p5, can't use the other 2 ant usac master nats ;)

Disc brakes - P5x

Rim brakes - Ventum

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P4
Mandatory: 3T Ventus. TriRig Omega. Shrug&turtle.
Option: Zipp 1080. POC Tempor.

P3C... because of proper geometry.

Ventum- I love the ride and the built in bottle is awesome for longer rides/races.

If I can help answer any of your questions feel free to contact me at jimmy@ventumracing.com.

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JImmy Seear
Co-Founder Ventum
http://www.ventumracing.com

Cervelo has been around for a long time and has amazing brand reputation and high resale value. With that being said I think the Cervelo p5x has a huge chance of being a flop. It is the first bike into hydros and I think future bikes will be better. I like to skip gen 1 of really new stuff. I would go with a P5 over the P5X

Ventum is a newer brand but I know Jimmy, Diaa, and Rachel are working hard. Probably the smartest thing they did was take all their athletes to the wind tunnel. I mean if you are going to build a super bike you might as well spend to optimize your riders on it. I still think they should publish all the data, I think that would be awesome to see. Everyday that goes by Ventum earns a little more respect. I like small business and people that are nimble. I am interested in seeing where they take the company.

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Disc brakes are coming whether anyone on this forum including Tom A. likes them or not. Why buy a P5? It was designed from 2009-2012. It's old. Outdated. Time to move on. It's still a really fast bike though.

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Right, it is super fast so why not buy a USED P5, use it for the a few years, and then buy a P6X when they come out. I am not in the business of spending 15k to have something depreciate 9K over two years when I can buy something for $3,500k and have it depreciate $500 over two years.

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Because 10 speed drivetrains still work.

Because people still ride aluminum rimmed wheels.

Because people still ride steel bikes.

And also, because the P5x sucks. The P5 is as fast (or faster?) and cheaper. And will continue to be, in comparison to the P5x...until...forever.

If Jimmy and team could just clean up that aerobar/stem/just behind the stem area so its not so visually unappealing, I'd be in line for a Ventum.

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"One Line Robert"

Because no one knows what Cervelo's strategy is. There is no way of knowing if the bike will be a "flop" as you say. There may not be a p6x for another 5 years. Buy what makes you happy.

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LBS has a P5x on display, something about it is both amazing and awful all at once. The integration of storage is second to none. the overall look is meh and has one hell of a price tag.

ETA: I heard they have sold 20 nationwide. I don't think it ever was meant to be some blockbuster huge deal but more of a proof of concept.

ETA x2: if you are traveling with the bike a lot I would do the P5x, the mechanics at my LBS said the thing is "easy" to work on, but I think they are using the P5 as their baseline.

I know nothing beyond what is seen in pictures of the ventum

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That is probably the number one selling feature to me on the Morph-bar. It would be so simple to travel with that bar. Would easily make for the simplest pack possible.

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Considering it takes about a month to get one right now, this is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too low. Our stores have sold at least 5 that I know of.

Where in the country are you? I'm just repeating what I heard, LBS has 2 locations, one has sold a couple I think and the other none.

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Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

Yeah I've seen at least 4 in my local shop.

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South coast worst coast. But there be oil here, so there be cash.

I left the oil rich southern Texas for the promised land of Minnesnowta (my home land).

I think there is a lot of confirmation bias in this forum when it comes to these high end bikes. We frequent shops that cater to places that sell these things. It helps that HED is 5 miles from my LBS so tend to hear pick up some of the inside scoop.

I am not a devout triathlete, but I hope it does well because it really is a neat bike system. It really is a 1 trick pony though.

I can tell you there have been a lot more 3t exploros and Opens through the doors in the last couple months than damn near anything besides fat bikes.

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I think P5X will be a flop based on price alone. The 2.0 will cost half as much and will also be a beam bike with disks and long course storage options. The insanely expensive P5X at that point will have lost most of its resale value. Surely people see this.

"I heard they have sold 20 nationwide"

i think it's closer to 600.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

That isn't bad, won't cover the R&D.

In 2 years they can trickle it down to a P3x or whatever and it will be a total hit. Everyone that buys a second gen at half price will have to thank the people that bought the first gen.

