More like 20. Trump is just a warm up. Pence will be an absolute embarrassment to the modern world.

The problem is the line of succession behind Trump. For the most part, they all suck.

To be fair, the other party is not good either.

drn92

I'm guessing maybe half of the people posting anti-Trump would have voted for another Republican over Hillary. The transparent lunacy and unpreparedness of Donald Trump for that role pushed me to vote against him, and for Hillary. I'd have happily voted for Kasich (whom I supported in the primary), and reluctantly for the majority of the GOP field, against either Hillary or Bernie. So let's not pretend Trump is your average Republican and that the response to the chaos he brought to the Presidency is mere partisanship.

Pence's brand of Midwest evangelical conservatism isn't my cup of tea, but there are bigger things at stake than domestic social policy.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

 - look who's complaining

Your search for obama in posts made by justgeorge returned 515 results

I doubt Trump would be gone right away. It will be close to or after elections, so chances are there will be at least a democratic senate. Then he will either move towards the center or he will be a lame duck and get nothing done.

I'd have happily voted for Kasich

That's great, but Kasich isn't vice president.

I'm already seeing "Pence is literally Hitler" memes on facebook.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Two ways to look at it. Had Pence been elected, yeah, there'd likely be a big anti-Pence presence here, but I doubt it would look anything like the forum today. He'd be wildly unpopular, but relatively boring.

But, we're talking about a hypothetical in which Trump exits stage left, leaving President Pence in that massive sucking void. Yeah, people would still bitch and moan, but it wouldn't have the existential crisis feel to it that tends to consume bandwidth like a fat kid with a Boost slushie.



You have facebook friends?

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Didn't vote for either party, and I would be happy do see T gone. Pence? While I may not agree with his views, he is at least competent with executive government experience. It's a bigly step up from the current situation.

But, we're talking about a hypothetical in which Trump exits stage left, leaving President Pence in that massive sucking void. Yeah, people would still bitch and moan, but it wouldn't have the existential crisis feel to it that tends to consume bandwidth like a fat kid with a Boost slushie.

Bonus points for the Boost slushie reference, but you lose all of them for being dead wrong.

It no longer matters who takes over for Trump if Trump is forced out. The people who have been bitching and moaning the most have invested their identity in the effort. They are Progressives. They are The Resistance. They are Antifa. Their identity can't handle simple victory. They'd be lost, adrift. No, they're just going to turn their attention and all their self-indulgent, asinine outrage over every minor thing to the next available target, and that's Pence, and after him, Ryan, and so on.

Most of them aren't really opposed to Trump on any real grounds of principle, but just because they think he gives them an opportunity to wail over social injustice. They're not going to stop.

I really want a Boost slushie now. And a pretzel.

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

If Pence takes over Angela Merkel will still be the leader of the free world.

Part of what I like about Trump is that he doesn't know how to pull all the levers to make the machine run.

Part of what I would prefer about Pence over Trump is that Pence may understand better about the importance of the machine. But he would be better at getting policies in that I would not like.

Best case scenario for me, a neutered and incompetent Trump that all the Republicans flee but he still drags all the Republicans into the deepest pits of hell. (not really, but you'd be disappointed without some venom)

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Of course i would attack Pence. I think he is a dangerous man. I would be going ape shit angry over Hillary as well.

Politics is a fight. It's not what the West Wing tried to make it out to be. I don't understand the play nice philosophy of politics. It is a game of power and power never leads to good.

It is puzzling how a man whose views would likely be quite mainstream in America 30 years ago is now so bad that its like he is the end of the world. Do most of you have parents who were such bad people. Not directed at vitus just an observation on the likely reaction to Pence being President.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I wouldn't say I'm a Trump hater, but I certainly don't like him (I think he's a fraud, plain and simple; a snake oil salesman who somehow has inveigiled himself into the WH).

Pence will inevitably attract criticism from the left, just as pretty much any Dem President will attract criticism from the right. That's just how it is, and how it will stay until the US loses some of its heavy polarisation. If Pence pursues some of his apparently more extreme conservative positions then the outcry will very loud, but then the same woud be true if Sanders was in the WH implementing some socialist policies.

