Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help.
 
EDIT: I do currently have counsel, and my counsel has reviewed this statement. END EDIT.

EDIT: A copy of the suit (which is public record) can be found here: https://rappstarcom.files.wordpress.com/...04/ruster_v_rapp.pdf END EDIT

I’d hoped that I might have the sort of race at Ironman Texas that would have alleviated the need to ask for help like this. But it turns out getting served with notice of a lawsuit 10 days out from one of the biggest races in your season is not an ideal way to taper.

I have been sued by TJ Tollakson and Dimond Bicycles because I refused to continue putting my safety at risk by riding Dimond bicycles. My contract with Dimond required that Dimond provide me with bicycles that were suitable for racing and training, something that Dimond was never able to do. So eventually I was forced to make a choice: find a safe bike, or continue to risk my safety by riding defective Dimond bicycles. I chose safety. Dimond chose to sue me in Iowa. I’m not the only one that they have sued: TJ seems to think that he can silence the truth through lawsuits. I’m hoping he’s wrong, but lawsuits are expensive. So, humbly I’m asking for help.

I have started a GoFundMe to support my effort to fight this. The money I raise will solely go to this effort. Should there be any additional funds leftover after I win, I will donate that money to World Bicycle Relief.

The career path of a professional triathlete is rarely smooth. But thanks to the support of the triathlon community and slowtwitchers in particular, I've somehow over the past fifteen years been able to turn myself from a rower/engineer into a world champion. I thought my dream was done in 2010, but the sport rallied behind me and helped me get back on the race course. Since then, I've faced more challenges, from the mental struggle that still accompanies every bike ride I do (except for the increasing number on Zwift) to the more expected challenges of tougher fields of faster and younger athletes, as well as a contracting industry.

In 2014, I found out Specialized was ending, after six years, what I had hoped would be a lifetime relationship. With two less than impressive years of racing in 2013 and 2014 and facing an industry with contracting budgets, I knew I had few options for the future. I didn't expect to make the same sort of money I had with Specialized, but I thought if I could work with a good, emerging company that made a great bike, I could make a difference and that I still had some race wins left in me.

I had known TJ Tollakson, who founded Dimond, for a long time. We were both part of the same 20-24 age-group crew that decided to turn pro around 2005. As a fellow engineer, I was intrigued by his fledging bike company, Dimond, especially because of knowing some of the engineers he worked with on the bike's design. I considered TJ a friend, and I thought this was a real opportunity to help grow a brand that, I thought, believed in the same things I did - engineering excellence, domestic manufacturing, and a commitment to quality.

Unfortunately, it turned out that I was very mistaken. The first frame I received from Dimond, in early 2015, had some issues. The seat-post binder wouldn't hold, though by sanding the interior faces of the clamp to allow it to squeeze tighter and tightening the bolts to 6Nm (150% of the maximum recommended specification), I was able to make it work. The saddle rail clamp also never held, but having ridden roughly the same position for almost a decade, I simply set my saddle up and epoxied the clamp in place. The paint was extremely brittle and I had to travel with a bottle of clear coat to touch of the inevitable chips that happened no matter how well I packed it. Was this what I expected from a $6000MSRP frame set? No. But I was assured that the clamp design was being fixed, that the rail clamping issue was something nobody else was seeing, and that they had already terminated their relationship with this painter.

Believing in the engineers working for and also advising Dimond and, especially, not wanting to believe that I'd entered into a long term agreement with a company that didn't actually make a very good bike, I accepted these answers and the workarounds that were required. Every small manufacturer has some hiccups, and the answers I received seemed like the right ones. Unfortunately, in spite of these problems, this was far and away the best frame that Dimond ever gave me.

The frame I received for Kona 2015 was demonstrably worse. Unfortunately, due to the compressed timeline that results from the far too common "we want you on a new frame for Kona!" attitude - something that I have agreed to more times than I should have, the true depth of these defects did not become apparent for quite some time. As an engineer, I'm sad to say that it took me until July of 2016 to realize just how damaged this frame was. It had the same issues with the saddle rail clamp, which should have been a red flag. And the new seat-post binder wasn't any better - and was in fact worse - than the old one. But the primary issue was that the tolerances between the beam and the lower frame were way off. The Dimond design is extremely sensitive to the precision of the interface between the two frame members. Any imperfections cause significant instability, something that becomes progressively worse over time as the beam fixing axle grinds away at the support holes. At the time, I believed my broken saddle in Kona was a fluke, but having continued to ride Cobb saddles with solid titanium rails - in spite of Cobb's decision to switch to hollow steel rails - without issue on other bikes, I now believe that the defects in this particular frame were a likely cause of this failure. The beam simply was never stable.

In July of 2016, I sent a detailed explanation of the problem - as well as a simple and effective proposal about how to alter the frame design (use a simple steel shear plate as opposed to having the aluminum axle rely loading the carbon directly) - to Dimond. They rushed me a new frame for Mt. Tremblant. As with the frame it was replacing, this frame seemed - initially - to be okay. But over time - and given my increased awareness of the issue, it became clear between Ironman Mont-Tremblant and Kona that this frame also had the same tolerance issues between the frame members.

I also sent the following videos (they are almost identical) to Dimond in July of 2016 demonstrating the issue:

#1: https://vimeo.com/214786444

#2: https://vimeo.com/214786430



I am not sure how I thought that I was going to win Kona on a frame I was doing major composite repairs to in the month before the race, but I guess I would just say that it's important as an athlete to believe you can overcome any obstacle. Beyond that, I struggle enough as it is, having nearly died once on a bicycle, to get out on the roads. If I acknowledged that I was riding a structurally unsound - and therefore potentially dangerous - frame, I don't think I could have gotten out the door. And certainly, at that point, what could I do? Why would I expect any other Dimond to be any different than these past two? The design and execution were and are flawed. And yet I couldn't ride something else. So I raced to my worst ever Ironman finish, not surprising given that I had no confidence in my equipment at that point.

After Kona, I took my longest break ever. I didn't want to race. And I especially didn't want to ride a Dimond anymore. That race in Kona was the last time I've ever thrown my leg over a Dimond, and I knew it would be the last time I ever would. I didn't trust the bike anymore. And for me, with my history, trust and confidence is paramount. I think that's really true for any athlete, but for me, it literally feels like a matter of life and death. I remember speaking at Specialized after my accident, and talking about how grateful I was for the engineering excellence they pursued. I was wearing a Specialized helmet, Specialized eyewear, and was on, of course, a Specialized bike. At 30mph, my helmet and glasses saved my head and eyes as I crashed through the window of car, and the only damage to the frame was a fractured steerer tube. I had no faith that a Dimond would serve me so well in such a case. And with three young kids and one on the way, that terrified me.

I waited until after TJ raced in Ironman Arizona to contact him. As someone who I considered a friend, I did not want to disturb his race. This kindness was not to be repaid. Our initial conversation was tough. I never mentioned - perhaps foolishly - my concern with the frames. TJ also has young kids, and I believed - or wanted to believe - that the Dimond design could be saved. I thought TJ understood. I offered to refund my last quarterly salary payment from Dimond. A modest amount of just under $1,700, but it was still enough - I thought - to help sign a young pro who'd welcome any money at all. My sense of that first conversation was that he'd release me from my contract. It was then that I also proposed to give away my old Dimonds as a way to leave a positive impression of the brand.

How did I mentally justify giving away frames that I believed were unsound? Denial. I had forced myself to believe that the frames were sound and that I had been able to "fix" the defects. How else could I have ridden them? After subsequent discussions, it became obvious I could not give these away, which broke my heart, because I love what I have been able to do with my giveaway.

Based on our conversation, I expected a contractual release to be forthcoming, but it never arrived for me to sign. Eventually I just indicated via email that I was not going to ride for Dimond anymore and that I couldn't imagine that he'd want someone who didn't want to ride his bikes as an ambassador anymore. I never received a reply to that email, but a few weeks later, near the end of December, Brad Bach, the business manager, emailed me asking for an "exit interview." I was relieved. Clearly, I thought, we've got closure.

It was in this interview with Brad, who I felt could be more objective as Dimond was not his company, that I first mentioned the consistent defects in the frames I'd received and emphasized that Dimond needed to focus on quality control rather than new features until these issues were resolved. Brad was extremely receptive to this feedback - and never challenged my assertions about the quality of the frames - and I thought that was the end.

Then, in early January, I received a letter from a lawyer in Iowa demanding that I make a payment of $150,000 - roughly 17 times the total amount Dimond had paid me over two years - or that Dimond would pursue legal action against me from breach of contract. At roughly the same time, Diamondback received a similar letter, only demanding $350,000, for signing me. Diamondback's lawyers fired off a stern reply and there has been no further action taken against them.

My only lawyer responded with a statement that the contract was null and void since Dimond had repeatedly failed to live up to the explicit promise made in the contract to provide "bicycles suitable for racing" given the numerous defects I experienced. We offered to send back all the frames and, again, to refund my fourth quarter payment, though I have stood by my initial promise there and the check remains un-cashed on my desk. We received no response of any kind from Dimond's counsel.

At this point, I began speaking with friends of mine in the industry. My issues with quality were not unique. In some cases, Dimond had replaced a given customer's frame as many as four times. And in many cases, the defects were even worse than what I had experienced. I didn't know what to do. I still - foolishly, perhaps - did not want to damage a company that I thought was trying to do the "right thing." It was during this time that it finally became absolutely clear that I could not complete my Dimond frame giveaway. Diamondback has since agreed to give me an additional frame to giveaway, as has another company, and the details of the final recipients will be made public shortly. I am glad that, in spite of all of this, I will be able to fulfill my promise to put deserving triathletes on a new bike.

While my agreement with Diamondback gave me renewed confidence and some slight financial security, I still have four young children and I don't want to be forced to drain the savings that my wife and I have worked hard to put away for their future. And yet I also believe I can no longer keep quiet about the defects in Dimond's frames.

So I plan to fight this aggressively. Settling would simply enable someone who has been enabled through the silence of others for too long already. But civil cases have no clear end in sight. And Iowa law, unlike California law, has no anti-slapp statute designed to easily and quickly throw out lawsuits that are designed simply to keep information that should be public - like a bike maker selling defective frames - out of the public eye.

Furthermore, if you are a Dimond owner who has had issues with your frames that Dimond has attempted to gloss over or who has been threatened with legal action by Dimond, I want to hear from you. I know that I am not the only one to have been sued or otherwise threatened with legal action over the repeated defects in these frames.

If you are a lawyer who is registered with the Iowa bar and would be willing to lend your time and expertise in support, we'd also welcome that as well.

Thank you.

Edit made on Apr 26, 10:26PM to remove references to persons no longer affiliated with Dimond.
Edit made on Apr 27, 7:40AM to remove a missed reference to persons no longer affiliated with Dimond.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
Last edited by: Rappstar: Apr 30, 17 11:43
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Shit.
Sorry to hear.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
What. The. Fuck......so lame and disappointing. Good luck....here to help if I can.


-------------------------------
I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
Powered by Accelerate 3
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Seriously?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Nobody is winning in this pissing contest, except the lawyers (as usual.).
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
You're one of very few people who could use this forum to help crowd fund a legal dispute with a bike manufacturer while making broad claims of quality and design issues against the same manufacturer based off a few samples.

I wish you luck, and will consider donating pending a little due diligence.
Last edited by: trail: Apr 26, 17 16:40
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
This is scary and crazy
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Poon] [ In reply to ]
 
So when will ST readers get to hear Dimond's side of the story?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
I suspect you will prevail, and Diamond's brand image will suffer greatly.

I am sure there are some attorneys on the forum that may appreciate being able to review the exact language in your contract related to providing a bike suitable for training and racing. You might want to consider posting that section.

I have to ask - what's the upside for Diamond here?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
 
Andrew Coggan wrote:
So when will ST readers get to hear Dimond's side of the story?

Exactly
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Wow unreal, I wish u best of luck and so glad I got a trek sc instead!!

First a long thread on dimond and horrible customer service with that one guy and now this... Tj and crew better get their ducks in line. If a lot of ppl have issues with dimond I expect a class action lawsuit against them.

Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Poon] [ In reply to ]
 
Poon wrote:
Nobody is winning in this pissing contest, except the lawyers (as usual.).

that's an understatement. I'm overdue for a new ride. I know what brand I won't be looking at. What a shame; it always amazes me how awful some business do in the decision making department.

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Poor quality aside, they seem to be out of touch with their user base. The reason the Dimond brand is as well known in tri community is this forum! To sue one of the people associated with ST, and risk having all of this come out here, like it just did, was foolish and shortsighted. Significant percentage of their sales are due to people from this forum. The cost vs benefit of this legal action just isn't there for them.

Or in folksy terms, they just cut their own dick off. Congrats.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
So you have the money to pay for an attorney as indicated by your not wanting to dip into savings comment but instead you'd rather have other random people pay your legal fees just to save you money? I wish you luck in your legal fight against TJ and Dimond but the GoFundMe part is kinda strange.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
This is why I never trust anything a sponsored athlete has to say about the equipment he or she is using.

Good luck in the fight. But like others have said, this is a no-win for everyone but the lawyers.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
 
Andrew Coggan wrote:
So when will ST readers get to hear Dimond's side of the story?

Simple, TJ does no wrong.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Define Safe
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
All I can say is - even if you're 100% correct, you should:

a) document EVERYTHING
b) pull down your post
c) lawyer up

Anything you write on this forum (aside from the crowdfunding effort) is likely to come back and bite you.

To all involved: it's hard enough for any pro to make a living doing this stuff -- I would've hoped that you guys could work together to address the issues on the bike instead of financially harming one another.
Last edited by: spudone: Apr 26, 17 17:03
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
One more thing, Diamond may have to prove damages. This thread may open you up to additional claims by Diamond. I would pull this until you seek the advice of an attorney.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
good luck
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Finally! This proves what i said months ago. I've seen the exact issues you had on my buddies bike. He's still riding it, not sure for how much longer though. PM me if you want to get in contact with him.
Last edited by: bikecritic: Apr 26, 17 17:32
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Terribly sorry to hear that Rapp. I'll hit up your GoFundMe when I get home. BTW if the frames are that prone to issues it sounds like something the CPSC should investigate.

With all of that said, I hope Dan allows TJ to tell his side of the story at well. While I don't "know" TJ by any stretch, I've chatted with him a few times over the years and he always struck me as friendly and laid-back. I'm very surprised that he hit you with such an onerous lawsuit given that you leaving Dimond didn't really cause any material damage to his brand.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [bikecritic] [ In reply to ]
 
One thing you should do, Jordan, is start getting contact info of other Dimond owners who have had similar issues.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
 
Orbilius wrote:
I suspect you will prevail, and Diamond's brand image will suffer greatly.

I am sure there are some attorneys on the forum that may appreciate being able to review the exact language in your contract related to providing a bike suitable for training and racing. You might want to consider posting that section.

I have to ask - what's the upside for Diamond here?

Definitely the bold bit, at the moment. Not sure I would have posted all that information quite so publicly, at this point, if I was the OP.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
 
Will be watching this thread.....

I had a Dimond for a short time. No issues with it but ultimately couldn't get my fit where I wanted it.

As with any contract both parties hope that it gathers dust and never has to be pulled out. Once the 'nuclear option' of a lawsuit is executed both parties typically end up losing...even the one that 'wins' the lawsuit or settlement.

I have gut feeling on this but without all the facts I will withhold any comments for now.

I hope the truth prevails.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Damn. Best of luck with your battle.

Matt
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
I will give this some serious thought to this but I need to sleep on it. I am all for transparency as you know. I am also one that hates to be silenced or threatened to be silenced. Despite being a bull in a China shop myself I respect the both of you. I know how much you care about your family. I can still remember a conversation with Jesse Thomas post Wildflower where we were talking about bombing down one of the descents and how we were both on the brakes as a couple of the other guys just took them full speed with oncoming traffic, passing traffic, etc. Frankly, triathlon is not worth the risk of life or death, and especially with a family to provide for.

There is a reason I am on my Trek. Yes, I had to pay for every single one of them, but I also trusted that they had done their due diligence in producing one of the safest bikes they could and I was happy to pay for a bike that I knew I would be safe on. It is partially while I am so critical of all new brands - like Ventum over the past 18 months, or just of Alto this morning. I just don't trust that companies that pop up over night have the experience of companies that have been in the business for 25 years and with the pace of business you have to move fast, and moving fast leads to mistakes.

This is certainly a serious watershed moment in triathlon. Frankly, there are a whole host of things that have been swept under the rug and I am sure Dan could write quite the book with stories. Ultimately it takes a lot of balls to stand up and fight and I can certainly admire that. It is easy to go with the crowd and the grain, it is hard to stand up and fight.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Tricoastal] [ In reply to ]
 
Tricoastal wrote:
So you have the money to pay for an attorney as indicated by your not wanting to dip into savings comment but instead you'd rather have other random people pay your legal fees just to save you money? I wish you luck in your legal fight against TJ and Dimond but the GoFundMe part is kinda strange.


Being a pro triathlete is hard, and not worth much money, particularly as a journeyman-level pro like Rappstar here. And triathlon has no union infrastructure for support. I think the appeal is for the athlete community to support the professional class against predatory behavior by more affluent and powerful entities. That protects not just Rappstar, but sets a precedent to enforce a minimum level of respect for professionals.

That's assuming that Rapp's account of is accurate. I'd still really, really, like to hear Dimond's side, but somehow I doubt we will hear it here. (though if we do, I'm making a beer and popcorn run).
Last edited by: trail: Apr 26, 17 17:22
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Yep, it's a top down problem with them.
I'll be donating for sure Jordan. Anything else I can do, let me know. Best of luck.

P.S. Come to Desert Tri again next year. I think I could take you! ;-)

Salton Sea Triathlon Club
“I swim to get to the bike. I run because nobody gives a shit about aquabike.”
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
I wish all parties the best on each side Jordan, TJ. etc. I think it would be best if this thread is pulled though for all parties. Jordan will hopefully get the resolution he needs. TJ/Dimond can hopefully resolve any defects and move forward with high quality product. I can't see anything really positive coming from this thread, unless both can walk away from this and move forward. No lawsuit, all quality issues resolved. Fingers crossed here for everyone in this.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
On the other side of the coin there is me and I bet a ton of others who have had absolutely no problems with their Dimonds. Over 5000 miles of hot sweaty rides still wonderful. Is there something we are not seeing?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Good luck. Sure hope Dan thinks you have "rock solid demonstrable proof" or you're in danger of getting banned.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
 
I would like to hear from both sides as well and I hope Dan give each party the opportunity to express their opinions in regards to this situation.

This is a thread that you copy now before it disappears.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [JMike] [ In reply to ]
 
JMike wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
So when will ST readers get to hear Dimond's side of the story?


Exactly

As a start, I'd like to see the timing between the start of conversations with Diamondback and the decision to dump Dimond.

I'm not a lawyer but I don't see the correlation between Jordan's go fund me story and Dimond suing Diamondback...

Any legal minds care to weigh in.

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Dimond isn't winning any good will points on this and a few other issues that are near the top right now. This seems really silly of them and it will look terrible.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
 
The claim against Diamondback is going to be tortious interference with a business arrangement. If Diamondback reached out, knowing Rapp was under contract, and urged him to break with Dimond, those are bad facts. If Rapp reached out, that is another story.

On this thread and the advisability of posting, it is risky as it could end up in a libel or slander claim. Fun to read though!
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.
Last edited by: SBRcoffee: Apr 26, 17 17:54
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
 
I've had my Dimond for 3 years now and have had zero issues or problems.

As a manufacturer of bicycles, I am surprised Dan is allowing this thread to continue regarding claims/accusations of unsafe frames in a public forum.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm guessing this post will get TJ to drop the suit in return for removal of the thread. I mean what terrible business tact from TJ. I'm taking an educated guess that a large % of Dimond sales are consummated via the ST community. Rapp is a known entity here and by and large highly respected. Can only envision this having far more downside for Dimond than for Rapp.

Wish Romulus was here.

Good Luck Jordan.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [davews09] [ In reply to ]
 
Interesting to see how this plays out... especially when Diamond basically made their name on ST.

http://www.tripothesis.com - Comprehensive Tri and running training plans starting at only $10.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
Pull the thread?

Dude, you're about to tell the hot stripper to put her thong and bra back on after she just got on stage. ;)

Dimond is suing Rapp for $150K? That's ridiculous and quite frankly tells me a lot about that company. Maybe TJ will come here to give his perspective. But I doubt it. I'd love to hear that explanation as to how they came up with that number.

There have been numerous discussions about the Dimond bike and design amongst the ST family on this forum. I for one would want to know about potential issues on a bike if I were riding it. I think the thread should stay up, and allow other Dimond owners to chime in (good or bad). And if TJ or any member of the Dimond family wants to tell their side, they have that opportunity.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [trail] [ In reply to ]
 
trail wrote:
Tricoastal wrote:
So you have the money to pay for an attorney as indicated by your not wanting to dip into savings comment but instead you'd rather have other random people pay your legal fees just to save you money?.


I'd still really, really, like to hear Dimond's side, but somehow I doubt we will hear it here. (though if we do, I'm making a beer and popcorn run).


This is a very interesting point....and if it was Joe Blow Pro, I would totally dismiss supporting Joe Blow Pro. However, this is a hobby for me and early on Rapp took time to answer PM's i sent him.....which I thought was very cool and something he did not have to do. I don't mind paying for Pro level intel.

Now....I don't mind paying for Pro level intel, but I do have an issue with his bank account staying flat while mine decreases to support him. Pro's make a choice to spend their life exercising....something that is a lot more fun than my day job. With deciding to be a Pro Triathlete....you give up some of the perks that are associated with waking up every day and going to a real job. That is a risk and a known factor that Pro's know before they choose their lifestyle....so I don't really feel sorry for him (or other Pros). So before I submit my donation, I would like to know if Rapp is coming out of his pocket at all (which I completely imagine he plans to).

Lastly, this is Dimond v Rapp .....not Specialized v Rapp. Dimond is a new company that is small. They had to pay start up fees, R&D design, manufacturing start up costs....etc etc. They have not sold a ton of bikes. And it sounds like they have had to spend money tweaking their design and taking care of customer issues. I cannot imagine that they are even cash flow positive. Are they really in a financial position to support a law suit??

Rapp...what would be helpful, would be to let people understand a little more (if you can) of the process....and gather funds a long the way. ie. step 1) I need to retain a lawyer, I think it will cost $XXX step 2) I need to pay for paperwork/research/filings.

I am guessing by the time you get to step 5 that the whole ordeal will be over, because Dimond cannot afford to support the lawsuit, and they will realize that the only press they are getting is around a lawsuit/negative....which will be detrimental to their business...and you will no longer need donations.

Oh....and "in before the thread gets pulled"!
Last edited by: Mike Alexander: Apr 26, 17 18:01
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.

Good point. Additionally, it seems atypical for Diamondback to not cover is legal fee's, i am guessing there is more to this than meets the eye. In the end you are under contractual obligations unless formally released, we all know how useful verbal agreements are in the court of law.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
No shade from me. Kudos to you for posting this. As much as a sympathize for Jordan (and donated to his campaign), he just slid down a notch in my book for having pimped a defective, and potentially dangerous, product.
Last edited by: davews09: Apr 26, 17 18:24
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Mike Alexander] [ In reply to ]
 
Mike Alexander wrote:
trail wrote:
Tricoastal wrote:
So you have the money to pay for an attorney as indicated by your not wanting to dip into savings comment but instead you'd rather have other random people pay your legal fees just to save you money?.


I'd still really, really, like to hear Dimond's side, but somehow I doubt we will hear it here. (though if we do, I'm making a beer and popcorn run).


This is a very interesting point....and if it was Joe Blow Pro, I would totally dismiss supporting Joe Blow Pro. However, this is a hobby for me and early on Rapp took time to answer PM's i sent him.....which I thought was very cool and something he did not have to do. I don't mind paying for Pro level intel.

Now....I don't mind paying for Pro level intel, but I do have an issue with his bank account staying flat while mine decreases to support him. Pro's make a choice to spend their life exercising....something that is a lot more fun than my day job. With deciding to be a Pro Triathlete....you give up some of the perks that are associated with waking up every day and going to a real job. That is a risk and a known factor that Pro's know before they choose their lifestyle....so I don't really feel sorry for him (or other Pros). So before I submit my donation, I would like to know if Rapp is coming out of his pocket at all (which I completely imagine he plans to).

Lastly, this is Dimond v Rapp .....not Specialized v Rapp. Dimond is a new company that is small. They had to pay start up fees, R&D design, manufacturing start up costs....etc etc. They have not sold a ton of bikes. And it sounds like they have had to spend money tweaking their design and taking care of customer issues. I cannot imagine that they are even cash flow positive. Are they really in a financial position to support a law suit??

Rapp...what would be helpful, would be to let people understand a little more (if you can) of the process....and gather funds a long the way. ie. step 1) I need to retain a lawyer, I think it will cost $XXX step 2) I need to pay for paperwork/research/filings.

I am guessing by the time you get to step 5 that the whole ordeal will be over, because Dimond cannot afford to support the lawsuit, and they will realize that the only press they are getting is around a lawsuit/negative....which will be detrimental to their business...and you will no longer need donations.

Oh....and "in before the thread gets pulled"!

Diamond might have lawyers on retainer or as colleagues. Generally speaking, the defense needs to dish out for defensive fees to prove himself in court. I think Diamond can get away with way less charges than Rapp and expect some sort of settlement. What they forget is that suing someone for 150k over something so minuscule will ruin their rep.

http://www.tripothesis.com - Comprehensive Tri and running training plans starting at only $10.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
In case you don't know, Chris Blick is also being sued.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [hydark] [ In reply to ]
 
hydark wrote:
Mike Alexander wrote:
trail wrote:
Tricoastal wrote:
So you have the money to pay for an attorney as indicated by your not wanting to dip into savings comment but instead you'd rather have other random people pay your legal fees just to save you money?.


I'd still really, really, like to hear Dimond's side, but somehow I doubt we will hear it here. (though if we do, I'm making a beer and popcorn run).


This is a very interesting point....and if it was Joe Blow Pro, I would totally dismiss supporting Joe Blow Pro. However, this is a hobby for me and early on Rapp took time to answer PM's i sent him.....which I thought was very cool and something he did not have to do. I don't mind paying for Pro level intel.

Now....I don't mind paying for Pro level intel, but I do have an issue with his bank account staying flat while mine decreases to support him. Pro's make a choice to spend their life exercising....something that is a lot more fun than my day job. With deciding to be a Pro Triathlete....you give up some of the perks that are associated with waking up every day and going to a real job. That is a risk and a known factor that Pro's know before they choose their lifestyle....so I don't really feel sorry for him (or other Pros). So before I submit my donation, I would like to know if Rapp is coming out of his pocket at all (which I completely imagine he plans to).

Lastly, this is Dimond v Rapp .....not Specialized v Rapp. Dimond is a new company that is small. They had to pay start up fees, R&D design, manufacturing start up costs....etc etc. They have not sold a ton of bikes. And it sounds like they have had to spend money tweaking their design and taking care of customer issues. I cannot imagine that they are even cash flow positive. Are they really in a financial position to support a law suit??

Rapp...what would be helpful, would be to let people understand a little more (if you can) of the process....and gather funds a long the way. ie. step 1) I need to retain a lawyer, I think it will cost $XXX step 2) I need to pay for paperwork/research/filings.

I am guessing by the time you get to step 5 that the whole ordeal will be over, because Dimond cannot afford to support the lawsuit, and they will realize that the only press they are getting is around a lawsuit/negative....which will be detrimental to their business...and you will no longer need donations.

Oh....and "in before the thread gets pulled"!


Diamond might have lawyers on retainer or as colleagues. Generally speaking, the defense needs to dish out for defensive fees to prove himself in court. I think Diamond can get away with way less charges than Rapp and expect some sort of settlement. What they forget is that suing someone for 150k over something so minuscule will ruin their rep.

Even if Rapp's story is only half right, I still think their reputation will be damaged. He doesn't like the bike, let him go, forget the contract. Dimond's version of events better be pretty bloody good.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [cknoxpRTR] [ In reply to ]
 
cknoxpRTR wrote:
I am surprised Dan is allowing this thread to continue regarding claims/accusations of unsafe frames in a public forum.

I'm not surprised in the least.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
More like Cubc Zrconia, amirite???
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [dhr] [ In reply to ]
 
dhr wrote:
More like Cubc Zrconia, amirite???

That's hilarious! Thanks for a good laugh 😃
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [davews09] [ In reply to ]
 
davews09 wrote:
No shade from me. Kudos to you for posting this. As much as a sympathize for Jordan (and donated to his campaign), he just slide down a notch in my book for having pimped a defective, and potentially dangerous, product.

This x100000000

How would u feel if u or someone close to u have a accident because that person bought a frame that he was pimpin?

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [cknoxpRTR] [ In reply to ]
 
as to andy coggan's point, dimond has already told its side, via its complaint (i would have struck this thread from that site were there no filed complaint).

when i read jordan's post it seemed to me to limited to jordan's personal experience with his frames. (historically that sort of post i tend to allow.)

that established, when i saw the thread i immediately apprised the other side, making the offer to host either its complaint or whatever it might want to say. i'm not going to limit this community's ears and eyes to simply hearing one side.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [cknoxpRTR] [ In reply to ]
 
I am pretty sure that Rapp asked Dan if he could post this before he did it.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
 
Ron_Burgundy wrote:
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.

Good point. Additionally, it seems atypical for Diamondback to not cover is legal fee's, i am guessing there is more to this than meets the eye. In the end you are under contractual obligations unless formally released, we all know how useful verbal agreements are in the court of law.

Fees plural
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Is there a way to access this complaint from the public domain? I have 0 legal expertise.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
as to andy coggan's point, dimond has already told its side, via its complaint (i would have struck this thread from that site were there no filed complaint).


I can't seem to find a public record of the complaint. And it's not in this thread or on the GoFundMe page, as far as I can tell. Could you direct us to it?
Last edited by: trail: Apr 26, 17 18:24
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Maybe I was wrong.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Want me to send you the contact info for two of my clients ... Would be glad to forward their info. I put both onto P5's.
Last edited by: Slowman: Apr 26, 17 18:56
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Count me in for support!



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.

Good post. Anybody who gives Rapp money for this is dumb. Plain and simple. The fact this thread is still up is amazing. Here's some free legal advice Jordan: Delete this thread immediately. And I thought you were supposed to be one of the "smart" pro triathletes.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
 
Ron_Burgundy wrote:
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.


Good point. Additionally, it seems atypical for Diamondback to not cover is legal fee's, i am guessing there is more to this than meets the eye. In the end you are under contractual obligations unless formally released, we all know how useful verbal agreements are in the court of law.

Hmmm. I do think this warrants a response from Rapp.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [trail] [ In reply to ]
 
Check iowa courts online. Not sure if you need a user name and pass
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
ajthomas wrote:
In case you don't know, Chris Blick is also being sued.

That's f***ing BS. Chris is such a nice guy and he drove all over the country repping Dimond. He once drove 150 miles out of his way so I could demo a Dimond early on. What else could you possibly ask for from a product rep?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [davews09] [ In reply to ]
 
davews09 wrote:
Is there a way to access this complaint from the public domain? I have 0 legal expertise.

Of course there is.

