point, sometimes it is frustrating talking to some on here that dig in and never seem to get it, or refuse to acknowledge they get it, arguing for arguing sakes...


How's the font now guys???

This is my least favourite, worse than italics. Looks like a link

You are not the only one that complains, so I'm going to log my complaint here and now about answers and rebuttals. The most annoying thing to me is when someone hits the quote button, and sometimes there is a whole page of quotes to scroll though, and then the next guy does it, and the next, and IT DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!!!

So I just try and cut the appropriate thought and then answer it in a different form to delineate someone else's thought from my response. Because that is my next pet peeve, someone that cuts something and has no gap and just answers. takes a few seconds to figure out it is two different people you are reading..

And lastly, I hate it when threads get derailed!!!! (-; Me so sorry...

If anyone has followed Terenzo's history... he has gone on race streaks like this for years. There was a year where he was almost unbeatable, like Crowie was in 2008-2010.

I think we should look at who he beat this weekend at 70.3 Bariloche (somewhere in Argentina)

2nd Place was Igor Amorelli
3rd Place was Kenneth Peterson??? (never even heard of him)
4th Place was TJ

With this in mind... He didn't race a star field. If he would have raced IMNZ and then went and raced some A list 70.3s... then i would consider this performance suspicious.

This back to back performance wasn't suspicious at all.

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Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching

Fwiw, K. Peterson. Former pro cyclist, if his words are/were to believe he once said ~"I can't run more than 16 miles a week without getting injured" then drops a 1:16... in a 70.3. Peterson is a very strong cyclist and great runner for very little run mileage.

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Also did it on two different continents. So add in a fair amount of travel time between and that is impressive.

I have always enjoyed Terenzo, probably one of the best (and most underrated) 70.3 athletes. Glad to see he hit one of his big Ironman goals in NZ last week.

He actually gave up the 4% for the ELITE version/custom ones. They look funny but work!

Terenzo did this last year after Busso. he is an amazing athlete and has done this for years, agree I don't see him as outlier for suspicion. More he is an outlier genetically and in a sport that is not that deep in the pro ranks, so agree its not a surprise he can show up a week after an IM win and beat some other pros who are not that accomplished at this stage of their career.

Sorry for the mis quote/reply thingy. The under line is terrible, stick with what you were doing it is fine

You think this guy is close to Terenzo’s ability?

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Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching

Simply by talking about it you are not giving him the benefit of any doubts you may have.
You are starting rumours through pure conjecture.

Def not. Just saying he is no slouch and definitely somebody to keep an eye on. Terenzo has been on another level kicking butt at everything from short course (island house) to Ironman.

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Terenzo said in an interview that he was on pace for 7:55 but slowed thinking about the upcoming races. While he hasn't been money in Kona for a variety of reasons (one I think is strength of field) when he is able to do his own race at his pace he's incredible.

I also think that racing like this is crazy if you were doping. It will raise suspicions and ultimately I would think leads to being tested on a more regular basis.

Good job to T, he's awesome when healthy and in my mind at least, a very welcome, incredible addition to my favorite sport in the world!

Brent

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

How do the italics work for you all?? //

I prefer bold.

i like it like this with the quote in italics but keep the new content (which is hopefully worth reading) in normal font so its easy to read. not that there's anything wrong with the normal practice so why reinvent the wheel?

commenting on this as a new standard for quote replies could be one god thing to come out of this thread. otherwise its just Terrenzo is going really well at the moment, as he does every so often. otherwise its just whether your glass is half full or cracked and emptying.

What a sad world we live in or maybe just sad people on this forum when anyone who produces an amazing athletic performance is labelled that it must be due to using PEDs. What would the point be in following any sport if this is the attitude people choose to adopt. There is drug testing protocol in place and unless someone gets caught we have to assume they are clean rather than throw around bullshit accusations based on no factual evidence. Well that's the way I like to see sport and appreciate athletic performance. Try it as it is a far more enjoyable experience.

i think the more interesting question is why he did this and whether it is a good idea. most seem to think that taking some recovery time after an IM would be best. T has a history of having purple patches then falling off so does he do well to make hay while the sun shines or would he be better to take some rest so as to ensure he doesn't burn out? of course we don't know his full situation so its only speculation but it seems like more interesting speculation to me.

i know pro cyclists say you come out of a grand tour and can race very well for a few weeks after that if you manage it right, i'd think an IM would give you much the same "anything else is easy" boost without the same deep fatigue of 3 weeks

If you can get your brain to do that, good on you. It would make sport more enjoyable.

Stay away from the interviews with folks who are very candid. They make that approach much more difficult.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

I remember reading an article about him getting ready for Wildflower years ago when he absolutely obliterated the field. It talked about him ramping up training to 50 hours - crazy stuff. Maybe he's one that is good to get fit, and instead of just keeping hammering on himself, he's better off to race/recover/race/recover/race...

