This bothers me, but then I think of a lot of the figure skaters, and curlers etc that aren’t doping and should we really punish them? Ugh...I’m torn on this...

Love that band

we punish the 3 clean members of a 4 member relay team when 1 dopes. yes, it sucks. i don't see any reason why russia would change its behavior unless it becomes an international pariah.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Aren’t you convinced that the IOC, like the UCI or any professional governing body (NBA, NFL), would really not bother with the PED problem?
I am enjoying the Olympics, but take all high level sports with skepticism. Thank you Lance! Kevin!

---

Team Zoot So Cal

Distinction,

Didn’t the IOC ban them and a three panel judges from the CAS overturn that?

Maurice

I agree this hasn’t changed anything from the announcing. It’s like they’re their own team just without the Russian flag.

I equally don’t get how two Americans that have lived here their whole life, are considered the first Nigerian Bobsledders. I have no problem with people competing for their parents country or another country you have citizenship at with. However, this isn’t a home grown bobsled team.

Also FYI:

http://www.cbc.ca/...ics/episode/15517638

Maurice

The Olympic is a scam.. I am not watching

I agree. It's a joke.

I believe that CAS also overturned most of the band the stemmed from the state sponsored doping investigation. Only a small number of athletes had their bans sustained.

---

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

its all just a big ponzi scheme anyways dan - just cash the cheques (metaphorically)......we're all going to die soon anyways

but yes - its fu$ckng stupid

i feel like theire fans in the crowd are revelling in it and being the most boisterous of anyone.
I cant wait for the hockey- I dont even care if we (Canada) win - as long as OAR looses I'm happy.
I'm actually a little let down by ovvie's vocal support of puttin lately as well....for some reason i thought he was better than that? hmmm whatever

It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham. 169 Russian Athletes have been allowed to compete in PyeongChang. That's only 8 fewer than the Russians sent to Vancouver in 2010. (They had 235 athletes at Sochi, but the host nation gets some qualification dispensations and, therefore, typically has larger contingent than they would had they not hosted). The stands at many venues are filled with Russian citizens in Russian colors waving Russian flags cheering for their comrades. What really gets me is that they're still allowing team sports & relays. You ban Russia, but then let their entire hockey team compete under the "OAR" banner? WTF.


What appeared, at first, to be a bold action has turned into something considerably less; little more than a slap on the wrist, in fact.

---

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Exactly! Especially since no one was doping prior to them...

hey - take that cr@p to the comment section of RT

Glad I want the only one who was thinking that when I read the title

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Matt

I don’t really understand why Russia does this in the first place... but I don’t think it’s reasonable to punish clean athletes because of the behavior of their country.

I’d prefer just ‘Olympic Athlete’ but it’s somewhat arbitrary given most are going to be from Russia.

Does anyone think this is anything other than Putin flexing and the CAS/IOC cowering?

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------------------------------------------------------------
Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.

My bigger issue is that it's more about officials than athletes. It's comments games and many officials are doing well but only few athletes.
I think IOC is a Scam and that's an even bigger problem than drugs ( which is obviously very big but it's not about nations is more about athletes as nations and athlete conjunction is way overrated. Iam totally ok if an Russian athlete that is less suspicious than the others are racing.

Totally agree, the whole OAR thing is a total cop-out.

If they had made them compete under the Independent Olympic Athlete designation that already exists(!) it might have had some vague impact, but just renaming the Russian Federation to OAR is completely pointless.

Olympic athletes from Russia. It like saying Russian athletes have the Olympic seal of approval. Total opposite of what it should be. I agree. It should be something like unattached Olympic athletes. UOA.

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Me too. I don't know the total number of athletes who wouldn't be benefiting from PED's but I can't believe it's more than a few dozen.

But any sport that differentiates by: Speed, endurance or strength - sorry, but, those athletes (bye, bye). That leaves only the pure "skill" sports like curlers, ski jumpers,???

and, yeah. I'd be super pissed if I were a speed skater, or XC skier, etc.