I assume that the GOP could have - if it has wished to - avoided ending up with Trump as the nominee and avoided ending up with Pence as the VP. If there is a problem with either of those, it is a problem that was avoidable.

 



Yes but those people are not the leader of the free world and while they agree with him they are not like him. The older people in my life who agree with his policies are just better people. They are kind, understanding and want to learn things.

this feels about in line with my own thoughts. i think pence would still attract
a) the usual partisan criticism that always runs from one side to the other
b) the baseline of criticism that every president should expect

but my sense is that except for people who gleefully enjoy the madness, most people would probably rather be debating actual policy than debating 02:00 tweets. and a pence presidency would probably be back to the more mundane 'business as usual' criticism.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Sure people would still bitch, probably mostly about policy and such whereas right now it's mostly about the incompetent buffoonery of Trump.

I'd be quite satisfied to only disagree with a POTUS on policy matters.

Somehow, I don't think a Pence WH would be the circus that the Trump WH is.

About me: There were probably 10 people I would have voted for before Hillary in the election, and 14 before Trump.

Pence would be nowhere near the top of my list for a President, and I will probably bitch and complain some about his evangelical approach to everything. I think personal religion should be left out of politics altogether. That said, I would breathe a little easier if it were Pence sitting in the chair making national security decisions vs Trump. I think we have to ride this Trump wave into 2018 at a minimum however. The Republicans in Congress are dragging their feet.

Let's pretend that you get your wish and Trump either resigns or is impeached, and Pence is now the president. What will you do then, when an actual conservative Republican is president instead of whatever Trump is?


Indeed, if you are a liberal, and I am one, it's a challenging situation. Get rid of Trump and you get Pence. Trump is incoherent and incompetent, but politically, he's a bit of an enigma - really. Is he really a Republican/Conservative? Pence on the other hand - there's no question. He's at edge of the far right of the Republican Party - some of the stuff he has stood behind and championed in the past is down-right neanderthal!

I've seen some opinions expressed in comments sections and even by some pundits, that with all the chaos and craziness that Trump brings to the White House, that, the upside for liberals, and the Democrats is that, the whole of the Republican agenda get's held up by all the craziness. So just leave Trump in there and wait it out until at least 2018, where the mid-terms will send a clear message, that Trump and the Republicans are on the wrong path, with a complete ouster coming in 2020. At least, that way it will be the ouster of Trump and the Republicans by the most basic and fundamental democrat tools we have - voting and the ballot box!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

here is my problem with trump and pence and ryan and all the republicans. and i'm willing to hear and accept the counter-argument and, in fact, want to hear it. because it's in my interest to hear it.

what we see now is a drain of wealth and buying power from every class but the highest of the upper class. wealth is flowing upward and it is flowing upward with a tax rate that is substantially lower when america was "great".

if republicans get what they want that's good for me in the short term, but if you look at what's going on in the other forum they all think triathlon is getting too expensive. they can't do the sport any longer. people are really feeling the pinch. what happens when interest rates to up again? i sure hope everybody's locked into fixed rate mortgages, because even at 4.4 percent unemployment of whatever it is everybody is barely scraping by paycheck to paycheck... except the wealthy.

we know that supply side economics doesn't work and please don't insult my intelligence and try to blow that smoke up my skirt again.

so we have this problem: fairness in the tax code doesn't work. at some point it's 1789 and its paris and we begin to tear hedge fund managers limb from limb. at some point we elect bernie in a landslide because we finally get to that point.

if anybody can tell me how we can lower tax rates for the wealthy to make the tax code fair to them while still staunching the upward suck of wealth out of the hands of 90 percent of americans and into the hands of the top 10 percent, i'm all in!

but i can't see that. hence my problem with the republicans, regardless whether its trump or pence at the top. i just don't see a good end to that trajectory.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Here in Tennessee they have started to go after our Senators and Representatives. And it's really classic Barack Obama type stuff. Meaning, when you can't win elections, you destroy the opposition.