Des Moines County Clerk. You have to pay $25 to read the original petition. This is how I know that Dimond is also suing Chris (and Ventum).
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [trail] [ In reply to ]
 
trail wrote:
Slowman wrote:
as to andy coggan's point, dimond has already told its side, via its complaint (i would have struck this thread from that site were there no filed complaint).


I can't seem to find a public record of the complaint. And it's not in this thread or on the GoFundMe page, as far as I can tell. Could you direct us to it?

i had the complaint sent to me, just to make sure it existed (i felt that this was a condition of letting this thread stand).

i don't feel comfortable posting it because i'm not a party to the dispute. i'll post it if one side or the other asks me to (because each side is in possession of it). assuming it's a public record, if any of you want to post it i won't stop you. it's ruster v rapp, the iowa district court polk county. case number is LACL137402.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
I don't think that you should put this information out there. If he was to chime in, that's good. He's a friend and I don't know if this is appropriate.

This sucks. Really sucks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
I've had no issues with my Dimond (yet and hopefully never will) but this thread has my full attention. I do most of my riding on my other tri bike on the trainer and only bust out the Dimond for races and very few training rides. So I don't put the miles and wear and tear on it that Jordan does so my level of stress testing the bike is nowhere near his. Now I must think about having a defective product, which isn't cool since this piece of carbon isl all that is holding me up from eating pavement at 20-30 mph. I now also have a bike whose resale value probably just plummeted when Jordan hit submit.

I'm also a wee bit annoyed in Jordan pimping a product that he knew had issues. That's not sitting well with me either. Jordan's endorsement of the product played a very, very minor role in my decision to buy but it nevertheless played a role. Had this post came out when I was shopping for a new bike I can guarantee you that I would have bought something else. Guaranteed. Not that Jordan's allegations are fact at this point but it's more than enough to concern me.

I've had the bike for over a year and had no buyer's remorse until now.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Last edited by: The GMAN: Apr 26, 17 18:46
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
Per Stan's permission, mind posting the doc so we can all review?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
ajthomas wrote:
davews09 wrote:
Is there a way to access this complaint from the public domain? I have 0 legal expertise.

Of course there is.

Des Moines County Clerk. You have to pay $25 to read the original petition. This is how I know that Dimond is also suing Chris (and Ventum).

So taking the conspiracy angle, and a honest question then, is there any chance there is some foul play going on with the other Dimond thread. I mean if Dimond knew they had a potential poop storm on their hands, wouldn't it be prudent of them to deal with the customer as best as they cold. Here we have Ventum being served a lawsuit, then magically stepping up to the plate to take care of a customer. Scratching my head... I mean seriously unless Dimond just served the lawsuit to Ventum as retaliatory move, but it sounds like based on Rapp it was served some time ago.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Tucsontriguy] [ In reply to ]
 
I suspect that given the number of failed frames that have popped up over the years, the molds for various sizes have been tweaked over and over a number of times, resulting in improvements here, and possibly worse issues elsewhere.

It's also possible that a majority of the problems have come from a specific size or sizes, while others have tighter tolerances are less susceptible to problems.

I for one have a medium frame that I bought used (and broken) on eBay. I did that knowing what I was getting myself into.

My frame was cracked at the seat collar in the same way as Jordan's. I reinforced it with 5 additional layers of carbon, and replaced the post with a new one that fit a bit better. It had to be sanded down a fair amount, but through perserverence I was able to get it to work.

I am quite light (160lbs), so I have never had any trouble with my beam. I also have the older model that has an extra bolt fixing the beam in place.

Jordan was an exceptional ambassador for the brand, and helped me through those issues as well as he could. He did not bad mouth Diamond, and always assured me that they were committed to improving the quality and we're taking it seriously.

I believe that Jordan believed in Diamond, and stood by them as long as he could. It's sad that it has come to this, but it's also clear what a ridiculous lawsuit it is.

Jordan never called Diamond out on this, so the absolute maximum that they should have considered asking for due to breach of contract is the total amount he was paid over the life of the contract. What a crock of Shit 150k is.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
Quote:
Scratching my head...
Same - about the whole thing. Doesn't seem a good business move to file in the first place. The only thing that came to mind was maybe they were already planning to wind down / stop the bike business, in which case the PR wouldn't matter much.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
When you are suing regarding breach of contract, and stating that the breach of contract results in loss of future revenue, you need to put on a show, so to speak, to demonstrate that.

So you sue your sale rep for violating a NDA presumably, and sue his new informer for stealing company secrets.

You sue the employee for the breach of contract, as well as the new employer for their part of the breach.

Now, Dimond isn't actually interested in lawyering up against diamondback. (Resources and what not, and probably also a terrible case). But they need to make the appearance that Jordan's actions have a severe impact on future earnings.

I have a lot of questions about the contract language. Jordan's story is a bit curious, but despite him lying re: Dimond's quality until very recently, I will take it all as truthful. The 150k figure is amusing - they're going to have to prove that Jordan's marketing power in year 2 was with 30 bike sales. Obviously the terms of the termination of the contract will be important to see.

Lastly, I don't see how Dimond has the resources to go on a lawsuit quest.

----
@adamwfurlong
Last edited by: afurlong: Apr 26, 17 18:59
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm wondering if you can explain this in your post:

"The frame I received for Kona 2015 was demonstrably worse. Unfortunately, due to the compressed timeline that results from the far too common "we want you on a new frame for Kona!" attitude - something that I have agreed to more times than I should have, the true depth of these defects did not become apparent for quite some time. As an engineer, I'm sad to say that it took me until July of 2016 to realize just how damaged this frame was. It had the same issues with the saddle rail clamp, which should have been a red flag. And the new seat-post binder wasn't any better - and was in fact worse - than the old one."

Considering that you posted this in Oct '16:

"The seatpost clamp has been entirely redesigned. The original design was a "pinch" design that was super sensitive to any variance in tolerances on the frame or seatpost. They've since replaced that with a back-to-front plate design that is much better and with which I have had no issues. I can post pics showing the difference if it is not clear."

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [chicanery] [ In reply to ]
 
chicanery wrote:
I suspect that given the number of failed frames that have popped up over the years, the molds for various sizes have been tweaked over and over a number of times, resulting in improvements here, and possibly worse issues elsewhere.

It's also possible that a majority of the problems have come from a specific size or sizes, while others have tighter tolerances are less susceptible to problems.

I for one have a medium frame that I bought used (and broken) on eBay. I did that knowing what I was getting myself into.

My frame was cracked at the seat collar in the same way as Jordan's. I reinforced it with 5 additional layers of carbon, and replaced the post with a new one that fit a bit better. It had to be sanded down a fair amount, but through perserverence I was able to get it to work.

I am quite light (160lbs), so I have never had any trouble with my beam. I also have the older model that has an extra bolt fixing the beam in place.

Jordan was an exceptional ambassador for the brand, and helped me through those issues as well as he could. He did not bad mouth Diamond, and always assured me that they were committed to improving the quality and we're taking it seriously.

I believe that Jordan believed in Diamond, and stood by them as long as he could. It's sad that it has come to this, but it's also clear what a ridiculous lawsuit it is.

Jordan never called Diamond out on this, so the absolute maximum that they should have considered asking for due to breach of contract is the total amount he was paid over the life of the contract. What a crock of Shit 150k is.

That is some dedication to go thru that hassle. Was it disclosed to you on purchase??? Reading backwards, I know have to think that Dimond itself is in serious trouble. Honestly when someone posted that TJ was driving to Texas my ears went up. That didn't make sense. He has yelled at me for years about sitting in the car for long haul drives in my hamstrings. Some things are starting to make sense. I have to imagine with the competitive business model in bikes combined with high rework rate of these defective frames and being made in the USA they just can't compete.

Last year Catalyst Cycling, Carbon disc covers bit the bullet. They couldn't turn a profit on the $300 covers. It was too bad because they were awesome and light.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Tucsontriguy] [ In reply to ]
 
"Want me to send you the contact info for two of my clients ... Would be glad to forward their info. I put both onto P5's."

point of order. i edited your post. you're relating a couple of stories secondhand. if anybody with firsthand experience wants to talk about his firsthand experience, i'm a bit more comfortable hosting that speech.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [davews09] [ In reply to ]
 
davews09 wrote:
Per Stan's permission, mind posting the doc so we can all review?
Not sure that's a good idea. Believe it or not, copyright law applies to... errm... the law:

https://arstechnica.co.uk/...o-copyright-the-law/

Further, this little gem brought to the rest of us by the state of Georgia:

https://arstechnica.com/...a-legal-code-online/

Asinine yes but that's the law.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Reading backwards, I know have to think that Dimond itself is in serious trouble. Honestly when someone posted that TJ was driving to Texas my ears went up. That didn't make sense. He has yelled at me for years about sitting in the car for long haul drives in my hamstrings. Some things are starting to make sense. I have to imagine with the competitive business model in bikes combined with high rework rate of these defective frames and being made in the USA they just can't compete.

Last year Catalyst Cycling, Carbon disc covers bit the bullet. They couldn't turn a profit on the $300 covers. It was too bad because they were awesome and light.


This^^^

They sue a well known commodity and two bike brands including their key competitor in the 'non traditional' tri bike space. Certainly appears to be a 'back up against the wall' type move to generate some cash without much regard to the brand/reputation.

It's too bad....I liked their story and am always a fan of innovation. I'm sure they knew it was a tall order to come in and succeed in a highly competitive space.
Last edited by: jb4iu: Apr 26, 17 19:18
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
 
kmill23 wrote:
This is why I never trust anything a sponsored athlete has to say about the equipment he or she is using.

Good luck in the fight. But like others have said, this is a no-win for everyone but the lawyers.

Out of curiosity, so who do u trust? Do u trust the salesman at the store, do u trust the magazine writer, do u trust your coach, your fellow peers. If it is your peers, do some peers matter more than others?


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
I did know what I was buying. I purchased the frame because I love beam bikes, and it was selling cheaper than a Zipp 2001 at the time. I also have the requisite skills to fix the frame, and honestly it sounded like a great challenge. It was around $2000 iirc. Looking back, I paid less for my Pearson, and sold my Falco for less as well, and those were both fully functional.

However, I suspect you are correct about the company's financial situation. The fork for instance was sold for far too much $$$ (to try to catch up?) and/or pay for the Marquise development, but the volumes are just too low.

$600 would have been a fine price, but for $1200 (and a long wait) I just bought a P5 fork and did a little bondo work to mate it to the frame perfectly.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [spot] [ In reply to ]
 
spot wrote:
I'm wondering if you can explain this in your post:

"The frame I received for Kona 2015 was demonstrably worse. Unfortunately, due to the compressed timeline that results from the far too common "we want you on a new frame for Kona!" attitude - something that I have agreed to more times than I should have, the true depth of these defects did not become apparent for quite some time. As an engineer, I'm sad to say that it took me until July of 2016 to realize just how damaged this frame was. It had the same issues with the saddle rail clamp, which should have been a red flag. And the new seat-post binder wasn't any better - and was in fact worse - than the old one."

Considering that you posted this in Oct '16:

"The seatpost clamp has been entirely redesigned. The original design was a "pinch" design that was super sensitive to any variance in tolerances on the frame or seatpost. They've since replaced that with a back-to-front plate design that is much better and with which I have had no issues. I can post pics showing the difference if it is not clear."

I don't think it really matters does it? He had multiple concerns about multiple frames that Dimond sent him, which he emailed Dimond about, providing video evidence, he wanted out of the contract, it should be a case of doing the "right thing" rather than suing.

Having to epoxy the saddle rails is just whack..
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [spudone] [ In reply to ]
 
spudone wrote:
Quote:
Scratching my head...
Same - about the whole thing. Doesn't seem a good business move to file in the first place. The only thing that came to mind was maybe they were already planning to wind down / stop the bike business, in which case the PR wouldn't matter much.

I had similar thoughts. Suing an entity like Diamondback... I mean, what could you possibly hope to accomplish? It's not like Jordan went to Reap (another beam bike co) and they could claim they stole "trade secrets". Smells like a bit of a Hail Mary banking on a summary judgement and then a settlement and/or some of the parties not being able to adequately represent themselves.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
i'm not going to limit this community's ears and eyes to simply hearing one side.

Wow
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
 
As I stated, they are establishing that all of these events have happened in breach of contract and are damaging to their business.

----
@adamwfurlong
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
They are really firsthand because I attempted to fix the issues with the dimond bikes before strongly urging them onto a safe bike. I can probably dig through my old emails and find the photos I took that I send to Dimond in regards to the cracks(which I never got a reply to). One of my customers filed a dispute with Amex because the bike was 3 weeks old.. but I understand you editing. No problems with that at all.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Did any frames actually fail or were you just not happy with the loose tolerances?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
ajthomas wrote:
This is how I know that Dimond is also suing Chris (and Ventum).

I can't uncover any evidence that Ruster is suing Ventum. The only cases I'm uncovering that Ruster is party to are against Rapp and Blick personally. In the Blick case, Ruster served subpoena's on Ventum, which makes sense, but they aren't suing Ventum as far as I can tell.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Mike Alexander] [ In reply to ]
 
Agreed. I mean everyone here would know after hitting submit about be a $%!@storm and his post obviously leaves many questions. TJ rides (or rode) this bike and I believe and others believe he wouldn't put himself in danger either personally or form a professional standpoint. I mean these two guys are in my top 5 athletes I follow plus Mr Gerlach on this thread who also seems to be having a hard time consuming all this.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
kileyay wrote:
ajthomas wrote:
This is how I know that Dimond is also suing Chris (and Ventum).


I can't uncover any evidence that Ruster is suing Ventum. The only cases I'm uncovering that Ruster is party to are against Rapp and Blick personally. In the Blick case, Ruster served subpoena's on Ventum, which makes sense, but they aren't suing Ventum as far as I can tell.

Did Chris have a Non Compete, as part of his employment with Dimond?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
 
Dilbert wrote:
davews09 wrote:
Per Stan's permission, mind posting the doc so we can all review?

Not sure that's a good idea. Believe it or not, copyright law applies to... errm... the law:

https://arstechnica.co.uk/...o-copyright-the-law/

Further, this little gem brought to the rest of us by the state of Georgia:

https://arstechnica.com/...a-legal-code-online/

Asinine yes but that's the law.

There should be a distinction between statements of claim and legislation. The State of Georgia did not create the SOC, the lawyers for Dimond did. If anything, they own copyright on the SOC.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Jordan, a quick question on the beam-frame mate location and the "fail safe" mode. If at that joint the interface fails (not a carbon crack, but the friction holding the beam in place is insufficient to suspend the rider weight), when the beam "sinks" how low can it go? Is there a "bottom out" position that would not result in any calamity, or would it just sink right down to the rear tire.

In the aviation world we had the categories safety critical and mission critical. If your system failed but you just lost the mission that was less problematic than the system failing and the air crew crashing. In this case, is your issue a mission critical one where you can't finish the training ride or the race, or is it safety critical where a rider could get injured/hurt? This is unclear in this thread and I have not seen the design close enough to know the fail safe mode.
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Apr 26, 17 19:54
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
Did Chris go to work for them, taking along considerable insider knowledge or trade secrets?

If so...Jesus what a mess. I would trade my Dimond for a Ventum straight away to be rid of the heart ache.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
I don't see how any one could support you without hearing Dimond's side of the story. Hopefully we can get the complaint and subsequent legal docs posted, or a word from Dimond, so people can make an informed decision on whether to help the cause.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
kmill23 wrote:
This is why I never trust anything a sponsored athlete has to say about the equipment he or she is using.

Good luck in the fight. But like others have said, this is a no-win for everyone but the lawyers.

Out of curiosity, so who do u trust? Do u trust the salesman at the store, do u trust the magazine writer, do u trust your coach, your fellow peers. If it is your peers, do some peers matter more than others?

Legitimate and logical question.

I tend to trust folks who have the same access to equipment as I do and use the equipment in similar fashion, and, in general, have financial means similar to mine. Those guys will be honest with me about the reliability of their equipment. They don't have access to brand new frames/wheels/etc. for races or when a slight issue arises. They can't hide if they had to send their bike back for warranty work.

I probably am not explaining my reasoning very well. Does that make sense? If not, I'll try to reword it after a bit of sleep. I am in a state of fatigue and oxygen debt after just finishing a nasty trainer session. :-)
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
I've been thinking, 'how would I handle this situation if I were Rapp?'

With what has been provided, I'm curious what others think would have been (and/or could be) the best strategy for Jordan...

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
 
I don't agree with Jordan on all of this but it is quite telling that he has publically been with Diamondback for roughly 1/2 of a calendar year, & today is the first we have heard of his issues with Dimond.

If he had posted all of his grievances prior to or just after leaving Dimond, I would have a different opinion on the situation. Had TJ not sued him, I think it is safe (bad pun) to assume we never would have heard about this.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
for what? for switching to ventum?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
 
Ron_Burgundy wrote:
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.

Good point. Additionally, it seems atypical for Diamondback to not cover is legal fee's, i am guessing there is more to this than meets the eye. In the end you are under contractual obligations unless formally released, we all know how useful verbal agreements are in the court of law.

If one party breaks the contract- like never supplying a suitable bike, and the other party notifies them of breach of contract, generally you are no longer under contract. Of course if one party disagrees, it gets litigted.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
InstagramFacebook
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
 
milesthedog wrote:
I've been thinking, 'how would I handle this situation if I were Rapp?'

With what has been provided, I'm curious what others think would have been (and/or could be) the best strategy for Jordan...

He should use Craig Alexander v Orbea as a point of strategy reference. I don't think I ever heard the outcome of that lawsuit.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [turningscrews] [ In reply to ]
 
turningscrews wrote:
I don't agree with Jordan on all of this but it is quite telling that he has publically been with Diamondback for roughly 1/2 of a calendar year, & today is the first we have heard of his issues with Dimond.

If he had posted all of his grievances prior to or just after leaving Dimond, I would have a different opinion on the situation. Had TJ not sued him, I think it is safe (bad pun) to assume we never would have heard about this.

Was this the reason he couldn't post pictures of his Diamondback until IMTX....and he posted those pictures (his bike build) last week and this is now coming up less than a week later. Did he ever address why he couldn't post pictures of his new bike??
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
 
If you have such an ongoing bad image of Dan and ST, why are you even here?

Andrew Coggan wrote:
cknoxpRTR wrote:
I am surprised Dan is allowing this thread to continue regarding claims/accusations of unsafe frames in a public forum.

I'm not surprised in the least.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [adambeston] [ In reply to ]
 
adambeston wrote:
Agreed. I mean everyone here would know after hitting submit about be a $%!@storm and his post obviously leaves many questions. TJ rides (or rode) this bike and I believe and others believe he wouldn't put himself in danger either personally or form a professional standpoint. I mean these two guys are in my top 5 athletes I follow plus Mr Gerlach on this thread who also seems to be having a hard time consuming all this.


Jordan has always been very kind to me IMO. Like others have said, he doesn't NOT answer an email, DM, PM, TXT, whatever. Usually with quite a bit of thought and words. That is strange as a pro triathlete and frankly a lot of work. I can't imagine the number of people that reach out to Jordan. TJ is very similar in a lot of regards, but mainly deals with with lot of pros seeking out his advice. TJ has been a mentor of sorts to me as well. He just jabbed me last week asking why I didn't bring the Supersonic 20mm to the wind tunnel, even though I was the one many years ago telling him to test it. There is nothing more I enjoyed than walking into a pro meeting and having some jabs with either one of these two. Frankly I like them both and I hold them both in high regard.

Fwiw, I have talked to TJ personally since Jordan left but way back in January. I talked to him about Dimond, where he wants to take the company. He has a really great vision (which I won't speak to and frankly I have no idea if the vision is still possible) along with some other projects that I think would be awesome for humanity, I mean truly awesome. When I think of TJ and Jordan against other pros, I just think how inadequate they are in comparison. The number of things these two juggle and are still are able to perform at a high-level is absolutely astounding when you think about it. They are both big thinkers. They are both stubborn, but in a way society needs. This squabble is interesting to me as I can't help but think we could have all gotten in a room and settled this without this result. The reason it has gotten to this point really does have me scratching my head, as both these guys are smart.

What it comes to it. It is not ok to put out unsafe product, especially when it comes to something like a bike, but I don't know if we are there yet to make that determination. I don't think TJ would ride a product he thought was unsafe. I have seen him take his Dimond down Lemmon, bombing down the mountain at 50+ mph.

Lastly, for Jordan it is tough. I can see some questioning Jordan's moral compass when it comes to the safety of bikes and his recommendation. Sport is weird, there is a reason I posted this paragraph in my own GoFundMe last week:

"Why Are We Asking For Funding: Have you ever subscribed to Consumer Reports? Why? Hopefully you recognize the benefit of independent data without the influence manufacturers put on the both the testing and data. Any athlete that has signed a "Sponsorship Contract" knows there is always a line that says something like: "You will not say anything that negatively impacts our brand or specific products"

It comes back to college for me and interviewing when companies used to ask, "tell me about time when you were faced with a moral dilemma and how you sided".


Last year I wrote the following piece on skinsuits. I was asked to take it down but I refused. Needless to say I wasn't invited back this year. The reality is that a free bottom TYR wetsuit (pun intended) and skinsuit is a very small allowance. It was actually a part of team concept that I was interested evaluating and learned that having a team manager telling me what to use and wear doesn't work. But I am not faced with the difficult task of navigating these slightly larger $20,000+ contracts. I never have, and frankly because I have a bit of reputation of "not playing by the rules", I never probably will have any substantial contract and that is COMPLETELY ok.


Anyone that knows me knows I have a super simple life. I don't buy extravagant life things like dinner, entertainment, personal possessions cars, expensive houses, rent etc. I commute everywhere by bike and outside of my race bike I mostly ride beater bike that are big and heavy, and that is totally fine but I won't pretend to know what it is like to have 20K, 50K, or 100K contract and the responsibility that comes along with it.

But my point is that I am sure this sat on Jordan's mind. If people remember his black/white/grey blog post you can see he does really struggle with this but he thinks about it. Most of the pros don't give a hoot, they don't even think about it. They will never bite the hands that feeds them, end of story. They will sing the praises of chocolate milk, but you won't actually be able to find any chocolate milk in their fridge. ***Disclaimer this is not an accusation just an made up example***


I am interested to see where this goes. This is a defining moment of triathlon. I can't help but think even Dan's comments earlier on the Aero Bike TT shootout thread were somewhat directed at what he knew was coming down the pipeline.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [chicanery] [ In reply to ]
 
chicanery wrote:
Did Chris go to work for them, taking along considerable insider knowledge or trade secrets?


I don't know Chris except for some positive interactions with him around products he has represented, but in general, it is in exceptionally poor taste for a consumer goods company to sue a sales representative for this kind of thing. It's not like this guy is the COO. He didn't even go straight to Ventum -- he was with Roka for a period of time first. Putting this person through the ringer of discovery and legal costs and all that...for what? Because Chris (ostensibly) jumped around the industry a bit trying find the best company to work for and the best product to rep. Irrespective of the fact that non competes are more often than not totally unenforceable...Just leave the poor guy alone, for crying out loud.

Jordan's case is a lot different. If he is guilty of clear breach of contract -- which he very well may be, if he jumped ship and entered into an agreement with Diamondback before the previous agreement with Dimond was severed appropriately -- I don't think his technicality of claiming the bike wasn't safe to ride is going to be enough to save him from repercussions related to his failure to perform his contractual duties, especially since he is on record time and time again telling everyone how great and safe and perfect the product is. We all knew that such talk was lip service from a sponsored athlete, but it doesn't help his case now. He's pulled a complete 180 on all this stuff -- which Jordan are we supposed to believe, and which Jordan will the court believe?

Anyways, this is all fascinating from a human interest perspective. In my opinion, there is no product in triathlon that has warranted more fanfare (and money) with less substance than the Dimond bicycle. I have long thought that was because of this "coolness" factor associated with guys like Trenton Joel and Jesse and Jordan and Smashface riding it, despite longstanding shortcomings in practicality, aerodynamics, structural integrity, etc.. This thread officially razes that social cachet to the ground, while casting serious aspersion on the company from someone who knows it well.

I don't think Dimond survives this as a brand and as a product, but I don't know that Jordan wins here either -- at least not in financial terms, as the defendant in a civil suit that will be very costly if litigated, without some serious help from the community.
Last edited by: kileyay: Apr 26, 17 20:41
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
I am somewhat disappointed though I shouldn't be. Jordan is a maven and many of us follow what he says with interest and utmost respect. I think that this will end up looking poorly on both sides (and I had ordered a Dimond a few months back). Dimond, if they are putting out a subpar product, will never recover nor should they. Jordan, like he cares, will never hold my respect cuz he sold himself out. He marketed a product that he did not feel was safe. This tells me where his priorities are. It's in himself. We all have to choose where we draw the line. He chose to be a professional triathlete rather than an engineer. He chose money over his conscience. don't make it into a story about taking care of your kids. its about choice. For me I chose to take care of my family and established a career. I don't use it as an excuse for anything I do. I am just so terribly disappointed in all of this
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
 
kmill23 wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
kmill23 wrote:
This is why I never trust anything a sponsored athlete has to say about the equipment he or she is using.

Good luck in the fight. But like others have said, this is a no-win for everyone but the lawyers.


Out of curiosity, so who do u trust? Do u trust the salesman at the store, do u trust the magazine writer, do u trust your coach, your fellow peers. If it is your peers, do some peers matter more than others?


Legitimate and logical question.

I tend to trust folks who have the same access to equipment as I do and use the equipment in similar fashion, and, in general, have financial means similar to mine. Those guys will be honest with me about the reliability of their equipment. They don't have access to brand new frames/wheels/etc. for races or when a slight issue arises. They can't hide if they had to send their bike back for warranty work.

I probably am not explaining my reasoning very well. Does that make sense? If not, I'll try to reword it after a bit of sleep. I am in a state of fatigue and oxygen debt after just finishing a nasty trainer session. :-)

Yeah that definitely helps. No biggie, I should probably go to bed too. I am interested in this subject a lot in general. Like today a fellow pro friend asked me for personal recommendation on tires. He doesn't read Slowtwitch. He wanted a tubie recommendation and I told him Vittoria Corsa Speed. Then he gave me some more parameters about how many turns and 180s in this course and was nervous about handling so I said ok Spesh Turbo Cotton 26. Then he wanted a clincher recommendation but is excessively worried about flats and I told him Conti Attack / Force which is strangely the same recommendation I have had publicly since June 6, 2012. And as I think about this, here I am recommending 3 different brands. I am not sponsored by any of them and I don't want to be sponsored by any of them. I had two people ripping me apart in the past day and I am just like, I am trying my best to remain agnostic but it doesn't seem to matter. They just remain skeptical.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Can't wait to read Thomas Gerlach's take on this. Has he posted yet?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Damn, and Dimond was on the top of my list. Couple of quick comments.... 1> Whoever said Rapp is a journeyman pro needs to look up his accomplishments... seriously bro, come on! 2> Dimond basically just went out of business. 3> Don't want to sound harsh, but if Rapp really did know the frames were defective and he was still pimping them out, while behind the scenes scared for his own life and sending frames back to Dimond.... man you just opened up yourself to lawsuits too if anyone was hurt, or possibly even just for the loss of value of the bike. As a consumer, I am happy as hell to hear about this. If I were your attorney, I'd fire you as a client.

USAT LIIE Certified Coach
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [dhr] [ In reply to ]
 
dhr wrote:
Can't wait to read Thomas Gerlach's take on this. Has he posted yet?

About a dozen times, including right above you. :)

Try CTRL + F
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
 
Dilbert wrote:
davews09 wrote:
Per Stan's permission, mind posting the doc so we can all review?
Not sure that's a good idea. Believe it or not, copyright law applies to... errm... the law:

https://arstechnica.co.uk/...o-copyright-the-law/

Further, this little gem brought to the rest of us by the state of Georgia:

https://arstechnica.com/...a-legal-code-online/

Asinine yes but that's the law.

Not applicable here. That is protection of a representation of a statute. A court filing is public record. Dan should publish it, its news
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
 
pretty sure that was a joke...

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
trail wrote:
Slowman wrote:
as to andy coggan's point, dimond has already told its side, via its complaint (i would have struck this thread from that site were there no filed complaint).


I can't seem to find a public record of the complaint. And it's not in this thread or on the GoFundMe page, as far as I can tell. Could you direct us to it?

i had the complaint sent to me, just to make sure it existed (i felt that this was a condition of letting this thread stand).

i don't feel comfortable posting it because i'm not a party to the dispute. i'll post it if one side or the other asks me to (because each side is in possession of it). assuming it's a public record, if any of you want to post it i won't stop you. it's ruster v rapp, the iowa district court polk county. case number is LACL137402.

It's a public record, and it's newsworthy. You should post it on the main site
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
 
Dilbert wrote:
dhr wrote:
Can't wait to read Thomas Gerlach's take on this. Has he posted yet?

About a dozen times, including right above you. :)

Try CTRL + F

Yeah, thanks. I forgot people use pink font around here.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
TheTort wrote:
Damn, and Dimond was on the top of my list. Couple of quick comments.... 1> Whoever said Rapp is a journeyman pro needs to look up his accomplishments... seriously bro, come on! 2> Dimond basically just went out of business. 3> Don't want to sound harsh, but if Rapp really did know the frames were defective and he was still pimping them out, while behind the scenes scared for his own life and sending frames back to Dimond.... man you just opened up yourself to lawsuits too if anyone was hurt, or possibly even just for the loss of value of the bike. As a consumer, I am happy as hell to hear about this. If I were your attorney, I'd fire you as a client.

See my post above. I asked Jordan what the fail safe mode is if the beam "sinks". Does it bottom out like a sinking seat post on a conventional bike or does the beam end up on the rear tire. I don't know the answer to this, but it is is just "sinking beam" vs "collapsing beam" I can't see how it would make the product unsafe to ride.....so your seat height just sent down mid ride. This has happened to countless bikes. It would be nice to get clarity on this either from Jordan or other Dimond owners. If it is "just" sinking saddle height syndrome, that Dimond was fixing I could see why Jordan would continue to market the product knowing there was a path to a fix and that no one would get injured in the interim. If the failure can be catastrophic it seems weird that he would have still promoted the product but then come on here months later and label it is unsafe. Having had extensive interaction with players on both sides here, I kind of wish all of this was resolved offline from a forum and the public mud slinging, with the careers/businesses and reputations of people on both sides being hung out to dry
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
I agree.... a sinking saddle is not a "danger" to most. But on a $10k bike, a sinking saddle should have never made it out of production. And someone trying to sell a used $10k bike with a now-known sinking saddle issue probably just lost most of the value of their bike. Loss of value due to a hidden manufacturing defect is deceptive advertising... see VW.

USAT LIIE Certified Coach
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [dhr] [ In reply to ]
 
dhr wrote:
Dilbert wrote:
dhr wrote:
Can't wait to read Thomas Gerlach's take on this. Has he posted yet?


About a dozen times, including right above you. :)

Try CTRL + F


Yeah, thanks. I forgot people use pink font around here.
D'oh!
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
 
Herbert wrote:
If you have such an ongoing bad image of Dan and ST, why are you even here?

Andrew Coggan wrote:
cknoxpRTR wrote:
I am surprised Dan is allowing this thread to continue regarding claims/accusations of unsafe frames in a public forum.

