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Olympic Road cycling thread
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By the power vested in me as 2x Slowtwitch Spring Classics prediction game winner, i hereby open discussion related to the olympic road cycling thread.

Prediction as follows: Nederlands, Colombia, Italy; Espana and Rui Costa as wild cards. In particular, wout poels in the caddy, estaban chavez steak knives, nibali fired. Piti wheel sucks a bit too much and watches the winning break sail away on the flats. Rui Costa in the final spot.

Other riders to watch: Dumoulin, Mollema, Bardet, Cummings, and Rigo
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't looked at the profile, but heard some stuff. The climbing is too hard for GVA and Cancellara types?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [v0coder] [ In reply to ]
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https://www.theguardian.com/...chris-froome-cycling

The potential winner is really wide open at this point, but I'll take a stab: Henoa

res, non verba
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [v0coder] [ In reply to ]
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v0coder wrote:
I haven't looked at the profile, but heard some stuff. The climbing is too hard for GVA and Cancellara types?

GVA could go ok but really, it's a climbers course. If Spartacus wins then some weird stuff went down.
Nibali, Froome, the Colombians....those type of guys are most likely
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Have you been drinking?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [trail] [ In reply to ]
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George Bennett and Linda villumsen have both commented it's the most dangerous course they've seen.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Valverde, Alaphilippe, Poels for the men. Cummings as a wild card

Garner, Vos, Stevens for the ladies with Abbott as a wild card if she doesn't go off road on the descent.



---------------------------------------
Fruit snacks are for winners
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Nibali comes due, Rigo defends Silver, Valverde takes Bronze.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Is Tom Dumoulin on the start list? I read somewhere a few days ago that he planning on giving it a go.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [sjn] [ In reply to ]
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Cycling (and speed skating) legend Clara Hughes says Mike Woods is a dark horse.

Woods is fairly new to cycling...

"once a professional runner, has broken 4 minutes for the mile,"

http://rustywoodscycling.com/

Advocating for research & treatment for Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME).
http://www.meaction.net/about/what-is-me/

"Suck it up, Buttercup"
(me, to myself, every day)
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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since hes aussie, porte ftw
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Watching the stream on appletv. Very weird not having any announcers and just hearing basically white noise.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [sjn] [ In reply to ]
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sjn wrote:
Is Tom Dumoulin on the start list? I read somewhere a few days ago that he planning on giving it a go.


Yes. He's doing both the RR and TT.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [sjn] [ In reply to ]
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He's starting but will not feature, likely abandon before first pavé section, to not take any chances. He has to start in order to be able to start in the TT.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
By the power vested in me as 2x Slowtwitch Spring Classics prediction game winner, i hereby open discussion related to the olympic road cycling thread.

Prediction as follows: Nederlands, Colombia, Italy; Espana and Rui Costa as wild cards. In particular, wout poels in the caddy, estaban chavez steak knives, nibali fired. Piti wheel sucks a bit too much and watches the winning break sail away on the flats. Rui Costa in the final spot.

Other riders to watch: Dumoulin, Mollema, Bardet, Cummings, and Rigo

How is Dumoulin's hand?

If I understand correctly no race radios? French have Bardet in this? No money on "mr. orange juice, Valverde"?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Have you been drinking?
no; why?
Carl Spackler wrote:
Nibali comes due, Rigo defends Silver, Valverde takes Bronze.
Valverde getting Bronze is always a safe bet ;)


snaaijert wrote:
He's starting but will not feature, likely abandon before first pavé section, to not take any chances. He has to start in order to be able to start in the TT.

ah, good to know


devashish_paul wrote:
echappist wrote:
By the power vested in me as 2x Slowtwitch Spring Classics prediction game winner, i hereby open discussion related to the olympic road cycling thread.

Prediction as follows: Nederlands, Colombia, Italy; Espana and Rui Costa as wild cards. In particular, wout poels in the caddy, estaban chavez steak knives, nibali fired. Piti wheel sucks a bit too much and watches the winning break sail away on the flats. Rui Costa in the final spot.

Other riders to watch: Dumoulin, Mollema, Bardet, Cummings, and Rigo


How is Dumoulin's hand?

If I understand correctly no race radios? French have Bardet in this? No money on "mr. orange juice, Valverde"?

Piti = Señor Valverde Belmonte
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
trail wrote:
Have you been drinking?

no; why?
Carl Spackler wrote:
Nibali comes due, Rigo defends Silver, Valverde takes Bronze.

Valverde getting Bronze is always a safe bet ;)


snaaijert wrote:
He's starting but will not feature, likely abandon before first pavé section, to not take any chances. He has to start in order to be able to start in the TT.


ah, good to know


devashish_paul wrote:
echappist wrote:
By the power vested in me as 2x Slowtwitch Spring Classics prediction game winner, i hereby open discussion related to the olympic road cycling thread.

Prediction as follows: Nederlands, Colombia, Italy; Espana and Rui Costa as wild cards. In particular, wout poels in the caddy, estaban chavez steak knives, nibali fired. Piti wheel sucks a bit too much and watches the winning break sail away on the flats. Rui Costa in the final spot.

Other riders to watch: Dumoulin, Mollema, Bardet, Cummings, and Rigo


How is Dumoulin's hand?

If I understand correctly no race radios? French have Bardet in this? No money on "mr. orange juice, Valverde"?


Piti = Señor Valverde Belmonte

Valverde is lucky he is Spanish and not Russian!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [bmeer] [ In reply to ]
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bmeer wrote:
Valverde, Alaphilippe, Poels for the men. Cummings as a wild card

Garner, Vos, Stevens for the ladies with Abbott as a wild card if she doesn't go off road on the descent.

Lucy Garner isn't representing GB at the Olympics ;)

But Guarnier is representing the U.S. :p

Guarnier, Anna VdB, Niewiadoma
Stevens and Armistead
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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My pick today is Valverde
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisC42780 wrote:
My pick today is Valverde

I've been picking Valverde since he was 3rd at the Giro. So how does the breakaway know their gap and how does the peloton know? Old style chalk board from the race motos?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Valverde = Superman, wins in a Vino-esq break.
cause why not




not being a knowledge cycling fan, what is the standing of this race? do the racers give it the cache of a monument or WC?
and i know a lot of people hate Phil and Paul, but NO commentary is weird. you can hear individual chatter in the crowds.
Last edited by: dsmallwood: Aug 6, 16 6:22
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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snaaijert wrote:
He's starting but will not feature, likely abandon before first pavé section, to not take any chances. He has to start in order to be able to start in the TT.