---

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

I am betting that Russia bribed the officials enough to allow the OARs in. It would have been too obvious to let Russia in still, so this was the next best thing they could do.

Quite plausible

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Haven't read the full thread, but I was telling my wife my thoughts on it the other day.

I don't have a problem with Russian athletes at the games, however they should be on team "Olympic orphans" not some shadow if Russia.

If they have cleared the whole, never caught doping and thus shouldn't have received a ban, then they should be at the games.

There should be no Russians competing in team events other than Team Olympic Orphans which cannot be comprised of only Russian athletes. Otherwise it is just a turd called another name.

---

Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

More like the whole thing was an attack on Putin's presidency before the March elections.

The whole system is rigged and not worth supporting. Countries taking entire podiums in some sports for years. Doping is rampant across the board - Russia was just sloppy enough and made big enough enemies to be dragged into the sunlight.

The problem is that we have made wars too expensive to fight for most part these days. The countries still want to wage wars since it is good for the economy, so they instead treat major sporting events as geopolitical conflicts.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

I tend to have extreme points of view on most topics, and I agree that it is utterly ridiculous. They shouldn't be there, at all, under any flag or any name.

Trained your whole life? Sorry, you're out. Blame your own country. I don't care if you're in some sport that didn't/wouldn't supposedly dope, you're all under the flag that committed the wrong, you're out. This is a complete farce.

Of course, the way the Olympics is, they would probably still compete. I'm sure one of them has a cousin that once visited a country which would probably qualify them. I'm too old for the U.S. Ski team, but since my wife is Colombian, maybe I'll go compete for them in 2020.

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I talk to myself because mine are the only answers I'll accept - George Carlin

This one also irks me. I get not wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and penalize athletes who have not been caught or under suspicion of doping... That said, you need to penalize the country appropriately because of the systematized approach to defrauding the olympic enterprise... That being said, all they've done is dress the russians, in latvian colors and called them OARs. For sure they should be out of the big team events (allowing a hockey team is a joke in this circumstance...). Individual athletes who are subjected to extensive testing could be allowed, but the idea of OAR is ludicrous... They should be listed as independent. Their country or "team" should not show up in the medal rankings... It should just be their own result (which they achieved in spite of their nations unwillingness to play fair).

The biggest risk of the OAR label, is that it sounds like the olympics are endorsing this (which i get that they are in a way...), and then what do you say when one of the OAR's inevitably gets popped for a failed test during the games...

no. what you're writing is not true. other countries did not - as a national policy - set up a doping scheme as russia did. host countries did not build olympic facilities with secret accesses for passing samples through walls. conflating russia with the "everybody does it" argument is wildly misleading and defeatist.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

2x

Based on the reports, it wasn't sloppy either. It sounds like it got too big and the evidence was so big that IOC couldn't sweep it under the rug. It was systematic, and complex, every athlete was involved whether they liked it or not. If an athlete wasn't performing well, the athlete was failed by the agency to show the agency was doing its job.

No other doping case today had officials unexpectedly die or go into hiding in fear of assassination attempts.

I'm more pissed that events like board-cross, halfpipe, short track, and mogul/aerial skiing have become legitimized as sport, through the gratuitous commercialization of the Olympics.

Give me break -- these are not real sports. I miss the days when REAL winter sport captured our attention as high stakes proxy-war with the Soviet bloc countries.

The crap on TV now is a joke. Is there anything more boring than watching snowboard slalom? (And get the hell off my lawn!)

So 39 Russian Athletes protested their lifetime bans from the Sochi investigation at CAS. CAS completely exonerated 28 of them. No ban from sports, whatsoever, all previous results reinstated. 0 lifetime bans were upheld.