I'm not surprised in the least.

Schadenfreude.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
Agreed on offline resolution. I don't think Rapp would have posted on here if he felt he had a better way out.

That said, the $150k is now a real amount of damage being done to the brand, if not more. I believe this is the end of Dimond. It may have been the end anyway, but...whatever.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
TheTort wrote:
I agree.... a sinking saddle is not a "danger" to most. But on a $10k bike, a sinking saddle should have never made it out of production. And someone trying to sell a used $10k bike with a now-known sinking saddle issue probably just lost most of the value of their bike. Loss of value due to a hidden manufacturing defect is deceptive advertising... see VW.

sinking saddle might scare me more in the aero position on a Tribike...less on a roadie on the hoods or in the drops
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
 
He's a classic lurker waiting to shit on a thread that mentions TSS incorrectly lol
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ In reply to ]
 
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.

just counter sue....

don't be surprised that TJ is suing. people are all smiles and laughs until you affect their bottom line. tj knew what jordan was worth to the brand. losing him as an ambassador would be a pretty big hit to the company. think about how many dimonds were sold just via jordans work/commenting on ST. i have no idea, but a comfortable guess would be 20-30. that's a pretty good amount of bikes (especially at the high end pricing). now all of a sudden, your number 1 guy is riding another brand?

what was jordan going to say, i got more money from diamondback? i wanted a something different? nothing is going to sound good.

but seriously, i'm surprised at all of this. talk about stupid. TJ's company is all but done. this is going to spread like wildfire. jordan, on the other hand will likely just lose his reputation. next time he says X product is good, i'm going to make sure i hear 50 of my friends say the product is good as well.

john
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Dimonds look like a re-hash of the experimental time trial bikes from about 20 years ago. Would never considered buying one of those, but especially not now. Good luck with your battle.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
WOW...sorry to hear that, but standing up for what is right can sometimes be a lonely task.

While a very crude comparison, I had two vehicles repurchased by MBUSA for being defective lemons and would not jeopardize my families safety in a vehicle which we did not feel safe in. The second repurchase required persistence, before MBUSA finally agreed to repurchase the vehicle. In the end, they did the right thing.

Granted there are always two sides to a story, money and friends never mix well in business and it appears Dimond may have emotions and ego at play. If you were willing to return their frames & equipment they should have accepted and walked away (i.e. do the right thing). Now knowing this I would not support them as a company.
Last edited by: sharkbaitguy: Apr 26, 17 21:37
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
kileyay wrote:
I don't think Dimond survives this

I agree. To go after two individuals and another company like this makes me think they are hurting financially and are looking for some cash to make ends meet. Ultimately their decision to sue may be the final dagger in their company. I can't imagine too many people who would want to but a Dimond given (1) the possible structural issues of their product (2) the potential that the company could go under soon (meaning no support/warranty), and (3) the lawsuits kind of look like a dick move (granted we don't know the whole story)

Matt
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.

this and the like is why we should be cautious about trusting anyone with a vested interest in advice they give and why Jordan should on the face of it not be sued over this. if Jordan was still promoting Dimond after raising issues to the company then he is clearly meeting his obligation to rep their product, throwing away his own reputation in order to do so. seems like Jordan should be suing Dimond for the fact that this saga has surely damaged his future earnings.

on the face of it the only way Jordan went against his contract was to start riding a competitor's bike, however surely he can't be forced by any contract to ride an unsafe bike, nor to stop his professional activities. actually signing a contract with that competitor manufacturer while still under contract with Dimond is a different story, however it sounds like he was unable to get any response from Dimond so took them as having accepted his request for a release.

all very messy, will be interesting to see how this plays out - i hope we are able to see that rather than have it all kept secret
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
 
Pun_Times wrote:
Ultimately their decision to sue may be the Superfork in their company.


DHR apparently wasn't happy about me and talking about myself and asked me to try my hand at comedy so I fixed it for you.



Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
Last edited by: Thomas Gerlach: Apr 26, 17 21:48
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [dhr] [ In reply to ]
 
dhr wrote:
More like Cubc Zrconia, amirite???

FTW!!!

Salton Sea Triathlon Club
“I swim to get to the bike. I run because nobody gives a shit about aquabike.”
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
 
Andrew Coggan wrote:
So when will ST readers get to hear Dimond's side of the story?

Trying to answer those that I think I can to start.

Some general answers to start with:

1) I have a lawyer already. Howard Jacobs - the "athlete's lawyer" who most folks know from anti-doping cases. He's local to me (lives about 10min away) and is himself a triathlete. Plus he specializes in working with athletes. So he seemed a good choice. We are working with a colleague of his in Iowa.

2) As far as the money, I am paying. I will have to pay the costs. The GoFundMe may cover all of it. Or it may cover some of it. If there's extra, I'll donate it. If there isn't, I'm on the hook for whatever is left.

3) I cleared this post with my lawyer and Dan before posting it.

4) I have a copy of the suit from Dimond. I will ask my lawyer if I can post it. I personally have no issue with making it public, but I obviously need to ask my counsel. Dan certainly has my permission to post it, but again, I will need ask Howard about this. But there I certainly have zero objections to it being posted. Or to having Dimond/TJ tell their side of the story.

5) As to the why, it's not more or less complicated than what I wrote. It's possible that I could have made a more generous offer to settle that would have been accepted. That would likely be cheaper than the net cost in of fighting. However, I do not believe that is the right thing. Now, perhaps this is too little, too late. And certainly I don't expect that I make it out of this without my own reputation being seriously harmed. I did not wish to harm a company that I believed was trying hard to make good bikes. Once it became clear that they were more interested in a vindictive lawsuit than in listening to my constructive criticism about how to fix the flaws in the design, I no longer believed that they were a company worth defending. I expect some people may disagree with that decision. I can accept that.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [pk1] [ In reply to ]
 
Rapp star modifies parts to fit his riding style. He maybe an engineer but changing parts that were engineered to work one way to something else is always a gamble. He modified parts on his new Diamondback. What changes he made to the Dimond I do not know. We are not hearing the whole story. I have not experienced anything on my Dimond that he is writing about.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
 
The GMAN wrote:
I've had no issues with my Dimond (yet and hopefully never will) but this thread has my full attention. I do most of my riding on my other tri bike on the trainer and only bust out the Dimond for races and very few training rides. So I don't put the miles and wear and tear on it that Jordan does so my level of stress testing the bike is nowhere near his. Now I must think about having a defective product, which isn't cool since this piece of carbon isl all that is holding me up from eating pavement at 20-30 mph. I now also have a bike whose resale value probably just plummeted when Jordan hit submit.

I'm also a wee bit annoyed in Jordan pimping a product that he knew had issues. That's not sitting well with me either. Jordan's endorsement of the product played a very, very minor role in my decision to buy but it nevertheless played a role. Had this post came out when I was shopping for a new bike I can guarantee you that I would have bought something else. Guaranteed. Not that Jordan's allegations are fact at this point but it's more than enough to concern me.

I've had the bike for over a year and had no buyer's remorse until now.

I can certainly see the frustration that he promoted something that wasn't right. I think the flip side of that is that he was under contract, an emerging pro, and trying to do right by the hand that feeds him. That's a tough line to toe. Especially when you want to believe that these are your friends and they are going to take input and make their products right.

Salton Sea Triathlon Club
“I swim to get to the bike. I run because nobody gives a shit about aquabike.”
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Tricoastal] [ In reply to ]
 
Tricoastal wrote:
So you have the money to pay for an attorney as indicated by your not wanting to dip into savings comment but instead you'd rather have other random people pay your legal fees just to save you money? I wish you luck in your legal fight against TJ and Dimond but the GoFundMe part is kinda strange.

Ultimately, I decided that I wanted to fight this as opposed to attempting to settle, in spite of the fact that it was likely to result in significantly more costs. I wanted to fight this because I did not want this to be kept quiet. And so the GoFundMe was a way to work to mitigate the cost of fighting this. For those who cannot reconcile that with the fact that I represented this brand publicly, I respect your decision.

In all cases, I have always tried to make the "right" decision. If other people's sense of morality differs from mine, I can absolutely respect that as well.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
devashish_paul wrote:
I kind of wish all of this was resolved offline from a forum and the public mud slinging, with the careers/businesses and reputations of people on both sides being hung out to dry

Sounds like Jordan tried to resolve this quietly and without mudslinging. He told the company he no longer had confidence in their product, and asked to be released from his contract. He thought the company was on board with an amicable separation, and kept his product quality concerns to himself. Even when he was announced as a new Diamondback sponsored rider, he was very careful not to disparage Dimond. Only when hit with a $150,000 law suit (an amount that is presumably far in excess of whatever compensation in dollars and equipment he every received from Dimond) did Jordan go public.

Between this and the other thread where they pissed a customer off over a misquoted fork price, it seems clear that Dimond has no real understanding of the potential costs of negative PR. I guess they've had so much sunshine blown up their behind lately, they think everyone's gonna take their side on every issue.

No way in hell the damage done to the company's value by bringing this issue into the public record with a lawsuit isn't going to cost them more than whatever damages they might be able to secure.....and that's before they pay any lawyers. This is a poorly conceived lawsuit that seems as much an act of spite as anything.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.

You will not hear a peep of criticism from me on this. I have had to think about that every single day for quite some time. And I will have to continue to think about this for quite some time.

I did not write that believing it was a lie. I wrote that wanting myself to have it be true. I don't offer that as a defense of any sort. Simply a statement. I do not expect it to change your feelings. It was the posts like yours that I knew would come. And which I knew would hit me the hardest.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [afurlong] [ In reply to ]
 
afurlong wrote:
As I stated, they are establishing that all of these events have happened in breach of contract and are damaging to their business.

I get that. I just can't see what the end game is. What does TJ hope to accomplish? Does he really think he's going to be awarded damages?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [spot] [ In reply to ]
 
spot wrote:
I'm wondering if you can explain this in your post:

"The frame I received for Kona 2015 was demonstrably worse. Unfortunately, due to the compressed timeline that results from the far too common "we want you on a new frame for Kona!" attitude - something that I have agreed to more times than I should have, the true depth of these defects did not become apparent for quite some time. As an engineer, I'm sad to say that it took me until July of 2016 to realize just how damaged this frame was. It had the same issues with the saddle rail clamp, which should have been a red flag. And the new seat-post binder wasn't any better - and was in fact worse - than the old one."

Considering that you posted this in Oct '16:

"The seatpost clamp has been entirely redesigned. The original design was a "pinch" design that was super sensitive to any variance in tolerances on the frame or seatpost. They've since replaced that with a back-to-front plate design that is much better and with which I have had no issues. I can post pics showing the difference if it is not clear."

I can hopefully explain this without writing another novel. The first time I received the updated seatpost clamp, it was as a retrofit. Based on the design, it seemed clear to me that the threaded part (the larger piece) needed to be bonded onto the beam. The interior of the clamp is tapered. If it is not bonded on, it will slip upwards over time, which causes it to loosen. This is how I *assumed* it worked. And because it came as a retrofit, I just did that bonding myself.

However, once it became clear that Dimond doesn't actually bond it in place, the flaw - that you have a piece which is trying to grab onto a frame member that tapers - became obvious.

So when I looked at the part and made the decision about how I thought it ought to work, it worked fine. But that's not actually how it was designed. But I didn't realize that how I thought it worked and how it was designed were not the same until later on.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
ajthomas wrote:
davews09 wrote:
Is there a way to access this complaint from the public domain? I have 0 legal expertise.

Of course there is.

Des Moines County Clerk. You have to pay $25 to read the original petition. This is how I know that Dimond is also suing Chris (and Ventum).

So taking the conspiracy angle, and a honest question then, is there any chance there is some foul play going on with the other Dimond thread. I mean if Dimond knew they had a potential poop storm on their hands, wouldn't it be prudent of them to deal with the customer as best as they cold. Here we have Ventum being served a lawsuit, then magically stepping up to the plate to take care of a customer. Scratching my head... I mean seriously unless Dimond just served the lawsuit to Ventum as retaliatory move, but it sounds like based on Rapp it was served some time ago.

I was threatened with a lawsuit in January. But I was actually served with the suit on Apr 12.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [davews09] [ In reply to ]
 
davews09 wrote:
Per Stan's permission, mind posting the doc so we can all review?

I will ask my lawyer for permission.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm glad that I saved the money I was going to spend on the "Dipsy Doodlers" in the low-speed wind tunnel for you!

Going to bed now a little more heavy hearted than before reading this, but will contribute in the AM. My heartfelt condolences for your being in this unfortunate situation.

DFL > DNF > DNS
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [npage148] [ In reply to ]
 
npage148 wrote:
Did any frames actually fail or were you just not happy with the loose tolerances?

I had no frames suffer catastrophic failures or otherwise become unRIDEable. I would argue that - in terms of being RACEable - the frame shown in the video absolutely "failed."

So I would say it depends on the definition of "fail."

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
 
GreenPlease wrote:


I get that. I just can't see what the end game is. What does TJ hope to accomplish? Does he really think he's going to be awarded damages?


I can't see what the end game is, either. This thread alone has probably cost them more in brand equity and future sales than the most optimistic estimate of damages they might collect...and that's before they pay any attorney's fees.

What we appear to have here is a text book example of "cutting off your nose to spite your face."

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Apr 26, 17 22:29
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
I wasn't wrong.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Having met you multiple times, I believe you are sincere in saying that. It is still hard to reconcile and if you truly understand that this is hard for some people, well that is a good thing. I don't feel quite as harsh as SBR because, well, i don't own a dimond. I am glad to hear this issue though bc it was high on my list, along with the Andean and P5x. I don't truly believe anyone can come after a spokesperson for any legal repercussions, because if you were to talk bad about the company while under contract that would definitely be a breach. But I do think that is where SBR is coming from in his comment. You are not just another pro triathlete.... you're a multiple Ironman champion, and your opinions have weight. It's good that your attorney approved that post, but I stick to my previous comment above..... I don't think this should have ever been posted, certainly not by you. I am praying for a good result for you because I do think you are a good ambassador for the sport and an actual good person. For those of you that don't think so, just google Jordan Rapp Ironman Foundation.

USAT LIIE Certified Coach
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
Well put.

I think most Dimond owners feel the way that Jordan said he felt when he was their cheerleader, and we truly do feel that way. ie sure some things have gone wrong on occasion, but it's always been dealt with swiftly. I've never seen anything that I would regard as unsafe. I've put my Dimond through worse conditions than anyone and I've never once felt unsafe.

I have (or maybe it's HAD) a lot of respect for Rapp, but blaming your poor Kona performance on your bike? Comeawwwwwn.

To me, this thread seems nothing more than an attempt to retrospectively​ paint a picture of an unsafe bike with the goal of justifying the breach of contract.

There is no way I would ride a bike that I didn't trust 100%, and I have no ulterior motive for standing behind Dimond... I have no contract, agreement etc with them at all.

Day 2 of ultraman Hawaii starts with a 45 minute descent of the volcano. It's raining and the road surface is not great. We're bombing down that thing at 50+ mph... No way I'm doing that if in doubt about my ride.

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
+1

You are on your own on this.

Your purported integrity does not match the facts you are presenting.

And yes, it sort of pains me to point this out:

Don't trust anybody who has some vested interest in a product or technology...regardless of their credentials.



SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.
Last edited by: windschatten: Apr 26, 17 23:19
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
TheTort wrote:
Whoever said Rapp is a journeyman pro needs to look up his accomplishments... seriously bro, come on!

That was me. I didn't mean it was a pejorative. But I stand by it. Journeyman just means that you're professional and competent, with a solid body of work. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [trail] [ In reply to ]
 
Just makes him sound like he's a relief pitcher that has played for 18 different teams in a 14 year career. :-) Dude is a multiple ironman champion and quite honestly one of the most humble ones I've ever met.

USAT LIIE Certified Coach
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
TheTort wrote:
Having met you multiple times, I believe you are sincere in saying that. It is still hard to reconcile and if you truly understand that this is hard for some people, well that is a good thing. I don't feel quite as harsh as SBR because, well, i don't own a dimond. I am glad to hear this issue though bc it was high on my list, along with the Andean and P5x. I don't truly believe anyone can come after a spokesperson for any legal repercussions, because if you were to talk bad about the company while under contract that would definitely be a breach. But I do think that is where SBR is coming from in his comment. You are not just another pro triathlete.... you're a multiple Ironman champion, and your opinions have weight. It's good that your attorney approved that post, but I stick to my previous comment above..... I don't think this should have ever been posted, certainly not by you. I am praying for a good result for you because I do think you are a good ambassador for the sport and an actual good person. For those of you that don't think so, just google Jordan Rapp Ironman Foundation.


This is really good advice. It's unfortunate, if not tragic, that the OP is not heeding it. I suppose though, it's only money, and only some of which will be his.

Good advice is often ignored. Sometimes, all you can do is help pick up the pieces afterward.
Last edited by: jw13: Apr 26, 17 22:56
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [robgray] [ In reply to ]
 
robgray wrote:
Well put.

I think most Dimond owners feel the way that Jordan said he felt when he was their cheerleader, and we truly do feel that way. ie sure some things have gone wrong on occasion, but it's always been dealt with swiftly. I've never seen anything that I would regard as unsafe. I've put my Dimond through worse conditions than anyone and I've never once felt unsafe.

I have (or maybe it's HAD) a lot of respect for Rapp, but blaming your poor Kona performance on your bike? Comeawwwwwn.

To me, this thread seems nothing more than an attempt to retrospectively​ paint a picture of an unsafe bike with the goal of justifying the breach of contract.

There is no way I would ride a bike that I didn't trust 100%, and I have no ulterior motive for standing behind Dimond... I have no contract, agreement etc with them at all.

Day 2 of ultraman Hawaii starts with a 45 minute descent of the volcano. It's raining and the road surface is not great. We're bombing down that thing at 50+ mph... No way I'm doing that if in doubt about my ride.

As I stated, the issue is one of tolerance and quality control. I do believe that design is fundamentally flawed. However, how quickly those flaws reveal themselves can certainly vary based on any number of factors.

But that is fundamentally not how defects are identified. Look at the Galaxy Note. It was recalled because of a very real problem that led to certain phones - although a relatively small percentage - catching on fire.

Just browse any of the threads on recalls in this forum for products within the bike industry.

There was a revision of the Zipp 88 hub that was recalled because the compression ring could fail: http://www.cpsc.gov/...-Bicycle-Wheel-Hubs/

I put THOUSANDS of miles on wheels built on this hubset without issue. That does not change the fact that the design was defective.

Black swan theory. A thousand white swans do not prove that all swans are white. A single black swan proves they are not. And based on extensive conversations I have had and messages I have received, my frames are not unique with regards to these defects.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [trail] [ In reply to ]
 
He definitely is a journeyman...like all of us,,,,except he chose to proclaim HIS view of things to be more important than the one of others.

.

trail wrote:
TheTort wrote:
Whoever said Rapp is a journeyman pro needs to look up his accomplishments... seriously bro, come on!


That was me. I didn't mean it was a pejorative. But I stand by it. Journeyman just means that you're professional and competent, with a solid body of work. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [trail] [ In reply to ]
 
trail wrote:
TheTort wrote:
Whoever said Rapp is a journeyman pro needs to look up his accomplishments... seriously bro, come on!

That was me. I didn't mean it was a pejorative. But I stand by it. Journeyman just means that you're professional and competent, with a solid body of work. Nothing wrong with that.

FWIW, I did not take it as an insult. In fact, I took it as a complement.

"A 'journeyman' is a skilled worker who has successfully completed an official apprenticeship qualification in a building trade or craft. They are considered competent and authorized to work in that field as a fully qualified employee."

And on, finally, what I hope is a positive note, I'm going to bed.

Thank you to everyone who has offered support. And I respect all of the criticisms that have been leveled.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
TheTort wrote:
Damn, and Dimond was on the top of my list. Couple of quick comments.... 1> Whoever said Rapp is a journeyman pro needs to look up his accomplishments... seriously bro, come on! 2> Dimond basically just went out of business. 3> Don't want to sound harsh, but if Rapp really did know the frames were defective and he was still pimping them out, while behind the scenes scared for his own life and sending frames back to Dimond.... man you just opened up yourself to lawsuits too if anyone was hurt, or possibly even just for the loss of value of the bike. As a consumer, I am happy as hell to hear about this. If I were your attorney, I'd fire you as a client.

And this is exactly why a thread like this is a monumentally stupid idea. All that is happening now is that ST is compiling a great big pile of evidence for Dimond to show that Jordan's breach of contract is costing it future revenue. Statements like "I'm not going to buy one now" are the best form of evidence. I'm a lawyer in the UK (so don't fully understand US law) but this kind of forum would be an absolute goldmine of evidence if I were acting for Dimond.

And I agree with a lot of the comments here - whilst I accept a sponsored athlete is paid to promote a product, so you have to take their view on that product with an element of suspicion. What is different here, though, is that Jordan has very clearly advised people that, for example, the seat clamp issue has been fixed. Either Jordan was lying then, or he is lying now. Either way, that's a hell of a lot worse than just recommending a brand in general terms.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Rappstar wrote:
I am not sure how I thought that I was going to win Kona...

There's your way out. If you ever considered yourself as a potential winner then clearly you weren't of sound mind and could not legally be held responsible for agreeing to the contract. Get your lawyer on to this angle ASAP.

But just so that we can get this straight:

a) You had (have?) a contract with Dimond to ride their bikes, to the value of around $9000 over two years.
b) While riding their bikes you were happy to publicly and privately promote them to all and sundry without caveat.
c) Almost immediately on starting this contract you noticed numerous issues however you were not deeply concerned as you believed improvements were being made.
d) You made public statements to the effect that you were happy with their bikes and that problems experienced by others were mere "teething problems" and managed to convince yourself of this in spite of your "extensive" knowledge of engineering, the bike in question and cycling in general.
e) You sought release from your contract on the grounds that you believe it was "a matter of life and death" for you to continue to ride them.
f) On thinking that you were being released you were happy to give away what you thought was too dangerous for you to ride so as to "leave a positive impression of the brand."
g) You are being sued for breach of contract.
h) You could probably settle for no more than your silence but now feel the need to make a "moral stand" to protect the public.
i) Rather than wait for the case win (or more likely settlement) where you could possibly be awarded costs or at very least the truth would come out to defend your reputation and thus garner more support you decide to pre-emptively fundraise to fight a company that, let's face it, is almost certainly as hard up for cash as you are and can't afford to just litigate you out of existence anyway.

So it seems that there are a couple of conclusions we can potentially draw from this: Either the bikes aren't as bad as portrayed but you no longer wish to ride them for whatever reason and (mistakenly) thought this was a way out of your contract; or the bikes have always been terribly dangerous (and they have now improved even if only marginally) but the cost of Jordan Rapp's moral compass is approximately $5k per annum.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Wow this is ugly, for Dimond and you both. I can't see anything good coming out of this thread.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [nchristi] [ In reply to ]
 
nchristi wrote:
Wow this is ugly, for Dimond and you both. I can't see anything good coming out of this thread.

Agree: dumb on so many levels.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [nchristi] [ In reply to ]
 
nchristi wrote:
Wow this is ugly, for Dimond and you both. I can't see anything good coming out of this thread.

I can see some good entertainment coming from this thread.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Respect for that.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [IMStillTrying] [ In reply to ]
 
IMStillTrying wrote:
I am somewhat disappointed though I shouldn't be. Jordan is a maven and many of us follow what he says with interest and utmost respect. I think that this will end up looking poorly on both sides (and I had ordered a Dimond a few months back). Dimond, if they are putting out a subpar product, will never recover nor should they. Jordan, like he cares, will never hold my respect cuz he sold himself out. He marketed a product that he did not feel was safe. This tells me where his priorities are. It's in himself. We all have to choose where we draw the line. He chose to be a professional triathlete rather than an engineer. He chose money over his conscience. don't make it into a story about taking care of your kids. its about choice. For me I chose to take care of my family and established a career. I don't use it as an excuse for anything I do. I am just so terribly disappointed in all of this
I'm usually a pretty black and white person but this I am still trying to wrap my head around.
Your post seems rather harsh and judgmental. You are disappointed in someone who I assume you don't really know and are ready to make your pronouncement on them based on one act. I hope people in your life give you a bit more grace.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [stikman] [ In reply to ]
 
strong words, but, fair points.

A pro likely has to delude themselves into the belief they can win every race. But Rapp win Kona? That's a fantasy land ride I need to get on. Due affection to all pros (seriously).

re: Product endorsements. my observation is that in general Triathletes are less influenced by them than other sports, etc. and that translates to lower fees paid to them. In fact, it might (or is) be better to do stuff for AG'ers rather than spend on pros. Especially if you really believe you've got a quality product.

I take any endorsement, including seeing a pro ride a brand of bike...

With a big grain of salt (not base salt, just regular)

Sorry, this is an all around lose-lose deal, and, for Diamond to not see that "deer in the headlights" is mind boggling, somebody missed a few days in PR101 - - hello?

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
edit: nm
Sorry Jordan, but the time to speak to Dimond's being Dangerous was BEFORE it was a legal battle if you wanted help.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Last edited by: Morelock: Apr 27, 17 2:49
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
 
Herbert wrote:
If you have such an ongoing bad image of Dan and ST, why are you even here?

For threads like this one, of course.

EDIT: On a more serious note, I will say that this is obviously a fast-moving story, and Dan has stated that he has reached out to Dimond for comments. Until there is an in-depth, balanced article on the front page, though, Dan/ST is failing to fulfill his/its journalistic role. That's why I originally asked "when are we going to hear Dimond's side of the story?" (Note: I find it amusing that Jordan replied to my question by providing more from his side of things. Yeah, he had to dive back into the thread somewhere, but what an odd place to do it.)
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Apr 27, 17 3:32
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
 
This: This thread may open you up to additional claims by Diamond. I would pull this until you seek the advice of an attorney

and this: start getting contact info from other Dimond owners who have had similar issues

29 years and counting
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
 
Response directed towards no one in particular..............

1. I think the "little guy/defendant" wins a jury decision. Offering to return all compensation sounds reasonable, to me.

2. Gofundme is a genius way manufacturers can (anonymously) contribute to sink a competitor. Well-played.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [nchristi] [ In reply to ]
 
nchristi wrote:
Wow this is ugly, for Dimond and you both. I can't see anything good coming out of this thread.

Agree, and have pretty much voiced my feelings...
While I'm pissed, I wouldn't go so far as to say I wish bad things for him.
But I can't lie that I find it very ironic (and mildly amusing) that Rapp recently dropped out of IMTX partly because, by his own admission, he couldn't get the seat post on his new Andean super bike to stay still...............this is slowtwitch, how am I the first one to mention this?! :)
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
 

At Ironman Texas this last weekend, prior to the race, I was talking with a woman about her new Dimond. On the course Saturday we crossed paths and chatted for a moment. She said that during the race, the rear brake fell off and that she was riding with a front brake only.

Also, on the Northbound leg I saw someone with the Dimond on the side of the expressway. His rear derailleur had come completely off.

No idea of these athletes names or number for you though.

.

Once, I was fast. But I got over it.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
 
GreenPlease wrote:
ajthomas wrote:
In case you don't know, Chris Blick is also being sued.

That's f***ing BS. Chris is such a nice guy and he drove all over the country repping Dimond. He once drove 150 miles out of his way so I could demo a Dimond early on. What else could you possibly ask for from a product rep?

QFT

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [dhr] [ In reply to ]
 
dhr wrote:
Can't wait to read Thomas Gerlach's take on this. Has he posted yet?

Hilarious. I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully he will be able to turn his response into a 300 word missive about how he recommended a tire or how he commutes by bike.
In Reply To:
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
 
I know of at least 4 bikes that have/had issues. Also, let's not forget about the super fork fitting issue that cam up a few months back. This alone was enough to know that they don't care about the quality of their product. Or maybe they just don't know any better, which makes it even more dangerous IMHO.
Bottom line, their R&D is full of tinkerers and not engineers qualified to develop bikes.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
 
Andrew Coggan wrote:
Herbert wrote:
If you have such an ongoing bad image of Dan and ST, why are you even here?


For threads like this one, of course.

EDIT: On a more serious note, I will say that this is obviously a fast-moving story, and Dan has stated that he has reached out to Dimond for comments. Until there is an in-depth, balanced article on the front page, though, Dan/ST is failing to fulfill his/its journalistic role. That's why I originally asked "when are we going to hear Dimond's side of the story?" (Note: I find it amusing that Jordan replied to my question by providing more from his side of things. Yeah, he had to dive back into the thread somewhere, but what an odd place to do it.)



While I'd welcome a front pace article (and I expect there to be one), I disagree with you statement.

Should this thread not be allowed to surface because Dimond has not yet whished to comment, despoter been given the opportunity?

Also, I'll add that everyone is ofcourse entitled their own opinion, and Im not surprised by the number of "jump the gun"-approaches. The way I see it the main concern for Dimond with this thread is the issue of wheter or not they make good/safe bikes. Every company should tolerate and expect that this is discussed ad infinitum on the Internett, and in this respect I dont view this thread any different from of if I were to start a thread on what I dislike on my 2009 Trek.

The twist that makes this kinda viral is the contractual relationship between Rapp and Dimond, and Rapp's "status" om ST. When Dimond chooses to sue Rapp - and making the dispute public - I see no reason why Rapp shouldnt be allowed to start a thread on it.

All the other issues; whom you sympathize with, is it smart on Rapp's, account, etc, is for anyone to decide, but are not reasons to pull the thread.
Last edited by: lovegoat: Apr 27, 17 4:56
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kiwi.] [ In reply to ]
 

 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
Quote:
But I can't lie that I find it very ironic (and mildly amusing) that Rapp recently dropped out of IMTX partly because, by his own admission, he couldn't get the seat post on his new Andean super bike to stay still...............this is slowtwitch, how am I the first one to mention this?! :)

I had that thought early this morning as I was reading through things but didn't post because I hadn't had my coffee yet so promptly forgot.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [hblake] [ In reply to ]
 
hblake wrote:


At Ironman Texas this last weekend, prior to the race, I was talking with a woman about her new Dimond. On the course Saturday we crossed paths and chatted for a moment. She said that during the race, the rear brake fell off and that she was riding with a front brake only.

Also, on the Northbound leg I saw someone with the Dimond on the side of the expressway. His rear derailleur had come completely off.

No idea of these athletes names or number for you though.

.

Not interested in defending either side, but components coming loose has nothing to do with a frame. Try a little harder....
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
SBRcoffee wrote:
hblake wrote:


At Ironman Texas this last weekend, prior to the race, I was talking with a woman about her new Dimond. On the course Saturday we crossed paths and chatted for a moment. She said that during the race, the rear brake fell off and that she was riding with a front brake only.

Also, on the Northbound leg I saw someone with the Dimond on the side of the expressway. His rear derailleur had come completely off.

No idea of these athletes names or number for you though.

.

Not interested in defending either side, but components coming loose has nothing to do with a frame. Try a little harder....

Maybe not a frame, but perhaps a company and its processes and systems.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
My experience has been stellar and I have had zero issues. Maybe I've not ridden as many miles as Jordan but I've packed/unpacked re-setup the bike with thousands of miles travelled and then ridden it hard on race day without issue or concern. I will continue to do so.