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"That isn't bad, won't cover the R&D. "

it's february.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I feel like I am getting picked on, do they have a sales projection?

In your history with the sport, do revolutionary bike designs have a peak and fall around their release or do they tend to slowly grow to a max units/month or year then settle out?

ETA: How many units has Ventum moved? are sales growing or even for them? (trying to keep it relevant to all bikes listed)

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Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

P5. Fastest option.

People just don't want it to succeed. Buy the bike that makes you happy.

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Short course or TTs: P5
Long Course: Ventum

P5X? Never. It's hideous in person and in terms of "storage integration" I much prefer the idea of a bta and Ventum's bottle and then putting my flat kit and any other miscellaneous stuff behind the saddle. Personally I would have bought a Ventum (still might) if it weren't for the front end and the horizontal dropouts.

Ventum. Just bought one for my wife (full disclosure). Her previous bike was a pretty tricked out P3 and she's definitely faster on the Ventum.

Plus, its such an easy bike to work on, makes my life easier!

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"Suddenly the thought struck me. My floor is someone elses ceiling"-Nils Ferlin

Since neither manufacturer has released an actual wind tunnel report (to my knowledge):

Ventum, cause it looks cooler.

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

Neither. Get the Andean. Best of both worlds and Slowman and Rappstar ride one!

You can fit any handlebars you like to the Ventum if you do not like our standard set up. As for cleaning up the gap between stem and bottle we have some items coming soon.

Would love you to ride a Ventum and see what it's like.

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JImmy Seear
Co-Founder Ventum
http://www.ventumracing.com

I respect Cevelo as a brand and see them as the industry leader. I would be surprised if they have sold 600 P5X so far but if they have then that is very good for our industry especially at the price point of that bike.

We had sold over 300 bikes at year one of sales. Not a bad start for a new company but we are very ambitious to grow those sales in 2017.

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JImmy Seear
Co-Founder Ventum
http://www.ventumracing.com

Would love to have you ride a Ventum. We can install your favorite bars and see what you think.

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JImmy Seear
Co-Founder Ventum
http://www.ventumracing.com

You just gave a fantastic answer to your own question. Might something better come along with disc brakes in the future? Sure. Is it available now? Nope.

Am I the only person on earth who thinks the Ventum is the ugliest bike on the planet? The P5x and even the Diamondback are better looking bikes. Just sayin...

I feel like the fact that Cervelo is the leading bike at Kona every year says something, and usually it's the P5 or P3 that you see them riding.

Being said, I don't ever see a Cervelo Rep commenting or being super respectable on any forums, and the customer service you'd get from Ventum would be insane. I mean Jimmy is willing to help out anyone to get on a bike! Wish I could afford one, ha!

Ventum definitely, but with the P5X coming a close second for me.

I like the hydration integration options of the Ventum and pick it over the other two for sheer functionality. To me the aesthetics of the bike are ok but I would rather ride the Shiv or Trinity. (Un-related I know)

I think the P5X to me is my aesthetics winner. That bike looks stunning. Like a more complete feeling Dimond

I have visible eye twitches whenever I see the thing, it's genuinely a disgusting bike. P5x and Diamondback are marginally better but considering the fact that there's very little advantage over traditional frames I'd take one of those any day.

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Disclaimer: Not a triathlete anymore, just a fish

I don't think blind zealotry is the best selling point...

I'd go for a P5. I'd be slower on anything else.

I used to think this. And I was pretty vocal about it on here. But the Ventum has grown on me honestly (so has the p5x)..... aesthetically speaking.

My buddy has a Ventum. Jimmy personally drove up to my buddy's house (~100 miles from miami) so my friend could demo different sizes of the bike and figure out which size fit him the best. A few weeks later, Jimmy personally delivered a new ventum to him. Although I haven't met Jimmy, I was thoroughly impressed with Ventums/Jimmy's customer service.

Ventum has the trade in program now and I think they do 0% financing as well (could be wrong on that one). They are trying to make it easy on the customer to upgrade or buy a new bike. As much as I would love to buy a new bike every year, forking out several thousands of dollars all at once and having to deal with selling my old bike, is a big hassle. Ventum seems to be one of the few who understands this and want to take the burden off the customer. Great move on their part.

