Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat
Quote | Reply
Offline I was having some discussions with a few of the guys who have been around sport endurance sport for a long time at a really high level. We have had multiple threads here about KQer key workouts, when and how to schedule rest weeks and so on.

My view based on observing endurance athletes at a high and rec level for a really long time is that this stuff really is not that hard if you want to get moderately fast. Just get out the door. I can't remember if it was Gordo or Fleck who said, JFT = Just F&^*ing Train.

A number of years ago when Eric Reid and I both qualified for Kona, we were sharing a hotel at 70.3 world's and actually we were not sharing our plans or workouts. The discussion was focused on, "how do you structure your life to get ~2 hours of training per day, every day, all week all year" and still get rest and recovery and juggle work and family. Eric was an Army guy who needed to be at work at some crazy early hour like 7 am. I could related from my days as a serviceman. But his plan was to just get up early every day and get 75-90 min of whatever training he could in the morning and then 30-45 min "second workout" at lunch. Mine was more relaxed with a teenager at home and working tech. I could start as late as 9:30, train as long as I wanted at lunch and then just work until I had to, but I kept evenings exlusively for family time or coaching youth sport. Inside our 2 hours per day both of us were modulating training intensities in all sports, sometimes going harder sometimes going easier as life stresses and recovery would permit keeping in mind upcoming A/B/C races. My biggest challenge was 2x per month biz travel (26-32 weeks per year to west coast, Asia and Europe), but I had a routine of every morning regardless of time zone of 5:30 wake up and 90 min of running and weights and evening after work no matter how tired or how big the business dinner was, 45 min of hotel gym bike or hotel 10m pool or hotel weights.....whatever they had....or a second run. No matter how much jet lag, it was going to happen. In bed by 10 pm at the latest no matter how jetlagged and lying in bed 10-5:30 even if wide awake. Weekends to catch up on sleep and biking and pool time when back at home.

I would say the number 1 habit of highly successful endurance athletes is that they somehow magically make the training happen. As I look back at my most successful athletes especially those that KQ'd, 70.3 WCQ'd or Boston PB's, the ones that just got out consistently were race day heros, whether they hit today's power number target, track times, or pool times or not. And the ones who did that while getting enough sleep and keeping or getting body composition low and doing nothing stupid to get injured, they really rocked it. All those zones and splits and micro workout details, were great to keep them motivated.....but the big 50000 ft view is what made them fast.....not having to stop and walk in the middle of a hill because they are lurching out of Zone 1 and now they have to walk because they might totally blow their entire 4 week training block (can someone shoot the coaches that are prescribing that stuff?)

I need Fleck to get over here and explain who him and his buddies were racing 9:0x IMs by just getting out the door and hammering or just getting out the door and going easy....but the main thing is they were just getting out the door....all the time!
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Feb 25, 17 16:32
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well said, Dev. Consistency is king. Day, week, month, year, & years - getting up and out (or in) virtually every day wins out over a few bigger months leading up to a race.

I'm going into my 8th year of doing tris and I finally feel that I'm beginning to reap the benefits of consistent training year round. The bigger sessions leading to key races are important, but the 'off season,' when some folks back of considerably, is when that consistent training needs to be maintained.

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Good macro view post Dev. I'm not sure about the 6% bf though!

_______________________________________________
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Very motivating.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Offline I was having some discussions with a few of the guys who have been around sport endurance sport for a long time at a really high level. We have had multiple threads here about KQer key workouts, when and how to schedule rest weeks and so on.


My view based on observing endurance athletes at a high and rec level for a really long time is that this stuff really is not that hard if you want to get moderately fast. Just get out the door. I can't remember if it was Gordo or Fleck who said, JFT = Just F&^*ing Train.

I need Fleck to get over here and explain who him and his buddies were racing 9:0x IMs by just getting out the door and hammering or just getting out the door and going easy....but the main thing is they were just getting out the door....all the time!


I think a lot of it was cased by HIIT, famous "Time crunched cyclists" etc, magic BS gains in 8 weeks.... same as magic diet that allows you to loose 20kg in 30 days...

Somebody should expose HIIT for what it is, and stop blowing smoke up untrained beginners asses and promise them god know what in 8 weeks.

Books like Time Crunched Cyclists causes more injuries than car accidents, I would even say more bad than good.

There is a lot of people starting in the sport, and books like time crunched cyclists are the most appealing, talking about Cyclocross worlds after 8 weeks of training...

Carmichael should be hang by the balls upside down....



Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This is about as accurate as it gets..I'm ~20, in engineering school..bottom line is that even when the workload is obscene with exams + problem sets + classes in general, I always find time to train for ~1:45-2hr per day. If that means running at 10:30pm after an exam so be it!

Started the 2hr per day program when I was 17, and have committed to being consistent if nothing else!

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I can't take credit for this and won't, but so true non the less. The saying went something like this:
"Triathlon is actually a winter sport that is raced in the summer." The top triathletes do it day in and day out, day after day after day. Most do it with structure, coached or not. Skipping a beautiful spring day ride outside to sit on the trainer in the basement for a purposeful, structured, and meaningful ride is hard to do, but I believe, is what's needed to build the type of performance needed to compete at a high level. Do that type of thing over and over again and "racing" becomes real.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Bonesbrigade wrote:
Good macro view post Dev. I'm not sure about the 6% bf though!

I think I am ballooned out near 8-10% with my 1200 km 2016 swim program....the built in layer of bioprene (TM) has all around positive attributes in the pool as it keeps you warm and makes you faster....not great for running but running was basically a no go in 2016.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [abrown] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
abrown wrote:
This is about as accurate as it gets..I'm ~20, in engineering school..bottom line is that even when the workload is obscene with exams + problem sets + classes in general, I always find time to train for ~1:45-2hr per day. If that means running at 10:30pm after an exam so be it!

Started the 2hr per day program when I was 17, and have committed to being consistent if nothing else!

Keep it up. I did the 2 hour per day program all through my engineering undegrad, biz school and engineering Masters degree. It can be done (that was between 1983-1994 time frame around school and nite school....it can be done if you are focused). I would actually read up on my formula sheets and memorize them during 45 min runs at nite....then shower and sleep and when I would wake up in the morning, they were locked into my brain
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nice post. I think this really is key to success in just about anything. The thread about key workouts to KQ I think should really be summed up in "stay consistent for years without injury and with a little plan and you will find success". There are some "key" workouts during a build/peak phase but the more important thing is to be consistent and find a way to get something done every day, day in day out, no matter the weather or other factors (assuming you are not neglecting anything else in life).

My Blog - Twitter - Instagram
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [jrielley] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jrielley wrote:
Nice post. I think this really is key to success in just about anything. The thread about key workouts to KQ I think should really be summed up in "stay consistent for years without injury and with a little plan and you will find success". There are some "key" workouts during a build/peak phase but the more important thing is to be consistent and find a way to get something done every day, day in day out, no matter the weather or other factors (assuming you are not neglecting anything else in life).

At a high level, I would target 2 key workouts a week. Wed AM was a 90K ride starting at 5:15 am with the middle 45K being a group hammerfest in the local hills. It really lifted my threshold. This workout (when I was in town was non negotiable). The other key workout was a Saturday or Sunday 3.5-4 hour ride. Basically half IM race effort in the TT followed by a hard 30 min transition run. All my running was just filler. If I felt I could go harder or longer i just would, but I was more worried about overall hours of running per week not intensity. Target 5-7 hours. I never paid much attention to swimming and it showed and I generally underperformed at it. When I get back to tris, I will be flipping my previous focus on running to swimming the outcome of which will be far higher aggregate intensity because you can in the pool but you can't on the run.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
abrown wrote:
This is about as accurate as it gets..I'm ~20, in engineering school..bottom line is that even when the workload is obscene with exams + problem sets + classes in general, I always find time to train for ~1:45-2hr per day. If that means running at 10:30pm after an exam so be it!

Started the 2hr per day program when I was 17, and have committed to being consistent if nothing else!


Keep it up. I did the 2 hour per day program all through my engineering undegrad, biz school and engineering Masters degree. It can be done (that was between 1983-1994 time frame around school and nite school....it can be done if you are focused). I would actually read up on my formula sheets and memorize them during 45 min runs at nite....then shower and sleep and when I would wake up in the morning, they were locked into my brain

Been there! In today's digital age I spend a lot of time on the bike and while running with audiobooks of my textbooks and recordings of lectures playing in my headphones. Every bit helps!

