Haycraft, I'm not sure if I'm more upset that you applied for EMJ or got rejected........

I feel like there is a strong disconnect between what a triathlon "team" SAYS they want from an athlete and what they ACTUALLY want from said prospective athlete. I have two cases in point for my argument:

A little about me first: I raced as a BOP pro from 2012-2014. A few top 15s at Rev3 races (hoorayyyy...not) and a few sub 4:10 non wetsuit half ironman races. Lots of local/regional wins, but could never really hack my way into the top 8% in a $5000+ purse race so failed to requalify for my elite card. One could make the argument that I didn't deserve to race pro if I couldn't hit the requal standard, and I'd agree with you. I competed in XTERRA for a couple of years primarily after that, winning top 3 AG awards and qualifying for Maui, where my only distinction was being the fastest M30-34 swimmer in the field in 2016. This year I raced Santa Rosa 70.3, Deuceman Half, and Choo WC 70.3. None of the performances were standout, with the possible exception being 3rd AG at Santa Rosa after getting myself into casually good fitness over the winter.

I am active on ST (obviously), I have a relatively active social media presence, and a blog.

I was rejected from the EMJ team a couple of weeks ago. This time last year I was also rejected from the TriSports Elite team.

Am I butthurt about that? Well, yes and no. I make fun of EMJ guys all the time (not to their faces, but in a good natured way) and TriSports has had the ugliest uniforms known to man (with the exception of the USPRO Tri team's kits...woof), so I'm not sad to have to not make fun of myself for 2018. But it feels like a slight. I am pretty fast when I want to be. I have a social media presence. I'm active on ST (as much as it may annoy some of you). There are people on both of those teams that I could handily beat in sprints/oly's/half and out-social media (whatever the F that means) and yet...they do lots of IM branded events. No XTERRAs, very few local races.

So effectively, these teams are only contributing to the demise of local and regional racing at <70.3 distances because they clearly bias their membership towards Ironman focused athletes.

So my question to EMJ is: what do you actually WANT in your team members? You apparently mostly want people who awkwardly post about your various male products when they don't really post anything else, so it looks funny and out of place. You clearly want people who basically only do Ironman races (which I get, because that gives you the most exposure), but this is to the detriment of each athlete's local community.

Anyway, I should probably have posted this in the cry like a biatch thread. Let's commiserate on our rejection.

Haha oh man Bryan...you crack me up dude. You are one to talk.

Why did you apply for a team that you make fun of? What reason did they give you for rejection? Perhaps it has something to do with crank length on your velotron.

Quit worrying about joining a team and just go crush races like you used too.

I think, in the end, it was mostly about wanting to feel important.

Now, the fact that I consider making the EMJ team to be a factor in "self importance" was probably the first signal that something was massively, massively wrong.

Just trying to hit you with some brutal honesty here. You are what I would describe as an outspoken personality. Some people love it, some people hate it (they most likely take you the wrong way IMO). I'd take a guess that Team EMJ is going for the super nice guy image ("every man").

Funniest part in all of this, it wasn't til like 2 months ago talking to Bryan that I even knew what EMJ products were. I had no clue it was shaving products (had never heard of it as shaving product either). I just thought it was a play on words for a team name (kinda the john doe type of reference), as it's been an team for what last 2-3 years? Steve Mantell was 1st guy I knew/recognized from the team. I think you have to stay as an AG'er also (I know Mantell earned his elite card and took it at some point while either with EMJ or left after)?

TriSports has had the ugliest uniforms known to man (with the exception of the USPRO Tri team's kits...woof)

There are many mixed gender "Elite" teams, and I suppose the Smash/Dimond and top-level Betty athletes would be your female counterparts.

So in a sense, being rejected from a team (in my mind) is like being rejected from a community.

I hate you.


(not sarcasm).

I am beyond butt hurt, I was on both teams over the years. That makes me officially the ugliest pro in triathlon...

jkhayc wrote:

Here's another thought:

Where are the women's elite amateur teams? Am I just not aware of them or do they not exist?

This is actually very pointed...I thought it would be super fun to start a triathlon team called "Team Me." This team would consist of rejects only. It would be entirely about self promotion.

Who's in?!



Also: currently searching for title sponsor. Gofundme to follow.

After the fantastic team experiences you had back in Charlotte this is honestly something I never thought I would read on here with your name attached to it. By applying to an elite team were you hoping to get into a group of people who could keep up with you on your workouts or just people to train with? I'm sure there are many folks around you of the later type and, if that's your main goal, then go do group workouts with them. You don't need a team to get a shared sense of community or feel important.

