My first thought was OJ. Wasn't he headed to Vegas? jk

No, but seriously, I'm going to guess it was some Muslim ISIS sympathiser with the recent wave of attacks around the world but you never know. It could have been domestic terror. I'm anticipating the Trump tweets from this will involve talk of his immigration ban and the need for more of it and of course no mention of any form of gun control.

Current reports indicate it's a 62 year old Vegas local. Law enforcement is looking for a woman who is his "companion," also 62 years old. Police have the weapon and an identity for the suspect (which the local news here in DC isn't releasing yet, pending confirmation).

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I too thought of OJ when I heard it a few minutes ago. At least 20 dead and hearing the gun shots go off like fireworks is maddening. I thought the hotel windows were bullet and shatterproof. This is indeed domestic terror and will have a great effect on hotel security now.

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_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.

Suspect now identified as Steven Paddock (not sure on spelling) from Mesquite, NV, 64 years old. Police are apparently searching his home now.

Mesquite is a little further away than I would call local (about 80miles), but that's how the news is still describing him.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

It will be interesting to see where he got a true fully automatic rifle. Takes a full background check to buy one legally, but do-it-yourself conversion kits have been available forever.

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I miss YaHey

Shooter reported to be Stephen Paddock (correct spelling per the news), and law enforcement reports that he was killed when the police took his room at the Mandalay Bay.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Updated to 50+ dead... 200+ injured

Yep, just saw that. Incredibly sad.

One of the performers being interviewed on CNN right now. Said shooting went on for 10 minutes. Unreal.

Whatever this turns out to be I've been expecting terrorists to do something like this for years. We are lucky Al Qaeda's strategy has typically been to go for the big, spectacular attacks.
Or maybe it's harder to get your hands on these sorts of weapons than I think it is in the U.S.

Imagine if it was a team of attackers such that the police had to fight their way in to stop the ones shooting into the crowd/streets. Could be hours.

Stephen Paddock: Las Vegas gunman identified by police as 64-year-old white male

Deadliest mass shooting in American history

http://www.independent.co.uk/...update-a7978361.html

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"Your Attitude Determines Your Altitude."

Maybe this will put an end (at least until the next unarmed black shooting by a cop) to all the kneeling in the NFL. I mean, how can you kneel during the anthem after this shit?

Lots of videos on youtube (I’m not going to post any here) of the shooting.

Definitely fully automatic (machine gun) fire.

Sounds like mulitple shooters but that could just echos.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

A mass shooting is tragic but I don't think that it will inspire people who are taking a knee to place their hand over their heart. Not exactly why you think that this shooting should inspire patriotism. A mass shooting is part of American culture. It is the price that America pays for it's freedom to bear arms. Not judging and not calling for any kind of gun control just stating that these shootings happen frequently and nothing has been done to prevent them. So my takeaway is that for the most part people are okay with the risk of being shot because they are not okay with anything that they feel threatens the 2nd Amendment.

They'll find a way.

Maybe Mr Bennett and his hurt feelings will have gained some insight by then as to why LVPD officers responded to reports of an active shooter as they did, when he was briefly detained.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Definitely firing on full auto, not necessarily a machine gun, by strict definition. The police have the weapon, so it will be interesting to see if it was a fully auto or modified assault weapon, or an actual machine gun. Sustained auto fire like that isn't easy to control. The shooter could have had a bipod or something like that to stabilize.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Could this be atifa's big debut into the terrorism big leagues? Just a wild guess. So far what info has been released about the shooter doesnt really lean towards anything .
It was a country music concert that was targeted. Dont know if that was strategic or not. So far the big topic in the news is how this guy got a hold of an automatic weapon. Really?....

    As mentioned, this looks more like the shooter we're used to seeing pre 9-11, angry middle aged white guy, difference being the automatic weapon. Senseless and sad is all I can say in watching it unfold.

what a shitty story to wake up to.

Yes, cause old white dudes who live in retirement communities in the middle of the desert are militant anti fascists...

You'd have a better tree to bark up saying it was an act of a radical FLDS, shooting at women for not being covered. Mesquite borders NW AZ and SE UT, which is the large FLDS area - it's 30-ish miles from St George, UT THE FLDS town

no kidding!

Whatever the case, this guy was good (at killing). I watched the videos on Youtube and these people were sitting ducks. This guy was locked in his room shooting freely at thousands of unarmed people without a worry in the world of being taken down for a good 10 minutes or so according to reports. I'm simply shocked. This was well planned, sick, but well planned. I wouldn't be surprised if this guy had some military background. They'll probably try to keep quiet about it if its CIA or special ops related.

As for kneeling during the anthem, remember after the Paris attacks? Millions of Facebook users changed their profile to have some French flag on it or whatever. Well, why does it have to be Islamic ISIS terror and over 200 deaths for people to show sympathy for another country? I'm going to predict that not a single American flag goes up on some French person's profile.

Sounds like the police have the weapon(s) as in 8+ found in the room.

Just checking in from Fabulous Las Vegas on a tragic day. The festival he chose to shoot into was "only" attended by 30,000+ people. Life Is Beautiful's concert was the preceding week, attended by 10X that many people and the death count could have been much higher.

Figuring out how to keep one million weekly visitors safe is priority one here, so I imagine changes will take place after this.