The remaining 11 had their lifetime bans reduced to only a ban from participating in the 2018 Olympics.

https://www.theguardian.com/...-for-sport-athletics

IOC said that they would still try to prevent any of the 28 athletes who had their bans totally overturned by CAS from participating this year by not issuing invitations to them, but it appears that somewhere around 8 of them are actually competing anyway, from what I can tell.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

But 5 versions of ice sledding are ok?

If mogul skiing (not exactly new anymore), and snowboarding of any kind, short track speedskating are not real sports, what are? Do you argue that these sports do not require enough skill? It is not unusual for bobsledders to win Olympic medals just a few months after their introduction to the sport..... How many years of training does it take to win a medal in super pipe? Moguls?

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Your assertions (an organized state program, a national policy, etc) are based on accusations coming more or less from a single person (Dr. Grigory Rodchenkov). Full disclosure - I was born and raised in the USSR. My impression of him - based on what I have seen in the Icarus documentary - was that he is eccentric at best and unhinged/nuts at worst. This is based on the cultural cues that are completely imperceptible to the non-Russians. I can enumerate them if you wish. My gut tells me that this is a person likely to embellish and do things to attract attention.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

I can’t find any sports that have been removed... so unless I’m missing something all his “real sports” are still there. So it sounds like he just doesn’t know how to use a TV to watch what he wants.

that's pretty interesting. what you're saying is that the entire mclaren report is based on a fraud, and that both rodchenkov (who putin loved before he hated) and the stepanovs (if that's the proper convention for a couple) are all lying.

i find it more credible to trust the mclaren investigators than to dismiss them, but, i wasn't there! i also find, based on the totality of russia's state behavior, the likelihood of the charges very credible, and the state's denial very much not credible.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

My wife is getting sick of me complaining about this exact thing. I find myself cheering for anyone to beat the OAR athlete. Here I am screaming at the TV calling some poor curler or ice skater a druggie and a cheat.

Even if the doctor and the athletes that broke the story are all "eccentric", it's hard to believe that they chose to declare to the world that they were part of an Olympic sports cheating plan in which they were doped or administered drugs to athletes essentially against their will at the direction of the Russian Government when it was not true. They want to make themselves assignation targets of Vladimir Putin in exchange for.... Losing their careers, homes and families?

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-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

x 2

And just this morning I read that the 'OAR' Luge athletes are upset that they seem to be picked on by the other teams !

It always seems to be 'its not our fault' it is the rest of the World against us.

db

You'd prefer ice dancing?

x 1 million

it seems so obvious

You should have seen the comments I got when I posted a comment on Yulia Efimova's instagram(famous russian swimmer in case you dont know). Her post was something about being sad about Russia being excluded from the games. My comment centered around the doping officials that died under mysterious circumstances and how their families were probably even sadder. The comment never got deleted either but I got a bunch of Russian bitches telling me to fuck off hahahhaha.

FIFY

"whom Putin loved...". "Whom." Can we at least get the important things right?

(Is it pink for sarcasm? I've been away a long time. I don't recall.)

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Michael

I would be interested to learn from you if you're willing to share more.

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

All of this - typical backroom corruption at international backslapping organizations.

Additionally - why has the world not pulled the freaking World Cup from them!? Russia cheats their way through one major international event and then gets to host the most lucrative one there is?

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978

I thought the idea was that athletes who could demonstrate that they were consistently training or competing in a trusted testing pool we're allowed in, and the PAR was the compromise to get them there.
if I have a Russian passport but am, say, on a scholarship in t the USA and do all my training, competing, and testing there, why should i be considered dirtier than any other us-based athlete?

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Far too much Russia hating going on in the world at the moment.

Drugs in sport a problem in every country - it is a problem for world sport.

...every drug cheat should be heavily penalised, but banning clean athletes as collateral damage of banning whole countries is a disaster.

Just imagine yourself being a clean athlete who trained all his life to reach this peak and to qualify for the Olympics - only to be told weeks before the event he/she dreamed of for 20 years that you can't compete due to some arbitary ban on all athletes from your country driven by the wrongdoing of some faceless officials/trainers. It would be devastating for the individual - such approach cannot be supported by any rational person.