He abandoned in the first 10 mins. Didn't realize he had to start the road race in order to be eligible for the TT
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisC42780 wrote:
My pick today is Valverde

The break is up 7 min with Pantano in it. But still 200K to go.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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My dark horse is actually Pantano after his awesome TDF
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisC42780 wrote:
My dark horse is actually Pantano after his awesome TDF

Yeah, Pantano could be on fire. He's in the break too.

That cobble section looks really rough. Do you guys know if they do the cobbles on the circuit at the end of the race with the big climbs or just on the first loops.

Dev
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisC42780 wrote:
My dark horse is actually Pantano after his awesome TDF

being in the early break most certainly means he won't feature later on.

i'm putting in Tim Wellens in lieu of Dumoulin as the circle of lesser favs
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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The only video feed I can find is Croatian water polo. Is there a cycling video feed?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [jgilb2u] [ In reply to ]
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jgilb2u wrote:
The only video feed I can find is Croatian water polo. Is there a cycling video feed?

If you have Comcast you can watch it live On Demand without commentary. All you hear is background noise such as helicopters, car horns, bikes shifting gears and occasional talk. You do get occasional graphics with distance to go and gap between peloton and breakaway. It's a bit difficult to figure out who is who because of the country kits instead of team kits. Breakaway has a 9 min gap at this moment.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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anyone have a clue whether the NBC Sports Roku app will have the replay available later?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [BrianB] [ In reply to ]
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my brother says Yes
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [BrianB] [ In reply to ]
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BrianB wrote:
anyone have a clue whether the NBC Sports Roku app will have the replay available later?

It's live on the Roku APP now. Still no commentary.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Mightygator] [ In reply to ]
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What are the mechanical failures from the cobble stones? Wheels ? Flats?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Dirt fighter] [ In reply to ]
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launched bottles !
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Mightygator] [ In reply to ]
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Mightygator wrote:
BrianB wrote:
anyone have a clue whether the NBC Sports Roku app will have the replay available later?


It's live on the Roku APP now. Still no commentary.

yes, watching, but I want to go ride now :-)
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [jgilb2u] [ In reply to ]
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The CBC has an uninterrupted HD stream of the cycling with commentary. I assume it's country restricted to Canada, but if you have a proxy you can probably get around it.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [heyMartin] [ In reply to ]
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heyMartin wrote:
launched bottles !

that was ridiculous

also Ritchie Porte's mechanic will probably get a stern talking to for not adjusting the front derailleur properly
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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number of dropped chains is amazing
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [heyMartin] [ In reply to ]
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online is about 35K ahead of TV
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [heyMartin] [ In reply to ]
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heyMartin wrote:
online is about 35K ahead of TV


watching via the NBC website
12:08 eastern, 92.4K to go
what you got?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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93.7K to go online
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [heyMartin] [ In reply to ]
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10:11 MST
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [heyMartin] [ In reply to ]
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How TF do I watch if I have Directv??
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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anyone have Paul Sherwin/CVV on their online commentary?

I have a different man/woman
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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man, 70km to go and that's a STEEP climb
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Why no disc brakes ? Seems like it would have a good race to demo them again
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
bmeer wrote:
Valverde, Alaphilippe, Poels for the men. Cummings as a wild card

Garner, Vos, Stevens for the ladies with Abbott as a wild card if she doesn't go off road on the descent.

Lucy Garner isn't representing GB at the Olympics ;)

But Guarnier is representing the U.S. :p

Guarnier, Anna VdB, Niewiadoma
Stevens and Armistead

Stupid autocorrect fail. I even looked it up to make sure I spelled her name right



---------------------------------------
Fruit snacks are for winners
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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If you watch the NBC channel feed in the app, then you will get Paul and Christian. But your coverage will also be interrupted by swimming coverage, Mike Tirico monologue and more commercials.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [mdm81] [ In reply to ]
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That descent looks really bad in that there is a 1 foot high cement wall at the edge of the road. If you lose any traction, you go right into it as Ritchie Porte did. It looks really really bad for him grabbing his shoulder. I hope he can do the TT, but not really looking good. Ouch. Great coverage here in Canada.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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looks like he hit one of the netting poles
the Italians swarm into front
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I think it would be pretty cool to see chris froome win this.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
That descent looks really bad in that there is a 1 foot high cement wall at the edge of the road. If you lose any traction, you go right into it as Ritchie Porte did. It looks really really bad for him grabbing his shoulder. I hope he can do the TT, but not really looking good. Ouch. Great coverage here in Canada.

ditto with the BBC; full commentary from the start

it seems that Nibali really put the hurt on last time up the climb. Italy looks strong here
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Mightygator] [ In reply to ]
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Do any of the streams for other sports have commentary? Or are all of them simply video and background noise?

Team Zoot - Great Lakes
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [tjones2k9] [ In reply to ]
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Fabian will be remembered ... for bringing the pain. wow. this is a big turn.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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The NBC streaming here in the USA is late. I can see on twitter what is happening and then check the streaming.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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lovin GVA hanging in there, how much longer can this last?!?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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dsmallwood wrote:
lovin GVA hanging in there, how much longer can this last?!?



He is in the lead group near the top of climb from the look of it. Froome can't be that far back closing.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Nibali breaks it apart. Now the downhill, and hopefully he has a better downhill than the one into Morzine when he gave away the stage! He's one o fthe best decenders normally
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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Henao-Nibali-Majka all in the "medal group" of 3. How much flat do these guys have to ride after the descent. Chase group is only 10 seconds back and looks like Froome is another 10 or so back from that. If the chase group re attaches, then my money is on Rodriguez
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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What a bummer...Nibali and Henao crash in the same spot as Porte...Majka up the road solo!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [crashes!!!] [ In reply to ]
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noooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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cobbles causing bottles to be ejected. crash forcing a final selection. is this a hilly classic or Paris Roubaix?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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I think this all comes together and GVA takes the win. This has been a great race.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [trimick] [ In reply to ]
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Majka has to summon up his pursuiting capabilities!!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ija.z] [ In reply to ]
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ija.z wrote:
Majka has to summon up his pursuiting capabilities!!

It is looking like he might stay away because the group is messing around. I hope he stays away, but I don't think he will.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [trimick] [ In reply to ]
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trimick wrote:
ija.z wrote:
Majka has to summon up his pursuiting capabilities!!


It is looking like he might stay away because the group is messing around. I hope he stays away, but I don't think he will.

Is Belgium going to take this race? Or Denmark? I think they will close on Majka

This is waaaaay better than watching large teams dominate.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ija.z] [ In reply to ]
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Go Greg!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
trimick wrote:
ija.z wrote:
Majka has to summon up his pursuiting capabilities!!


It is looking like he might stay away because the group is messing around. I hope he stays away, but I don't think he will.


Is Belgium going to take this race? Or Denmark? I think they will close on Majka

This is waaaaay better than watching large teams dominate.