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blog

While you make some good points I just went on the ventum site and built up a bike comparable to the p5x. There's no real price difference. For that I think I would go with the #1 brand and the better looking bike.

I honestly haven't looked at prices on either of those bikes in quite some time.

At the end of the day, the consumer has to figure out what are their priorities for a bike (other than fit). Here are mine for example in particular order:

1. Sexy/attractive - I need to get excited when I look at the bike
2. Fast
3. Storage/hydration (this can be combined with number 1 and 2)
4. Customer support (spare parts availability, dealer location, etc)

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blog

I've got these 4 as well, although #3 is more a 'nice to have' than a hard requirement. I'd pick a p5x (and will, come job bonus time next February) over a p5. Neither the Ventum nor the Omni do much for me in terms of visual appeal. I've always liked the looks of beam bikes and have come close to buying both a titanflex and a dimond in not too distant past.

So I just purchased the P5X in the Ultegra/HED configuration. Really like the idea of sequential shifting, can't wait to spend time with it.

Not the most flatering pic but I picked it up a lunch and brought it to my office.

Special thanks to the Awesome staff at the Tri Shop in Plano, TX.

congrats on the new bike....looks sweet.

Interesting to see this old thread and the naysayers about the p5x. At Kona this year I was quite surprised by the relatively high number of people I saw riding the bike.

No offense to Jimmy and all the hard work that Ventum is putting in. But their bike has not tested particularly well in the very limited publicly available data. One can only assume that more extensive private testing indicates something similar which is why it remains private. In addition, the bike is shall we say, polarizing. Even with a $30000USD build and custom paint job, the bike at Kona stood out simply for how ugly it is, something that hasn't changed in my view since the bike came out. And finally, there is absolutely no price discount given for taking the risk of going with such a small firm. Why on earth I would pay that kind of money for a bike from a company that is not at or near the top of bike brands in terms of the availability of service and support?

For my money, a used p5 or even new one makes a lot of sense. (Granted, I would say that..I ride a 4 year old p5 and still break bike split PRs and KQ with it.) But yes yes yes, I hear slowtwitch groan about how "old" it is in the same sentence they admit it is still a very fast bike. I don't carry much with me on course, so I think the aerodynamics of my P5 are well within shouting range of the p5x.

I don't have to own the flashiest bike at the bike check-in. My goal is to be on top of the bike that is moving fastest between t1 and t2!

At my lbs in Toronto a few days ago and they've sold over a dozen themselves.

As for the thread....

I'm partial to my Trek, but if I was forced to choose, I'd pick the P5x mainly because of the trust factor and also because I could get it fixed right down the street.

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Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

I mean, at first I thought tri bikes as a concept were disgusting. Things grow on you.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Thanks for the pic; I'll probably do the same model but with a disc in the rear. Somewhere I stumbled across a guy that does custom vinyl wraps for bikes (that don't void the warranty and are removable, unlike custom paint) and sent him a crude sketch of a pink floyd-themed design. We talked on the phone about some ideas and he came back with this idea, which I like:

My eyes hurt after seeing that

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Didn't think we'd ever agree on anything...

I didn’t think a P5x could get uglier. I was wrong.

Oh my . . . my affection for the P5X will never be the same again. That is off the wall!

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

I'd go vemtum frame... then I'd get the profile designs areia ultimate combo and ive seen pics of it with an integrated hydration system much like the canyon speedmax!!!

Not a fan of enve wheels so I could careless about em, so just about any decentlty good wheels will do the job here. I would luv etap but until the blipbox is no more, any form of di2 will be better!

So all in all, ventum is the winner of the 3!

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Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!

Man I gotta admit to love most new superbikes but that ventum to me just looks broken!

Many of the best reviews of it is that it fates quite well in crosswords something I'm surely most bikes suffer from!

When the time comes for a new bike, it'll be between vemtum or omni

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Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!

Haha well we have to start somewhere!

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andreasjs wrote:

Which bike would you rather own and why?

I had a P5 that I raced when I KQ'd in 2015 and now have a Ventum that I rode in Kona last year.