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sebo2000 wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Offline I was having some discussions with a few of the guys who have been around sport endurance sport for a long time at a really high level. We have had multiple threads here about KQer key workouts, when and how to schedule rest weeks and so on.


My view based on observing endurance athletes at a high and rec level for a really long time is that this stuff really is not that hard if you want to get moderately fast. Just get out the door. I can't remember if it was Gordo or Fleck who said, JFT = Just F&^*ing Train.

I need Fleck to get over here and explain who him and his buddies were racing 9:0x IMs by just getting out the door and hammering or just getting out the door and going easy....but the main thing is they were just getting out the door....all the time!


I think a lot of it was cased by HIIT, famous "Time crunched cyclists" etc, magic BS gains in 8 weeks.... same as magic diet that allows you to loose 20kg in 30 days...

Somebody should expose HIIT for what it is, and stop blowing smoke up untrained beginners asses and promise them god know what in 8 weeks.

Books like Time Crunched Cyclists causes more injuries than car accidents, I would even say more bad than good.

There is a lot of people starting in the sport, and books like time crunched cyclists are the most appealing, talking about Cyclocross worlds after 8 weeks of training...

Carmichael should be hang by the balls upside down....




That's like when Boardman said he was training 8 hours per week to break his first 54 kph World Hour Record. Basically all of it was a 98-110% FTP on the track....the detail that is left out is he spent the entire spring and summer road racing in Europe include the TdF, so that 8 hrs per week is a bit out of context.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I live by this motto.

Skipped the 6 mile beer run on Wednesday to get a structured 100 min run on the treadmill in my basement by myself.

Thanks for the quote.
Last edited by: TriathlonJoe: Feb 24, 17 7:40
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
years ago i was training with a group of really solid runners at the university of cape town. i was telling them that i was focusing more on shorter-course stuff at the moment, since i was 'a bit young' for the marathon, and that i'd probably be in a better place to run fast marathons into my 30s/40s.

the coach said, flat out, "no. you'll run your best marathon when you have the most time to train, period."

and it's true that i've been at my fastest when i've also been at my most consistent, even 'forcing' hidden workouts through things like commuting by bike.

but alas . . .

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This is SO DEAD ON - I'm 35 year into triathlon (51 yo) - and it all comes down to........

Relentless consistency
Relentless sleep
Relentless watching weight

Added to this.....

ability to schedule and follow
ability to make good choices/sacrafices
not going to hard, to fast, to soon
loose the gadgets a lot of the time
find friends
and make it a true lifestyle

It not that hard people - 2-3 hours out of my day is easy to find even with 3 kids, a fairly big job and some other committments - its only difficult to do if YOU make it so


http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sebo2000 wrote:
I think a lot of it was cased by HIIT, famous "Time crunched cyclists" etc, magic BS gains in 8 weeks.... same as magic diet that allows you to loose 20kg in 30 days...
So you are saying I will improve my 40K TT time just by riding 1-2 hours a day at L1/L2 without doing any type of HIIT, such as threshold or VO2 max intervals?
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Great post! Do something every day, enjoy the lifestyle.

As I get older and come across the occasional setback, I just try to adjust as needed and keep plugging away. I was reading some Jack LaLane quotes the other day and one thing that repeatedly came up in the stuff I read about him was that he did 2 hours per day every morning till he died at 96 years old. He was incredibly fit and had a high quality of life the whole way. Very inspirational!
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [abrown] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm also an engineering student, and I have time to do my training time, but the sleep thing is hard for me. Do you manage to get 8 hours a night?
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RichardL wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

I think a lot of it was cased by HIIT, famous "Time crunched cyclists" etc, magic BS gains in 8 weeks.... same as magic diet that allows you to loose 20kg in 30 days...

So you are saying I will improve my 40K TT time just by riding 1-2 hours a day at L1/L2 without doing any type of HIIT, such as threshold or VO2 max intervals?

I don't think anyone was saying to not do high intensity. I think the discussion was high intensity and low volume only. Some high intensity is obviously needed coupled with reasonable volume, but to your point, yes you can actually raise your FTP by doing nothing but RAAM type pace at RAAM type volume. But that's a boatload of low volume to get to to more or less the same place as moderate volume with some intensity.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
imswimmer328 wrote:
I'm also an engineering student, and I have time to do my training time, but the sleep thing is hard for me. Do you manage to get 8 hours a night?

I get ~7hrs/night. Below 7 and I notice negative impacts on my ability to focus in school and put out good workouts. I usually sleep ~11:30-6:30. Some days it's 11-7, others its 12-6, and if I am behind one night I try to make a point of catching up! I can get by on 5-6 for about a week, but then I use the weekend to catch up on sleep. I try to get at least 8hrs on weekend nights.

Never underestimate the power of the 20min nap!

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [abrown] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
abrown wrote:
imswimmer328 wrote:
I'm also an engineering student, and I have time to do my training time, but the sleep thing is hard for me. Do you manage to get 8 hours a night?


I get ~7hrs/night. Below 7 and I notice negative impacts on my ability to focus in school and put out good workouts. I usually sleep ~11:30-6:30. Some days it's 11-7, others its 12-6, and if I am behind one night I try to make a point of catching up! I can get by on 5-6 for about a week, but then I use the weekend to catch up on sleep. I try to get at least 8hrs on weekend nights.

Never underestimate the power of the 20min nap!

Keep up the 56 hours per week sleep target especially in Engineering school. Only stupid or totally disorganized guys sacrifice sleep before an exam or go to class sleep deprived and do stupid things like all nighter. There is no point going to class sleep deprived. I'd rather skip a class to take a 45 min snooze and work with a buddy to get the key notes and reciprocate with him for another class so that he can skip and do something else. Whatever it takes. Work out a system so you get your sleep in. Your awake time becomes 2-5X more valuable. As an athlete you get to see the canary in the coalmine in terms of how low sleep affects your workouts, but it's also affecting your ability to do triple integrals with trig functions or Bessel functions. You can't cheat sleep without cheating yourself....it's actually why I put it in the title of this thread....for the athletes that I coach, they have to submit their weekly totals. Now I get it that not all sleep is the same, but just give me the total when you are lying down and resting in bed....and hit 56.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Reddy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Reddy wrote:
This is SO DEAD ON - I'm 35 year into triathlon (51 yo) - and it all comes down to........

Relentless consistency
Relentless sleep
Relentless watching weight

Added to this.....

ability to schedule and follow
ability to make good choices/sacrafices
not going to hard, to fast, to soon
loose the gadgets a lot of the time
find friends
and make it a true lifestyle

It not that hard people - 2-3 hours out of my day is easy to find even with 3 kids, a fairly big job and some other committments - its only difficult to do if YOU make it so

Hey, I just looked at my training for today. So far 36 minute jog and 55 minute swim. I'm going to need to do something after dinner to hit my 2 hour quota or I will need to put all my gear on ebay for digressing from the OP advice on this thread. Sounds like 15 min spin bike and 15 min of weights is needed before bed time!
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's simply not true that 56 hours is the magic number for everyone - or even close to it. Everyone is different. Some need more, some need less and some deprive themselves and get less.

I'd venture to say that as far back as I can remember (46 years now) my weekly sleep totals have been between 40-45 hours per week. You know me and I think you'd agree that I've done pretty well for myself considering how low my number is.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Reddy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Reddy wrote:
This is SO DEAD ON - I'm 35 year into triathlon (51 yo) - and it all comes down to........

Relentless consistency
Relentless sleep
Relentless watching weight

Added to this.....

ability to schedule and follow
ability to make good choices/sacrafices
not going to hard, to fast, to soon
loose the gadgets a lot of the time
find friends
and make it a true lifestyle

It not that hard people - 2-3 hours out of my day is easy to find even with 3 kids, a fairly big job and some other committments - its only difficult to do if YOU make it so

^^^^
This X's 1000

And I would add having a truly supportive significant other into the equation.

Chronic guilt is not compatible with long term success.


"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [cbump] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cbump wrote:
Very motivating.

