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Well that was a nice ride spoiled
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TL;DR - I killed a dog and got chased/confronted/threatened by the owner in her car

Mid 70's, low humidity, finally. There's a hill with 600 ft elevation gain less than 5 miles from my house that has 5 different combinations of roads to the top of varying difficulty. Lots of cyclists include this hill in their routes or just ride loops up and down it, which I do frequently.

I went out late this afternoon and went up one side, then started back up from a different direction. This approach climbs part way, then drops 100 ft or so, then back up to the top. Just after I pass through the bottom of the drop in the middle at 35? mph, a very small dog darts out of a yard ahead and to my right. It makes a beeline straight down the road toward me. By the time I see it, it's already within 20 - 30 ft of me. I make one steering input to go from the fog line more toward the middle of the lane, but it makes the same move and I straighten the handlebars knowing the impact is coming. There's a sickening crunch and both wheels go squarely over it, and no yelp or squeal from the dog. Before I have a chance to even think about this, another larger dog is running at me from the same yard. He is running at an angle to me and will be able intercept me at my foot. I give a huge yell which makes startles him and he briefly stops, while I give it everything I have to get past him. I'm going uphill now and slowing rapidly, thinking about how I'm going to deal with it if it continues pursuit. A woman is screaming at the dog from the yard, and I realize in a bit that he has stopped chasing. By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere and I'm not chancing going back.

I carry on up the hill toward the top. I hear a car coming up behind me, which in itself is not unusual, but my spidey sense is tingling big time. It stays behind for half a minute or so, again could be anybody and they're just making sure it's safe to pass. But then I hear the engine rev hard and I cross the fog line onto the shoulder looking for an escape point or at least a soft place to land. The car roars along side me and swings right to run me off the road. I'm able to brake hard and swerve left behind the rear of the car and pass the now stopped car on the left. I woman is shouting out the window that I killed her dog and steps out into the road behind me. I shout back at her that the dog could have killed me and keep on going. She gets back in the car and I hear it coming hard. There's a house on the right with a driveway with a car in it, and I pull into it between the car and a low wall, too narrow a space for her car. She goes straight on, screaming something as she passes.

I stop to catch my breath in the driveway. After a minute, I'm thinking about just getting to the top and heading home, when it dawns on me she hasn't come back down the road to her home. Shit. If she's up there waiting somewhere, the odds aren't so great for me. So I'm pondering when a man comes out of the home whose driveway I'm in and asks if I'm OK. I give some kind of noncommittal answer, and he asks if there's anything he can do. I end up telling him I hit a dog and the owner is chasing me. He pulls out his phone and says I ought to call the police. I haven't even thought of that, and not sure I want to get any further into this, but he says again I ought to call. He's right. I don't want to be forever looking over my shoulder up there, and maybe she doesn't bother to try to distinguish me from other bikers that ride out there and takes revenge on someone else, so I agree. I end up meeting a trooper at the top of the hill and give him all the details.

The trooper says he can find the house from my description of it and the car, and will talk to the woman to make sure she understands that it's her fault the dog was out loose on a public road (a violation of state law) and could have been run over by any passing vehicle. I ask that he also point out that trying to commit vehicular assault isn't really OK either. Oh yeah, that too, he says. He takes my phone # and says he'll let me know the result of the conversation. I will understand if he is asked to attend to more pressing needs, but I kinda hope he has the conversation and she can accept the reality of the situation.

I'd love to read the post she's writing on Facebook or whatever forum she wastes time on.

Stay safe out there. And I'm staying out there, understanding the risks.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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damn.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like your seat is too high.

Could have ended much worse. What a mess.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Wow....

I get that it was unavoidable .... but you didn't even stop to apologize and talk to her???

Whether you think so or not.... animals are like family members to a lot of people.

That dog could have been part of her family for years.

Your attitude frankly comes across as non-caring.

Maybe I'm taking it wrong... and I'm glad ur OK.
Last edited by: Donzo98: Sep 1, 16 18:34
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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All three of you made bad choices apparently. I'm sure hindsight and all, but can you imagine sitting on your front porch watching your dog get run over by a hit and run cyclist? Not excusing her behavior at all, and glad you're ok, but it would have helped if you stopped after you were clear of the 2nd dog.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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You missed the part where another animal comes out to chase him. Stopping not an option.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
Wow....

I get that it was unavoidable .... but you didn't even stop to apologize and talk to her???

You attitude frankly comes across as non-caring.

Still a loose dog back there that had already exhibited hostility. I would have stopped if not for that. Safely clear of the 2nd dog was too far for any communication except screaming. At which she proved to be adept.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
Last edited by: ergopower: Sep 1, 16 18:39
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. But I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

2019 T-Rex Tri Series
Last edited by: mknight84: Sep 1, 16 18:40
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [mknight84] [ In reply to ]
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mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...

Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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I like to think I would have stopped too...but I can totally totally understand the OP's perspective and his judgment about the 2nd dog. Really terrible situation and amazing luck not to go down after hitting the dog.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...

Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

You are smoking the drapes.

OP did exactly what he should have. I'm not staying around to see if I can become a chew toy. Hey, don't want your dog who gets excited and chases things to get run over? Keep it on a leash or in a fenced-in yard.

Oh, and it'll make no difference to his collarbone when he's flipping ass over ankles because some excited dog jumps up at him as he's riding.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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DJRed wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.


You are smoking the drapes. OP did exactly what he should have. I'm not staying around to see if I can become a chew toy. Hey, don't want your dog who gets excited and chases things to get run over? Keep it on a leash or in a fenced-in yard. Oh, and it'll make no difference to his collarbone when he's flipping ass over ankles because some excited dog jumps up at him as he's riding.

Yeah, so the dog is dead and the cyclist is unhurt, seems like a fair deal to me.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Did you mean to put this in pink? While most dogs would exhibit the behavior you mentioned, it's been shown many times there is no shortage of dogs acting like this that do attack. Should he have made more of an effort to stop? Yes. Was his judgement clouded and his body operating in fight or flight? Yes. It's easy to armchair qb it from in front of a computer screen and your not the one who nearly crashed and could have ended up hospitalized followed by an unknown threat from a second dog.

Also, to beat the shit out of someone because you're dog ran out into the road (which could/should be mitigated by an owner via a leash, fence, training, etc). and put them in danger of crashing hard? I understanding loving a pet, but that's some serious anger issues you've got. But I guess if you wouldn't mind going to jail for assault

Matt
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.
You're an idiot like a lot of dog owners. No one can imagine that their precious pooch would ever harm anyone. But none of you understand that a dog interprets a fast-moving human far differently than one that is stationary or moving slowly. This has happened to me several times while running and cycling - a dog comes racing toward me, teeth bared in full-on attack mode. I have been fortunate to have been able to avoid being bitten, but only just. I have been cornered by a dog while running and was lucky enough to find a stout limb on the ground with which to defend myself. That dog had every intent to do me harm, and only desisted when I got a couple of good licks in. I was scared shitless, big German Shepherd.

Every year in our not-so-populous area there is a child mauled and occasionally killed by a dog or dogs who suddenly perceived that child as a threat. There is no way I'm going to take the time and risk to figure out if a particular animal is just posturing or truly intends to attack.

You are welcome to come on out and take your best shot.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Keep your dog on a leash and in your yard and things like this don't happen. It's illegal for your dog to run loose, then on top of that you want to go beat the guys face in? People and their dogs drive me crazy. I have a Doberman and you will not ever find him chasing anybody and if he ran into the street and got hit I wouldn't blame the driver for not stopping. He shouldn't have run into the street. If anything the lady should have apologized to the biker.

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

20 years ago I was dragged off my bike by a loose dog on a country road. Chewed the shit out of me and was coming back around for more. I spent most of the rest of the day in an ER after a passing farmer took me and my bike there in the back of his truck.

I swore that day that I would kill any dog that attacked me again. Until you have really been attacked by a dog you have no idea how terrifying it is.

I own four dogs. Love them like family. If someones dog comes after me on the roads I'm doing whatever it takes to prevent my previous outcome. Like someone else said: don't want a bad outcome for your dog? then don't let it run wild.

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

You're an idiot.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Lucky you hit that dog perfect so not to wreck. I wouldn't have stopped since another dog was coming either and I would have probably yelled at her back for the dog almost killing me too. I don't think you did anything wrong but I was also chased by a pit-bull this week during a run so I am over the pet owners that think they can leave their dogs loose.

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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ergopower wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

You're an idiot like a lot of dog owners. No one can imagine that their precious pooch would ever harm anyone. But none of you understand that a dog interprets a fast-moving human far differently than one that is stationary or moving slowly. This has happened to me several times while running and cycling - a dog comes racing toward me, teeth bared in full-on attack mode. I have been fortunate to have been able to avoid being bitten, but only just. I have been cornered by a dog while running and was lucky enough to find a stout limb on the ground with which to defend myself. That dog had every intent to do me harm, and only desisted when I got a couple of good licks in. I was scared shitless, big German Shepherd.
Every year in our not-so-populous area there is a child mauled and occasionally killed by a dog or dogs who suddenly perceived that child as a threat. There is no way I'm going to take the time and risk to figure out if a particular animal is just posturing or truly intends to attack.
You are welcome to come on out and take your best shot.

I've had dogs chase me plenty of times but have never come close to having any problems. You may be right, maybe I am an idiot, but anyone who hits my dog and does not even stop to apologize, that person is a fucking marked man. I live at the end of a dead-end street so not much chance of your scenario occurring.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Yeah, so the dog is dead and the cyclist is unhurt, seems like a fair deal to me.

It is, actually.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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You could have gone back after the second dog threat had ended.

I agree.... the dog should not have been in the street, but you could have a little compassion for the family with the dead dog.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...

You do realize that 100 feet really isn't that far, right?

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...

Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

You're a fucking psychopath. Or a woman on the rag. Or both. Jesus.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

You're an idiot like a lot of dog owners. No one can imagine that their precious pooch would ever harm anyone. But none of you understand that a dog interprets a fast-moving human far differently than one that is stationary or moving slowly. This has happened to me several times while running and cycling - a dog comes racing toward me, teeth bared in full-on attack mode. I have been fortunate to have been able to avoid being bitten, but only just. I have been cornered by a dog while running and was lucky enough to find a stout limb on the ground with which to defend myself. That dog had every intent to do me harm, and only desisted when I got a couple of good licks in. I was scared shitless, big German Shepherd.
Every year in our not-so-populous area there is a child mauled and occasionally killed by a dog or dogs who suddenly perceived that child as a threat. There is no way I'm going to take the time and risk to figure out if a particular animal is just posturing or truly intends to attack.
You are welcome to come on out and take your best shot.


I've had dogs chase me plenty of times but have never come close to having any problems. You may be right, maybe I am an idiot, but anyone who hits my dog and does not even stop to apologize, that person is a fucking marked man. I live at the end of a dead-end street so not much chance of your scenario occurring.
An apology is generally expected when someone does something wrong. In your example you would be the only one who did anything wrong so it's you that should be apologizing to your family for being careless with your pet. At most you could expect some empathy from the cyclist who ran over your dog but certainly not an apology.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
You could have gone back after the second dog threat had ended.

I agree.... the dog should not have been in the street, but you could have a little compassion for the family with the dead dog.

yes, should have gone back and said, "I feel sorry for your dog that you are an asshole owner that let it run free in the road. But at least it was only a bike and not a truck that squashed it"
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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I woman is shouting out the window that I killed her dog and steps out into the road behind me. I shout back at her that the dog could have killed me and keep on going.


You didn't even stop?


And your complaining that your nice ride was spoiled...Wow




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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [BrianB] [ In reply to ]
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BrianB wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
You could have gone back after the second dog threat had ended.

I agree.... the dog should not have been in the street, but you could have a little compassion for the family with the dead dog.


yes, should have gone back and said, "I feel sorry for your dog that you are an asshole owner that let it run free in the road. But at least it was only a bike and not a truck that squashed it"


What if it was a 5 year old kid that ran out in front of his bike???

Same response???

The kid shouldn't be allowed to run in the street either.
Last edited by: Donzo98: Sep 1, 16 20:03
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
BrianB wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
You could have gone back after the second dog threat had ended.

I agree.... the dog should not have been in the street, but you could have a little compassion for the family with the dead dog.

yes, should have gone back and said, "I feel sorry for your dog that you are an asshole owner that let it run free in the road. But at least it was only a bike and not a truck that squashed it"

What if it was a 5 year old kid that ran out in front of his bike???

Same response???

Logic fail....One is a dog, the other is a human. Not even close to being the same thing.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
I woman is shouting out the window that I killed her dog and steps out into the road behind me. I shout back at her that the dog could have killed me and keep on going.

You didn't even stop?

And your complaining that your nice ride was spoiled...Wow
Shouting out the window of the vehicle with which she tried to run me off the road seconds before. Yes, I made the judgement call that further engagement was not in my best interests.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
What if it was a 5 year old kid that ran out in front of his bike???

Same response???

if it's a kid running at me at 25mph barking and with fangs showing, then yeah, sure, same response.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

You're an idiot like a lot of dog owners. No one can imagine that their precious pooch would ever harm anyone. But none of you understand that a dog interprets a fast-moving human far differently than one that is stationary or moving slowly. This has happened to me several times while running and cycling - a dog comes racing toward me, teeth bared in full-on attack mode. I have been fortunate to have been able to avoid being bitten, but only just. I have been cornered by a dog while running and was lucky enough to find a stout limb on the ground with which to defend myself. That dog had every intent to do me harm, and only desisted when I got a couple of good licks in. I was scared shitless, big German Shepherd.
Every year in our not-so-populous area there is a child mauled and occasionally killed by a dog or dogs who suddenly perceived that child as a threat. There is no way I'm going to take the time and risk to figure out if a particular animal is just posturing or truly intends to attack.
You are welcome to come on out and take your best shot.