"the james and campbell rebel team sponsored power crank"

how dare you! the one person i want to mute on ST...

For EMJ, I guess jackass. EMJ= Every Man Jackass, right. :) There you go. So are you one? :)

I wanted to throw my 2c into this topic. I know a lot about rejection and the emotions that come along with it. It took me five years to get accepted to medical school. Each year, the rejection emails would roll in and they got harder and harder to read. Over those years, even though I was dealing with this major stress and doubt about if I was doing the right thing, I had some of the most formative experiences of my life. In retrospect, I'm so grateful for that time because I needed that time to improve myself.

tl;dr: If you want something, keep working. illegitimi non carborundum

But how do people know how good you are?!

I applied for a team this year too. I hope I get rejected ;) this whole AG team thing sounds like a bunch of douchebaggery and 10% discounts.

But how do people know how good you are?!

"Teams" that are basically "ambassador/affiliate" programs are definitely a waste of time though. In my opinion. Like, why would I pay to be "sponsored?" That's one of the biggest money pits I think I've ever heard of in triathlon, and that's saying something. EMJ is definitely NOT that, for sure.

Just to be clear, there is a large local tri team right here in Florida that easily has the lock on the "ugliest uniforms known to man." I know and like a lot of the team members, but could never join because I would lose all motivation to race rather than be seen in it.

Yea the rational part of me is like "AG Teams are a waste of time." But another side of me is like "I wanna be on a team and experience group motivation and the only way to do that is on a team!" Obviously, there's somewhere in the middle where I think my "happy place" is, haha.

"Teams" that are basically "ambassador/affiliate" programs are definitely a waste of time though. In my opinion. Like, why would I pay to be "sponsored?" That's one of the biggest money pits I think I've ever heard of in triathlon, and that's saying something. EMJ is definitely NOT that, for sure.

I joined team "IDGAF" years ago.

I race wherever I want.
I use whatever equipment I want.
My team kit doesn't have any name, logos, or sponsors.
I don't have to be a social media narcissist posting non-stop selfies and 15 hashtags.
I don't have to have a presence anywhere.

Everyone is welcome on Team IDGAF. You don't even have to apply.

You may want to pick OP for a reply. I never applied to any team so your response to my post maybe missed by OP.
I have no horse in the race. I only joked to lighten up the atmosphere.
I could care less.

I'm really surprised by how salty some of the posts are in regards to EMJ. I too was rejected from the team but it was done so graciously and with good reason. The fact is that the team is stacked and is working to broaden their member base across the US (not just SF/Bay Area).

At the end of the day athletes on the EMJ team are fantastic ambassadors for triathlon and help bring a sense of team camaraderie to the sport. And so what if they are also representing a brand ? After all -- there is no such thing as a free lunch.

I understand being frustrated about not making the team (I am in the same situation) but I think it would be good to reassess what you can bring to the team and why you wanted to join in the first place.

Here's one - it is a lot smaller than EMJ. I'm not sure how much bigger Liz wants to make it, but they are very visible around the Boulder area and this year they have an expanded group of athletes outside the area - Not sure if they are part of the "team" or an ambassador type program. Edit - the non-local athletes are part of something called "Project Feisty".


http://vixxenracing.com/

haha, now you've summoned him. i expect he'll be here shortly!

And ultimately, that is the best advice and what EVERYone should be doing. Not worrying about "acceptance" or lack there of, and just go out and run shit.

I'm really surprised by how salty some of the posts are in regards to EMJ. I too was rejected from the team but it was done so graciously and with good reason. The fact is that the team is stacked and is working to broaden their member base across the US (not just SF/Bay Area).

At the end of the day athletes on the EMJ team are fantastic ambassadors for triathlon and help bring a sense of team camaraderie to the sport. And so what if they are also representing a brand ? After all -- there is no such thing as a free lunch.

I understand being frustrated about not making the team (I am in the same situation) but I think it would be good to reassess what you can bring to the team and why you wanted to join in the first place.

They're on Team GAF obviously.

I'm just waiting till someone says they are sexist since they don't allow women on the team.

Are you talking about EMJ? All they need to do is establish the women's side of the club - Every Man Jane.