Who do The Resistance want? Well, they have no clue who they want but they sure as shit know who they don't want.

Before the election I assured my Democratic friends that America would survive a Trump presidency and I assured my Republican friends that America would survive a Clinton presidency. While I disagree with almost every position Pence holds at least he understands how government works and the impotence of the job. Trump's main talent is self-promotion. He is entirely out of his depth as president and so far seems to have no interest in growing into it. He keeps trying to bluster and fake his way through.

"And it's really classic Barack Obama type stuff. Meaning, when you can't win elections, you destroy the opposition. "

Smell the deflection. Big inhale through the nose and wow that is shittyl All politcians destroy the oppistion. For anyone to hold their side up as some kind of party of virtue is hysterical. We all know the none personal attacks of the Republicans.

 

here is my problem with trump and pence and ryan and all the republicans.

Be serious, Dan. You have a recent posting history, for crying out loud. Your problem with Trump goes far beyond the economy. (Not that it shouldn't, but please, stop deluding yourself that an non-ideological, non-partisan pragmatist.)

but if you look at what's going on in the other forum they all think triathlon is getting too expensive. they can't do the sport any longer.

And you pin the blame for that on the Republican party, rather than $650 entry fees and $10,000 bikes, huh? OK.

Look, I've been as vocal a critic of the modern American economy and its impact on regular folks as anyone. But it's ridiculous for you to lay that entirely at the feet of the Republicans and give the Democrats some kind of pass.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

 "So just leave Trump in there and wait it out until at least 2018, where the mid-terms will send a clear message, that Trump and the Republicans are on the wrong path, with a complete ouster coming in 2020. At least, that way it will be the ouster of Trump and the Republicans by the most basic and fundamental democrat tools we have - voting and the ballot box! "

This idea why I call myself a progressive/leftist and now see the current neo-Liberals and the Democratic party a more immediate threat than the Republicans. The idea of, "Just wait until people really see the other side then they will come running back to us."never works. People need to someone to vote for, not against.

The idea of just waiting to see what will happen will hand you defeat every time. The Democratic party is a branch of the Republicans. They want the same things but they are just happy with the table scraps. A party of cowards. I am setting up myself with the quote I am about to quote but here it goes, "I don't fight fascist because I am going to win. I fight fascist because they are fascist.", Chris Hedges.

Change fascist to whatever word you want so we don't go down a fucking fascist rabbit hole and it stands. We must fight for ideals even if we know we are going to lose.













'

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He does. I can actually vouch for that. =P

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Except I didn't do that. But then that doesn't help your cause.

People need to someone to vote for, not against.


Key line and I agree 100% with you.

Given what's going on, and the way the last campaign went, Democrats need to think, VERY clearly and honestly about who their next real leader will be.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

They had the ringer. Berny would have stomped Trump. No one likes Hillary except the Democratic leadership. When the book about the 2016 election comes out it will lay bare the mass incompetence and corruption the Democratic party.

You will likely get something on the level of pre-Iraq War Bush.


The disdain for Trump is not about the left just coincidentally being extra anti-Republican all of the sudden. Trump is a special kind of politician. Either you see that, or you are one of the 35% that thinks that the media is manufacturing all of this hysteria.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

You did do that. First you brought up Obama which is a none start. None of this is about Obama. Then you put the practice of destroying opponents on his shoulders by saying, "And saying really Classic Barack Obama type stuff." Deflection. Look at Obama! If you would have said that the parties are destroying each other you would have been on target.

"But then that doesn't help your cause. "


It doesn't effect my cause. If you wouldn't have deflected I wouldn't have called you out on it.

Pence is not Trump, obviously.

That doesn't mean the left is going to deal with Pence like he's a normal politician. They're going to treat him like a KKK member who refuses to bake a cake for a gay couple. That is, with hysterics.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

No. Like most days, you look for an opening to jump in with your anti-everyone anti-everything thing rant. It's your MO. Welcome to the thread.