I've had dogs chase me plenty of times but have never come close to having any problems. You may be right, maybe I am an idiot, but anyone who hits my dog and does not even stop to apologize, that person is a fucking marked man. I live at the end of a dead-end street so not much chance of your scenario occurring.
An apology is generally expected when someone does something wrong. In your example you would be the only one who did anything wrong so it's you that should be apologizing to your family for being careless with your pet. At most you could expect some empathy from the cyclist who ran over your dog but certainly not an apology.

So, let me get this straight: everyone is saying it is the dog owner's fault b/c she was not obeying the leash law. So, i guess every single one of you never goes over the speed limit, always stops completely before a right-on-red turn, never jaywalks, etc, etc. If it is not obvious, my point is that people break various laws all the time. Now I have no idea what the traffic situation is on that road where this incident happened, but maybe this incident would not have happened if "ergopower" had been going 25 mph instead of 35. Sure, i know it's a downhill but still; let's say he had hit and killed a small child, what would the response been then???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
.... You may be right, maybe I am an idiot, but anyone who hits my dog and does not even stop to apologize, that person is a fucking marked man. I live at the end of a dead-end street so not much chance of your scenario occurring.

What are you, 15? Grow the fuck up. If you're the owner and your dog causes an accident, you're in the wrong. Deal with it. Flex your fingers all you want on the internet, you try this shit in real life and you'll be in your own cage downtown waiting for the judge on Monday. Learn the law and stop being an asshat.

Source - dog owner and trainer.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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If I break the law by speeding, I accept the consequences of my actions should a cop pull me over. Seems fair for the dog owner to do the same....YMMV.

And stop with the child analogy. 1) A human life is not equal to a dog's life. Harsh, but true. 2) there aren't leash laws on children. But if it were a child that ran out in front of him, guess what....still the woman's fault.

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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
[So, let me get this straight: everyone is saying it is the dog owner's fault b/c she was not obeying the leash law. So, i guess every single one of you never goes over the speed limit, always stops completely before a right-on-red turn, never jaywalks, etc, etc. If it is not obvious, my point is that people break various laws all the time. Now I have no idea what the traffic situation is on that road where this incident happened, but maybe this incident would not have happened if "ergopower" had been going 25 mph instead of 35. Sure, i know it's a downhill but still; let's say he had hit and killed a small child, what would the response been then???
Regarding child vs dog, I was faced with this situation 5 or so years ago. I was riding with friends down a cycle & foot path through a park. I was slightly off the back, and a small child broke free from his mom and ran across the path right in front of me. I yanked on the bars and grabbed the brakes and missed him. I low-sided, but luckily already in the grass so I was back up quickly with no damage. It would always be my responsibility to avoid hurting another person if I am able.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.
You'd have beaten him up for an incident in which you as the owner played have all (possibly) or most (certainly) responsibility? Dang.

Pun_Times wrote:
Did you mean to put this in pink? While most dogs would exhibit the behavior you mentioned, it's been shown many times there is no shortage of dogs acting like this that do attack. Should he have made more of an effort to stop? Yes. Was his judgement clouded and his body operating in fight or flight? Yes. It's easy to armchair qb it from in front of a computer screen and your not the one who nearly crashed and could have ended up hospitalized followed by an unknown threat from a second dog.

Also, to beat the shit out of someone because you're dog ran out into the road (which could/should be mitigated by an owner via a leash, fence, training, etc). and put them in danger of crashing hard? I understanding loving a pet, but that's some serious anger issues you've got. But I guess if you wouldn't mind going to jail for assault
Well said.

I'll add that the second dog running out after the OP shows that owner is a terrible owner in terms of truly looking after her dogs' welfare.


http://www.jt10000.com/
Last edited by: jt10000: Sep 1, 16 20:50
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

It's psychos like you that make me inclined to not stop if I ever hit a dog. If dog owners are going to respond like this, I suppose it answers a question our group has had regarding if we should conceal carry while riding since there is an aggressive dog on our route.

We had a local dog slam into our back fence, break through, and maul one of our dogs to death. I have absolutely no inclination to wait for a very vocal dog chasing me, much less a screaming owner who probably isn't thinking straight either to see if either is going to be hostile. By the time she hops in the car and chances, the answer is very clear that she is being hostile.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
So, let me get this straight: everyone is saying it is the dog owner's fault b/c she was not obeying the leash law. So, i guess every single one of you never goes over the speed limit, always stops completely before a right-on-red turn, never jaywalks, etc, etc. If it is not obvious, my point is that people break various laws all the time. Now I have no idea what the traffic situation is on that road where this incident happened, but maybe this incident would not have happened if "ergopower" had been going 25 mph instead of 35. Sure, i know it's a downhill but still; let's say he had hit and killed a small child, what would the response been then???
I don't get what point you're trying to make here. The dog owner is breaking the law by letting her dogs off her property and onto a public road, but maybe at some point I and every other citizen also broke laws so she shouldn't have to take responsibility for what happened? The speed limit on this low-traffic road is 35 MPH, but had I walked down the hill the accident would have been avoided.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Traket92x] [ In reply to ]
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The OP did what ANY of us would have done if there was a second dog trailing behind. And I would wager if the owner pulling up behind and in front of our bike while screaming, any of us would have been pretty defensive no matter how bad we might have felt about striking an animal (and I've owned 2 dogs).

Its not a great situation to be in but to try to spin it into "what if" scenarios is ridiculous.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
If I break the law by speeding, I accept the consequences of my actions should a cop pull me over. Seems fair for the dog owner to do the same....YMMV.

And stop with the child analogy. 1) A human life is not equal to a dog's life. Harsh, but true. 2) there aren't leash laws on children. But if it were a child that ran out in front of him, guess what....still the woman's fault.


Yeah... the woman's fault for sure. Best to just keep riding then also. What a non-compassionate asshole. WOW!!!
Last edited by: Donzo98: Sep 1, 16 21:13
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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ergopower wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
So, let me get this straight: everyone is saying it is the dog owner's fault b/c she was not obeying the leash law. So, i guess every single one of you never goes over the speed limit, always stops completely before a right-on-red turn, never jaywalks, etc, etc. If it is not obvious, my point is that people break various laws all the time. Now I have no idea what the traffic situation is on that road where this incident happened, but maybe this incident would not have happened if "ergopower" had been going 25 mph instead of 35. Sure, i know it's a downhill but still; let's say he had hit and killed a small child, what would the response been then???

I don't get what point you're trying to make here. The dog owner is breaking the law by letting her dogs off her property and onto a public road, but maybe at some point I and every other citizen also broke laws so she shouldn't have to take responsibility for what happened? The speed limit on this low-traffic road is 35 MPH, but had I walked down the hill the accident would have been avoided.

my point is that she broke a minor law similar to what most people break every day. certainly, she is responsible for her dog's running out in the street but your extremely callous manner of handling this incident is what gets my temper up. at the very least, if you ride this same road again, maybe ride the brakes on the downhills? i'll bet if you'd been going 20-25 mph, you could've avoided running over the very small dog.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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I'm actually calling BS on this......the OP hit a dog (I don't care the size) square, kills it at 20plus and kept a it up right? Yea right......BS.

Post a video, copy of the police report or pics of blood on your bike or this whole story is TOTAL BS.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Traket92x] [ In reply to ]
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Traket92x wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.


It's psychos like you that make me inclined to not stop if I ever hit a dog. If dog owners are going to respond like this, I suppose it answers a question our group has had regarding if we should conceal carry while riding since there is an aggressive dog on our route.
We had a local dog slam into our back fence, break through, and maul one of our dogs to death. I have absolutely no inclination to wait for a very vocal dog chasing me, much less a screaming owner who probably isn't thinking straight either to see if either is going to be hostile. By the time she hops in the car and chases, the answer is very clear that she is being hostile.

Apparently my experience with dogs has been very different from most of you. I've been cycling and running for about 15 yrs on a boulevard which has a large park next to it. The blvd is a 5.2 mi loop and the safest place to ride in my area. The large park is about 3.0 miles on its perimeter. It is not a dog park per se but, acc to those who've lived there their whole lives, it has been standard practice to let dogs run free in this park, since at least 1980. Every 6 months or so, Animal Control will come off and on for a week or two but then they let us be. In running with my dogs through this park, I've only ever encountered 2 hostile dogs out of at least 5000 or so dogs in our 15 yrs, and both of those dogs were actually on leashes. I've always had Golden Retrievers and Golden mixes so all of my dogs have been very gentle.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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sorry eric, you are out of line on this one.
If your dog runs out into traffic or actually harms some human, it its always the dogs/owners fault.

sorry to break it to you:

even if the right thing would have been for the rider to stop and apologize (regardless of the perceived threat from the other dog), what you advocate doing after your dog broke human etiquette is criminal and wrong.

I own a dog and I have my hands full with (shelter rescue), but it is fact that humans and human law come first, unless some day dogs should run this planet...



ericmulk wrote:
Traket92x wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.


It's psychos like you that make me inclined to not stop if I ever hit a dog. If dog owners are going to respond like this, I suppose it answers a question our group has had regarding if we should conceal carry while riding since there is an aggressive dog on our route.
We had a local dog slam into our back fence, break through, and maul one of our dogs to death. I have absolutely no inclination to wait for a very vocal dog chasing me, much less a screaming owner who probably isn't thinking straight either to see if either is going to be hostile. By the time she hops in the car and chases, the answer is very clear that she is being hostile.


Apparently my experience with dogs has been very different from most of you. I've been cycling and running for about 15 yrs on a boulevard which has a large park next to it. The blvd is a 5.2 mi loop and the safest place to ride in my area. The large park is about 3.0 miles on its perimeter. It is not a dog park per se but, acc to those who've lived there their whole lives, it has been standard practice to let dogs run free in this park, since at least 1980. Every 6 months or so, Animal Control will come off and on for a week or two but then they let us be. In running with my dogs through this park, I've only ever encountered 2 hostile dogs out of at least 5000 or so dogs in our 15 yrs, and both of those dogs were actually on leashes. I've always had Golden Retrievers and Golden mixes so all of my dogs have been very gentle.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:

my point is that she broke a minor law similar to what most people break every day. certainly, she is responsible for her dog's running out in the street but your extremely callous manner of handling this incident is what gets my temper up. at the very least, if you ride this same road again, maybe ride the brakes on the downhills? i'll bet if you'd been going 20-25 mph, you could've avoided running over the very small dog.

Should we all start riding our breaks on any downhill in which there are any properties on which dogs might reside?

Also, please explain why riding at 20-25mph would have saved the dogs life. Show math please. As you are blaming him, WAGs don't count.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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anyone here who says you should have stopped, or be sorry is a complete moron.

i have a dog, he's sitting right next to me. i also had my first dog murdered when i was 5 (inner city). this doesn't mean that when my dog dies it's someone else's fault.

you didn't do anything wrong. i would have done the same. it's not your job to be sure if a dog is going to attack you or not. dogs can be rabid, it only takes transfer of saliva to your bloodstream. not worth it.

the only thing you did wrong was not threaten to beat the pulp out of the lady for harassment with her vehicle. riding with a gopro has it's pros...

so a little lap dog died. who gives a rear (last i checked people are being slaughtered in syria). if she cared about her dog that much, she would have had better voice control, or a leash on it. simple as that.

i walk my dog around the neighborhood without a leash. i carry the leash on me. i completely understand that there is the slightest of chances that he could not obey just once and be dead. 11 years of 2-3 walks a day (we used to run in the city leash less when i lived in boston for 6 years), without a single incident (ok, i lied, one time he stopped as we were crossing to drop a deuce in framingham)....

train your dogs, have control of your dogs, and they won't go chasing after cyclist and get killed.

if anything, that owner should be punished.

go on with your life guilt free. you did nothing wrong. in fact, be happy you didn't go over your handlebar and then get mauled by the other dog.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...

Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

Craziest post on here in a long time. I bet you've gone down in the estimation of a lot of folk on here with that.

If there hadn't been a 2nd dog, I'm quite sure the OP or any other reasonable human would have stopped and expressed sadness. But that doesn't make it his fault that somebody doesn't know how to control their animal properly.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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This whole thread is a prime example of the whole dog-owners vs non-dog-owners debate. A lot of dog owners seem to think that their dogs are never going to do anyone any harm and can't recognise the fact that it's unsociable and/or dangerous to have them running amok. I'm sure he/she is just a darling when they're with you, but I don't want some animal with unknown intentions running at me. Even if it's not being aggressive, there's still a chance it'll do something stupid and take me down as proven here.

It's exactly the same as the motorists vs cyclists debate; a lot of motorists just don't realise how dangerous and/or unsociable it is to pass a cyclist within a foot at 60+ mph and get all defensive when you point it out. If you take the time to see it from the other person's point-of-view you wouldn't do it in the first place.

Of course it's sad that the little dog got squashed, but letting it run out in the road is just negligent. Having said that, I probably would have stopped once I thought the immediate danger had passed and especially once she caught up in the car. Just carrying on your ride is pretty cold!
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [aw3] [ In reply to ]
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This whole thread is a prime example of the whole dog-owners vs non-dog-owners debate.
---
Um, did you miss the part(s) where a bunch of dog owners are chiming in stating that the OP did the right thing and that the dog owner in this case is wrong and at fault? This "whole thread" is nothing more than an OP getting something off his chest, receiving support, having 1-2 dog owners be the guy you want them to be, and the rest of the thread (including the dog owners) bashing them for it.