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DFL > DNF > DNS

Yeah, not really hard to get a bunch of weapons into a hotel. Vegas is a big resort town, so hollow out a golf bag and stash as many as you can fit, and no one would even give it a second thought.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Something tells me Dirt is begging for this to be true. Never too early to throw out some agenda sticky to see if it holds.

Makes you wonder if metal detectors outside the casinos and hotels is a next step--and a logical one at that. It's the reality in many parts of the world already, maybe it's time we in this country say it's worth the extra hassle to be a little more secure.

Dont be stupid. I clearly said that there is no information that points to any direction.

Have you ever been to Vegas?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Nope. I'm sure it's a bunch of interconnected buildings and walkways and open-air venues and whatnot. I'm sure it'd be a nightmare and costly as hell to implement. I also think it'd be a worthwhile investment and it's not like the Vegas casinos are hurting for money.

Don't be stupid, your implication was pretty clear.

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_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Yup, you sure did. We'll agree to disagree whether that absolves what was said before that.

I thought Colorado City was the epicenter of the FLDS. St George seems like a normal city. Colorado City seemed strange.

The shear volume of people going in and out of buildings is staggering.

It would be near impossible and it wouldn’t make it any more secure.

The strip is outside and totally exposed to this type of attack from countless positions that are not inside casinos/hotels.

Last time i was there (couple years ago for a wedding in Henderson) we walked the strip and it was shoulderto shoulder people. I guy in a car could easily shoot or run down 50 or more people.

Or just walk up the line of 5,000 people waiting to fo through security and start shooting...

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Metal detectors would be problematic. All these hotels and casinos have multiple entrances and exits, connect to each other (many on the strip at least), and above and beyond that, you can't just put in detectors. You have to have screeners to handle people going through the detectors, people to handle searches if you set one off, security personnel who can detain people if they're found to have something illegal or that the hotel doesn't want to allow, and a method to get police response in those cases as well. Plus, many people are on vacation and bringing legitimate things that might set off a metal detector. Imagine airport security style lines and lengths to get in and out of your hotel?

I'm not saying it can't be done, but I think the logistical challenges of implementation are greater than one might expect, and I'm not sure what the actual security benefits might be. As Duffy said, you don't really prevent this type of attack with metal detectors. You might just prevent it from happening from inside a hotel, but there are plenty of other places from which you could execute this type of plan.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

It would be nearly impossible to implement. Not totally absurd and impossible but close. There are multiple ingress and egress points in each and every hotel and casino. Remember, these are some of the largest hotels in the world. Six of the top 10 largest hotels, and 15 of the top 25 hotels, in the world are in Vegas. These are massive hotels, most of which have 4,000 to 7,000 rooms in each.

The costs would be astronomical. Yes, these casinos aren't exactly hurting for money but they are businesses after all. This will be seen as a one off incident and not something that materially affects their bottom line. The level of security that you're talking about would be a business decision, and not a humanitarian/safety decision. If and when security threats start dipping way into revenue will the cost/benefit analysis come into play.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

so far the big news on this thread is:

1. how this will affect NFL players taking a knee
2. whether this was antifa's work (which you clearly hoped it was)

i'm sure somebody somewhere is talking about gun laws. but i haven't read it yet in my own reading in NYT, las vegas sun, and a couple of other newspapers. do you think we could have maybe half a day before using this tragedy as ammo to gain the upper hand in an internet forum argument?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

x 2. I was thinking the same thing. The other thing I hate about these things. Normally, when something like this happens, unless you are connected personally to a victim, you will only remember the shooters name. Heck its already blasted all over the media. I know this has been brought up before and probably wont be the last.

What does this shooting have to do with kneeling during the anthem?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Nothing. But apparently one tragedy is supposed to make you stop caring about other issues?

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Its amazing how many weak minded idiots have fallen under the spell of right-wing-nuts like that InfoWars guy and perpetuate or fantasize about these conspiracy theories

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Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

Haven't seen someone question the shooter's religion, yet. There is a gun thread already.

Just a note: the hotel is, on average, 450 meters away from the concert site. That's not a trivial distance. The police say the shooter is not a military veteran but I have a hard time believing that he did not have some sort of advanced training.

What kind of advanced training do you suppose he would need?

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Innocent people getting shot? Yes, but no.

Well, the country is supposed to be in morning after 50+ people have been gunned down and over 400 injured. So if some black guy wants to take a knee over his BLM SJW cause, I'd say its "tone def" because thats not what people are thinking about when the anthem is played. Heck, Puerto Rico should be enough to get these guys off their knees unless they want to protest that too.

How difficult is it to put hundreds of rounds of automatic gunfire into a crowd of tens of thousands in a small and confined space and hit lots of people?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

how about in the second post of the thread?

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

So the anthem is to pay respects to your country... nope... pay respects to the millitary... nope... think about victims of shootings... It's hard to keep up.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

As Dan said, can we leave this childishness aside? This incident and NFL protests have little to nothing to do with each other. I'd recommend not engaging in tri-kid's trolling.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

No, but in the instant gratification social media type of world we now live in, the most recent tragedy trumps (no pun intended) the previous one, especially if it involves a significantly larger number of casualties and the victims are American or European. 500 people could die in some bombing in Iraq or Turkey and no one gives a shit or changes their Facebook profile.

I'm talking about Bennett in particular. The connection is direct and fairly obvious.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Shooter's brother is saying he had no known political or religious affiliations. Just a guy who managed a retirement community. Seems like the girlfriend ought to be able to provide some insight. Can't imagine she wasn't aware the weapons were in the room, even if she had nothing to do with the shooting.