I think you answered that with your first sentence.

FIFA are much worse than the IOC in that regard and the whole situation around the 2018 and 2022 WCs was a complete farce from start-to-finish.

So somehow this crazy person got a key position in the Russian "anti" doping organisation. Then he somehow single handed contaminated the A and B steals by almost cracking the anti-doping security bottles. He builds a pile of evidence to do what? To forever loose his family and have to live in fear for the res of his live?

I'm curious about your psychological assessment, please enumerate cultural cues we've all failed to pick up.

And I'm sure RT (Russia Television), is reporting this stuff in a balanced way.

---

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

OAR. It stands for Olympic Athlete from Russia. Why isn't it OAFR?

fine. but then don't reward russia for that. they're WORLD athletes. there are two options that could possibly satisfy my sense of right in this. one: ban them all. two: allow the undeniably clean, but call them athletes of the world or some such thing.

the IOC and NBC chose neither.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

As other people said I'm interested in your cultural cues.

As someone from the USSR do you believe there was an organized state doping program? Do you think other countries have organized state doping programs? I'm really curious as I try to look at all sides of the argument and interested in all perspectives. From what I have seen the proof is there after multiple investigations. As an American, we were raised to never trust anything Russian government related (I'm sure you were raised the same). I think that has subsided quite a bit, but seems to be reigniting with Putin in office.

this letting russia basically get a pass for the most blatant, systematic state sponsored doping, perhaps exceeding even east german doping of the 1980s, has lessened my interest in the 2018 games. if i was korea i'd be pretty pissed at this. as a non-russian, anybody-but-a-russian, i'm pissed at this.

But Russia has a lot of money so the IOC's hands are tied...

I would love for them to be competing as the "Cheating Russian Bastards" team. That way, we are reminded that while the athlete may not have been caught cheating, their country's Olympic committee was.

---

Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour

I don't know - what's the consistent test you could apply for that? there have been a while whole lot of dirty American track and field athletes over the years - should we consider Shaun white to be a member of the 'cheating American bastards' team?

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I would apply the "did your federation design a building with specific design features to carry out a doping scheme" test.

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Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour

It wasn't USATF that created the american system, it was Nike...

Lol,

I think he’s just trolling a bit.

Clearly he should be able to differentiate between individual action, systemic intervention.

Maurice

I hope that's the case, but I have my doubts. There are many comments on this thread from others that show people are not able to differentiate between accute and systemic cheating.

---

Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour

I wasn't aware of what the deal with OAR was... I just wondered why Russia was competing with the Olympic flag... I think I sort of get it from reading between the lines here.

It is messed up but I think sports are just dirty in general... I tend to be a skeptic for anything sports related today.

mOAR triggerd over some chicks from Houston being allowed to compete as Nigerians!

Hell, half the Canukistani womens hockey team all go to school and play for USA teams!?

To my mind if you want to be a Nigerian sledder that's totally cool--go live in Nigeria

If you want to be a Canuck hockey chick--cool; go do so in Canada

even worser in the summer games when everyone is on the Oregon Track team but competes for different countries. Total BS

Now get off my lawn!

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Steve

Again, as I'm sure you're aware, there's already a designation for this, the Independent Olympic Athletes.

Furthermore, there's precendent for this designation being used for athletes from countries who cannot, or will not, get their federation in order prior to a Games, namely India in 2014.

The fact that the IOC created an entirely new and dedicated team for the OARs and then populated it with basically everyone Russian that wanted to be there just goes to show how little respect the IOC had for their own sanctions.

Two words, come to mind: lip-service.

but Steve you've got the best lawn around (in the world?) [if you know what I'm saying]

---

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

I find the term “Canukistani” offensive and pathetic. I wonder if you realize that Canadians have fought wars with the U.S. since WWI? My grandfather served in the Canadian Army during WWII.