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a dog person, lots of dogs amongst my family and friends, including both pets and farm/working dogs, have always loved them. My experience is largely similar to yours, but I would caveat that my perception of a dog's behaviour is going to be very different to somebody who hasn't been around dogs all their life. Dogs off the leash in parks are also far less likely to be hostile than dogs on farms or out in the countryside.

My take on this is:
- personally I would have stopped when the 2nd dog stopped and tried to calm the situation down. A dog (particularly a farm/country dog) is quite likely to nip or worse in the excitement of chasing a moving target, but having stopped the chase it's extremely unlikely to then attack a full-grown man who is standing his ground, and if it tries then you should be able to repel it fairly easily with a kick or by putting the bike between you and it. However, I can understand that not everybody sees dogs the way I do, and that with adrenaline pumping through your veins that cycling off at top speed is an understandable response.
- I think what most people in this thread are missing is that the owner was quite possibly close to temporary insanity. This wasn't a considered response, it was the visceral response of somebody who may not have even seen the incident but just ran out and saw her dog dead on the ground and the cyclist taking off into the distance. I'm not in any way equating the life of a dog with the life of a child, but in terms of the immediate emotional response triggered in an owner/parent by seeing one killed, it's not far off. It's entirely possible that she's a basically decent person who was out of her mind
- if you're saying that your emotional response to seeing your dog killed would have been to chase down the cyclist and beat him up, I get that. If you're saying you'd have done the same thing as a considered response after reflecting on the fact that the dog was running loose on the road and that the rider was just trying to escape your second dog, then I have to say you're totally wrong. This was an unfortunate accident, nobody deserves to have their face rearranged for doing something they couldn't have avoided, or for their immediate fight or flight response to a charged and highly stressful situation.

I do think the OP's time would have been better spent on writing a letter to the owner explaining what happened from his perspective and expressing his sorrow for the loss of her dog, rather than posting a somewhat callous thread about it on here. Might have had a more positive outcome in terms of both helping her to get closure, and getting her to see her actions from somebody else's perspective and being a more responsible owner and driver in future.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Traket92x wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.


It's psychos like you that make me inclined to not stop if I ever hit a dog. If dog owners are going to respond like this, I suppose it answers a question our group has had regarding if we should conceal carry while riding since there is an aggressive dog on our route.
We had a local dog slam into our back fence, break through, and maul one of our dogs to death. I have absolutely no inclination to wait for a very vocal dog chasing me, much less a screaming owner who probably isn't thinking straight either to see if either is going to be hostile. By the time she hops in the car and chases, the answer is very clear that she is being hostile.

Apparently my experience with dogs has been very different from most of you. I've been cycling and running for about 15 yrs on a boulevard which has a large park next to it. The blvd is a 5.2 mi loop and the safest place to ride in my area. The large park is about 3.0 miles on its perimeter. It is not a dog park per se but, acc to those who've lived there their whole lives, it has been standard practice to let dogs run free in this park, since at least 1980. Every 6 months or so, Animal Control will come off and on for a week or two but then they let us be. In running with my dogs through this park, I've only ever encountered 2 hostile dogs out of at least 5000 or so dogs in our 15 yrs, and both of those dogs were actually on leashes. I've always had Golden Retrievers and Golden mixes so all of my dogs have been very gentle.

I got bit on Memorial day weekend by a retriever mix. By a park I run by every week. Jackass took his dog and rode off, so I got to get the rabies shots.

2 years ago I got chased by a dog on a busy road. It made it halfway through the street and got nailed by a car.

I have two dogs, and the situations will never happen with mine because they are always leashed. Way too many people overestimate how much control they have on their dog.


Btw, you're an idiot. I would have have rode on as well. The lady in the story didn't seem to give a shit about her dogs if she let's them run free, so why should he?
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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The only thing to fear in a dog is its owner. As you appear to demonstrate.

29 years and counting
Last edited by: Jorgan: Sep 2, 16 5:55
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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....so you see a dog running loose in front of you and all you do is stirring a little into the lane, instead of breaking hard??? I don't get it. You were lucky you have stayed on your bike.


I don't understand why there is such a war going on on the streets between cyclists and dog owners. If both would relax a little a lot of fighting could be avoided/prevented.


Coming back to the point with the small child. Would you pass an unattended toddler with 35 mph?? No, for sure not. But dogs are expected to run in straight lines?

Would you stop and show some empathy if you would have run over this toddler? Yes

When I read your subject line, I expected to read something funny that happened to you on your ride.....it is very inappropriate to say the least.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Who said life was fair? There are consequences for our decisions. Irresponsible dog owner lets her dog run free breaking the law. Dog dies because of her decision. Not the bikers fault.

Of course the biker feels bad for killing the dog but not his fault. I wouldn't have stopped either dumbass lady may have had a gun.

You making someones face hamburger wouldn't go over well either, make a bad situation worse.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Again consequences for our decisions. You speed and don't get in an accident; no consequences. Speed cause an accident and someone is injured because of your bad decision there are consequences. The lady let her dog run free against the law for who knows how long and got away with it. She was complacent as most of us are with cellphones, texting and driving etc. But cause a problem because of bad decisions and the hammer drops. In this case the hammer was the dog's death. (A death that I regret and even mourn but realize it is not the bicyclists fault.)
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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So you didn't even brake to attempt to avoid the dog, and subsequently killed it.... Then you didn't have the decency to stop once you were clear of the second dog. And you then blamed the woman, who just watched you kill her dog, screaming at her while cycling away.

You're a f*cking dick.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Well that was a nice ride spoiled

The title sets the tone for the post.

No coasting in running and no crying in baseball
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

Wow. You are starting to sound like the people who run cyclists off the road because they belong on the sidewalk.

The cyclist did not kill this dog. The owner did, by not keeping the dog restrained according to state law. Dogs are wild animals. You cannot 100% train them to stay where they belong. They do not understand properly lines, roads, approaching vehicles, etc. If you do not fence or leash them, they will eventually wander somewhere where they do not belong.
The story ends with a dead dog. But if the rider stopped, the story could end with a dog attack. There is no way to read a unknown dog's state of mind when they are running and barking. Best thing to do is to separate yourself from the situation.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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WOW!!!!! Lots of armchair quarterbacks lurking around. Unless you were there and experienced the exact same circumstances its really hard to say what you'd do.

I'm sorry it happened to you, sucks the dog was killed but good fortune that you weren't hurt and didn't have any more of confrontation with the dog owner/motorist.

I've not hit a dog with my bike but have hit two with cars unfortunately - a beagle and a rottweiler. Both were obviously running at large off of their property. Both owners were very upset and sad that their dogs were hit, one killed instantly and the other ran off virtually unscathed - the beagle oddly enough. I felt horrible that it had happened but..............

I've owned and trained working retrievers most of my adult life. I love all of my dogs but I don't expect others to love all of my dogs and please don't expect me to love all of your dogs, especially if they don't behave appropriately and aren't well cared for. Obedience training is easy to do and only costs a little bit of your time and will save your dogs life at some point.

Simply put, if you allow your dogs to run out of your control how much do you really care about them? If your putting your dogs in a position to get hit on the road do you really have their best in mind? If both dogs are chasing a car or a bike it's not too much of a stretch that it's a habit, a habit that can be broken if you want it to stop as opposed to being broken when the dog is killed by a car or a bike. We as dog owners are typically lazy and expect others to tolerate the bad habits of our loved pets and don't see their bad habits the same as others see them.

Did the trooper ever get back to you with the results of the conversation.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

If you ever have the misfortune of being involved in a violent encounter, you will revisit this post. And it will be used to cast you as the aggressor.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [uw234] [ In reply to ]
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I'm replying to a number of people here on more than one topic, not just this post
uw234 wrote:
....so you see a dog running loose in front of you and all you do is stirring a little into the lane, instead of breaking hard??? I don't get it. You were lucky you have stayed on your bike. ...But dogs are expected to run in straight lines?

Beachboy wrote:
I'm actually calling BS on this......the OP hit a dog (I don't care the size) square, kills it at 20plus and kept a it up right? Yea right......BS.
Post a video, copy of the police report or pics of blood on your bike or this whole story is TOTAL BS.

I was very damned lucky. I was sure I was going down, but all the force was vertical. From the moment I saw the dog dart out to the moment of impact couldn't have been much more than a single second. What I couldn't comprehend was that the dog would come straight down the road toward me. Dogs never do that in my experience; they always want to come at you from the side or rear, and on first sight I was expecting this one to do the same. Not to mention that it was a suicidal trajectory, what animal does that? Instinct was keep it as straight as possible because the dog will make a last millisecond move but in any case my balance is the best it can be. And being on the brakes when I hit is a sure way to go over the bars. Like I said, damned lucky.
cartsman wrote:
- personally I would have stopped when the 2nd dog stopped and tried to calm the situation down. A dog (particularly a farm/country dog) is quite likely to nip or worse in the excitement of chasing a moving target, but having stopped the chase it's extremely unlikely to then attack a full-grown man who is standing his ground, and if it tries then you should be able to repel it fairly easily with a kick or by putting the bike between you and it.

Here's the thing with the 2nd dog - it was on an intercept course and not barking, which in my experience means they're not trying to frighten, they're intending to attack. The only defense I had at that moment was to roar at the dog, which had the desired effect - it was startled and broke stride. But by doing so, I have very firmly established myself as an aggressor to the dog, and there's no way I would allow it get anywhere near me when all of its defensive instincts are engaged.
ericmulk wrote:
i'll bet if you'd been going 20-25 mph, you could've avoided running over the very small dog... at the very least, if you ride this same road again, maybe ride the brakes on the downhills?

Like the rest of your responses, this is idiotic. On a rural road you ride frequently, you ride your brakes down hills on the off chance something very unusual might happen? I have been up that climb hundreds of times, never saw a loose dog on that road. If I see a loose dog and it makes a run at me, I remember for next time, but I also call the Animal Control Bureau and report it.
uw234 wrote:
When I read your subject line, I expected to read something funny that happened to you on your ride.....it is very inappropriate to say the least.

cartsman wrote:
rather than posting a somewhat callous thread about it on here

aw3 wrote:
Just carrying on your ride is pretty cold!

ericmulk wrote:
your extremely callous manner of handling this incident is what gets my temper up

aw3 wrote:
I probably would have stopped once I thought the immediate danger had passed and especially once she caught up in the car

I'm not sure why I made the original post. Certainly I was still rattled, part of it was to pass on a precautionary message. But not about the dogs, I wouldn't expect that scenario to be repeated in a thousand years. What was on my mind was that another human being made 2 attempts to attack me with a motor vehicle. In the conversation with the state trooper and the large majority of replies in this thread, that didn't get a mention, it focused on the dogs. In the space of 2 minutes or so, I had to react to 4 potential or actual threats, and the 2 from the driver/owner still have me pretty disturbed. Once she caught up in the car, I feared for my life, which was well-founded as she made another run at me when I didn't stop. Calloused and cold? Damn. Extremely thankful to be unharmed and still shaken by it.

If I hear back from the trooper that she was reasonable when he talked to her, I will ask him if he thinks it advisable for me to stop by. If he feels it's OK, I will do so. If she went on some kind of rant with him, I guess I'll avoid that road and warn the local cycling community about what happened.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
Last edited by: ergopower: Sep 2, 16 6:36
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [suahoi] [ In reply to ]
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suahoi wrote:
So you didn't even brake to attempt to avoid the dog, and subsequently killed it.... Then you didn't have the decency to stop once you were clear of the second dog. And you then blamed the woman, who just watched you kill her dog, screaming at her while cycling away.

You're a f*cking dick.
See my replies in the post above. I'd love to see how you would have handled the exact same situation.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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You sir, have more control than I. I would most certainly be stopping by. First to give that lady an earful and then to have her arrested.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
BrianB wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
You could have gone back after the second dog threat had ended.

I agree.... the dog should not have been in the street, but you could have a little compassion for the family with the dead dog.


yes, should have gone back and said, "I feel sorry for your dog that you are an asshole owner that let it run free in the road. But at least it was only a bike and not a truck that squashed it"


What if it was a 5 year old kid that ran out in front of his bike???

Same response???

The kid shouldn't be allowed to run in the street either.

Funny timing on this. I'm at the track on Tuesday night running quarter repeats when a boy (about 5) decides he's going to race me. He starts running and swerving in front of me slowing me down. His parents recognize this, call his name, and the kid comes to a dead stop right in front of me. I do moves from the Matrix and somehow avoid running him over and going down myself. Parents yell an apology. I flash a "thumbs up" as I run on my way.

At no point did the kid ever jump at me, charge me, or try to bite me. Nor, was I ever in fear that would happen.

So, yeah, they are different.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.



Clearly you have never been chased by a dog while on a bike. Off the top of my head, I know at least four people who have been bitten by dogs while biking. If a dog is chasing me, I'm not stopping for any reason, even if I just ran over your mother.

~Kevin
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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DJRed wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
BrianB wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
You could have gone back after the second dog threat had ended.

I agree.... the dog should not have been in the street, but you could have a little compassion for the family with the dead dog.


yes, should have gone back and said, "I feel sorry for your dog that you are an asshole owner that let it run free in the road. But at least it was only a bike and not a truck that squashed it"


What if it was a 5 year old kid that ran out in front of his bike???

Same response???

The kid shouldn't be allowed to run in the street either.


Funny timing on this. I'm at the track on Tuesday night running quarter repeats when a boy (about 5) decides he's going to race me. He starts running and swerving in front of me slowing me down. His parents recognize this, call his name, and the kid comes to a dead stop right in front of me. I do moves from the Matrix and somehow avoid running him over and going down myself. Parents yell an apology. I flash a "thumbs up" as I run on my way.

At no point did the kid ever jump at me, charge me, or try to bite me. Nor, was I ever in fear that would happen.