Too bad it's not a running race. But if it was those guys would probably still beat you.

the rather embarrassing (to me) social media requirement - example ‘ just back from a great ride wearing my x clothing and ready for a sure in my x shower gel ‘

I thought it was already established that EMJ was triathlon's version of Cobra Kai? You don't want to be on that team. :D

I don't think that being part of a team or club and being able to express your individuality are mutually exclusive.. Yes, triathlon is a very individual sport, but always training and racing alone, with no 'community' is, well, boring. Why do you think something like zwift has taken off? yes, I'm in my garage all alone, but it gives me the sense of training and racing 'with' others and makes it more enjoyable.

yes, there is a marketing component of teams, but how does that instantly label them as a shill? I don't blame Dan for the flashing ads on every page of this site, just like I don't blame teams for their kits or social media posts. It's a two-way street, and both sides get some benefit from the relationship.

I do have my bias, as a former club president and current Wattie Ink team member, but in both instances, I've never experienced any type of exclusion that you believe teams encourage. Recently, I went out to IMAZ to cheer and support the racers, all racers. If you were racing, tell me how divided you would have felt running through the Wattie Ink / Moxie cheer section. We/they were out there motivating and supporting all racers. Same for the BSR crew that I saw, and many other teams.

Teams and clubs aren't for everyone, but to suggest that teams don't have any functional value in our sport isn't fair or accurate.

.... in high school, I had a foot in the...New Order/Depeche Mode/U2 new wave gang ....

We could start Team Tucson.

3 group swims per week, couple of rides/runs per week.
With the number of athletes we both know in the area we could get 5-7 guys capable of going <4:25 and quite a few <4:10, plus the women's side would be stacked. I mean let's face it your fiance doesn't mind being on the same team as you!

Always knew I liked you for a reason.

In any case back to the topic on team rejection....we already have the global triathlon club...why do we need anything else. By the way, I do see the function of local clubs to help create a training environment for new racers, just like we have swim clubs, ski clubs, bike clubs. At a local level, these make sense to get athletes functionally and technically competent at the sport. I've tried to do that with free group training for people without the artificial divide that a club can put up at my local level. At a learning level, the clubs have value. At an elite/cross city level, they are just exclusivity orgs.

I see no point of national scale "teams" who are only out for bragging rights, exclusivity and some source of questionable marketing (I'd rather see pros get the marketing coverage since they need the exposure). National elite-ish age group outfits water down the pro side of the sport.

I don't really like the marketing teams for our sport for ME and while I've done that stuff and enjoyed it while it made sense for me.... I stay away from that hooplah as it distracts me from my core goals/values right now. I think I could get on any team...probably even this all men's team if I wanted it enough and started my pre-application efforts at least a year in advance. Although after this post that is likely not going to be true anymore!

The competition to get on these teams is STIFF. It is like applying for a job....just because you did not get selected does not mean you were not in consideration. The job is to be a marketing tool. Unless you do some serious damage control starting now, you aren't getting picked next year either though with this post out there.
Winning your AG at Ironman brand races puts you at the top of the pile BUT...you likely don't HAVE to do that to be selected as their tool.

I think you also have a better chance to get on their team if you are already on another team so they can steal you away.
Easier to get a job when you already have one...so maybe join one of the groups where everyone gets on the "elite" team if they pay enough dues to set you up better for next year. Hash tag and market the heck out of your team. Don't sip the kool-aid. Chug it. Spike it and serve it up!

On social, you seem like you have a niche group of people that you consider your audience and it is the Slowtwitch type crowd and those who pretend to mock ST while checking it every day (no offense, I love you guys). I don't know that most folks newer to the sport (fresh blood for marketing) would feel you were "approachable" even though you ARE a genuine, intelligent, nice guy who just wants to share your knowledge. Sometimes, frequent ST posters like yourself who are not shy about expressing opinions and do not have a vanilla feel good message are intimidating to regular folks. EMJ likes to give the illusion of being "regular folks" with speed. Regular folks don't blog about running streaks every day or ruthlessly critique bike fits.

Teams that you mentioned are marketing vehicles and being a brand ambassador is to be their tool.

To what extent are you willing and able to be a tool?

Maybe not enough. If you don't have a strong desire in being a tool that becomes clear to those seeking such for their organizations.

Not everyone on that team does Ironman but you have to have another angle...which you do. If you are a human billboard you actually are in the real estate where they target. Issue I see though is that you just aren't a blank slate type personality on social. Reflect upon this: Who wants to buy a billboard that already has writing all over it? You need to be more of a frame where they can drop in and fit their message.