You know it completely legitimate for the LGBTQ community to see ideas like conversion therapy and laws against them to seem KKK like.

I am open to the idea that my reading comprehension is low. I am wrong often. What am I not seeing?

You're the best evidence there is that the left won't be reasonable during a Pence presidency, Tibbs. Thanks.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

How was I unreasonable. You are welcome.

Are you saying since Trump couldn't be defeated he was attacked personally.

The real question is, what are you guys going to wear instead of the pink pussy hats?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I think the question is whether or not a Pence administration would suffer from as much friendly fire and/or self inflicted wounds. The left might very well react to a hypothetical Pence presidency with hysterics, but the hysterics would be more policy related. A lot of the current hysterics have more to do with disorganization, poor messaging, inconsistency, etc.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Well I plan on continuing to wear my out of style hipster garb. Raw denim, work shirts, vintage sneakers and keeping my beard. Now that my fashion has been covered how am I being unreasonable?

Bullshit! I would vote for a centrist Republican and had no real problems with Romney, Kasich, Huntsman, or guys like them. Pence has been very bad for Indiana and wants to push a religious agenda. No, he is not Hitler but he is far from Gandhi as well. He is very extreme on the social issues and that is bad for the country in the long run.

There will be people who will go after him because of the "R" but you would claim that is the only reason even if he were to do something that deserves ridicule.

Did you claim people only went after Obama because he had a "D" by his name?

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_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Bravo!

right. but we also have thread titles, and themes, and i answered in the context of this thread. if trump is out and pence is in, or if any republican in congress becomes president, i have this problem i still have to get past. we don't have a reagan republican in congress any longer than i can identify.


i wouldn't give anyone a pass. the guy i wanted to be president is a fiscal hawk disliked by legislators on both sides. if you're not willing to piss off everybody you're not fit to be president (just not in the way trump is pissing everyone off).

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

A lot of the current hysterics have more to do with disorganization, poor messaging, inconsistency, etc.

I don't think that's an accurate perception at all.

The hysterical response to Trump started well before the election, and reached fever pitch around the inauguration. I grant you that we'd already seen some signs of inconsistency and whatnot during the campaign, but the hysterics from the left weren't really based in substance at all. They were just hysterical.

The substance is only now starting to catch up with the hysterics. (Which, not surprisingly, have been toned down to some degree.)

It wouldn't matter how competent a Pence administration was, or what real policies it would pursue. The left will oppose him right out of the gate, and treat him like the dangerous, fascist, retrograde neanderthal they believe him to be. It's not just politics anymore. It's about identity and culture and defining the other and destroying enemies.

Like I said, the left is already starting to traffic in Pence-as-Nazi memes.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Pence is unhinged in his own way. Moderates center left and right need to run this country now. Ryan's Econ plan is a joke. Combo kasich & Kane would provide realistic attempts at solving pressing problems of today. Neuter k street and big money.

So, besides just wanting anyone but Hillary, did YOU actually want Trump? How is your claim about whatever resistance any different than the side you're on, other than the EC deck being stacked in favor of more rural states so the election swung counter to the popular vote? There's zero substantive difference in being anti-Trump vs anti-Hillary ~ Welcome to the club!

Bravo!

Have you noticed Kasich in the news lately weighing in on the matter(s) at hand? Perhaps he's lining up a 2020 run and the Pubs will convince DT to stand down? (I know, I know, but one can ponder)

My mother was told she could be a teacher or a nurse because those were the only careers for women. That is not the world I want my daughter to grow up in.

I also think if he cannot control himself with women alone he should be forced to wear some type of chastity belt his wife can lock in the morning as she sends him off to work and unlock in the evening rather than excluding women from meeting with him 1:1. His self confessed lack of comfort should be his problem to control and not impact the efficiency of the government.

Hey! No, showing that both sides are lunatics in them.

If the fears turn out to be justified will you still consider them hysterical? And every criticism, or even most, was not without substance. It was based on what he said. Though we were told the problem was our own because we took him literally but not seriously (whatever the fuck that was supposed to mean).