So, yeah, they are different.

Yeah... way different. What if you hit the kid and hurt or killed him?

My point is... that even though it was the kids/parents fault... you would have certainly stopped and had apologized.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Glad you are alright. So many ways that could have gone badly for you. I've been a dog owner, been bitten by other dogs (off the bike), and been chased while riding. That shit is scary. Anyone that says you are in the wrong is nuts. I'm sure the owner was emotional over losing her pet, & would have understood her being upset and chasing you down to say something to you in the heat of the moment, but her actions were out of control when she tried to run you off the road.

How soon are you planning on riding that route again?
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
So, let me get this straight: everyone is saying it is the dog owner's fault b/c she was not obeying the leash law. So, i guess every single one of you never goes over the speed limit, always stops completely before a right-on-red turn, never jaywalks, etc, etc. If it is not obvious, my point is that people break various laws all the time. Now I have no idea what the traffic situation is on that road where this incident happened, but maybe this incident would not have happened if "ergopower" had been going 25 mph instead of 35. Sure, i know it's a downhill but still; let's say he had hit and killed a small child, what would the response been then???

Sure, everyone probably breaks the law at some point, but us rational people don't then threaten to beat the face in of someone we had a collision with WHILE WE WERE BREAKING THE LAW!
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.
Well, I've been chased and bitten several times, including when stopped. I would have kept going too, and I'm a big animal lover and have pets. Oh, and I love internet tough guys like yourself. What a douche bag response, obviously you've never been chased by a big angry dog. I have 4 holes in my left arm to this day from one to remind me, and any dog that confronts me now will get a face full of pepper spray.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Beachboy] [ In reply to ]
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Beachboy wrote:
I'm actually calling BS on this......the OP hit a dog (I don't care the size) square, kills it at 20plus and kept a it up right? Yea right......BS.

Post a video, copy of the police report or pics of blood on your bike or this whole story is TOTAL BS.

I've hit a woodchuck dead on during a ride and kept it upright. A little yappy, lap dog? Pffft....easy.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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I killed a dog once, ran out onto a country road with a 45 mph speed limit and I was driving a truck. I had already hit it by the time I was able to respond and touch the brakes. I continued up the road about a quarter mile, stopped and had a quick panic attack, then went back to go see the owner and apologize. The owner was obviously distraught, but recognized there was nothing I could have done to avoid it, and thanked me for coming back rather than just running off.

So in your scenario, I think I would have had the same initial response (get away from the chasing dog), but then had the decency to stop and talk to the owner (and apologize, even if it wasn't my fault).

This is the same as a car hitting a cyclist when the cyclist is in the wrong, and then fleeing the scene. Even if it's not your fault, the decent human thing would be to check on him and apologize.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [wbattaile] [ In reply to ]
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wbattaile wrote:
All three of you made bad choices apparently. I'm sure hindsight and all, but can you imagine sitting on your front porch watching your dog get run over by a hit and run cyclist? Not excusing her behavior at all, and glad you're ok, but it would have helped if you stopped after you were clear of the 2nd dog.

This is the response that should have happened.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [suahoi] [ In reply to ]
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suahoi wrote:
This is the same as a car hitting a cyclist when the cyclist is in the wrong, and then fleeing the scene. Even if it's not your fault, the decent human thing would be to check on him and apologize.

Its only the same if there is another cyclist with a weapon chasing you. Once you drop that cyclist, their friend in a SAG wagon starts chasing you and trying to knock your car off the road. In that case, I keep driving until absolutely safe and call police. Based on owner's response, I would have avoided a conversation with her as well.

Yes, the decent thing would have been to stop, but not if doing so puts you in danger.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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no kidding, he completely destroyed his rep on slowtwitch with one post. I'll never read one of his posts the same again. wow
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

You and what army? You're a triathlete remember? I doubt you could beat an egg tough guy.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [suahoi] [ In reply to ]
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suahoi wrote:


So in your scenario, I think I would have had the same initial response (get away from the chasing dog), but then had the decency to stop and talk to the owner (and apologize, even if it wasn't my fault).

This is the same as a car hitting a cyclist when the cyclist is in the wrong, and then fleeing the scene. Even if it's not your fault, the decent human thing would be to check on him and apologize.

Can't believe people are still advocating that he should have stopped to talk to THE CRAZY LADY WHO TWICE TRIED TO HIT HIM WITH HER CAR! OP is right - people are totally missing that part.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [suahoi] [ In reply to ]
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suahoi wrote:
So in your scenario, I think I would have had the same initial response (get away from the chasing dog), but then had the decency to stop and talk to the owner (and apologize, even if it wasn't my fault).
wbattaile wrote:
All three of you made bad choices apparently. I'm sure hindsight and all, but can you imagine sitting on your front porch watching your dog get run over by a hit and run cyclist? Not excusing her behavior at all, and glad you're ok, but it would have helped if you stopped after you were clear of the 2nd dog.
The 2nd dog is still loose, and is between me and the owner. And I have just screamed at the dog in order to stave off its attack, so now every threat instinct in this animal is aroused. You would really take the chance of a second encounter with this dog to talk to the owner? Not a chance in hell I'm doing that.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [mcclelland] [ In reply to ]
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mcclelland wrote:
suahoi wrote:


So in your scenario, I think I would have had the same initial response (get away from the chasing dog), but then had the decency to stop and talk to the owner (and apologize, even if it wasn't my fault).

This is the same as a car hitting a cyclist when the cyclist is in the wrong, and then fleeing the scene. Even if it's not your fault, the decent human thing would be to check on him and apologize.


Can't believe people are still advocating that he should have stopped to talk to THE CRAZY LADY WHO TWICE TRIED TO HIT HIM WITH HER CAR! OP is right - people are totally missing that part.

Yeah not having the dogs leashed is her fault. At the craziness of the moment it was good you were able to find a place to stop and not get run over and had someone else call the cops. Hopefully the owner learns from this otherwise she'll have a few more doggie accidents to go through in the future...
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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you are right...chasing a cyclist in a car is a crime - Hopefully the police will take care about it.

Running over a dog is an unfortunate accident. You don't have to blame anyone for it but the dog.

It's the escalation of events that I am worried about. One thing leads to another and the next time when I encounter a dog or a cyclist or anyone, they won't relax but start a fight right away because they have heard so many horrible stories....

Lucky me, I have never been attacked or chased neither by dogs or people - hope it stays that way.

take care and keep riding.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [suahoi] [ In reply to ]
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suahoi wrote:
I killed a dog once, ran out onto a country road with a 45 mph speed limit and I was driving a truck. I had already hit it by the time I was able to respond and touch the brakes. I continued up the road about a quarter mile, stopped and had a quick panic attack, then went back to go see the owner and apologize. The owner was obviously distraught, but recognized there was nothing I could have done to avoid it, and thanked me for coming back rather than just running off.

So in your scenario, I think I would have had the same initial response (get away from the chasing dog), but then had the decency to stop and talk to the owner (and apologize, even if it wasn't my fault).

This is the same as a car hitting a cyclist when the cyclist is in the wrong, and then fleeing the scene. Even if it's not your fault, the decent human thing would be to check on him and apologize.

The guy was riding his bike, just run over one dog that attacked him, escaped from another dog that was attacking him, and you think the appropriate action was to go back to the residence (still on his bike, mind you) and apologize? I guess you think that the cyclist should have returned to apologize if he saw the owner coming out with a shotgun, too? I mean, regardless of the threat to the cyclist, it would be the decent thing to go back towards that threat and apologize.

Not even close to a car hitting a cyclist and fleeing.

The responses on this thread are unbelievable.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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You ever been bitten by a dog? I have. My training partners have. Yes, while riding their bike. Don't be an ass making threats until you have had a dog latched onto your calf.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [BrianB] [ In reply to ]
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BrianB wrote:
ericmulk wrote:

Yeah, so the dog is dead and the cyclist is unhurt, seems like a fair deal to me.


It is, actually.


The dog disagrees. It's owner needs to be held accountable for not containing/ controling the dog.
Last edited by: t3c9: Sep 2, 16 8:16
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Tri3] [ In reply to ]
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Tri3 wrote:
Quote:
Well that was a nice ride spoiled

The title sets the tone for the post.
I assume the op was making a play on the common phrase about golf.
Golf is a way to spoil a nice walk
Golf is a good walk spoiled
Etc
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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" A woman is screaming at the dog from the yard, and I realize in a bit that he has stopped chasing. By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I"

Did you consider maybe waiting there once you knew you weren't in danger?

A few years back I was running at night, a dog came chasing after me from across the road, a car coming up behind me ran over the dog and kept going. It never occurred to me to not immediately go find the owner of the dog and try to help. It didn't matter at all that 2 seconds earlier their dog was getting ready to bite me.

If you hit someone's dog you stop, it isn't a hard concept. You weren't in danger, and from her perspective you come across as a complete asshole who kills a dog and never pauses, even if you thought you had good reason to not stop.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [uw234] [ In reply to ]
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Wrong. Blame the owner.
There are no bad dogs, just bad owners.


uw234 wrote:
you are right...chasing a cyclist in a car is a crime - Hopefully the police will take care about it.

Running over a dog is an unfortunate accident. You don't have to blame anyone for it but the dog.

It's the escalation of events that I am worried about. One thing leads to another and the next time when I encounter a dog or a cyclist or anyone, they won't relax but start a fight right away because they have heard so many horrible stories....

Lucky me, I have never been attacked or chased neither by dogs or people - hope it stays that way.

take care and keep riding.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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This whole thread reflects the general social media response to news reports of split-second decisions made by those in the real world (e.g. law enforcement, military, etc.).

Such as, an event happens in which a major, perhaps life-altering decision in made in a split-second. Nerves . . . fear . . . adrenaline . . . safety . . . environment, all playing a role. The media then gets ahold of and reports the events of the situation. Finally, after sitting back and developing a response over time, thousands/millions of internet users and pundits start posting/talking about what should have been done, and what "they" would have done (had, of course, the situation played out over a significant amount of time rather than a split-second).
Last edited by: kiremma: Sep 2, 16 8:48
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [kiremma] [ In reply to ]
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kiremma wrote:
This whole thread reflects the general social media response to news reports of split-second decisions made by those in the real world (e.g. law enforcement, military, etc.).


Such as, an event happens in which a major, perhaps life-altering decision in made in a split-second. Nerves . . . fear . . . adrenaline . . . safety . . . environment, all playing a role. The media then gets ahold of and reports the events of the situation. Finally, after sitting back and developing a response over time, thousands/millions of internet users and pundits start posting/talking about what should have been done, and what "they" would have done (had, of course, the situation played out over a significant amount of time rather than a split-second).
It's interesting that in those events, when the person looks a certain way, one type of thing ("life-altering") seems more likely to happen than if they look another way. So the second-guessing is legit - if law enforcement can respond to, say, "green" people one way, it seems entirely appropriate to ask why they respond to "purple" people another way.

Plus, in some other countries, both purple and green people have that sort of life-altering thing happen a lot less often. So it seems entirely legit to ask why police in the US tend to "alter lives" a lot more than, say, police in the UK or Germany.

And lastly, police are supposedly trained for and know they'll be in stressful situations. The rest of us...not so much. But from what I've read about, say, purple people having their "lives altered", in a lot of cases it's because they didn't do exactly what they were ordered to fast and perfectly enough (they didn't raise their hands fast enough, they raised them too fast, they turned around, they didn't turn around, etc). So nerves, fear, adrenaline for them with an "imperfect response" - and they get their "lives altered." And it's their own fault for not being calmer. Kind of ironic, dontchathink?


http://www.jt10000.com/
Last edited by: jt10000: Sep 2, 16 9:59
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
Did you consider maybe waiting there once you knew you weren't in danger?

A few years back I was running at night, a dog came chasing after me from across the road, a car coming up behind me ran over the dog and kept going. It never occurred to me to not immediately go find the owner of the dog and try to help. It didn't matter at all that 2 seconds earlier their dog was getting ready to bite me.

If you hit someone's dog you stop, it isn't a hard concept. You weren't in danger, and from her perspective you come across as a complete asshole who kills a dog and never pauses, even if you thought you had good reason to not stop.
Wait there and do what? I already explained that the other dog was by now highly threatened by me and as such entirely unpredictable. No way I'm going back anywhere in range of that dog. So if I'm standing and watching over 100' away, I can be sure the owner is going to recognize that I am sending hugs from a distance?

And your example isn't remotely close to the same thing. The dog owner in your case did not associate you in any way with the cause of death of his dog.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Sidney Porter] [ In reply to ]
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Sidney Porter wrote:
I assume the op was making a play on the common phrase about golf.
Golf is a way to spoil a nice walk
Golf is a good walk spoiled
Etc
The title was just bravado on my part, trying to make light of something that in fact had really frightened me and wasn't yet ready to admit that to myself. And yes, that phrase influenced me, I had just played the day before.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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ergopower wrote:
j p o wrote:
Did you consider maybe waiting there once you knew you weren't in danger?

A few years back I was running at night, a dog came chasing after me from across the road, a car coming up behind me ran over the dog and kept going. It never occurred to me to not immediately go find the owner of the dog and try to help. It didn't matter at all that 2 seconds earlier their dog was getting ready to bite me.

If you hit someone's dog you stop, it isn't a hard concept. You weren't in danger, and from her perspective you come across as a complete asshole who kills a dog and never pauses, even if you thought you had good reason to not stop.

Wait there and do what? I already explained that the other dog was by now highly threatened by me and as such entirely unpredictable. No way I'm going back anywhere in range of that dog. So if I'm standing and watching over 100' away, I can be sure the owner is going to recognize that I am sending hugs from a distance?