Been doing a trainer road plan and there wasn't a scheduled workout today.
This thread got me to the local mountain bike trail for a 8 mile ride and a 4 mile trail run.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Gordo's training group coined JFT. I've got a JFT jersey and socks. :)
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Mark Lemmon wrote:
Gordo's training group coined JFT. I've got a JFT jersey and socks. :)

Maybe they stole it from Fleck...Fleck is kind of a freeware/open source type of guy. He doesn't bother taking credit for any concepts, but was doing this long before Gordo!
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dev, I'm at the point where following training plans has actually made me worse.

I was at my best when I wasn't following any training plan but running and cycling just about everyday, and most of that was at a snail's pace. I PR'd swim, bike, and run during that 12-18 months I was training like that.

Now I have admittedly not been super focused on training the last couple of years but those 3x or even 4x S/B/R training plans just don't work for me. Been trying to do that the last year and it's not working for me. I like the JFT mentality.

So I'm going back to doing a one hour bike + one hour run brick (to save time) 4-5x per week plus a 90 minute Saturday run and 2:30-3:00 Sunday ride. Swim at lunch when I get a chance. Wake up at 5am, eat some breakfast, take a dump, hop on trainer, go run, shower, go to work. Rinse and repeat each day.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | TriRig | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
stringcheese wrote:

And I would add having a truly supportive significant other into the equation.

Chronic guilt is not compatible with long term success.

So true! The entire tenor and value of a session changes for me when I know I've got other things I could be doing but on my way out the door my wife makes it clear that she understands how important it is to me and supports me. The indolent Catholic guilt melts away and all that's left is joy and performance.

Great thread!
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RichardL wrote:
So you are saying I will improve my 40K TT time just by riding 1-2 hours a day at L1/L2 without doing any type of HIIT, such as threshold or VO2 max intervals?


N=1, three or fours years ago, I wanted to try something different. In the past, I had pretty much trained lots of Sweet Spot or 20m Ftp intervals consistently year around. That spring I decided to train in high z2 (around my believed AeT) for two hour every day for three months, every single ride was at this intensity and never varied outside this zone. Results= Upside- I had second best 20m FTP ever only missing the best by a few watts. Downside- I was really crap at any effort above threshold. I have one of the highest W/Kg in my category but was get dropped early every race. It took three / four months of anaerobic work to get it back to normal but I was a monster after that.

BoulderCyclingCoach.com
Last edited by: rockdude: Feb 25, 17 8:35
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [rockdude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rockdude wrote:
N=1, three or fours years ago, I wanted to try something different. In the past, I had pretty much trained lots of Sweet Spot or 20m Ftp intervals consistently year around. That spring I decided to train in high z2 (around my believed AeT) for two hour every day for three months, every single ride was at this intensity and never varied outside this zone. Results= Upside- I had second best 20m FTP ever only missing the best by a few watts. Downside- I was really crap at any effort above threshold. I have one of the highest W/Kg in my category but was get dropped early every race. It took three / four months of anaerobic work to get it back to normal but I was a monster after that.

My coach has me doing something very similar. I was able to fake my way up to consistent Cat 3 top tens with good sprint genetics. I ended up inheriting my coach's coach this off-season and his first comment was that I had no motor. Everything was based off of fast twitch muscles. He's had me do an enormous amount of zone two and just like you guys I'm working full-time and doing these on the weekends and at night. I do feel like my snap is gone, but I also feel like my engine and on bike efficiency has improved immensely.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The GMAN wrote:
Dev, I'm at the point where following training plans has actually made me worse.

I was at my best when I wasn't following any training plan but running and cycling just about everyday, and most of that was at a snail's pace. I PR'd swim, bike, and run during that 12-18 months I was training like that.

Now I have admittedly not been super focused on training the last couple of years but those 3x or even 4x S/B/R training plans just don't work for me. Been trying to do that the last year and it's not working for me. I like the JFT mentality.

So I'm going back to doing a one hour bike + one hour run brick (to save time) 4-5x per week plus a 90 minute Saturday run and 2:30-3:00 Sunday ride. Swim at lunch when I get a chance. Wake up at 5am, eat some breakfast, take a dump, hop on trainer, go run, shower, go to work. Rinse and repeat each day.

I bet within your JFT approach you are modulating your intensities to handle "high enough loads" on the days that your life stresses permit and on other days, your intensities just get inherently jacked back down by feel. You are advanced enough an athlete at this point that when you raced without seeing your powermeter your NP for a 70.3 was within watts of seeing the numbers and following the numbers. You're probably doing a bit of the same during you JFT sessions hitting numbers within 1 percent of what you'd have achieved if the plan was presecribed in detail on a spreadsheet.

What people forget is that the human body is this organic thing but its performance is pretty darn deterministic on the days it wants to perform. I can predict my 100m swim splits or 400m track splits to the second or my 90 second bike intervals to the watt and then close my eyes and go on feel and see the number at the end being exactly the predicted one. But for my athletes, I could do the same thing also once I get to know them "enough". This stuff is not really rocket science. But you can't beat setting up your personal framework/infrastructure such that it is repeatable and you are motivated to do more training consistently adding in as much training load as the body and mind can take.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
I would say the number 1 habit of highly successful endurance athletes is that they somehow magically.

What is the rest of this sentence? Or are you saying that they are just magic?
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
johnnybefit wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:

I would say the number 1 habit of highly successful endurance athletes is that they somehow magically.


What is the rest of this sentence? Or are you saying that they are just magic?

Sorry, the rest must have gotten cut out by mistake.....they magically make the training happen when other guys cave or come up with excuses.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:

Sorry, the rest must have gotten cut out by mistake.....they magically make the training happen when other guys cave or come up with excuses.

Agree but I think it could be "They INTENTIONALLY make the training happen". No real magic - they just do it!
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
johnnybefit wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


Sorry, the rest must have gotten cut out by mistake.....they magically make the training happen when other guys cave or come up with excuses.


Agree but I think it could be "They INTENTIONALLY make the training happen". No real magic - they just do it!

Yes, it's not magic, just like you don't make money through magic. Making time for anything or making money take a ton of effort. From the outside it seems like magic but the person pulling it off, for that person its no cakewalk. Just a ton of organization and persistence and support from those around.

It comes back to the "find time" vs "make time" that exists in the vocabulary of people that can't make a priority happen. They say, "I could not FIND time for XYZ"....it's exactly like the person who says, "I was walking down the sidewalk and did not FIND any dollars on the street to pay for today's dinner"....well of course you're not going to FIND time or FIND money. It just does not happen. Its all about MAKING it happen.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sebo2000 wrote:
I think a lot of it was cased by HIIT, famous "Time crunched cyclists" etc, magic BS gains in 8 weeks.... same as magic diet that allows you to loose 20kg in 30 days...

Somebody should expose HIIT for what it is, and stop blowing smoke up untrained beginners asses and promise them god know what in 8 weeks.

Books like Time Crunched Cyclists causes more injuries than car accidents, I would even say more bad than good.

There is a lot of people starting in the sport, and books like time crunched cyclists are the most appealing, talking about Cyclocross worlds after 8 weeks of training...

Carmichael should be hang by the balls upside down....

Well that's quite the rant... but every time crunched plan I've ever looked at, including Carmichael's, included the caveat that the plan was not optimal for reaching your maximum potential, but rather designed to get the best bang for the buck out of low to moderate volume, not because that is the better approach but because for many people it is the only practical approach.

You know, shocking as it may be to some in the ST world, many people have families, jobs that require long hours, etc. and can't make training the primary focus of their nonworking hours.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tttiltheend wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

I think a lot of it was cased by HIIT, famous "Time crunched cyclists" etc, magic BS gains in 8 weeks.... same as magic diet that allows you to loose 20kg in 30 days...

Somebody should expose HIIT for what it is, and stop blowing smoke up untrained beginners asses and promise them god know what in 8 weeks.

Books like Time Crunched Cyclists causes more injuries than car accidents, I would even say more bad than good.

There is a lot of people starting in the sport, and books like time crunched cyclists are the most appealing, talking about Cyclocross worlds after 8 weeks of training...

Carmichael should be hang by the balls upside down....


Well that's quite the rant... but every time crunched plan I've ever looked at, including Carmichael's, included the caveat that the plan was not optimal for reaching your maximum potential, but rather designed to get the best bang for the buck out of low to moderate volume, not because that is the better approach but because for many people it is the only practical approach.