It appears that the star spangled banner now exists for the sole purpose of determining which side you stand on, relative to some cause du jour.

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"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

Yeah, there's a thread all about that nonsense.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I will take your advice. Good day to you sir.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

We had at least 10 people from my department there. Two work directly for me. They are okay. My running partner, best friend, who is closer than a brother to me and is a detective on our department, was at the concert with his wonderful wife. They saw three people standing next to them go down. They are on their way home now. She's a wreck of course. He was SWAT for a long time and is okay, but freaked out his wife had to go through that.

The hardest part is trying to describe how I feel about this. Obviously horrible for the victims, glad my people are okay. There's a cross on a very high hill a couple of miles from here. Brutal run to get there. Gotta go pray up there. No, it's not the guns fault. There's sin in the land and with it comes messed up people. He could have done more damage with a truck. It's his fault and his alone!

Trolling? I think you'll hear about it in the media, perhaps some on-line newspaper or even some mainstream one in the next few days about how this shooting will effect the kneeling. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't, I'm just saying what will happen. I'll post them. Send you the links. If no one in the mainstream media mentions it, I'll even admit to trolling but I guarantee you the association will be made quite soon.

So go post in the anthem thread.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Too soon. How about some time to digest what took place in Las Vegas before making it about protest, NFL,POTUS or whatever else.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

Here is your first taste of the trolling...https://www.longroom.com/...-these-guys-stood-up

This is how people think. Even if the shooting has nothing to do with the anthem protests, this is how Americans think.

The cynic in me thinks that when I the conversation does shift to gun laws (and our ability and/or willingness to enforce them), it will be just talk and debate. Given that we weren't able to make any progress after the Sandy Hook shooting which represents what is probably the most tragic situation you could imagine, i don't think we we will make any progress after this. Just like nothing changed after Orlando or the shooting at the senate softball game, and nothing will change after the next one. The two sides are too far apart, the lobbiests and gun owners are two devout to protecting their rights and no one wants to give up an inch no matter how many times this happens. I find it sad and frustrating.

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Matt

I do think this is a special circumstance, given the timing and location of this tragedy. These same LVPD cops were derided as racists by Michael Bennett not a month ago, the protests in the NFL are specifically around LEO treatment of black men (among other things, income inequality being the other biggie), the tapes around the Bennett incident were released a few days ago and now these cops were doing their duty with an active shooter firing full auto on a crowd of 30,000 sitting ducks.

So it's a little relevant, in this case.

So go post in the anthem thread.

That was my only point in referencing Bennett earlier. This, hopefully, adds a little context to his experience. It's no fucking picnic for officers trying to identify and secure potential threats to the public, and personally, I don't give a shit if you're caught up in the sweep, briefly and safely, while the threat is being neutralized. The average person has no idea how difficult that job is, and to compound the problem by hurling accusations of racism and bigotry at these officers--who, without them, god only knows how many more dozens would have been killed in that same police district last night--is grossly irresponsible. Maybe it shouldn't affect people's motivation for protesting, but there's good reason for people to reflect on their positions with regard to police and how dangerous situations, by necessity, are handled by law enforcement officers.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Congrats. You win douchebag of the day!

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===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

It's really hard to figure out motive. Old white guy firing into a country music festival just doesn't check any of the boxes in the usual mass shooting checklist.

My SJW relative is already in full "THIS IS TERRORISM!!!" mode, railing about white male Americans being let off easy.

Insert your own agenda here:_________. It's like a choose your own adventure book.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Ok, I get it. Lets discuss shooters possible motives, security concerns, etc. Not trying to troll or hijack the thread.

Here’s some wild speculation...

He wasn’t the shooter. Someone enters him room, kills him (made to look like suicide), shoots the crowd then escapes.

Again, wild speculation, but not impossible.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Going with Unabomber anti-government type, Trump Derangement Syndrome (due to target demographics) , or lost is his life savings gambling and wants to punish Las Vegas (o same theme anti-gambling religious nut).

Maybe a throwback to the original mass shooting from the Texas Bell Tower. Sometimes people have organic brain diseases that make them psychotic, paranoid, etc. Maybe he lost a ton of money in Vegas and was "getting back" at the town. People have all kinds of illogical thought processes.

Who knows at this point?

Sounds like a book, but can't dismiss it. That's the scariest scenario to me.

If you fiddle on Google Earth, the cone of fire is about seven degrees. He was shooting in a low-light, low-contrast environment. I have a hard time believing he drew that many casualties though volume of fire alone. Automatic weapons are not easy to keep on target.

He did have elevation working in his favor.

Pretty sure hotel security footage would be able to rule this option out very quickly.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Certainly does not fit the profile. Reports this a.m. said he has no social media presence, which will make it harder.

Finally heard from my son in Vegas about 2 minutes ago. Been trying to reach him for the past 3 hours. Worst 3 hours of my life.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

We'll probably never find out, but I wonder if any of the housekeepers noticed anything unusual. The shooter arrived on Thursday, so I assume the housekeepers came into the room sometime over the last three days. Even if there was a "Do Not Disturb" card on the door the entire time, I assume they at least knocked on the door in order to talk to the occupants and make sure everything was OK. (If not, they should, just in case someone's dead or the room is being trashed.)

Might not be so outlandish (though the escape part is hard to reconcile). No manifesto found, no military history... nothing. Also, while there are a lot of conflicting reports out there, it appears initially there were only two or three distinct shots fired before the automatic fire began.