I think GVA has to be the favorite if they catch Majka.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [trimick] [ In reply to ]
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wow, what a race. Bravo!

That was the most exciting 20 minutes!!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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GvA gets his first major classics win, despite almost nothing was expected of Belgium from this race. Chapeau
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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I had NBC on the tv, it seems a lot of people were on delay online. funny watching twitter knowing the winner already
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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Wow!!!!!!

What a ride by GvA on that track. So hard. Kept hanging in.

And by Purito and Alaphillipe chasing. And others. That course looked nuts!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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that was just awesome
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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dsmallwood wrote:
lovin GVA hanging in there, how much longer can this last?!?





to the finish, apparently. awesome for Greg.


and what a year. so he got Tirreno-Adriatico, he got Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, he broke his collarbone, get got a TDF stage, he got some yellow, and he got an gold medal. bang!




i was pulling for Majka. he was doing some major "shut up legs" action. glad he got bronze.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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I'm really bummed for Nibali and Henao. If Majka had those 2, I think all three get the medals.

Any news on Porte's injuries?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [heyMartin] [ In reply to ]
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It will be interesting to hear about what happened on the descent that took out Nibali and Henao.

The motorbike camera was a little behind, so we could not see what error caused them to crash. Too bad, because it is likely those three could've stayed away.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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With the GvA win, is Sagan kicking himself for not giving it the old college try?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome win by GvA. That man has guts and determination. He deserved a breakout win. He got dropped on the climb, came back, and even went to the front on the climb. Happy for JF to get silver too.

Many have been joking that Majka didn't know what to do riding out front in the wind (because many call him a wheel sucker), but it really did look like he didn't know what to do. He was on the hoods with his chest up in the wind. Needs to watch some videos of solo victories and do some practice riding time trial style and in the drops if wants to win a race like this.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Sanny87] [ In reply to ]
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ija.z wrote:
It will be interesting to hear about what happened on the descent that took out Nibali and Henao.

The motorbike camera was a little behind, so we could not see what error caused them to crash. Too bad, because it is likely those three could've stayed away.


apparently happened very close to where Porte crashed.


Sanny87 wrote:
With the GvA win, is Sagan kicking himself for not giving it the old college try?

so that he would have GvA outkick him again ;)? why go through all that trouble when you can win a race instead (albeit against bunch of amateurs)

my friend and frequent contributor here, tetonrider is on the podium

Last edited by: echappist: Aug 6, 16 12:04
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Sanny87] [ In reply to ]
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Sagan won the mountain bike race in Utah today he is using as warm up

I definitely want to watch the MTB race
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ija.z] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
It will be interesting to hear about what happened on the descent that took out Nibali and Henao.
The motorbike camera was a little behind, so we could not see what error caused them to crash. Too bad, because it is likely those three could've stayed away.

Maybe the would have. But what was the gap at the time? On broadcast I heard only nine seconds. Henao wasn't going to be very strong pulling on the flat. Majka wasn't going to work. Nibali might have tried to attack not favoring his changes in sprint. So same GvA and JF move might have caught all three.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [H-] [ In reply to ]
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Fuglsang and GvA chasing that closely for a gold, I'd have bet the lead 3 getting caught anyway. Beasts.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisC42780 wrote:
wow, what a race. Bravo!

That was the most exciting 20 minutes!!

I totally agree! Wicked exciting.

I cannot imagine flying down at those speeds and then going from medal contention to on the ground and thinking about all the training/racing going down the drain. From so very high to so low in a split second...and then there will be physical pain to follow...
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder if any of that course is used in the tri bike course?

-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisC42780 wrote:
wow, what a race. Bravo!

That was the most exciting 20 minutes!!

Super exciting! Hope the women's race is just a good. Go Megan Gaurnier!

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Sanny87 wrote:
With the GvA win, is Sagan kicking himself for not giving it the old college try?

so that he would have GvA outkick him again ;)?

why go through all that trouble when you can win a race instead (albeit against bunch of amateurs)



Sagan has 0.0% of coming close to the podium in the mtb race.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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ironclm wrote:
ChrisC42780 wrote:
wow, what a race. Bravo!

That was the most exciting 20 minutes!!


Super exciting! Hope the women's race is just a good. Go Megan Gaurnier!

women's races are often more exciting than the men's race

let's hope that all the ladies get down that hill safely. i have serious doubts as to whether Stevens or Abbot could keep up on the descent.


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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
I'm really bummed for Nibali and Henao. If Majka had those 2, I think all three get the medals.

Any news on Porte's injuries?

Porte is out of the TT with a fractured scapula.

http://rio2016.olympics.com.au/...r-crash-in-road-race
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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No , but the tri course has a descent that is even more technical

Luiz Eng
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
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7401southwick wrote:
Why no disc brakes ? Seems like it would have a good race to demo them again

UCI. And TomA.
'
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
GvA gets his first major classics win, despite almost nothing was expected of Belgium from this race. Chapeau

C'mon.....the Olympics is NOT a major classic.

Huge props to GvA,however....to be able to hang in there with all those flyweights on that course was pretty impressive.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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This course was WAY too dangerous.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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no discussion of the women's race yet?

just for fun: vos, johansson, armitstead.

probably going to be extremely wrong, but i picked alaphilippe to win yesterday and he wasn't far off, so what the heck.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [climber7] [ In reply to ]
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We need a new thread for the women's race. I see Emma Pooley is back racing (and attacking) after her foray into dominating mountainous long course tris!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [climber7] [ In reply to ]
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I'm watching, time for my arvo nap... How long are women's races exciting generally? Last hr?

Vos... Maybe if the others have trouble with the descents, commentators here (prob a bit biased) are saying the Americans are crap descenders? Either way, I'm going Van der Breggen, Guarnier, Niewiadoma (sp), no particular order.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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No exaggeration. Stevens and Abbot are terrible bike handlers. Both got superb engines, but neither is a complete bike racer.

Guarnier is different and has done well in the classics
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Guarnier popped, Vos and Armitstead struggling. Vos was in the break so that's understandable.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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Team Orange looking very very good ending this final climb....please no Nibali replica descents!!!!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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this course probably is too dangerous but DANG its exciting.

another great race. can Abbott get down this hill??????
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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dsmallwood wrote:
this course probably is too dangerous but DANG its exciting.

another great race. can Abbott get down this hill??????



They are on the descent and the Dutch are going to attack Nibali style (minus crashing please)! Abbot already dropped. I heard she crashed on the Mortirolo descent this year.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah battle for bronze is on. And looks like a little rain on the way. Americans also strong but Abbott isolated her own team too quickly, Stevens was on the cusp of returning. Of course, not sure if she could have done anything.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Stupid Canadian coverage....they cut out to commericials on the descent...idiots!!!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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oh my!!!!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Oh god, that looked soooo bad. I think Van Vleuten is unconscious!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ija.z] [ In reply to ]
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I hope she's okay. Wow.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ija.z] [ In reply to ]
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ija.z wrote:
oh my!!!!