While I wont discount that issues exist or accidents happen people saying 'I had a friend, or I saw someone on the road...'' is just plain misleading. You simply have no idea what went wrong there.

________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [hblake] [ In reply to ]
 
You should edit your post because it is second hand and Dan made it clear earlier (sure you missed it no biggie) that he did not want that here.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
 
Morelock wrote:
edit: nm
Sorry Jordan, but the time to speak to Dimond's being Dangerous was BEFORE it was a legal battle if you wanted help.

I'm sure that would have gone over well..not.

Sounds like doing that would be some sort of breach of contract and triggered an equally intense legal battle. I can understand rapp's position of being handcuffed while at the same time believing that the company was working to reslove QC issued as any responsible company would. Hindsight is 20 20.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [robgray] [ In reply to ]
 
robgray wrote:
Well put.

I think most Dimond owners feel the way that Jordan said he felt when he was their cheerleader, and we truly do feel that way. ie sure some things have gone wrong on occasion, but it's always been dealt with swiftly. I've never seen anything that I would regard as unsafe. I've put my Dimond through worse conditions than anyone and I've never once felt unsafe.

I have (or maybe it's HAD) a lot of respect for Rapp, but blaming your poor Kona performance on your bike? Comeawwwwwn.

To me, this thread seems nothing more than an attempt to retrospectively​ paint a picture of an unsafe bike with the goal of justifying the breach of contract.

There is no way I would ride a bike that I didn't trust 100%, and I have no ulterior motive for standing behind Dimond... I have no contract, agreement etc with them at all.

Day 2 of ultraman Hawaii starts with a 45 minute descent of the volcano. It's raining and the road surface is not great. We're bombing down that thing at 50+ mph... No way I'm doing that if in doubt about my ride.

Hey Rob, no one has been able to answer one of my questions above. If the Dimond beam "sinks" do you just end up with a lower seat position in a "bottomed out" fail safe mode or do you have the chance of the rear beam hitting the rear wheel moving at 80 kph. Since I have ridden down Palomar with you at 80 kph, I am guessing its just a 'sinking' beam thing. If that is the case, I don't see how this makes this bike unsafe, you might just go slower in your training ride or race. I can see how that affects you as a pro triathlete.

For the record, I am still in the market for a small size Dimond. It might be beneficial for my disk/nerve issues as I get back into more riding. I would not be overly concerned if there is a 1/10000th chance my beam sinks, but that's just me. Are there any reported incidences of sinking beam?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.

Thank you........best post of the thread.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
 
Except that the claim would be seriously weakened as none of this noise would have happened if they had not sued in the first place. Their lawsuit has brought this onto them, without it, there would be no brand damage.



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
 
Sure. I'm not upset (at all, don't really care) that he didn't say "Dimond bikes suck" while they were paying his bills, hell I'm not even upset he basically lied point blank to people who asked his opinion on the bike at the time. But if it's a moral crusade he's taken on, which is what I got from "why he's not going to let this be settled" then that ship sailed when you told people it was a fine product. You are free to disagree, I am not trying to change anyone's mind. I hope it works out for all parties.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Does all this mean people will stop bashing the Chinese no name frames? Can't be worse than a Dimond, right?
</onlysortofpinksadly>


--Chris
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
devashish_paul wrote:

Hey Rob, no one has been able to answer one of my questions above. If the Dimond beam "sinks" do you just end up with a lower seat position in a "bottomed out" fail safe mode or do you have the chance of the rear beam hitting the rear wheel moving at 80 kph. Since I have ridden down Palomar with you at 80 kph, I am guessing its just a 'sinking' beam thing. If that is the case, I don't see how this makes this bike unsafe, you might just go slower in your training ride or race. I can see how that affects you as a pro triathlete.

For the record, I am still in the market for a small size Dimond. It might be beneficial for my disk/nerve issues as I get back into more riding. I would not be overly concerned if there is a 1/10000th chance my beam sinks, but that's just me. Are there any reported incidences of sinking beam?

Dev,
No the beam can't bottom out. The beam and frame connect via a simple male (frame)/female (beam) type connection. So there's maybe a three inch piece of the frame that the beam slides onto and the beam pretty much can't go below where it meets the frame.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [chriselam] [ In reply to ]
 
can you imagine a chinese knock off dimond? oh the huge-manatee!!!
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
 
Yes, fair points. Respect. Perhaps this is beating a dead horse, but wouldnt he be contractually obligated to promote the brand and be an ambassador of sorts? To say positive things publicly? Or at least he couldn't insinuate it was an unsafe bike with QC issues?

So he may not have been voluntarily "lying"...he was saying internally "shit if I don't endorse this product they're gunna sue/fire me, and they're working on the problems I've raised with them"? Just a thought. Even if someone asked him what he thought and he said something vague or noncommital, wouldn't that basically be the same as saying this bike is horrible? Dimond wouldn't like that.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
 
What is the difference between a Diamond and a Diamondback?

"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [bluestacks867] [ In reply to ]
 
bluestacks867 wrote:
What is the difference between a Dimond and a Diamondback?

A back?


--Chris
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [chriselam] [ In reply to ]
 
chriselam wrote:
bluestacks867 wrote:
What is the difference between a Dimond and a Diamondback?


A back?

A back is the correct answer.

Back would have been incorrect.

Well played.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
 
This thread has certainly been a good read. Here are some of my thoughts:
  • Jordan was a paid endorser of Dimond bikes and was contractually obligated to promote their brand. Even responding with a "It's OK.", or being noncommittal, when asked what he thought of the bike could be considered a breach of contract. I know we all seek advice on this forum, but we need to gather data and consider all aspects and make our own decisions.
  • It seems to me that Dimond is potentially exposing themselves to a lawsuit of their own. If they received multiple complaints and knew that the bike was "unsafe" and did nothing, or little, to fix the problem they could be in a bit of trouble.
  • I didn't think of the possibility that competitors could donate to the gofundme campaign in an attempt to damage, or eliminate, the Dimond brand.

I really hope that both sides can resolve this quickly.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
Jorgan wrote:
This: This thread may open you up to additional claims by Diamond. I would pull this until you seek the advice of an attorney

and this: start getting contact info from other Dimond owners who have had similar issues

This is a F-ing mess all around and I agree only the lawyers will win.

Seven pages of comments and everyone has an opinion, I've not had a single issue with my Dimond anyone else?

Jordan, shame on you for starting this public fight


Giddy up, there's no reason to look behind you, you're not heading that way.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
EDIT: I do currently have counsel, and my counsel has reviewed this statement. END EDIT

I am a lawyer. Because of my particular job, I can't give you legal advice, but here's the best personal advice I could possibly give you:

I don't know anything about your lawyer and didn't even see his name until after I posted this but based upon the above I would say...Get new legal counsel. Immediately. Seriously.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Apr 27, 17 7:31
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
 
The GMAN wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


Hey Rob, no one has been able to answer one of my questions above. If the Dimond beam "sinks" do you just end up with a lower seat position in a "bottomed out" fail safe mode or do you have the chance of the rear beam hitting the rear wheel moving at 80 kph. Since I have ridden down Palomar with you at 80 kph, I am guessing its just a 'sinking' beam thing. If that is the case, I don't see how this makes this bike unsafe, you might just go slower in your training ride or race. I can see how that affects you as a pro triathlete.

For the record, I am still in the market for a small size Dimond. It might be beneficial for my disk/nerve issues as I get back into more riding. I would not be overly concerned if there is a 1/10000th chance my beam sinks, but that's just me. Are there any reported incidences of sinking beam?


Dev,
No the beam can't bottom out. The beam and frame connect via a simple male (frame)/female (beam) type connection. So there's maybe a three inch piece of the frame that the beam slides onto and the beam pretty much can't go below where it meets the frame.

Right, this is what I thought.

so the "fail safe" feature of the design is that if the beam were to sink, you just end up sitting on your saddle in a lower point in space, but clearly above the rear wheel. The reason I ask this is because I have an ancient softride sitting in my basement and if the contraption that holds the beam at its "height" fails, I just end up sitting on a lower beam, not beam on rear wheel.

In a race or training ride, you just end up with a lower saddle height and either have to stand all the way home (I don't know how many people have done that due to a broken saddle rail, I know I have), or you end up squatting in a really low seat position. How is this a life and death safety issue. In my post above, I mentioned when I was an engineer in the aerospace world we had "safety critical" and "mission critical". Safety critical failure means the aircrew does not come home and the plane might crash. Mission critical, you abort the mission but no one is endangered. This seems to be in the mission critical failure group.

Is it a stretch to label Dimond as unsafe? We have seen countless bikes in the market whose seats sink. I have seen none labeled as unsafe though. Its a forum, so I am not seeing the full picture. I'd personally roll the dice on the 1/10000 chance that my beam sinks (I don't know what the odds are, just picking it out of the air).
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
DFW_Tri wrote:
EDIT: I do currently have counsel, and my counsel has reviewed this statement. END EDIT

I am a lawyer. Because of my particular job, I can't give you legal advice, but here's the best personal advice I could possibly give you:

Get new legal counsel. Immediately. Seriously.

I'm with you, seems weird.

AJ

-------------------------------------------------------
IM WC Hawaii 2024
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [jotate] [ In reply to ]
 
jotate wrote:
This thread has certainly been a good read. Here are some of my thoughts:
  • Jordan was a paid endorser of Dimond bikes and was contractually obligated to promote their brand. Even responding with a "It's OK.", or being noncommittal, when asked what he thought of the bike could be considered a breach of contract. I know we all seek advice on this forum, but we need to gather data and consider all aspects and make our own decisions.
  • It seems to me that Dimond is potentially exposing themselves to a lawsuit of their own. If they received multiple complaints and knew that the bike was "unsafe" and did nothing, or little, to fix the problem they could be in a bit of trouble.
  • I didn't think of the possibility that competitors could donate to the gofundme campaign in an attempt to damage, or eliminate, the Dimond brand.

I really hope that both sides can resolve this quickly.

These are all good thoughts. Especially number 2. Class action potential, but the Dimond Mafia will jump all over that one in a heartbeat.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
I don't want to speak for the OP but I myself trust the market. One can call me a sheep or a follower if they like but I put my trust into the brands that have an established following, reputation and market share. I'll let someone else pave the trail on untested prototypes and new technologies. I spend my hard earned dollars on stuff that I know works. Cervelo, Specialized, Trek, Felt, Saucony, Brooks, New Balance etc, etc.


Thomas Gerlach wrote:
kmill23 wrote:
This is why I never trust anything a sponsored athlete has to say about the equipment he or she is using.

Good luck in the fight. But like others have said, this is a no-win for everyone but the lawyers.


Out of curiosity, so who do u trust? Do u trust the salesman at the store, do u trust the magazine writer, do u trust your coach, your fellow peers. If it is your peers, do some peers matter more than others?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
I haven't read the whole thread, but sending positive vibes your way.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
devashish_paul wrote:

Hey Rob, no one has been able to answer one of my questions above. If the Dimond beam "sinks" do you just end up with a lower seat position in a "bottomed out" fail safe mode or do you have the chance of the rear beam hitting the rear wheel moving at 80

First up, I would be pissed if I had Jordan's bike. Period.

Secondly, despite being loose there is no way the beam can go lower than the standard seated position unless the bolt came free and / or the carbon holding the bolt collapsed. It is unlikely there would have been much play whilst riding BUT, see my point above.

I wouldn't want it. I would happily ride Jordan's bike from a safety point of view but not forever. I wouldn't happily ride it due to the fact that who wants to ride a bike that has an issue that needs addressing. I think Jordan likely has elevated levels of worry due to his accident too (reasonably so). A man who worries about the perfect thickness of coffee grinds is never going to out up with anything let alone a beam that - in the video at least - absolutely looks like it needs sorting.

I had a Dimond. It was an amazing bike. I crashed it hard (t-bone at 25mph) and needed a new bike. I got another Dimond. I have heard stories, obviously, about quality issues but have always received exemplary customer service when required (I was one of the early adopters and the paint had some issues - this was fixed with A frame being sent after a pleasant one minute phone call) good communication and my bike has had nothing of the issues reported by Rapp - which I am not downplaying.

I can't imagine this is doing either party any good - although at this point in his career I imagine Rapp has less to lose, if I was Dimond I would not have gone this route. I am not a fan of paying for other people's legal obligations either though.

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
 
PBT_2009 wrote:
Yes, fair points. Respect. Perhaps this is beating a dead horse, but wouldnt he be contractually obligated to promote the brand and be an ambassador of sorts? To say positive things publicly? Or at least he couldn't insinuate it was an unsafe bike with QC issues?

So he may not have been voluntarily "lying"...he was saying internally "shit if I don't endorse this product they're gunna sue/fire me, and they're working on the problems I've raised with them"? Just a thought. Even if someone asked him what he thought and he said something vague or noncommital, wouldn't that basically be the same as saying this bike is horrible? Dimond wouldn't like that.
I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make.
Are you saying it's not lying if you have a contract that tells you to do it?
Or, are you saying it's lying, but he probably felt bad about it?

Incidentally, I don't think Jordan is claiming either of these. As I read his comments, he claims he was fooling himself into thinking the bikes were okay really and the issues were just temporary. Didn't really think he was lying at the time. I don't find that convincing, but......
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
 
James Haycraft wrote:
but the Dimond Mafia will jump all over that one in a heartbeat.

The Dimond Mafia is probably collectively curled up a fetal position on the shower floor with a bottle of Jim Beam, and unfit for legal action at the moment. Someone should go check on them.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Rappstar wrote:

Then, in early January, I received a letter from a lawyer in Iowa demanding that I make a payment of $150,000 - roughly 17 times the total amount Dimond had paid me over two years - or that Dimond would pursue legal action against me from breach of contract.

And there lies the rub - $6800 ($1700x4) per year and some free bikes was all it took for you to sell your integrity.

I've had no beef with you, but this really does rub me the wrong way. It's one thing to be an ambassador for a brand that you personally support. It is a whole different ball game to be an ambassador for a brand that you personally don't believe in. Why didn't you start fighting this sooner? Yes, I read your entire post and this whole thread, but if the situation was that bad, then it begs the question of why were you so complacent and okay with misleading everyone else--the same people you are now asking for help from?

IDK. I'm interested in hearing Dimond's sides of things and I wish you the best of luck regardless.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Tri Bread] [ In reply to ]
 
Also a lawyer and agree - get new counsel. This thread is only costing you.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
devashish_paul wrote:

Hey Rob, no one has been able to answer one of my questions above. If the Dimond beam "sinks" do you just end up with a lower seat position in a "bottomed out" fail safe mode or do you have the chance of the rear beam hitting the rear wheel moving at 80 kph. Since I have ridden down Palomar with you at 80 kph, I am guessing its just a 'sinking' beam thing. If that is the case, I don't see how this makes this bike unsafe, you might just go slower in your training ride or race. I can see how that affects you as a pro triathlete.

Hey Dev - there is a big bolt holding the beam up front - so it cannot really sink unless the carbon breaks (either where the bolt is, or the beam itself). The design is such that the bolt and the "lower frame" support all the weight. The issue with the seat dropping happens when the seat clamp doesn't hold the seatpost, so the seatpost drops and bottoms out against the end of the beam. For most riders, that means that their seat drops a few mm, which although inconvenient, is not unsafe. They resolved those seat clamp issues quite a long time ago.

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
 
Morelock wrote:
Sure. I'm not upset (at all, don't really care) that he didn't say "Dimond bikes suck" while they were paying his bills, hell I'm not even upset he basically lied point blank to people who asked his opinion on the bike at the time. But if it's a moral crusade he's taken on, which is what I got from "why he's not going to let this be settled" then that ship sailed when you told people it was a fine product. You are free to disagree, I am not trying to change anyone's mind. I hope it works out for all parties.

Yep, this is basically what I thought about all of this. I've been reading along as if it's some kind of daytime tv but I find it hard to see anyone feeling that bad for Rapp on this one. The problem is he says one thing then says something to contradict it completely. You can't claim to be worried about your safety for the sake of your family whilst at the same time advising others to buy a bike that you feel is unsafe, as if they don't have families who would miss them should something happen. While he may have believed changes were being made he was still openly plugging the bike even though the model, at that point in time, 'unsafe'.

It seems to me that in this position the sensible solution would have been just to buy a new bike and have it de-stickered to ride whilst sorting issues out with dimond. By taking on a new sponsor you're just inviting a lawsuit, surely!?

I run a business with my wife and we're 'sponsored' by a few of the businesses whose products we use so I do totally appreciate that pros have to pimp the s@@@ out of anything they can but there's still room for ethics. If you only take on sponsors you believe in it's pretty easy to promote their products.

I think what I find most amusing about all of this is that just yesterday I was reading a thread where Rapp was telling someone - in an extremely condescending manner - that test rides were pointless.

Regardless of the bikes flaws (if proved) this has been handled in the worst way possible from start to end on Rapp's part. As a seasoned pro he should have known better! Asking for crowdfunding support and promoting a product you think is fundamentally dangerous are just too far for me.

Respect - gutter.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AustinDuDude] [ In reply to ]
 
AustinDuDude wrote:

Jordan, shame on you for starting this public fight

Once again, not taking sides but Dimond started this public fight. Ruster (Plaintiff) vs Rapp (Defendant). Some of you think Jordan filed the lawsuit. Not the case.

That's one very important fact and distinction.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [robgray] [ In reply to ]
 
robgray wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


Hey Rob, no one has been able to answer one of my questions above. If the Dimond beam "sinks" do you just end up with a lower seat position in a "bottomed out" fail safe mode or do you have the chance of the rear beam hitting the rear wheel moving at 80 kph. Since I have ridden down Palomar with you at 80 kph, I am guessing its just a 'sinking' beam thing. If that is the case, I don't see how this makes this bike unsafe, you might just go slower in your training ride or race. I can see how that affects you as a pro triathlete.


Hey Dev - there is a big bolt holding the beam up front - so it cannot really sink unless the carbon breaks (either where the bolt is, or the beam itself). The design is such that the bolt and the "lower frame" support all the weight. The issue with the seat dropping happens when the seat clamp doesn't hold the seatpost, so the seatpost drops and bottoms out against the end of the beam. For most riders, that means that their seat drops a few mm, which although inconvenient, is not unsafe. They resolved those seat clamp issues quite a long time ago.

I have no skin in this fight other than I like both of the men in this dispute. I just needed clarity on the "failure mode" because I personally could not see how this would be UNSAFE to ride and this entire thread might end up being a spread of misinformation towards the uninformed that overly penalizes the company's design and manufacturing.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
Quote:


Hey Dev - there is a big bolt holding the beam up front - so it cannot really sink unless the carbon breaks (either where the bolt is, or the beam itself). The design is such that the bolt and the "lower frame" support all the weight. The issue with the seat dropping happens when the seat clamp doesn't hold the seatpost, so the seatpost drops and bottoms out against the end of the beam. For most riders, that means that their seat drops a few mm, which although inconvenient, is not unsafe. They resolved those seat clamp issues quite a long time ago.


Quote:
I have no skin in this fight other than I like both of the men in this dispute. I just needed clarity on the "failure mode" because I personally could not see how this would be UNSAFE to ride and this entire thread might end up being a spread of misinformation towards the uninformed that overly penalizes the company's design and manufacturing.


Yea, but...that may be "fine" for JRA'ing, but when you are RACING and your entire livelihood depends on that result...

Which is the foundation of the alleged breach of contract...
Last edited by: James Haycraft: Apr 27, 17 6:56
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
exactly - that's my concern too - the underlying current of the GoFundMe page is that the bike is unsafe - which is absolutely not the case.

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
TheTort wrote:
I agree.... a sinking saddle is not a "danger" to most. But on a $10k bike, a sinking saddle should have never made it out of production. And someone trying to sell a used $10k bike with a now-known sinking saddle issue probably just lost most of the value of their bike. Loss of value due to a hidden manufacturing defect is deceptive advertising... see VW.

Even if not unsafe, is a bike with a sinking saddle raceworthy? I'd think not.

Also, the contract likely has an attorneys' fees provision. If so, and Rapp prevails, what is he going to do with the fees he is awarded?

Attacking this day with enthusiasm unknown to mankind.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [wolfen] [ In reply to ]
 
Anyone want to venture an over/under guess as to how long the Diamondback sponsorship lasts?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [robgray] [ In reply to ]
 
robgray wrote:
exactly - that's my concern too - the underlying current of the GoFundMe page is that the bike is unsafe - which is absolutely not the case.

I think you're wrong, the underlying current is that the bike is not fit for a professional (Jordan, in this instance) to race. "RACE" is the key word in all of this. Whether you (general you, not you specifically) agree with that foundation or not is open to interpretation.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.

I wish him luck in the lawsuit... but yeah this is what I suspect with many pros and the sponsorship equipment, supplements, etc. I'm not mad about it but here is proof nonetheless.

Add me to the that thinks this public statement isn't a good idea... but I'm not a lawyer.
Last edited by: xeon: Apr 27, 17 7:06
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]
 
CPT Chaos wrote:
Except that the claim would be seriously weakened as none of this noise would have happened if they had not sued in the first place. Their lawsuit has brought this onto them, without it, there would be no brand damage.

Which is patently ridiculous. People on ST are not saying they aren't going to buy the bikes because Dimond is "bullying" Jordan, they are saying they are not buying the bikes because Jordan is now saying that they are inherently badly made and manufactured, and, dangerous. If the reason was the former, there may be some veracity to that argument. As it's the latter, there isn't. The noise wouldn't have happened had Jordan not chosen to ask, in public forum, for support in this case and proceeded to state why Dimond bikes (the bikes themselves) are so bad. Had he dealt with it like almost every other person/company does when being sued (i.e. taking legal advice, keeping quiet and dealing with it all in the background) then no one would have been any the wiser and no one would have been publicly stating that they don't want to by Dimond bikes anymore because they are scared they are dangerous.

At best this is just evidence Dimond can show as damages for breach of contract (in an endorsement deal the basics are: 1 - use our stuff; 2 - say nice things about our stuff). By saying bad things about Dimond, whether or not Jordan believes them to be true, he will be in breach of those terms. At worst this is a form of libel/slander and, again, all of these posts just evidence the damage Jordan's statement has made to Dimond's brand and reputation.

I have no sympathy whatsoever. Jordan, by this post, is severely (irreparably as many here are claiming - oh dear, Jordan) damaging Dimond's brand and, if I were Dimond, I would be throwing the kitchen sink at this and Jordan.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [LundyLund] [ In reply to ]
 
unless he counter-sues for reputation damage, he's not going to get much more than attorneys fees. If Dimond wins, honestly they aren't going to get much. I don't know about jordan, but most pros race under a "corp" name, just like a small business would to protect their personal assets. By the time anyone pays a penny Dimond will be out of business and Jordan will be a motivational speaker.

USAT LIIE Certified Coach
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
 
Replying to you only b/c yours is the last post.

A while back didn't uber-AGer Sam Gyde allude to serious QC issues with his Dimond and promise a write-up after they were resolved? Did anything come out of that?

An LBS owner (and ST frequenter) whom I trust also saw issues similar to these on a Dimond brought into his shop for a fit. It just seems I've heard about a lot more of these types of issues on Dimonds than other bikes. My perspective, anyway.

Anyway, unfortunate all around, and it definitely makes both parties look bad. I think Dimond will really regret this lawsuit.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
 
He severed the relationship months ago, said nothing and then was sued. His statements now are so far after the point, that it is laughable that you put anything to them. This lawsuit is empty. Jordan quit his job, essentially, and repaid his salary for the unearned future. There is nothing Dimond could do, or any other employer/et al to stop that.



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [1poseur1] [ In reply to ]
 
1poseur1 wrote:
dhr wrote:
Can't wait to read Thomas Gerlach's take on this. Has he posted yet?


Hilarious. I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully he will be able to turn his response into a 300 word missive about how he recommended a tire or how he commutes by bike.
In Reply To:


I just don't get a comment like this. So you would rather have me work towards taking sponsorship where my true views could be silenced? Where I would be forced to ride and promote that particular company's tires? Although maybe I need another 600 words to truly explain myself, I sometimes yes add tangential things to my posts as either assertions or commentary to provide context of what I am saying. I apologize if it is nonsense to you, but I can assure you I am thinking about it and trying to be as clear and transparent as possible even if tersity is lacking.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
Last edited by: Thomas Gerlach: Apr 27, 17 7:30
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [mbwallis] [ In reply to ]
 
mbwallis wrote:
I think Dimond will really regret this lawsuit.
IME, it's rare for either party to emerge unscathed in these types of situations.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [jw13] [ In reply to ]
 
I agree 100%. What lawyer in their right mind would not tell you to STFU? Whether an arrest or a lawsuit... keep your mouth shut...this boggles my mind. Everything you say and do WILL be held against you. Counter sue and call their bluff. Sounds like they are S.O.L. and just throwing lawsuits to see what sticks. There is no way I would be giving them arrows for their quiver though.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]
 
CPT Chaos wrote:
He severed the relationship months ago, said nothing and then was sued. His statements now are so far after the point, that it is laughable that you put anything to them. This lawsuit is empty. Jordan quit his job, essentially, and repaid his salary for the unearned future. There is nothing Dimond could do, or any other employer/et al to stop that.

Endorsement contacts are not the same as your typical "at will" employee/employer relationship. That said, it probably would have been in Dimond's best interest to treat Jordan like an employee who resigned

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [bluestacks867] [ In reply to ]
 
"What is the difference between a Dimond and a Diamondback?"

Dimonds are not forever.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [robgray] [ In reply to ]
 
robgray wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:

Hey Rob, no one has been able to answer one of my questions above. If the Dimond beam "sinks" do you just end up with a lower seat position in a "bottomed out" fail safe mode or do you have the chance of the rear beam hitting the rear wheel moving at 80 kph. Since I have ridden down Palomar with you at 80 kph, I am guessing its just a 'sinking' beam thing. If that is the case, I don't see how this makes this bike unsafe, you might just go slower in your training ride or race. I can see how that affects you as a pro triathlete.

Hey Dev - there is a big bolt holding the beam up front - so it cannot really sink unless the carbon breaks (either where the bolt is, or the beam itself). The design is such that the bolt and the "lower frame" support all the weight. The issue with the seat dropping happens when the seat clamp doesn't hold the seatpost, so the seatpost drops and bottoms out against the end of the beam. For most riders, that means that their seat drops a few mm, which although inconvenient, is not unsafe. They resolved those seat clamp issues quite a long time ago.

If that bolt is taking some of the load, and especially if the two pieces of carbon are as loose as in Jordan's video, it seems there is a possibility the connection was improperly designed. I have not seen what's going on inside there so I cannot say for sure.

Does that bolt really serve a structural purpose other than increasing friction between carbon surfaces? I.e.does the edge of the hole which the bolt goes through push on the bolt itself to provide that structure? From the video it appears that way.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
InstagramFacebook
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [robgray] [ In reply to ]
 
robgray wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


Hey Rob, no one has been able to answer one of my questions above. If the Dimond beam "sinks" do you just end up with a lower seat position in a "bottomed out" fail safe mode or do you have the chance of the rear beam hitting the rear wheel moving at 80 kph. Since I have ridden down Palomar with you at 80 kph, I am guessing its just a 'sinking' beam thing. If that is the case, I don't see how this makes this bike unsafe, you might just go slower in your training ride or race. I can see how that affects you as a pro triathlete.


Hey Dev - there is a big bolt holding the beam up front - so it cannot really sink unless the carbon breaks (either where the bolt is, or the beam itself). The design is such that the bolt and the "lower frame" support all the weight. The issue with the seat dropping happens when the seat clamp doesn't hold the seatpost, so the seatpost drops and bottoms out against the end of the beam. For most riders, that means that their seat drops a few mm, which although inconvenient, is not unsafe. They resolved those seat clamp issues quite a long time ago.

depending on how you cut the seatpost, you can make it so it doesn't move at all.



---------------------------------------
Fruit snacks are for winners
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
TheTort wrote:
unless he counter-sues for reputation damage, he's not going to get much more than attorneys fees. If Dimond wins, honestly they aren't going to get much. I don't know about jordan, but most pros race under a "corp" name, just like a small business would to protect their personal assets. By the time anyone pays a penny Dimond will be out of business and Jordan will be a motivational speaker.


The raceworthy aspect might be how he prevails on who first breached the contract. Even if he wins that, I agree he won't get damages. But, if a bunch of people are paying his fees as he goes, and he is then awarded them as the prevailing party, what is he going to do with that money? Is it going to the foundation? I also agree with your assessment about Dimond's likelihood of recovery.

I, too, am a lawyer. I, too, was puzzled that his lawyer would approve him posting here. I suspect there's a tactical reason for it, but the risk of it backfiring seems high. Rapp, I'm not going to tell you to get another lawyer, but you should definitely be questioning your counsel hard about why he would have you do something like this, its potential consequences, etc. Good luck.

Attacking this day with enthusiasm unknown to mankind.
Last edited by: LundyLund: Apr 27, 17 7:27
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [mbwallis] [ In reply to ]
 
mbwallis wrote:
Replying to you only b/c yours is the last post.

A while back didn't uber-AGer Sam Gyde allude to serious QC issues with his Dimond and promise a write-up after they were resolved? Did anything come out of that?

An LBS owner (and ST frequenter) whom I trust also saw issues similar to these on a Dimond brought into his shop for a fit. It just seems I've heard about a lot more of these types of issues on Dimonds than other bikes. My perspective, anyway.

Anyway, unfortunate all around, and it definitely makes both parties look bad. I think Dimond will really regret this lawsuit.

There was never any follow up from Sam about his issues. He moved to Ventum. Then within the past several months he moved back to the new Dimond Marquise.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [LundyLund] [ In reply to ]
 
LundyLund wrote:
Even if not unsafe, is a bike with a sinking saddle raceworthy? I'd think not.

By racing on the bike(s) multiple times, is that accepting them as 'raceworthy'? I'm not saying that it is or it isn't, just something to consider.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
 
*IF* Dimond broke the contract first by not providing a suitable bike, then the contract is null and void and Jordan is no longer bound to keep quiet and say nice things about Dimond.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
InstagramFacebook
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
 
RowToTri wrote:
*IF* Dimond broke the contract first by not providing a suitable bike, then the contract is null and void and Jordan is no longer bound to keep quiet and say nice things about Dimond.

Hard to prove the bike was not suitable when he was recommending it to everyone who asked, never had an actual frame failure by his own admission, won an Ironman aboard it, etc etc
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [lovegoat] [ In reply to ]
 
lovegoat wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
Herbert wrote:
If you have such an ongoing bad image of Dan and ST, why are you even here?


For threads like this one, of course.

EDIT: On a more serious note, I will say that this is obviously a fast-moving story, and Dan has stated that he has reached out to Dimond for comments. Until there is an in-depth, balanced article on the front page, though, Dan/ST is failing to fulfill his/its journalistic role. That's why I originally asked "when are we going to hear Dimond's side of the story?" (Note: I find it amusing that Jordan replied to my question by providing more from his side of things. Yeah, he had to dive back into the thread somewhere, but what an odd place to do it.)



While I'd welcome a front pace article (and I expect there to be one), I disagree with you statement.

Should this thread not be allowed to surface because Dimond has not yet whished to comment, despoter been given the opportunity?

