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November Swim Thread
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Post your workouts!

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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8 mi run 71:12
650 yd swim (straight, last 25 kick as a c/d)

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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SCM

WU 400 as Free, Kick, Pull, Choice by the 100

16 x 25 IM Drills

2 Rounds
[
7 x 50 Switch IM (FL/FL, FL/BA, BA/BA, BA/BR, BR/BR, BR/FR, FR/FR by the 25)
4 x 100 Pull
200 Kick, no Fins
100 Easy
]

Swim Fins & Paddles 100, 150, 200, 150, 100


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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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300 choice
6x50 descend 1-3, 4-6 on :60
8x25 all out on :60
4 x (
3x50 fast - fly, back, br
100 IM cruise
50 free fast)
300 Cd
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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A quickie
WARM UP
1 X 600 done as 100 SWIM / 50 SoL 1-6 / 50 6-6 PULSE (ALT. PULL/SWIM)
MAIN SET
20 X 50 PULL - 4 X (4 FAST, 1 EASY, BREATH 2-3) on :10 REST
COOL DOWN
1 X 200 ALTernate 25 EASY KICK ON BACK / 25 SWIM
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Re: November Swim Thread [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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FindinFreestyle wrote:
A quickie
WARM UP
1 X 600 done as 100 SWIM / 50 SoL 1-6 / 50 6-6 PULSE (ALT. PULL/SWIM)
MAIN SET
20 X 50 PULL - 4 X (4 FAST, 1 EASY, BREATH 2-3) on :10 REST
COOL DOWN
1 X 200 ALTernate 25 EASY KICK ON BACK / 25 SWIM

what's this? "50 SoL 1-6 / 50 6-6 PULSE

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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200 pull, 200 kick, 200 swim warmup

100's on 1:35, target 1:16.00 or better (1000 race pace)
1st fail @ 13 (rest an interval)
2nd fail @ 18 (rest an interval)
set failed @ 20

200 EZ

2x(4x25 on :30) @ 100 race pace (1 min rest between)

200 EZ

(I use a SportCount finger Stopwatch to get accurate touch times on every repeat)

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Nov 1, 17 16:09
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
FindinFreestyle wrote:
A quickie
WARM UP
1 X 600 done as 100 SWIM / 50 SoL 1-6 / 50 6-6 PULSE (ALT. PULL/SWIM)
MAIN SET
20 X 50 PULL - 4 X (4 FAST, 1 EASY, BREATH 2-3) on :10 REST
COOL DOWN
1 X 200 ALTernate 25 EASY KICK ON BACK / 25 SWIM


what's this? "50 SoL 1-6 / 50 6-6 PULSE

SoL or Statue of Liberty is my version of the old "6 kick switch". 1-6 is one stroke per 6(or more) kicks

6-6 Pulse or 'Pulse Kicking' in general is an original activity that involves changing something about the kick every set number of armstrokes.
So 6-6 PULSE (1 beat - 2 beat) means swim 6 strokes with a 1 bt, then 6 strokes with a 2 bt, back and forth. Endless variety on that one....6-6 PULSE HARD-EASY, 8-4 PULSE SWIM-PULL, 10-10 PULSE 1 bt - 6bt etc etc.
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Re: November Swim Thread [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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thanks for the explanation....

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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300 choice
2x200 pull
200 long and strong
6 x (
100 IM cruise
200 T pace)
300 CD

3000 SCM

First couple of 200s were slower than it felt like they should have been based on effort. Then I realized my stroke rate was really low for some reason. Picked that up a bit and things felt back in line with what I would have expected. I'll have to keep an eye on that and not be lazy.
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Re: November Swim Thread [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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today 7.2 mi run w/ 5k @ 8:00 pace
1375 yd swim

1000 swim
50 kick
2 x 100 on 1:30
150 swim
25 kick c/d

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Pool swim in the rain
1000s 13 flat
1000IM kick w/fins
200IM w/fins
4x100@1:30 alt pull/swim best swim - 1:08

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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200 pull, 200 kick

4x50 breast w/exaggerated butterfly entry glide on 1:15

50's butterfly on 1:15, target :37.50
1st fail @14 (rest an inverval)
2nd fail @ 19 (rest an interval)
set failed @ 22

300 EZ cool down

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Nov 2, 17 15:03
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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PATIENCE - صبر
WARMUP
1 X 300 done as 50 CHOICE / 25 PULL
12 X 25 Float & Paddle, ALT. 25 SLOW / 25 FAST on :30 REST
6 X 50 SWIM on :55
ODD - 1-BEAT, BUILD
EVEN - 2-BEAT, NEG SPLIT
MAIN SET
3 x (4 x 200 DESCEND 1-3) on 3:15
You begin by swimming 4 x 200, descending 1-4 on a relatively loose interval (~:45 rest). After completing the 4th 200, you immediately begin another set of 4 x 200 descending, with the 1st swim of this second set swum faster than the 1st swim of the first set, the 2nd swim of this set faster than the 2nd swim of the 1st set, etc. Then you do a 3rd set of 4 x 200, this time with the 1st 200 swum faster than the 1st 200 of the 2nd set, and so forth.
WARM DOWN 200 EASY SWIM w/FAST BREAKOUTS
Last edited by: FindinFreestyle: Nov 3, 17 8:08
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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5x through:

200 pull at 70%
2x100 pull as easy/build/easy/hard by 25’s
4x50 fast

:10 RI on all, no breaks

3000 scm

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
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Re: November Swim Thread [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
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damn, it's still my turn?

450 easy
4x100 with fins as 50 kick on back/50 swim
8x25 perfect on :30
4x100 pull buoy/band
8x25 perfect on :30
4x100 with fins as 50 kick / 50 swim
8x25 perfect on :30
4x100 pull buoy/band
4x25 perfect on :30

2750 scm

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
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Re: November Swim Thread [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
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Did 3000 yesterday at masters,

About 1000 warmup (4,3,2,1 pyramid SPKD)

10 x 200 as 200 of something followed by 8x25 of something, repeated 5 times in various flavours.

Some IM, some stroke, some kick, some pull in there, no straight freestyle though.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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yesterday 6.5 mi run in 55 min. Woke up with a headache, took ibuprofin, went back to sleep, and that cut into my workout time.

today 10.1 mi run in 90:05, 1475 yd swim.

8 x 100 on 1:30
50 kick
100 swim
50 kick
2 x 100 swim
275 mixing kick, breaststroke, doggie paddle :-)

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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3000 SCM this morning.

Main set 5 x (4 x 100 descend 1-4)
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Re: November Swim Thread [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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3500 scy as:

300 easy swim
6x100 with fins as 50 kick on back/50 swim
6x75 as 25 back/25 breast/25 swim
6x50 kick with fins and board, fast between the flags
6x75 swim, last 25 of each set fast

main set:
2x(200 pull at 70%, 2x100 pull at 75%, 4x50 build to 85%)

cool down 2x100 pull

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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I don't usually wander into these threads (I'm not sure why), but I have a question about etiquette - are you guys posting someone else's workouts? i.e. if you swim masters, are you cutting and pasting what your coach gave you? Or are these all self written?

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
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Re: November Swim Thread [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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I post what my coach (not masters) gives me.
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Re: November Swim Thread [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not on all that much, but I'll generally say if it's a workout from master's swim.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't swam much lately... it's trail running season!
So Saturday, I ran the WhoosIn El Moro 25k trail races. I clocked it at 15 miles with over 2500 feet of climbing and a mix of fire road and single-track, but mostly a lot of steep sections and a two mile downhill finish that drops nearly 750 feet (oh my quads!). I bettered my time by over 5 minutes from last year and I didn't cry in pain at the end - could actually walk! And, for the third year in a row, I placed first in my division (geezers). 21st overall.
On Sunday there was a road race, a 5k and 10k race known as Dino Dash. Last year, I won the 5k in 21:07 and won a highly coveted whimsical ceramic dinosaur trophy made by the high schools students of the school district that puts on the race. This year I did not race, but my GF has not won a dino trophy in two years of trying. She did this year, also in the 5k, with a 20:54. I checked my age group winning times - 5k: 22:47; 10k 1:00:and change. Crap, I should have raced and gotten myself another dino!

This Thursday and through the weekend, trail racing takes a back seat to Catalina Swim Camp where 65 open water swimmers from around the world converge to swim, party, swim, party and eat occasionally. We will get in one swim to a cave, that'll be about 3 miles round trip and then another as our boat takes us to a destination (last year it was Doctor's Cove) and we can elect to swim back - about 4 miles. There will be a lot of other swims, some running, SUP, yoga and alcohol. Oh yes, of course, food, too. The GF and I will probably practice some SwimRun, too.

Oh, and we had the best compliment... we were asked, "Do you guys have an 'off' button?" nope!