Looking at EMJ and the select few I know of on there reading between the lines of what they SAY it seems they want people who win races/place high and are fast BUT who don't give off the vibe of being consumed by the sport and who present close ties to their family and careers.

It seems painting a picture to your strong social media following of being a family oriented person with an extremely well balanced lifestyle who barely trains (while actually training like it is another full time job behind the curtain in order to meet the podiums/achievements required) AND has no body or facial hair is what it takes. You could fit into that mold if you want.

They are seen as non-confrontational, easy going, career and family guys who work hard (but not THAT hard) to win/place at races. Not sure I would call you confrontational but you do speak openly against the status quo which I don't see their team members doing. You also might want a clean shaven FB profile picture and maybe find some kids....like nephews or cousins to get more family type feed added to your insta stories.

The team members are also really good at sales. Say hypothetically that an athlete attends a winter tri camp in Tuscon and is trying to find a new aero bottle when theirs flew off and cracked. EMJ is the smooth guy who would follow them all around the store convincing them to buy their sponsor's products not even mentioning their relationship to it as they show off photos of their daughter. "Hypothetically." I don't picture you doing that but you could. You would likely rather use free time to be on your phone reading posts on ST arguing over if that Sionel Landers guy (name changed to protect the innocent LOL) could win both 70.3 and Kona in the same season than pushing products on a fellow AGer...umm....hypothetically. Nothing wrong either way...but what would you rather be doing?

Given how small our sport is they probably all already know each other. Like anywhere...references and connections do matter.

Did you contact every member individually who you know on that team months out and let them know you were interested in helping EMJ with their message asking them to put in a good word? Did you mention how excited you were to grow their business because you believe in their products and more so, in how much they inspire men out there that they too can achieve their potential in sport and have serious careers, while involving their beautiful families in their #blessed triathlon journey all while using the EMJ shampoo for their shiny hair? Is that sentiment GENUINE? I am guessing it would not be entirely sincere and they can often detect that.

If sights are set on a team that is not a complete match with your beliefs you may want to undergo some hypnosis prior to application season next year until you are a true believer.

Also, when they rejected you, did you send them a thank you for the opportunity note, ask why you were not considered and express interest in following the team and that you hope to be selected next year and then keep quiet about your personal feelings? Those are the kind of people who likely get on.

I think the "job" here is marketing tool. If you don't want to be a tool, don't apply for the teams.

If you are OK with being a marketing tool in return for the opportunity to share the journey with men in matching kits, and the sponsorship discount codes and perks....the GLORY and validation of being selected and promoted by their media folks...you keep on trying. If you want the "funding" and platform for your age group career and you embrace their "message" start catering your social media to be a closer fit with their marketing avatar and get to know these guys personally as well.

In my opinion...you have a lot of what it takes...but I just suspect you don't want to be a tool enough to get selected.
Members are marketing vehicles and those who join take that role seriously or they won't last a season with it.

To what extent are you willing and able to be a tool?

You also might want a clean shaven FB profile picture and maybe find some kids....like nephews or cousins to get more family type feed added to your insta stories.

The deals that make the most sense that have the most alignment, often fall by the way-side.


Welcome to the world of, "rejection and negativity".

I always find stories like this fascinating. Another common one is - they did not get the Job, via the application interview process and it's devastating to them (the applicant)

I'm thinking more people, would cope and deal with these situations better if they spent some time in Sales. Rejection. Getting said, "No" or the more polite, "No thank you", to, is a frequent daily occurrence. The reality is, in B2B Sales/Business, and that's what this sort of situation is, as well as the Job Search (although many don't think of it that way - but they really should), 80% or more of the people you approach, pitch, talk to, sell-to, interact with, really don't care about you, and what you have to offer - and it's NOT something you can change. Don't take it personally. Just move on to the next bunch of opportunities in the funnel. Because you have lots of opportunities in the funnel, right?

Haycraft, I'm not sure if I'm more upset that you applied for EMJ or got rejected........

That's a good question. I think, as I alluded to in a post above, that I have somehow equated (mentally) being on a "team" like EMJ to being fast. Like, they've melded together. I am not fast if I am not on EMJ (or TriSports, or Snapple, or whatever). I have no rational explanation for why that is.

No reason, just a bunch of applications (I think close to 200) for a small (20ish maybe?) number of spots.

this has been an interesting thread

Didn't realize there are "fees" for a team like this. Can you believe people pay their hard-earned money to be a shill? The social media posts, the podium polo shirts with "sponsors", it's all really sad.