I also think saying that the Nigerian Bobsled team must compete under the American Flag or else move back to Nigeria is flawed thinking at best.

The Olympics are supposed to be about bringing people together. You clearly don’t understand that among many other things you don’t get.

oh really. Why i had no idea of Canada's military history. No idea at all! Very surprising.

---

Steve

I agree that perhaps we should end the nationalistic part of the Olympics and just celebrate great athletes. The "medal count" has always seemed silly to me (sorry, Norway, you guys are all kinds of awesome)

those attacking Vikings are all over it

and it's getting to the point if someone in orange and blue speed skating kit comes to the line im saying just give them the medal. After all they skate to work on those canals so it's totally normal

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Steve

Having knowledge versus having respect and class are mutually exclusive.

Gotcha ;-0

i will be sure to consult with you on how to comport myself in the future

---

Steve

Remember the dieselgate? No other company complained because they're all basically doing the same. The moment one cheats the rest will know because they're spying on them, and short afterwards they'll complain or cheat accordingly.

Well with the Olympics is basically the same but worse because on top of everything it's mainly politics.

As a Spaniard I know we cheated in (at least) Barcelona'92 with governamental funding. I'm not ok with that. And I'm pretty sure other countries do the same on a regular basis, and I'm no ok with that either. So let's bring down Russia, fine, but maybe demand also some action at home. Because if not it seems we're not been fair.

However IMHO the Olympics is the worst place to take action against dopers because first and most important the Olympics is a political event. Please bear in mind that its corruption (doping is also a form of corruption) starts even before the city has been designated!!!

My only advice would be: ignore the Olympics. Do not talk about it, do not support it, do not bother with it.

I agree it's BS that countries import people to better chance their wins. For instance, pairs figure skating "Germany" won gold but thanks to a Ukrainian and Frenchman.

If you move and become a naturalized citizen of a foreign country then you have every right to compete for said country. It’s almost always a permanent life changing relocation.

The Frenchman JUST got his citizenship. Maybe if he resided in Germany for at least 20 years. But this is just one example

I would say that after re-watching Icarus 4 things really jumped out.

1. Rodchenkov agreeing to help Fogel in his harebrained experiment. That's the part I find hardest to believe. He is taking a 'uge risk here, and for what? It's not like Coppolla or Nolan asked him to help them prove that doping can be done without being caught.
2. Rodchenkov travelling to LA to collect urine samples. I have no idea how he would swing it. It is really hard for Russians to get a travel visa at the moment, and the dude just pops in and out. Bizarre.
3. Rodchenkov just flying out of Moscow after Fogel buys him a ticket - on an Aeroflot flight no less!!!! With all the heat coming from the state surveillance, he just takes off from Sheremetyevo - with nary a problem outside of the dramatized tarmac video. I mean - look, the dude is the key to the puzzle, the key witness to a world shattering scandal... and he is allowed to leave? Dafuq?

OK, a bonus doubt. He admits to having been sent to a psychiatric ward. For a Russian male, that's a huge taboo. More people would admit to having AIDS, etc than that. And for him to be put in a position of a massive importance after having spent time in "psyhushka"? That just does not happen. Not without something earth shattering taking place to save his ass and advance his career at the same time..

There are some other odd bits.

For example, in the initial Skype convo with Fogel, Rodchenkov's wife fawns over his dog in Russian. But when Rodchenkov's get let go from the lab, she briefly speaks to Fogel on skype and there she speaks a decent English. Any Russian fluent in English would show it off immediately - and there is a zero chance she would have made herself look like a bumpkin in the inital skype convo.

Then there is his sister. She is a decorated runner, and by all accounts was the anabolic connection that he mentioned in the bit about cutting over the Portugalov's team over from the Chinese supply of steroids to his hookup. That in itself could carry a 10-15 drug trafficking charge, Yet she gets off without any trouble, but her bro gets to do time in a psychiatric ward. This is such a strange story.