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
Last edited by: HalfSpeed: Nov 6, 17 10:25
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Re: November Swim Thread [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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that is a nice compliment!

yesterday 46.5 mi bike
today 8.5 mi run + 1075 yd swim

run was 3.6 mi (.5 @ 8:13 + 3.1 @ 8:06) + 3 x 1 mi @ 8:00
swim

500 swim
50 kick
2 x 100 on 1:30
50 kick
100 swim
150 swim
25 kick

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I don't usually wander into these threads (I'm not sure why), but I have a question about etiquette - are you guys posting someone else's workouts? i.e. if you swim masters, are you cutting and pasting what your coach gave you? Or are these all self written?

Mine are self-written.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Tonight was a good one.

Warmup :
200s 200p200k
3x100 on about 5 s rest, just easy build (#1 back / br, #2 br/fr , #3 fly drill/free)

Main set (with about 30-45s rest between groups)
6x100 @1:30 (hold 15's)
8x50 IM/free by 25 @:55
4x100 @1:25 hold 12's to 14's
6x50 build/ez by 25 @55
2x100 @1:20 (hold 10's)
4x50 @50 desc 1-4

3000m in about 50-55 mins

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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car trouble yesterday --> no swim. 9 mi run with each 3 mi about 26 min;, 2 mi bike
today 6 mi in bike commuting + 7.2 mi run (63 min) + 800 yd swim

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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825 yd swim, 3.1 mi run

car trouble + sick pets limited workout time. c'est la vie

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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300 choice
3 x 200 pull
8 x (
100 T pace
2x50 fast
50 all out)
300 CD

That main set was supposed to be 6x with a 50 ez at the end but I'm an idiot and didn't notice that when I read it...
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Re: November Swim Thread [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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Coach was sick, make up our own workout at Masters last night.

warmup - 300s, 200k, 100p

15x100 in a ladder, as (
5 x 100 d 1-5 @2:00
4 x 100 d 1-4 @1:50
3 x 100 d 1-3 @1:50 (IM)
2 x 100 d 1-2 @1:45
1 x 100 fast

then 3x (4 x 50) @60:
- 25fast/25ez
- 25ez/25fast
- 50 build
- 50 easy
round 1 and 3 free, round 2 fly.

200 warmdown

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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8k on the t-mill at lunch, followed by some crunches and some stretches to try and relieve lower back stiffness.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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1000 warm-up
5x (4x50@1; 2x100@1:50; 200)
- 1st round easy
- 2nd round easy with paddles
- 3rd round threshold
- 4th round threshold with paddles
- 5th round VO2 effort
200 easy
* 4200 LCM
Last edited by: vittorio: Nov 10, 17 10:32
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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2 good ones the last few days:

Thursday main set:
2 times through (20x25@:20, 50 easy, 10x50@:35, 50 easy, 5x100@1:10, 50 easy)
5200 scy

This morning got to swim next to, ugh watch swim away, an Olympian in the breaststroke.

Pre set: 10x100@1:30
Main set: 2x(200 fast @4, 50k hard, 200 fast, 50k, 200 easy, 100 fast, 50k, 100 fast, 50k, 100 easy)

“Raced†him free vs breaststroke on the 100 fast and barely won. Ha!

https://twitter.com/mungub
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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This is the year I finally will figure out butterfly.

I completed my first ever (legal) 50 fly (scm) during one of my workouts this month. I've since done my first ever 200IM. It took eternity (4:00), but it's a start.

The pull/kick set I've been adding to workouts this month is as follows:

4 x 100IM with the first 75 as pull, the last 25 kick (using the pull buoy as a kick board). Rotate through the stroke progression to start each 100 with a different stroke:

1. Fly/Bk/Br/Free
2. Bk/Br/Fr/Fly
3. Br/Fr/Fl/Bk
4. Fr/Fly/Bk/Br
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Re: November Swim Thread [trislayer] [ In reply to ]
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Working on a swim focus Nov/Dec/Jan. Trying to maintain 5+ per week, ~12.5k. I'm trying to do USRPT main sets twice a week.

Warmup:
---------
200ez
2x50 kick
2x100 single-arm

MS (USRPT):
----------------
20x100 (:20) @1:58 (failed at #16)

CD:
-----
200ez
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 10, 17 14:23
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Re: November Swim Thread [trislayer] [ In reply to ]
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2 mi bike, 5.5 mi run, 725 yd swim

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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450 swim
4x100 with fins as 50 kick on back/50 swim
2x200 buoy/band
4x75 as back/breast/free
4x100 with fins as 50 kick with board/50 swim
2x200 buoy/band
8x50 as fast/easy//easy fast on :60

2750 scm

3.7 mile run, zone 1/2

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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about 3200 yds today at a meet. Small meet, 35 swimmers, could do a mile or the 1000 but not both.

500 6:19.8
I won this (beat the 1 guy who swam it too). I don't have splits, but I went out fast and spent 6 minutes and change in delicious pain. Happy w. the time considering that I've mostly been getting in the pool and goofing off for about 10 min a day.


100 1:07.24
That is a good 100 time for me, 2nd female. This was my best race - I was trying to beat a woman two lanes over, and I did (she went 1:07.78).


1650 22:27
I won this, no male swimmers in the event. I didn't push it - wasn't sure what I could do (see above regarding lack of training), haven't swum this race in a year and a half. Not happy with my lack of pushing but I lapped the other two women five times and it was hard to push without someone who was about my speed. Splitting headache for a few minutes after. I wish I'd swum the 1000 instead - I would have had a better race. Oh well. I get more ST points for the mile ;-)


50 32.78
This is actually not a sucky time for me. No idea on the place. Arms were tired.


200 2:32
won overall but my body was tired and out of the speedz I had earlier.


Had fun :-)

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Warmup: 200ez

MS:
8x50 simglearm
5x100 (:20) odd with paddles / evens swim
8x50 (:20) fast 1-4 paddles / 5-8 swim
5x100 (:30) fast

CD: 200ez

Week 1, success. 5x swims, 12,000 scy. Next week is going to be more of a challenge. Business travel to tel aviv.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 11, 17 14:57
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Re: November Swim Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Week 1, success. 5x swims, 12,000 scy.

That's awesome. Nice work.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I have fairly huge achievement to report. I got to 23m of underwater dolphin kick today. First try was 20m or so and then next one I got "almost to the wall" but I chickened out and came up for air. I think if I can tighten up my streamline a bit and use my core a bit better, I'm there by the end of the month. Not that this is that useful in a triathlon context, nor in context related to swim racing, but I have found that improving my dolphin kick is improving my awareness of what my body is doing in the water in all strokes and helping me sustain good "fuselage architecture" to take from my days in aviation and talking about different aircraft shapes at subsonic speeds.

Also I am going to see if I can cover 25m fly from a wall push off with no breathing.....just for the fun of it. I can do 1-2 breath right now. Again, I think this one is a matter of better streamline/less drag than more aerobic capacity of better pull/propulsion.
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Nov 11, 17 17:40
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I still worry about your passing out...


8.6 mi run
1.2 mi @ 8:13, 1.2 mi @ 8:06, 1 mi @ 8:00, 1 mi @ 7:53, 1 mi @ 7:47 (easy tenths between them)


1275 yd swim: main set 10 x 100 on 1:30

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Trying to get a head start on next week.

Warmup: 200ez

MS:
8x50 simglearm
5x100 (:20) descend
8x50 (:20) alternating pull / swim
5x100 (:30) descend

CD: 200ez

2200scy before my business trip tonight.
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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I'm back from Catalina Swim Camp & reasonably sober (man, those marathon swimmers can knock it down all night long, then show up for 6 AM swim. Not me, I took it easy on the booze and partying)
The water ranged from about 66 at the start to 64 by the end with 62 on the west side (Cat Harbor), so I wore my SwimRun wetsuit for all swims except the relay, which was about 150 yards and which my team won and of which 5 of the six of us are triathletes.. hmmm.

Weds 11/8 - felt sick and did nothing
Thurs 11/9 - Morning swim at Shaws 2300 yards, really clear water and calm. Played in the Crack for awhile.
Then packed and drove to the chartered boat and headed for Two Harbors, Catalina. The drinking had begun, as well.
Fri 11/10 - Early morning swim to the USC Research Center along the south side of the harbor. 3577 yards. Followed by breakfast then another swim to the caves around the North Point to Cherry Cove. I swam into the cave and got sloshed around a lot... great fun! Heidi and I wore our SwimRun wetsuits and shoes and hiked up the cliff to the trail and ran back.
Sat 11/11 - Easy morning swim to Fourth of July Yacht Club pier and back - 2250 yards. Breakfast, then around noon, a little swim to the boat (to avoid docking fees) for an excursion to Doctor's Cove - where Channel Crossings typically start. We all jumped off, swam to shore, looked across at Palos Verde Penninsula - where channel swims typically finish and decided not to try... today. I took a picture of four channel crossers that were with us and then a bunch of us swam back to Two Harbors - 6145 yards, against current and wind and it took nearly 2 hours. A tough swim!
Sun 11/12 - Early morning swim over on the other side, in Catalina Harbor. The water was cold, full of silt (tubulent) and shallow and rocky as my jammed fingers will attest. We swam out into the ocean and as many described it, it felt really sharky out there. We admired a blowhole for some time then swam back as we were getting chilled in that 62 degree water. 2211 yards. Heidi and I finally got our long run in, which we had planned for 10 miles, but were pretty tired by this time and managed 5.5. Later, I realized why that run was tough - just over 1000 feet of climbing.