I'm with Dev. The teams are divisive and embarrassing.

Be grateful for the rejection.

they don't charge anything

they don't charge anything

"Am I butthurt about that? "

Does EMJ make a product for that?

I think I was more butthurt when the best thing I got in the rejection letter was a coupon code to buy their products. LOL. Couldn't even send free samples.

My favorite part about this old thread is that it stopped dead once someone offered you a spot on team zoot

My favorite part about this old thread is that it stopped dead once someone offered you a spot on team zoot

This was...fun...to read through again!

Ironically enough, the only triathlon I've done since this post was IMAZ 2019. Even better than being on EMJ, Zoot, or whatever, I raised over $4000 for Team Smile Train. So that was...signiiiiificantly more fulfilling as an experience as opposed to what could have been had this thread's application process gone differently.

Paying for a team to be on seems kind of dumb...UNTIL...you realize it isnt.

Paying for a team to be on seems kind of dumb...UNTIL...you realize it isnt.

Upfront cost: $300 - this gets you

• Top of line tri suit
• some t shirts
• hats
• water bottles

This would all cost around $400. So savings? $100. Especially if you need a suit anyway.

I also needed some new items.
Watch - savings $200
2 new tri suits to practice - savings $400 bucks.
Swim suits for the pool - savings $100 bucks
Helmet - savings $150 bucks
Wheels - didnt need them but save lots if I did
Bike - didnt need but savings if I did
Nutrition - basically paid half price for a seasons worth of nutrition - savings - ALOT


So yea you have to wear their kit and promote their stuff and the affiliated sponsors - but I saved probably $1000-$1500 bucks over the course of the season.

That is kind of worth it? If someone told me to wear a suit with a giant cock on it for an entire season and they would give me $1500 I would say make it a large veiny triumphant one.

I'll let you know when the realization that I'm paying $300 to advertise a Company's products doesn't seem like anything other than a brilliant PR move by said Company. Especially when the "discounts" you are being offered are probably less than (or, at best, equal to), the same flash sales offered by that Company every week throughout the year. They have not only convinced you to pay to advertise their product (yes, they are making money off you even with the "discounts"), they have convinced you that you are the one getting the value in this partnership. Brilliant move by them!

By the way, love you handle name!

Yeesh. You're bitter. Also a lot of what you said is wrong.

I started a thread that devolved.

You made sweeping generalizations about "paid" teams. Perhaps you are not familiar with all teams and are basing that statement on the ones you know and have come across?

I started a thread that devolved.

I'm heading back to team lone wolf.

Well I'm glad you did. I have always seen the various teams and their matching kits, but never thought much of it. I have always trained as a 'lone wolf' more than anything. This has been interesting and enlightening, albeit hard to sort the chaff from the wheat in all the posts.

It would be nice if there was a place on ST for organized information on tri teams (is there???). The 'elite' ones that spurred this thread to start, but also regional ones to help people realize what is out there around them and connect with the community. I honestly don't have any idea what tri teams might be around me, but if there was an easy way to find out I might venture out of my cave and try to connect with them to see if that aspect of tri community appeals to me.

FWIW, I think it's probably more fun beating EMJ guys in races than actually being on the team ;-).

I'll have to take your word on that... i've never managed to accomplish either one of these things, lol

1. I too have been rejected from a few teams. Thought not EMJ (I've never applied)

This seems like it's going to be one of those threads that pops up every once in a while. I always wonder what sort of searches lead users to it.

To update my OP:

Only ever raced 1 more triathlon after getting rejected from Rich's bro club. Did it on Team Smile Train. Was much more fulfilled.

Have since sold all my bikes (and my wife's bikes; she got mad about that...) and don't swim or bike at all.

And it's fantastic.

To be honest, I wasn't really sure WHY I applied. I think, in the end, it was mostly about wanting to feel important.

Now, the fact that I consider making the EMJ team to be a factor in "self importance" was probably the first signal that something was massively, massively wrong.

I didn’t read all responses, so I apologize if this has been said. Groucho Marx said, “ I would never join a club that would have me as a member”.
The few times I have been around EMJ members, I found them a quite self absorbed. I am no where near talented enough to race with them, but of all teams, EMJ gave me a negative feeling.
I, too, had no idea what idea what RMJ stood for and because of their attitude (or my perception of their attitude) I will never purchase their products.

But they are fast!