Looks really tough to pick that relay. Nobody looks clearly ahead of the field. Australia looks the strongest top to bottom, but that anchor leg is so important it is hard to bet against a Brownlee. Spain and South Africa both have a weaker women's spot but if they are in contention at the 4th leg they could certainly win. As for the US, I think they could put together 2 teams with podium potential, but it might be tough for either to grab a win. In any case it should be an interesting race.

Well put Dumples! Hard to disagree with any of that.

This will be my 2nd year to spectate the race. Missed 16, but was there in 15 when Luis led France dominated the field. Looking at the start lists today & noticed they're only bringing 1 lady. (who just became my new triathlon crush) That's dissapointing from a competition perspective.

CC

The men's race ought to be really intense with Alarza, Mola and Gomez already with substantial points and Jonny gunning for his share. Neither Varga nor Shaw are on the start list so perhaps Jonny will take initiative again to lead the swim. I bet he'll be right up the very front near the end of the bike after that transpired in Yokohama. The run's going to be one heck of a drag race to watch. They're calling for cool cloudy conditions with a fair chance of rain which team GB should be happy for.

I'm happy to see Sophie Coldwell back for this race. She and Flora really put on a great TTT at Yokohama and it could be interesting if Jessica Learmonth and Lucy Hall got in on the bike action. If the rain does come those girls are solid enough bikers that they might just get away. If Flora is on the form she's shown almost all of the last year she'll likely have one more in the W column.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Duffy has looked great this year but it is hard to tell to what extent her running has improved versus a down turn in the rest of the field. The best 4 Brits and Jorgensen have been consistently 1-2 notches better than Duffy on the run, and they are all absent this year. The best we have are some splits against ladies like Ueda, Gentle, Zaferes. Duffy has compared favorably to all those. One thing seems clear though: Duffy runs better than most off a hard bike and does best when she is able to dictate the race tactics. I thinks she wins this weekend but has to run head to head with someone better than she has run against so far this year.

are you talking about the duffy of the past year or the duffy from before that because duffy has been every bit as fast as the UK women on the run post rio? she outran all of them when it mattered in cozumel last year:

http://wts.triathlon.org/...final_cozumel/281502

only non beat her by 16 seconds on the run in yokohama but she had a 2 minute lead and wasn't exactly sprinting in at the finish:

http://wts.triathlon.org/...hlon_yokohama/307210

both of these bikes were flat and hardly exhausting.

I mean that Duffy has been running great since post-Rio, but that all the fastest ladies in the build up to Rio have not run as fast as they were in Rio and in the months leading up to it. Duffy beats Jorgensen by 1 minute in Cozumel, clearly a good result but not both ladies at their best. This year has yet to see any of the Brits racing in shape and uninjured.

it looks like JB is a scratch for hamburg. is he hurt? would he skip the individual race on saturday and just anchor the relay?

Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IIRC he needed Hamburg to fill in his dance calendar of 5 races in the regular season. This will really make it tough to defeat Spanish armada. It's too bad as it would have been a heck of a race.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Relay predictions: Aus, Esp, USA, RSA, Aut, Gbr, Fra, Ger in that order

how can you pick spain over the usa when spain's women are crippling?

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

Sorry just realised this thread was done before mine, maybe the mods could merge the two?

Other than the Grand Final (can't remember what Brit women actualy raced in that) I don't remember Duffy out running any top Brit women, as pointed out there hasn't been an inform Stanford/Jenkins/Holland/Stimpson this season.

He was advised by a doctor to sit it out which is a shame as he'd just finished a training camp with a few others (Royle was one, dont think Ali was there) and looked like he was blowing everyone else away on the sprints.

From his twitter feed-

"Not been 100% since Spain. Gutted to miss Hamburg. Following doctors orders. Need to find out why i have low magnesium. Back home now"

It would appear he's feeling crap due to low magnesium? It's such a shame to have him miss out on what would have been an incredible race or races including the relay.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

 

I don't wanna be one of those 'back door' brag type people, but...








;)

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http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
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OK moto draft alert. I love Flora dearly but she's getting a huge frequent tow by the photomoto. It was a great aid dropping the two other gals and is helping her pull away.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

come on. she was pulling the entire time before she pulled away. it actually was fairly brilliant -- tow kasper and learmonth away from the field and then leave them in no man's land to fry their legs.

Another great race for Flora. It's hard to imagine her loosing any this year without illness or injury.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Geez, nasty crash, hope every one is ok.

I got the top 2 predicted correctly. I think I picked Zafares for 3rd, and she would've got if she didn't leave T2 in last in her group.