I really don't know what to make of this. I went for a long run today, and had tried to fit so many different tinfoil theories. Nothing makes sense. The dude seems to be a rotten, corrupt machine cog, doing his job to enable this massive conspiracy to dope. But then he has a mind change, and boom - fesses up.

The only explanation I have is that he is a part of some sort of a plot meant to unseat Mutko by his rival FSBers. I dunno. The whole thing stinks, and makes no sense.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

ok, just had my first chance to sit down to some Olympics. I am watching the womens XC relay. this is some #$@#$@#%% stuff. Russia, Russia, Russia. there is no penalty. there is no suspension. to the barely aware viewer (me), I have no idea about the Russian "ban".

pathetic

fyi, film was made prior to trump taking the high chair, when from there on a bigger microscope came over the russians

What is your point?

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Just saw this thread. My wife and I were complaining to each other about this (Hey, we actually agreed with each other on something....it generally takes someone like Vlad Putin for us to agree on something without taking sides...).

I would have preferred to see, "Independent Athletes"

you are stating his difficulty to get a visa, fly a russian airline here, etc ,etc. perhaps there are more to the details than explained in the movie. he could have flown aeroflot to nearby country and then used a cross ocean flight to get here, prior to trump tourist visas werent too difficult to obtain.

Just to clarify, why do you find the suffix -stani offensive?

Serious question. Is there something bad about countries that end in 'stan' such that "stani" is offensive...I don't have a dog in this fight being from Canada and served in the Royal Canadian Air Force for 13 years including during Gulf War1 (fortunately, only my software flew out of the Canadian forward operating base in Doha Qatar, I did not have to deploy).

I kind of find it offensive that you're using your grandfather's service to talk down countries than end in "stan"...lots of high class Canadians came from those countries, so let's play cool if you want people to respect our country, then play good with others.

The tourist visas were a bitch to get during the late Obama years, at least for the Russians. Part of it was in retaliation for the Crimea annexation.

If he was truly under the state surveillance he would have been likely disallowed to travel outside of the country. They would have simply started some sort of an administrative investigation and had him sign a paper agreeing not to travel. They did it with Navalny and a few others.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

It’s anLR thing referring to our country relative to our neighbors to the south as so far left to be kinda communist.

The way it’s used is usually pretty funny and light hearted.

I’ve never taken offence.

Cheers,
Maurice

Some theories on this:

>1. Rodchenkov agreeing to help Fogel in his harebrained experiment. That's the part I find hardest to believe. He is taking a 'uge risk here, and for what? It's not like Coppolla or Nolan asked him to help them prove that doping can be done without being caught.

The doping scandal theme isn't yet revealed, why not "help" and befriend a random American dude, thus making a random connection in the U.S., should he need to use it?

>2. Rodchenkov travelling to LA to collect urine samples. I have no idea how he would swing it. It is really hard for Russians to get a travel visa at the moment, and the dude just pops in and out. Bizarre.
He could have already had a valid visa? He could have given some of his connections a crate of bottles to get one? He could have been owed a favor? Also, the visa thing is quite odd sometimes - I see people randomly being able to get one without issues on occasion.

3. Rodchenkov just flying out of Moscow after Fogel buys him a ticket - on an Aeroflot flight no less!!!! With all the heat coming from the state surveillance, he just takes off from Sheremetyevo - with nary a problem outside of the dramatized tarmac video. I mean - look, the dude is the key to the puzzle, the key witness to a world shattering scandal... and he is allowed to leave? Dafuq?
> Yeah, weird, but maybe he just wasn't considered as important at the moment as the movie makes him out to be? (maybe Mutko didn't actually think he'll sell them out?).