Glad he's ok.

My best man and his wife go to Vegas a couple times a year and always stay at Mandalay Bay. Found out they were there last week but are home safe. Took about 15 min. to hear back from them this morning and had a sick to my stomach feeling the whole time. Can't imagine if it was my kid and a 3 hour period.

Automatic weapons are not easy to keep on target.

He didn't have to keep on target - they were packed in shoulder to shoulder, he just had to point in the general direction and keep the trigger pulled till the magazine was empty. He had multiple rifles in the room with him, so at that point he would either just change weapons or change magazines in about 2 seconds.

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I miss YaHey

Before?

Could shots that killed the “shooter”?

In my mind, the crazy scenario that I posted is as least as likely as this guy just deciding to do this...

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

It checks the most common element: mental illness.

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----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Glad you try to hold STers to,a higher standard

Democrats swiftly renewed their push for gun control within hours of the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history, with congressional Democrats urging legislation and Hillary Clinton going after the National Rifle Association. | Fox News

http://fxn.ws/2xajsyN

Easily hacked. You don't read enough fiction :)

Mental illness certainly covers the most bases; with or without a distinguishable motive.

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"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

We don't know that yet. And by that I mean we have no indication that he showed recognizable signs of mental illness prior to this obviously insane massacre.

I recall reading something somewhere that going back over all the mass shootings we've had in the U.S. that mental illness wasn't actually all that common, which is probably even more disturbing.

There's a gun control thread for this stuff.

Grab a laser pointer and point it at a wall. Have someone jostle you rather aggressively. Try to keep it in a narrow cone of fire. It's not trivial.

Considering cameras are everywhere inside a casino, this would have taken minutes to figure out.

One story I heard earlier mentioned he'd sued a Vegas casino 2 or 3 years ago and settled. No mention of what the lawsuit was over.

ISIS is now claiming responsibility. Claiming the shooter converted to Islam months before the shooting. Not sure I buy that story.

His girlfriend is of Indonesian decent....

But, yeah, seems unlikely.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

With the latest updates as to death toll and injuries, this mass shooting has now become the deadliest in modern US history.

The shooter, from news reports, was possibly in the midst of a divorce. I don't want to speculate as to motive, but would rather concentrate on the poor people who lost their lives.

God bless them and keep their families safe at this time of deepest darkest sorrow.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Right. Have we seen or heard reports of security footage showing this guy holding a bag that could carry all those weapons?

Considering cameras are everywhere this would have taken minutes to figure out.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I completely agree and suspect we will hear something about this soon. It would be extremely unusual for him to show no prior signs and just "snap." But, I suspect subtle signs will be pieced together that, in hindsight, gave some indication of mental illness.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Pretty wild. That'd make more sense if like it was an assassination of a single high-profile person. JKF type deal.

Or just a run of the mill terrorist attack.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Sounds like complete BS. Opportunistic BS to boot.

But even if he did convert to Islam a few months ago, no one in their right mind goes from 0-Jihadi assassin that fast. "Right mind" being the key thing.

Honestly, this sounds more like the 1984 San Ysidro McDonalds shooting, at least in the way the shooter conducted business. James Huberty entered the store fully armed and ready to kill, and proceeded to do so.

Huberty's life was spinning out of control at that point, and he determined to go out in what he perceived to be a blaze of glory, I guess. I have no idea what motivated this Las Vegas shooter, but some reports say he was in the midst of a divorce, and owned a relatively expensive home, at least for his income level. Perhaps it all became just too much for him?

Again, I have no idea what motivated this gentleman nor why he selected that venue and proceeded to fire on innocents from 30 stories above. Perhaps it was the softest target he could think of at that point?

Some news reports also say that he had 10 rifles lined up in his hotel room, each fully charged with a magazine, and that he generated so much gunpowder smoke from firing so rapidly that the room's smoke detectors went off. He also had set up some sort of video surveillance that could tell him when the police were closing in.

All of this, combined with the fact that he may have used fully automatic weapons, suggest that a lot of planning went into his act.

I've said it before: some people just want to watch the world burn.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

That's second most common element; The most common element in mass shootings being possession of firearm(s).

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Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

I'm struck by how far the hotel is from the Music festival. For some reason I pictured it right above where the people were located.

I have had the news on in my office most of the morning. Every time I turn around the casualty numbers keep climbing. Horrible, just truly horrible. 58 killed and over 500 wounded. Can't imagine the grief some woke up to today.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

Ask Dirtnap. Antifa.

This is the best I can work out: cone of fire north to south was about twenty degrees. East to west was closer to five degrees. So long as he had some rudimentary knowledge, he may not have had any formal training.

I was up late last night when this came on. When I went to bed they were talking about 2 dead. I'm sitting here today kind of numb. I'd really rather read and talk about anything but this.

And I'm really feeling like punching people in the nose who are being assholes about it right now. It is a good thing I can't reach through the internet.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

he generated so much gunpowder smoke from firing so rapidly that the room’s
I would bet he wasn’t ready for the choking smoke. It probably caught him by surprise and slowed him down . he may have even panicked.