He's a little old school it seems with the big hours approach, and this might be a great way to use the fitness, he knows he can get 3-4 weeks out of it (Look at the Cabo/Island House/Bahrain/IMWA stretch) THEN huge recovery and build again - he seems to be a racer and once he's going - he's ready to go go go. It hasn't worked out in the championship races but he's improving and seemingly staying healthy with it, so why not see where it goes!

As to flying around the world to race - he's a truly global racer, and some people have travel and training down and others get smoked by it. He's experienced for sure with it...that has to help.

Brent

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

He whose name shall not be mentioned

GO BACK TO BOLD AND WHILE YOU ARE AT IT TELL SLOWMAN TO NOT CAPITALIZE


Now, can we go back to the topic at hand. That 2006 race he cranked off at Wildflower was awesome. As for a half likely several percent points lower on effort than a full gas half one week after a full IM, what people on this forum are forgetting is that most of us when we were at our peak could do a sub 4 hour RACE at 96% the weekend after an 8 hour race. Age grouper peanut gallery people here are forgetting that there is a diff between an 8 hour race and a 10, 11, 12, 14 hour race, especially if your running biomechanics are as good at Terrenzo's.

He like all pros and KQ age groupers are not above suspicion and scrutiny, but what he did was not particularly noteworthy if he just did a victory lap appearance paycheque day on week 2.

Dev

I can only assume you are referring to Lance? If so it is no thanks to him that if I talk of Mark Allen or Dave Scott to a cyclist they assume they were both on drugs because of the era and their dominance. As a triathlete I would like to believe they raced clean but hey maybe they weren't caught? Maybe the Germans are so dominant in Ironman now because of the systematic doping by the German doctor equivalent of Dr Ferrari? We can all make up any accusation but we are only tainting our sport based on no credibility.

yes, and more recently sky. Thinking back to the 100 metres at Seoul. For triathlon Mark Allens times stand up for me as they have been matched or beaten by quite a decent margin.

Kona is a bit different as it is a full on race with different dynamics to those who have targeted really fast courses and gone all out for a TT record.

Think Terezone's performance is fine. It's really hard to use the no positive test as a proof of nothing to see.

The guy is a former 70.3 world champion and despite being around for seemingly ever, he is only 33. Terrenzo is actually just coming into his prime.

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Team Zoot 2023

Yeah, his natural vo2 is amazing - he was top 10 in tough new Zealand fields since he was 15 years old.... Totally gifted ... and won several World championships - duathlon, triathlon....no surprise at all

I thought it was common to cherry pick a B race straight after a A race while you're peaking....it's nowhere near as extreme as a tdf win and gold medal back to back

Is he not peaking at a wierd time? Or are you doing some kind of 2 split season, taking it a bit slow now and prepare for Kona.

Looking at his website, he is racing ALOT compared to other triathletes.

Who knows but look at his season having his best ever Kona and then backed it up with a second at Island HouseTriathlon. Ironman NZ is his home race and gets early Kona qualification. Ride his good form and then six months to prepare for Kona as he chooses. Coming from Australia it has always been the way we have to structure our season if you qualify for Kona.

I think he was actually not sure whether he was going to be able to race Ironman New Zealand after being sick around the new year, but he's been trying to win his home country race for over a decade. So peaking now isn't strange at all.

Brent

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Racing alot for a guy like him means almost guranteed paychecks. So it could simply be a financial decision where you bank as much money as you can as an athlete. Might even have sponsor kick backs per podium, etc.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Looking at his website, he is racing ALOT compared to other triathletes. //

Not from my era. I remember several of us would race on a Saturday, get on a plane across country and then get up and do a Sunday race. Of course there were not ironmans, or even 1/2's, but I recall one season when I flew 20 times in a year to races, and drove to a few too!!!

FWIW, I raced in Bariloche yesterday and "regardless" of effort, it was no victory lap for anybody out there. I can tell you without any doubt that this is going to be one of the top 5 toughest IM branded 70.3s on the circuit.

14C water, 5C air temperature with 35km/h freezy winds, raining and the toughest 56 mile bike ride I have ever done in a race.

My power meter didn't work but my friend who qualified for a WC slot held 260W NP for a 2h46 bike split. Look at the top AG times - it was a pretty hardcore race.

Terenzo, Igor and one more pro I didn't recognize pushed the bike really hard, the gap to TJ was visually huge when I crossed them. I think T and Igor came off the bike together and Terenzo outran him like 1.18 vs 1.20. I am not saying Igor is at Terezo's level as an athlete, but he's a very solid guy and most top pros respect him. To beat a rested Igor Amorelli on a tough course 1 week after a sub 8 IM halfway around the world is for sure no "victory lap".

Its a shame this thread wouldn't be half as long as it is if it wasn't for the vailed PED allegation that got thrown in early doors...