You know, shocking as it may be to some in the ST world, many people have families, jobs that require long hours, etc. and can't make training the primary focus of their nonworking hours.

Well there is always the option to change jobs and open up more time for other things if the long working hours are getting in the way. It's really a question of what someone wants out of life. There are only a few jobs in this world that you can't switch out of. The rest, you can if you want to. It may involve making less money, or the work might be less interesting or glamorous, but there are other options that allow people more time with family and for fitness. Most of these things are a personal choice. Less job, less fancy car/s, less fancy everything, more time for family or training. These are all personal priority management choices at different phases in life.

But hey, if the long work hours make one happy (and I know that in general my work life has made me quite happy as I get paid to do my other hobby which is tech), then it is totally fine if one wants to short change training. It's fine. But if someone is miserable because of their long work hours and they can't enjoy exercise which they want to do and want to work less, it sounds like they are prisoners in their own self created jail cell.

This may or may not be you. I've gone through that myself at times and just made sure I inserted by 2 hours of training somehow, work be damned....or I changed jobs. There is still 8-12 hours per day (depending on the company and the mission) for work. Honestly if I can't produce in 6 hours what other guys doing the presenteeism routine are doing in 10 hours then I'm just being inefficient (because by and large most people are work are inherently inefficient). On the other hand, I am in an output measured industry, so it's easier for me to say. If one is in a service oriented or manufacturing oriented company where every unit of input time equates to an output then you can't get away with my mindset.


And I should add, just winging 2 hours of training per day WILL NOT GET ONE to their max potential, just like Carmichael won't on HITS. There are much better ways to get to max potential. In general terms though, 2 hours per day and getting to low body fat and lots of rest through sleep will get most guys and girls really far towards the max potential. Then you have the last 5%, but the last 5 percent over a 10 hour Ironman is the diff between the 10 hour guy and the 9:30 guy. 5% does not sound like a lot but it's a completely different world. For that, you really do have to apply proper science. JFT 2 hrs per day will go only so far.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tttiltheend wrote:
not because that is the better approach but because for many people it is the only practical approach.


I'm going to completely disagree. Having been on that side that felt it was the only "practical approach," I was fooling myself because I didn't want to take the plunge and put in the mental effort required to do 14-16hrs a week. I rationalized that I could get by with 5-9hrs a week. That HIIT was just as good if not even scientifically better. But the truth of the matter was and is that there is no substitute for hard work. But that's just it, it's "hard" work and we all know the mind breaks long before the body. This is especially true after you spend 8-9hrs at the office.

Here's the crux: People basically want to come home from work and have the training equivalent of a microwave dinner. Push a few buttons on the smart trainer and off you go...

So personally, I would reword your sentence "not because that is the better approach but because for many people it is the mental easier approach."
Last edited by: cabdoctor: Feb 25, 17 19:01
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No I think you are missing the point there. I don't think there is any doubt that 5-9 hours per week is (obviously depending on workouts) easier than 14-16. For some people, doing 5-9 may be the excuse. But For some people, 14-16 is simply not practical because of other things in their life--whether those things come by choice or are dictated for them. They too still have a place in this sport and, thus, so too do training plans made for those athletes to maximize the benefit of their training time on more limited hours. Those are not the athletes Dev is speaking to...back on topic.

Great thread...consistency rules!
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Here's the crux: People basically want to come home from work and have the training equivalent of a microwave dinner. Push a few buttons on the smart trainer and off you go..


This is so true. I have a handful of guys in my small-ish training group that just expect the work to be doable/easy since it was given to them by their coach and that they should be able to get through it. They end up taking complete stopping rests on hard interval sessions because they aren't mentally prepared for the work or willing to suffer for it.

I get up at 4, coffee and poop, then S/B/R mentally ready to work hard, then enjoy the rest of my day at work knowing I hit, or at least tried to hit, my targets of my personal goal for the day.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DFW_Tri wrote:
No I think you are missing the point there. I don't think there is any doubt that 5-9 hours per week is (obviously depending on workouts) easier than 14-16. For some people, doing 5-9 may be the excuse. But For some people, 14-16 is simply not practical because of other things in their life--whether those things come by choice or are dictated for them. They too still have a place in this sport and, thus, so too do training plans made for those athletes to maximize the benefit of their training time on more limited hours. Those are not the athletes Dev is speaking to...back on topic.

Great thread...consistency rules!

Hey, just to be clear, I don't think that for the 5 hour per week guy, opening up 14 hours is likely. This person perhaps has other life priorities and that's fine. I do think for the 9-10 hour week person, 14 hours is totally in reach with some semblance of organization. Most people are just disorganized in terms of how they give their time away to others for low priority, useless and unproductive things. There is a ton of low hanging fruit in people's lives that can be harvested out of their lives to create a clear path for high priority endeavors. If training is one of them, then bonus.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I agree with much of this. Consistency is critical, but so is purpose. I know plenty of guys that do 15-20hrs a week of either z2 or anaerobic all out. They never get faster.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I wasn't responding to your post but rather to the poster who assumes that those who choose to train less are mentally weak.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Feb 26, 17 7:07
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cabdoctor wrote:
tttiltheend wrote:
not because that is the better approach but because for many people it is the only practical approach.


So personally, I would reword your sentence "not because that is the better approach but because for many people it is the mental easier approach."

So have you ever had children? I spent many years where I could only get a few hours of exercise a week. My family came first, my job second. Not to mention house renovations that I did myself, doing my own landscaping, etc. etc. There's lots of advice given in threads like these to change jobs but it's the exception rather than the rule that one can move to a job with less hours and not give up some professional advancement potential, job satisfaction, and compensation. Do I wish I could have exercised more, and competed? Sure! Do I regret my choices? Nope, not for one second.

Now I have flexibility to train a lot in the manner that Dev recommends, compete in triathlons, etc. and it's very nice to indulge myself this way and reach the higher levels of fitness that it enables. But it doesn't make me morally superior or smarter in any way shape or form than my younger, hardworking self.

It's also ironic to me that a time crunched approach is viewed as less mentally challenging. High intensity work to me is much mentally harder than the L2 base work that gets added with additional volume.

I don't doubt that some people use time-crunched programs as a mental excuse but for many people it's a matter of making responsible choices with their life.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Miagi say, "find your balance"

Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DFW_Tri wrote:
I wasn't responding to your post but rather to the poster who assumes that those who choose to train less are mentally weak.

I think in some EXTREME situations yes only 5-9 hrs is available. But I have to agree with the other posters that for the vast vast majority that say it isn't possible, it's because of mismanagement of time and a generally unwillingness to put in the effort to try and find that time.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Or, by choice. Again, you are assuming that athlete X wants to dedicate every free minute of their week to triathlon. if so, there is surely more than 9 hours there. But work, family, other stuff going on in life may take precedence and soak up that other time.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tttiltheend wrote:
My family came first, my job second. Not to mention house renovations that I did myself, doing my own landscaping, etc. etc.


tttiltheend wrote:
it's the exception rather than the rule that one can move to a job with less hours and not give up some professional advancement potential, job satisfaction, and compensation.

I think you hit the nail on the head with both of these comments. To make this work you do have to sacrifice..a lot. It maybe it's yourjob, it may mean hiring someone to do your yard or home renovations, or maybe choosing to live some place with very little upkeep. I think the point that most of us are making is that to be successful, and I hate to use that phrase because I think any happy athlete is successful and so i consider you a successful athlete, but to be a winning athlete it takes a lot of premeditated sacrifice. And that's true at any level no matter how many or few hours you put in.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cabdoctor wrote:
tttiltheend wrote:
My family came first, my job second. Not to mention house renovations that I did myself, doing my own landscaping, etc. etc.



tttiltheend wrote:
it's the exception rather than the rule that one can move to a job with less hours and not give up some professional advancement potential, job satisfaction, and compensation.


I think you hit the nail on the head with both of these comments. To make this work you do have to sacrifice..a lot. It maybe it's yourjob, it may mean hiring someone to do your yard or home renovations, or maybe choosing to live some place with very little upkeep. I think the point that most of us are making is that to be successful, and I hate to use that phrase because I think any happy athlete is successful and so i consider you a successful athlete, but to be a winning athlete it takes a lot of premeditated sacrifice. And that's true at any level no matter how many or few hours you put in.