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sometimes

I am pretty sure that in the event of 10's of thousands in a confined space and assuming an individual were not blind and had sufficient physical capacity to point and pull a trigger they could cause chaos........in those circumstances how much training is really needed

Geez, that's a pretty long shot.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Not really, especially when you are aiming at a crowd as opposed to a single person. If the shooter was aiming for the performer, and hit one, I would agree he had some training. But, anyone can point at a crowd and pull a trigger.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

People don't fully grasp how fine a line it is between normal and crazy. Like you said It could be something like a newly formed tumor that can radically effect your behavior. That is what scares me about the "screening" for firearms. It cannot detect that you are going to lose your mind in 5 years. It is as doing a limited assessment of behavior at that point in time.

Geez, that's a pretty long shot.

That was my reaction too. Given that distance, there are a lot of situations where a single shooter could do a lot of damage.

Early reports said he was an "avid hunter." That would be more than enough weapons familiarity to pull this off.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

400 yards to the front of the stage per google.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

In Army basic training, newbies who have never fired a rifle before have to shoot a pop up target 300 yards away using only iron sights. 400 yards from an elevated vantage point with a scope is not very difficult, especially when firing into a crowd instead of a single target.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

What good is a scope on full auto?

(ETA: I'm not trying to be a dick)

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

On a single target? Useless. In a crowd? It keeps the barrel in the general direction necessary to inflict maximum damage.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

You would need something higher caliber like .308 to kill this many, right? Raining down .223 doesn't seem like it would kill 58 people at 400 yards.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Not necessarily. If it was a SAW (m249) effective range for a point target is 600 m and for an area target 800 m and it fires a 5.56 round.

For an M16, max effective range for a point target is 602 yards (550 m) and for an area target 875 yards (800 m) firing 5.56.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

.223 would be plenty lethal at that range. Even a .22LR could kill at that range if you spray into a crowd and hit the right spots a few times. It did sound to me like a larger caliber however.

When you push and push for people to think a specific way, those who are unable to think for themselves will follow. As others have said, go post there, that shit doesn't need to be here.

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_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

He shot the windows out then started to fire.

Glad your son is ok.

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_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Thank you. Shitty way to start the day!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Praying and spraying would have been just as effective, and most likely that's what he did. The ordinal down into the crowd from that height is easy as pie. The ballistics of a round traveling from that height and downward, my guess is they impacted with serious force. All of those people packed into a small space, relatively speaking, with nowhere to run and nowhere to hide in such a small amount of time, and he had his Devils recipe for mayhem and murder, damn his soul.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Initial reports from police scanners was they thought there were multiple gunmen in different casinos. If they got to him in 10 minutes I'm impressed, or, did he kill himself after 10 minutes of shooting. Can you imagine trying to figure out where the shots were coming from, in the dark, then figuring out what floor and actually getting up there. Unless someone around the hotel room he was in alerted the right people.

From what I read he killed himself when the police blew the door to the room open.

He has to be 400 feet high +- in that building.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Elevation affects drop but has a minimal impact on retained energy. With 5.56x45, at the southern portion of the concert area the round would have had 400-500ft/lbs of energy which is more than enough to kill. At the northern extent of the concert area the rounds would have had ~150ft/lbs of energy (going off GoogleEarth and memory here). Could that kill? Yes but it also might not break the skin if you're wearing several layers of clothes.

Where did you hear that ? I thought they've been saying he broke the window with a "hammer Like" tool.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

You gotta be kidding me. This guy lived in Mesquite, NV. Prior to that, he lived in Mesquite, TX. That's an interesting coincidence.


10:27 a.m.
Police from the Dallas suburb of Mesquite, Texas say the suspect in the worst mass shooting in recent U.S. history lived there from 2004 to 2012.
Lt. Brian Parish says property records show Stephen Craig Paddock, 64, indicated he lived there during the period but that public records suggested he may have lived in the suburb longer.
Parrish said Monday that Paddock owned at least three rental properties.
Parrish also says Mesquite police have found no indications that officers had contact with Paddock.
Nevada police have said Parrish was most recently living in that state’s city of Mesquite near the state line with Arizona.


https://apnews.com/...-in-Las-Vegas-attack

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Washington Post is saying he was a high stakes "professional" gambler

glad the boy is OK. FWIW my evaluation is crank trigger.

I was born and raised in Milford, DE. If I lived about 5 miles north of where I do I'd be living in Milford, ME. And the kicker, my mother-in-laws maiden name is...Milford!

I heard earlier that they were able to find him so quickly because the smoke coming from the guns set off the smoke detector in his room. Not sure if this is true or not.

Dad of shooter was bank robber on fbi most wanted list at one point and described as psychopathic.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Smoke detector alarm pointed them quickly to the correct room.

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----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

One of my favorite things my wife and I do is go watch live music and that will NOT change. We were there last night.

I have one ask that I doubt some will not grant but please don't make this political for a few days, instead simply send your prayers to everyone affected. Fortunately, my wife and I are ok but many others are not so fortunate.

Lots of heroism and people helping people. Thank you to the Police and all first responders, you were professional and amazing.

I suppose that is luck as it could have continued longer.

Also just kind of in passing heard during his brothers rant that he was rich? Have no idea what gun he used, apparently had 10 of them with him, but earlier there was some speculation that a real fully automatic was probably too expensive. Not for him apparently.

Brother really does seem dumfounded about the whole thing, but of course even brothers are not privy to someones inner demons...

I speak to my brother once or twice a year, if that.

No reason for it, we are just two totally different people with almost nothing in common.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I guess because I don't have all that much contact with my brothers (see them at the holidays, maybe exchange texts a few times during the year otherwise), it always surprises me when siblings come out with the, "I had no idea..."