Also, I'll add that everyone is ofcourse entitled their own opinion, and Im not surprised by the number of "jump the gun"-approaches. The way I see it the main concern for Dimond with this thread is the issue of wheter or not they make good/safe bikes. Every company should tolerate and expect that this is discussed ad infinitum on the Internett, and in this respect I dont view this thread any different from of if I were to start a thread on what I dislike on my 2009 Trek.

The twist that makes this kinda viral is the contractual relationship between Rapp and Dimond, and Rapp's "status" om ST. When Dimond chooses to sue Rapp - and making the dispute public - I see no reason why Rapp shouldnt be allowed to start a thread on it.

All the other issues; whom you sympathize with, is it smart on Rapp's, account, etc, is for anyone to decide, but are not reasons to pull the thread.

Hold on now - I never said anything about the existence of this thread. It was Jordan's decision to start it, and while I can only assume that Dan advised him against it, as I said before I am not surprised that he let it stand. What I'm wanting to see is a neutral/balanced report on the topic - after all, Dan has assumed the role of a journalist, so I think he owes the world as much. If he doesn't think he can be objective, that's cool too, just turn the job over to someone who can be. So far, though, he hasn't even responded with "we're working on a story - sit tight." I therefore don't feel the least bit guilty of applying a little pressure to try to get Dan/ST to do their self-appointed duties.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
TheTort wrote:
unless he counter-sues for reputation damage, he's not going to get much more than attorneys fees. If Dimond wins, honestly they aren't going to get much. I don't know about jordan, but most pros race under a "corp" name, just like a small business would to protect their personal assets. By the time anyone pays a penny Dimond will be out of business and Jordan will be a motivational speaker.

I have a couple of questions for the corp pros but the only ones I know also have coaching businesses. Do you have some names I could reach out to about some questions that don't have coaching businesses???


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
 
Ron_Burgundy wrote:
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.


Good point. Additionally, it seems atypical for Diamondback to not cover is legal fee's, i am guessing there is more to this than meets the eye. In the end you are under contractual obligations unless formally released, we all know how useful verbal agreements are in the court of law.

Agree with Ron_Burgundy and SBRcoffee.

Free Legal Advice - Always follow up potentially important business phone calls and conversations with a quick synopsis letter or email. If it can not be read it was never said.

David K
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
SBRcoffee wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
*IF* Dimond broke the contract first by not providing a suitable bike, then the contract is null and void and Jordan is no longer bound to keep quiet and say nice things about Dimond.

Hard to prove the bike was not suitable when he was recommending it to everyone who asked, never had an actual frame failure by his own admission, won an Ironman aboard it, etc etc

Presumably he has all the emails he sent to Dimond to address the bike issues while he was still trying to make it work and abide by his contract which required him to say nice things? He only decided that they had not lived up to their end when the third bike, in his estimation, was still not race-worthy.

Right now all I have to go on his his side of the story but that's what it seems to boil down to.

Whether Jordan is being overly picky about the bike or not, the lawsuits against him and their former rep seem to be both beyond the pale and also counter to their own interests. I cannot understand why they would want to focus such a public spotlight on this by filing lawsuits unless there are internal things we do not yet know about. Hard to imagine what they could be.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
InstagramFacebook
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
not off hand. But just about every pro I have talked to (US Pro) goes under a corp name for many benefits. Mostly tax reasons because it's easier to write everything off. I'm a coach and go under a corp name for taxes and to protect myself. Keeps my personal finances protected in case something ever happened. I can answer some questions, and those i can't I can go in the bedroom and ask my wife. She's the lawyer. :-)

USAT LIIE Certified Coach
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
 
"Jordan is now saying that they are inherently badly made and manufactured, and, dangerous."

as a point of order, that is not what i read in his original post. i looked for an evidence-free blanket statement about a product. i didn't find that. i read his own personal experience (colored by a very bad past crash that has made him hypersensitive to many aspects of cycling) with the frames he has gotten.

i have no wisdom on whether his post was a good strategy.

on a personal note, in 30 years of being a litigant, of arbitrating litigations and fee amounts, in spectating litigations of all sorts, only once in that time did i see either side benefit from a litigation. every other time both sides are worse for the exercise.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
But he posted here under his personal name so (even if they couldn't pierce that corporate veil), guess what that means???
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
 
lbmxj560 wrote:

Which is patently ridiculous. People on ST are not saying they aren't going to buy the bikes because Dimond is "bullying" Jordan, they are saying they are not buying the bikes because Jordan is now saying that they are inherently badly made and manufactured, and, dangerous. If the reason was the former, there may be some veracity to that argument. As it's the latter, there isn't. The noise wouldn't have happened had Jordan not chosen to ask, in public forum, for support in this case and proceeded to state why Dimond bikes (the bikes themselves) are so bad. Had he dealt with it like almost every other person/company does when being sued (i.e. taking legal advice, keeping quiet and dealing with it all in the background) then no one would have been any the wiser and no one would have been publicly stating that they don't want to by Dimond bikes anymore because they are scared they are dangerous.

At best this is just evidence Dimond can show as damages for breach of contract (in an endorsement deal the basics are: 1 - use our stuff; 2 - say nice things about our stuff). By saying bad things about Dimond, whether or not Jordan believes them to be true, he will be in breach of those terms. At worst this is a form of libel/slander and, again, all of these posts just evidence the damage Jordan's statement has made to Dimond's brand and reputation.

I have no sympathy whatsoever. Jordan, by this post, is severely (irreparably as many here are claiming - oh dear, Jordan) damaging Dimond's brand and, if I were Dimond, I would be throwing the kitchen sink at this and Jordan.

I don't disagree with you at all but that is why I was scratching my head last night. Jordan is intelligent and TJ is brilliant as well (pun intended just for DHR). I know there are a lot of lawyers in the forumn scratching their heads as well. Maybe this is just THE emotions of two very powerful personalities who are both winners and just refuse to lose and quit. A part of me thinks this was a very tactical plan by both parties. I can see the Stratego board as we speak.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [trail] [ In reply to ]
 
trail wrote:
James Haycraft wrote:
but the Dimond Mafia will jump all over that one in a heartbeat.

The Dimond Mafia is probably collectively curled up a fetal position on the shower floor with a bottle of Jim Beam, and unfit for legal action at the moment. Someone should go check on them.

That was me on Nov. 8.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
That actually doesn't matter. Corporate protections are quite broad. And I don't know about Rapp's status. I'm talking from complete "if he has a corp" status. if he doesn't, that could be messy.

USAT LIIE Certified Coach
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Bu the inference is clear - Jordan didn't want to ride the bikes as he didn't feel they were very well made and very competitive. Him showing videos of the bike flexing and not being joined properly is inferring, in some way or another, that they are unsafe. That is certainly an argument I would be running on behalf of Dimond. Whether or not that's successful is for a judge to decide, but Jordan is not helping his own defence here.

And I agree entirely. When talking with my clients I always describe litigation as the "nuclear button". Once a claim is issued there is no going back, the fallout is terrible and no one comes out of it looking or feeling good. No one wins but the lawyers. That's coming from a lawyer.

However, this doesn't make it right, or sensible, for Jordan to be so public about the dispute or to ask for others to fund his defence.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Come on Dan, there is always a winner..... it's called BMW, Mercedes and Land Rover.... that's what the lawyers buy when they take on these cases and laugh all the way to the bank.

USAT LIIE Certified Coach
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
 
Andrew Coggan wrote:
Dan has assumed the role of a journalist, so I think he owes the world as much. If he doesn't think he can be objective, that's cool too, just turn the job over to someone who can be. So far, though, he hasn't even responded with "we're working on a story - sit tight."

we're working on a story - sit tight.

you're absolutely right. there is no way this is not news.

i have a lot of personal affection for jordan. i feel a lot of solidarity with TJ, because i did what he is doing. i don't sense any gravitational pull from one side over the other. just, i don't really want to write until i have something fundamentally true and helpful and illustrative to write. i haven't heard from TJ, or ruster sports, or its attorney. there absolutely are facts that weigh in favor of their side. i don't need to talk to them to report those facts because i think i know what they are. still would like to hear what they have to say before i write anything.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
I am a little confused as to why people expect Dimond to reply to any of this? If I was them I would sit here, read and screenshot everything and work on an unbeatable prosectution based on the fact that Jordan has clearly outlined everything he has in his defence. It's like giving them your entire strategy.

Once it's settled statements can be made!
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
Ok let me spell it out...He didn't post here under a corporate name. Personal posting=personal liability. Dimind's attorneys are licking their chops right now.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
 
RowToTri wrote:

Whether Jordan is being overly picky about the bike or not, the lawsuits against him and their former rep seem to be both beyond the pale and also counter to their own interests. I cannot understand why they would want to focus such a public spotlight on this by filing lawsuits unless there are internal things we do not yet know about. Hard to imagine what they could be.

While I agree that the lawsuit seems to be counter to their interests, I wouldn't characterize the suit as "beyond the pale." Let's not forget, Jordan began endorsing a competitor's product while he was still under contract, whether or not he wanted to be, with Dimond.

One side cannot typically arbitrarily declare the contract null and void, especially over a subjective issue such as a providing a "suitable" bike. If Jordan and Dimond disagreed over that point, the issue should have been resolved through arbitration or litigation before Jordan began endorsing Diamondback bicycles.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Pb] [ In reply to ]
 
Ding, ding, ding!!!

As well as their evidence for new claims that will be added based upon the post.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Apr 27, 17 12:06
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
I agree. I think both parties are thinking they are being smart AF. In fact, one, or both of them, are being monumentally stupid.

The only thing I can liken this to is a pistol due where both parties end up being shot in the face at the same time. Each one has "won", but the losses both have suffered in "winning" are catastrophic. Dimond could go out of business, Jordan could be bankrupted. Well done both.

Without sight of Jordan's endorsement contract I cannot pass comment on whether or not Dimond may be in breach of its obligations to him, but I suspect they pretty much amount to: (1) we'll give you some stuff for free; (2) we'll pay you some money to use our stuff and say nice things about it. As long as they've done that then it's for Jordan to show that what they've supplied him amounted to a breach. However (and bearing in mind this is UK law, but I suspect US law is largely the same), Jordan should have terminated the contract for breach. He can't just pretend the contract doesn't exist and hope it goes away. In English law this is called repudiatory breach. If he doesn't terminate the contract as a result of Dimond's breach (if there was one), he will be in breach by not doing what he is contractually obliged to do.

I wouldn't like to call this one but do wonder why his legal advisor has suggested this is a good way of going about things...
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
 
RowToTri wrote:
*IF* Dimond broke the contract first by not providing a suitable bike, then the contract is null and void and Jordan is no longer bound to keep quiet and say nice things about Dimond.


I'm not a lawyer, but I think it'd best to not unilaterally consider a contract null and void.. Better to get a signed piece of paper terminating it. I'd think it should have gone along the lines of, "I won't say anything bad about Dimond, ever. You let me go ride another bike. Please sign here."
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
TheTort wrote:
Come on Dan, there is always a winner..... it's called BMW, Mercedes and Land Rover.... that's what the lawyers buy when they take on these cases and laugh all the way to the bank.

there was a big legal fight at USAT, back in 2004. a bunch of board members were suing another bunch of board members. i was not a party to it. my job, when it was all over, was to cram down the legal bills. i thoroughly reveled in it as you might guess (telling attorneys how much of their bills they were really going to get). but that's another story.

i did spectate the entire case, start to finish. i spoke to all the litigants, many times. what i found notable - shocking, really - is that both sides' lawyers reported to their clients that their case was a slam dunk win. how could both sides' attorneys be certain of a slam dunk win?

in the end it was kind of a rollback to the status quo, some hundreds of thousands of dollars and several burnt hides later. who paid? you paid. i paid. everybody who bought an annual or one day license paid.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
I have to admit, that's a new one on me. I have been practicing law for about 10 years and I have NEVER EVER heard any lawyer say a case is a slam dunk. Not in the US or the UK. It's a surefire way of your client coming back and suing you for negligence if you lose the case, or even, don't get the full result they were expecting.

And, yes, I have a vested interest in this statement, but let's not blame the game, blame the player. If people didn't sign stupid contracts, or do stupid things in breach of stupid contracts, then litigators would be out of business. It's not their fault their clients do stupid things and then ask them to tidy things up afterwards. Guess what, that costs money.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
we're working on a story - sit tight.

1. I would expect no less.

2. Why didn't you just say so before?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [trail] [ In reply to ]
 
trail wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
*IF* Dimond broke the contract first by not providing a suitable bike, then the contract is null and void and Jordan is no longer bound to keep quiet and say nice things about Dimond.


I'm not a lawyer, but I think it'd best to not unilaterally consider a contract null and void.. Better to get a signed piece of paper terminating it. I'd think it should have gone along the lines of, "I won't say anything bad about Dimond, ever. You let me go ride another bike. Please sign here."

That seems like it would have been a better way to handle it. And as Gary p mentioned, if Dimond did not want to let Jordan out of the contract when he informed them that they were in breach, it would be normal for the contract to specify arbitration. We do not know if that was in the contract. In my very very limited experience with sports contracts, the things we usually expect in the business world sometimes do not show up in them. Mostly because people are trying to save money and write the contracts without a lawyer.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
InstagramFacebook
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
DFW_Tri wrote:
Ok let me spell it out...He didn't post here under a corporate name. Personal posting=personal liability. Dimind's attorneys are licking their chops right now.

I would be personally liable regardless. In hindsight, I should have created an LLC early in my career and done business under it. I've always operated as a sole proprietor.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
 
lbmxj560 wrote:
Bu the inference is clear - Jordan didn't want to ride the bikes as he didn't feel they were very well made and very competitive. Him showing videos of the bike flexing and not being joined properly is inferring, in some way or another, that they are unsafe. That is certainly an argument I would be running on behalf of Dimond. Whether or not that's successful is for a judge to decide, but Jordan is not helping his own defence here.

And I agree entirely. When talking with my clients I always describe litigation as the "nuclear button". Once a claim is issued there is no going back, the fallout is terrible and no one comes out of it looking or feeling good. No one wins but the lawyers. That's coming from a lawyer.

However, this doesn't make it right, or sensible, for Jordan to be so public about the dispute or to ask for others to fund his defence.



Agree, there will be no winners here. Jordan is taking a hit on his rep and Dimond is certainly taking a hit on theirs as well. Personally, I can't imagine Dimond, with their struggle to build a brand and expand a business made the decision to go public (file a lawsuit) like this.....they have much more to lose it seems. The money they were paying to endorse their product appears minimal.....but I guess that's the triathlon business. Based on Jordan's story, I'm not sure why he needs a huge legal slush fund. It appears to me if his story is correct, why not just stand in front of a judge and tell the story.....case closed? Does anyone think Dimond has a significant budget to spend and hire a "high priced" attorney? Once Dimond filed the lawsuit, it became public. Bad decision......everyone loses here.

ps....not needing an answer here but per Rapp....if Diamondback can get the same kind of letter and fire back a "stern" reply that makes it apparently go away, why can't Rapp's attorney do the same? And yes, would add to the growing list, Jordan probably should stop contributing to this post for now.


Last edited by: gphin305: Apr 27, 17 8:40
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
 
Andrew Coggan wrote:
Why didn't you just say so before?

i sat down 3 times to do so. wrote it out. got ready to post it. and didn't. in times like this i just find myself wanting to communicate less rather than more. i am by nature a bucketmouth but at least i know that about myself. i felt there was nothing i couldn't write a few hours later, after taking the dogs on a walk and ruminating about the wisdom i should and would have used had i just thought about things a bit more first. so i thought about things a bit more first.

i know that inconvenienced you and others and i regret that.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [] [ In reply to ]
 
I am here to complain about my Falco

Internet User
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
DFW_Tri wrote:
EDIT: I do currently have counsel, and my counsel has reviewed this statement. END EDIT

I am a lawyer. Because of my particular job, I can't give you legal advice, but here's the best personal advice I could possibly give you:

I don't know anything about your lawyer and didn't even see his name until after I posted this but based upon the above I would say...Get new legal counsel. Immediately. Seriously.

Maybe the lawyer approved the post because it could help Rapp pay his attorneys' fees. ;)

The result is secondary and "out of his control."
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
ajthomas wrote:
davews09 wrote:
Is there a way to access this complaint from the public domain? I have 0 legal expertise.


Of course there is.

Des Moines County Clerk. You have to pay $25 to read the original petition. This is how I know that Dimond is also suing Chris (and Ventum).

*Polk County

Tweet WattsUpKarin Blargh
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
DFW_Tri wrote:
EDIT: I do currently have counsel, and my counsel has reviewed this statement. END EDIT

I am a lawyer. Because of my particular job, I can't give you legal advice, but here's the best personal advice I could possibly give you:

I don't know anything about your lawyer and didn't even see his name until after I posted this but based upon the above I would say...Get new legal counsel. Immediately. Seriously.

x10

(I am a lawyer as well)

"if you chose it, it's not really pain"
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
 
Sam went back bc of free bikes

Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
 
gphin305 wrote:
Does anyone think Dimond has a significant budget to spend and hire a "high priced" attorney?

TJ's wife, I think, is an attorney. Though I doubt she'd be doing this case.



---------------------------------------
Fruit snacks are for winners
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
 
QFT

Dark Mark wrote:
I am here to complain about my Falco

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Mike Alexander] [ In reply to ]
 
One would assume as such but a non-compete has to be limited in scope, geography, and time. It would be pretty unreasonable to argue that Jordan couldn't be sponsored by another bike company as he's a professional triathlete. They could potentially restrict him from promoting another beam bike. I think it would be a tall order to get a favorable decision enjoining somebody who rides for a living from promoting another brand of bike.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [sethjk] [ In reply to ]
 
sethjk wrote:
One would assume as such but a non-compete has to be limited in scope, geography, and time. It would be pretty unreasonable to argue that Jordan couldn't be sponsored by another bike company as he's a professional triathlete. They could potentially restrict him from promoting another beam bike. I think it would be a tall order to get a favorable decision enjoining somebody who rides for a living from promoting another brand of bike.

You're thinking in terms of a non-compete clause in an employment contract. This was an endorsement contract. Very different animal. Its completely reasonable that Dimond would expect him not to accept sponsorship from a competing bike manufacturer while he was still under contract with them.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
"Jordan is now saying that they are inherently badly made and manufactured, and, dangerous."

as a point of order, that is not what i read in his original post. i looked for an evidence-free blanket statement about a product. i didn't find that. i read his own personal experience (colored by a very bad past crash that has made him hypersensitive to many aspects of cycling) with the frames he has gotten.

i have no wisdom on whether his post was a good strategy.

on a personal note, in 30 years of being a litigant, of arbitrating litigations and fee amounts, in spectating litigations of all sorts, only once in that time did i see either side benefit from a litigation. every other time both sides are worse for the exercise.

Thanks for the point of order. I would agree.

A couple of other things I would add:

1) No one knows why Chris is being sued. It might be breech of contract, it might be slander, heck who knows? And while it is possible that Chris is being sued simply because he went to a competitor and that seems wrong, to automatically assume it is a corporate bullying tactic is wrong.

2) The idea that this is somehow a money grab by Dimond is stupid. Any reputable lawyer would tell you that you don't sue someone with the expectation to make money.

3) Speculation that Dimond is hurting, going to go out of business etc... is possible, but interpret this suit in anyway as an indication of that is highly speculative. (In fact if anyone did some digging they might conclude the opposite).

Lastly, I have access to some of the non-public information about the case so I assumed I could get the actual filings as well. I was mistaken. It seems I cannot get the actual petitions. Sorry, I told a few people I could get them so please allow me to wipe the mud off my face : ( !

(PS: Dan I'll post in the LAV room about a case in which I was the clear winner, so make that 2 in 30 years).
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
 
ericMPro wrote:
QFT

Dark Mark wrote:
I am here to complain about my Falco

On a serious note, I wonder how Cervelo is feeling about this right now. Perception is reality to some extent and there are a lot of people who are not STers, who don't really care about pro triathlon, and who are just casual triathletes. All they see is a beam bike being declared unsafe. They won't do the research to determine the facts and get a clearer picture and will jump to conclusions. Will this also kill the P5X?


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
 
Post deleted by sgy [ In reply to ]
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm curious about the timing of the suit. Could JT not have waited until after IM Texas before suing?

AJ

-------------------------------------------------------
IM WC Hawaii 2024
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
i don't feel comfortable posting it because i'm not a party to the dispute.

I feel comfortable. Here are the filings: https://www.dropbox.com/...ESYAXEgHCcHFT6a?dl=0

Based on cursory review, the case against Blick looks a bit weak (except for this e-mail that he sent trying to sell Ventum's to customers or would-be customers that he knew from his Dimond days) and the case against Rapp looks strong (i.e. clear breach of contract).
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
A few points: First, why would anybody make a conclusion as to who is "right" without hearing the other side of the story? I see a lot of posters convicting Dimond having only heard Rapp's plea. Let's wait for Dimond's response, which is forthcoming.

Second, I too think it's in poor form to create a GoFundMe for something someone has the money to pay for themselves. I really am annoyed by this new GoFundMe culture in general. What happened to people paying for what they can afford instead of taking money from strangers (medical expenses not-withstanding)?
*I'm considering starting a GoFundMe for a down payment on a new house. F-it!

Third, I have a Dimond. Bought it late last year and I live in the Pac NW where it rains for nine months a year, so it has very few miles on it. I can't speak to the longevity of the structural aspects of the bike, but I'm happy with what I've seen. Apparently the beam is in question here, but mine is super solid. My very experienced fitter was curious to see how much it would flex when I put all my weight on the saddle so he measured it. Zero. Not a single micrometer. It's early but it feels like a solid frame. No creaks, no flex, no paint problems. On a related note, I rode a P5 for about 5 years before I bought the Dimond. I retired the P5 because it was always in the shop (Plus it was the most bloody uncomfortable chunk of carbon I've ever been on).

Finally, a lot of posters talking about how this is "the end" for Dimond. Let's not write an obituary already. There's a tendency by active forum members in any realm, whether it be multisport, or needlepoint, to assume that because they really like to gossip on a forum, that most of the people involved in that activity see the banter and make buying decisions based on it. The triathlon world is much bigger than ST, and most athletes will never have any idea that Rapp is claiming that Dimond makes defective bikes. I am a relatively competitive triathlete myself, and have been for almost 10 years. I pop into this forum maybe twice per year. I didn't buy my Dimond because Jordan Rapp said it was cool, or because some other athletes who I don't know from Adam sing their praises. I bought it because a friend of mine was happy with his purchase and recommended it. The vast majority of Dimond owners seem to be happy with the bikes and Dimond's customer service, and love to tell people about them. That's how they'll continue to sell bikes.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Tri Bread] [ In reply to ]
 
Tri Bread wrote:
I'm curious about the timing of the suit. Could JT not have waited until after IM Texas before suing?

Maybe this is why rapp said he couldn't post a pic of his andean? but he did eventually post a pic of his andean before imtx right? (there was something about a video of him putting it together?) maybe once he did that tj went ahead with the suit? just spitballin here...
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
ajthomas wrote:
1) No one knows why Chris is being sued. It might be breech of contract, it might be slander, heck who knows? And while it is possible that Chris is being sued simply because he went to a competitor and that seems wrong, to automatically assume it is a corporate bullying tactic is wrong.


Theft of trade secrets.


But let's focus here. I need to talk to someone about my Falco.

Internet User
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
DFW_Tri wrote:
EDIT: I do currently have counsel, and my counsel has reviewed this statement. END EDIT

I am a lawyer. Because of my particular job, I can't give you legal advice, but here's the best personal advice I could possibly give you:

I don't know anything about your lawyer and didn't even see his name until after I posted this but based upon the above I would say...Get new legal counsel. Immediately. Seriously.

+1

I can't imagine any attorney signing off this post.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
devashish_paul wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


We have seen countless bikes in the market whose seats sink. I have seen none labeled as unsafe though. Its a forum, so I am not seeing the full picture. I'd personally roll the dice on the 1/10000 chance that my beam sinks (I don't know what the odds are, just picking it out of the air).

Maybe someone needs to start asking what the heck is Jordan doing to all these seat posts. By my count, he's been sponsored on a Shiv, Dimond and Diamondback. They all have had seat post failures (at least according to Jordan, based on the IMTX post). What the heck is going on?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [bmeer] [ In reply to ]
 
bmeer wrote:
depending on how you cut the seatpost, you can make it so it doesn't move at all.

yeah - my seatpost is cut perfectly so that it's slammed at exactly the correct height. I did that more out of laziness so that I just need to slam it and I know it's right.

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
 
Dark Mark wrote:
ajthomas wrote:
1) No one knows why Chris is being sued. It might be breech of contract, it might be slander, heck who knows? And while it is possible that Chris is being sued simply because he went to a competitor and that seems wrong, to automatically assume it is a corporate bullying tactic is wrong.



Theft of trade secrets.


But let's focus here. I need to talk to someone about my Falco.

It is every bit as lovely as you.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
 
Yes. Who wants to by a Dimand bike now? Duh

RowToTri wrote:
SBRcoffee wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
*IF* Dimond broke the contract first by not providing a suitable bike, then the contract is null and void and Jordan is no longer bound to keep quiet and say nice things about Dimond.


Hard to prove the bike was not suitable when he was recommending it to everyone who asked, never had an actual frame failure by his own admission, won an Ironman aboard it, etc etc


Presumably he has all the emails he sent to Dimond to address the bike issues while he was still trying to make it work and abide by his contract which required him to say nice things? He only decided that they had not lived up to their end when the third bike, in his estimation, was still not race-worthy.

Right now all I have to go on his his side of the story but that's what it seems to boil down to.

Whether Jordan is being overly picky about the bike or not, the lawsuits against him and their former rep seem to be both beyond the pale and also counter to their own interests. I cannot understand why they would want to focus such a public spotlight on this by filing lawsuits unless there are internal things we do not yet know about. Hard to imagine what they could be.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
 
James Haycraft wrote:
robgray wrote:
exactly - that's my concern too - the underlying current of the GoFundMe page is that the bike is unsafe - which is absolutely not the case.

I think you're wrong, the underlying current is that the bike is not fit for a professional (Jordan, in this instance) to race. "RACE" is the key word in all of this. Whether you (general you, not you specifically) agree with that foundation or not is open to interpretation.

Not trying to drag someone else into this... but hasn't Jesse Thomas won a few races aboard the Dimond? Sorry Jesse.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [robgray] [ In reply to ]
 
Sounds like somebody needed more cattle rustlers in their ancestry.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [sgy] [ In reply to ]
 
sgy wrote:
I do not ride a bike that doesn't please me.

And THAT... is the lesson of all this. Wise words. Would make a good t-shirt. :)

I like both Jordan and Dimond. Hopefully they can work this out.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
 
Point taken. Though I'd still find it hard to believe that these agreements would prohibit an athlete from switching bike sponsors. Athletes switch sponsors all the time- whether it be Nike to Under Armor or similar.
On the other hand, the contract didn't expire, it was unilaterally terminated or breached by Jordan which would give rise to the cause of action...Potentially interesting case but I'd probably focus more on the breach claims. Haven't seen any talk about a Temporary Restraining Order enjoining Jordan from riding a competitor's bike.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
 
When does the contract was supposed to end ?
End of 2016 ?
If so, we are in april 2017 so I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to say now whatever he thinks about Dimond bikes.
No ?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
Quote:
https://rappstarcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/ruster_v_rapp.pdf

What is it with important legal documents always being photocopied in the worst possible way / shitty quality? Specifically the last page.

My 4-year olds $20 kid's smart watch can take a better high rez photo than the photocopy work done there.

"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
kileyay wrote:
Slowman wrote:
i don't feel comfortable posting it because i'm not a party to the dispute.


I feel comfortable. Here are the filings: https://www.dropbox.com/...ESYAXEgHCcHFT6a?dl=0

Based on cursory review, the case against Blick looks a bit weak (except for this e-mail that he sent trying to sell Ventum's to customers or would-be customers that he knew from his Dimond days) and the case against Rapp looks strong (i.e. clear breach of contract).

Thanks for posting this.

For those saying Dimond is in rough shape, using some simple math, you can figure out the company's 2016 gross sales. Rapp said he got his quarterly payment of $1,700. According to the contract, he was to be paid 0.5% of the company's gross sales from the pervious year split into quarterly payments. So his annual cut was $6,800, meaning the company had something in the neighborhood of $1.36 million in gross sales in 2016.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
TheTort wrote:
unless he counter-sues for reputation damage, he's not going to get much more than attorneys fees.


Does it seem to you this is his intent and not just for damage to reputation?
Last edited by: ajthomas: Apr 27, 17 9:40
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
i can't control what people think or write. i haven't tried to control opinions or conclusions people draw. i do my best to monitor statements of fact (if not tied to evidence or limited to personal experience).

i have no idea why chris blick is getting sued. i have no knowledge that ruster sports is in anything but great financial shape.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
If I'm cervelo I'm delighted that 50% of my competition in the stupidly high end beam bike market just imploded. The sales they will scavenge from this will outweigh such a tenuous link to perceived safety issues in their own bike 10x.
If I'm the OP I'm clearing my accounts and assets because unless he has irrefutable evidence that contract was toast the best thing he can hope for is that rusted go under before he can't pay his lawyer any more. Otherwise they are getting his house, particularly now with this thread.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [jeremyscarroll] [ In reply to ]
 
I think it is $960,000 because $500 is automatic. SO it is .5% of 4800.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
devashish_paul wrote:
Jordan, a quick question on the beam-frame mate location and the "fail safe" mode. If at that joint the interface fails (not a carbon crack, but the friction holding the beam in place is insufficient to suspend the rider weight), when the beam "sinks" how low can it go? Is there a "bottom out" position that would not result in any calamity, or would it just sink right down to the rear tire.

In the aviation world we had the categories safety critical and mission critical. If your system failed but you just lost the mission that was less problematic than the system failing and the air crew crashing. In this case, is your issue a mission critical one where you can't finish the training ride or the race, or is it safety critical where a rider could get injured/hurt? This is unclear in this thread and I have not seen the design close enough to know the fail safe mode.

Dev

I think you are asking a question here for which we do not have enough information to answer. I will say, that in my opinion, anything that goes wrong with a bike in a critical situation can be catastrophically dangerous, including having your seat suddenly drop a few inches (much less have a beam that is not solidly attached) (note: I am not saying that the Dimond is susceptible to either of these). You, probably more than most of the rest of us, know this, but when I think of the saves I have had to make (especially at high speed (which means for me going down hill)) (e.g., having to dodge an obstacle) where the margin of error starts to get really small, if one more thing went wrong I would have been much less likely to get myself safely through it.

As to Jordan, I am slow to criticize him for his ongoing endorsements prior to the break-up. Trust is at bottom more of an emotion than a rational thought process. So, Jordan trusted TJ and his product based on a number of things (personal relationship, expectation of TJs good faith, etc.). He bought in. But then he hit a breaking point (maybe something that Jordan thought was a clear safety issue wasn't being addressed) and the trust was broken. At that point it is human nature to look back and think "how could I ever have let myself trust this bike?" I read Jordan to be saying he questions his endorsement. So I do not necessarily think he is being dishonest or a hypocrite. We just do not know enough at this time. I do not know Jordan, but I very much like the persona he projects on ST. I hope that is actually who he is and if so I hope he can get through all this without too much damage.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [dprocket] [ In reply to ]
 
dprocket wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


We have seen countless bikes in the market whose seats sink. I have seen none labeled as unsafe though. Its a forum, so I am not seeing the full picture. I'd personally roll the dice on the 1/10000 chance that my beam sinks (I don't know what the odds are, just picking it out of the air).