Add to this tangent, my 2 cents is its nearly impossible to excute on professional advancement in any moderately demanding field and get close to your potential in tri at the same time....forget about layering families on top. So really it's a matter of picking which is higher priority. Me personally, I never picked professional advancement (better job or killing myself at the current one) to advance in status at the expense of being able to do sport. For me, that tradeoff has never been worth it. It would not make me happy.

My family has been on my side if/when I wanted to do more work or more sport (or during the times when I did both simultaneously.....family got financially ahead and they knew that I wasn't dropping tri, but I was not around much for home)....So in a way I took care of family by getting financially ahead at least that is my bogus justification to myself. But the pace doing all that is fairly suicidal. Basically you're either working or training. It's not for most people. You kind of have to be wired that way to get off on doing both at full throttle. But I only did that stuff when my son was finishing off high school or starting university. No way I would do that when my family needed more of my time, so I de prioritized work advancement (but I still felt I got a ton done and we were financially OK), did the family stuff and did sport.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
One of the problems I find is that getting in the training itself can become a 'stressor'. I sometimes feel guilty for taking a 2 hour lunch break to get a 3km swim in, because I didn't get up early enough that morning to get to swimming. Then you have the rushing home and around after work just to make sure you get the training in. Then some other things comes up on an evening and you feel guilty for not training.

Constantly rushing around (one of the things some people on here might refer to as "good time management") trying to fit the training in around other life commitments can be stressful in itself.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 I'm going to go against popular opinion and disagree. Finding a way to get out and train every day, 45-50 weeks a year is certainly one of the foundations to success, but IME it isn't usually enough. The next step is to establish goals, weaknesses and limits (IE injury concerns) and design a training plan based on sound physiological principals. Far too often I've seen athletes who prioritize volume and frequency above all else get stuck putting in a big time commitment with limited results.

So yeah, what you're saying about training every day, every week, is important and a foundational message for slowtwitch but to assume it stops there would be a mistake.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [fulla] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes that sounds like me, when my friends asked how I fit everything in, then follow up by saying you must be very organised with your time.

My answer is always no more organised than the next person, my life is like 'organised chaos'. Where I plan for things, and I'm lucky if I can hit the plan 50% of the time. The rest is rushing around and trying to make things fit as bet I can, be it family events, work meetings/tasks or training sessions. I follow a simple hierarchy, family first, work second, tri third. Of course I sacrifice some work and family stuff for tri, but if the family stuff is important that takes priority, no matter if it's a key workout, or work meeting etc or not
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Karl.n wrote:
I'm going to go against popular opinion and disagree. Finding a way to get out and train every day, 45-50 weeks a year is certainly one of the foundations to success, but IME it isn't usually enough. The next step is to establish goals, weaknesses and limits (IE injury concerns) and design a training plan based on sound physiological principals. Far too often I've seen athletes who prioritize volume and frequency above all else get stuck putting in a big time commitment with limited results.

So yeah, what you're saying about training every day, every week, is important and a foundational message for slowtwitch but to assume it stops there would be a mistake.

I definitely agree that its only a starting point, that gets you to within shooting range of your full potential, but you need to get a lot more specific to maximize. This thread was not about what you need to do to maximize performance. That's another layer on top of this. I believe that's been addressed a few times in this thread already.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Reddy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Reddy wrote:

It not that hard people - 2-3 hours out of my day is easy to find even with 3 kids, a fairly big job and some other committments - its only difficult to do if YOU make it so

Really? For me, I only work 7 hours a day and work 15min from home, so piece of cake, even with kids, but people out there with long days, big commutes, kids, wives that work, not sure how they can do that long term without something getting neglected, whether that's children, wife, sleep, sanity or whatever.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [fulla] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
fulla wrote:
One of the problems I find is that getting in the training itself can become a 'stressor'. I sometimes feel guilty for taking a 2 hour lunch break to get a 3km swim in, because I didn't get up early enough that morning to get to swimming. Then you have the rushing home and around after work just to make sure you get the training in. Then some other things comes up on an evening and you feel guilty for not training.

Constantly rushing around (one of the things some people on here might refer to as "good time management") trying to fit the training in around other life commitments can be stressful in itself.

I had that issue too. For me, I had to realize that there is nothing in this world that will make me get up early. So I sleep in till the last possible second, go to work, get most of my shopping done on my lunch, and then train immediately after work. I had to invest in a good set of lights, plan out some routes where I could comfortably do my workouts, and invest in some good clothes. It was worth it! Once I got used to the routine there wasn't any stress and I could concentrate on training.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [fulla] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fulla, this is so true! Sometimes I feel like I'm running around like a headless chicken to get my sport in around home commitments.

I've still never got to the point of perfect time mangement, where absolutely nothing gets neglected. Kids always come first though, no matter what!
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Anna s] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Anna s, I think it's impossible to not neglect something if you are doing 12+ hours of training a week on top of a full time job, especially if you have kids and post regularly on slowtwitch hah

You could always have less sleep, but that is probably going to affect your ability to do your job and do decent quality training. Plus you might be more likely to be grumpy, moody etc around your family/gf/bf/partner etc.

For the amount of time some people seem to spend on here, they are probably also neglecting their job when they're meant to be working.

I know that when I feel stressed about getting the training in, I often think "why am I doing this?"
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Anna s] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
On the "stress" of cramming the training in. Mental stress is interesting. Take for example, my retired dad, who has all day to do anything. Now if he has to just meet us at the coffee shop at a random time, it's this massive ordeal with his entire routine (whatever that is....he's on perpetual vacation) being turned upside down. This from the guy that spent half of his career on planes bouncing in between Canada, Africa and Asia winning and managing large scale ultra complex mining projects (yeah, you know, the ones in the 60-80's that ripped apart the environment). Now any stressor throws him off. I THINK as humans we get used to more or less repeated stress to the point that if the same stress appears daily it falls into the category of "white noise"....it's there in the background, but you get used to it. If it changes dramatically and you have to keep changing your system to get the training in, that's when I feel it gets a lot more stressful. But I always say to my guys....the challenge is not the workout, the challenge is getting to the start line of the workout. Just make getting to the start line easy. Do sub optimal workouts for which it is easier to get to the start line than ideal workouts where making it to the start line is iffy, because in the latter case, there is a great chance there will be no arrival at the start line. When I was doing my gad degree at biz school, I chose to live beside the university and away from work vs close to work and far from the university, because I knew I had to go to work but I could skip every class. So I made the start line of getting to class "easy". Added bonus was I made the start line of getting to swimming also easy since the university had a 50m pool.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So I understand the concept and also see how consistency is key here but I still struggle to see how each 2 hrs should be play out per day.

So if I am too apply the 2 hrs per day, is there any benefits if the sessions are done in 'little chuck'? Would a extra 30 min in the morning or a short 30 min brick run/double run in the evening be as beneficial as doing let say 2 x 1 hr session? In the perfect world, I would love to get that but with family, work, commute, commitments (kids activities, homework, ...), it is not always that easy.

Cheers!
Last edited by: tixunau: Feb 27, 17 10:23
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Um... 14 hours a week is only 700 hours a year, and that only if you manage 50 full weeks of it. Good luck.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Take for example, my retired dad, who has all day to do anything. Now if he has to just meet us at the coffee shop at a random time, it's this massive ordeal with his entire routine (whatever that is....he's on perpetual vacation) being turned upside down. This from the guy that spent half of his career on planes bouncing in between Canada, Africa and Asia winning and managing large scale ultra complex mining projects (yeah, you know, the ones in the 60-80's that ripped apart the environment). Now any stressor throws him off.

Are we brothers? Good thread, Dev.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [chxddstri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chxddstri wrote:
Miagi say, "find your balance"

Not if you aspire to be really good...


"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
stringcheese wrote:
chxddstri wrote:
Miagi say, "find your balance"


Not if you aspire to be really good...

I hope to be active my entire life. I'll look for balance.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Im 50 years old and I have pretty much trained anywhere from 1:45 to 3:00 per day 7 days a week for over twenty years and even before that I was probably hitting 10 hours plus per week.
There is no magic to it, consistency is key, day in day out for years and you will get good.
There is plenty of time in the day even with family, work etc...
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I would agree with the idea that consistency is key, and somewhat underrated.