I always think how would you?

Glad that you and your wife are okay.

He owned at least two properties and two airplanes (he was a pilot).

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----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Holy shit. Glad you're ok.

One of my employee's best friends was there with his girlfriend. Said the person next to them went down, then they started scrambling. I couldn't imagine.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

There doesnt' seem to be any easy motive for why he did this if he indeed had a lot of money ( airplanes and properties) had no criminal history himself and no known mental health issues yet discovered. If he was a pilot and passed his FAA physical each year its likely no history of mental health issues either.

Scary that someone so seemingly normal could do this type of thing. The Sandy Hook shooter was a much easier story to put together as just a severely sick individual but this guy doesn't seem to fit the mold.

Waiting to see what comes out.

Think of the carnage that could have been done if he'd have crashed an airplane (full of fuel) into that crowd. As strange as it seems, the auto weapons may have been the lesser of the possible evils.

hard to even imagine being There! Glad y'all made it out ok!!

Turns out we had way more than we thought at this event. Possibly over 30 (it's a short drive from SoCal). At this point we have one Deputy Sheriff in critical condition and one Correctional Deputy who was injured, treated, and released. Prayers appreciated.

Sorry. Terrible.

I’ve got nothing to say..

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Or a thermonuclear device....

?

Did he own a thermonuclear device?

You're aware he owned two planes, right?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Glad you're okay, that's some heavy shit to digest.

I heard one witness who called into a radio show say something to the effect of, thank god it was a country show, because there were (who he believed to be, I guess) "military and first responder types" off duty in the crowd, putting fingers in bullet holes all around him, demonstrating a level of heroism and bravery he still can't process.

Talk to friends and family as often as possible. This will stick with you for a while.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Agreeed. We have a ton of family and friends in vegas. It took 2 hours to account for them all this morning

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

You forgot the suspicions of ISIS or some other radical muslims.


Old white guy in a conservative part of the country shoots up a bunch of other white people and people still want to figure out how the left, muslims, or blacks can be wrong.



Regardless of who or what is responsible, this is tragic.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

A CBS Vice President feels differently (about country music fans). Well, an ex-CBS Vice President. Facebook "outs" another one.



http://www.foxnews.com/...bly-republicans.html

Glad they acted quickly. That shit has to go.

wow...

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�There ought to be something very special about the boundary conditions of the universe, and what can be more special than that there is no boundary?�- Stephen Hawking

Definitely praying, I wish I had words to make it all better but I know that’s not how it works. I’ll keep you and your friends and loved ones in my thoughts and prayers.

Holy crap, that's insane.

What an idiot.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Where are you getting that? There has been none of that in this thread that I saw. The only mention of ISIS in this thread was that ISIS claimed responsibility, and the responses after that actually thought that was very unlikely.

ETA: I think there was *one* post in this entire thread that surmised it might be an antifa activist, and that was it.

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___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

A CBS Vice President feels differently (about country music fans). Well, an ex-CBS Vice President. Facebook "outs" another one. //

No kidding, I'm beginning to think there might just be a defective gene in some people that have no filter whatsoever, even to their darkest thoughts. And it seems to reside in politicians, entertainers, sports figures, and successful business and corporate folks..Maybe it is the same gene all the serial cheaters have too...It would be shocking, if it didn't happen so frequently....

Here is a video that you can hear the initial two bursts of gun shots pretty clearly. It sounds like two different calibers to me.

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

thankful that I do not possess this gene! I know a few who do though.

How fucking stupid can you be?

Just imagine if her filter did work and she thought that was a perfectly legitimate post to make?

scary thought! Completely possible though.

"Where are you getting that? There has been none of that in this thread that I saw. The only mention of ISIS in this thread was that ISIS claimed responsibility, and the responses after that actually thought that was very unlikely.

ETA: I think there was *one* post in this entire thread that surmised it might be an antifa activist, and that was it. "


Post #2: ISIS Muslim Sympethizer
Post #11: "I've been expecting Muslim terrorists to do this for years."
Post #14: "maybe this will put an end to all the kneeling in the NFL"
Post #16: Responds to 14, but in a not very judgemental way so I wouldn't count this
Post #17: Responds to 14 with a small dose of judgement
Post# 19: Antifa
Post #24: Brings up kneeling again, finds a way to complain about the French


I posted after Slowman did at #39

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Agreed. They all seem to have a bit of sociopath in them.

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War is god

To be fair complaining about the French shouldn't count

So, pretty much what I said. There was one post about ISIS, and one post about antifa. And one person (same one who brought up ISIS the first time in post #2) made a smart ass remark about NFL kneeling, which had nothing to do the shooting nor is anyone trying to blame blacks for it, which is what you implied. The VAST majority of the thread has had ZERO to do with trying to blame any group.

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___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Old Hickory can be pretty fucking stupid, but I don't see what he has to do with any of this. /pink

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Yea I saw that. My only response to it is sorrow that there are people like that on both sides of the aisle.

3 points to hufflepuff

The company you keep. Her friend's response was a bit out of line as well. Sad thing is you know there are a lot of people out there with those same thoughts. Sick world.

6 out of the first 24 posts is 25%. Keep in mind, 5 of those were AFTER we knew it was a crazy old white man. Meanwhile 0% of the posts were blaming many of the more realistic usual suspects.


When a crazy old white man shoots up a bunch of people with an automatic weapon, I'd like to see that % to be much lower. Maybe you have a lower standard than I do.