We didn't see a lot of marine life out there, just the usual garibaldi, bait fish, bass, kelp. But the highlight of the return boat ride was a huge pod of Dolphins, hundreds, swimming west at high speed. Awesome sight.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Thread [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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7 mi run 62:53
2275 yd swim

10 x 100 on 1:30
4 x [100 kick + 200 fast] 2:32, 2:31, 2:29, 2:29
50 back + 25 kick c/d

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
3200 SCM

300 choice
6x50 descend 1-3,4-6
2x200 pull
15x100 T pace on 1:35 (1:18s at the start, 1:16s at the end)
100 ez
2x50 kick
200 pull
2x50 kick
200 CD
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Re: November Swim Thread [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
3000 SCY


200 pull
200 kick
8x25 drills on :40

75's on 1:15, target pace < :54.00
1st fail @ rep 15 (extra interval rest)
2nd fail @ rep 18 (extra interval rest)
set failed @ rep 21

325 EZ choice

16 x 25 butterfly on :35, target pace < :17.50

100 EZ

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:

75's on 1:15, target pace < :54.00
1st fail @ rep 15 (extra interval rest)
2nd fail @ rep 18 (extra interval rest)
set failed @ rep 21

I think I saw you do something like this before. Am I understanding this right that you are doing 75s until you miss one at the target pace, you take extra rest and then continue, repeat until a 3rd miss and that's what ends the set? I like it.
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Re: November Swim Thread [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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Zenmaster28 wrote:
gary p wrote:


75's on 1:15, target pace < :54.00
1st fail @ rep 15 (extra interval rest)
2nd fail @ rep 18 (extra interval rest)
set failed @ rep 21


I think I saw you do something like this before. Am I understanding this right that you are doing 75s until you miss one at the target pace, you take extra rest and then continue, repeat until a 3rd miss and that's what ends the set? I like it.

Looks like a USRPT set (20 seconds rest, fail to hold pace 3x and you're out (or twice in a row). I started doing a similar set twice a week a couple weeks ago, but I'm doing 100s.
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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Hmmm....here in Tel Aviv this week. Got to the hotel at 4:30 am, asleep around 6a. Went for a swim in the hotel pool: a 25m filtered-sea water pool. Apparently I continuously suck water into my nose..and sea water does NOT agree with my nose. Had another USRPT set planned. Bailed after 1000m from swallowing sea water through my nose.

Warmup:

200m
2x50 kick (on back)
2x(2x50 single-arm/swim)

MS:
7x100(:20)

bailed....
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Re: November Swim Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
Zenmaster28 wrote:
gary p wrote:


75's on 1:15, target pace < :54.00
1st fail @ rep 15 (extra interval rest)
2nd fail @ rep 18 (extra interval rest)
set failed @ rep 21


I think I saw you do something like this before. Am I understanding this right that you are doing 75s until you miss one at the target pace, you take extra rest and then continue, repeat until a 3rd miss and that's what ends the set? I like it.


Looks like a USRPT set (20 seconds rest, fail to hold pace 3x and you're out (or twice in a row). I started doing a similar set twice a week a couple weeks ago, but I'm doing 100s.


Yes, that's an Ultra Short Race Pace Ttraining set at my 500 free race pace. If I miss a target time, I rest an interval, then resume the set. 3 misses total, or two consecutive misses, ends the set. Cap for this particular set is 32 repeats. If I get there before the three fails (or two consecutive fails), it's time to advance the pace for subsequent training sets. Making the first 20 on target is also a trigger to advance the pace.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Nov 14, 17 5:45
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Re: November Swim Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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exhale through your nose too :-)

7 mi run w/ 5 x 1.05 mi @ 8:34 pace
825 yd swim

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
I still worry about your passing out...


8.6 mi run
1.2 mi @ 8:13, 1.2 mi @ 8:06, 1 mi @ 8:00, 1 mi @ 7:53, 1 mi @ 7:47 (easy tenths between them)


1275 yd swim: main set 10 x 100 on 1:30

I am more scared than I am stupid, so I would not do anything pushing to the extremes where I might pass out. In any case, on Sunday I covered the full 25 m dolphin kick under water. Once I was 2/3 the way through I knew that if I stayed relaxed and streamlined while pushing hard and maintaining speed, I'd have enough speed to squirt to the other side....and I did. Monday I tried it again, just to make sure Sunday was not a fluke. Today, managed doing 3x25m underwater dolphin. Then I changed over to to over water fly and felt really smooth and relaxed....so then I tried to do 25m fly no breathing and really focused on the motion of my core, and kept it tight and snappy while minimizing vertical oscillation. For me overwater fly is way faster than underwater dolphin, so I knew I would get to the other side faster, but it also burns through more energy faster and creates more C02....but managed that too.

I realize this mainly falls into "feats of strength" but just in the last few days doing this, I feel I have done small things to my core/body/kick finish that translated already to actual fly and also to free.
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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7.6 mi run w/ 2.2 mi @ 8:13 and 2.5 mi @ 8:34
800 yd swim

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:

I am more scared than I am stupid, so I would not do anything pushing to the extremes where I might pass out.


Be careful. The thing with Shallow Water Blackout is that you don't necessarily feel like you are "pushing it to the extreme."

Your reflexive drive to abort a breath-holding exercise is triggered not by low O2 in your bloodstream, but by high levels of CO2. In anticipation of having to hold your breath, you may inadvertently hyperventilate ahead of time, driving down the base CO2 level in your blood. In such a case, it is possible that you may consume all the available O2 in your body before your CO2 level gets to that point which signals you to surface and breath. Several highly competent swimmers have inadvertently killed themselves this way.

Probably not gonna happen on a single 25, but doing consecutive 25's like that can be very risky.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Nov 15, 17 14:05
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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1000m easy with Pb/band/paddle
5x200 on 10"r with pull & pb
10x100 on 15" with pb
10x50 on 20"r free*
300 easy cooldown with Pb.
3800m total.

* original plan called for 20x50... I'll get there. This was more pull work then I typically do so baby steps.
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:

I am more scared than I am stupid, so I would not do anything pushing to the extremes where I might pass out.


Be careful. The thing with Shallow Water Blackout is that you don't necessarily feel like you are "pushing it to the extreme."

Your reflexive drive to abort a breath-holding exercise is triggered not by low O2 in your bloodstream, but by high levels of CO2. In anticipation of having to hold your breath, you may inadvertently hyperventilate ahead of time, driving down the base CO2 level in your blood. In such a case, it is possible that you may consume all the available O2 in your body before your CO2 level gets to that point which signals you to surface and breath. Several highly competent swimmers have inadvertently killed themselves this way.

Probably not gonna happen on a single 25, but doing consecutive 25's like that can be very risky.

I think you guys are over exaggerating the risk in the sense that after I complete the 25m, when I get to the other side, I take two breaths and am able to swim freestyle back to the other side easy. It's not like I am sitting there recoverying for a minute before I can move again. Also I worked up to it in that most of the year inside every set, while at full speed in the other strokes, I am starting with a 7-10 kick push off (usually bringing me out to the 7-10m point of the pool and that's while going at full throttle already. But I understand what you are saying which is why I did not try this without fins and gradually built up with fins first and then without and just added a few meters of distance at a time. 25m is far on one hand, but time wise I doubt it is even 25-30 seconds (but I don't know for sure). I would think that 30 seconds is not really a long duration provided that you're not generating a boat load of C02 concentration? I have no clue how long I can hold me breath never bothered trying, but walking around 45 seconds seems pretty easy. Of course dolphin kicking is a ton more work than walking but still. Maybe try jogging on the treadmill at a grade and see what a a safe duration is at intensity....but length seems not that long anyway and its more a function of the technique to dolphin kick fast enough far enough (25m) in a reasonable time versus the breath holding part. I am guessing my ability to hold my breath did not change at all over the year, and it's just technique that got better. Previously, I would have just come up for air early because I time expired under water and needed to come up. Now I can just cover more distance with better streamline and propulsion? Or maybe I can hold me breath longer. It's probably trainable, but likely a useless thing to train toward...really I was trying to improve my dolphin kick, not my breath holding and I think I got better at the kick part.
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Hello!
2017.11.15 06:00 CET, Hungary.