Terenzo was doing back to back 70.3s and winning them years before this supposed Girona connection/correlation. He won Junior Worlds two years in a row back in the early 2000s. He has been near the top for a long time, he has just struggled to put it all together in an ironman until recently.

which is especially impressive, since back in your day you also had to walk uphill to school. in the snow! both ways!

seriously though monty: flying from LA to chicago to do Mrs T's is a world apart from flying NZ to Argentina to do a full and a half.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

it is now 2018, would you expect him to slow down and not bounce back as well. Caveat stated that I have no issue with his performance.

A lot of athletes peaked for endurance sports after early 30s....skiing, running, cycling, tri... For swimming it was more exception

He is also working with a new coach.

It's sad that people look at the location he decided to train at rather than the person he decided to train with. He went to Girona 2 years ago because Frodeno was there. Last year he spent minimal time there, again with Frodeno.

It's a popular pro cycling training hub.

Not sure it's true, but a certain team started there as their hub a while ago. Spain had certain reasons other than views, routes, and food to be a pro cycling training hub.

Loads of athletes go to Spain to train, they don't all dope.
Spain has a good climate, cheap accommodation and food, hills, lakes, running trails aplenty.
If the countries NSO organise testing or they are on a Wada whereabouts testing pool then the athletes are regularly tested, wherever they are at.
In saying that, I am just assuming he is in a whereabouts programme pool, I don't actually know.

I will start making the popcorn, seeing him in the lead of 70.3 Campeche :)

Back to back to back!!

Incredible performance!

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What's your CdA?

Well, what is more impressive?

A Winning Kona

or

B Winning much weaker races back to back to back

For me, I would say that winning Kona is much more difficult. Therefore every Kona winner should be more sucpicious than Terenzo.

I think he is no more sucpicious than every other great performance we see.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

You're wrong. Clearly (according to this thread) he is taking drugs.

Hold on now, benefit of the doubt--gotta give it to him. I think it is the Nike Vaporfly 4%.

don't have time to read the whole thread, and I know I took your quote out of context, and I'm more than aware of Terenzo's pedigree, but your quoted statement above is what goes through my head with every win, and I'm not typically pessimistic like that - that statement/question does not go through my head when Brown broke his own IMNZ time a couple of weeks ago. It's all intuition based and that isn't necessarily fair.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

It is a sorry state of affairs when we view 'outstanding' performances with scepticism.

Interesting that Cam Brown's name came up too. Age is clearly not slowing him down.

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Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

I strongly agree. But, it's just the back to back to back nature of it. Brown putting all his eggs in one basket doesn't get the same cognitive appraisal that Jeptoo's performances garnered.... or Lance's. Apologies - I'll leave it at that.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

That's a two week period of peak form.
A better comparison than the average IM AGer would be pro cyclists for the spring classics, the top guys will usually manage 2-3weeks of racing well with a 5hr midweek and a 6-7hr monument on the weekend.

T is doing the volume and has the the right coaching to hit a true peak (not just slightly rested) that he can hold for a couple of weeks then rest and rebuild. Expect to see him do that 2 or 3x per year.

There are lots of grinders on the pro circuit - they do a lot of racing but never peak. For some, not peaking means consistently good results (as in, decent placings), for others it means never being quite there. I can think of very few athletes who do what T does in truly peaking for a target block of races. Obviously it works for him.

I would be suspicious of a 6week block of winning against good fields. But two weeks just shows good planning and preparation (not *that* type of "preparation")

Pros are so fit that amateurs can't fathom it

I remember in the 90s a German pro was doing 1600meter run interval session at a horse race track the day before he won the kiwi ironman..... And the kiwi Pro at the time got up and swam 2km in the pool to warm up the morning of the race.... Normal amateur concepts of limits just don't apply

This is a great point. I remember hearing stories about ITU pros doing hard motorpacing sessions the day before races in Cornerbrook many years ago. And the earlier point about peaking for a two week window in cycling is good as well. With the volume some of these guys, holding for for two weeks is not out of the question at all.

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***

I don't see either of those things to be even slightly unusual, even for an age-grouper. It's common to do a some "opener" intervals the day before a race, and common to warm up for 30 minutes or so on race-day morning.

Sorry, I meant 1600 meter repeats and 2km at 5am in a pool the morning of the ironman, not openers and swim warmup before the start

Something that isn't underlined enough in these discussions: IM PED testing is a joke. Every super human feat being under suspicion should be the norm.

I know. I just don't see anything that unusual about either of those. 2km swim is about 40 minutes at a comfortable pace. Nice warmup, and you have to start warming up around 5AM for a lot of triathlons, particularly Ironmans.

For 1600m repeats the devil is in the details. If they're at 1600m race pace, then I'd be surprised. If they're at Ironman race pace or maybe just a little faster, then it sounds like a perfectly good way to stretch out the legs the day before a race.

Speaking for myself then, didn't realise it was common with pros let alone amateurs, thanks!

In the mean time, did TB stop winning already?

Even more annoying. Go back to bold.