The coverage kind of sucked - the leaderboard didn't work and they never left the on-screen athlete splits on past 15th-ish, so unless your athlete is in the top 15-ish, you don't know if they're 16th or 40th or crashed.

They need to up their game for the online and on-screen coverage.

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Advocating for research & treatment for Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME).
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"Suck it up, Buttercup"
(me, to myself, every day)

Who was that in the partially brown(?) trisuit serving and causing Alarza to crash?

Gabor Faldum I think...

pevtsov?

 

You'd think ITU have been racing in Hamburg long enough now to actually measure a course accurately.

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Fuming Alarza crashed out after me putting £15 on him on a EW bet!

2005???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

 
Yup.

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http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
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TBH, I had to google her and look at her Wiki profile, but I knew what you were alluding to :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Happened about 15m away from us & really couldn't tell in full speed. But it's pretty clear on the replay, Faldum (Hungarian in the brown suit) made a totally unpredictable & hard swerve left right into Alarza, who went down & the AZE athlete Pevtsov ran right over the top of him. The Frenchie (who got up & finished the race) swerved into the wall to avoid the mess.

The women's wreck was nasty! With my new triathlon crush Beaugrand getting the worst of it :( We were up in VIP beside the German Jrs/Coach & heard talk little later the Police motor braked hard & ripped the carpet up causing it all

CC

Interesting about the carpet, that would fit because when I watched it back it seemed very bizarre, there was a rider going along by herself who then went head over heels off her bike. I assume her front wheel must have snagged on the carpet. Very unfortunate.

Ouch.

Can you 'invest' in today's relay?

South Africa looks tough, and the Swiss team.

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Advocating for research & treatment for Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME).
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"Suck it up, Buttercup"
(me, to myself, every day)

4th isn't a bad result in today's relay for us Brits considering we didn't have any of our main players out and the massive fook up in T2 on the 4th leg.

What was up with the white tape on all of the Aussie's backs? I'm assuming kinesio tape, but seemed a bit odd.

i assumed it had something to do with the go-pros on their bikes. k tape usually isn't white and in the middle of your back.

 
Accelerometers.

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Why didn't Gomez or Mola race for the Spanish?

no lo se....

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Seems a bit arrogant to me for them to sit that out, maybe I'm wrong and they have genuine injury concerns? Alarza has a very good excuse of course.

Steve is that really true are are you winding us up?

Thanks,

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Or Gomez doesn't even like sprint races so a super sprint may be something very disliked by him, also this race often suits the younger athletes and maybe Spain wanted to give some experience to the next gen. And prize money is much more appreciated by less highly exposed athletes, nice of them to share it around maybe.

Considering it was essentially a British C team, 4th is super solid... Everyone else is racing on borrowed podium time if they can every field a healthy team... Canada was closed to sneaking onto the podium until Lepage scrubbed out, still huge that he got up and fought his way to 5th... And Kanute... Whenever he's in the MTR, he's on fire... If there was such a thing as an MTR specialist (super sprint specialist) he's got to be up there... Was also impressed by the Dutch, super solid race from their team, and it helps to have the reigning U23 Duathlon world champ as your anchor, when it comes down to a bunch sprint in the last 800m... Especially after the alarza wreck, and the other guys sitting out, it would have been hard to bet against Australia... They had so much depth in the races on Saturday, they had enough options to likely field two teams capable of top 5 placings in the MTR (especially on the ladies side)...

The format certainly makes for exciting viewing. There's so much potential for a slight slip up to alter the outcome if teams are at all evenly matched and with the four racers there are 4 times as many likely times to slip up i.e. getting into and out of shoes, getting race kit into box etc. There's also the "nerves factor" where team mates get hyper excited for their turn to take over and are more likely to make a mistake as a result.

It's definitely way more exciting to watch than the full length Olympic format.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

let's not get carried away with the UK team. it was their B team with the #4 ranked guy anchoring it (and the #15 guy on the 2nd leg). yes, there was no non, stimpson or holland but it's not like coldwell and hall are 2 newbie randoms thrown into the fire (they are both ranked in the top 30 in the world). however, if the UK goes with the Bs and 2 of non, stimpson and holland in tokyo, that is going to be a really hard team to beat.

why would mola and gomez do the super sprint? routier was ok on the lead-off but spain doesn't have a 2nd woman so they knew they would be losing at least a minute on the 3rd leg. gomez is not a sprinter. mola obviously is but having weak women and forcing him to chase solo doesn't play into his strengths. there was zero chance the spanish were going to medal with such a weak 3rd leg. it also was raining and the roads were slick so the chances of a crash on those windy city roads were much higher than normal. they already saw alarza get taken out in a crash so why risk a fall and a season ending injury in a race that they had no shot at podiuming on (after last year, gomez has to be particularly sensitive to potential crashes)? i do think that france has a medal potential team if beaugrand is on the third leg. that's at least a minute there. connix and luis are really good in the super sprint format.