Search 'Obama is the antichrist' and you return 400,000 hits. It is easy to find people being hysterical. They are funny and it makes good TV. But it doesn't mean everyone who doesn't like a particular politician is just being hysterical.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I hate knit hats so I won't wear them.

Should I wear non hysterical Republican hats?

They will go after any Republican, Pence, Kasich, it doesn't matter. To the uber Left on ST, it is all politics all the time and unless you toe the SJW, social engineering line you will be destroyed.

Only the left?

what we see now is a drain of wealth and buying power from every class but the highest of the upper class. wealth is flowing upward


So if Trump and the Republicans are encouraging and supporting this dynamic, why do so many in the lower 1/3 of the economic spectrum support them and vote for them? It would seem these folks, vote for the party and the policies that punish them the most? Why is that?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

why do so many russians support putin?

in my opinion, it's two things. first, you have a mountain of money flowing into a propaganda campaign to convince folks that what is not in their best interest is what they really want. second, you have republican orthodoxy, which combines disparate hot button, heartfelt issues into a kind of apostles creed of "things we believe". it has worked really well. gun owners believe in christ. christians believe in low taxes for the wealthy. the wealthy believe voter fraud is rampant. federalists believe in christ. none of them had anything much to do with each other before republicanism displaced evangelicanism as the thing we believe in more than we believe in anything else.

so, i have neighbors. they're mine and my wife's age (circa 60). they're self-employed engineers. they barely can afford their health insurance and they go for months on end with no insurance. the house health care plan will cause the $30,000 they pay right now in premiums and deductibles to shoot up to $50,000, maybe $70,000 or more (for the two of them) by the time they both hit medicare age.

But they will never, ever, ever vote for anything but a tea party, freedom caucus candidate, because they started as hard core christians and have morphed into hard core republicans. they hate their next door neighbor who has turned his 5 acre parcel into a private shooting range. they live in fear of this crazy. but of course they vote for the very policies that allow this guy to shoot whatever, whenever he wants.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Because no one is poor. They are just temporarily embarrassed millionaires. The Republicans have done a much better job than Democrats when talking to poor working class voters. The way they communicate resonates much better. How often do you hear the Democrats being accused of being condescending to this bloc of voters?

Those voters have become convinced that other poor people are the reason they don't have money. I grew up in a deep red rural area. My broke ass childhood friends frequently bitch about their taxes paying for all those layabouts. But if the numbers are even close to right, 45 - 50% of people aren't paying the federal income tax that would be paying for these people. They pay local and state taxes and federal payroll tax but not the source of welfare and food stamps.

It is the poor people holding them down, not the people making all the money.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

this is a pretty good description of what I have been trying to wrap my head around for years. I also grew up in a really red (and rural and poor) area, and I hear this all the time when "back home".

----------------------------------------------------

Because no one is poor. They are just temporarily embarrassed millionaires. The Republicans have done a much better job than Democrats when talking to poor working class voters. The way they communicate resonates much better. How often do you hear the Democrats being accused of being condescending to this bloc of voters?

Those voters have become convinced that other poor people are the reason they don't have money. I grew up in a deep red rural area. My broke ass childhood friends frequently bitch about their taxes paying for all those layabouts. But if the numbers are even close to right, 45 - 50% of people aren't paying the federal income tax that would be paying for these people. They pay local and state taxes and federal payroll tax but not the source of welfare and food stamps.

It is the poor people holding them down, not the people making all the money.

"Here in Tennessee they have started to go after our Senators and Representatives."
--------------------
I'm in Tennessee, and I don't know what you are talking about. The senators here are Corker and Alexander, and they are both pretty widely respected on both sides. If anything, Alexander is probably receives more criticism from tea partiers than progressives.

Hell, I'd vote for either of them for President over the last 2 candidates we had.

Agreeing that tribal affiliation is becoming most important in determining voting patterns. The two clearest examples of tribal division revolve around race and religion and geography at this point. Throw in a bifurcated media which pretty much exists to maintain and deepen such divisions, either by design or by accident. Add in parties that are dealing with complex internal divisions, so that ways to improve the lives of the poor is in constant debate.