Main set:
400 WU choice
200 FC breath:3/5/7
100 FC rest: 20s
200 FC rest: 30s
300 FC rest: 40s
400 FC rest: 40s
300 FC rest: 40s
200 FC rest: 30s
100 FC rest: 20s
200 CD back/breast
Bonus:
600 pull bouy and paddles
Last edited by: KovacsK85: Nov 15, 17 22:58
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
I think you guys are over exaggerating the risk in the sense that after I complete the 25m, when I get to the other side, I take two breaths and am able to swim freestyle back to the other side easy. It's not like I am sitting there recoverying for a minute before I can move again. Also I worked up to it in that most of the year inside every set, while at full speed in the other strokes, I am starting with a 7-10 kick push off (usually bringing me out to the 7-10m point of the pool and that's while going at full throttle already. But I understand what you are saying which is why I did not try this without fins and gradually built up with fins first and then without and just added a few meters of distance at a time. 25m is far on one hand, but time wise I doubt it is even 25-30 seconds (but I don't know for sure). I would think that 30 seconds is not really a long duration provided that you're not generating a boat load of C02 concentration? I have no clue how long I can hold me breath never bothered trying, but walking around 45 seconds seems pretty easy. Of course dolphin kicking is a ton more work than walking but still. Maybe try jogging on the treadmill at a grade and see what a a safe duration is at intensity....but length seems not that long anyway and its more a function of the technique to dolphin kick fast enough far enough (25m) in a reasonable time versus the breath holding part. I am guessing my ability to hold my breath did not change at all over the year, and it's just technique that got better. Previously, I would have just come up for air early because I time expired under water and needed to come up. Now I can just cover more distance with better streamline and propulsion? Or maybe I can hold me breath longer. It's probably trainable, but likely a useless thing to train toward...really I was trying to improve my dolphin kick, not my breath holding and I think I got better at the kick part.



I agree that a single 25 for a competent swimmer is not really a risk, especially with fins. I occasionally do the same.

I brought up Shallow Water Blackout not so much as a warning to you, personally, but mostly to others who might see this thread and think about taking this kind of exercise to another level. Trying to go for longer distances, or doing repeats of this kind of exercise without sufficient recovery time, is when the risks start to become real.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I brought up Shallow Water Blackout not so much as a warning to you, personally, but mostly to others who might see this thread and think about taking this kind of exercise to another level. Trying to go for longer distances, or doing repeats of this kind of exercise without sufficient recovery time, is when the risks start to become real.

x2 "do not try this at home"

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Gary, I watched the video and I see that the high end swimmers are doing this repeatedly. In my case, with fins, what I actually do is 25m as 15-20m underwater then kick (a very controlled distance) and complete the length kick on back, and then swim back free, repeat the same but return fly, and do 4x50 or 8x50 but no rest, all fins on. Once in a while if I have a big rest before this set, I start with the first one all the way underwater. I believe this has provided me with good conditioning and increasingly better form to set me up to do things without fins and also to help my fly and backstroke without fins.

Without fins, as I mentioned almost every wall push off is 7-10m underwater kicking. All of this I have been doing to strengthen my core. Once in a while with a lot of rest I go no fins pretty far to start off a kick set (that's how I got interested in this distance challenge to myself). I'll do the first one and go far after a long rest and then swim back free, and then grab the kick board and do more kick. Or I did a 50m easy kick, take a long rest and do one length for distance dolphin, swim back free and then grab the kick bard. Thanks for the warning on not doing repeats. Being a competitive person I could easily get sucked into that. Till now, I have been focused largely on my form, not the number and have been taking decent rest before as you can see from the above.
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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Also i could add, that whenever I do a wall push off or I am doing dolphin kicking starts to 15ish m with fins as part of a set I am kicking hard. The times I have tried to go for distance, I would say that i am kicking "easy-medium" for 2/3 trying to focus on hand/arm head torpedo position and doing a controlled streamline kick out of the core and keeping feet tight and not letting the flop all over the place. It's only in the final 1/3 of the effort that I kick hard, using this as a technical training exercise for 2/3 before it becomes an oxygen management job. That final push takes me to wherever it take me. For overwater fly I kind of apply the same for a hard 50m fly. The first 2/3 my core and legs I try to keep the technique good but not kick too hard letting my upper body do the main pulling effort. Final 1/3, I get everything to work as hard as I can. Thoughts?
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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My thought is that you would get all the benefits you are going for without the risks by doing dolphin kick on your back (on the surface).

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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4 mi run (1.5 w/u + 1 mi @ 8:00 + 1.5 mi @ 7:53)
550 yd swim
2 mi bike

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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200 pull, 200 kick
8x25 fly drills

50's fly on 1:10, target < :37.00
1st fail @ 12
2nd fail @ 14
3rd fail @ 16

300 EZ

20 x 25 on :40, target < :14.00

100 EZ

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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Today's main "set" was 1x400m IM as 2x200IM (I did not feel like doing 100 continuous of each). Also 1x200m hard as 50/50/50/50 fly-free.

Also I timed 25 underwater dolphin (with a lot of rest before each) just to get an idea of how long I am holding my breath. With fins 19 seconds. Without fins 29 seconds. So as suspected, duration is not that long. Some thoughts on with and without fins. With fins, is faster, but oxygen consumption is more. Without fins, I am working less hard per kick, but need more kicks to get to the other side even though cadence is almost the same (maybe a bit faster without fins). I would have a tough time holding my breath for 30 seconds at the effort level of using fins (and I would go further). Without fins, can last longer due to less workload per stroke

These are the fins I am using:



I don't feel there is a risk at 25m for me, but maybe there is. I am not saying it is easy either. Before I do the 25m, I usually do 50m of easy kicking to shunt blood to the legs (vs arms) and then take a decent rest first.

Jason, what am I am doing screwed up on my back that is making it hard to kick on my back dolphin kicking at the surface? Is there a trick? do you keep your core and hips slightly under water (vs at surface) and just have your chest/head.arms at the surface?
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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You want your hips and legs to touch the surface on each kick. Get as close to the surface as you can without splashing.

It'll help you with streamlining and keeping the kick compact.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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By the way, what is the best training approach to get my 200m/400m IM time down. Do I focus on getting the repeats down on each leg as standalone stroke sets, or do I do sets mixing all strokes or do I do actual IM sets (like doing

for example

12 x 100m as 3x100m of fly, then 3x100 back, then 3x100 breast, then 3x100 free

or

12x100 as 25/25/25/25)

or 12x100m as 100 fly, 100 back, 100 breast, 100 free and repeat that 4 times?

or 6x200m IM

Or do you guys focus certain days on certain strokes and then everyone once in a while have an IM focused combined day?

Dev
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Yes.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
You want your hips and legs to touch the surface on each kick. Get as close to the surface as you can without splashing.

It'll help you with streamlining and keeping the kick compact.

That makes sense....also it also indicates to me that perhaps too much of my dolphin kick is in front of my body than behind. If I do what you are saying, pretty well the entire kick has to be behind my body
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Not really, because your hips will move up and down too. But it does keep you from overkicking.

But really, do that instead. It's better and safer.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Nov 16, 17 18:13
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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1200 yard open water swim in the Mediterranean. It was all I had time for before getting dressed for meetings today. Still awesome fun swimming in the clear sea through a big school of fish.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 16, 17 18:20
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Re: November Swim Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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3000 SCM - main set 30x50 on 1:01. Made #29, missed #30.
2x200 pull after that.
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Re: November Swim Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
1200 yard open water swim in the Mediterranean. It was all I had time for before getting dressed for meetings today. Still awesome fun swimming in the clear sea through a big school of fish.

Where in the Med did you swim? Pics would be awesome!

Dev
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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w/u 200 swim, 200 pull, 100 kick
8x50 easy on 1:00
6x50 pull on 1:00
4x50 odd back/swim, evens breast/swim
2x50 hard on :55
200 pull, 200 kick, 100 swim
2x75 pull
4x75 as back/breast/swim, :10RI
6x75 pull, :10RI
8x75 as 50 easy, 25 hard, :10RI
100 kick

3700 scm

~
breakfast
~

4.5 mile run zone 2 (cold!), 36:26

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
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Re: November Swim Thread [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
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Swim Swam came out to film our masters Fast Friday practice. Looking forward to seeing some ugly dives!

WU: 3x (2x200@3:00, 2x25 dive, :30 vertical kick)
MS: 2x (5x100@2:00, 50ez, 3x100, 50ez, 1x100, 50ez, 5x50@1:00, 50ez, 3x50, 50ez, 1x50, 50ez)

Increasing the pace for each set to build to 100%. Pretty tough set but pleased with the times.

https://twitter.com/mungub
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Re: November Swim Thread [mungub50] [ In reply to ]
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That's awesome, post a link when it comes out!

Who was there? Did you get to meet gold medal Mel?

mungub50 wrote:
Swim Swam came out to film our masters Fast Friday practice. Looking forward to seeing some ugly dives!