Holy sh!t. That didn't look good.

I hope she's alive.......

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ija.z] [ In reply to ]
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Fkkkkkkkk. And on such a silly corner!!!!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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Wow. That was insane! I really hope it looked worse than the outcome will be...

Twitter - Instagram
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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that poor girl. I fear we saw a fatality
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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After going head first into a house at IM Switzerland in 2011, I can't really watch all these riders crash on this descent. I hope she is only "out cold" and recovers normally.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Man that that hurt my neck! Hope shes ok but that looked awfull!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Dirt fighter] [ In reply to ]
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yeah that looked really, really awful. man. hope she's ok.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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dsmallwood wrote:

that poor girl. I fear we saw a fatality



It was aweful. That was exactly my first reaction.


Meanwhile down the mountain Lizzie Armisted looking nicely tucked into a large group with 6 K to go sitting ~35 seconds out of the gold medal.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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well, vos definitely isn't going to win...but my 2 and 3 still have a good shot
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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go USA
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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dsmallwood wrote:

that poor girl. I fear we saw a fatality
Gawd I hope your wrong.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Dirt fighter] [ In reply to ]
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This is shaping up just like yesterday's finish!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Johansson looking good, silver or gold if they catch abbott.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Dirt fighter] [ In reply to ]
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Dirt fighter wrote:
dsmallwood wrote:

that poor girl. I fear we saw a fatality

Gawd I hope your wrong.



I can't get excited about the rest of this race until I know she is OK no matter how exciting this is.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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She may get caught!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Same here. That was really bad. Hope she will be fine.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ija.z] [ In reply to ]
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ija.z wrote:
She may get caught!

well, nuts!

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Archibald] [ In reply to ]
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Archibald wrote:
Same here. That was really bad. Hope she will be fine.

What a finish and gold for the Dutch...but please send us the news from the sound of the mountain.

I am glad that Lizzie Armisted did not medal after skipping her dope tests.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Not a word yet. Or a replay, no bueno, Her team mate brought it home though.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Dirt fighter] [ In reply to ]
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Dirt fighter wrote:
Not a word yet. Or a replay, no bueno, Her team mate brought it home though.

Gotta feel for Abbott too. Same deal as Majka....if their mates who they crested the mountain with did not crash, then they keep the chasers at bay!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Archibald wrote:
Same here. That was really bad. Hope she will be fine.


What a finish and gold for the Dutch...but please send us the news from the sound of the mountain.

If that was a men's race, you'd just assume the Italian was paid off. WTF was she doing completely burying herself to close the gap to the American. The only outcome was going to be bronze at best. Tactically naive.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
If that was a men's race, you'd just assume the Italian was paid off. WTF was she doing completely burying herself to close the gap to the American. The only outcome was going to be bronze at best. Tactically naive.

she seemed very happy at the finish, though...so i guess maybe she just wanted to medal
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dutch commentators got inside info that she's "ok". He was not sure what that meant exactly but yeah encouraging at least.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Dirt fighter] [ In reply to ]
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That was an absolutely awful crash. I wish I hadn't seen it. Heartbreaking for Mary. I hope we get an update on the crash but I'm fearing very bad news.

_____________________________________________________
Instagram | Team Kiwami North America
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Dirt fighter] [ In reply to ]
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According to Twitter, she's OK and receiving medical attention.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Sbradley11] [ In reply to ]
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Another great race, that crash was terrifying

Devastating for Abbott. Both races I could not sit down, Olympics don't disappoint again!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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Read on another site that the team released she was "ok" as well. With emergency rescue, as okay as you can be in that scenario I guess. Hope it was just much much worse looking than it really was.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Archibald wrote:
Same here. That was really bad. Hope she will be fine.


What a finish and gold for the Dutch...but please send us the news from the sound of the mountain.


If that was a men's race, you'd just assume the Italian was paid off. WTF was she doing completely burying herself to close the gap to the American. The only outcome was going to be bronze at best. Tactically naive.

I am guess she did not care what color medal she would get. She wanted to get one of them.

Watching yesterday and today, this must be the ONLY STUPID sport outside of the NFL that intentionally puts the health and lives of their athletes at risk. Look what happened in Whistler with the death of the sledder. I really don't think that descent with the concrete on the sides of the road should have been authorized by the UCI. They should have required the removal of all that concrete with a bulldozer and flattening the edge. If they can spend money on pools, stadiums and bobled tracks they can spend money to fix up cycling race courses at the Olympics. It's a low cost to keep our athletes "safer" You're basically asking the athletes to go downhill at 80 kph beside a 1 foot wall that bounces you over the top if you skid and hit it. STUPID course design. This would not fly in downhill skiing or bobsled or XC skiing.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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I'm confused, so if at best she was 3rd strongest in the chase group, but assuming they make catch of break, the break athlete never usually has energy to jump back in finishing sprint, so why was it bad for her to even "only" race for bronze?

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [RunFluent] [ In reply to ]
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RunFluent wrote:
According to Twitter, she's OK and receiving medical attention.

thanks for the update. My body is still shaking watching that!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [RunFluent] [ In reply to ]
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RunFluent wrote:
According to Twitter, she's OK and receiving medical attention.
Wow! Thank goodness!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Dirt fighter] [ In reply to ]
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My initial reaction from just watching it live [no replay yet].

To me, it seemed as though the front wheel slid into that 1 foot high road barrier and then she flipped over the bars. I don't think her head hit anything at speed [a la Casartelli in the tour 15 or so years ago]. I was surprised at first to see her motionless.

I think she will be OK - that being a relative term.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [RunFluent] [ In reply to ]
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RunFluent wrote:
According to Twitter, she's OK and receiving medical attention.

Thank you for the update. That looked bad.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ija.z] [ In reply to ]
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Just saw the replay, still bad but not as scary looking as the first time.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ija.z] [ In reply to ]
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She actually locked up her front wheel and endo'd into the curb with her spine - probably would have been better off just hitting it but there is nothing you can really do in that scenario.

Video here, not for the feint of heart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnVhdqKvCco
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Per Dutch media the woman who crashed is conscious and in an ambulance.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ija.z] [ In reply to ]
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ija.z wrote:
My initial reaction from just watching it live [no replay yet].


To me, it seemed as though the front wheel slid into that 1 foot high road barrier and then she flipped over the bars. I don't think her head hit anything at speed [a la Casartelli in the tour 15 or so years ago]. I was surprised at first to see her motionless.

I think she will be OK - that being a relative term.