Key selling points for me were:

• Integrated hydration
• Much easier to work on/pack for travel
• Incredibly solid/high quality frame/build
• Flexibility in the build (I couldn't get enough drop on their standard bars so they credited me and I installed Alpha X bars that fit better
• Customer service (Jimmy/Diaa/Rachel) are still accessible and helpful to this day, 18 months after purchase

Bike looks are subjective...only you can make that assessment.


Wind tunnel tests are a good starting point, but the gold standard is fit and individualized results. I wasn't able to attend the last wind tunnel test with Ventum however I have my fit dialed in and have had some of my best bike splits since making the change.

Thank you for sharing your Ventum experience.

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JImmy Seear
Co-Founder Ventum
http://www.ventumracing.com

buy a used P3, donate the remaining $10000 to charity, go just about as fast, and make the world a slightly better place.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Hello Thomas Gerlach and All,

Thomas writes in part: That is probably the number one selling feature to me on the Morph-bar. It would be so simple to travel with that bar. Would easily make for the simplest pack possible.

I agree ............ the Morf-Tech bars should be very easy to pack ..... just loosen the stem bolts and swing the bars down next to the fork .....

...... plus I can join group rides on my P5 with the http://www.morf-tech.com/ bars in the handle bar position ...... without complaints about my aero bars .... which have disappeared.


While providing answers to some of the P5 travel complexities .... the Morf-Tech bars can also simplify travel for the P5X and the Ventum.


Also when loading my bike into the back of the SUV .... with the bars in the aero position .... no handle bars sticking out for easy loading.


I am thinking modifying the SUV with a home made plywood shelf about 8 inches or so high that I could slide the bike under and still have room for suitcases and other stuff on top. (I am planning to modify the arm pads so they either swivel or are a much narrower design.) Pedals off and a sturdy snap on cover over the rear derailleur completes the setup.


The shelf should have enough room inside for tools, pump, shorts, etc. ..... beside the bike.


Sooooo ......... I could have the P5 in the SUV all the time .... for whenever a ride opportunity came up.

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Damon Rinard was respectful, very forthcoming and a frequent visitor on this forum when he was at Cervelo. Sadly, they seem to have dropped the ball since he left. It is beyond me why any Tri bike manufacturer does not visit this forum regularly.

Just started riding a Ventum a month ago and at first was not sure about the whole design, water bottle on top tube, ride and fit. Can honestly say that the bike has been awesome, solid ride with great handling cross winds are much easier to handle, as a shop owner and mechanic one of the easiest bikes to work on and travel will be a breeze. The top tube hydration is the best, well designed and the magnets to hold the tube work great. The guys at Ventum have been great to work with.

Agreed; total game changer and completely practical. I've been riding my Ventum for almost 2 years and I'm as happy as the day I purchased it... I think that says a lot.

Ventum or TriRig Omni if they had an option for disc brakes.

I like the Lotus-style beam bikes. Getting rid of the downtube makes more sense to me than getting rid of the seat tube, specifically for aerodynamics. Keep the static leading edge in front of the wheel that doesn't steer.

That said, I'd definitely demo at least one bike from each beam geometry before buying -- maybe the Softride/Dimond/Falco/P5x beam bike is more comfortable on the long & bumpy road.

In the meantime, guess I'll keep working on my form & power so that I can justify the expense when I do get a new bike.

I am convinced that slowtwitch forum has very little impact on overall tri-bike purchases...

I think slowtwitch is only important for direct to consumer small manufacturers such as Premeir, Tririg, Ventum. Most people who purchase tri-bikes trust their LBS. This seems true for entry tri-bike purchases to 10k+ bike purchases. Most people don't have a clue what stack and reach mean.

Otherwise, we'll have far better fitters to boot.

I'm curious what SUV you are driving.

Did you need convincing of this?? I am willing to bet the majority of triathletes haven’t even heard of Slowtwitch, let alone let it influence their purchases.

What I don't get is, how do people buy tri bikes from an LBS in the first place? I can only think of two that I've ever been to that ever had any in stock, and one of those was a tri specialty shop.

They haven't. It's always hilarious to see people think bikes were designed for people on Slowtwitch.

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