WU: 3x (2x200@3:00, 2x25 dive, :30 vertical kick)
MS: 2x (5x100@2:00, 50ez, 3x100, 50ez, 1x100, 50ez, 5x50@1:00, 50ez, 3x50, 50ez, 1x50, 50ez)

Increasing the pace for each set to build to 100%. Pretty tough set but pleased with the times.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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7.6 mi run w/ 4 @ 8:34 pace, felt easy and sustainable
1275 yd swim - straight with some kicking

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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800 warm-up as 200 free, 50 kick, 50 back, 200 free, 50 kick, 50 back, 200 snorkle as 50 kick-150 swim

2x
(400
(4x50
(300
(3x50
(200
(2x50
(100
(50

First round, work the long stuff, 1:30/100 send-off; 50s choice @:60
Second round, work 50s @:60; smooth 100s @1:40 base

400: 5:00
300: 3:44
200: 2:30
100: 1:13

50s fast, mix of backstroke (:41s) and free (:35-6)

500 smooth, mix of snorkel and no snorkel

4300m LONG COURSE, ~5000'/1600m altitude.
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Re: November Swim Thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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9.5 mi run 85 min, very even splits
1125 yd swim

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Have really not swam much the past few months, but got a window of a couple 1500yd workouts in the past few days and yesterday did what I would call a semi workout, you guys know what a semi is, right?? Hope to get a full if this schedule keeps up.. (-;

5x100swim@1;40 (1;25 to 1;22)
3x100IM kick@2;05 (1;56 to 1;52)
3x300p@4;30 (3;56/3;51/3;48)
100IM kick
6x150p@2;20 easy,, pacing Dan on these( 2;07's)

2700SCY
Last edited by: monty: Nov 18, 17 10:36
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Re: November Swim Thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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400: 5:00
300: 3:44
200: 2:30
100: 1:13

50s fast, mix of backstroke (:41s) and free (:35-6)

500 smooth, mix of snorkel and no snorkel

4300m LONG COURSE, ~5000'/1600m altitude. ///

Thats a nice main set at that altitude, you live that high or just visiting? 1;15 pace for LCM without oxygen will get your body to produce some serious legal EPO.. (-;
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Re: November Swim Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I moved to Colorado a few months ago. Slowly adjusting.

EPO was a question on my oral exam for my Masters in exercise physiology. 1998, right before Lance started “winning†the TdF. I’m building red blood cells without a needle.
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Re: November Swim Thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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8 mi run w/ 2 x 4 km @ 8:13 pace
1525 yd swim (12 x 100 on 1:30)

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Last edited by: Dr. Tigerchik: Nov 19, 17 13:01
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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I've been sick lately. Apparently, a few have since returning from Catalina Swim Camp, https://vimeo.com/243496184

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Thread [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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Which camp was that Steve, the Jamie Patrick one, or another one?? And yes the back side would be a bit scary with all those seals around, they don't call the beach Shark Harbor for nothing!!
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Fly back from Israel last night. Slept 14 hrs. Still a little out of sorts....

WU:
200ez
2x50 kick
2x(2x50 singlarm/swim)

MS:
5x100 (:20)

CD: 200ez

Felt good to start, and the first few 100s were fast... but, I faded pretty quickly. Didn't want to smoke myself with sub-par swimming once things started to fall apart, so I bagged it.

I took it as a small victory that I made it to the pool at all after 27,000 miles of flying in the last 6 days, averaging about 2 hrs of sleep a night and way to much alcohol every night.

I didn't make my yardage or frequency goals for the week, but at least i did manage 4x swims with all that travel.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 19, 17 20:07
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Only got in the water once last week, thanks to life happening. Wife had surgery last Thursday (she's fine, thanks!) and while she's recovering no lifting allowed, which means I'm doing all of her jobs around the house, plus mine, plus she can't look after the toddler at all, and I have to look after her needs on top of it all.

I did manage to get on the bike a few times after everyone was in bed, started doing the "FTP Builder" workouts in Golden Cheetah's ErgDB library. I find that's mentally easier than just getting on the bike and pedalling away, since I just want to do something else after 15 minutes. With GC workouts I have to think about maintaining a certain power level.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Only got in the water once last week, thanks to life happening. Wife had surgery last Thursday (she's fine, thanks!) and while she's recovering no lifting allowed, which means I'm doing all of her jobs around the house, plus mine, plus she can't look after the toddler at all, and I have to look after her needs on top of it all.

I did manage to get on the bike a few times after everyone was in bed, started doing the "FTP Builder" workouts in Golden Cheetah's ErgDB library. I find that's mentally easier than just getting on the bike and pedalling away, since I just want to do something else after 15 minutes. With GC workouts I have to think about maintaining a certain power level.

Glad your wife is doing well. In terms of the bike and trainer, make every ride on the trainer count. I find it a complete waste of time to do easy riding on the trainer. Either build power, or if you want to go easy, go for an easy run or easy swim...at least in the other two sport when you go easy you can work on a technical skill....easy riding in the winter is a complete waste of time after warmup!

Back to some earlier stuff....OK dolphin kick on my back, at the water surface I don't know what I am doing wrong but I suck. If I do it under water and close my eyes like I am underwater face down, I am fine, if I open my eyes, I get all screwed up....don't ask me why.....adult onset swimmer/water panic issues perhaps...no clue.

Anyway, you guys will be happy that I won't die doing stupid stuff. What I did yesterday after lane swim closes and public swim opened is I did 10x16m dolphin kicks underwater across 6 lanes (widths)....recovery was water run back across width of pool, still working the legs...rest for a few seconds and back across. This is basically idiot proof because I WILL hit the wall in 6 lanes of width! My fly sprint is getting better.....my breastroke still sucks beyond belief...back stroke is getting there.
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Unfortunately, because of everything going on I can't start a workout until around 10pm, which pretty much means that my only options are
a) the trainer or
b) sit on the couch, eat chips and watch Netflix.

even if I were to get up at o'dark thirty, I'd still be confined to the trainer in case the toddler woke up since my beloved bride isn't allowed to lift him. He usually gets up at 6:30 ish, but last night he was up at 2am, and 4, and 5, and 5:30..... He's teething....

I don't sleep anymore. ugh....

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
Which camp was that Steve, the Jamie Patrick one, or another one?? And yes the back side would be a bit scary with all those seals around, they don't call the beach Shark Harbor for nothing!!
Yeah, but Jamie wasn't involved this year. Scott Zornig and Lynn Kubasek produced the camp this year. There is all sorts of 'weird' on the backside, Cat Harbor. We entered within the harbor and it was quite rocky and shallow and the surf churned up the sand - we couldn't see even a foot in front of us. Scott and I were swimming side-by-side and both ran into the same rock. Once out of the harbor, we swam south for half a mile. That's when we all started getting a bit spooked. Really scary when your swimming through bait balls.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
that whole no sleep thing is part of why I'm happily single and childless.

3400 yds with a visiting prof, former D3 400 IMer. He's faster than I am and it was a treat...we did some together, and other times he would swim the first and last 50s of my 200s to push the pace.

main set
5 x 100 on 1:30
200 fast 2:25
5 x 100 on 1:30
2 x 200 fast on 4:00 2:27, 2:26
5 x 100 on 1:30 kick the odds
3 x 200 fast on 4:00 2:26 2:27 2:27

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
recovery swim with the wife today:

200 kick, 200 swim
150 kick, 150 swim
100 kick, 100 swim
50 kick, 50 swim
6x75 back/breast/free
2x150 pull, build every 50
4x50 with fins, odds are kick on back/free, evens are kick on back/fly
8x50, odds are easy/fast, evens are fast/easy
50 kick

2400 scy
into
7.5mi run, steady zone 2

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
WU
200ez
2x50 kick
2x(2x50 single arm / swim)

MS (usrpt)
20x100(:20) @1:39
Failed at 16 completed remainder

CD: 200ez

2600scy
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I tried a USRPT session on Sunday. It was:

600 W-U

8x25 @:20 r fly (:15-16)
2-3 mins break
8x50 @:20 r back (:35-36) when I started falling apart
2-3 mins
Tried X x100 @ :20 rest at 1650y pace, (1:03-4) but fell apart at 4. This altitude ain't no joke.
4x50 @ :20 r (:30-31), and I was DONE.

Point is that I need to do only the 100 set and not fool around with that other stuff.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
140triguy wrote:
I tried a USRPT session on Sunday. It was:

600 W-U

8x25 @:20 r fly (:15-16)
2-3 mins break
8x50 @:20 r back (:35-36) when I started falling apart
2-3 mins
Tried X x100 @ :20 rest at 1650y pace, (1:03-4) but fell apart at 4. This altitude ain't no joke.
4x50 @ :20 r (:30-31), and I was DONE.

Point is that I need to do only the 100 set and not fool around with that other stuff.


Yes, do your principal set first, then the "dabbler" sets. And, yes, swimming at altitude is no joke. Did a couple workouts at the Silverthorne Rec Center (elevation ~9000') when were on vacation in Dillon a couple summers ago. It was brutal for this low-lander, who's native elevation is ~750'~!