And your example isn't remotely close to the same thing. The dog owner in your case did not associate you in any way with the cause of death of his dog.

Were you suddenly struck mute by the trauma?

You should have stopped. You saw the owner, you saw the dog, you weren't in danger. You just didn't want to be further inconvenienced.

But you apparently just want people to tell you that the decision to go on as if nothing happened was the right one. Nope, you goofed.

The dog owner in your case did not associate you in any way with the cause of death of his dog -
How not? They didn't see it. They just knew I was coming to the door to tell them their dog had a broken back and appeared to be mortally wounded.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
" A woman is screaming at the dog from the yard, and I realize in a bit that he has stopped chasing. By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I"

Did you consider maybe waiting there once you knew you weren't in danger?

<snip>

If you hit someone's dog you stop, it isn't a hard concept. You weren't in danger, and from her perspective you come across as a complete asshole who kills a dog and never pauses, even if you thought you had good reason to not stop.

We have already established that the 2nd dog was chasing to start with. Despite the lady slowing the dog, there is no assurance it will stay under control. It also appears the lady wasn't in control of herself either. He is in cycling shoes. From a standstill, he has absolutely no chance to get away from either a lady or a dog if things go bad.There is absolutely no rule that you must stick around a potentially dangerous situation just to empathize with the owner. It's not the rider's fault the dog is dead.

To claim he was not in danger is a nonsense view. The lady chased him down and tried to run him off the road in a vehicle. To claim there is no danger is to claim that she was acting appropriately and that a lady who would run someone off the road is otherwise entirely safe. Even if someone hit your pet and left without stopping, chasing them down and running them off the road is not a sane response, ever.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Beachboy] [ In reply to ]
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Beachboy wrote:
I'm actually calling BS on this......the OP hit a dog (I don't care the size) square, kills it at 20plus and kept a it up right? Yea right......BS.

Post a video, copy of the police report or pics of blood on your bike or this whole story is TOTAL BS.

Seriously? A foo-foo dog would get chopped up much like a squirrel going through your spokes.

More than 30 years ago, when I was about 25, I flattened a Doberman at the end of a 20 mile open cycling race in Texas. There were about 6 of us left with about a half mile to go -- no Garmin back then - but we were hauling butt when out comes a Doberman racing straight for us. The pack opened up every which way trying to avoid it. I was reaching for my hand pump (no CO2s) and realized I didn't have time as he was coming right at my front wheel. I braced and hit him square on the neck/shoulder pushing him down to the road where his head then bounced up and met the bottom of my left pedal at full speed. CRACK! I don't know how, but I stayed up and the dog stayed down. I looked back thinking I had killed the dog at worst or knocked him out cold at best. I finished the race then went back just a few minutes later and the dog was gone. So either the dog came to or the owner collected its body...don't know and I don't feel bad either. I was just relieved to have not wrecked. I am totally with the OP here.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

You've already taken a well-deserved beating for this post so I would only add that with this attitude I hope you have enough set aside for a high cost legal defense fund should you ever do anything remotely like what you've threatened, and that you carry at least $10M in liability insurance.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
ergopower wrote:
j p o wrote:
Did you consider maybe waiting there once you knew you weren't in danger?

A few years back I was running at night, a dog came chasing after me from across the road, a car coming up behind me ran over the dog and kept going. It never occurred to me to not immediately go find the owner of the dog and try to help. It didn't matter at all that 2 seconds earlier their dog was getting ready to bite me.

If you hit someone's dog you stop, it isn't a hard concept. You weren't in danger, and from her perspective you come across as a complete asshole who kills a dog and never pauses, even if you thought you had good reason to not stop.

Wait there and do what? I already explained that the other dog was by now highly threatened by me and as such entirely unpredictable. No way I'm going back anywhere in range of that dog. So if I'm standing and watching over 100' away, I can be sure the owner is going to recognize that I am sending hugs from a distance?

And your example isn't remotely close to the same thing. The dog owner in your case did not associate you in any way with the cause of death of his dog.


Were you suddenly struck mute by the trauma?

You should have stopped. You saw the owner, you saw the dog, you weren't in danger. You just didn't want to be further inconvenienced.

But you apparently just want people to tell you that the decision to go on as if nothing happened was the right one. Nope, you goofed.

The dog owner in your case did not associate you in any way with the cause of death of his dog -
How not? They didn't see it. They just knew I was coming to the door to tell them their dog had a broken back and appeared to be mortally wounded.

No he didn't have to stop, HIS own safety is his 1st priority. It's still the owner's fault in not securing her dog and acting violent to another person afterwards. A few years ago I did hit a dog on my bike, the dog just ran infront of me and I dind't have time to react. Good thing I was riding at a slower speed since it was an incline. The dog got bumped and it gave the hurt whine and ran the opposite direction. The owner apologized for not having the dog on leash. I was a pet owner of dogs and cats (they passed away already) and it's the responsibility of the owner on what happens to their pets or what their pets do.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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As an aside, I'll point out that it is possible to have a dog run off the leash on your property without harm. Not arguing with the OP or anyone else, just pointing something out.

I ride on back-country roads and always pass by a house in the middle of nowhere with a huge yard. The yard is bisected by a driveway that runs perpendicular to the road. Every time I ride by there's a dog that runs parallel to the road as I pass. He stays in his yard, but he keeps up with me. As he gets close to the driveway, he swerves and runs behind the house, comes back around, and then comes forward into the yard and runs parallel with me again until he runs out of yard and stops.

I don't see an electronic fence at either the yard perimeter or the driveway, so either I'm missing it or that's one well-trained dog.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
I'm a dog person, lots of dogs amongst my family and friends, including both pets and farm/working dogs, have always loved them. My experience is largely similar to yours, but I would caveat that my perception of a dog's behaviour is going to be very different to somebody who hasn't been around dogs all their life. Dogs off the leash in parks are also far less likely to be hostile than dogs on farms or out in the countryside.

My take on this is:
- personally I would have stopped when the 2nd dog stopped and tried to calm the situation down. A dog (particularly a farm/country dog) is quite likely to nip or worse in the excitement of chasing a moving target, but having stopped the chase it's extremely unlikely to then attack a full-grown man who is standing his ground, and if it tries then you should be able to repel it fairly easily with a kick or by putting the bike between you and it. However, I can understand that not everybody sees dogs the way I do, and that with adrenaline pumping through your veins that cycling off at top speed is an understandable response.
- I think what most people in this thread are missing is that the owner was quite possibly close to temporary insanity. This wasn't a considered response, it was the visceral response of somebody who may not have even seen the incident but just ran out and saw her dog dead on the ground and the cyclist taking off into the distance. I'm not in any way equating the life of a dog with the life of a child, but in terms of the immediate emotional response triggered in an owner/parent by seeing one killed, it's not far off. It's entirely possible that she's a basically decent person who was out of her mind
- if you're saying that your emotional response to seeing your dog killed would have been to chase down the cyclist and beat him up, I get that. If you're saying you'd have done the same thing as a considered response after reflecting on the fact that the dog was running loose on the road and that the rider was just trying to escape your second dog, then I have to say you're totally wrong. This was an unfortunate accident, nobody deserves to have their face rearranged for doing something they couldn't have avoided, or for their immediate fight or flight response to a charged and highly stressful situation.

I do think the OP's time would have been better spent on writing a letter to the owner explaining what happened from his perspective and expressing his sorrow for the loss of her dog, rather than posting a somewhat callous thread about it on here. Might have had a more positive outcome in terms of both helping her to get closure, and getting her to see her actions from somebody else's perspective and being a more responsible owner and driver in future.

Ya, my initial response was my first emotional response; if I had waited and thought a bit more about it, i would have written a more considered response. OTOH, after reading the OP's initial post four times now, the bastard did not even put on his brakes to try to avoid hitting the small dog, and this was before he even knew the bigger dog was coming. Not even braking is pretty fricking callous IMO.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [gellerche] [ In reply to ]
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off topic but check out the collar, if it has a black plastic box maybe it's an electric(shock) collar, if not it's possibly a well trained dog. My dog was well trained enough that it won't step on the street unless we were walking with him on the street. So other than knowing the usual sit/stay/down commands he was trained to walk beside us, knows the limit of the front and back yard, etc.. I did have to put him and myself to a dog training school at a young age.
Last edited by: flyrunride: Sep 2, 16 10:39
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
DJRed wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.


You are smoking the drapes. OP did exactly what he should have. I'm not staying around to see if I can become a chew toy. Hey, don't want your dog who gets excited and chases things to get run over? Keep it on a leash or in a fenced-in yard. Oh, and it'll make no difference to his collarbone when he's flipping ass over ankles because some excited dog jumps up at him as he's riding.


Yeah, so the dog is dead and the cyclist is unhurt, seems like a fair deal to me.

Dude, I've been a dog owner all my life, and have 2 dogs right now.

YOU are completely off your rocker. WTF???!!!!!!

Would you feel better had the cyclist gotten killed?

The dog was not properly restrained/contained by the owner. That's illegal.
Because of that, a cyclist hit the dog, accidentally killing it.
ALL of which is THE OWNER'S FAULT.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Traket92x] [ In reply to ]
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Traket92x wrote:

We have already established that the 2nd dog was chasing to start with. Despite the lady slowing the dog, there is no assurance it will stay under control. It also appears the lady wasn't in control of herself either. He is in cycling shoes. From a standstill, he has absolutely no chance to get away from either a lady or a dog if things go bad.There is absolutely no rule that you must stick around a potentially dangerous situation just to empathize with the owner. It's not the rider's fault the dog is dead.

To claim he was not in danger is a nonsense view. The lady chased him down and tried to run him off the road in a vehicle. To claim there is no danger is to claim that she was acting appropriately and that a lady who would run someone off the road is otherwise entirely safe. Even if someone hit your pet and left without stopping, chasing them down and running them off the road is not a sane response, ever.

From the OP.

"nd I realize in a bit that he has stopped chasing. By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from"

So not in danger, dog not chasing. Lady got pissed when he just kept going, which you know is kind of an asshole thing to do.

Did he HAVE to stop? No. But it is common decency to do so.

Fuck man, did none of your parents teach any of you some damn manners?

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [bikerdude] [ In reply to ]
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bikerdude wrote:
Again consequences for our decisions. You speed and don't get in an accident; no consequences. Speed cause an accident and someone is injured because of your bad decision there are consequences. The lady let her dog run free against the law for who knows how long and got away with it. She was complacent as most of us are with cellphones, texting and driving etc. But cause a problem because of bad decisions and the hammer drops. In this case the hammer was the dog's death. (A death that I regret and even mourn but realize it is not the bicyclists fault.)

My point is that cyclists are always pointing out how other people, motorists, dog owners, cat owners, whatever, are OMG breaking the law, as if they themselves never ever break the law, i.e. they always stop at every stop sign, etc. My point is that virtually everyone breaks some minor law every day, so don't go blaming the other law breaker when you do it all the time too. It's like the pot calling the kettle black.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Ya, my initial response was my first emotional response; if I had waited and thought a bit more about it, i would have written a more considered response. OTOH, after reading the OP's initial post four times now, the bastard did not even put on his brakes to try to avoid hitting the small dog, and this was before he even knew the bigger dog was coming. Not even braking is pretty fricking callous IMO.

I have to think you are either illiterate or intentionally trying to be a jackass. A quote from the OP in his post.

Quote:
This approach climbs part way, then drops 100 ft or so, then back up to the top. Just after I pass through the bottom of the drop in the middle at 35? mph, a very small dog darts out of a yard ahead and to my right. It makes a beeline straight down the road toward me. By the time I see it, it's already within 20 - 30 ft of me. I make one steering input to go from the fog line more toward the middle of the lane, but it makes the same move and I straighten the handlebars knowing the impact is coming.

He tried to avoid the dog going 35 mph. He doesn't see the dog until its 20-30 feet in front of him. His reaction time is extremely limited.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Seriously a very similr thing happened to me yesterday on my ride. Going down a hill about 30. I see this little thing in the yard I got out of aero bard as i figured there was no hiden fence and this dumb thing is runing onto the street next thing i know this thing is coming for my front wheel. Luckily i dodged it and when i glanced back he was standing on four paws but not moving not sure i clipped him with the rear didnt feel like i did but I was scared shitless of crashing and getting siriously hurt. In my opinion you did all you could. Unfortunate yes but what could you have done.

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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [suahoi] [ In reply to ]
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suahoi wrote:
So you didn't even brake to attempt to avoid the dog, and subsequently killed it.... Then you didn't have the decency to stop once you were clear of the second dog. And you then blamed the woman, who just watched you kill her dog, screaming at her while cycling away. You're a f*cking dick.

My sentiments exactly. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
Traket92x wrote:


We have already established that the 2nd dog was chasing to start with. Despite the lady slowing the dog, there is no assurance it will stay under control. It also appears the lady wasn't in control of herself either. He is in cycling shoes. From a standstill, he has absolutely no chance to get away from either a lady or a dog if things go bad.There is absolutely no rule that you must stick around a potentially dangerous situation just to empathize with the owner. It's not the rider's fault the dog is dead.

To claim he was not in danger is a nonsense view. The lady chased him down and tried to run him off the road in a vehicle. To claim there is no danger is to claim that she was acting appropriately and that a lady who would run someone off the road is otherwise entirely safe. Even if someone hit your pet and left without stopping, chasing them down and running them off the road is not a sane response, ever.


From the OP.

"nd I realize in a bit that he has stopped chasing. By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from"

So not in danger, dog not chasing. Lady got pissed when he just kept going, which you know is kind of an asshole thing to do.

Did he HAVE to stop? No. But it is common decency to do so.

Fuck man, did none of your parents teach any of you some damn manners?