OK, a bonus doubt. He admits to having been sent to a psychiatric ward. For a Russian male, that's a huge taboo. More people would admit to having AIDS, etc than that. And for him to be put in a position of a massive importance after having spent time in "psyhushka"? That just does not happen. Not without something earth shattering taking place to save his ass and advance his career at the same time..
> Sure, but you've seen the movie, you've seen him. I took this as if he were treated as a mad scientist who'd be grateful for a chance to live a 'normal' life again - they wanted to squeeze what they needed from him, but didn't quite think he had it enough in him to be revolting and exposing.

There are some other odd bits.

>Any Russian fluent in English would show it off immediately
Confused by what caused this comment, but either way, that is false:) The skype exchanges look pretty normal to me.

>The only explanation I have is that he is a part of some sort of a plot meant to unseat Mutko by his rival FSBers. I dunno. The whole thing stinks, and makes no sense.
Could be.

My point in responding is I admit the movie documents some weird scenes and stories, but having knowledge of what's going, how could it not be weird?

It’s Canada, not Canukistani. The term Canukistani is a reference to Afghanistan in a derogatory way. Think bombed out hell hole for terrorists. I’ve heard a lot of Americans refer to places they think of as sh*t holes with the suffix ‘stan’. This is the first time I’ve heard Canada talked about this way though. He wasn’t using this term as a complement. It went right over your head.

how is the OAR allowed to have a nordic relay. imagine if the US govt had a state sponsored, from the white house down, doping program for track & field sprinters, passing samples through a wall, only to be allowed to have a 4x100m relay in the very next olympics, the team called the olympic athletes from the USA.

i can only assume the russians have dirt on more than just politicians.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

The only thing more disgraceful than the Russians is the IOC for letting this happen. I was really hoping the United States would come back to beat Russia in hockey. I want to see Russia lose and lose big. They shouldn’t even be in Pyeongchang.

and NBC for treating russia as if it's a fully vested participant in the olympics.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

First of all, I've been around ST for 18 years....lots of Americans on here joke around about Canada as Canuckistan. It's no big deal

Here are some images from countries ending in "stan"



Kyrgystan above.



Almaty, in Khazakstan



Sample of the route on the karakoram highway in Pakistan



Samarkhand Uzbekistan



Sadayeen Mtn, Afghanistan

I'm not seeing too much "shit hole" in these images, although ignorant people including yourself "in this instance" (I'll assume you're otherwise more knowledgeable about the world), may want to use the suffix in a negative connotation.

Just cause some bad things happen in a country does not make the entire place a shit hole. We have our share of shit hole spots here in Canada too, so better to not call out other countries generically.

I am surprised that there are any teams allowed, be it figure skating, nordic skiing, ice hockey etc etc. There should just be Olympic Independent athletes racing in individual sports. If a country is banned, there is no way they should be able to field a team sport.

I'm watching the women's nordic 10K relay on good old-fashioned over-the-air broadcast TV, so I get what NBC gives. This is a travesty that so much coverage is going to a sport where blood doping would give such a clear advantage. And of course, OAR are leading so far.

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DFL > DNF > DNS

i was just looking at gravel roads in kyrgystan and happened on this site, which i think is made of gold for you and me. assuming you're going to get into gravel biking which i assume you will.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I simply would appreciate if countries would be referred to by their real names, not by slang terms that I have seen used in a negative context (the reference being to Afghanistan, not other countries with ‘stan’ in their name).

He is clearly anti-immigration in terms of athletes. It’s xenophobic. If you want to support that type of thinking that’s on you.

It’s pretty straightforward no matter how much you try to twist it to fit your agenda.

Aaaaand an OAR has failed a doping test... who could've seen that one coming?!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/...er-olympics/43103451

You have to laugh really, because the IOC are like a slapstick comedy...

but, "The Olympic anthem will be played at any medal ceremonies they are involved in with no Russian flag or anthem." that'll show 'em.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I am not even an American, but this morning I am really irked that they are showing OAR in the medal tally ahead of the USA. I'd be livid if I was an American and I'm only an L1 Visa holder (OK now expired). They may as well retitle the group, ADBP = Athletes Doped By Putin!!!