If you're trying to do race pace work at altitude based on times you've done at or near sea level, you probably need to make a pace adjustment. This document might give you some guidance: http://www.pacswim.org/...r/files/altitude.pdf

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Nov 21, 17 5:07
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
3000 SCM

300 choice
2x200 pull
7 x (
100 IM
2x50 kick
100 T pace)
200 CD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Wu: 200ez

Ms:
8x50 simglearm
10x50 (:20) @:41
8x50 simglearm
5x100 (:20) @1:38
8x50 (:20) semi-catchup

2400scy
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Main set today was modified IM....5x200m as 50 fly-25 back-25 breast-100 free....yes the triathlete in me came out and I just can't bring myself to do all the breast and back stroke!!!!
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I did the USRPT early in the practice. YARDS

4 x 150 WU as 125 swim, 25 kick

X x 75 @ 1:10, holding 1650y pace plus altitude fudge factor
1-16 ~ :47-:48high
Fail
1:10 break
17-22 ~ :47-48low

(Broken 1650 ~ 17:3x)

Goal was 22 x 75 holding :48-:49 since my best swim recently was in 2015, USMS Nationals 1650, 17:33 (1:03high pace)

200 CD as snorkel 25 kick-50 swim x 2 and 50 free
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
5 minute warm up.. (land based)

1hr26 in the endless pool - 5k (3.1 miles)
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [decadave] [ In reply to ]
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Back to the ocean! YAY! But still barely above 60. Wearing my T1 top gives me just enough insulation. Still coughing up some lung chunks, but being in the ocean seems to clear much of that out. 2400 yards in 37 minutes, including three swims through the crack - water was calm enough to do it safely.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
400 swim
8x50 as 25 kick on back/25 swim
2x250 pull
400 kick
2x250 pull
16x50 on :55

3000 sum

4.4mile hilly ROTS

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
200 pull, 200 kick warmup

8x25 butterfly drills

50's fly on 1:10, target < :37.00
1st fail @ 13 (rest an interval)
2nd fail @ 18 (rest an interval)
set failed @ 23

250 EZ cool down

2000 SCY


Making progress towards my goal of being able to "race" a 200 fly. Maybe one more set at this pace/interval, and I should be able to drop the interval to 1:05. Ultimate training goal this season is to be able to do 16 consecutive at < :36.00 on a 1:00 interval. That should yield a ~2:24 200 fly race time.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Nov 22, 17 19:04
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gary p wrote:
200 pull, 200 kick warmup

8x25 butterfly drills

50's fly on 1:10, target < :37.00
1st fail @ 13 (rest an interval)
2nd fail @ 18 (rest an interval)
set failed @ 23

250 EZ cool down

2000 SCY


Making progress towards my goal of being able to "race" a 200 fly. Maybe one more set at this pace/interval, and I should be able to drop the interval to 1:05. Ultimate training goal this season is to be able to do 16 consecutive at < :36.00 on a 1:00 interval. That should yield a ~2:24 200 fly race time.

When I was a track runner, to get 800m times down, we would do sets that would build up from 100's, up to 400's down to 100's

Something like

2x100m
2x200m
2x400m
2x200m
2x100m

You got dialed at the shorter distance and then did a couple of intervals (the 400's) slightly slower than target race pace, but had to hold the form, and then you'd do the final 200's and 100's a bit faster than race pace....basically the idea there was to wind into race pace, and then have a few longer ones holding close to the pace and then the last bunch which were shorter we did at faster than target race speed with the idea of practice negative splitting in practice to do it in racing.

You could apply the same approach given that a 200m swim race is generally like a 800m track race (OK, your 200m fly is more like a 1000m track race, but still).

My workout today had main set 5x200m modified IM (50 fly-25 back-25 breast-100 free). During my warmup I also did 4x25m under water dolphin kick with fins, and super easy free back to the other side to recover, take 10 breaths rest and repeat. I have gotten to the point that doing it with fins is not a huge challenge in that it is not a question of making it to the other side, it is more about how fast and how relaxed. Also before I did the 4x25 underwater dolphin kick, I did 1x25 with no fins with a long rest before. That one was pretty funny because in the pool beside my lane there was a whole group of ladies doing aqua aerobics and I hit one point in the water half way along where the water got all turbulent on me and I felt that my core and legs where to gabbing still water and flicking it off my legs/feet....it felt like trying to dolphin kick through a washing machine all of a sudden....don't know what the ladies were doing, but they were creating some type of an eggbeater induced impulse response in the deep water!!!! Really weird sensation. In any case, I think I am making progress on my dolphin kick (and doing it safely well before any hard sets and with a lot of rest)....and maybe I like the challenge of kind of living on the edge along the lines of liking riding down a steep technical hill at 90 kph riding my top tube or skiing down a steep technical hill on the edge of losing control on blue ice where your skis suddenly feel like they will shoot out from under you when you hit the blue ice but you manage to stay on top. I just can't help it. If there were no cops, I would always drive 200 kph on highways. Its just how I am wired....but I won't do this stupidity in a 50m pool....deal!
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
You could apply the same approach given that a 200m swim race is generally like a 800m track race (OK, your 200m fly is more like a 1000m track race, but still).

200y fly is like a 1000y road race ..... up a hill..... that gets steeper and steeper as you go.

The five stages of a 200 fly:



"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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That seems like an excessive amount of fly, to me anyway. Even if you are making pace times, I have no idea how you are doing it with decent form. I've always though that Form > Volume for fly, once the form breaks down its time for a break.


gary p wrote:
200 pull, 200 kick warmup

8x25 butterfly drills

50's fly on 1:10, target < :37.00
1st fail @ 13 (rest an interval)
2nd fail @ 18 (rest an interval)
set failed @ 23

250 EZ cool down

2000 SCY


Making progress towards my goal of being able to "race" a 200 fly. Maybe one more set at this pace/interval, and I should be able to drop the interval to 1:05. Ultimate training goal this season is to be able to do 16 consecutive at < :36.00 on a 1:00 interval. That should yield a ~2:24 200 fly race time.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeah I was reading recently a good path for 50s is 10 on 1:00, with the ultimate goal of 10 on :50.
I actually like the long rest you gave yourselfĂ¢Â€Â”itĂ¢Â€Â™s not usrpt, but I think thatĂ¢Â€Â™s good because it was letting you accumulate lots of probably decent fly.
Another good set is 20x25 on a short rest interval. And by good, I mean terrible. :)
IĂ¢Â€Â™ve been on a break from 2 fly training to work on my free. YouĂ¢Â€Â™re making me question that.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Trexlera] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I did some 50 fly work (25s FAST on long rest) the last couple winters, but decided to skip right past the 100 this season and work on the 200. I knew if I did by the book USRPT intervals, I would get no volume so I started with a 1:15 interval. I do this set once a week, the rest of my fly work is 25. I am trying to balance quality and volume, and trying to learn to hold form as best I can even when fatigued.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Nov 24, 17 4:51
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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I got inspired by you guys to do a sprint oriented workout....basically it was 50's of some kind all day....actually 25's with 25 recovery, 10 second rest and then repeat. The sprint sections were fly, underwater dolphin kick 25's with fins, free with 15 m under water dolphin sprint off each wall, and just regular free sprint. When you guys are sprinting 50 fly, are you breathing every 2nd or 3rd stroke? Or even more like 4?
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
I got inspired by you guys to do a sprint oriented workout....basically it was 50's of some kind all day....actually 25's with 25 recovery, 10 second rest and then repeat. The sprint sections were fly, underwater dolphin kick 25's with fins, free with 15 m under water dolphin sprint off each wall, and just regular free sprint. When you guys are sprinting 50 fly, are you breathing every 2nd or 3rd stroke? Or even more like 4?

If I'm doing a single sprint 25 or 50 fly, I breath every 3. Sprint 25 repeats on anything less than a minute's rest? Every 2. Repeats of any distance greater than 25? Every stroke.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
3000 SCM this morning with a main set of:

40x50 on :50 as
1-16 every 4th fast
17-28 every 3rd fast
29-36 every 2nd fast
37-40 fast
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I did my birthday swim today, since pools where I am visiting we're closed on my birthday yesterday:

46 x 100scm @ 1:30
100 C-D "to grow on"

4700m in a 25m pool
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gary p wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
I got inspired by you guys to do a sprint oriented workout....basically it was 50's of some kind all day....actually 25's with 25 recovery, 10 second rest and then repeat. The sprint sections were fly, underwater dolphin kick 25's with fins, free with 15 m under water dolphin sprint off each wall, and just regular free sprint. When you guys are sprinting 50 fly, are you breathing every 2nd or 3rd stroke? Or even more like 4?


If I'm doing a single sprint 25 or 50 fly, I breath every 3. Sprint 25 repeats on anything less than a minute's rest? Every 2. Repeats of any distance greater than 25? Every stroke.

I actually tried a 25m sprint the other day "no breathing"....10m under water dolphin, 15m hammerfest. I can't post my lame time in real swimmer thread, but I am not sure I even broke 20 seconds, but could not lift up my head up fast enough to see the clock in time since I needed some air. It is probably no faster than breathing twice in the final 15 m. But fun playing around nonetheless.
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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OK....general question to this thread....how the heck do you sprint in back stroke...I have two gears....super easy and medium cruise. What is the ticket to move really fast.... Kick harder and faster and let the legs drive the arm cadence or increase cadence by moving arms faster....no matter what I do I end up at the same speed which is not fast at all! We won't even get I into the predicament of doing fast breast stroke. That is a lost cause for me.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I got nothing for you on backstroke. Barely faster than my breastroke. Fast backstrokers amaze me.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gary p wrote:
I got nothing for you on backstroke. Barely faster than my breastroke. Fast backstrokers amaze me.

My fastest 50 breast time is 2.8 seconds faster than my fastest 50 back. Backstroke is a big mystery to me.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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Happy birthday and nice Swim!