Maybe someone needs to start asking what the heck is Jordan doing to all these seat posts. By my count, he's been sponsored on a Shiv, Dimond and Diamondback. They all have had seat post failures (at least according to Jordan, based on the IMTX post). What the heck is going on?

1) The first couple years of the Shiv (tri) had a known defect. Specialized warrantied many of these frames. I don't believe the issue was widespread enough for a full recall, but they replaced any frame that exhibited the defect. And the fixed the design by incorporating a carbon "brace" that wrapped from the front of the lug around the back of the cutout for the post and back to the front of the other lug.

2) The seatpost on my Serios has never slipped. And I had zero problems with the post on my Andean before Texas during training; I am still not sure why it slipped in Texas. Humidity? At home, I use a torque wrench to tighten everything. On the road, I use torque keys or my "travel" Silca torque wrench. The recommended torque spec for the expansion plug mechanism (used on all DB frames) is 7Nm. It's possible that I simply under-torqued it, especially since I was going from an air-conditioned (low humidity) hotel room to the outside environment was enough of a change to cause some things to loosen. At home, I keep my bikes in my garage. So there is minimal variance inside/outside and also there are big temperature swings overnight and during the day, as opposed to a hotel room where it's the exact same temp 24/7. I don't know. I do know that I really cranked down on the expansion plug bolt and rode for 3.5hrs on Sunday (the day after the race), and the seatpost never budged.

As far as why this happens, I have some ideas. When I ride, I move left/right on the saddle a lot. It's just the way I pedal. I have been told from a visual perspective (not a power perspective), I ride a bit like Cadel Evans:

I think this makes it more likely that I will have issues with a seatpost saddle. I.e., IF THERE IS A PROBLEM, it will show up sooner with me that with someone who doesn't move quite so much in the saddle. I think that may be why, in spite of traveling with a torque wrench, I saw the issue that I did on the Shiv's seatpost. I was appropriately gentle with it when I was building the bike, but I'm harder on the bike that an "average" rider when I ride.

I also tend to ride relatively small frames. Like, I rode a medium Shiv, so I had a LOT of seatpost exposed. Likewise, on the Dimond, I rode a medium frame with the extra-long seatpost. Longer seatposts are going to put more torque on things. So if you have someone with a long seatpost who also moves a lot on the saddle, that's going to be a "worst case scenario" in terms of stress. Now, it's not abnormal. But I can see how why I'm more sensitive to issues than other riders. Once Specialized fixed the issue with the lugs on the Shiv, I never had a problem again. But I can see why the initial design, which was more prone to failure, failed on me.

I also ride my bike a lot. Just based on probability, someone who rides 8-10,000 miles a year, who travels to 10ish races a year, and who has been racing professionally for 10+ years is going to experience more problems than someone who rides less. If a design has a problem, I'm going to find it.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [sethjk] [ In reply to ]
 
Quote:
I'd still find it hard to believe that these agreements would prohibit an athlete from switching bike sponsors. Athletes switch sponsors all the time- whether it be Nike to Under Armor or similar.

Athletes switch sponsors but athletes with contracts in place definitely do not switch sponsors without getting sued. The only reason you don't see situations like this often in the higher level pro sports is that those athletes have agents and lawyers making sure the athletes have their legal affairs in order.
Last edited by: STP: Apr 27, 17 9:19
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [tripot] [ In reply to ]
 
tripot wrote:
When does the contract was supposed to end ?
End of 2016 ?
If so, we are in april 2017 so I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to say now whatever he thinks about Dimond bikes.
No ?

I may be wrong, but I think Jordan told me once it was a 5yr contract



---------------------------------------
Fruit snacks are for winners
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
ajthomas wrote:
I think it is $960,000 because $500 is automatic. SO it is .5% of 4800.

The contract said he gets paid $500 a quarter for the first year. And for the second through fifth years of the contract, it's 0.5% of gross sales. Nothing about an automatic $500 payment.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
 
Sean H wrote:
Tri Bread wrote:
I'm curious about the timing of the suit. Could JT not have waited until after IM Texas before suing?

Maybe this is why rapp said he couldn't post a pic of his andean? but he did eventually post a pic of his andean before imtx right? (there was something about a video of him putting it together?) maybe once he did that tj went ahead with the suit? just spitballin here...

Totally unrelated. I posted plenty of pics of my Serios. I couldn't post pics because of the Andean there's a prototype part on there: https://www.instagram.com/...?taken-by=jordanrapp

I had to get approval from the PR department before I could post the pics. That's what I was waiting for. Seal of approval from marketing. I still can't comment on it, but several people have already pointed out what it is (it's quite obvious).

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
QFT

Dark Mark wrote:
I am here to complain about my Falco


On a serious note, I wonder how Cervelo is feeling about this right now. Perception is reality to some extent and there are a lot of people who are not STers, who don't really care about pro triathlon, and who are just casual triathletes. All they see is a beam bike being declared unsafe. They won't do the research to determine the facts and get a clearer picture and will jump to conclusions. Will this also kill the P5X?

This event will kill nothing (except a lot of our time) folks who are saying this will kill Dimond... c'mon. Cervelo? right...

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [bluestacks867] [ In reply to ]
 
bluestacks867 wrote:
Quote:
https://rappstarcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/ruster_v_rapp.pdf

What is it with important legal documents always being photocopied in the worst possible way / shitty quality? Specifically the last page.

My 4-year olds $20 kid's smart watch can take a better high rez photo than the photocopy work done there.

I did it with my smartphone. It was simply to send it to my lawyer who already knew pretty much everything in it. And the quality from which I'm starting is pretty poor. It's like a game of "telephone" here - it's a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy...

The last page is the last page of my contract, which I have (and I know what it says), so the fact that it is barely legible isn't really relevant.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
TJ has said he is issuing a statement today. (Facebook)
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
I agree the case against Jordan looks pretty strong. The contract doesn't give the athlete much recourse in terminating the agreement or arbitrating deficiencies in their obligations. It does clearly state that he would need to petition in Iowa to sever the agreement due to "not providing frames suitable for training and racing" which I'm guessing Jordan did not.

I wonder how Diamondback feels about this? What did Jordan tell them before he signed with them?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
 
Dark Mark wrote:
I am here to complain about my Falco

You rarely make me laugh but that time you did. Nice work.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [logella] [ In reply to ]
 
Thanks for your compliment-insult, whoever you are.

Internet User
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
i can't control what people think or write. i haven't tried to control opinions or conclusions people draw. i do my best to monitor statements of fact (if not tied to evidence or limited to personal experience).

i have no idea why chris blick is getting sued. i have no knowledge that ruster sports is in anything but great financial shape.

cough...Pubes...cough

"It's good enough for who it's for" - Grandpa Wayne
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
kileyay wrote:
Slowman wrote:
i don't feel comfortable posting it because i'm not a party to the dispute.


I feel comfortable. Here are the filings: https://www.dropbox.com/...ESYAXEgHCcHFT6a?dl=0

Based on cursory review, the case against Blick looks a bit weak (except for this e-mail that he sent trying to sell Ventum's to customers or would-be customers that he knew from his Dimond days) and the case against Rapp looks strong (i.e. clear breach of contract).

Thanks for posting those. As for the case against Blick, I was a recipient of that email and it was purely an update on his personal situation. There is not even a hint of him suggesting that he'd want to sell me a Ventum. Over and above that, I have a lot of contact with Chris (he's crewed for me twice at Ultraman, and we both live in Boulder) and not once has he ever even hinted or even spoke of the idea of me ever riding a Ventum. So from my perspective I really hope that the Blick case just gets thrown out ASAP.

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
In order to get to the point of filing a lawsuit regardless of industry it is typically due to: money or personal. I think most people would agree that most individuals in business do not want to go down this path, but if they do..its because it becomes personal.

It would appear from the surface that there is no reason why there could not have been a mutually agreed break-up. If this is not about the money, than it is personal between Rappstar and TJ...
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
 
Dark Mark wrote:
whoever you are.

Someone that routinely skips through your TRS segment.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Mike Alexander] [ In reply to ]
 
Will it be his own words or those written and drafted by his lawyer?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Consultri] [ In reply to ]
 
Consultri wrote:
I agree the case against Jordan looks pretty strong. The contract doesn't give the athlete much recourse in terminating the agreement or arbitrating deficiencies in their obligations. It does clearly state that he would need to petition in Iowa to sever the agreement due to "not providing frames suitable for training and racing" which I'm guessing Jordan did not.

I wonder how Diamondback feels about this? What did Jordan tell them before he signed with them?

Yeah, while I question whether Dimond could prove $150k in damages (at least before this thread and the go fund me page were posted), it doesn't look good for Jordan to me in terms of whether or not he was in breach of contract. The only out he seems to have in the contract rests on the subjective word "suitable." And since he and Dimond seemed to be at odds about whether or not the bikes were suitable, the only path for Jordan to nullify the agreement was through litigation in Iowa. Why he chose to sign with Diamondback without doing that first, I don't know. I can speculate that, with the impending launch of the Andean, there was as window closing to get in on that sponsorship deal so he jumped, hoping Dimond would eventually release him.

I, too, wonder what Diamondback knew. And whether his contract with them is now somehow in jeopardy.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
Dan has assumed the role of a journalist, so I think he owes the world as much. If he doesn't think he can be objective, that's cool too, just turn the job over to someone who can be. So far, though, he hasn't even responded with "we're working on a story - sit tight."

we're working on a story - sit tight.

you're absolutely right. there is no way this is not news.

i have a lot of personal affection for jordan. i feel a lot of solidarity with TJ, because i did what he is doing. i don't sense any gravitational pull from one side over the other. just, i don't really want to write until i have something fundamentally true and helpful and illustrative to write. i haven't heard from TJ, or ruster sports, or its attorney. there absolutely are facts that weigh in favor of their side. i don't need to talk to them to report those facts because i think i know what they are. still would like to hear what they have to say before i write anything.

In your article can you please technically investigate if the former or current frames are unsafe or not. If it is only the ultra low probability of a sinking beam during training or competition we need to know. Jordan's post at the start of this thread points to an unsafe bike whereas it may only be a low probability chance of a sinking beam reducing race performance. Important for race performance but is this a safety issue? Have any Dimond riders ever have a sinking beam in training or competition in a million plus cumulative rider miles?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
1. how on earth do you propose they investigate this?
2. no one cares about this sinking beam theory besides you.
3. there seems to be plenty of evidence of defects with manufacturing. see Jordan's points about the Samsung phone.

----
@adamwfurlong
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [sharkbaitguy] [ In reply to ]
 
sharkbaitguy wrote:
Will it be his own words or those written and drafted by his lawyer?

Didn't say, but I'm sure his attorney is involved!
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
Why didn't you just say so before?


i sat down 3 times to do so. wrote it out. got ready to post it. and didn't. in times like this i just find myself wanting to communicate less rather than more. i am by nature a bucketmouth but at least i know that about myself. i felt there was nothing i couldn't write a few hours later, after taking the dogs on a walk and ruminating about the wisdom i should and would have used had i just thought about things a bit more first. so i thought about things a bit more first.

i know that inconvenienced you and others and i regret that.

I call bs, Nobody in his right mind regrets inconveniencing Coggan. :)
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [logella] [ In reply to ]
 
logella wrote:
Dark Mark wrote:
whoever you are.


Someone that routinely skips through your TRS segment.

Going to have to be more specific

Internet User
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [tripot] [ In reply to ]
 
tripot wrote:
When does the contract was supposed to end ?
End of 2016 ?
If so, we are in april 2017 so I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to say now whatever he thinks about Dimond bikes.
No ?

Looks like it ends 2019.


--Chris
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [logella] [ In reply to ]
 
logella wrote:
Dark Mark wrote:
whoever you are.


Someone that routinely skips through your TRS segment.

You just made me laugh.

I stopped listening to TRS basically because of that awkward first 10-15 minutes of 'comedy'

AJ

-------------------------------------------------------
IM WC Hawaii 2024
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
 
Would you specify what size your frame is, and date of manufacture?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
Not taking a side on this either way but I must say that given how Dimond is a low volume product I would hope that every failure is taken serious and detailed root cause and corrective action was performed. When you are shipping only hundreds of a product a year, you don't have a lot of runway if there is a serious quality issue in your so you have to be extremely proactive.
Last edited by: forshy0516: Apr 27, 17 10:06
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [jeremyscarroll] [ In reply to ]
 
It does say compensation of $500 as stipend plus the .5%

Of course you could make the argument that it does not even start yet, since they have the date at start at 20015.

I am not sure that just short of 1 mil of gross sales is really anything to feel that strong about.

IF the series B funding happened (no idea) can you cash that it as settlement?

Not sure how Rapp feels about having his personal phone number and email published in docs on dropbox. I would have redacted those.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [sharkbaitguy] [ In reply to ]
 
Quote:
If this is not about the money, than it is personal between Rappstar and TJ...
If it wasn't personal before this thread, it probably is now.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
kileyay wrote:
Slowman wrote:
i don't feel comfortable posting it because i'm not a party to the dispute.


I feel comfortable. Here are the filings: https://www.dropbox.com/...ESYAXEgHCcHFT6a?dl=0

Based on cursory review, the case against Blick looks a bit weak (except for this e-mail that he sent trying to sell Ventum's to customers or would-be customers that he knew from his Dimond days) and the case against Rapp looks strong (i.e. clear breach of contract).

With regard to that email re Blick, it's not clear what is meant by customers and potential customers. It's also not clear whether the email was sent out while he was still an employee of Dimond. (I skimmed, but it appears that it was only sent out before he started work for Ventum. There may have been a gap.)

And I recognize that this case likely will be decided under Iowa law, even if removed to federal court, and I'm not familiar with Iowa law on point. If this were in California, a case alleging the misappropriation of a customer list can only proceed if that list or information about entities on the list is somehow proprietary. If the composition of the customer list is something well know to or easily obtainable by anyone in the industry, it may be difficult to argue that it's truly proprietary.

I can't say whether the case against Rapp looks strong from the complaint alone. But that goes for just about any complaint.

With regard to those recommending that Rapp consider a different attorney, I agree. But maybe more because I've never had a high opinion of Howard Jacobs and less because Jacobs greenlighted Rapp's original post. While the standard approach is to advice a client to not discuss publicly (or even privately) the case, there are times when the appropriate strategy is through the media.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
 
AlanShearer wrote:
I call bs, Nobody in his right mind regrets inconveniencing Coggan. :)

Ya think? Try parking your SUV too close to my car in a parking lot. ;)
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
Terms such as: fail, defective and unsafe will be a field day for lawyer fees.

Using the example of having two vehicles repurchased, my wife experienced the electrical system shutting down resulting in the loss of ability to operate the vehicle on multiple occasions. Each time it was taken to the dealership and "fixed". Now, would you feel safe driving the vehicle even though you were told that it has been fixed? No, even though the vehicle "may" have been fixed/repaired each time...there was always the doubt of what or when will it happen again. When it does, will it be worse?

I think the burden is to prove that the Dimond frame is truly "unsafe". What problems have been experienced and reported? Is this an isolated incident? Were repairs made or new frames issued? What attempts were made to fix the problem? Did the frame put the rider in jeopardy of experiencing a failure, crash, etc.?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ck21trhc] [ In reply to ]
 
ck21trhc wrote:
Sam went back bc of free bikes

Nope - I paid for my Dimond and my girlfriend paid for hers.
I also paid for my Ventum.
I do not ride a bike that doesn't please me.

I was an early Dimond adopter a few years ago. I had some issues (cosmetic in nature but still, you don't want issues with bikes at any pricepoint) and there has always been intention and action from Dimond to sort things out. The fact that I live in Europe and customs in Belgium are a real pain in the butt don't make it that easy to quickly solve some issues though and I will not deny that there has been some frustration at my side at some point.

Anyway, for the 2016 season, I purchased a Ventum because I did like the concept of that bike.

This season, I decided to switch back to the Dimond for a couple of reasons:
- fit: I can't get my saddle forward enough on the Ventum and the bike forces me to sit 3cm more backward then my preferred fit
- hydration and nutrition storage: the Ventum hydration concept is great but eliminates other options - it is probably perfect for a 70.3 distance. Anyway, this is just personal preference and has nothing to do with the quality of either bike but I prefer Dimond especially with their newest design.
- exposure: Ventum only puts its professional athletes in the spotlight which is fine as it is up to them to chose how to market their bikes. I do get more exposure with my Dimond bike (up till now that is...) which is nicer for the handful of other brands that are supporting me and for Dimond since they seem to value the results of amateur athletes more.

Unlike Jordan, I won't say something is good if it is not. It just proves that professional athletes don't bite the hand that feeds them.

Regarding the claims that the Dimond bike is potentially unsafe: I think that is a very over the top claim. I had seatpost issues with major bike brands. I have seen a Trek bike break in 2 pieces without an impact on the first climb of the WC cyclocross. Trispoke wheels have collapsed recently in a team TT race for several riders at the same team and time. A stem broke from a Specialized bike recently in Paris-Roubaix, ... There is a shitload of components failing around the world. However, I think it is pretty impossible to crack a Dimond beam while riding and believe me, Dimond has some pretty fat customers! So the statement that a Dimond bike is unsafe is an emotional one and probably triggered by the lawsuit of which I have no information and therefore no opinion.

In summary:
- I ride a Dimond because I like the bike
- I also have a Ventum and like that bike but it has some drawbacks for me (and a Blue Triad and a couple of Cervelo's)
- Getting a bike for free or getting a discount doesn't make me like a bike more or less
- Hopefully, Jordan and TJ can focus again on their main business rather soon but it won't affect my opinion on Dimond

Sam
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Consultri] [ In reply to ]
 
Consultri wrote:
I agree the case against Jordan looks pretty strong. The contract doesn't give the athlete much recourse in terminating the agreement or arbitrating deficiencies in their obligations. It does clearly state that he would need to petition in Iowa to sever the agreement due to "not providing frames suitable for training and racing" which I'm guessing Jordan did not.

I wonder how Diamondback feels about this? What did Jordan tell them before he signed with them?


The case alleging a breach by Rapp may appear strong, but does that justify $150,000 in damages? If Jordan offered to return the bikes plus the last quarter payment, why not counter for with something reasonable. Does Dimond, a company presumably with revenues of just over $1 million annually, really believe that the benefit of its bargain for the duration of the contract was $150,000? I can't imagine that a "journeyman" triathlete's sponsorship for a few more years would be that valuable.
Last edited by: AlanShearer: Apr 27, 17 10:23
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [sgy] [ In reply to ]
 
sgy wrote:
Dimond has some pretty fat customers!

Oh daaayyyuumm! The Dimond Mafia just doesn't need this right now.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
 
Before JR's post, or after?

Scott
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [tripot] [ In reply to ]
 
tripot wrote:
When does the contract was supposed to end ?
End of 2016 ?
If so, we are in april 2017 so I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to say now whatever he thinks about Dimond bikes.
No ?

2019
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [sgy] [ In reply to ]
 
I am not sure if anyone picked up on this one specific line item but it is nice to see TJ/Dimond requesting CleanProtocol for athletes. TJ is one of the staunchest supporters of anti-doping of any pro I have ever met. I hope we can at least agree that this is a nice line item that I never see in contracts.




Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [sgy] [ In reply to ]
 
sgy wrote:
ck21trhc wrote:
Sam went back bc of free bikes


Nope - I paid for my Dimond and my girlfriend paid for hers.
I also paid for my Ventum.
I do not ride a bike that doesn't please me.

I was an early Dimond adopter a few years ago. I had some issues (cosmetic in nature but still, you don't want issues with bikes at any pricepoint) and there has always been intention and action from Dimond to sort things out. The fact that I live in Europe and customs in Belgium are a real pain in the butt don't make it that easy to quickly solve some issues though and I will not deny that there has been some frustration at my side at some point.

Anyway, for the 2016 season, I purchased a Ventum because I did like the concept of that bike.

This season, I decided to switch back to the Dimond for a couple of reasons:
- fit: I can't get my saddle forward enough on the Ventum and the bike forces me to sit 3cm more backward then my preferred fit
- hydration and nutrition storage: the Ventum hydration concept is great but eliminates other options - it is probably perfect for a 70.3 distance. Anyway, this is just personal preference and has nothing to do with the quality of either bike but I prefer Dimond especially with their newest design.
- exposure: Ventum only puts its professional athletes in the spotlight which is fine as it is up to them to chose how to market their bikes. I do get more exposure with my Dimond bike (up till now that is...) which is nicer for the handful of other brands that are supporting me and for Dimond since they seem to value the results of amateur athletes more.

Unlike Jordan, I won't say something is good if it is not. It just proves that professional athletes don't bite the hand that feeds them.

Regarding the claims that the Dimond bike is potentially unsafe: I think that is a very over the top claim. I had seatpost issues with major bike brands. I have seen a Trek bike break in 2 pieces without an impact on the first climb of the WC cyclocross. Trispoke wheels have collapsed recently in a team TT race for several riders at the same team and time. A stem broke from a Specialized bike recently in Paris-Roubaix, ... There is a shitload of components failing around the world. However, I think it is pretty impossible to crack a Dimond beam while riding and believe me, Dimond has some pretty fat customers! So the statement that a Dimond bike is unsafe is an emotional one and probably triggered by the lawsuit of which I have no information and therefore no opinion.

In summary:
- I ride a Dimond because I like the bike
- I also have a Ventum and like that bike but it has some drawbacks for me (and a Blue Triad and a couple of Cervelo's)
- Getting a bike for free or getting a discount doesn't make me like a bike more or less
- Hopefully, Jordan and TJ can focus again on their main business rather soon but it won't affect my opinion on Dimond

Sam

Were I in the market for a bike, my thoughts on a Dimond would be far and away more strongly swayed by the above commentary than anything Rapp has to say about the quality of the bikes. Especially given Rapp's history of denigrating brands he doesn't like or that may be competitors of whatever brand he's currently shilling for.

Twitter
Instagram
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
 
Andrew Coggan wrote:
AlanShearer wrote:

I call bs, Nobody in his right mind regrets inconveniencing Coggan. :)


Ya think? Try parking your SUV too close to my car in a parking lot. ;)


 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [afurlong] [ In reply to ]
 
afurlong wrote:
1. how on earth do you propose they investigate this?
2. no one cares about this sinking beam theory besides you.
3. there seems to be plenty of evidence of defects with manufacturing. see Jordan's points about the Samsung phone.

Jordan is saying in the public domain that the bike is unsafe. I have seen many Dimonds in action and talked to many owners. No one that has spoken to me said the beam/frame mate intersection has been a safety problem. Rapp is the first that seems to be saying that. I think in slowman's article it would be great if he can come up with any evidence or examples of the area of the bike failing. Just cause Jordan thinks so does not mean it will. I am not sure if he has any hard proof of that himself.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
Dimond Club Members:
The quality and integrity of Dimond bikes has recently been brought into question by a former ambassador facing a lawsuit for breaching a promise in his contract.
I would like everyone to know that Dimond bikes are safe, have been safe, and continue to be safe. No customer who has purchased a production bicycle has advised Dimond of any failure in a bicycle that has resulted in any safety incident. Each Dimond bike has a 6 year warranty and continues to have a 6 year warranty.
Dimond bikes have always been safe for triathlon racing. The current bikes after 3 years of production are the best and safest bikes yet and the result of thousands of hours of work to constantly improve the bikes.
Jordan Rapp has now made first-time-ever claims about the safety of the Dimond Bicycle as a reason why he asked to be released from his contract. I am just now learning of these claims. I had multiple conversations with Jordan through phone and email regarding his desire to be released from his contractual obligations, but never during these conversations did he express any dissatisfaction with the product. Only after facing legal ramifications from a lawsuit claiming Jordan breached his promise did Jordan make these belated claims about safety. He admits that he never mentioned safety problems with the frames to Dimond.
If, before being sued for breach of promise, Jordan had in fact truly believed one of his Dimond bikes was unsafe, but failed to alert the manufacturer of that belief, he would prevent the manufacturer from taking steps to ensure the safety of all other purchasers of Dimond bikes. I do not believe Jordan would show such disregard for his fellow triathletes. I believe the fact is, he did not alert the manufacturer of any safety problem because there never was such a problem.
The Dimond is a safe triathlon racing bicycle. There are other important facts underlying Jordan's conduct, but I do not wish to engage in "trial by public forum". This is a breach of promise dispute I wish to settle privately, or fairly through the court system.
Regards,
TJ Tollakson, CEO Ruster Sports, LLC

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Please note that the only consensus on this thread is concern that the statements you are making here could harm you in the litigation. I can't give you legal advice here, but your lawyer should be able to discuss the risks of these public statements and how they may play out in the action. Please consider revisiting that discussion with him.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [j_rench] [ In reply to ]
 
j_rench wrote:
Second, I too think it's in poor form to create a GoFundMe for something someone has the money to pay for themselves. I really am annoyed by this new GoFundMe culture in general. What happened to people paying for what they can afford instead of taking money from strangers (medical expenses not-withstanding)?
*I'm considering starting a GoFundMe for a down payment on a new house. F-it!

You can try to fund a down payment with a GoFundMe but chances are it isn't going to succeed. That's the beauty of crowdfunding, people have to deem it a worthy cause... or not.

-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Jelana] [ In reply to ]
 
I wish Jordan luck finding a career in this sport when he retired from racing. He's burned a lot of bridges. And asking for his legal bills to be paid is a good reminder of the need for personal responsibility.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
I think a lot of people who spend that much on a bike are going to speak well of it to others and hype it up as part of the image of having the latest and greatest. A Dimond, or any new "superbike" is well outside the amount I would feel comfortable spending on a bicycle. I understand people want/need the status symbol though and the Dimond in particular is about as good looking a Tri bike as I've seen. P5X on the other hand is probably the most hideous looking bike to come out in many years. My own opinion of course.

All that said..... I really don't know where I was going with it actually. Basically it's hard to trust anything without personal experience with it. Most opinions we read about are influenced or swayed in one way or another and always will be.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
"Jordan is saying in the public domain that the bike is unsafe."

as well as i can tell, jordan said that his bikes did not meet his standards, such standards he felt were reasonable for him. i understand that conclusions might be drawn from such statements. nevertheless, what i'm writing above is my read of what he said. perhaps subsequent statements he made in this thread go further (if so, i didn't catch or see them). in any case, i'd like if we could stop ascribing to anybody (whether jordan or to dimond) acts or statements that are not true, are not proven, were not made, and so forth.

"I think in slowman's article it would be great if he can come up with any evidence or examples of the area of the bike failing."

should i write something today or tomorrow on the front page i don't anticipate any analysis of the product itself.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
 
"No customer who has purchased a production bicycle has advised Dimond of any failure in a bicycle that has resulted in any safety incident."


I wonder whether JR was provided a prototype or pre-production frame, making his issues with the bike(s) different from a normal customer?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
 
GreatScott wrote:
Before JR's post, or after?

Scott

My understanding is that the $150,000 demand was before JR's original post on this thread and was based primarily on a breach of contract claim. If JR's post is accurate when he discusses an "exit interview," then it may be difficult for Dimond to claim some kind of continuing breach. If they wanted to pursue his claims in his post, it most likely would have to be some form of defamation claim.

The question is would they want to litigate a defamation claim, as that could harm them just as much as if not more than Rapp's original post. But then again, pursuing a breach of contract claim against a relative insignificant sponsorship (no offense intended) where nobody knew about the breach before the filing of the complaint also seems to be a pretty dumb PR move.

In other words, Jordan may or may not have breached his contract. But assuming he did, it seems he had been relatively quite about the reasons for it up until Dimond filed a lawsuit. Maybe Dimond's damages were a bit more than what Jordan had offered, but it's hard to see that they were much more, and definitely not in the $150k range. Dimond could have easily settled, with a confidentiality clause, and moved on with a different athlete to sponsor. Nobody except a few and the know would have thought anything about it. Instead, Dimond prompted bad publicity by filing the lawsuit. They should have known that the defense would have been that the breach was justified and that that kind of defense invites bad publicity.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Fhirleighinn] [ In reply to ]
 
Fhirleighinn wrote:
It does say compensation of $500 as stipend plus the .5%

No it doesn't. It says:

"Sponsor shall compensate athlete with a quarterly stipend of $500 paid on or by March 31, June 30, September 30, December 31 for the first calendar year of the contract (2015). Sponsor shall compensate athlete with an annual stipend, paid quarterly, equal to 0.5% of gross sales from the previous calendar year for the second through the fifth calendar years of the contract (2016-2019)."

The first year, he got $2,000 divided into four payments. In 2016 (and the start of 2017), he got a cut of Dimond's revenues. (Which, math says, was $1.36 million in 2016 based on his first quarterly payment in 2017.)
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
 
+1

My take away is that anybody who sues a former friend for $150000 (on a 10k a year contract) because the friend didn't want to continue to endorse a bike he didn't like, is a jerk.

I don't know either party, but the Dimond brand is likely permantly sullied for me, not because of what JR said, but because Dimond filed the suit in question.

My other take away is that JR could have destroyed Dimond in the public eye without putting himself at risk of further litigation by choosing his words more carefully. I really wonder how that statement got "approved" by him and/his team.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
dev, this is not correct.

There are two failure modes. One is the seat post slipping, which would be generally non-catastrophic.
The other failure is with the pivot on the beam. The difference between the Dimond design and the original Zipp is that the Zipp had both the pivot, AND an m5 bolt. Normally that bolt is not under much load, unless the pivot were to fail. Then it would be under an enormous load and would probably fail. Steel bolt into a steel cam/pivot system into a threaded steel shaft into aluminum epoxied into the frame.

If the Dimond pivot fails, the beam comes off. You will crash. If the carbon AT the pivot fails, the beam will come off, and you will crash.

Since I was fixing a defect in the seat post area of my beam, I also added 3 layers of UD carbon to the pivot area on each side of my beam. It's not a terrible design, but Jordan is right that the tolerances must be extremely tight, and that Dimond's QC is not good enough in that respect.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
 
AlanShearer wrote:
. Instead, Dimond prompted bad publicity by filing the lawsuit.


Yeah, I think this is how the young kids these days would summarize it so far.

Rapp: "Shoot, I don't want to ride this thing anymore. What could be worse than this?"
Dimond: "Hold my beer."
Diamondback: "Wait, WTF is this all about?"
Rapp: "Hold my bath salts."
Spicer "NOT EVEN HITLER'S SEATPOST SLIPPED!"
Last edited by: trail: Apr 27, 17 11:00
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
 
Bryancd wrote:
I wish Jordan luck finding a career in this sport when he retired from racing. He's burned a lot of bridges. And asking for his legal bills to be paid is a good reminder of the need for personal responsibility.

I will speak to this. I have asked for HELP with my legal bills. I expect to pay the majority of the bill here. GoFundMe has refund options - both bulk and individual. Should it become clear that I do not require this assistance, I will more than happily reverse the GoFundMe.