I think if you have been in the sport long enough you watched too many of those. The immediate flash in my head was Casertelli on the Col d'Aspin decent. For those too young to remember 1995:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg2wGZq2Dm4
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Brooks Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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VdB in post race interview: after they saw van Vleuten had crashed, Johansson told van der Breggen they eould chase "for Annemiek". Not sure what past team allegiances are but Emma and Mara are at least in the same trade team, yikes.

Van Vleuten is conscious and talking btw (as told by TeamNL staff)
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [JesseN] [ In reply to ]
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JesseN wrote:
She actually locked up her front wheel and endo'd into the curb with her spine

Yup. That's exactly what I saw, too. Front wheel locked up, endo'ed into the curb. It looked like her body folded on it. Really hard to watch, and I think I'll pass on any replays. Maybe the first time I've yelled out in a visceral reaction watching a crash.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Brooks Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Brooks Doughtie wrote:
I'm confused, so if at best she was 3rd strongest in the chase group, but assuming they make catch of break, the break athlete never usually has energy to jump back in finishing sprint, so why was it bad for her to even "only" race for bronze?

Who knows how strong she was. You're not going to have much if any sprint left if you did all the work the prior km to close the gap to the leader, while the other 2 just sat on recovering to some degree, and therefore almost certainly will outsprint you (unless they were totally knackered or had a diabolically awful sprint).

If the Italian wanted to win she had to force the other 2 to contribute to the chase in that last km.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [JesseN] [ In reply to ]
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Its all easy to criticise after the fact, but when I saw her taking that corner before I was thinking, you can see the road turns riht again, why not swerve left so you can take the wider corner, and bam down she went...
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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Thought she went in chin first but looks like she tucked at the last spilt second and the shoulder and side of he head took the brunt. Shes gonna have one messesed up clavical but thats great compared what was going through my mind at first.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [afrizzledfry] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Maybe the first time I've yelled out in a visceral reaction watching a crash.

I woke up my sleeping toddler in the other room, with a loud "Oh My God". It was just perfectly terrible timing. They were all on the American, and I was wanting to see how aggressive the leader was being with the rain. As soon as they cut to her it happened.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Brooks Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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because he thinks she was better off coming in at best 4th (likely worse with the 2nd chase group catching them) than driving the train to catch abbott and get at worst 4th (likely at worst 3rd as abbott was going to be dead once she was caught).
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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snaaijert wrote:
Dutch commentators got inside info that she's "ok". He was not sure what that meant exactly but yeah encouraging at least.

Up and speaking, etc. phew.....that was horrible.

Can we now move on to the BBC commentator? Can we rip him a new one? Every third word was Lizzie. Lizzie clawing her way back, Lizzie riding courageously, Lizzie JUST CAME SCROSS THE LINE!!!!!! In fifth. Let's see, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Copper?, Quartz? Plastic sample cup?

Sick of the Brit homerism, but I guess people hear enough USA, USA too. I know I do.

This one guy just seemed like a Monty Python skit.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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mag900 wrote:
because he thinks she was better off coming in at best 4th (likely worse with the 2nd chase group catching them) than driving the train to catch abbott and get at worst 4th (likely at worst 3rd as abbott was going to be dead once she was caught).

Well I think when she went to the front and just drove it on her own for most of the last km, there wasn't much if any chance of that chasing group catching them. I guess who knows if they would have started playing cat and mouse. She basically traded 3rd at best for 4th at worst in my mind, not to mention she got used by the other two riders who took gold and silver. No self respecting professional male rider would allow that to happen. I think the saying is, you have to be willing to lose in order to win.

There could be trade team relationships I'm unaware of though, but she basically rode as if she was a team mate of one of the other two riders.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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which part of if she didn't drive the train (1) her group would not have caught abbott and (2) the 2nd chase group would have caught her group (so she would have had to fight it out with 6 other women for 2 medals) do you not understand? the fact that you have throw in some sexist malarkey was strange.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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McNulty wrote:
snaaijert wrote:
Dutch commentators got inside info that she's "ok". He was not sure what that meant exactly but yeah encouraging at least.


Up and speaking, etc. phew.....that was horrible.

Can we now move on to the BBC commentator? Can we rip him a new one? Every third word was Lizzie. Lizzie clawing her way back, Lizzie riding courageously, Lizzie JUST CAME SCROSS THE LINE!!!!!! In fifth. Let's see, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Copper?, Quartz? Plastic sample cup?

Sick of the Brit homerism, but I guess people hear enough USA, USA too. I know I do.

This one guy just seemed like a Monty Python skit.

We got Paul Sherwin and Christian Vandevelde. Sherwin basically focuses on any English speaking rider, so the USA, USA, USA gets diluted with talk about the Brits and Aussies. Vandevelde is a mush mouth and basically slurs every thing together. He really needs to work on slowing his speaking down.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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mag900 wrote:
which part of if she didn't drive the train (1) her group would not have caught abbott and (2) the 2nd chase group would have caught her group (so she would have had to fight it out with 6 other women for 2 medals) do you not understand? the fact that you have throw in some sexist malarkey was strange.

Why was it her responsibility to finish closing it on her own? The other two riders had just as much to lose by not catching the American. All three of them cooperated and closed it to touching distance until that last km when the Italian showed her willingness to do it alone. Tactically she had to force the others to keep working or concede victory which is what she did. You never see that in men's road racing unless there is some sort of ulterior motive for the person to use themselves up. You'd either assume there was a trade team relationship (maybe there is?) or the person was paid off.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Up and speaking, etc. phew.....that was horrible.

Can we now move on to the BBC commentator? Can we rip him a new one? Every third word was Lizzie. Lizzie clawing her way back, Lizzie riding courageously, Lizzie JUST CAME SCROSS THE LINE!!!!!! In fifth. Let's see, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Copper?, Quartz? Plastic sample cup?

Sick of the Brit homerism, but I guess people hear enough USA, USA too. I know I do.

This one guy just seemed like a Monty Python skit.

Thank you! That guy was about as much of a downer on Abbot as you could find. Give the underdog some cred, that was an awesome ride. And yeah, little too much rooting for the person who was way back.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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I'm still confused by your logic. So your calling her out for doing enough work to make sure she gets a medal. You suggest she should have sat in more and sprint for 2nd-4th instead of 1st-3rd?

To sit in and essentially likely miss a medal?

Eta: the girl just got a medal in the Olympics and we have people calling her for insider trading. Only in the reality world of ST is that possible.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: Brooks Doughtie: Aug 7, 16 14:38
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Brooks Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Brooks Doughtie wrote:
I'm still confused by your logic. So your calling her out for doing enough work to make sure she gets a medal. You suggest she should have sat in more and sprint for 2nd-4th instead of 1st-3rd?

To sit in and essentially likely miss a medal?