Did the Jan Frodeno set from the start but scy -
4x400@5:00, 4x300@3:45, 4x200@2:30, 4x100@1:15 (4000 in 50 mins!)

Then some random mix for 5000scy

https://twitter.com/mungub
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gary p wrote:
I got nothing for you on backstroke. Barely faster than my breastroke. Fast backstrokers amaze me.

During my 4200m swim my "main set" was only 5x100m as

five times 25m hard underwater dolphin-25m hard free-25m hard fly-25m easy-10 deep breaths rest

First 4 with fins, last one no fins. That was an awesome "main set". The rest of the swim was a mix of IM and random 50 sprints of fly or free. I tried 'sprinting' back stroke, but it feels like a lost cause....I think I need more hip rotation.

Dev
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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the swim I posted Monday was my only swim for last week. I spent Thanksgiving off the grid in the desert in Utah. I did runs of 7, 5, 6, 6.2, and 8.6 miles, and a bunch of rock climbing. The first and latter 3 runs were all with at least 1 dog :-)

This morning I ran 7.2 miles w/ 4.5 @ 8:20 pace and 1.7 @ 8:13 pace, then swam 400 yards. Felt good to be back in the pool.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Last edited by: Dr. Tigerchik: Nov 27, 17 13:49
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Nov 23 - Morning ocean swim of 2690 yards in 41 minutes. We concluded with an on the beach Thanksgiving potluck.

Nov 24 - Pod decided to swim at Woods Cove, so I decided to run to it, only 6.2 miles, but partly on a super steep singletrack trail. Took me 1:02 to get there. Swam 2670 yards in 39 minutes, almost swam straight into a reef, but it was so scenic, a beautiful cold water swim. Then I ran back, same route, over 1000 feet of climbing 1:10.

Nov 25 - A wonderful, longer ocean swim from Oak Street to Rockpile and back. Water is barely hitting 60 in the warm patches! 4100 yards in 59 minutes. I folowed that later in the day with a short 2.4 mile (365 feet of climbing) run in 18:18 - hitting a 6:18 pace in the last half-mile (downhill).

Nov 26 - Shaw's Cove in the morning - swam south to Main Beach Buoy and back. Water reported to be 58 degrees. 3530 yards in 54:30. Followed that with a run into the Laguna Wilderness - 6 miles in just over an hour & 1136 feet of climbing.

Nov 27 - Pool swim 2500 yards in about 45 minutes
500s 6:14
5x200 KWF all stroke (br twice)
10x50@1:00 alt br/fr - hard effort br - :41; fr - :31
5x100 @1:30 w/fins fr/bk/fl/fr/IM


Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 did my birthday swim today, since pools where I am visiting we're closed on my birthday yesterday:

46 x 100scm @ 1:30
100 C-D "to grow on" //

Nice job. 46 was the last year I got to do my birthday set SCM on the 1;20. I did mine with paddles and buoy and usually have some friends in the lane ahead of me. It was just a few months later that I got 3rd in masters nationals in the 400IM ( I think 4;45) and then had my heart breakdown in June, having to reevaluate all my life priorities and time send offs.


Got back on track kind of at 56 and did those on the 1;15 SCY going 3rd in a fast lane. Guessing my next stop will be 1;20/25 now in my early 60's.


What did you hold on your swims, do you think you could have inched the interval down at any point, or even started and finished on 1;25?
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Beginner swimmer here:

Warm-up: 2 x 100F, 100 Catch Up. 15-30 SR
between each 100

Main Set: Pyramid - 30SR between each repeat
50 - 100 - 150 - 200 - 150 - 100 - 50

Cool down: 200 Free/drill of choice
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ugh. Why does the first day back in the water after a measly few days off always suck?

WU:
200ez
2x50 kick
2x(2x50 singlearm/swim)

MS:
7x100 (:20) @1:40

CD:
200ez

1400scy.

MS was supposed to be USRPT 20x100, but the stroke just wasn't there today. Felt out of balance, and shoulders were stiff---just "off". Same story as when I got back from Israel. Hopefully tomorrow repeats the pattern, and is a good day.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
6.9 mi run 60:40
850 yd swim

7 x 100 on 1:30
150 c/d

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:

gary p wrote:
200 pull, 200 kick warmup

8x25 butterfly drills

50's fly on 1:10, target < :37.00
1st fail @ 13 (rest an interval)
2nd fail @ 18 (rest an interval)
set failed @ 23

250 EZ cool down

2000 SCY

That seems like an excessive amount of fly, to me anyway. Even if you are making pace times, I have no idea how you are doing it with decent form. I've always though that Form > Volume for fly, once the form breaks down its time for a break.

Did a modified version of this set tonight. Shortened the target time to :36.50 because that seemed to be the threshold of form failure. Failed to make the target time @ 10 and 14. After the second failure, I went to 25's. Did 12 on :35, and 12 on :40, all under :17.50. Ended up with both more volume AND better quality.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
140triguy wrote:
I did the USRPT early in the practice. YARDS

4 x 150 WU as 125 swim, 25 kick

X x 75 @ 1:10, holding 1650y pace plus altitude fudge factor
1-16 ~ :47-:48high
Fail
1:10 break
17-22 ~ :47-48low

(Broken 1650 ~ 17:3x)

Goal was 22 x 75 holding :48-:49 since my best swim recently was in 2015, USMS Nationals 1650, 17:33 (1:03high pace)

200 CD as snorkel 25 kick-50 swim x 2 and 50 free
That's an awesome set. I'll give that a try soon.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Trexlera] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Zone-out day:

3x(6x100 buoy/band—>400 swim)

3000 scm

3.3 mile recovery run

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
OK....general question to this thread....how the heck do you sprint in back stroke...I have two gears....super easy and medium cruise. What is the ticket to move really fast.... Kick harder and faster and let the legs drive the arm cadence or increase cadence by moving arms faster....no matter what I do I end up at the same speed which is not fast at all! We won't even get I into the predicament of doing fast breast stroke. That is a lost cause for me.

I do think kick is important, but more important is syncing up the recovering arm and the pulling arm. Then get the recovery moving and your pulling arm will stay with it...ideally.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
OK....general question to this thread....how the heck do you sprint in back stroke...I have two gears....super easy and medium cruise. What is the ticket to move really fast.... Kick harder and faster and let the legs drive the arm cadence or increase cadence by moving arms faster....no matter what I do I end up at the same speed which is not fast at all! We won't even get I into the predicament of doing fast breast stroke. That is a lost cause for me.


google "backstroke spin drill - ryan lochte". that's how you develop speed. It's also hard as fuck.

shoulder roll drives the stroke in backstroke. turnover is critical.

it also helps to be built like Matt Grevers or Ryan Murphy...

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Nov 28, 17 19:12
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Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
OK....general question to this thread....how the heck do you sprint in back stroke...I have two gears....super easy and medium cruise. What is the ticket to move really fast.... Kick harder and faster and let the legs drive the arm cadence or increase cadence by moving arms faster....no matter what I do I end up at the same speed which is not fast at all! We won't even get I into the predicament of doing fast breast stroke. That is a lost cause for me.


google "backstroke spin drill - ryan lochte". that's how you develop speed. It's also hard as fuck.

shoulder roll drives the stroke in backstroke. turnover is critical.

it also helps to be built like Matt Grevers or Ryan Murphy...

That looks like a good way for me to get my own lane in the mornings!
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Trexlera] [ In reply to ]
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I need to get up earlier. 10k run w/ 2 x 2 mi (16:19, 16:00) then 550 yd swim.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Warmup :
200ez
2x50 kick
2x(2x50 simglearm /swim)

Ms:
20x100 usrpt @1:39
Failed at #19 --- I was really bummed to see the 1:41 at this point! Ugh. Tried to hold on to the stroke for all I was worth.

Cd: 200ez

2700scy


November goal was do the full usrpt set @1:40. Hope to do all 20 on Friday (December 1st) @1:39. I will call that a win.

ETA: This set really kicked my ass. I pushed pretty hard in the last 8x100s to hold the pace, without letting the stroke fall apart. Then, the wife asked me to pickup dinner on the way home, and I found myself wandering aimlessly around the grocery store in zombie mode---AFTER I already had the baked chicken and green beans in the basket. I don't really even know what I was looking for.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 30, 17 10:04
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Re: November Swim Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
9 mi run 81:43, the 3 mi splits 27:10, 27:14, 27:19. Those are in the wrong direction but at least are consistent!
875 yd swim

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Painful masters set - scm
400 fins (50 sw/50 kk)
8X50 dr on 1.10 (2 scull, 2 bk catch up, 2 scull, 2 bk catch up)
8X25 swim steady on 40
8X50 on 1 - odds dps, evens hold sc and desc 1-4
400 - 75 fr/25 IM order (5:20)
8X50 on 50 (25 pause arm/25 sw)
Main set
4X(8x25 fins max effort/ 200 p easy/ 50 fast desc 1-4, 100 ez) 25s on 20/25/30/35 by round
50s
The 25s were brutal
Got down to a 30.0 push 50 at end

Dc
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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50's fly on 1:10, target < :37.00 //

I really like this set you have on your schedule now, and plenty of ways for people to adjust the times and swims to suit them. I would love to do it as you did, but since I have done no fly in ages beyond the occasional 25, and every time I get any traction one of my 3 kids gets me sick and it takes over a week to get back in the water, I adjusted it just a tiny bit to start with. Hope to push out the number of repeats and eventually do it all fly too, and get close to your interval times too!!