Quote:
I give a huge yell which makes startles him and he briefly stops, while I give it everything I have to get past him. I'm going uphill now and slowing rapidly, thinking about how I'm going to deal with it if it continues pursuit. A woman is screaming at the dog from the yard, and I realize in a bit that he has stopped chasing. By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere and I'm not chancing going back.



OP clearly stated he was going uphill when realizes the larger dog has given up chase, but may still be on the loose. If I'm going uphill, and there is a possible threat behind me, I'm not going to stop going up the hill. That's only going to make it next to impossible to get away should the dog give chase again. Self preservation is going to take over at this point.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
bikerdude wrote:
Again consequences for our decisions. You speed and don't get in an accident; no consequences. Speed cause an accident and someone is injured because of your bad decision there are consequences. The lady let her dog run free against the law for who knows how long and got away with it. She was complacent as most of us are with cellphones, texting and driving etc. But cause a problem because of bad decisions and the hammer drops. In this case the hammer was the dog's death. (A death that I regret and even mourn but realize it is not the bicyclists fault.)


My point is that cyclists are always pointing out how other people, motorists, dog owners, cat owners, whatever, are OMG breaking the law, as if they themselves never ever break the law, i.e. they always stop at every stop sign, etc. My point is that virtually everyone breaks some minor law every day, so don't go blaming the other law breaker when you do it all the time too. It's like the pot calling the kettle black.
This is the most insane and dangerous opinion to hold I can imagine - since transgressions are commonplace, no-one can complain when someone transgresses against them. In other words, the rule of law should not apply because laws are going to be broken in any case.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.


How do you know what sort of dog it was or how it was raised? Get over yourself.

And any dog owner that lets their dog wantonly chase thing out into the road is irresponsible and probably shouldn't own dogs. Then again, about 75% of dog owners shouldn't own dogs.


Pete Githens
Reading, PA
Last edited by: Mr. October: Sep 2, 16 11:03
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
DJRed wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
BrianB wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
You could have gone back after the second dog threat had ended.

I agree.... the dog should not have been in the street, but you could have a little compassion for the family with the dead dog.


yes, should have gone back and said, "I feel sorry for your dog that you are an asshole owner that let it run free in the road. But at least it was only a bike and not a truck that squashed it"


What if it was a 5 year old kid that ran out in front of his bike???

Same response???

The kid shouldn't be allowed to run in the street either.


Funny timing on this. I'm at the track on Tuesday night running quarter repeats when a boy (about 5) decides he's going to race me. He starts running and swerving in front of me slowing me down. His parents recognize this, call his name, and the kid comes to a dead stop right in front of me. I do moves from the Matrix and somehow avoid running him over and going down myself. Parents yell an apology. I flash a "thumbs up" as I run on my way.

At no point did the kid ever jump at me, charge me, or try to bite me. Nor, was I ever in fear that would happen.

So, yeah, they are different.


Yeah... way different. What if you hit the kid and hurt or killed him?

My point is... that even though it was the kids/parents fault... you would have certainly stopped and had apologized.

Dude, please. You are a f'n moron if you're trying to compare a child with a dog.

Nobody is afraid of being attacked by a 5 year old human child.
Nor would they then be afraid to stop if another human child was giving chase.

Dogs are dangerous. Potentially lethal.
And I say this as a lifelong dog-lover, and owner of 2 currently.

A dear family friend, an older woman in her 70's at the time, was attacked and nearly killed by a dog in her neighborhood, a very quiet, dead-end street. It tore off half her face, and ripped apart her neck and shoulder.
The dog's owners were shocked - it had never done anything like that before.
Naturally, it was euthanized by the authorities.

Ya don't hear about a whole lot of 5 year old kids doing anything like that.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [mcclelland] [ In reply to ]
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mcclelland wrote:
suahoi wrote:


So in your scenario, I think I would have had the same initial response (get away from the chasing dog), but then had the decency to stop and talk to the owner (and apologize, even if it wasn't my fault).

This is the same as a car hitting a cyclist when the cyclist is in the wrong, and then fleeing the scene. Even if it's not your fault, the decent human thing would be to check on him and apologize.

Can't believe people are still advocating that he should have stopped to talk to THE CRAZY LADY WHO TWICE TRIED TO HIT HIM WITH HER CAR! OP is right - people are totally missing that part.

I would press criminal charges of attempted assault with a deadly weapon against that lady.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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I really wonder what the ladies response would have been if role was reversed. Lets say dog runs out, OP crashes get seriously hurt ends up in the hospital. Something is telling me it be an unfortunate accident where he mishandled his bike and lady and the dog would not be at fault. Especially if no witness where present.

Ive been in an accident where i was hit by a car on a bike who was at fault for speeding 10 over and ended up hitting me as he didnt see me coming through a curve. Cops pretty much only got the drivers story and deemed accident was caused by me. Hearing only his side as i was driven to the hospital. Never pressed any charges or pursued anything as i was fortunate enough to only get 45 stitches on my face and lose a bunch of skin. insurnace covered the whole ER.

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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [gellerche] [ In reply to ]
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gellerche wrote:
As an aside, I'll point out that it is possible to have a dog run off the leash on your property without harm. Not arguing with the OP or anyone else, just pointing something out.

I ride on back-country roads and always pass by a house in the middle of nowhere with a huge yard. The yard is bisected by a driveway that runs perpendicular to the road. Every time I ride by there's a dog that runs parallel to the road as I pass. He stays in his yard, but he keeps up with me. As he gets close to the driveway, he swerves and runs behind the house, comes back around, and then comes forward into the yard and runs parallel with me again until he runs out of yard and stops.

I don't see an electronic fence at either the yard perimeter or the driveway, so either I'm missing it or that's one well-trained dog.
growing up in the 70-80's when it was more socially acceptable to have unleashed dogs we had a dog that would chase cars but she would not leave the side or the block. She had people that would actively look for her to "race". The would stop at the end of the block and wait for her to get to the starting line
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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KingMidas wrote:
mcclelland wrote:
Can't believe people are still advocating that he should have stopped to talk to THE CRAZY LADY WHO TWICE TRIED TO HIT HIM WITH HER CAR! OP is right - people are totally missing that part.


I would press criminal charges of attempted assault with a deadly weapon against that lady.
In PA, the unwritten rule for motor vehicle incidents seems to be that if there are no outside witnesses and nothing but property damage, the police are not going to get involved and any property damage is to be settled by the insurers.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericmulk wrote:
suahoi wrote:
So you didn't even brake to attempt to avoid the dog, and subsequently killed it.... Then you didn't have the decency to stop once you were clear of the second dog. And you then blamed the woman, who just watched you kill her dog, screaming at her while cycling away. You're a f*cking dick.


My sentiments exactly. :)
So let's do a little experiment - on that same stretch of road, I'll place a 5 lb bag of sugar. You ride down the hill, and brake just before making contact with the bag of sugar. Let us know how that goes.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Wow....you're getting a lot of extremes of what others would do.
Sure in hind sight the majority of us probably would've stopped, especially after taking the 3-8 minutes to read this whole thread & mulling it over.
But in reality you did what you thought was right in the few seconds you had to make a decision. At that time, dog #2 could of been in front of #3 & #4. You didn't know.
Maybe go to the animal shelter and get a little puppy for her as a token of apology.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Was going back to the dog owner's house with the state trooper an option?

I get the flow of events based on fear of being bitten, the owner's actions with the car etc, but with a cop present and after the adrenaline had worn off, calmer heads would presumably have prevailed. Right now the dog owner probably hates all cyclists because one killed her dog (albeit an insufficiently trained/restrained dog) and rode off like it wasn't a big deal, combined with the cops contacting her after the fact to tell her it was all her fault.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

Not sure what state this took place in, but you must not ride much in rural Alabama. They breed to kill down here.

Race Reports, etc -- Bob's Bikes
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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And, yet, you are doubling down on stupid?

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Sidney Porter] [ In reply to ]
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Sidney Porter wrote:
gellerche wrote:
As an aside, I'll point out that it is possible to have a dog run off the leash on your property without harm. Not arguing with the OP or anyone else, just pointing something out.

I ride on back-country roads and always pass by a house in the middle of nowhere with a huge yard. The yard is bisected by a driveway that runs perpendicular to the road. Every time I ride by there's a dog that runs parallel to the road as I pass. He stays in his yard, but he keeps up with me. As he gets close to the driveway, he swerves and runs behind the house, comes back around, and then comes forward into the yard and runs parallel with me again until he runs out of yard and stops.

I don't see an electronic fence at either the yard perimeter or the driveway, so either I'm missing it or that's one well-trained dog.


growing up in the 70-80's when it was more socially acceptable to have unleashed dogs we had a dog that would chase cars but she would not leave the side or the block. She had people that would actively look for her to "race". The would stop at the end of the block and wait for her to get to the starting line

Growing up in the 50's in a small town, if a dog continued to chase cars onto the road my father and his friends would put a burlap bag under the hubcap with enough material hanging out for a dog to bite. If a dog latched on, they would be slammed several times before they could let go. That was socially acceptable at the time as well.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
bikerdude wrote:
Again consequences for our decisions. You speed and don't get in an accident; no consequences. Speed cause an accident and someone is injured because of your bad decision there are consequences. The lady let her dog run free against the law for who knows how long and got away with it. She was complacent as most of us are with cellphones, texting and driving etc. But cause a problem because of bad decisions and the hammer drops. In this case the hammer was the dog's death. (A death that I regret and even mourn but realize it is not the bicyclists fault.)


My point is that cyclists are always pointing out how other people, motorists, dog owners, cat owners, whatever, are OMG breaking the law, as if they themselves never ever break the law, i.e. they always stop at every stop sign, etc. My point is that virtually everyone breaks some minor law every day, so don't go blaming the other law breaker when you do it all the time too. It's like the pot calling the kettle black.

You've posted a lot and in general it has seemed pretty well reasoned, but this thread has brought out some weird shit. Ad hominem logical fallacies all over the damn place.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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I'll admit on first read I thought the OP should have stopped sooner, but as I attempt to put myself in his shoes, I ultimately agree with his course of action.

No question it was the owners fault, and no question he was not obligated to stop but probably would have had there been no further danger.

No effin way I am going to stop to find out how friendly the next dog is, especially on an uphill where the dog can likely out pace me. One thing if it was flat or downhill and if the dog came after me a second time I could easily sprint away, not so on a hill.

I then thought I would likely stop when I noticed the car behind me and figured out it was the woman. But then I think about some of the rural areas I ride in and the fact that lots of people in my area carry guns. I would have been hesitant to stop for someone who chased me down in a car when they were in the wrong originally. What was she really trying to accomplish by chasing him down? Was him regretting the death of the dog due to her negligence going to make everything better? No, she was behind him in a 2 ton deadly weapon because she was pissed off. Yep, I ain't stoppin to find out if this lunatic has a gun until I am in a safe place. Safe place is hard to find out in the country.

Sucks all around, but I don't fault the OP, he made decent decisions in a very tense situation.

Oh and Eric, you are a fuckin idiot.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Wait, so they would just drive around with a burlap sack partially filled with stuff attached to the hubcap awaiting the moment when a dog would attack? Wouldn't the sack just rotate around with the wheel since it was attached to a fixed point on the hubcap? I don't see the car being particularly driveable and I also don't see the hubcap staying on for very long.

I call BS.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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WelshinPhilly wrote:
Was going back to the dog owner's house with the state trooper an option?

I get the flow of events based on fear of being bitten, the owner's actions with the car etc, but with a cop present and after the adrenaline had worn off, calmer heads would presumably have prevailed. Right now the dog owner probably hates all cyclists because one killed her dog (albeit an insufficiently trained/restrained dog) and rode off like it wasn't a big deal, combined with the cops contacting her after the fact to tell her it was all her fault.
No. I asked if he wanted me to come, and I would have. I don't think he intended to go straight to her house in any case, he mentioned letting her cool off.

The bolded part is what I still have a lot of anxiety over. I'm going to send out an email to all the cycling contacts I have to let them know, and suggest they avoid that particular road for now.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Not even braking is pretty fricking callous IMO.

The OP was faced with a split second decision, but based on his description, not only was the decision made within the range of acceptability in that context -- it was probably the correct decision. If you get on your brakes while hitting a bump, you will have a hard time staying upright. In the attached video from this year's TdF, the peloton suddenly slows. Unbeknownst to Rafal Majka there was a speed bump just ahead of him. He gets on his brakes and the result isn't pretty (it's at the very beginning of the video, but check it out). The OP's first priority should have been to avoid human harm or death (including his own). That is what he did. I do not see a word in his description that would make me feel he took joy in the dog's death (or that he went out of his way to cause it). If you are faced with this situation and you decide you want to put the dog's life ahead of your own, that will be your choice -- but I do not think that is the societal norm and it certainly isn't mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHPpfYoVa0k
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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ergopower wrote:
WelshinPhilly wrote:
Was going back to the dog owner's house with the state trooper an option?

I get the flow of events based on fear of being bitten, the owner's actions with the car etc, but with a cop present and after the adrenaline had worn off, calmer heads would presumably have prevailed. Right now the dog owner probably hates all cyclists because one killed her dog (albeit an insufficiently trained/restrained dog) and rode off like it wasn't a big deal, combined with the cops contacting her after the fact to tell her it was all her fault.

No. I asked if he wanted me to come, and I would have. I don't think he intended to go straight to her house in any case, he mentioned letting her cool off.

The bolded part is what I still have a lot of anxiety over. I'm going to send out an email to all the cycling contacts I have to let them know, and suggest they avoid that particular road for now.