As far as asking for help, I was reticent to do it. I still am. However, by that same token, I believe I have offered help - and not just "advice" - repeatedly throughout my tenure in this sport. One significant source of income for pros is selling old equipment. Certainly I've sold my fair share. And yet I've given away a great deal. If I'd sold the Shivs I gave away, if I'd sold the 808s I gave away, if I sold the parts I gave away, I'd have more money to defend myself from a lawsuit. I gave those items away gladly. I was happy and proud to be able to support someone else, because I was able to pay my bills with the money I earned. While everyone always "needs more money," I didn't need more money, and I was happier giving that stuff away than I was selling it. Maybe I should have thought, "hey, I should sell these because someday I might get sued and will need to pay a lawyer to defend me." But I never wanted to think that way. And, in spite of this, I still don't.

Now I am asking for that kind of help. Is it the result of my own actions? To a certain extent, but I did not choose to get sued. But I am asking for help as someone who has contributed to the ability of others in the sport to do it. If I did not have a track record of that support, I would not be asking for help in this way. But I do. And so, with great hesitation, I am.

Further, as to finding a career after sport, one of the great lessons for me here is to be extremely careful about who you do business with. If my actions here result in someone not wanting to hire me, that's not someone I wished to work for.

Ultimately, once I signed a contract and discovered the bikes were defective, I had three bad options:
1) I continue to ride bikes that I know are defective and do not trust.
2) I resolve the separation "amicably" and keep quiet about a problem that I know exists
3) I go public.

As I look back over the past two years, once I entered into this agreement, there was no way that this was going to end in a way that I was happy.

The only good solution I see now is that Dimond acknowledges the issues that I - and many others - have seen and works to correct them. So far, they do not seem to be interested in doing that.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
 
If I give a good enough sob story, maybe people will find it a worthy cause.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [jeremyscarroll] [ In reply to ]
 
So it would depend on the assumption if one or 2 check were cut. Looking at what Rapp originally said about the payment, it looks like the rest of us assumed it was one check, not 2, since they are both paid quarterly.

so it is either 900k or 1.25mil ish. Either way, not that much money when you figure all of the other expenses that they would have.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Rappstar wrote:
bluestacks867 wrote:
Quote:
https://rappstarcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/ruster_v_rapp.pdf


What is it with important legal documents always being photocopied in the worst possible way / shitty quality? Specifically the last page.

My 4-year olds $20 kid's smart watch can take a better high rez photo than the photocopy work done there.


I did it with my smartphone. It was simply to send it to my lawyer who already knew pretty much everything in it. And the quality from which I'm starting is pretty poor. It's like a game of "telephone" here - it's a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy...

The last page is the last page of my contract, which I have (and I know what it says), so the fact that it is barely legible isn't really relevant.

That make sense. I always wondered why the most important documents always looked like that. The deed restriction on my land was created in 2001 and it is barely legible. The document that was given to me was as you say, a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy.

"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [chicanery] [ In reply to ]
 
chicanery wrote:
dev, this is not correct.

There are two failure modes. One is the seat post slipping, which would be generally non-catastrophic.
The other failure is with the pivot on the beam. The difference between the Dimond design and the original Zipp is that the Zipp had both the pivot, AND an m5 bolt. Normally that bolt is not under much load, unless the pivot were to fail. Then it would be under an enormous load and would probably fail. Steel bolt into a steel cam/pivot system into a threaded steel shaft into aluminum epoxied into the frame.

If the Dimond pivot fails, the beam comes off. You will crash. If the carbon AT the pivot fails, the beam will come off, and you will crash.

Since I was fixing a defect in the seat post area of my beam, I also added 3 layers of UD carbon to the pivot area on each side of my beam. It's not a terrible design, but Jordan is right that the tolerances must be extremely tight, and that Dimond's QC is not good enough in that respect.

Correct. This is my exact assertion. And one that I expressed to Dimond on multiple occasions well in advance in of making my statement here. And I have records of that.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
So in regards to your "options" are you suggesting that coming to a private agreement with Dimond to release you from your contract that might have required you to remain silent on your perceived product quality issue was an actual option but you found that distasteful and decided going public was the better choice?

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [The Guardian] [ In reply to ]
 
The Guardian wrote:
+1

My take away is that anybody who sues a former friend for $150000 (on a 10k a year contract) because the friend didn't want to continue to endorse a bike he didn't like, is a jerk.

I don't know either party, but the Dimond brand is likely permantly sullied for me, not because of what JR said, but because Dimond filed the suit in question.

My other take away is that JR could have destroyed Dimond in the public eye without putting himself at risk of further litigation by choosing his words more carefully. I really wonder how that statement got "approved" by him and/his team.

I think I agree on all your points.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
 
Quote:
..the need for personal responsibility.


In emails, this has been the biggest sticking point that I've heard. And, it's difficult for me to criticize because this impulse to go to the public for funding, well, I think it's an issue of motive-driven values that are incongruent with many other people's values. But then those specific many-other-people's values are shaped by not having parental support, not having guidance and support in the pursuit of a college education, not having the support of returning home during the summers or after college to live at home, not having parents assist them financially while they go train with a triathlon team with pro ambitions.

I'm not saying these resource-deficient people are better, I'm saying that their life history has created a different set of values guided by support-system-related variables that would lead them to never imagine going public and asking for the public to subsidize their life. Having subsidies in the form of parental support, which led to the opportunity to attend an elite college, live at home, train with an elite team, leads to a value system consisting of goal-related motives that make accepting subsidies OK for the sake of seeking goal attainment. I'm not saying it's not OK, it's just a set of values that isn't congruent with a lot of other people's values, but then a life history that doesn't include parental-support-inspired values probably won't lead to the same type of success in life than if those non-support individuals had a professor-father and parental emotional and financial support - this support deficiency will also rob those hypothetical people of the delusion that they're primarily responsible for their self-efficacy and outcome in life.

This set of subsidy-influenced values also leads to these privileged individuals feeling beholden to repay their support provisioners through preservation of resources attained - this can be a good thing, as it leads to a generational accumulation of wealth (but it can also contribute to depression and anxiety). On the other hand, when it appears that someone is prioritizing savings for their children's future, preserving assets such as a house and car(s), and not returning to their parents for financial support as they had in the past, but rather turning to the public for financial subsidies, it can come across as the person having a set of values that align with a sense of entitlement to make the preservation of their personal resources a priority over the resources they are requesting from others. Yes, there have been the WBR causes, but then a large number of affluent college grads go to Africa and/or give to charities, as those causes seem to be an acceptable use of resources which would otherwise be protected and preserved in this hypothesized value system.

In a business setting, when you ask others for money, you have to open your books and go under review and you open yourself to critique (such as this one). The gofundme portion of the post could have been put on hold (maybe indefinitely) and the emotions that seemed to take front seat in the original post could have been edited by others. It's obvious TJ's letter was edited by his attorney and loved ones, and it comes across more rational and clear-headed. TJ did write that he's open to resolve this privately, referencing the legal process separately. I hope Jordan goes that route and prior to making his next detailed response, lets his attorney and loved ones see that it goes through many revisions with the hope that his role as a product ambassador can be restored and people can trust his product choices and recommendations.

edit: I'll note that I'm turned off by Dimond and don't ever see myself purchasing or recommending their product.

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
Last edited by: milesthedog: Apr 27, 17 12:52
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [trail] [ In reply to ]
 
trail wrote:
AlanShearer wrote:
. Instead, Dimond prompted bad publicity by filing the lawsuit.


Yeah, I think this is how the young kids these days would summarize it so far.

Rapp: "Shoot, I don't want to ride this thing anymore. What could be worse than this?"
Dimond: "Hold my beer."
Diamondback: "Wait, WTF is this all about?"
Rapp: "Hold my bath salts."
Spicer "NOT EVEN HITLER'S SEATPOST SLIPPED!"

Isn't the real issue here about who the fuck would build, much less ride, a beam bike? About as cool as helmet mirrors. Shame on Dimond. And shame on Rapp.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
 
There's no way at this point to make this right. Jordan has claimed the bike is unsafe in public and he's asking all of you to pay for it because he's helped you in the past by supporting and recommending multiple bike brands... until a better deal comes along.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
 
Bryancd wrote:
So in regards to your "options" are you suggesting that coming to a private agreement with Dimond to release you from your contract that might have required you to remain silent on your perceived product quality issue was an actual option but you found that distasteful and decided going public was the better choice?

Bryan....curious....do you have sponsorship agreements with all of the following (signature line)?

ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
 
Bryancd wrote:
So in regards to your "options" are you suggesting that coming to a private agreement with Dimond to release you from your contract that might have required you to remain silent on your perceived product quality issue was an actual option but you found that distasteful and decided going public was the better choice?

It was never an *actual* option. As I explained in my initial post, after my exit interview with Brad Bach, TJ's lawyer sent me a letter threatening me with a lawsuit. My lawyer responded outlining the defects in the frames I received - which I had enumerated to Dimond both after I discovered them and again, in summary, during my exit interview with Brad Bach. We made the following offer:
1) to return all frames to Dimond
2) to refund my Q4 2016 salary
3) to sign a mutual non-disparagement agreement

I was uncomfortable with #3, but I hoped that it could be crafted in such a way that I could speak frankly about my experiences with the frame if I was asked. I do not know if that was a reasonable desire or not. I wanted to be able to be honest. But I also, perhaps naively, still felt that Dimond could fix the issues I described and that they should be allowed to do so.

We never received any sort of reply. The next communication I received from Dimond was when a sheriff showed up at my door to hand me the lawsuit. As I said, my decision to go public was based on the clear perception that to TJ, filing a vindictive lawsuit is more of a priority than fixing the issues with his bikes.

So, no, I did not decide going public was the better option. What I felt was the reasonable option was rejected.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Fhirleighinn] [ In reply to ]
 
I am not clear on the date of these payments.

We're the checks issued after the date of the "exit interview"?

If the checks stopped rolling after the "exit interview", then isn't their some evidence that the relationship was terminated at that time?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
 
AlanShearer wrote:
The Guardian wrote:
+1

My take away is that anybody who sues a former friend for $150000 (on a 10k a year contract) because the friend didn't want to continue to endorse a bike he didn't like, is a jerk.

I don't know either party, but the Dimond brand is likely permantly sullied for me, not because of what JR said, but because Dimond filed the suit in question.

My other take away is that JR could have destroyed Dimond in the public eye without putting himself at risk of further litigation by choosing his words more carefully. I really wonder how that statement got "approved" by him and/his team.


I think I agree on all your points.

Just picking up on an earlier post, not sure what Dimond thinks the end game is. They know Rapp likely doesn't have much in the way of collectible assets or that couldn't be protected. There's no attorneys fees clause (and even if there were, see prior sentence). A "win" for them is neither a $ win nor a PR win. Not that I was in the market for a beam bike or a bike box for that matter, but if I was the tactics have turned me off the brand.

Howard Jacobs is a highly respected and experienced attorney. So the choice to vet and approve this statement is either very strange or very smart (or maybe both. or neither)
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
devashish_paul wrote:
For the record, I am still in the market for a small size Dimond. It might be beneficial for my disk/nerve issues as I get back into more riding.

Hi Paul,
Im not sure that the diamond would be the ticket; as the beam has very little vertical compliance. That is what I pointed out as the big miss when they were first introduced (and promptly ridiculed for on this forum). If they had gone the way of introducing some suspension (ala the zipp elastomers or similar) then the problem described may have not appeared, as the force on the lever arm of the beam would have been spread over a longer period, and thus had lower amplitude for each bump...but I digress. Anyway, I train on an old softride classic beam I bought off ebay for $154 shipped, and race on a titanflex. They have been great for my old back which seems to be feeling the crashes from my youth more now than 10 years ago.

Stephen J

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Mike Alexander] [ In reply to ]
 
No Mike. It's all product based as well, no cash.


Mike Alexander wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
So in regards to your "options" are you suggesting that coming to a private agreement with Dimond to release you from your contract that might have required you to remain silent on your perceived product quality issue was an actual option but you found that distasteful and decided going public was the better choice?


Bryan....curious....do you have sponsorship agreements with all of the following (signature line)?

ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Last edited by: Bryancd: Apr 27, 17 11:53
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
1poseur1 wrote:
dhr wrote:
Can't wait to read Thomas Gerlach's take on this. Has he posted yet?


Hilarious. I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully he will be able to turn his response into a 300 word missive about how he recommended a tire or how he commutes by bike.
In Reply To:


I just don't get a comment like this. So you would rather have me work towards taking sponsorship where my true views could be silenced? Where I would be forced to ride and promote that particular company's tires? Although maybe I need another 600 words to truly explain myself, I sometimes yes add tangential things to my posts as either assertions or commentary to provide context of what I am saying. I apologize if it is nonsense to you, but I can assure you I am thinking about it and trying to be as clear and transparent as possible even if tersity is lacking.


Lighten up, Francis.


-bobo

"What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded."
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Reading this thread, I now understand why people on here who know so much about the things in the industry probably pull their hair out when idiots like me make comments about things that I really have little basis to opine about.

I'm really trying to help you here because this is an area I'm qualified to discuss. You (and your attorney) could learn a LOT from the Dimond statement. Was it written or reviewed carefully by an attorney--of course!!! As it should be. Every posting/email/text you make that is not with your attorney is a deposition/trial exhibit and another 10 questions from an attorney at one or the other (or both) that will be thrown at you. And despite what may be good intentions, the postings aren't helping your legal case. As interesting as this thread is, Jordan, for your own sake, please stop...no good will come from it. Let the thread move on without your participation.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
I have to agree at this point. I can almost guarantee there's someone at Ruster doing a screen capture every half hour or so to capture everything new in case it's pulled.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
we're working on a story - sit tight.

you're absolutely right. there is no way this is not news.

As part of the story could you delve into the ownership structure of Dimond? I know TJ initially owned - outright - all of Ruster but I assume some new investors came on board when he expanded to bikes...
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
I mean how has this not gone from breach of contract to slander of the product? Won't Jordan be required to prove his claims posted a few pages back of concerns of catastrophic failure if the beam? How much will that cost?

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
Quote:
Jordan, for your own sake, please stop...no good will come from it. Let the thread move on without your participation.
+1

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
 
"I mean how has this not gone from breach of contract to slander of the product?"

alleged breach of contract and whatever potential new unlawful act to which you refer.

you can give you opinion. you can write about your own experience. i assume that your statement i've quoted is your opinion. if so, that is fine.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Rappstar wrote:


It was never an *actual* option. As I explained in my initial post, after my exit interview with Brad Bach, TJ's lawyer sent me a letter threatening me with a lawsuit. My lawyer responded outlining the defects in the frames I received - which I had enumerated to Dimond both after I discovered them and again, in summary, during my exit interview with Brad Bach. We made the following offer:
1) to return all frames to Dimond
2) to refund my Q4 2016 salary
3) to sign a mutual non-disparagement agreement

I was uncomfortable with #3, but I hoped that it could be crafted in such a way that I could speak frankly about my experiences with the frame if I was asked. I do not know if that was a reasonable desire or not. I wanted to be able to be honest. But I also, perhaps naively, still felt that Dimond could fix the issues I described and that they should be allowed to do so.

We never received any sort of reply. The next communication I received from Dimond was when a sheriff showed up at my door to hand me the lawsuit. As I said, my decision to go public was based on the clear perception that to TJ, filing a vindictive lawsuit is more of a priority than fixing the issues with his bikes.

So, no, I did not decide going public was the better option. What I felt was the reasonable option was rejected.


That all sounds reasonable, but the timeline is a bit fuzzy to me. When exactly did you decide that you could no longer represent Diamond, when did you notify them of your desire to terminate the agreement, and when did you have your first discussions with Diamondback? Because at Kona 2016 you were still shilling for Dimond, and 90 days later you're announced as a new Diamondback contract rider. That's a pretty short period of time. Makes one think there might be overlap.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Apr 27, 17 12:17
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
"I mean how has this not gone from breach of contract to slander of the product?"

alleged breach of contract and whatever potential new unlawful act to which you refer.

you can give you opinion. you can write about your own experience. i assume that your statement i've quoted is your opinion. if so, that is fine.

Yes, with apologies, alleged on all counts.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm not going to comment on that anymore than I have already done
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
I keep reading this just shaking my head in astonishment. He's likely going to have to prove this assertion to avoid any liability for potential damage to the Dimond brand.


Rappstar wrote:
chicanery wrote:
dev, this is not correct.

There are two failure modes. One is the seat post slipping, which would be generally non-catastrophic.
The other failure is with the pivot on the beam. The difference between the Dimond design and the original Zipp is that the Zipp had both the pivot, AND an m5 bolt. Normally that bolt is not under much load, unless the pivot were to fail. Then it would be under an enormous load and would probably fail. Steel bolt into a steel cam/pivot system into a threaded steel shaft into aluminum epoxied into the frame.

If the Dimond pivot fails, the beam comes off. You will crash. If the carbon AT the pivot fails, the beam will come off, and you will crash.

Since I was fixing a defect in the seat post area of my beam, I also added 3 layers of UD carbon to the pivot area on each side of my beam. It's not a terrible design, but Jordan is right that the tolerances must be extremely tight, and that Dimond's QC is not good enough in that respect.

Correct. This is my exact assertion. And one that I expressed to Dimond on multiple occasions well in advance in of making my statement here. And I have records of that.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
 
What do they really expect to "win", though? Surely they don't think they can win a settlement (and collect) on $150,000?

Seriously.....what's in this for them? I don't see how they "win" anything.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
 
If I were Jordan, I would also be thinking about, what will a potential juror think of a gofundme account used for the legal defense. that may be admissible.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [nc452010] [ In reply to ]
 
The Scorpion and the Frog

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [travis_lt] [ In reply to ]
 
Yea great stuff.... kept it up

Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
TheTort wrote:
Come on Dan, there is always a winner..... it's called BMW, Mercedes and Land Rover.... that's what the lawyers buy when they take on these cases and laugh all the way to the bank.


there was a big legal fight at USAT, back in 2004. a bunch of board members were suing another bunch of board members. i was not a party to it. my job, when it was all over, was to cram down the legal bills. i thoroughly reveled in it as you might guess (telling attorneys how much of their bills they were really going to get). but that's another story.

i did spectate the entire case, start to finish. i spoke to all the litigants, many times. what i found notable - shocking, really - is that both sides' lawyers reported to their clients that their case was a slam dunk win. how could both sides' attorneys be certain of a slam dunk win?

in the end it was kind of a rollback to the status quo, some hundreds of thousands of dollars and several burnt hides later. who paid? you paid. i paid. everybody who bought an annual or one day license paid.

I had just the opposite experience when I had to hire a lawyer. He told me NO matter how good of a case one thinks they have, if one goes to court,
no way one can know how it ends. Can we say OJ?

He told me his goal was to try and get it settled, out of court, as quickly as possible for the least amount of money and stress on me.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [atgnat] [ In reply to ]
 
atgnat wrote:
The Scorpion and the Frog

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

Sooooo... TJ is the scorpion for bringing the suit, or Jordan is for posting all about it publicly here, or both?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
DFW_Tri wrote:
If I were Jordan, I would also be thinking about, what will a potential juror think of a gofundme account used for the legal defense. that may be admissible.

I imagine you're referring to this post: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6292359#p6292359

I agree, you can probably bank on a juror in Iowa (or anywhere for that matter) falling into the resource-deficient camp and not quite understanding why a Princeton trained engineer who lives in a pretty nice area north of LA is asking for public financial support. It puzzles me - but then, I provided my best analysis of the motive driven value system that could lead to the decision to set up a gofundme campaign.

time heals everything in this hyper-paced digital world... well, time and silence. I'd opt for the latter right now and let the prior just happen and let Dan write his story.

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
DFW_Tri wrote:
If I were Jordan, I would also be thinking about, what will a potential juror think of a gofundme account used for the legal defense. that may be admissible.

and NOW you're not going to comment any more than you have done ;-)

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [atgnat] [ In reply to ]
 
To be honest after reading all of this and the fact that Tj answered all of the concerns on a closed forum or Facebook page makes me wonder what is really going on. I understand Tj does not want to get into a pissing match but this is his brand and his baby his American made company.
Stand up and at least make a statement!!! Even if from the lawyers you are paying.

Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
 
h2ofun wrote:

I had just the opposite experience when I had to hire a lawyer. He told me NO matter how good of a case one thinks they have, if one goes to court,
no way one can know how it ends. Can we say OJ?

He told me his goal was to try and get it settled, out of court, as quickly as possible for the least amount of money and stress on me.

Hopefully there is settlement conference like we have in Canada where they can try to work it out. Try to settle at the 11th hour, that's what I always did :).

It's a SPONSORSHIP contract for crikey sake. If the athlete feels the product is not suitable, that's open for opinion, not engineering "fact". And the meetings, correspondence and exit interview with co. representatives all point to a mutual dissolution. I mean in that "exit" interview the co rep should be raising the roof.

If you are thinking to the future for Dee-mawned (said with a French accent) , how does this play out for new athletes??

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
I meant on that particular topic...come on!! I have plenty more to say about this in general
;)
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Apr 27, 17 12:51
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [atgnat] [ In reply to ]
 
atgnat wrote:
The Scorpion and the Frog

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

lol, nice summation!

The only thing I can think of here is short-sighted panicking by Dimond's financial investors. Unfortunately for them, it will be the end of what could have been a great bike (sad too, because it's a cool design and all of these issues sound like par for the course for any new product that's such a radical departure from the norm).

To Jordan, I hope you can make it out of this terrible situation ok. Good luck!

-Bryan Journey
Travel Blog | Training Blog | Facebook Page
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.

I can understand that you are writing this, but look at it from contract perspective. I bet Jordan was given a contract or at least partial for his contribution on this forum and the way how responds to PM. I just experienced his kindness to react on a zipp / diamondback question two days ago. So when you take this in consideration now knowing what he is going through i even appreciated his effort to answer my question. So even for that effort i will donate some.

But back to your comment, i can relate with you on this to some degree but i bet that the lawsuit from Dimond that would have hit him would be much, much larger if he had posted, while under contract, that he had issue on issue with several frames, seatposts, bad paint jobs and that he informed Dimond about this but they seem to be not capable of create a working modification......but hey, don't let my issues you from buying a Dimond. It is just me having those issues......

Jordan could possibly have chosen to say nothing about Dimond bikes at all here on ST, but that would also probably be explained as a form of not performing under his contract. I like to think he was just caught in a very bad split position, but i find it really hard to believe that someone that is in this situation and still takes the time to answer 2 questions from me that i send to him by private email is a bad character.

Jeroen
Tri-Run

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
 
anybody else running out of popcorn?
I need a cerveza (or three) Negro Modelo please - icy cold with lime. It's 5 o'clock some where :-|

I think I just do a rolling feed of this thread and sit on my trainer and watch. Who needs soap operas, when you've got this thread?

Maybe I'll sprint every other posting as they fly by; kinda like a Tabata workout. (no long boring posts please - for my legs sake)

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [tri-run] [ In reply to ]
 
Jordan's participation on ST is mutually beneficial, I don't see it requires additional compensation beyond that.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
When and how was the first claim/assertion made?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Rappstar wrote:
chicanery wrote:
dev, this is not correct.

There are two failure modes. One is the seat post slipping, which would be generally non-catastrophic.
The other failure is with the pivot on the beam. The difference between the Dimond design and the original Zipp is that the Zipp had both the pivot, AND an m5 bolt. Normally that bolt is not under much load, unless the pivot were to fail. Then it would be under an enormous load and would probably fail. Steel bolt into a steel cam/pivot system into a threaded steel shaft into aluminum epoxied into the frame.

If the Dimond pivot fails, the beam comes off. You will crash. If the carbon AT the pivot fails, the beam will come off, and you will crash.

Since I was fixing a defect in the seat post area of my beam, I also added 3 layers of UD carbon to the pivot area on each side of my beam. It's not a terrible design, but Jordan is right that the tolerances must be extremely tight, and that Dimond's QC is not good enough in that respect.


Correct. This is my exact assertion. And one that I expressed to Dimond on multiple occasions well in advance in of making my statement here. And I have records of that.

The statement in bold there are a lot of if's. Could we not say the same about failure of any frame member on a conventional bike. If my head tube fails or fork fails, I crash. And so on.

The point here, is that it is just conjecture by Chicanery and Jordan that the pivot MIGHT fail. Did you do the destructive testing etc etc to determine that, or was it a random guess based on your engineering intuition. My engineering intuition at visual inspection suggests lots of products MIGHT fail, however, the engineers working at those companies have the design-test-validation-field testing and released products to the public based on much more thorough testing than us consumers. In this thread, Colin Laughery posted TJ's statement that Dimond has not had any field failures.

Where all all these Dimond field failures?

I get it that Jordan is an engineer but to my best knowledge his field of engineering is not designing bikes. Maybe Dimond cut some corners, maybe their testing is not up to others, or maybe their QA is bad or maybe none of that. But in spite of all of that their bikes can be safe for riding even if they creak or they MIGHT look like they could explode.

I like both Jordan and TJ and it is no secret that I have been a fan of what he is doing with his bikes. Early in this thread, I wished the thread would just go away and the gentleman would resolve the dispute offline from lawyers and the internet.

But I see zero proof so far that the bikes are unsafe so I am being the pain in the ass guy asking for the proof. Can they do better on attention to detail and finer craftmanship? Seems like after some growing pains a lot of owners are saying they are.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ck21trhc] [ In reply to ]
 
It's clear that this is a PISSING MATCH, no other reason for the initial post...pull the pin lob the grenade and see what happens. The more this continues...the more both sides come out looking equally bad and guilty. I suspect somebody called someone a name and it turned into the "F&#$ You" game. It's unfortunate, because I think a lot of people will or already have changed their views and opinions of both parties as a result of this incident.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
DFW_Tri wrote:
If I were Jordan, I would also be thinking about, what will a potential juror think of a gofundme account used for the legal defense. that may be admissible.

How would that be relevant? Yes, seeking funds to pay attorney's fees and costs may not be privileged, but how does that make a material fact more or less likely?

Say I get sued for negligence. I can't afford the defense, so I ask my parents for assistance? Is that relevant? How does that get before a jury. Say my parents don't have the funds, so in a desperation, I turn to gofundme. Has is that any different?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [sharkbaitguy] [ In reply to ]
 
This is a great example of how a company should not treat somebody it 'supports', and how that somebody should not treat the company 'supporting'. Its bonkers - you wash your laundry behind closed doors, or the only people that win are the lawyers. I am not donating simply because this should have been sorted behind closed doors, and its currently only hurting the sport we all take part in and love. Sort yourselves out.

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
 
milesthedog wrote:
DFW_Tri wrote:
If I were Jordan, I would also be thinking about, what will a potential juror think of a gofundme account used for the legal defense. that may be admissible.


I imagine you're referring to this post: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6292359#p6292359

I agree, you can probably bank on a juror in Iowa (or anywhere for that matter) falling into the resource-deficient camp and not quite understanding why a Princeton trained engineer who lives in a pretty nice area north of LA is asking for public financial support. It puzzles me - but then, I provided my best analysis of the motive driven value system that could lead to the decision to set up a gofundme campaign.

time heals everything in this hyper-paced digital world... well, time and silence. I'd opt for the latter right now and let the prior just happen and let Dan write his story.

As I asked before, how is requesting assistance to defend against a lawsuit relevant to any material fact of the case? Because if it's not, it doesn't get before your hypothetical biased juror.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [lovegoat] [ In reply to ]
 
Wow. I really thought when I came home from work and checked this post that the thread would be pulled.
I agree that I don't see any good coming from this on either side. I was surprised it was here and even more surprised by the length and content.
I am also surprised by the lack of support for Jordan. He seemed like the golden boy of ST.
I think if Jordan had asked for help with his case but not put all the in-depth stuff about Dimond that maybe it would have had a better response
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
Get on the phone with each other...... and work this out because every day this is going on....you both are losing credibility and buisness......and it will cost both of you financially.

I have deal with dimond and only had great services. The bikes had some issues and saying they are perfect isnt true. I have witness some issue/cracks etc. But i would not say they were unsafe or bad bike. i actually have a very positive outlook at the bike and company.

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
 
Because it's posted on the internet and the post that goes with the request is crawling with discoverable and admissible information. Maybe the judge would make them scrub the funding part of the posting; maybe not. If I gave it some more thought I could probably articulate at least an argument as to why the funds themselves *may be* admissible

Jordan may have discussed the pros and cons of this with his attorney. I don't know.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Apr 27, 17 13:40
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
 
True.

it is sitting before us, though.

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
None of that means it gets before a jury.

It's no more admissible than the fact that Dimond here is, in comparison, can afford its own attorney's fees.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
 
milesthedog wrote:
True.

it is sitting before us, though.

Fortunately, none of us will ever be on that jury, if it ever gets there.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
 
Here we go

http://trstriathlon.com/...jordan-rapps-claims/

Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [earthling] [ In reply to ]
 
earthling wrote:
This is a great example of how a company should not treat somebody it 'supports', and how that somebody should not treat the company 'supporting'. Its bonkers - you wash your laundry behind closed doors, or the only people that win are the lawyers. I am not donating simply because this should have been sorted behind closed doors, and its currently only hurting the sport we all take part in and love. Sort yourselves out.

Agree...DO THE RIGHT THING and CUSTOMER SERVICE "should" be the core values of any business that wants to succeed.

How much money is really involved? How much more will be wasted on legal fees? Both parties should sack up walk away, move on and donate the legal fees to a cause that is worth something rather than the YOU PISSED IN MY CHEERIOS contest they started.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ck21trhc] [ In reply to ]
 
Wasn't that pretty much posted earlier in this thread.

And didn't Jordan claim that he did in fact notify Dimond of his concerns prior to the lawsuit being filed, claiming to have documentary evidence. I believe he mentioned that here. If that's the case, then someone's not being honest.

I understand that people have lost respect for Jordan, primarily on account of his prior endorsement of a product he not claims wasn't satisfactory. He seems to have owned up to that, at least to a point.

I would also assume people have lost respect for Dimond, not based on the merits of its lawsuit, but because it overreached in filing the suit in the first place. Prior to the lawsuit, it had not suffered any damages other than the loss of a sponsored athlete, a few bikes, and some sponsorship fees, most of which Jordan had allegedly offered to return and pay back. Rather than trying to settle the matter, apparently, they chose instead to file a lawsuit, demanding a ridiculous amount in damages. And the lawsuit triggered Jordan's public response regarding the integrity of their product, something that he apparently would not have done but for the lawsuit.

If I were a professional or elite triathlete, I would never sign up with Dimond.

And this is all about shitty beam bikes. Fuck!
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ck21trhc] [ In reply to ]
 

TRS is about 3 hours late. This response was an email sent to all Dimond club members.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6292306#p6292306

blog
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
 
400 posts, and no official thread name yet?

- DimondGate
- TJ and the Beam
- Boy Named Sue
- Rappture

Whatcha got?

--------------------------------------------
TEAM F3 Undurance
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
 
Put on your plaintiff's attorney hat for a moment.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ck21trhc] [ In reply to ]
 
That statement was absolutely NOT written but TJ but instead the legal team. Nevertheless, I'm going to venture to say that Jordan's lawyers will have a field day doing discovery and taking depositions on this gem:

Quote:
No customer who has purchased a production bicycle has advised Dimond of any failure in a bicycle that has resulted in any safety incident.

So many caveats, loopholes, etc. Off the top of my head I can think of 10-15 document requests and I've been out of the litigation game/sport for 10+ years.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Multisportsdad] [ In reply to ]
 
Multisportsdad wrote:
400 posts, and no official thread name yet?