No, she should have tried to force the other 2 to continue to work with her to finish closing the gap to Abbot. That way they would have all been approximately in an equal state of fatigue and she would have had a chance in the sprint for gold. Could have been they would have messed around and refused to work, but she had to at least try or else she was throwing the race away, which is what she did.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Abbott, Johansson, Longoborghini all ride for Wiggle High5. So in that light they basically enacted an Etixx vs. Stannard scenario ;) Purely trade teams you don't ride of course, unless you have a female Sagan coming up from behind. I agree you have to be willing to lose in order to win but getting on the podium counts a little bit more in the Olympics than at any other race, you do get to bring home some kind of hardware (look at the men's race yesterday, all three medallists were happy). And the other saying is, you have to be at the front in order to win the race ;)
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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A) In case you missed it, she actually did have a chance to sprint for GOLD at the finish.

B) If they all refused to work, my A point would never had happened. They caught her and sprinted 11s from the finish.

ETA: I just completely disagree with your point that she rode poorly. The finish allowed her to finish on podium and *atleast* attempt to go for gold versus cat fighting over sprinting for silver at best. To bring up all that after that bike race, yawn.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: Brooks Doughtie: Aug 7, 16 14:57
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Archibald wrote:
Same here. That was really bad. Hope she will be fine.


What a finish and gold for the Dutch...but please send us the news from the sound of the mountain.


If that was a men's race, you'd just assume the Italian was paid off. WTF was she doing completely burying herself to close the gap to the American. The only outcome was going to be bronze at best. Tactically naive.

Sorry, I have to roll my eyes at the Internet guy main-splaining to the bronze medallist that she's "tactically naive."
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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snaaijert wrote:
Dutch commentators got inside info that she's "ok". He was not sure what that meant exactly but yeah encouraging at least.

That's good to know

So what you guys doing in Mokum tonite?

Also do please tell me you at least picked Anna VdB on the podium. Otherwise i would seem like the one rooting for Dutch cycling
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
snaaijert wrote:
Dutch commentators got inside info that she's "ok". He was not sure what that meant exactly but yeah encouraging at least.


That's good to know

So what you guys doing in Mokum tonite?

Also do please tell me you at least picked Anna VdB on the podium. Otherwise i would seem like the one rooting for Dutch cycling

I still think you were drunk, but you did call it. Nice work.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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McNulty wrote:
snaaijert wrote:
Dutch commentators got inside info that she's "ok". He was not sure what that meant exactly but yeah encouraging at least.

Up and speaking, etc. phew.....that was horrible.

Can we now move on to the BBC commentator? Can we rip him a new one? Every third word was Lizzie. Lizzie clawing her way back, Lizzie riding courageously, Lizzie JUST CAME SCROSS THE LINE!!!!!! In fifth. Let's see, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Copper?, Quartz? Plastic sample cup?

Sick of the Brit homerism, but I guess people hear enough USA, USA too. I know I do.

This one guy just seemed like a Monty Python skit.

Ermmm you know what the first B in BBC stands for right? You are surprised that the commentator paid for by the British TV license payer was making an effort to keep the British public informed about their native competitor?

Great race. LIZZIE gave it a good punt trying to balance effort on the climb with keeping something for the finish, didn't quite work out. Gutted for Abbot after a gutsy ride. Double gutted for van Vleuten.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Archibald wrote:
Same here. That was really bad. Hope she will be fine.


What a finish and gold for the Dutch...but please send us the news from the sound of the mountain.


If that was a men's race, you'd just assume the Italian was paid off. WTF was she doing completely burying herself to close the gap to the American. The only outcome was going to be bronze at best. Tactically naive.


Sorry, I have to roll my eyes at the Internet guy main-splaining to the bronze medallist that she's "tactically naive."

Do you watch professional cycling?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
snaaijert wrote:
Dutch commentators got inside info that she's "ok". He was not sure what that meant exactly but yeah encouraging at least.


That's good to know

So what you guys doing in Mokum tonite?

Also do please tell me you at least picked Anna VdB on the podium. Otherwise i would seem like the one rooting for Dutch cycling


I did, I did: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6031856#p6031856

As far as what's going on in Amsterdam tonight.... there's this thing called "Canal Pride" going on this weekend. I'm sure they're all having a good time, but not because they're cycling enthusiasts ;)

Holland Heineken House should be wild tonight if anyone is in Rio.
Last edited by: snaaijert: Aug 7, 16 15:03
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Update: Van Vleuten has a concussion and three cracks in her spine. She is in Intensive Care. http://nos.nl/l/2123843

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
Do you watch professional cycling?

Is that all that's required to attain pro-grade tactical knowledge - watch on TV? :)

I get it, it's fun. Just like all the armchair quarterbacking on the Internet that takes place in every other sport. Sometimes it's also fun to call a biatch out.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Brooks Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Brooks Doughtie wrote:
A) In case you missed it, she actually did have a chance to sprint for GOLD at the finish.

B) If they all refused to work, my A point would never had happened. They caught her and sprinted 11s from the finish.

ETA: I just completely disagree with your point that she rode poorly. The finish allowed her to finish on podium and *atleast* attempt to go for gold versus cat fighting over sprinting for silver at best. To bring up all that after that bike race, yawn.

A) Effectively she didn't.

B) She never even tried to force them to work. She could have at least tried.

She in reality did not attempt to go for gold, she gave it to one of the other two riders. You can't even argue she thought she had an awesome sprint even when spent and the other 2 didn't have any legs left, because she was happy with the result, not disappointed she got it wrong by effectively being a leadout for the other 2. She gave the race away.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [trail] [ In reply to ]
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The thing is, I still don't understand tactically what she did wrong, because her work ensured she was there in the end. It likely meant she was very fatigued versus the other 2, but she had a shot at a gold medal, did she not?

So I guess what I'm asking is, the tactical thing to do there was to sit up, force others to do the equal work and then likely only sprint for silver? Is that what we are suggesting she should have done? But in reality she made it where she could be there in the finish and atleast attempt to sprint for the gold, and she apparently did it wrong?

I get we all like to arm chair every move, but sometimes we are crying wolf just to cry wolf i think. Her move allowed her to sprint for gold, did it not? She was slightly off but she still was there with atleast an attempt at gold medal sprint, correct? Are we missing that?

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:

Do you watch professional cycling?


Is that all that's required to attain pro-grade tactical knowledge - watch on TV? :)

I get it, it's fun. Just like all the armchair quarterbacking on the Internet that takes place in every other sport. Sometimes it's also fun to call a biatch out.

Basically, it's not rocket science. I use to race as well, but that's not really all that relevant.

If you didn't know at 500 meters that either the Dutch or Swedish rider were going to get gold then you've not been paying attention :)
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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You can't even argue she thought she had an awesome sprint even when spent and the other 2 didn't have any legs left, because she was happy with the result, not disappointed she got it wrong by effectively being a leadout for the other 2.