So every nation that has no chance of medal just throws the race and tells there star players to sit it out and puts through there young hopefuls?

Looks like Murray and Schoeman didn't get the memo?

where did i say that every nation does that? i said that SPAIN did that this year and it's not that crazy. when you become a triathlete ranked in the top 10 in the world and are given the option to race a relay on windy wet streets that you have no shot at podiuming on, you can do it. i'm not going to rip on those that elect to do the opposite -- especially one who isn't a sprinter who missed the olympics last year due to an early season crash.

I was maybe a bit harsh with what I said about the UK team, the two ladies were no slouches, and Bishop is slowly establishing himself as a legit #2 male in the UK behind JB (when Ali doesn't race). I was making reference to the fact that they were still competitive, without access to their #1 male, and potentially top 3 ladies, speaking to the depth of talent that they have... They could be tough to beat if they actually had a healthy cast (although Australia is starting to re-emerge too, they have a lot of depth with a number of athletes both male and female starting to breakthrough in the ITU ranks...)...

To be fair, I think a few stars who didn't see the potential to make the podium with the cast they had, opted out not because they had no shot, but because of the carnage the day before, and the similar conditions, they didn't want to take the risk of crashing... Not to say that's the right decision, and good on some of the others who did race (although in some cases, if they hadn't, their NF would have had to withdraw because they couldn't field a team, and with the recent promotion to olympic status of the MTR, placings in the discipline can be essential to securing funding from their respective governments leading up to Tokyo so there was likely "strong encouragement" for them to step-up...)

Definitely agree. Hungary getting bronze in 2014 really solidified the relay as being the most fun event to watch, IMO.

Joanna Brown had probably the most impressive individual performance from yesterday, and it's a shame we didn't get to see if the US/Canada duo would've been able to stay away for gold/silver. Was a highly entertaining hour and a half nonetheless, and I'm really excited that the event will get an Olympic debut in 2020.

Yes, a very impressive run after doing almost all the work on the bike.

I think on Saturday in the sprint she may have been hampered by the crash and lost the front pack or would have had a higher finish. She'll do well on tough bike courses - are there any left on the WTS circuit?

---

Advocating for research & treatment for Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME).
http://www.meaction.net/about/what-is-me/

"Suck it up, Buttercup"
(me, to myself, every day)

It's a bit laughable to write Gomez off at the relay distance (sprint is certainy not his strong point) if you'd have put him on that 2nd leg yesterday how much times he losing? (If any?) He's certainly doing better than whoever it was who ran that 2nd leg for Spain.

As I said maybe they both have slight injuries, but if not and I was Mola and Gomez I'd be jumping at the chance of representing my country.

Iirc 2004 Sam and Jill savage came to Logan lake triathlon as a tune up for Athens.

Many athletes still have some great memories of those two bsing with a bunch of total newbies.....basically this was a very small triathlon in the middle of nowhere (but about 1.5 hours from penticton)

Both very nice ladies and excellent ambassadors for the sport, I hope they remember small moments like this during their "retirement"

Still occasionally in touch with Sean Clarke and Tara lee Marshall (at the races) they are in Vancouver and run an excellent AG and youth program, both also great coaches and ambassadors for the sport.

Hope all is well down there.

Edit: meant for salmon Steve

Cheers,

Yes accelerometers. I asked Emma (we coach her and she's currently the Aussie travelling physio). Apparently they have an intern / sport scientist travelling with them who is doing a paper on the dynamics of the team relay, it'll be published later this year.

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http://www.sweat7.com
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Thanks Steve,

That's really interesting. I'd have never guessed that the tape was securing accelerometers to them. My wife was trying to figure out what the KT tape was supposed to help with while I at first thought they had matching road rash covered up.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

 

Sam says Hi Maurice & thanks for your note. Retirement...hmmm...that's an interesting word around these parts.

She remembers the race, apparently up toward Kamloops in the mountains she thinks? I've heard lots of stories about that particular years base in Penticton; Terenzo, Rhodesy and some others made quite the name for the kiwis...I wasn't there that year.