I think there's a notion that fitness is merely like TSS "chronic training load." And that only marginal gains happen after you've reached competence and trained a lot.

But I suspect, with only anecdotal evidence, that continuous training year in and year out (with proper rest, nutrition) can bring sort of non-linear breakthroughs in performance. I don't know the mechanism.

However there is some selection bias here, probably. You take the time to do something consistently when you really enjoy it. And when you're pretty good at it relative to most others. So consistency probably isn't totally independent of other factors like genetic predisposition, strong social cohorts in training (good group of people to train with and race against), etc.

So while long-term consistency probably has some direct causality to good performance, there's also probably a lot of mere correlation.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Dudaddy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There is plenty of time in the day even with family, work etc...

Why do people continue to say this??? How can you possibly know without knowing someone's time commitments or desire to fill non committed time to triathlon

And that's again still assuming you want to spend all of your non-committed time to triathlon. There is a place in this sport for those who don't. I train a lot (according to my wife) and any average human being but pales in comparison to those on here.

Take the other day for example... I had some non committed time that I could have fit in another workout. My son asked me to play Legos with him. Because I said yes, I am now either mentally weak, don't structure my time well etc. because I could have done another workout. Again, this thread topic is great and right on point but the assumptions and innuendos in the posts that follow are, in my opinion, severely misplaced.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DFW_Tri wrote:
There is plenty of time in the day even with family, work etc...

Why do people continue to say this??? How can you possibly know without knowing someone's time commitments or desire to fill non committed time to triathlon

And that's again still assuming you want to spend all of your non-committed time to triathlon. There is a place in this sport for those who don't. I train a lot (according to my wife) and any average human being but pales in comparison to those on here.

Take the other day for example... I had some non committed time that I could have fit in another workout. My son asked me to play Legos with him. Because I said yes, I am now either mentally weak, don't structure my time well etc. because I could have done another workout. Again, this thread topic is great and right on point but the assumptions and innuendos in the posts that follow are, in my opinion, severely misplaced.

I agree with what you have said here. At the end of the day, everyone gets 168 hours per week. It's a lot of time, but it's not a lot of time. It really depends on what all one has going on and how they want to prioritize them. By the way, there is not a single workout or race that can replace the hours of lego that I played with my son (OK, I lied, I'll selfishly take the day of a kona finish over lego time, but other than that, lego time was awesome). We still have a 1/4 of a room in our house devoted to all the lego builds. We're not throwing all those memories away.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DFW_Tri wrote:
There is plenty of time in the day even with family, work etc...

Why do people continue to say this??? How can you possibly know without knowing someone's time commitments or desire to fill non committed time to triathlon.

Next question, what's special about 14 hours a week? Wouldn't the truly committed be better with 18 or 20? Or could they get by with 10?

Again, 14 hours a week is only 700 hours a year if you train 50 weeks. If you "only" train 45 weeks a year you have to average almost 17 hours a week to do 750/year. What magic number means something to you?
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
stringcheese wrote:
chxddstri wrote:
Miagi say, "find your balance"

Not if you aspire to be really good...

My God, Slowtwitchers never disappoint.

Read the quote..."find YOUR balance"

There is no correct answer to finding your balance. If being good at triathlon gives you balance, then Bravo for you!

Your welcome

Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [fulla] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes indeed, I feel like I have the same "time is running out" stress you mentioned.
Sundays I tried to schedule my coming week training. I put it all in my calendar and take the time to put some notes to motivate myself. My main battle: going to bed early.

I've been trying to get my 8hr of sleep everyday, but sometimes for instance, If I have to swim at 5:30 am but forgot to complete my meal preparation, I end up cooking after work, going to bed at 11 pm, which would lead to only have like 5hrs of sleep and you get the idea, it cascades to the rest of the week and creates anxiety that I screwed up my entire plan.

I found this book "The Champion mindset" by Joanna Zeiger that I've been reading lately and It helped me to stay motivated (that and also this forum with amazing post like this).

As someone also mentioned, finding YOUR balance is a very personal journey. But definitely just dumping my own excuses and JFT helped for sure.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
  "But I always say to my guys....the challenge is not the workout, the challenge is getting to the start line of the workout. Just make getting to the start line easy. Do sub optimal workouts for which it is easier to get to the start line than ideal workouts where making it to the start line is iffy, because in the latter case, there is a great chance there will be no arrival at the start line."

This is basically how I train! I just get to the workout and if I'm feeling good I'll do intervals, if not it will be all easy. I never go to a workout stressing whether it will be optimal or not. It makes it so much easier to workout and when a session goes really well, that's a lovely bonus!!
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"Next question, what's special about 14 hours a week? Wouldn't the truly committed be better with 18 or 20? Or could they get by with 10?"

Its about being consistant, 14hrs is what you can easily do every week. Yes in an ironman build you can increase to 18 or 20, but this is really difficult to sustain for a whole year without getting injured, ill or just damn tired.

Well, that's my experience anyway!
Last edited by: Anna s: Feb 27, 17 10:21
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Anna s] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Anna s wrote:
"But I always say to my guys....the challenge is not the workout, the challenge is getting to the start line of the workout. Just make getting to the start line easy. Do sub optimal workouts for which it is easier to get to the start line than ideal workouts where making it to the start line is iffy, because in the latter case, there is a great chance there will be no arrival at the start line."

This is basically how I train! I just get to the workout and if I'm feeling good I'll do intervals, if not it will be all easy. I never go to a workout stressing whether it will be optimal or not. It makes it so much easier to workout and when a session goes really well, that's a lovely bonus!!

This is pretty much what I do; I am happy to report that I am 40 and my times still getting better without being physically gifted or a "freak" hahaha

I had a long run with a friend Sunday and as he was turning around I told him that the next 20min before my turn around would be the hardest part of the run (I wasn't wrong).

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes, if you want to commit that time to training there is time. If you have other things higher on your priority list that's perfectly understandable.
Im up at 6:30ish most days and immediately roll out for a 45:00 run. Many evenings Im on the indoor bike trainer until 10pm because other life situations took priority that day but I still managed to train regardless. I have a one hour commute to my office both ways.
I always ask myself these simple questions.
1.Are you sick? If not train.
2.Are you injured? If not train.
3.Are you tired? Too bad, train anyway.
I rarely sleep more than 5.5 hours per night, sometimes 6 but its rare.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Dudaddy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
And there are those--Dev among them--who would argue you are shorting yourself significantly on sleep as you should/must be getting 8+ to maximize training. So now you must add 2.5 of sleep to your daily routine in addition to the extra training hours.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [chxddstri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chxddstri wrote:
stringcheese wrote:
chxddstri wrote:
Miagi say, "find your balance"


Not if you aspire to be really good...


My God, Slowtwitchers never disappoint.

Read the quote..."find YOUR balance"

There is no correct answer to finding your balance. If being good at triathlon gives you balance, then Bravo for you!

Your welcome

I want to be as best as I can be at Triathlon. My life is definitely NOT balanced right now.
Training is a priority. I've put other parts of my life on the back burner these days.

When I'm done, I'll find a better balance. Until then, non-training related things get ignored, delayed, shortened, half-assed.....


"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jstonebarger wrote:
DFW_Tri wrote:
There is plenty of time in the day even with family, work etc...


Why do people continue to say this??? How can you possibly know without knowing someone's time commitments or desire to fill non committed time to triathlon.


Next question, what's special about 14 hours a week? Wouldn't the truly committed be better with 18 or 20? Or could they get by with 10?

Again, 14 hours a week is only 700 hours a year if you train 50 weeks. If you "only" train 45 weeks a year you have to average almost 17 hours a week to do 750/year. What magic number means something to you?


I don't think there is anything magical on 14 hours per week. I can get to the same race results on 7 hours per week or 21 hours per week or 28 hours per week as 14 by modulating intensity-rest-diet.