__________

Then that was exactly why she worked to ensure she could sprint for at worse bronze. If she knew she couldnt sprint, it makes complete sense in my mind to gurantee a top 3 versus waiting and then only finishing 4th. So your reasoning proves to me atleast, exactly why she worked the finish like she did.

If you know you can't outsprint the other 2, and you know this, and there is still one person up the road, I'd say she rode exactly how she wanted to get a medal.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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snaaijert wrote:
Abbott, Johansson, Longoborghini all ride for Wiggle High5. So in that light they basically enacted an Etixx vs. Stannard scenario ;) Purely trade teams you don't ride of course, unless you have a female Sagan coming up from behind. I agree you have to be willing to lose in order to win but getting on the podium counts a little bit more in the Olympics than at any other race, you do get to bring home some kind of hardware (look at the men's race yesterday, all three medallists were happy). And the other saying is, you have to be at the front in order to win the race ;)

Well they were going to catch Abbott if they just kept working and you'd have to figure she'd have nothing for a sprint. I guess I just don't get why she put her head down and buried herself without even trying to get the others to work especially if it was her team mate up the road? So aren't you saying that the riders that got 2,3 and 4th ride for the same team? And the one rider that wasn't on their team got gold? You couldn't fuck it up any worse than that if you tried :)

Johansson and Longoborhini should have been pulling the trade team card and forced that Dutch rider to work or let their trade team member win. Abbott should be super pissed one way or another.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Brooks Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Brooks Doughtie wrote:
The thing is, I still don't understand tactically what she did wrong, because her work ensured she was there in the end. It likely meant she was very fatigued versus the other 2, but she had a shot at a gold medal, did she not?

It's a chess match in real time. Pure game theory. ThisIsIt has a point. She could have started playing games to put herself in a better situation. But it's a game that's very easily armchair quarterbacked.

Mara was legit. Johannson and Van der Breggen looked ragged. You have massive firepower not very far behind, and no race radio to call in gaps. What do you do? Really tough call, but playing games is often a Bad Idea. Road races like this are a series of hundreds of little decisions. Borghini played the game nearly to perfection. Yeah, arguably, in hindsight she could have done better, but anyone who think that the decision was obvious or that what she did was some kind of blunder has probably never raced bikes all that much.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Brooks Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Brooks Doughtie wrote:
You can't even argue she thought she had an awesome sprint even when spent and the other 2 didn't have any legs left, because she was happy with the result, not disappointed she got it wrong by effectively being a leadout for the other 2.

__________

Then that was exactly why she worked to ensure she could sprint for at worse bronze. If she knew she couldnt sprint, it makes complete sense in my mind to gurantee a top 3 versus waiting and then only finishing 4th. So your reasoning proves to me atleast, exactly why she worked the finish like she did.

If you know you can't outsprint the other 2, and you know this, and there is still one person up the road, I'd say she rode exactly how she wanted to get a medal.

Perhaps but you never know the outcome of sprint at the end of hard road race, unless you just buried yourself for the previous km :)
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying ;) Think Omloop het Nieuwsblad 2015. But I think we shouldn't overplay the trade team card here. Johansson told Van der Breggen "we ride for Annemiek" after she saw the bad crash. Hard to really weigh someones words in the heat of the moment, but you don't do that if you ride according to trade team tactics. I don't follow women's cycling enough but the commentators (Belgies ofc) lamented Johanssons gift of always being on the podium at worlds/OG, but never the top step. Is Armitstead faster than Johansson in the situation today? (assuming they were close enough, which, I think they weren't, but imagine you're always getting second/third....you're gonna get nervous)

Honest question. Seems like most women riders are much more allround (probably partially out of necessity) than the male riders. I guess in a flat flat stage someone like a Kirsten Wild or Bronzini? might be the fastest, but in any other scenario there just seems like a whole host of fast-ish women.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
snaaijert wrote:
Abbott, Johansson, Longoborghini all ride for Wiggle High5. So in that light they basically enacted an Etixx vs. Stannard scenario ;) Purely trade teams you don't ride of course, unless you have a female Sagan coming up from behind. I agree you have to be willing to lose in order to win but getting on the podium counts a little bit more in the Olympics than at any other race, you do get to bring home some kind of hardware (look at the men's race yesterday, all three medallists were happy). And the other saying is, you have to be at the front in order to win the race ;)


Well they were going to catch Abbott if they just kept working and you'd have to figure she'd have nothing for a sprint. I guess I just don't get why she put her head down and buried herself without even trying to get the others to work especially if it was her team mate up the road? So aren't you saying that the riders that got 2,3 and 4th ride for the same team? And the one rider that wasn't on their team got gold? You couldn't fuck it up any worse than that if you tried :)

Johansson and Longoborhini should have been pulling the trade team card and forced that Dutch rider to work or let their trade team member win. Abbott should be super pissed one way or another.

yeah, that was so obvious being that it took them until 150m to go to catch her. had they been just a little less organized, then never would have caught her. if she sat up and "made" them work (as you incorrectly assume she would have been able to), that time soft pedaling could have been the difference between catching her and not catching her.

your expert background in cycling also COMPLETELY misses the fact that the 2nd chase pack closed to within 10 seconds of them so any jerking around trying to force the other 2 to work most definitely would have brought the 2 groups together and she would have been sprinting with 6 (or 7) and she's not a sprinter. she did what she had to do to maximize her performance (a bronze with a shot at gold) while you continue posting irrational posts on a message board.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Brooks Doughtie wrote:
The thing is, I still don't understand tactically what she did wrong, because her work ensured she was there in the end. It likely meant she was very fatigued versus the other 2, but she had a shot at a gold medal, did she not?


It's a chess match in real time. Pure game theory. ThisIsIt has a point. She could have started playing games to put herself in a better situation. But it's a game that's very easily armchair quarterbacked.

Mara was legit. Johannson and Van der Breggen looked ragged. You have massive firepower not very far behind, and no race radio to call in gaps. What do you do? Really tough call, but playing games is often a Bad Idea. Road races like this are a series of hundreds of little decisions. Borghini played the game nearly to perfection. Yeah, arguably, in hindsight she could have done better, but anyone who think that the decision was obvious or that what she did was some kind of blunder has probably never raced bikes all that much.


Up above someone posted that all those riders ride for the same trade team except the Dutch rider. WTF? That makes the whole thing 10 times worse.