FWI, Dan made the original comment. I only added the two muslim posts to it. Maybe you'd like to take it up with him.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Sad thing is you know there are a lot of people out there with those same thoughts. Sick world.

I think that with social media outlets like Twitter and Facebook, people have lost their ability to filter, they write the first thing that comes to their minds.

The scary part is not the few who have been publicly outed but the millions who likely think the same.

Christianity! The religion of peace.

And we have a late submission for dbag post of the day.

All of which were shut down almost immediately, and as I stated previously, two of the posts were made by the same indiividual. And given that person's politics, I'm pretty sure the anthem posts were completely tongue-in-cheek. NO ONE made any implication whatsoever that blacks were to blame for this in any way. Your post that "people were blaming the left, muslims, and blacks" is not even remotely true. 1 person blamed ISIS and made a comment about the anthem; one person blamed antifa.

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___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Here's what I think, and this isn't directed at you, my friend:

#1. Right now, we have no idea what this man's motivations were.

#2. Right now, we really don't know anything about associations, affiliations or other links to and from this man.

#3. All available information, which is conflicted, paints a very confused picture. To me, at least, he doesn't fit the classic bio of a straight-up mass shooter.

#4. Those poor people who lost their lives or were injured (some critically and grievously) should be first and foremost in our thoughts.

#5. Time enough for the recriminations and finger-pointing, once we know more about the shooter, his motivations, and how he obtained the means to carry out his attack, which was pure evil. May he rot in hell.

Stories of the heroism and sacrifice of those within the crowd and among law enforcement, public safety and medical personnel at the scene of the attack are already legion and growing even more numerous by the hour. We should celebrate those people above all else as well as mourn the deaths of the innocent and pray for the speedy recovery of the injured.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

X2. Which is why I get worked up when people start throwing around baseless accusations.

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___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Don't know what bug crawled up your ass. Maybe you, too, are motivated to shift the focus. Old white guy shoots up a lot of people.....uh.....hey look at BarryP! He's doing something wrong.


Dan made the original comment. I replied to it and added that Muslims were also indicted in the thread, which he missed.


I then added:

"Old white guy in a conservative part of the country shoots up a bunch of other white people and people still want to figure out how the left, muslims, or blacks can be wrong."

Nowhere in that statement did I say that it was the majority of the thread, or that it was all people, or any such nonsense. I said "people." I don't think 25% of the posts are insignificant once you consider that antifa, muslims, and blacks had absolutely nothing to do with anything.

And I didn't say "blaming" I said "wrong." Much like right now you are trying to figure out how *I'm* wrong, Tri_kid was trying yo focus the attention on what the kneelers (black people) were doing wrong. Good grief, its as if you didn't even read the thread.

Now here's a question for you. Did you actually just read what I just wrote with any attempt at trying to see what I'm coming from? Or did you skim through thinking, "Ok, ok.....I'm sure he's wrong somewhere. If only I can figure it out. Ahhh, fuck it. I didn't really pay attention anyway. I'll just post what I thought he was going to say anyway."


Hey, at least we're not blaming Obama anymore. Baby steps.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

You're right, you said wrong, not blaming. My bad. What crawled up my ass? Perhaps I just don't understand why you must immediately jump into a thread like the self-appointed conscience of the LR to make a point that really didn't need to be made because, like I said before, it was a grand total of like 3 people who said anything about the anthem or ISIS or Muslims. Yet you make it sound like every white person on here is trying to do just that:

"Old white guy in a conservative part of the country shoots up a bunch of other white people and people still want to figure out how the left, muslims, or blacks can be wrong."

A very few posts out over a 100 had anything to do with that statement.

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___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

-
You're "spot" on on the Barry front, but I'll give him some solace, and admit that my first thoughts were a disgruntled (probably middle-aged) white guy, or ISIS sympathizer. The latter due to the two attacks the day before in Canada and France, and the mission of Muslim radicals to bring the fear and fight to the west. No sense in arguing with him, you're a racist...as are most of the folks here in the LR, just so that does not get forgotten in this whole sad (and unrelated) story.

I can't imagine what it must have been like at the Las Vegas trauma centres. Five hundred injured the majority gunshot wounds. Even spread out over three or four major hospitals it had to be shocking.

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

From a NYT article:

"The next step was to open up more places to receive them — a recovery room, a preoperative area, and an ambulatory surgery center were staffed and made ready. A separate place was set aside for the patients with unsurvivable injuries to receive comfort care until they died."

That last line is tough. Can't even imagine.

Dick.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I have to assume that would be career ending. At least it should be.

I'll say it for the third time now. I responded to Dan's comment. I literally skimmed through, saw that Dan had observed something that I also observed, and then replied to his comment about it. This was before (up to the point where I had read) anyone had shut it down.

Sorry, there's a handful of people in here who has to look for a reason why one of those groups is to blame *anytime* a story comes up. Do you think that's tiring? Put yourself in my shoes, that being the shoes who is someone who is more annoyed by the constant subtle (or not so subtle) bigotry in this forum than I am with someone pointing it out.

Oh, and as you said, it was shut down. What was shut down? Oh.....there was something to shut down? Gee, imagine that. So shutting it down you don't have a problem with, but me pointing out that there's something that should be shut down is? Interesting.





*I'm* not making it sound like that. YOU are making me sound like that in your own head. I've told you three times now exactly what my point was, and you keep flipping back to what I "mad it sound like." I made it sound like exactly what I wrote, which I've explained to you three times now.