But that's not the point. I'll just share some amplification:

  • 2 hours per day CAN be an achievable number off 2 workouts per day. A short lunch workout, a longer early morning or evening workout. It "CAN" fit into the schedules or many, not all. 3 hours per day is possible (been there, done that), but I have found that even if you open up the time to do the training it can dramatically impact performance at work. Most of us need energy for day to day life
  • Carrying the 2 hour concept over to the weekend, that's 1 hour on one day, and a 3 hour pass from family on the other day. The 3 hour pass may be hard for some to negotiate, but if your family is supportive, being on the road by 5:30 am and back in at 8:30 am and showered and ready for family by 9 am, and you just missed helping with breakfast. Still doable
  • At 2 hours per day, you don't NEED to think that much about optimal training load to get to say 95% of ultimate performance. Go easy some days, go hard on other days. Its enough volume to get you close just going with the flow. At 7-8 hours per week, you can get the same results, but you need to play more scientifically with the intensity balance and the diet and how much time of the 8 hours you give to each sport. At 14 hours per week, all sports can get "enough" attention if you want.
  • At 20 hours per week when you layer on top of that work and family, you're playing with fire a bit more in terms of burning the candle at all ends and trying to make time for sufficient rest

So yes, nothing magical about the 2 hour per day number. I just find its an achieveable target for a lot of people willing to do the 2x per day training plan without burning the candle at every day, getting mentally burnt out and having enough energy for life, and it leaves a lot of wiggle room for just doing whatever training you want when you want and going with the flow and still getting faster. You can get faster on less with more science but you won't have as much flex to wing workouts, and you can get way faster on the 20+ hrs per week program, but you need to be even more ultra organized and you're at the razor's edge in terms of torpedoing other aspects of life (and you could torpedo your fitness to by overcooking on all fronts).

My view seeing what people have pulled off in 'real life'. A lot of people say they will do things, but often when push comes to shove, they don't. If on the other hand, I give them tools to have fun, and get faster by just getting to today's training start line and enjoying today's training, then we're getting there. But the key is they can't get burnt out on other ends of life.

2 hrs seems to be a sustainable sweet spot for reasonably committed individuals if they want it.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Great summary, 4th year of racing and I am training more hours and working more hours then ever before and what i have found is exactly what you said: Get your ass out the door! Get int what you can but get it in consistently every day! Boom, nice write up!

2022: Galveston and Kona
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Can I ask you a question (to you specifically and to this thread in general in case anyone else wants to answer).

  1. When the alarm rings and you take the first few step out of bed do you want to train?
  2. How about while having coffee a few minutes later?
  3. Or how about after eating some oatmeal <insert your quick meal of choice>?
  4. How about when you start putting on workout clothes? Do you want to train yet?
  5. How about 2 min into your warm up?
  6. What happens at 7 minutes into the warmup?


For me for 1-5 the answers are NO NO NO NO NO. I absolutely don't want to train at all those points in my day, but the answer to 6 is "BRING IT ON !!!". I have to haul myself through this endless daily process where the voice inside my heads goes, "you're out of your mind, how about going back to bed". Yet I endure that entire process knowing the reward at the end is worth it and makes me happy.

I don't know how many times at mile 22 of a race, I've had to call on the same mentality...."DON"T LISTEN TO YOUR BODY SAYING NO, JUST GET THROUGH THIS HUMP....NOTHING WORTH HAVING COMES WITHOUT THE VOICE SAYING PACK IT IN"....by mile 25, its all worth it.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I feel the same way 1-5 Dev... unfortunately I'm not yet mature enough to come to the realization that it will be worth it once I'm up and going... I also blame my wife and dog for looking very warm and cozy in our bed!
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Can I ask you a question (to you specifically and to this thread in general in case anyone else wants to answer).

  1. When the alarm rings and you take the first few step out of bed do you want to train?
  2. How about while having coffee a few minutes later?
  3. Or how about after eating some oatmeal <insert your quick meal of choice>?
  4. How about when you start putting on workout clothes? Do you want to train yet?
  5. How about 2 min into your warm up?
  6. What happens at 7 minutes into the warmup?

I answer yes to #1, #5, and #6. But as soon as I get up (4 AM) and out of the bedroom, I am into the kitchen to make breakfast (english muffin w/ PB and honey, plus a banana) and an espresso. The second I sit down on the couch with that meal, I don't want to go to my bike/treadmill/the pool. Though, the second I get my legs moving, or push off the wall for my first length in the pool, I'm ready to fucking go. Not a moment sooner though.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
And there are those--Dev among them--who would argue you are shorting yourself significantly on sleep as you should/must be getting 8+ to maximize training.

I would argue that you need 8 hours of sleep to maximize your health and that has nothing to do with training. Getting good sleep and eating well is far more important to health than training.

Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Anna s] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
For ME 14 hours or so a week (2 hours a day) is doable without making training feel like a second job. One can always throw in a few weeks of more training if a longer race is your goal.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
2 hrs seems to be a sustainable sweet spot for reasonably committed individuals if they want it.


Dev,

Thanks for the earlier mentions.

I agree with what you said above. If you are going to take seriously being one of the better athletes in your AG, going for podium places in that AG, qualifying for national AG team spots on the ITU side of things or qualifying for the the IM World Championships - I'd say you need to be looking at roughly 14 hrs/week as a Jan - Oct average.

But people should not get all wrapped up in the numbers - as they tend to do these days. And as in the other thread, it's not week-to-week that we are looking, or even month-to-month - I'd say the minimum time chunk to look at is about 6 months. What to the total volume of work you have been able to do in that 6 month period of time.

One thing I always did, was to have a set race at least one month out of each month of the year that I would do almost every year. In the triathlon off-season (Oct - May) these would be running races or XC-Ski races, and then obviously in-season (May - Sept) triathlon races. What this gave me is a focus and motivation for each month of the year, and then of course the ultimate bench-marking - how well did I do in the race??


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Can I ask you a question (to you specifically and to this thread in general in case anyone else wants to answer).
  1. When the alarm rings and you take the first few step out of bed do you want to train?
  2. How about while having coffee a few minutes later?
  3. Or how about after eating some oatmeal <insert your quick meal of choice>?
  4. How about when you start putting on workout clothes? Do you want to train yet?
  5. How about 2 min into your warm up?
  6. What happens at 7 minutes into the warmup?


I'd answer "yes" to all of those questions but I still don't train for roughly an hour (sometimes more) after I get up. Reading, coffee and walking the dog are higher on my priority list first thing in the morning. Once that happens there's no stopping me.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [TriowaCPA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The workaround for me in the AM is I don't sit down! I, like you, find that when I sit down I want to go back to sleep. So I grab whatever I am going to eat, then feed the cat and get stuff ready for whatever workout it is. Then I sit on my throne and workout after that!

My Blog - Twitter - Instagram
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Can I ask you a question (to you specifically and to this thread in general in case anyone else wants to answer).

  1. When the alarm rings and you take the first few step out of bed do you want to train?
  2. How about while having coffee a few minutes later?
  3. Or how about after eating some oatmeal <insert your quick meal of choice>?
  4. How about when you start putting on workout clothes? Do you want to train yet?
  5. How about 2 min into your warm up?
  6. What happens at 7 minutes into the warmup?


Hmm...interesting to see different takes on these responses. During the week, I'm a NO on #1. Like JReilly, I solve 2-3 by standing. Oatmeal is already made in the fridge, stand and eat it while the coffee warms in the microwave. Once the clothes start going on, "put me in coach!"

If its still at "NO" by #6, then I'm probably going to adjust the workout plan (skip the intervals or whatever, and go easier).

On the weekend, I'm good to go at #1 (fatigued/overreached state notwithstanding).
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [jrielley] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jrielley wrote:
The workaround for me in the AM is I don't sit down!

Alright, I'll try this tomorrow. I have to be on the bike at 4:45 AM for 1hr 45min (TrainerRoad's Gibraltar) then run 30 min. I'll stand (or sit at the island in the kitchen), drink the coffee, and skip the couch/TV.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Can I ask you a question (to you specifically and to this thread in general in case anyone else wants to answer).



  1. When the alarm rings and you take the first few step out of bed do you want to train?
  2. How about while having coffee a few minutes later?
  3. Or how about after eating some oatmeal <insert your quick meal of choice>?
  4. How about when you start putting on workout clothes? Do you want to train yet?
  5. How about 2 min into your warm up?
  6. What happens at 7 minutes into the warmup?

1. Hell no!
2. Even less
3. Motivation dropping even more
4. Fear and depression creeps in
5. At times start feeling better
6. I am going to re phrase this as "15-30 min into warmup": Start feeling like much better, by end of working trying to own it.