Just out of curiosity and caution, where in PA did you say this was?
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
My point is that cyclists are always pointing out how other people, motorists, dog owners, cat owners, whatever, are OMG breaking the law, as if they themselves never ever break the law, i.e. they always stop at every stop sign, etc. My point is that virtually everyone breaks some minor law every day, so don't go blaming the other law breaker when you do it all the time too. It's like the pot calling the kettle black.

When the act of breaking the law is the cause of the damage, it is not only appropriate, it is vital to "blame" the law breaker. Are you pissed because this guy is blaming the dog's death on the fact that the owner didn't keep it out of the street, or are you pissed because he hit the dog and doesn't seem (to you) the least bit remorseful?

For the love of Pete, pick a fucking outrage and stick with it.

''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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Murphy'sLaw wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
DJRed wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
BrianB wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
You could have gone back after the second dog threat had ended.

I agree.... the dog should not have been in the street, but you could have a little compassion for the family with the dead dog.


yes, should have gone back and said, "I feel sorry for your dog that you are an asshole owner that let it run free in the road. But at least it was only a bike and not a truck that squashed it"


What if it was a 5 year old kid that ran out in front of his bike???

Same response???

The kid shouldn't be allowed to run in the street either.


Funny timing on this. I'm at the track on Tuesday night running quarter repeats when a boy (about 5) decides he's going to race me. He starts running and swerving in front of me slowing me down. His parents recognize this, call his name, and the kid comes to a dead stop right in front of me. I do moves from the Matrix and somehow avoid running him over and going down myself. Parents yell an apology. I flash a "thumbs up" as I run on my way.

At no point did the kid ever jump at me, charge me, or try to bite me. Nor, was I ever in fear that would happen.

So, yeah, they are different.


Yeah... way different. What if you hit the kid and hurt or killed him?

My point is... that even though it was the kids/parents fault... you would have certainly stopped and had apologized.


Dude, please. You are a f'n moron if you're trying to compare a child with a dog.

Nobody is afraid of being attacked by a 5 year old human child.
Nor would they then be afraid to stop if another human child was giving chase.

Dogs are dangerous. Potentially lethal.
And I say this as a lifelong dog-lover, and owner of 2 currently.

A dear family friend, an older woman in her 70's at the time, was attacked and nearly killed by a dog in her neighborhood, a very quiet, dead-end street. It tore off half her face, and ripped apart her neck and shoulder.
The dog's owners were shocked - it had never done anything like that before.
Naturally, it was euthanized by the authorities.

Ya don't hear about a whole lot of 5 year old kids doing anything like that.


I didn't say the guy should put his life in danger...

When the DANGER of the second dog attack had ended... DID YOU READ THAT????? He could have gone back and discussed the dead dog issue with the owner. That's what I said....

Trust me DUDE.... I am really not a fucking moron. I'm pretty level headed.

If your take away is that I said he should put his life in danger to save the dog... your level of reading comprehension is on the low side.

My point about the kid was... People are blaming the dog owner for the dog not being controlled... OK... fine. If the 5 year old ran into the street... that's also the parents fault. You going to go yell at the dead kid's parents for not watching him more closely??

BTW... Have a good weekend!!
Last edited by: Donzo98: Sep 2, 16 12:32
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:

When the DANGER of the second dog attack had ended... DID YOU READ THAT????? He could have gone back and discussed the dead dog issue with the owner. That's what I said....

DID YOU READ the part about the owner jumping in a car and physically going after the OP in said car? What part of going back to discuss it with her makes sense given that information?

Donzo98 wrote:
Trust me DUDE.... I am really not a fucking moron. I'm pretty level headed.

)

All evidence to the contrary...your reponses in this thread have amounted to insulting multiple people and calling them assholes over an event that didn;t even involve you.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericmulk wrote:
ergopower wrote:
mknight84 wrote:
He couldn't have stopped because the second dog. Bu I do agree he could at least felt bad about it.

...By this point I'm a hundred feet or more past the yard the dogs came from. I feel bad about the 1st dog, but I presume the 2nd one is still loose back there somewhere...


Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.


Lol, wow. I didn't know there were bullies on this website. "I will physically beat the shit out of you thereby committing a felony, if you don't say sorry for something that's not your fault" was essentially this post. You come off like that window cleaner guy in the recent viral video, "I'm your huckleberry"...

BTW while we are at the "if it was me"s - if you did that to me, I'd enjoy spending all my free time getting charges pressed, and you'd better be hoping the 3-15 years in prison (for aggravated assault and battery in Tennessee, class C felony) was worth it... "But Your Honor, he didn't say sorry!!"

That said, I do think if he could have spoken to the owner he really should have. But I'm pretty appalled to hear people think this is an appropriate response to him not doing so.
Last edited by: mcnnr27: Sep 2, 16 12:47
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Power13] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Power13 wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:


When the DANGER of the second dog attack had ended... DID YOU READ THAT????? He could have gone back and discussed the dead dog issue with the owner. That's what I said....


DID YOU READ the part about the owner jumping in a car and physically going after the OP in said car? What part of going back to discuss it with her makes sense given that information?

Donzo98 wrote:
Trust me DUDE.... I am really not a fucking moron. I'm pretty level headed.

)


All evidence to the contrary...your reponses in this thread have amounted to insulting multiple people and calling them assholes over an event that didn;t even involve you.


Last I looked... it didn't involve anyone except the OP..... and there are a ton of responses here.

If your dog was killed in a accident because it ran out of your house would you just expect the person involved to just drive/ride away??? In fairness... it was clearly a bad situation, but he could have gone back later. Maybe he could have gotten the info from the cop.

If I hit a dog on my bike/car I would feel horrible no matter whose fault it was.
Last edited by: Donzo98: Sep 2, 16 12:48
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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Sent you a PM

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
Quote Reply
Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
If your dog was killed in a accident because it ran out of your house would you just expect the person involved to just drive/ride away??? In fairness... it was clearly a bad situation, but he could have gone back later. Maybe he could have gotten the info from the cop.

If I hit a dog on my bike/car I would feel horrible no matter whose fault it was.

The enraged woman tried to run him off the road with her car. He could have been killed. You honestly think it would be a good idea to go knock on her door? Who the eff knows what her state of mind would be with him on her property.

He called the cops, made a statement which is hopefully now part of a recorded document somewhere should, God forbid this woman take her aggression out on him or another cyclist on the roads.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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Obviously I wasn't there, but I heard it from my uncle as well. Burlap sack would be empty. Stuff most of the sack under the hubcap and leave about 6" hanging out. A rag would be just as effective. A dog biting on is probably at only 20-30 degrees off the plane of the car so the force on the hubcap would be mostly in the direction of the wheel, not out. Yeah, I could see a hubcap popping off in some cases, all depends on the size of the dog, the angle of attack, manner of the whomping, etc. But even if it came off after a couple of whomps - lesson learned.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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That's - honestly - insanely creative.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:

If your dog was killed in a accident because it ran out of your house would you just expect the person involved to just drive/ride away??? In fairness... it was clearly a bad situation, but he could have gone back later. Maybe he could have gotten the info from the cop.

If I hit a dog on my bike/car I would feel horrible no matter whose fault it was.

One time in college my cycling team buddies and I were riding on a country road in coastal Virginia. Maybe the middle of a 50 mile ride, so a good bit of time left to ride. We were on a particular road on our loop that doesn't have lane lines (so, maybe a bit more than 1.5 lanes wide, country road), grassy ditches on each side, and a slight decline to it. We were rolling along pretty quickly since it was a mite downhill (roughly 25mph, although this was before Garmins became ubiquitous so I don't really know) when a small sized dog came roaring out from a mobile home towards us. Having encountered this plenty of times before, we weren't particularly worried; the dog usually adjusts course (from oncoming to a more tangential course) to run along side and bark at us. Unfortunately this dog did not adjust course and ran straight into my front wheel (I was the unlucky one riding on the right side of the road). I crashed heavily and, in spite of having no broken bones, was very shocked and hurt by the process. The dog did not die, but it limped off to another mobile home where an owner was standing on a porch, just kind of looking at us. I was the only one that crashed in our group of three, but I bent my RD hanger, got a lot of road rash on my right side, cracked my helmet, etc. The owner of the other home (I assume the owner anyway) picked up the dog and walked inside. We had to ride home from there, as none of my injuries were serious enough to warrant immediate attention by emergency healthcare, all the people had vanished all of a sudden, and we still had 1-2 hours of riding left to do.

I didn't feel bad for the dog...at all.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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As a person who has had his dog killed by an off leash dog and much more recently my toddler had a very close encounter with an off leash dog.

I love dogs.
I hate most dog people.
Your dog is a dog. It's not a human. It has barely any thinking capabilities except breeding and eating and making its owner happy. Its a piece of property and it has no right threatening or endangering other people.

All of that said, the original posted does sound cold but this situation sounds pretty rough.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Appropriate response. These days there just way too many people doing drugs, mentally unstable, etc... I would avoid riding in that area for the foreseeable future as you just don't know if she's a few fries short of a happy meal. Personally as a dog owner I completely agree with your actions, based on the second dog chasing you.


"For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't understand, no explanation is possible."
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
Power13 wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:


When the DANGER of the second dog attack had ended... DID YOU READ THAT????? He could have gone back and discussed the dead dog issue with the owner. That's what I said....


DID YOU READ the part about the owner jumping in a car and physically going after the OP in said car? What part of going back to discuss it with her makes sense given that information?

Donzo98 wrote:
Trust me DUDE.... I am really not a fucking moron. I'm pretty level headed.

)


All evidence to the contrary...your reponses in this thread have amounted to insulting multiple people and calling them assholes over an event that didn;t even involve you.


Last I looked... it didn't involve anyone except the OP..... and there are a ton of responses here.

If your dog was killed in a accident because it ran out of your house would you just expect the person involved to just drive/ride away??? In fairness... it was clearly a bad situation, but he could have gone back later. Maybe he could have gotten the info from the cop.

If I hit a dog on my bike/car I would feel horrible no matter whose fault it was.

two things:

1) pretty sure the OP felt horrible about hitting the dog; and
2) how would *you* determine if the danger was past? I would determine it when I *knew* that all dogs on the premises were adequately restrained. Pretty sure you wouldn't know that.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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To all the people who think the OP should have gone back and apologized, how do you think that would have gone?

Rider: (Breathless having just escaped a serious crash and attacking dog) OMG, I am sooooo sorry. I didn't see you dog until the last second and I didn't expect it to run out right in front of me. There was nothing I could do. :-(

Owner: OMG, are you ok? You don't have to apologize, it was all my fault for not having my dogs on leashes. I was so worried that you were going to crash. I am sooooo glad you came back so I can apologize to you for being so irresponsible. Can I get you some water, or ice tea perhaps?

The OP had absolutely nothing to gain by going back, and based on ericmulk's response, there is a risk of things getting out of control.

.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Donzo98 wrote:
Power13 wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:


When the DANGER of the second dog attack had ended... DID YOU READ THAT????? He could have gone back and discussed the dead dog issue with the owner. That's what I said....


DID YOU READ the part about the owner jumping in a car and physically going after the OP in said car? What part of going back to discuss it with her makes sense given that information?

Donzo98 wrote:
Trust me DUDE.... I am really not a fucking moron. I'm pretty level headed.

)


All evidence to the contrary...your reponses in this thread have amounted to insulting multiple people and calling them assholes over an event that didn;t even involve you.


Last I looked... it didn't involve anyone except the OP..... and there are a ton of responses here.

If your dog was killed in a accident because it ran out of your house would you just expect the person involved to just drive/ride away??? In fairness... it was clearly a bad situation, but he could have gone back later. Maybe he could have gotten the info from the cop.

If I hit a dog on my bike/car I would feel horrible no matter whose fault it was.

You directly quoted one of my posts and called me a callous (or insensitive) asshole.

And you are now doing a fair bit of backpedaling. You have gone from "he should have stopped" to "well, maybe he could have gone back later".

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [afrizzledfry] [ In reply to ]
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afrizzledfry wrote:
Or a woman on the rag.

Really?
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if anyone has said it yet...glad you are OK,

I think the thing that is missing is that (more) than 9 out of 10 athletes on ST would have "likely" hit the deck (probably myself included) in this situation...also equally likely given that the dog is coming straight at you that it *might* have died any way.

Then it would be a legal thread to re-coup injuries and bike replacement etc, if you were seriously injured no one would give two shits about the dog.

We have two small dogs (Boston Terriers at about 16 and 18 pounds) when we decided to get dogs we spent 1800$ on a nice fence and a dog door....that's building it yourself. we keep them on leashes unless in an off leash park or at home in our protected yard.

Maurice
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Power13] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Power13 wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
Power13 wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:


When the DANGER of the second dog attack had ended... DID YOU READ THAT????? He could have gone back and discussed the dead dog issue with the owner. That's what I said....


DID YOU READ the part about the owner jumping in a car and physically going after the OP in said car? What part of going back to discuss it with her makes sense given that information?

Donzo98 wrote:
Trust me DUDE.... I am really not a fucking moron. I'm pretty level headed.

)


All evidence to the contrary...your reponses in this thread have amounted to insulting multiple people and calling them assholes over an event that didn;t even involve you.


Last I looked... it didn't involve anyone except the OP..... and there are a ton of responses here.

If your dog was killed in a accident because it ran out of your house would you just expect the person involved to just drive/ride away??? In fairness... it was clearly a bad situation, but he could have gone back later. Maybe he could have gotten the info from the cop.

If I hit a dog on my bike/car I would feel horrible no matter whose fault it was.


You directly quoted one of my posts and called me a callous (or insensitive) asshole.

And you are now doing a fair bit of backpedaling. You have gone from "he should have stopped" to "well, maybe he could have gone back later".

Maybe you aren't an asshole after all...

Backpedaling... appropriate for ST I guess :)

Listen... the OP seems like a reasonable guy. If he thought he was in danger I get it.