Because they are mostly white and see dems as consisting of more diversity which might suggest to them more wealth redistribution and less political influence. Federal tax rate is fairly stable and my state's income tax rate the same as 1950s, so why they rail against taxes is hard to understand. Their incomes are not going up....capital taxed less than labor yet they support repubs who want to reward investors not labor. They need to cut waste in government but seems like there is constituency for every cut. Gore someone else's ox, not mine. Shame we couldn't turn some cost accountants loose and get honest cost benefit analysis that public could understand much less pols.

I agree regarding Corker. Alexander is too old. :-)

It's on the front page of today's Chattanooga Times Free Press. A subscription is needed but it cites a Politco article for locals Coker and Fleishmann:

http://www.politico.com/...nterest-rules-238033

Hahaha, ha, ha....ha! I'm one of those accountants fighting the "good fight" by trying to explain financial issues to regular people on a daily basis. I can't make my reasonably smart friends understand a car loan which is pretty apolitical. Do you think people already primed to love or hate a particular governmental program will allow financial analysis change their opinion?

Let me give you an example - the house of representatives just passed a bill, which at it's core cuts almost a TRILLION out of Medicaid and sends most of this money to the 1 percenters. The clowns even celebrated this on live TV in the Rose garden. What are we talking about today?

If we put it on a reality tv show maybe the dumb fucks would watch.....gaging by some of the town halls there is a sliver of a chance pols will have to answer why 1T will go to Paris Hilton and others.

Where have you been the past 8 years? Have you looked at who benefited from the Obama Presidency? Are you really that out of touch with reality? Holy cow man, do some reading of something, anything that doesn't come from a left wing website. Under Obama the rich were HUGE winners while the rest of the country were slaughtered. You really cannot be that daft.

Under Obama where record deportations, drone strikes and further economic disparity. The very idea that Obama behaved in any way left is a joke.

If the fears turn out to be justified will you still consider them hysterical?

Those fears aren't going to turn out to be justified. Because they're hysterical.

I'm not talking about people who opposed Trump's policy proposals, in part or in whole, and I'm not talking about people who just strongly opposed him because they thought him temperamentally unfit for the office.

I'm talking about that significant slice of the left who opposes him rabidly because of who and what they believe he stands for. It's tribal. They consider him the champion of everything that's wrong and hideous and awful about America- racist, misogynist, homophobic, rich, etc etc. They didn't oppose him for his policy, they opposed him for the sake of opposing him- which is basically all the women's march amounted to, for example. And it's also why so many people reacted out of all proportion to minor, unimportant executive actions, like the temporary travel ban.

The literally-Hitler crowd, that's who I'm talking about. They're not reasonable, their opposition isn't reasonable or reasoned or respectable, they aren't going to be proven right, and they aren't going to go away when Trump is gone.


Search 'Obama is the antichrist' and you return 400,000 hits.

Did you really just try to employ the reverse "but Obama" ploy? lol.

I'm happy to agree that anyone who thought Obama was actually the antichrist was a hysterical loon. But I'm pretty sure those people don't really compare to those on the left who think "resisting" Trump on every point, no matter how minor or inconsequential, is a moral imperative in its own right. (To include erstwhile mainstream media outlets such as the Washington Post, too.)

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

do you really need to be such an asshole in writing? i hope you're not this way in person.

yes, you're right. the way we are right now, the way it is, and for at least the last 16 years, the wealth has aggregated to the top. i'm not blaming or crediting anyone. i'm simply stating a fact. to me. giving that very top a tax cut is going to accelerate that. i don't see why that's a good thing.

do i think we need to hike the rates to high heaven? no. i don't think that's fair. i just know what hasn't worked, which are the tax cuts for the wealthy that were enacted in the early 2000s that i'm very glad to see personally but that in the end will hamper the ability of all companies to sell their products.

i do like the idea of a corporate tax cut. i like reducing the burden of regulations that are simply onerous solutions looking for a nonexistent problem. beyond this, you tell me. i'm at a loss. i've always felt we need to protect core industries with import tarifs: steel, energy, defense, etc. maybe that would help. i don't see this as particularly partisan. just, i don't see why we should "solve" our problems with solutions that have already been demonstrated not to work.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

The literally-Hitler crowd, that's who I'm talking about. They're not reasonable, their opposition isn't reasonable or reasoned or respectable, they aren't going to be proven right, and they aren't going to go away when Trump is gone.