-- My bad times in races are normal at mile 9-11 of a half or 18-22 of a full, and yes much like getting out of bed i remind myself that i have and will get through it and I can't waste all those mornings i woke up at 4:30am just to give in at that point in a race.

2022: Galveston and Kona


Edit: I don't even like training I like racing fast which just takes a shit load of training!
Last edited by: BBLOEHR: Feb 28, 17 11:16
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [TriowaCPA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Give it a try. I also found when I sat down to eat I would get on my phone and procrastinate too much too. Now if I have to bike I do all of that during my warm up.

My Blog - Twitter - Instagram
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for starting this thread. It has motivated me to get more focused on my training. Since doing IMMT the first two years it was held I have been off and on with my training. I have no excuses not to get to 2 hrs/day since my work is only 1 km from home, kids are all out on their own and career is in a great spot with no desires to go to the next level.
I'm curious about what you include in your training hours. Obviously swim/bike/run but do you also include the time doing weights, yoga, core work or other strenuous activities. Also do you have a minimum time threshold, i.e. activity needs to be >10 min
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [jrielley] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jrielley wrote:
The workaround for me in the AM is I don't sit down! I, like you, find that when I sit down I want to go back to sleep. So I grab whatever I am going to eat, then feed the cat and get stuff ready for whatever workout it is. Then I sit on my throne and workout after that!

This is great advice...interestingly on biz travel in a hotel, I make my oatmeal and coffee all standing up in my hotel room and I find in spite of jetlag, I am ready to go much faster than at home when I sit down after making oatmeal and coffee and start browsing the web or reading the newspaper....then I don't want to get up. Tomorrow, I will try your standing only plan. THANKS....you learn something new in every thread (good and bad LOL)
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Glad I could help! I'll be doing this tomorrow before my swim. But instead of making anything I'll grab a stroopwafle from the cabinet and get my bags ready then head out. Let me know how it goes!

My Blog - Twitter - Instagram
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
And the ones who did that while getting enough sleep and keeping or getting body composition low and doing nothing stupid to get injured, they really rocked it.
On body composition, what is your best advice?
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [jrielley] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
X2. I wake up and start making either coffee or espresso immediately. As the coffee is brewing, I will sweep the kitchen, do some dishes, fold some laundry, etc. while listening to a podcast. It's easy to keep the kitchen clean like this and it's easy to just knock out something like that quick. After that I will set the trainer up and then get ready for my workout. If I sit down, I start thinking about the workout and once I start thinking about what I'm about to endure, I start to dread it.

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri | BSC Multisport

Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Jonathan22] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jonathan22 wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
And the ones who did that while getting enough sleep and keeping or getting body composition low and doing nothing stupid to get injured, they really rocked it.

On body composition, what is your best advice?

No nutritionist here, but by and large, my 2 cents is to eat from the outside aisles of the grocery store, and try to get the bulk of your calories in the first half of the day. Couple that with 14 hours per week of training and sufficient sleep and you get lean pretty fast....cut out refined sugars...no sodas for sure, black coffee etc. Limit deserts to a few treats per week, good fats only, cut out sat fats....what else did I miss? Eat as much as you want during workout and as little as possible after ~8 pm.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [jrielley] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
The workaround for me in the AM is I don't sit down!

No way I could ever do that. One of the best parts of my day is snuggling up with my Dachshund each morning drinking coffee and doing a bit of reading.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [logella] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That's my bedtime routine! Play fetch with my cat, yes cat, and read. He snuggles with the wife when I leave to go swim in the morning. But weekends are different. Way more time in the AM for tv and snuggles!

My Blog - Twitter - Instagram
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Jonathan22 wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
And the ones who did that while getting enough sleep and keeping or getting body composition low and doing nothing stupid to get injured, they really rocked it.

On body composition, what is your best advice?


No nutritionist here, but by and large, my 2 cents is to eat from the outside aisles of the grocery store, and try to get the bulk of your calories in the first half of the day. Couple that with 14 hours per week of training and sufficient sleep and you get lean pretty fast....cut out refined sugars...no sodas for sure, black coffee etc. Limit deserts to a few treats per week, good fats only, cut out sat fats....what else did I miss? Eat as much as you want during workout and as little as possible after ~8 pm.

Are you saying only black coffee or no coffee? If no coffee, you and I can't be friends.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [jrielley] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jrielley wrote:
Glad I could help! I'll be doing this tomorrow before my swim. But instead of making anything I'll grab a stroopwafle from the cabinet and get my bags ready then head out. Let me know how it goes!

I just wanted to report back that after trying this for 2 days, I am way faster getting going to the workout and my runs have required less warmup time. I am coming off a lumbar spine/nerve issue and not sitting down at all in the morning before working out is actually really helping. Now I know why I can get going so much faster when away from home and on biz travel and I just do everything standing up in my hotel room vs sitting down for breakfast at home. I'll keep at this.
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Glad it seems to have worked! For me my biggest issue with sitting down is I tend to check Facebook, then twitter, then instagram, then ST. And that takes so much time. But if I am standing I do none of that because I am getting little things done before I head out.


devashish_paul wrote:
jrielley wrote:
Glad I could help! I'll be doing this tomorrow before my swim. But instead of making anything I'll grab a stroopwafle from the cabinet and get my bags ready then head out. Let me know how it goes!


I just wanted to report back that after trying this for 2 days, I am way faster getting going to the workout and my runs have required less warmup time. I am coming off a lumbar spine/nerve issue and not sitting down at all in the morning before working out is actually really helping. Now I know why I can get going so much faster when away from home and on biz travel and I just do everything standing up in my hotel room vs sitting down for breakfast at home. I'll keep at this.

My Blog - Twitter - Instagram
Quote Reply
Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Great reading and really inspiring - not to make it more complicated.

29 y/o - getting back in the sport after some years away.
Hoping to race some great 70.3 in 2017 and 2018, and then move to 140.6!

I have a son - 20 months, but not living with his mom. He is at my house 1 evening a week, and every other weekend. Making my weekly schedule, a 2-week schedule.

With the "2 hrs per day/Barry P run/Brett Sutton Swim" - my plan would look like this - almost only able to train in the morning, due to work:

Monday: 60 min bike (2x20 @70.3) + 60 min run (off bike - slow pace)
Tuesday: 60 min swim (Endurance / 4 Work : 1 rest) + 60 min bike (3x10 @FTP) + 30 min run (PM - slow pace)
Wednesday: 60 min swim (Heart Rate / 3:2) + 60 min run (slow pace)
Thursday: 90 min bike (3x20 @140.6) + 30 min run (off bike - slow pace)
Friday: 40 min swim (Speed / 1:3) + 60 min run (tempo)
Saturday (weekend without my son): 60 min swim (Long/Easy) + 180 min bike (@Z2) + 30 min run (off bike - slow pace)
Sunday (weekend without my son): 90 min bike (3x20 @140.6) + 90 min run (off bike - slow)

Monday: 90 min swim (Long/Easy) + 30 min run (slow pace)
Tuesday: 60 min swim (Heart Rate / 3:2) + 60 min run (tempo)
Wednesday: 60 min bike (4x4 @VO2) + 30 min run (off bike - slow pace)
Thursday: 40 min swim (Speed / 1:3) + 60 min bike (2x20 @70.3) + 30 min run (off bike - slow)
Friday: 60 min swim (Endurance / 4:1) + 90 min run (slow pace)
Saturday (weekend with son): 90-120 min bike @Z2 - when he is sleeping
Sunday (weekend with son): No training / Rest Day

Swimming in the 2 weeks:
8 times - 7 hours and 50 minutes
2 speed sessions
2 endurance/race pace sessions
2 Heart rate/VO2 sessions
2 longer aerocis sessions

Biking in the 2 weeks:
8 times - 12 hours
2 70.3 sessions
2 140.6 sessions
2 "long" Z2 sessions
1 FTP session
1 VO2 session

Running in the 2 weeks:
12 times - 10 hours
6 short slow sessions
2 medium slow sessions
2 medium tempo sessions
2 long slow sessions

All feedback and inputs will be appreciated :)
Thanks!

---
ASICS FrontRunner Denmark
Long Distance PB: 8:25
Instagram: larsschmidttri
Quote Reply