This is a common theme in here. I write something, and there's a reasonable way to interpret it and a ridiculous way to interpret it. I then spend a page or two trying to explain that, no, it was definitely the reasonable way and the usual suspects dig their heels in and insist that it must be the ridiculous way despite the fact that I a) explicitly say that its the reasonable way and b) its RIDICULOUS to say ridiculous things, so why the fuck would I do that?!


My guesses are either there's a lot of guilt underlying the fact that this forum consistently cares far more about the annoyances of minorities than they do with the problems that minorities deal with, or the fact that I constantly jab people in the ribs about it and am a bit of a cocky dick when I do it, and people really just want to put me in my place.....or some combination there of.

Regardless, I may annoy you, but at least lets stick to what I actually said and meant.


"A very few posts out over a 100 had anything to do with that statement. "

I replied to the 39th post. Again......lets keep the facts straight. If you have any more problem, please do me a favor and stop replying to me and direct your attention to Dan who's post I replied to.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Please, just stop.

Seriously, man. Just stop.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

She will have a place at the DNC.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

That's not what I'm hearing. I'm hearing an irregular cyclic rate (again, likely a crank trigger) and a microphone that's struggling.

"Honey, you seem upset. What is it?"
"This guy on the internet pointed out that even though a crazy white guy shot up a place, people were trying to shift the focus to the problems with minorities."
"Well was he right?"
"Sigh.....yeah........but that's not the point!"
"Well what's the point?"
"Well, I just feel like he's always throwing it in my face."
"What did you do?"
"Well.....I uh.....well.......I completely twisted his words and over exaggerated what he did, but he stuck to his guns and, well, it turned out he was actually right......again."
"So what now."
"Well, Dave reminded me that Barry thinks everyone's a racist, which isn't really true, but it sure does make me feel a lot better when I say it."
"Well, he did bring it up on a thread that had nothing to do with race."
"Yeah.....uh, well......he was responded directly about other people who brought up race, plus it technically was a reply to someone else who pointed it out. But.....he did reply to it on a thread who's OP was not about race. He always does that!"
"But then didn't you and Dave reply to him to keep the conversation going?"
"Hmmm............are you suggesting some sort of sense of irony or something?"
"Forget it honey. He thinks everyone's a racist. Now get some sleep. *smooch*"

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Anybody think this may be a scorned lover scenario? The girlfriend was Marilou Danley. Danley started living with Paddock in 2013. She and her husband, Geary Danley jointly filed for divorce in February 2015.

Marilou Danley is an Australian citizen, born in the Philippines. She is currently traveling to the Philippines.

Perhaps she told him it was over and left. He was broken up about it and decided to inflict the same pain on others.

I know I am spit balling here, but it is as good a motive as anything else right now.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Anti-Trump rally attenders are the usual suspects when it comes to mass shootings???

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

jD21 already solved it a couple of posts ago. Try to keep up.

I heard a doozy today. Shooter was actually anti-2nd amendment. Figured there was a high percentage of 2A proponents at a country music festival. Wanted to show them/US no matter how many people you arm, there's always going to be a way to inflict max damage with victims having no chance of stopping them.

That's Duffy level conspiracy theory thinking right there.

News reports are now saying authorities discovered several bump stocks in the shooter's room. Don't know if that's true or not as yet, though.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

I was thinking the same after her photo was released and news that she is a woman sought by the police. I heard she is/was in Tokyo heading back to America now. The brother has his thoughts but Marilou will give a lot of insight on what the hell lead up to this massacre.

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_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.

I spare you an hour of your time launching into another multi paragraph nonsensical tirade and delete my post. If there’s any truth to it the media will bring it forth.

Interesting NPR interview that indicates there are going to be a lot of heroism stories. Apparently first responders weren't allowed on site for a really long time. Until the site was officially declared safe. So there were civilian concert-goers effectively doing CASEVAC, moving people from the concert venue to where EMTs could see them. The guy who was interviewed said he saw some guys make 4-5 trips back into the concert, carrying person after person out. Pretty amazing.

Another interesting story is that hotel security apparently confronted the gunman very quickly. But the gunman fired through the door as they tried to enter, so they retreated to wait for SWAT.

Yeah, one of the usual interviews with an "expert" said a common theme with most mass killers is some sort of personal loss. Whether money, job, relationship, etc. Whether ISIS or not.

The only two running theories that make any sense are massive gambling loss and/or relationship loss. Really doesn't appear political or religious.

Next thing you'll do is insult me by calling me "college boy," or "book nerd."



And if that happens, you'll come back here and make me eat crow, forgetting that the question was not whether or not he's an anti-trumper, but the idea that anti-trumper's are "the usual suspects" when it comes to mass shootings.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Sorry to hear of your experience. Glad you are okay and sorry for the others.

Out of respect I'll bow out of the thread.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I won’t come back and say anything and I hope it’s not true. He a psychopath regardless what set him off and I shouldn’t have posted what I did - it’s actually out of character for me to do so. I didn’t appreciate your posts on this thread and I let it cloud my judgement which I regret.

FWIW - I didn’t intend to state anti-trumpers were the usual suspects - I meant that terrorists are the usual suspects. That’s what I get for typing a post before thinking it through.

Duffy is that you? Damn druid...

Jesus Christ, the guy was in Vegas. Couldn't he just bang hookers for 7 days straight instead of this shit?