- DimondGate
- TJ and the Beam
- Boy Named Sue
- Rappture

Whatcha got?

They'll have a hard time coming up with something better than finman. If only Rapp had made some reference to a gorilla suit.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Multisportsdad] [ In reply to ]
 
Multisportsdad wrote:
400 posts, and no official thread name yet?

- DimondGate
- TJ and the Beam
- Boy Named Sue
- Rappture

Whatcha got?

Dimond gets a bad Rapp?

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [earthling] [ In reply to ]
 
earthling wrote:
This is a great example of how a company should not treat somebody it 'supports', and how that somebody should not treat the company 'supporting'. Its bonkers - you wash your laundry behind closed doors, or the only people that win are the lawyers. I am not donating simply because this should have been sorted behind closed doors, and its currently only hurting the sport we all take part in and love. Sort yourselves out.
This is a great example of why you shouldn't try to control someone's voice through a contract.

If they brought Rapp as a representative but gave him free reign to promote or criticize the product, it would've lit a fire under their asses to fix any perceived shortcomings. Sure it might've put a damper on the initial enthusiasm for the bike. But if it's not genuine then you eventually get to the implosion we're seeing now.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
DFW_Tri wrote:
Put on your plaintiff's attorney hat for a moment.

Problem is that the vast majority of plaintiff's attorneys are shitty attorneys. YOu might as well ask me to put on my workers' comp atty hat.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
 
AlanShearer wrote:
None of that means it gets before a jury.

It's no more admissible than the fact that Dimond here is, in comparison, can afford its own attorney's fees.

Appears that the attorney who signed statement of claim (?) is a close friend of TJ's ... and a triathlete!

https://mobile.twitter.com/...s/480052073371664384
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Multisportsdad] [ In reply to ]
 
Multisportsdad wrote:
400 posts, and no official thread name yet?

- DimondGate
- TJ and the Beam
- Boy Named Sue
- Rappture

Whatcha got?


"Superforked" - a romantic tale from California to Iowa


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
Last edited by: Thomas Gerlach: Apr 27, 17 14:06
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [logella] [ In reply to ]
 
logella wrote:

So many caveats, loopholes, etc. Off the top of my head I can think of 10-15 document requests and I've been out of the litigation game/sport for 10+ years.


That quote does have a Clintonian vibe to it.

Edit: Referring largely to Bill there.
Last edited by: trail: Apr 27, 17 14:09
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
 
I hope this works out and that TJ and Jordan by settling this tonight man to man no lawyers, then make a join statement and move on. Everything I researched about the two seem like good guys. I feel like that would be the best outcome for everyone.

"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
I am not sure this will help.

Jordan Rapp - December 2016

https://rappstar.com/2016/12/15/134-applications-received-but-three-bikes-to-give-away-update-on-2016-4-cs-of-dimond/
Last edited by: JayPeeWhy: Apr 27, 17 14:15
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
 
JayPeeWhy wrote:



Jordan Rapp - December 2016
https://rappstar.com/2016/12/15/134-applications-received-but-three-bikes-to-give-away-update-on-2016-4-cs-of-dimond/

Sounds like a guy trying to leave gracefully.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman, in response to your article on the front page. Maybe in the future the "chief technologist at Slowtwitch.com " should not give reviews or comments on products that he is paid to promote in this forum due to bias.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
 
gary p wrote:
JayPeeWhy wrote:

Jordan Rapp - December 2016
https://rappstar.com/2016/12/15/134-applications-received-but-three-bikes-to-give-away-update-on-2016-4-cs-of-dimond/


Sounds like a guy trying to leave gracefully.


True. Kind of a credibility issue though when it comes to examining why he bailed. I am not sure I could give away and sell so enthusiastically something I considered to be inherently unsafe. I am not sure that he could either.

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
Last edited by: JayPeeWhy: Apr 27, 17 14:35
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
 
I find it kind of odd that he would give away a bike that he felt was unsafe.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ In reply to ]
 
The sponsorship agreement that was filed as Exhibit A seems odd. In that I don't understand why an athlete would sign an agreement that doesn't outline his rights to termination. Section H describes the conditions under which the sponsor may terminate the contracts and details them. I do not see a section that provides the conditions under which the athlete may do so. For instance, if the sponsor fails to provide "adequate" equipment or monetary compensation as set forth in the above Section 3, athlete must inform sponsor of breach in writing. If the breach is not remedied within "X" days, athlete may terminate the contract. Something along those lines seems like standard language for all contracts.

Finally, and quite oddly, the language in section L is unequivocal. Athlete must enroll in Clean Protocol and must maintain a current status (paraphrasing). Failure to do so makes the contract void. It doesn't say that the contract could be void, it terminates it without remedy. Why didn't Jordan simply withdraw from the Clean Protocol stating that he didn't believe that it's efforts were enough or effective, etc. It is probably a bit simplistic to think this way, but given the vague nature of the contract, I would imagine that this would have saved quite the headache and nullified the need to product warranty claims.

Also, financially speaking...being a nice guy isn't always the best idea when you are in a pay for performance sport. Giving away bikes, wheels, components is awesome...but imprudent when you aren't the top performer and generating an income that will ensure financial stability for many years to come. This is especially true when you decide to have 4 kids (nothing wrong with wanting 4 kids). One might think of it as insurance...you hope you don't have to use it, but are glad when you do. ??

Everyone loses here...wish it wasn't so, but it's probably reality.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [bluestacks867] [ In reply to ]
 
bluestacks867 wrote:
I hope this works out and that TJ and Jordan by settling this tonight man to man no lawyers, then make a join statement and move on. Everything I researched about the two seem like good guys. I feel like that would be the best outcome for everyone.

Is that really an option though at this point. We have one party that is saying the bikes are unsafe. To just come out and settle, would run contrary to everything JR is saying. The way things were laid out I don't see any way to settle this than a long drawn out war.

I guess the only way it could work IME is if Dimond stepped up to the plate and said something like "We do not believe our products are unsafe but in order to focus on the future we have agreed to work with JR on modifying the design of the bike to meet his safety standards."


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
 
Looks like some nice, unsophisticated parties entering into an agreement without having it fully reviewed.. And when things don't work out, getting a little butt hurt and running to an attorney that may not be up to handing the matter.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
I might have been one of the first 20 people to get a Dimond and have loved every second on board. Anytime I have had an issue they have fixed it, which is very few times. I just got a new frame and it is even better than the first. You can't compare the bike to any other and yes of course when you ride it you wonder how does this thing not snap? Engineering and science is pretty incredible when you look at something so fragile and yet it holds up under all the same stress tests by other designs. I know Jordan is a stand up guy and has a lot to be gun shy about when it comes to safety. That being said just because it looks unsafe does not mean that it is. If he truly thinks the bike is unsafe and is afraid of it failing then he as every right to say I don't feel safe. Because he feels unsafe doesn't mean that the bike is.

All I can say is I am 6'7" and weigh around 190-200lbs most of the year and have cracked every frame I have ever owned except the Dimond. It is the fastest most comfortable bike I have owned not to mention the easiest to pack. I will probably never own another bike again.

If It were my company and Jordan was doing this to me I would be pissed as well. If you bight the hand that feeds you expect repercussions. If you don't like your job you move on to someone else but if you have an agreement then have the integrity to honor it. Pretty sure plenty of riders in the tour hate their whips and or gear but they suck it up until they get a new agreement in place. You aren't helping your case here. I am sure many lessons will be learned from both parties from this experience.

All that I can I will.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Multisportsdad] [ In reply to ]
 
Multisportsdad wrote:
400 posts, and no official thread name yet?

- DimondGate
- TJ and the Beam
- Boy Named Sue
- Rappture

Whatcha got?

BLOOD DIMOND

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
 
ZenTriBrett wrote:
Multisportsdad wrote:
400 posts, and no official thread name yet?

- DimondGate
- TJ and the Beam
- Boy Named Sue
- Rappture

Whatcha got?


BLOOD DIMOND

+1

Attacking this day with enthusiasm unknown to mankind.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [dgoularte] [ In reply to ]
 
dgoularte wrote:
I find it kind of odd that he would give away a bike that he felt was unsafe.


Yeah now I'm really glad I didn't win
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
 
I noted the same about Dimond's obligations and a lack of a right to terminate. As I read (skim) it, the only rights the athlete would have for termination are for non payment, which would be the only real material breach. There is no qualifier on the suitability of the bike other than it be "suitable," whatever that means. A requirement of a "safe" bike could certainly be read into it under some kind of implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing (or the Iowa equiv.), but accdg to DImond the first they heard of any safety issue was this post.

Curiousera and curiouser.....
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
bluestacks867 wrote:
I hope this works out and that TJ and Jordan by settling this tonight man to man no lawyers, then make a join statement and move on. Everything I researched about the two seem like good guys. I feel like that would be the best outcome for everyone.


Is that really an option though at this point. We have one party that is saying the bikes are unsafe. To just come out and settle, would run contrary to everything JR is saying. The way things were laid out I don't see any way to settle this than a long drawn out war.

I guess the only way it could work IME is if Dimond stepped up to the plate and said something like "We do not believe our products are unsafe but in order to focus on the future we have agreed to work with JR on modifying the design of the bike to meet his safety standards."

Whatever it takes. They should do it.

"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
 
I have never participated in Clean Protocol. It was a point of contention in the discussions we had about the contract. I do not believe in Clean Protocol. I did not then. And do not now. WADA is not supportive of it. Ironman is not supportive of it. I believed and continued to believe it undermines the intent of WADA. Certainly a lot has happened in the interim to make me more skeptical of WADA. I refused to support it.

After our initial discussions about it, TJ never again mentioned it or asked me to register/participate in it.

I respect and support the idea of supporting clean sport. But i do not believe Clean protocol is the right way to do it.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
 
Conflict Dimond......

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
 
Just an observation here - People chiming in about their Dimond's being great (which I'm sure they are. I love them)... Just because other people's bikes are fine doesn't mean Jordan's was. The clause doesn't read, "Supply bikes to most customers that are suitable..." It says Jordan's bike has to be fit for racing.

It's like a homebuilder. Just because the houses he built down your street are fine, yours could still have foundation cracking and roof leaking because of some issues. The others are not yours and yours are not the others. It helps your case if others have problems, but handmade carbon bikes can have a lot of variability, correct?

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
 
Twotter wrote:
The sponsorship agreement that was filed as Exhibit A seems odd. In that I don't understand why an athlete would sign an agreement that doesn't outline his rights to termination. Section H describes the conditions under which the sponsor may terminate the contracts and details them. I do not see a section that provides the conditions under which the athlete may do so.

Simple supply and demand. Lots of athletes who want sponsored, few sponsorships available, especially at the bike manufacturer level. Sponsors have the upper hand, and can dictate terms more favorable to themselves. Only the most coveted athletes can demand more equitable termination terms. Not sure Jordan met that qualification at the time this agreement was struck.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
 
So how confident are you that an elected state court judge in Iowa would make the correct ruling? My experience in other state courts gives me little confidence
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Apr 27, 17 14:44
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [bluestacks867] [ In reply to ]
 
bluestacks867 wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
bluestacks867 wrote:
I hope this works out and that TJ and Jordan by settling this tonight man to man no lawyers, then make a join statement and move on. Everything I researched about the two seem like good guys. I feel like that would be the best outcome for everyone.


Is that really an option though at this point. We have one party that is saying the bikes are unsafe. To just come out and settle, would run contrary to everything JR is saying. The way things were laid out I don't see any way to settle this than a long drawn out war.

I guess the only way it could work IME is if Dimond stepped up to the plate and said something like "We do not believe our products are unsafe but in order to focus on the future we have agreed to work with JR on modifying the design of the bike to meet his safety standards."

Whatever it takes. They should do it.

I have made an offer very much along these lines to Dimond through numerous third parties - not only asking my lawyer to make such an offer but also other parties in contact with Dimond. I would unquestionably support such a resolution. I hope that this is the approach that we can take.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
Since we're conjecturing...

My analysis of the beam construction happened because I had to sand mine down to fix a manufacturing tolerance issue.
Technically, the beam was not the issue, but rather the tolerance on the seat post was such that when the seat collar pinched the carbon supporting the post, it exerted enough force on the carbon (and without the opposing strenth that would have been provided by a properly sized post) to cause a crack.

I don't know who the original owner of the frame was, or why the beam was not replaced under warranty. What I do know is that I *never* had *any* doubt about the quality and engineering of the rest of the frame. The lower end is a solid piece of manufacturing, and in my view is adequate to the task, and safe for use.

I do not believe the same is true for the beam. I have carefully sanded mine down to the bare carbon. I've had it in my hands for hours and hours and hours. After repairing the original crack at the seat post to my satisfaction, I decided to add additional layers of UD to the pivot area. I did not feel confident in that part of the frame before I added those layers. I do feel confident in it now.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
I guess the only way it could work IME is if Dimond stepped up to the plate and said something like "We do not believe our products are unsafe but in order to focus on the future we have agreed to work with JR on modifying the design of the bike to meet his safety standards."


Jordan can't drink coffee where the beans have been ground to a marginally irregular size. I don't think I would want to build a bike to his spec.

That said, it's a nice idea. Maybe you should intervene.

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
Last edited by: JayPeeWhy: Apr 27, 17 14:45
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
/Finally, and quite oddly, the language in section L is unequivocal. Athlete must enroll in Clean Protocol and must maintain a current status (paraphrasing). Failure to do so makes the contract void. It doesn't say that the contract could be void, it terminates it without remedy. Why didn't Jordan simply withdraw from the Clean Protocol stating that he didn't believe that it's efforts were enough or effective, etc. It is probably a bit simplistic to think this way, but given the vague nature of the contract, I would imagine that this would have saved quite the headache and nullified the need to product warranty claims./

Perhaps you're dealing with a contract that was legally void with your failure to enroll in Clean Protocol. I agree with the consensus a sit down discussion with all parties to resolve the matter privately is the clear approach but never hurts to have a bit of bargaining power. Perhaps JSA or AlanShearer will comment for us curious folks whether or not breach of the above clause will allow a judge to consider the contract null and void and it's over before it starts(?)
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
He's certainly giving them a bad Rapp...

amiright?

Hello? *taps mic* this thing on?

Salton Sea Triathlon Club
“I swim to get to the bike. I run because nobody gives a shit about aquabike.”
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 27, 17 14:49
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Rappstar wrote:
bluestacks867 wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
bluestacks867 wrote:
I hope this works out and that TJ and Jordan by settling this tonight man to man no lawyers, then make a join statement and move on. Everything I researched about the two seem like good guys. I feel like that would be the best outcome for everyone.


Is that really an option though at this point. We have one party that is saying the bikes are unsafe. To just come out and settle, would run contrary to everything JR is saying. The way things were laid out I don't see any way to settle this than a long drawn out war.

I guess the only way it could work IME is if Dimond stepped up to the plate and said something like "We do not believe our products are unsafe but in order to focus on the future we have agreed to work with JR on modifying the design of the bike to meet his safety standards."


Whatever it takes. They should do it.


I have made an offer very much along these lines to Dimond through numerous third parties - not only asking my lawyer to make such an offer but also other parties in contact with Dimond. I would unquestionably support such a resolution. I hope that this is the approach that we can take.

Come on TJ, please work with Jordan on this and everyone move on. You should contact each other directly and start by apologizing to each other, regardless who is at most fault. Then move on to the details and get this resolved quickly. A joint statement at the end and closure outside of lawyers and court will make you both come out of this in the best possible way. It is not too late, the sooner the better.

"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
 
getbarreled wrote:
He's certainly giving them a bad Rapp...


amiright?

Hello?


You're 30 posts late ;)


http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=6292563#p6292563

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Apr 27, 17 14:52
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [chicanery] [ In reply to ]
 
chicanery wrote:
Since we're conjecturing...

My analysis of the beam construction happened because I had to sand mine down to fix a manufacturing tolerance issue.
Technically, the beam was not the issue, but rather the tolerance on the seat post was such that when the seat collar pinched the carbon supporting the post, it exerted enough force on the carbon (and without the opposing strenth that would have been provided by a properly sized post) to cause a crack.

I don't know who the original owner of the frame was, or why the beam was not replaced under warranty. What I do know is that I *never* had *any* doubt about the quality and engineering of the rest of the frame. The lower end is a solid piece of manufacturing, and in my view is adequate to the task, and safe for use.

I do not believe the same is true for the beam. I have carefully sanded mine down to the bare carbon. I've had it in my hands for hours and hours and hours. After repairing the original crack at the seat post to my satisfaction, I decided to add additional layers of UD to the pivot area. I did not feel confident in that part of the frame before I added those layers. I do feel confident in it now.

Again, I agree. This will be my last post until I actually have something else of substance to report. Either resolution or escalation.

This is the proposal that I have made and have asked my lawyer and others to communicate to TJ/Dimond.

This was initially sent in response to a third party who offered to mediate.

//

I think I have a possible solution here for all parties. And it's possible that it can be resolved through mediation.

Here is my proposed solution.

I have, at this point, offered several recommendations as to how this design should be fixed. This is based not only on my own engineering skillset, but also on the skillset of other extremely qualified engineers within the bike industry with whom I have discussed this problem.

I believe that the design can be reasonably effectively fixed after the fact. I.e., I believe that existing frames can be modified in such a way that this problem is mostly - and perhaps entirely - mitigated.

I also believe that future bikes can be produced without the likelihood of failure. I think the fundamental flaws in the design as it exists can be fixed. It will not be easy. Or cheap. But I think it can be done.

I am willing to provide a public record of my proposed solution(s) and to solicit the help of other engineers in the industry to tackle the problems about how to both fix existing bikes and to fix the design itself such that future bikes do not have issues.

In exchange, Dimond agrees to make acknowledgement of these issues and to issue a voluntary recall and to offer to either fashion a satisfactory retrofit or to provide the customer with a new frame based around a corrected design.

From the very first, my goal has always been to help make Dimond make better bikes. That goal remains. If Dimond is willing to seriously engage in that process, I remain willing to support that. But those are my conditions for mediation.

Any mediation must result in a public acknowledgement of the current issues and an effective proposal for how to fix them, both current frames, and future ones.

Best,

Jordan

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [bluestacks867] [ In reply to ]
 
Agreed. They should call each other and have a beer. This is stupid and will just end badly and the only people that will profit is lawyers.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
 
gary p wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
He's certainly giving them a bad Rapp...


amiright?

Hello?


You're 30 posts late ;)


http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=6292563#p6292563

HAHAH DAMMIT!!! I don't have time to read all this shit! Good Lord. I should've guessed though. Cubc Zrkonia is still the best one .

Salton Sea Triathlon Club
“I swim to get to the bike. I run because nobody gives a shit about aquabike.”
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
 
ZenTriBrett wrote:
Just an observation here - People chiming in about their Dimond's being great (which I'm sure they are. I love them)... Just because other people's bikes are fine doesn't mean Jordan's was. The clause doesn't read, "Supply bikes to most customers that are suitable..." It says Jordan's bike has to be fit for racing.

It's like a homebuilder. Just because the houses he built down your street are fine, yours could still have foundation cracking and roof leaking because of some issues. The others are not yours and yours are not the others. It helps your case if others have problems, but handmade carbon bikes can have a lot of variability, correct?

Yeah. But he rode Kona on it. And a lot of other races. Won some. It was "suitable" arguably. The good quality of other bikes is not relevant (although similar defects in other bikes is).
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
 
Ai_1 wrote:
PBT_2009 wrote:
Yes, fair points. Respect. Perhaps this is beating a dead horse, but wouldnt he be contractually obligated to promote the brand and be an ambassador of sorts? To say positive things publicly? Or at least he couldn't insinuate it was an unsafe bike with QC issues?

So he may not have been voluntarily "lying"...he was saying internally "shit if I don't endorse this product they're gunna sue/fire me, and they're working on the problems I've raised with them"? Just a thought. Even if someone asked him what he thought and he said something vague or noncommital, wouldn't that basically be the same as saying this bike is horrible? Dimond wouldn't like that.

I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make.
Are you saying it's not lying if you have a contract that tells you to do it?
Or, are you saying it's lying, but he probably felt bad about it?

Incidentally, I don't think Jordan is claiming either of these. As I read his comments, he claims he was fooling himself into thinking the bikes were okay really and the issues were just temporary. Didn't really think he was lying at the time. I don't find that convincing, but......

C'mon, nobody...?

 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [bluestacks867] [ In reply to ]
 
bluestacks867 wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
bluestacks867 wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
bluestacks867 wrote:
I hope this works out and that TJ and Jordan by settling this tonight man to man no lawyers, then make a join statement and move on. Everything I researched about the two seem like good guys. I feel like that would be the best outcome for everyone.


Is that really an option though at this point. We have one party that is saying the bikes are unsafe. To just come out and settle, would run contrary to everything JR is saying. The way things were laid out I don't see any way to settle this than a long drawn out war.

I guess the only way it could work IME is if Dimond stepped up to the plate and said something like "We do not believe our products are unsafe but in order to focus on the future we have agreed to work with JR on modifying the design of the bike to meet his safety standards."


Whatever it takes. They should do it.


I have made an offer very much along these lines to Dimond through numerous third parties - not only asking my lawyer to make such an offer but also other parties in contact with Dimond. I would unquestionably support such a resolution. I hope that this is the approach that we can take.

Come on TJ, please work with Jordan on this and everyone move on. You should contact each other directly and start by apologizing to each other, regardless who is at most fault. Then move on to the details and get this resolved quickly. A joint statement at the end and closure outside of lawyers and court will make you both come out of this in the best possible way. It is not too late, the sooner the better.

1000% yes!
Though, mimpression of TJ is that he doesn't possess the humility required for this to happen. I could be wrong as I don't know him personally but I feel like the evidence is piling up that he's a "never able to be wrong" type of guy
Not really sure about Jordan in that regard. But if you're dealing with that, it only takes one to tango.

Salton Sea Triathlon Club
“I swim to get to the bike. I run because nobody gives a shit about aquabike.”
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [ In reply to ]
 
has everyone had his say? most slowtwitchers know that i like to let you all opine, but at a certain point i think we drift to a point of diminishing returns. i respect TJ and what he's trying to do with his company (it's what i tried to do with my company, when i was a bike maker). i respect jordan's concerns for his future, his family, and his state of mind. i don't like seeing calumnies hurled at either side.

accordingly, unless there's an opinion left unexpressed, can you express it quickly? and then i think i'll close the thread.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Rappstar wrote:
chicanery wrote:
Since we're conjecturing...

My analysis of the beam construction happened because I had to sand mine down to fix a manufacturing tolerance issue.
Technically, the beam was not the issue, but rather the tolerance on the seat post was such that when the seat collar pinched the carbon supporting the post, it exerted enough force on the carbon (and without the opposing strenth that would have been provided by a properly sized post) to cause a crack.

I don't know who the original owner of the frame was, or why the beam was not replaced under warranty. What I do know is that I *never* had *any* doubt about the quality and engineering of the rest of the frame. The lower end is a solid piece of manufacturing, and in my view is adequate to the task, and safe for use.

I do not believe the same is true for the beam. I have carefully sanded mine down to the bare carbon. I've had it in my hands for hours and hours and hours. After repairing the original crack at the seat post to my satisfaction, I decided to add additional layers of UD to the pivot area. I did not feel confident in that part of the frame before I added those layers. I do feel confident in it now.


Again, I agree. This will be my last post until I actually have something else of substance to report. Either resolution or escalation.

This is the proposal that I have made and have asked my lawyer and others to communicate to TJ/Dimond.

This was initially sent in response to a third party who offered to mediate.

//

I think I have a possible solution here for all parties. And it's possible that it can be resolved through mediation.

Here is my proposed solution.

I have, at this point, offered several recommendations as to how this design should be fixed. This is based not only on my own engineering skillset, but also on the skillset of other extremely qualified engineers within the bike industry with whom I have discussed this problem.

I believe that the design can be reasonably effectively fixed after the fact. I.e., I believe that existing frames can be modified in such a way that this problem is mostly - and perhaps entirely - mitigated.

I also believe that future bikes can be produced without the likelihood of failure. I think the fundamental flaws in the design as it exists can be fixed. It will not be easy. Or cheap. But I think it can be done.

I am willing to provide a public record of my proposed solution(s) and to solicit the help of other engineers in the industry to tackle the problems about how to both fix existing bikes and to fix the design itself such that future bikes do not have issues.

In exchange, Dimond agrees to make acknowledgement of these issues and to issue a voluntary recall and to offer to either fashion a satisfactory retrofit or to provide the customer with a new frame based around a corrected design.

From the very first, my goal has always been to help make Dimond make better bikes. That goal remains. If Dimond is willing to seriously engage in that process, I remain willing to support that. But those are my conditions for mediation.

Any mediation must result in a public acknowledgement of the current issues and an effective proposal for how to fix them, both current frames, and future ones.

Best,

Jordan

You are bold, I'll give you that. You demand they issue a recall that very well my put them out of business, and all you bring to the table is advice. I think you may be overestimating your leverage by a smidge.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
 
gary p wrote:
Multisportsdad wrote:
400 posts, and no official thread name yet?

- DimondGate
- TJ and the Beam
- Boy Named Sue
- Rappture

Whatcha got?


Dimond gets a bad Rapp?
-----------------
=TOP LOL=
--------*--------
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
 
Or now he's a whistle blower... Last one in! :)

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
 
gary p wrote:
Rappstar wrote:


It was never an *actual* option. As I explained in my initial post, after my exit interview with Brad Bach, TJ's lawyer sent me a letter threatening me with a lawsuit. My lawyer responded outlining the defects in the frames I received - which I had enumerated to Dimond both after I discovered them and again, in summary, during my exit interview with Brad Bach. We made the following offer:
1) to return all frames to Dimond
2) to refund my Q4 2016 salary
3) to sign a mutual non-disparagement agreement

I was uncomfortable with #3, but I hoped that it could be crafted in such a way that I could speak frankly about my experiences with the frame if I was asked. I do not know if that was a reasonable desire or not. I wanted to be able to be honest. But I also, perhaps naively, still felt that Dimond could fix the issues I described and that they should be allowed to do so.

We never received any sort of reply. The next communication I received from Dimond was when a sheriff showed up at my door to hand me the lawsuit. As I said, my decision to go public was based on the clear perception that to TJ, filing a vindictive lawsuit is more of a priority than fixing the issues with his bikes.

So, no, I did not decide going public was the better option. What I felt was the reasonable option was rejected.


That all sounds reasonable, but the timeline is a bit fuzzy to me. When exactly did you decide that you could no longer represent Diamond, when did you notify them of your desire to terminate the agreement, and when did you have your first discussions with Diamondback? Because at Kona 2016 you were still shilling for Dimond, and 90 days later you're announced as a new Diamondback contract rider. That's a pretty short period of time. Makes one think there might be overlap.

Crickets on the "when did Diamondback come into the picture?" question?

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
 
gary p wrote:
Consultri wrote:
I agree the case against Jordan looks pretty strong. The contract doesn't give the athlete much recourse in terminating the agreement or arbitrating deficiencies in their obligations. It does clearly state that he would need to petition in Iowa to sever the agreement due to "not providing frames suitable for training and racing" which I'm guessing Jordan did not.

I wonder how Diamondback feels about this? What did Jordan tell them before he signed with them?


Yeah, while I question whether Dimond could prove $150k in damages (at least before this thread and the go fund me page were posted), it doesn't look good for Jordan to me in terms of whether or not he was in breach of contract. The only out he seems to have in the contract rests on the subjective word "suitable." And since he and Dimond seemed to be at odds about whether or not the bikes were suitable, the only path for Jordan to nullify the agreement was through litigation in Iowa. Why he chose to sign with Diamondback without doing that first, I don't know. I can speculate that, with the impending launch of the Andean, there was as window closing to get in on that sponsorship deal so he jumped, hoping Dimond would eventually release him.

I, too, wonder what Diamondback knew. And whether his contract with them is now somehow in jeopardy.

Not unfathomable at all to prove at least $150,000 in damages. If I were Dimonds lawyers, I'd have gone for even more. Lots of people know about Dimond - and have purchased Dimond bikes - based solely because of Rapp's endorsement of the bike . Or alternatively, Dimond may have projected at least $150,000 in extra sales if they were able to sign Rapp as an endorser. Each bike goes for $10,000? So Dimond would only have to show that they lost 15 new purchasers because Rapp allegedly breached his contract and is no longer endorsing their product. That's not that many people nor that many purchases. Wouldn't be hard to show numbers and or otherwise do a natural experiment to show the growth in sales once signed Rapp to an endorsement deal. I do not know the facts at all nor am claiming Rapp was in breach or vice versa; simply saying that at first blush, $150,000 does not seem out of the realm of possibility for a claim and could even be low depending on the facts.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
 
Rappstar wrote:
chicanery wrote:
Since we're conjecturing...

My analysis of the beam construction happened because I had to sand mine down to fix a manufacturing tolerance issue.
Technically, the beam was not the issue, but rather the tolerance on the seat post was such that when the seat collar pinched the carbon supporting the post, it exerted enough force on the carbon (and without the opposing strenth that would have been provided by a properly sized post) to cause a crack.

I don't know who the original owner of the frame was, or why the beam was not replaced under warranty. What I do know is that I *never* had *any* doubt about the quality and engineering of the rest of the frame. The lower end is a solid piece of manufacturing, and in my view is adequate to the task, and safe for use.

I do not believe the same is true for the beam. I have carefully sanded mine down to the bare carbon. I've had it in my hands for hours and hours and hours. After repairing the original crack at the seat post to my satisfaction, I decided to add additional layers of UD to the pivot area. I did not feel confident in that part of the frame before I added those layers. I do feel confident in it now.


Again, I agree. This will be my last post until I actually have something else of substance to report. Either resolution or escalation.

This is the proposal that I have made and have asked my lawyer and others to communicate to TJ/Dimond.

This was initially sent in response to a third party who offered to mediate.

//

I think I have a possible solution here for all parties. And it's possible that it can be resolved through mediation.

Here is my proposed solution.

I have, at this point, offered several recommendations as to how this design should be fixed. This is based not only on my own engineering skillset, but also on the skillset of other extremely qualified engineers within the bike industry with whom I have discussed this problem.

I believe that the design can be reasonably effectively fixed after the fact. I.e., I believe that existing frames can be modified in such a way that this problem is mostly - and perhaps entirely - mitigated.

I also believe that future bikes can be produced without the likelihood of failure. I think the fundamental flaws in the design as it exists can be fixed. It will not be easy. Or cheap. But I think it can be done.

I am willing to provide a public record of my proposed solution(s) and to solicit the help of other engineers in the industry to tackle the problems about how to both fix existing bikes and to fix the design itself such that future bikes do not have issues.

In exchange, Dimond agrees to make acknowledgement of these issues and to issue a voluntary recall and to offer to either fashion a satisfactory retrofit or to provide the customer with a new frame based around a corrected design.

From the very first, my goal has always been to help make Dimond make better bikes. That goal remains. If Dimond is willing to seriously engage in that process, I remain willing to support that. But those are my conditions for mediation.

Any mediation must result in a public acknowledgement of the current issues and an effective proposal for how to fix them, both current frames, and future ones.

Best,

Jordan

TL:DR version - Dimond go fuck yourself. Which was the point of starting this whole thread. Good luck with that.

Twitter
Instagram