4x100swim@1;40(1;26/25's)
2x150IM kick@3;10( 2;56/54)
4x150p@2;20 (2;01's)
150IM kick(2;53)
4x50@1;10 25fly/25free (39/38/38/37) could do more, but not quite ready to do sets to failure right yet

1650SCY
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Re: November Swim Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
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200 pull, 200 kick
4x50 build

100's on 1:35, target < 1:13.00
(made 20 consecutive, had to quit for time)

200 EZ cool down.

2800 SCY



For comparison's sake, I did this set on November 1 with a target time of 1:16 and failed at 13,18, and 20. It was a good month in the pool for me. 23 sessions, 25.5 hours, 56,350 yards.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Nov 30, 17 15:49
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Re: November Swim Thread [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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Warm up
300 kicking with and without fins
200 backstroke to open up the shoulders.
800-1000 paddle work (more on the days without backstroke)

Dr Jay
http://www.Tri-Pod.net
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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For comparison's sake, I did this set on November 1 with a target time of 1:16 and failed at 13,18, and 20. It was a good month in the pool for me. 23 sessions, 25.5 hours, 56,350 yards. //

Thats great, who would have thunk that swimming more makes you faster!! A really quality set, if I ever get 3 a week of 3k for at least 2 weeks I might try it pulling. Those intervals and times would be a real challenge set for me once I get a tiny bit of actual fitness in the water..
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Re: November Swim Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:

Thats great, who would have thunk that swimming more makes you faster!! A really quality set, if I ever get 3 a week of 3k for at least 2 weeks I might try it pulling. Those intervals and times would be a real challenge set for me once I get a tiny bit of actual fitness in the water..

The combination of volume and intensity had a lot to do with it, but I also attended a USMS Stroke Clinic early in the month. When I was having trouble implementing the suggested changes, I switched my breathing side. Since there wasn't nearly as much muscle memory breathing in that direction, I found it easier to make changes. That got me from 1:13.highs to 1:12.lows on that 100's set in just a week.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Monday,
400wu, 100,200,300,400,500,600,700,800,400cd with 30sec +/- between sets for 4400 yd total
Check out my swim on Strava.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1293066032
https://www.movescount.com/moves/move188193911

Thursday
400wu, 100,200,300,400 repeat 4 times and 200cd with 30sec +/- between sets for 4600 yds
Check out my swim on Strava.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1297059077
https://www.movescount.com/moves/move188600513

All nice and easy at a sub 1:40 pace trying to keep HR sub 120
Last edited by: Testament TN: Nov 30, 17 17:16
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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WU: 200ez

MS:
8x50(:20) singlearm
5x100 (:30) odds paddles / evens swim
8x50(30) odds swim / evens swim
5x100(:30) swim

CD: 200ez

2200 scy

All intervals at comfortable pace (1:42 ish) focusing on EVF, finishing evey pull, and keepng kick tight.

November Summary:

15 swims, 27,000 yards.
USRPT pace started at 1:43 failing at #9, #13, #18. As noted yesterday pace: 1:39, failed at #19. So, 4 second improvement, and I'm about to upgrade to 1:35 pace.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 30, 17 18:38
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Re: November Swim Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
For comparison's sake, I did this set on November 1 with a target time of 1:16 and failed at 13,18, and 20. It was a good month in the pool for me. 23 sessions, 25.5 hours, 56,350 yards. //

Thats great, who would have thunk that swimming more makes you faster!! A really quality set, if I ever get 3 a week of 3k for at least 2 weeks I might try it pulling. Those intervals and times would be a real challenge set for me once I get a tiny bit of actual fitness in the water..

Hey Monty...how fast do most triathlete swimmers sprint 25M kick only.....I tried it the other day and could only get down to 28 seconds! I don't think I am "that bad", but I suppose there is a long way to go. By the way, that's around how long it took me to dolphin kick one length underwater. I think I should work on improving both! Another challenge for 2018. This year the challenge was to get better at all strokes and even though my back and breast are kind of sucking, most real swimmers think I must be a real swimmer, so they suck less than a floundering triathlete, so that is an achievement for the year.
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Monty...how fast do most triathlete swimmers sprint 25M kick only.....I tried it the other day and could only get down to 28 seconds//

Well since most triathlete swimmers didn't come from swim backgrounds, not too fast. I could probably do a low to mid 20 second 25m right now, a bit faster if I actually worked on speed. But take dan for instance, pretty good 60+ triathlete swimmer but could not break 55 seconds for that kick(I honestly don't know why he is so slow, just looks like he kicks most the water straight down). We did a short set last week where he wanted to do 8x200 swims on the 3;05. I didn't feel great so I said I would do every other one swim and then 150 kick on the evens, he was surprised I didn't opt for a 100 kick on that interval. He never caught me on my kick ones, but of course they were harder for me than the swims I was just cruising at 2;50. Did the kicks pretty much the same times.


So you are getting at the pointy end of AG triathletes, but of course would be lapped by Phelps by quite a bit!!
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Haven't tried to sprint kick, but I regularly do 2x50scy kick in warmup @1:12 - 1:15 each, so 40ish for 25m. Maybe I'll try a 25y sprint this weekend for fun.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 30, 17 21:37
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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29s for 25y from a push with a board. So 31-32ish for 25m?

ETA: I can imagine that I could eek out maybe another second or so with an absolute, all-out, rooster-tail type effort, because I was not all gasping for air at the end. But, it was a solid "fast" attempt, and I repeated the result after :20 rest.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Dec 1, 17 5:30
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Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I went 21.00 for a 25y kick sprint today. With shorty TYR Burner fins, I was able to do a 15.88.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
I went 21.00 for a 25y kick sprint today. With shorty TYR Burner fins, I was able to do a 15.88.

OK OK....circling back to my underwater dolphining. I am definitely not doing anything dangerous. Today's swim main set was 8x100m, First 25m under water dolphin sprint, second 25m after first 8 min cruise, pick up the speed, next 25m build into a full out fly sprint, then 25m easy kick on my back.....10-20 breaths for recovery, and then repeat. I did 5 with fins and 3 without fins. The ones with fins of course are easier as my underwater dolphin across the pool with shorty fins is 20 seconds or a bit under and without fins depending on how hard I was going it was closer to 30. In any case, it was a fun set. Lots of rest in between the under water dolphin. No short rest.

It's cool that with all of this kick and dolphin I am getting a pretty solid six pack for a 52 year old over trainer! Also noticed in the weight room, I developed some decent quad strength. My leg extensions are up to 20-30 reps with just around 100% body weight (for me 135 lbs to 145 lbs depending on which machine at which gym....I weigh a touch over 140 lbs)

In terms of 25m sprint with kick board, I did not try it today. I have not tried the full rooster tail sprint either. Honestly I don't think I would get down lower than 25 seconds, but I suppose the only way to find out is work on it. I am certain that if I get back to triathlon with all this lower body and core work in the water, I will be a front of pack in my age group on the bike. My legs are well conditioned to the burn you get working the legs hard in the water....no wonder all those swim studs become such strong riders too.
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Re: November Swim Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Hey Monty...how fast do most triathlete swimmers sprint 25M kick only.....I tried it the other day and could only get down to 28 seconds//

Well since most triathlete swimmers didn't come from swim backgrounds, not too fast. I could probably do a low to mid 20 second 25m right now, a bit faster if I actually worked on speed. But take dan for instance, pretty good 60+ triathlete swimmer but could not break 55 seconds for that kick(I honestly don't know why he is so slow, just looks like he kicks most the water straight down). We did a short set last week where he wanted to do 8x200 swims on the 3;05. I didn't feel great so I said I would do every other one swim and then 150 kick on the evens, he was surprised I didn't opt for a 100 kick on that interval. He never caught me on my kick ones, but of course they were harder for me than the swims I was just cruising at 2;50. Did the kicks pretty much the same times.


So you are getting at the pointy end of AG triathletes, but of course would be lapped by Phelps by quite a bit!!

LOL....you beating up on slowman's kick actually improved mine today. As I have leg control issues with my left, leg and applying force like a normal human I noticed during some kick sets that I was kicking the water down with my left shin, whereas wiht the right I was kind of flicking it backwards. So I focused on that, and got my 25M down to 26 seconds today. I THINK if I keep working on this, I can get down to 22 by improving not just the propulsion, but the timing and streamline....it's almost like you want to "catch" the water using the shin as the paddle and throw the water back with the shin and then foot but finish with a streamline (like we would do with fins) vs just slapping turbulent water....thinking like using each leg as a dolphin's body 180 degrees out of phase with the other dolphin body (leg) and using the foot as a tail fin.....am I on the right track?
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