It also makes it really hard to come to agreement on anything. If Hitler thinks he is dealing with the anti-Christ there really is no reasonable resolution.


Did you really just try to employ the reverse "but Obama" ploy? lol.


That was not unintentional, it seemed like the theme of the day/week/month so I went with it.

But I'm pretty sure those people don't really compare to those on the left who think "resisting" Trump on every point, no matter how minor or inconsequential, is a moral imperative in its own right.


There was an entire swath of people who claimed Obama would destroy America, he didn't love America like we do, he actually wanted to be president so he could destroy America, etc. These kind of people reside on both sides of the aisle, and both sides think the other side is light years worst.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

For what it's worth, Google searches for:

"George W. Bush is the Antichrist" = 2,350,000 hits
"Bill Clinton is the Antichrist" = 397,000 hits
"Trump is the Antichrist" = 403,000 hits
"Marilyn Manson is the Antichrist" = 400,000 hits
"Ronald Reagan is the Antichrist" = 347,000 hits
"Elvis Presley is the Antichrist" = 4,790,000 hits

Seems like Marilyn Manson needs to keep working on his persona, and Elvis is still the king. Searching this way for my own name only comes up with 3,410 hits. I apparently have a lot of work to do.

DJT is off to a good start towards being the Antichrist Superstar - if he can keep this trend up for the remaining 13/14 of his Presidency, he should be able to pass up Elvis, why thank you very much.

Anyway, carry on.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

It also makes it really hard to come to agreement on anything. If Hitler thinks he is dealing with the anti-Christ there really is no reasonable resolution.

Exactly the problem, and exactly why the preemptive "Pence is also literally Hitler, and so is Ryan, and so are all the other Republicans" effort is so irritating.

If I'm a Republican, and that's what I'm seeing from the left already, don't you think that provides a pretty big disincentive about standing up to Trump? I mean, just from a political point of view, what's the point? How optimistic can I be that the left will at least act like reasonable adults after the fact?


There was an entire swath of people who claimed Obama would destroy America, he didn't love America like we do, he actually wanted to be president so he could destroy America, etc.

Well . . . It depends on how you mean that. I might actually count myself in that swath of people. Obama explicitly campaigned on the desire to transform America. And he did- or at least presided over that transformation.

Do I think he was an agent of ISIS who wanted to see Sharia law imposed on the country or whatever? No. I think he didn't share my view of traditional American values, and worked to replace them with a new set. Not really much of a semantic reach from there to, "he doesn't love America."

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

See, I never thought GW Bush was the anti-Christ. He just worked for him.

What the hell did Elvis ever do to anyone to deserve that? Must have been all the pelvic thrusting.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Hmmm, I really don't see how you parse the "oppose all of his policy proposals" from "opposing him for the sake of opposing him" TrumpCare (or RyanCare or whatever) would result in ~24M folks losing healthcare coverage. Will you please let me know the level of outrage that you think I should feel over that? How much anger should I express over policies that (left unchallenged) could lead to the deportation of millions? His policies are an endless amalgamation of terrible, poorly thought out and contradictory campaign promises with real-world consequences. That is the core of the women's march and others like it (which I attended). Your ability to accurately differentiate between the justifiably angry and the unjustifiably angry is nothing short of omniscient, especially considering that you are analyzing a group that you really don't agree with or understand.

While my Trumpster Uncle isn't a layabout I've seen him post stuff on facebook about people on welfare which is sort of funny because I know his family has received govt. assistance in the past.