Just feel bad for the dog owner...

If my dog got killed... I would feel better if the guy who killed it apologized.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Do you have a camera on your bike? Wold be nice to have the video evidence if you do.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
Not sure if anyone has said it yet...glad you are OK
Thank you

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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johnnybefit wrote:
Do you have a camera on your bike? Wold be nice to have the video evidence if you do.
I got a Garmin Virb as a present a while ago. Reading the instruction manual now. It's big and clunky like a GoPro, though. The drone guys have some way better solutions if you don't mind piecing together separate camera, battery and interface.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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ergopower wrote:
johnnybefit wrote:
Do you have a camera on your bike? Wold be nice to have the video evidence if you do.

I got a Garmin Virb as a present a while ago. Reading the instruction manual now. It's big and clunky like a GoPro, though. The drone guys have some way better solutions if you don't mind piecing together separate camera, battery and interface.

Check out my post here on the Fly 12 & 6 combo. Has you covered front and back.
Good luck out there!
John
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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100% not your fault. It's the dog owners fault on all counts for everything that happened and could have happened. Love dogs, but they are animals and don't trust a single one on/off a leash and that goes for the owners that don't obey the "Keep your pets on a leash" signs too.

Eff' em.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
Power13 wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
Power13 wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:


When the DANGER of the second dog attack had ended... DID YOU READ THAT????? He could have gone back and discussed the dead dog issue with the owner. That's what I said....


DID YOU READ the part about the owner jumping in a car and physically going after the OP in said car? What part of going back to discuss it with her makes sense given that information?

Donzo98 wrote:
Trust me DUDE.... I am really not a fucking moron. I'm pretty level headed.

)


All evidence to the contrary...your reponses in this thread have amounted to insulting multiple people and calling them assholes over an event that didn;t even involve you.


Last I looked... it didn't involve anyone except the OP..... and there are a ton of responses here.

If your dog was killed in a accident because it ran out of your house would you just expect the person involved to just drive/ride away??? In fairness... it was clearly a bad situation, but he could have gone back later. Maybe he could have gotten the info from the cop.

If I hit a dog on my bike/car I would feel horrible no matter whose fault it was.


You directly quoted one of my posts and called me a callous (or insensitive) asshole.

And you are now doing a fair bit of backpedaling. You have gone from "he should have stopped" to "well, maybe he could have gone back later".

Maybe you aren't an asshole after all...

Backpedaling... appropriate for ST I guess :)

Listen... the OP seems like a reasonable guy. If he thought he was in danger I get it.

Just feel bad for the dog owner...

If my dog got killed... I would feel better if the guy who killed it apologized.

Agreed...I feel bad for the owner as well. I once saw my dog get hit by a car. He was fine but the image / memory has stuck with me. Can't imagine seeing your dog get killed....

But I fully understand why the OP did what he did. Personally, I think I would have tried to find a way to stop, but based on what he wrote, that seems like it would have been difficult.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
Power13 wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
Power13 wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:


When the DANGER of the second dog attack had ended... DID YOU READ THAT????? He could have gone back and discussed the dead dog issue with the owner. That's what I said....


DID YOU READ the part about the owner jumping in a car and physically going after the OP in said car? What part of going back to discuss it with her makes sense given that information?

Donzo98 wrote:
Trust me DUDE.... I am really not a fucking moron. I'm pretty level headed.

)


All evidence to the contrary...your reponses in this thread have amounted to insulting multiple people and calling them assholes over an event that didn;t even involve you.


Last I looked... it didn't involve anyone except the OP..... and there are a ton of responses here.

If your dog was killed in a accident because it ran out of your house would you just expect the person involved to just drive/ride away??? In fairness... it was clearly a bad situation, but he could have gone back later. Maybe he could have gotten the info from the cop.

If I hit a dog on my bike/car I would feel horrible no matter whose fault it was.


You directly quoted one of my posts and called me a callous (or insensitive) asshole.

And you are now doing a fair bit of backpedaling. You have gone from "he should have stopped" to "well, maybe he could have gone back later".


Maybe you aren't an asshole after all...

Backpedaling... appropriate for ST I guess :)

Listen... the OP seems like a reasonable guy. If he thought he was in danger I get it.

Just feel bad for the dog owner...

If my dog got killed... I would feel better if the guy who killed it apologized.


Agreed...I feel bad for the owner as well. I once saw my dog get hit by a car. He was fine but the image / memory has stuck with me. Can't imagine seeing your dog get killed....

But I fully understand why the OP did what he did. Personally, I think I would have tried to find a way to stop, but based on what he wrote, that seems like it would have been difficult.

Looks like we found a common ground :)

Happy Labor Day weekend....
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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You wrote: "I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned. "

It is so easy to talk smack anonymously in an online forum when that is no possible way to carry out such a treat. You're a fucking coward as far as I'm concerned.


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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [M Ernst] [ In reply to ]
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M Ernst wrote:
You wrote: "I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned. "

It is so easy to talk smack anonymously in an online forum when that is no possible way to carry out such a treat. You're a fucking coward as far as I'm concerned.


If he had done this to 2 of the cyclists I ride with sometimes, there is a good chance he would be dead too.

His response was as classless and out of line as any I have seen on this forum in 15 years of lurking and being a registered user. Incredibly disturbing. And disappointing.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [TashaSkippy] [ In reply to ]
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TashaSkippy wrote:
M Ernst wrote:
You wrote: "I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned. "
It is so easy to talk smack anonymously in an online forum when that is no possible way to carry out such a treat. You're a fucking coward as far as I'm concerned.

If he had done this to 2 of the cyclists I ride with sometimes, there is a good chance he would be dead too. His response was as classless and out of line as any I have seen on this forum in 15 years of lurking and being a registered user. Incredibly disturbing. And disappointing.

Well, I'm sorry to have disappointed, and apparently shocked, so many people with my "illogical posts" but i guess i just have too much feeling for dogs.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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I would have done the same.......so there are two of us!

But then again I still believe this whole story is BS.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:

Have you ever had a dog??? Do you know dogs just like to chase things and bark when they're excited??? If you had stopped right after hitting the small dog, the bigger dog would come right up to you but I very much doubt that he would have attacked you. He probably would've just wagged his tail and barked. You run over someone's dog, you stop and apologize. If this dog had been mine, I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned.

Have you ever been bitten by a dog?
I have, it fucking hurts!

-

http://www.thetrinerd.com
Last edited by: Anth: Sep 5, 16 4:59
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
TashaSkippy wrote:
M Ernst wrote:
You wrote: "I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned. "
It is so easy to talk smack anonymously in an online forum when that is no possible way to carry out such a treat. You're a fucking coward as far as I'm concerned.

If he had done this to 2 of the cyclists I ride with sometimes, there is a good chance he would be dead too. His response was as classless and out of line as any I have seen on this forum in 15 years of lurking and being a registered user. Incredibly disturbing. And disappointing.

Well, I'm sorry to have disappointed, and apparently shocked, so many people with my "illogical posts" but i guess i just have too much feeling for dogs.

Don't turn this into a noble flaw about your affection for dogs. It must have taken you at least a minute to form an opinion on the post, type a reply, and hit send. Nowhere during that time did you think, hmm maybe this isn't appropriate. Especially since you doubled down with your replies after that. You're giving people who truly care about dogs a bad name.

What's most telling, you're apologising in a similar vein to that radio guy who rode the bike path with his car (was it in San Diego?). You're not apologising, you're just sorry it shocked people, you just can't figure out why, because you are just fucked in the head. It really scares me that people can just fly off the handle like that. I always enjoyed your posts on swimming but shit man, you're a psycho nutcase and I hope I never have the misfortune of running into you at the off chance I might trigger your dark side.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Classic self-important triathlete. Training ride "spoiled" by killing a dog. Shitty situation. Yeah, the dog shouldn't have been in the road. That's the owner's fault, not the dog's. Unfortunately, the dog is the victim here, and not you for being inconvenienced out of setting a PR on your local training loop.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [TashaSkippy] [ In reply to ]
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TashaSkippy wrote:
M Ernst wrote:
You wrote: "I would've chased you in the car, cut you off, and beaten the fucking shit out of you. You wouldn't have been able to do shit for a month or more b/c your face would be hamburger. You're a fucking bastard as far as I am concerned. "

It is so easy to talk smack anonymously in an online forum when that is no possible way to carry out such a treat. You're a fucking coward as far as I'm concerned.


If he had done this to 2 of the cyclists I ride with sometimes, there is a good chance he would be dead too.

His response was as classless and out of line as any I have seen on this forum in 15 years of lurking and being a registered user. Incredibly disturbing. And disappointing.

And I would add that after reading Eric's post that now I will NEVER go and apologize to the owner of a dog I had just hit, on the off chance of being met with psychotic murderous rage.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [davetopia] [ In reply to ]
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davetopia wrote:
Classic self-important triathlete. Training ride "spoiled" by killing a dog. Shitty situation. Yeah, the dog shouldn't have been in the road. That's the owner's fault, not the dog's. Unfortunately, the dog is the victim here, and not you for being inconvenienced out of setting a PR on your local training loop.


It's called sarcasm, through understatement. And as someone pointed out earlier, may have been a play on the phrase "Golf: a good walk spoiled"

So you can dial back your outrageometer.
Last edited by: Kay Serrar: Sep 3, 16 12:12
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [davetopia] [ In reply to ]
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davetopia wrote:
Classic self-important triathlete. Training ride "spoiled" by killing a dog. Shitty situation. Yeah, the dog shouldn't have been in the road. That's the owner's fault, not the dog's. Unfortunately, the dog is the victim here, and not you for being inconvenienced out of setting a PR on your local training loop.
Classic uncomprehending laptop warrior. It has little to do with the dogs. Unusual and regrettable situation, but I wouldn't have posted about that in itself. It's about attempted vehicular assault. Twice. That was the thing I found shocking, frightening and ultimately remarkable.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
bikerdude wrote:
Again consequences for our decisions. You speed and don't get in an accident; no consequences. Speed cause an accident and someone is injured because of your bad decision there are consequences. The lady let her dog run free against the law for who knows how long and got away with it. She was complacent as most of us are with cellphones, texting and driving etc. But cause a problem because of bad decisions and the hammer drops. In this case the hammer was the dog's death. (A death that I regret and even mourn but realize it is not the bicyclists fault.)


My point is that cyclists are always pointing out how other people, motorists, dog owners, cat owners, whatever, are OMG breaking the law, as if they themselves never ever break the law, i.e. they always stop at every stop sign, etc. My point is that virtually everyone breaks some minor law every day, so don't go blaming the other law breaker when you do it all the time too. It's like the pot calling the kettle black.

You've posted a lot and in general it has seemed pretty well reasoned, but this thread has brought out some weird shit. Ad hominem logical fallacies all over the damn place.

Seriously. I wonder if Eric's crazy cousin "Derek" is staying at his house and using his ST account.....

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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Haven't read thru this train wreck of a thread since page 1 so maybe you covered it, did you report it? In California buzzing a cyclist qualifies as assault with a deadly weapon and folks here have taken to reporting it all the time (to establish a record and to force local depts to take it seriously, they don't like increased crime stats)
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, talked to a State Trooper, but in PA it seems if no outside witnesses and no injuries, the police will not get involved. Even if there's property damage, unless it's clear cut like one car was going the wrong way down a one-way street, they just leave it to the insurers to sort out.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
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ergopower wrote:
Yes, talked to a State Trooper, but in PA it seems if no outside witnesses and no injuries, the police will not get involved. Even if there's property damage, unless it's clear cut like one car was going the wrong way down a one-way street, they just leave it to the insurers to sort out.

That used to happen here but really was the result of cops not wanting to do the paperwork. Seriously. Now people go to the station and demand to file a report (asking for the watch commander if the desk clerk balls), and not leaving until they take it (they have to, just don't want to)
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [Beachboy] [ In reply to ]
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Beachboy wrote:
I would have done the same.......so there are two of us!
But then again I still believe this whole story is BS.

Thanks very much, at least a few others see this situation as I do. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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The one that should apologize in a case like that is the dog owner. First to the dead dog, because the owner is the only one that is responsible for its death, and then to the cyclist who risked serious injury due to the dog owner dumbness.

On the other hand, you show serious adaption issues to living in society. Maybe you should go get checked by a professional.
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Re: Well that was a nice ride spoiled [runwichi] [ In reply to ]
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runwichi wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
.... You may be right, maybe I am an idiot, but anyone who hits my dog and does not even stop to apologize, that person is a fucking marked man. I live at the end of a dead-end street so not much chance of your scenario occurring.


What are you, 15? Grow the fuck up. If you're the owner and your dog causes an accident, you're in the wrong. Deal with it. Flex your fingers all you want on the internet, you try this shit in real life and you'll be in your own cage downtown waiting for the judge on Monday. Learn the law and stop being an asshat.

Source - dog owner and trainer.

Further, in some states it's assault by the owner. The owner is responsible for his dog. It's like owning a gun and firing it towards some trees towards a road. You would be 100% liable if you shot someone you couldn't see.

What if the dog is friendly, but a car swerves to miss the dog and kills a bicyclist? Should the family of the dead cyclist apologize to the dog owner? It's a tragic situation that a dog gets loose, but you can't expect the person that almost got seriously injured or potentially killed to have a tremendous amount of remorse.... especially not when dog #2 is coming at you and then the owner is trying to run you over.

Good grief, seriously.

I've had plenty of dog chase me on a bicycle and a motorcycle. Some are clearly friendly some do not seem so friendly. Both present a risk if they collide with me.

Some dog owners sometimes remind me of some smokers. Completely oblivious to how their choices impact others.


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