Spent about 7 weeks at Jill's place in Penticton in 2008, absolutely loved the place and met some amazing people. Similar story, we went down to the Oliver Triathlon that year, was a really cool race, awesome welcoming people, & beautiful smooth roads I seem to remember too? I still have a photo from that trip from Jill's condo that I'll post on here one day....but Rappstar will ban me instantly so that'll be my "retirement" ;)

All the best.

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http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
Twitter: @sweat7coaching

I don't follow how a study of the dynamics of a triathlon relay would be very informative. I mean, if we interpret "dynamics" literally it means changes in speed, right??? Well, the changes in speed from the swim to the bike to the run are pretty huge but that is already very well known. So how is this study going to "increase our knowledge"???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

 


Yes accelerometers. I asked Emma (we coach her and she's currently the Aussie travelling physio). Apparently they have an intern / sport scientist travelling with them who is doing a paper on the dynamics of the team relay, it'll be published later this year.[/quote]

Thanks Steve,

That's really interesting. I'd have never guessed that the tape was securing accelerometers to them. My wife was trying to figure out what the KT tape was supposed to help with while I at first thought they had matching road rash covered up.[/quote]

I don't follow how a study of the dynamics of a triathlon relay would be very informative. I mean, if we interpret "dynamics" literally it means changes in speed, right??? Well, the changes in speed from the swim to the bike to the run are pretty huge but that is already very well known. So how is this study going to "increase our knowledge"???[/quote]
Pretty sure they show a lot more than that, stroke rate and cadence at the least, and for every moment of the race, from dive in until they get turned off at end. When looked at beside the race times by the minute could be some very interesting info actually.

Montreal has a tough bike course (Hills, cobbles, technical, it's like a spring classic of triathlon... it was a WC event last year, Flora used it as her last tune up pre-Rio)... The interesting thing was that the Canadian MTR team was largely picked based on their performance at Nationals (along with WC and WTS performances...), which was at the Ottawa CAMTRI event, where they did super sprint qualifying and sprint finals... So they were partially selected for their performance in the super sprint format, similar to the MTR... it will be interesting to see, if as we move towards Tokyo, more countries start to run similar events as part of their selection processes... Incidentally, Jo Brown won that event (in the sprint final she was off the front in a two person break the whole time, although Paula Findlay probably did 70% of the work on the bike, but in the later stages of the run, Paula lost touch...).

Thanks Steve,
That's really interesting. I'd have never guessed that the tape was securing accelerometers to them. My wife was trying to figure out what the KT tape was supposed to help with while I at first thought they had matching road rash covered up.[/quote]
I don't follow how a study of the dynamics of a triathlon relay would be very informative. I mean, if we interpret "dynamics" literally it means changes in speed, right??? Well, the changes in speed from the swim to the bike to the run are pretty huge but that is already very well known. So how is this study going to "increase our knowledge"???[/quote]
Pretty sure they show a lot more than that, stroke rate and cadence at the least, and for every moment of the race, from dive in until they get turned off at end. When looked at beside the race times by the minute could be some very interesting info actually.[/quote]
OK, I can see now that this could yield some interesting data, thanks for the explain.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

That MTR is so exciting! I love Kanute doing what Cam Dye was supposed to do...

McElroy was very impressive hanging with Birtwhistle, especially after doing the bike solo. If he can just bump that swim up a bit, he's a good anchor. Unless that kid who won Juniors and ran a 4:04/ 8:30 learns to swim well...

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

 Unless that kid who won Juniors and ran a 4:04/ 8:30 learns to swim well.

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Austin Hindman, swims well (came out beside Kanute in Hamburg). I think he'll likely race elite cup races in summers and run full time (w tri cross training supposedly) during school year.

He raced Hamburg, first truly big boy race of that caliber.


Will be racing worlds defending junior title.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I'd love to see someone work with McElroy on his position. I ride my mountain bike more aero than he rides his race bike. He sits very upright with elbows splayed outward rather than streamlined as if he's trying to create drag.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

I think that's the nature of single sport turned itu pro. Bike skills/ability is likely the slowest to acquire because of the tendency to have swim dominant program training initially (demands of competition). You can look at the progression of athletes in US who came to tri as a runner and first thing they improve most is swim and then bike position/skills/strength improves over time.

ETA: and I'm not saying a bike fit can't help. What I'm saying is that I think just the look/feel/fit/comfortability for single sport athletes always in the beginning looks off.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Wow - I saw he made the main pack initially, but I didn't realize he swam that well. Even for a wetsuit sprint that seems really meaningful.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team