Dev

They just wiped the floor with you in ice hockey. I don't blame you for starting this thread.

Ouch

https://www.nytimes.com/...r-krushelnytsky.html

USA hockey is a bunch of college kids (not entirely, but)... Against the top Russians...

Miracle on ice can't happen very often (like 1980), or, it wouldn't be a miracle.

Oh well.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

but again, dev, the whole point is that there was a group of athletes for whom it was argued that by dint of training and competing outside of russia and being part of trusted testing pools, they should be allowed to compete under a neutral banner. i live and train in switzerland, on a canadian passport. if i qualified for worlds today, and it emerged tomorrow that trican had a thorough and sophisticated doping program, should i be banned from worlds? should all athletes with canadian passports? or foreigners who train in canada? how do you decide?

it violates the 'innocent until proven guilty' scenario and sets up a precedent that we ought to beware. there's plenty of smoke around salazar - should all his athletes be banned? or all american runners? what about victor conte? and ma junren?

how do you make a consistent, fair rule to be applied to all, here?

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

yeah. kinda bad timing on that post. having said that, i'll be interested to know what drugs curlers take. LSD?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

This guy had a positive test for Meldonium. Could be to combat an irregular heartbeat or alcohol
Intoxication. My money is on the latter.

Wow, just wow! Curlers doping...are the ice dancers on the juice too?

I don't disagree entirely with your premise but are you saying that ALL of these Nordic skiers/biathletes train/compete outside of Russia and are in a trusted testing pool?

In a sport with a checkered history of PED use and most likely where EPO would be most helpful, I find that hard to believe. Nearly every Nordic event I've seen has a Russian in the lead group.

I'd say any athletes finishing just off any podium that contains OAR consider yourself a medalist and be prepared to accept a medal in the future.

It's really a joke. I would say the same thing if it were any other country under the same circumstances.

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Formerly DrD

And another:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...er-olympics/43168312

Edited to add: love this summary from race walker Tom Bosworth

https://www.theguardian.com/...ls-olympic-drug-test

Ahah.

Absolutely psychedelics are peds in sports like curling! And I have a sneaking suspicion the same ones used that are prevelant in our mid & high level German table-tennis & dart leagues. Cannabis dominates, but I think you’d be very surprised the number of athletes micro-dosing lsd & psilocybin. Although I’m hearing more & more 4-aco-DM talk this year. Guess it’s become relatively more cost effective now China is producing it by the ton & the potential value as it makes dosing easier if you are familiar with volumetric dosing.

CC

Here in Canada, we are waiting for Alex Harvey's FEDEX medal ceremony after he did a great sprint to slip in for 4th in the 50K with 2 Russians in the silver and bronze. But there is no use crying over spilt milk. Alex was the reigning 50K world champion, and has one of the best finishing sprints in the field. He is like a Sagan of XC skiing, able to compete in every distance from the final 100m sprint finish to 50K.

Alex made the calculation that when Ristanen went early, he would blow up and the medal group would be with the Norwegians. He was wrong, as the Fin built a 2 minute lead. Sundby and Harvey were playing poker with each other while the Fin and Russian went ahead and continued to play poker with each other while a Russian used them to squirt away for bronze.

The racing on the snow (doped or undoped) was phenomenal if you understand the sport. The Finnish pit crew pulled off the ultimate coup rewaxing Ristanenen's skis as the conditions changed. The Russian chose to not go for the ski change, and opened up a 100m lead at the 8K to go exchange, but the better gripping and gliding skis that team Finland prepped for their man was the different.

You could see both Harvey's and Sundy's skis slipping on the last steep uphill. They lost the bronze medal there with the Russian was not. I have no clue if the bronze winning Russian did a ski change with 8K to go or not, but he was visibly "not slipping" on the uphills. Was he doped? I have no clue, but his skis were damn better for the final climb. Visually, the difference was not doping, it was a guy on better skis.