That might be a little awkward on the team bus.
Last edited by: ThisIsIt: Aug 7, 16 15:51
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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mag900 wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
snaaijert wrote:
Abbott, Johansson, Longoborghini all ride for Wiggle High5. So in that light they basically enacted an Etixx vs. Stannard scenario ;) Purely trade teams you don't ride of course, unless you have a female Sagan coming up from behind. I agree you have to be willing to lose in order to win but getting on the podium counts a little bit more in the Olympics than at any other race, you do get to bring home some kind of hardware (look at the men's race yesterday, all three medallists were happy). And the other saying is, you have to be at the front in order to win the race ;)


Well they were going to catch Abbott if they just kept working and you'd have to figure she'd have nothing for a sprint. I guess I just don't get why she put her head down and buried herself without even trying to get the others to work especially if it was her team mate up the road? So aren't you saying that the riders that got 2,3 and 4th ride for the same team? And the one rider that wasn't on their team got gold? You couldn't fuck it up any worse than that if you tried :)

Johansson and Longoborhini should have been pulling the trade team card and forced that Dutch rider to work or let their trade team member win. Abbott should be super pissed one way or another.


yeah, that was so obvious being that it took them until 150m to go to catch her. had they been just a little less organized, then never would have caught her. if she sat up and "made" them work (as you incorrectly assume she would have been able to), that time soft pedaling could have been the difference between catching her and not catching her.

your expert background in cycling also COMPLETELY misses the fact that the 2nd chase pack closed to within 10 seconds of them so any jerking around trying to force the other 2 to work most definitely would have brought the 2 groups together and she would have been sprinting with 6 (or 7) and she's not a sprinter. she did what she had to do to maximize her performance (a bronze with a shot at gold) while you continue posting irrational posts on a message board.

Of course sitting up could have been the difference. I'm not assuming she would have been able to get the others to work, but it was the only way she was going to win the race. She gave it away by not being willing to lose.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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If you're in a group of three with two riders that you know can out sprint you every day of the week, the prizes go three deep, there's a rider up the road, and the chase behind is closing fast, you bury yourself to secure the podium, and get in the prizes.
A bronze medal in the Olympics goes a long, long way, and puts money in the pocket. 4th place? Not so much.
It's called professionalism.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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So true. Thanks for putting this back on track.

Scott
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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ironclm wrote:
Update: Van Vleuten has a concussion and three cracks in her spine. She is in Intensive Care. http://nos.nl/l/2123843

And apparently responsive, so yay. They're saying 3 minor lumbar vertebral fractures. Whole body CT scan revealed nothing else. All per CNN.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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fredly wrote:
If you're in a group of three with two riders that you know can out sprint you every day of the week, the prizes go three deep, there's a rider up the road, and the chase behind is closing fast, you bury yourself to secure the podium, and get in the prizes.
A bronze medal in the Olympics goes a long, long way, and puts money in the pocket. 4th place? Not so much.
It's called professionalism.

I'll admit I don't know the quality of these riders. Do we know the Italian is a particularly poor sprinter as compared to the others?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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snaaijert wrote:

Honest question. Seems like most women riders are much more allround (probably partially out of necessity) than the male riders. I guess in a flat flat stage someone like a Kirsten Wild or Bronzini? might be the fastest, but in any other scenario there just seems like a whole host of fast-ish women.

Yeah, that's a fair statement, I think. That would have been the case for the U.S. bringing Coryn Rivera, who, if she could get herself over the climb, can clean up the sprint. But I don't think she'd have made the selection today.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
echappist wrote:
snaaijert wrote:
Dutch commentators got inside info that she's "ok". He was not sure what that meant exactly but yeah encouraging at least.


That's good to know

So what you guys doing in Mokum tonite?

Also do please tell me you at least picked Anna VdB on the podium. Otherwise i would seem like the one rooting for Dutch cycling

I still think you were drunk, but you did call it. Nice work.

Thanks. And for the record, i wasnt drunk

The whole caddy steak knives thing is from Glengarry Glenross
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [trail] [ In reply to ]
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There is no WAY Coryn would have made it over the climb in the top group. Hell, Evie and Megan got dropped, and they are way better climbers. Abbott is the best climber in the world, and she blew all but one rider off her wheel. Coryn, sadly would have had ZERO chance on this course.

Edit: I'm also quite shocked at how early Megan got dropped on the climb. Evie hung in for awhile and I thought she had a chance to bridge. Funny how the two who were "didn't deserve to be on the team" were the biggest players for the USA in the race.
Last edited by: sto: Aug 7, 16 17:02
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [afrizzledfry] [ In reply to ]
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afrizzledfry wrote:
ironclm wrote:
Update: Van Vleuten has a concussion and three cracks in her spine. She is in Intensive Care. http://nos.nl/l/2123843


And apparently responsive, so yay. They're saying 3 minor lumbar vertebral fractures. Whole body CT scan revealed nothing else. All per CNN.

Relatively good news and I hope her recovery goes smoothly
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Watching yesterday and today, this must be the ONLY STUPID sport outside of the NFL that intentionally puts the health and lives of their athletes at risk. Look what happened in Whistler with the death of the sledder. I really don't think that descent with the concrete on the sides of the road should have been authorized by the UCI. They should have required the removal of all that concrete with a bulldozer and flattening the edge. If they can spend money on pools, stadiums and bobled tracks they can spend money to fix up cycling race courses at the Olympics. It's a low cost to keep our athletes "safer" You're basically asking the athletes to go downhill at 80 kph beside a 1 foot wall that bounces you over the top if you skid and hit it. STUPID course design. This would not fly in downhill skiing or bobsled or XC skiing.

Good points Dev, I agree. At a minimum, the corners should be lined with crash barricades. The Olympic standard is much higher. How many broken bones in two days of racing? The organizers are lucky they don't have a fatality on their hands.

Hopefully, the triathlon course does not include the same descent?

Scott
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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Has there ever been a race where so many contenders and race leaders have crashed due to the danger of the course?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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GreatScott wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Watching yesterday and today, this must be the ONLY STUPID sport outside of the NFL that intentionally puts the health and lives of their athletes at risk. Look what happened in Whistler with the death of the sledder. I really don't think that descent with the concrete on the sides of the road should have been authorized by the UCI. They should have required the removal of all that concrete with a bulldozer and flattening the edge. If they can spend money on pools, stadiums and bobled tracks they can spend money to fix up cycling race courses at the Olympics. It's a low cost to keep our athletes "safer" You're basically asking the athletes to go downhill at 80 kph beside a 1 foot wall that bounces you over the top if you skid and hit it. STUPID course design. This would not fly in downhill skiing or bobsled or XC skiing.


Good points Dev, I agree. At a minimum, the corners should be lined with crash barricades. The Olympic standard is much higher. How many broken bones in two days of racing? The organizers are lucky they don't have a fatality on their hands.

Hopefully, the triathlon course does not include the same descent?

Scott


It is beyond unacceptable. I have never seen a single stage or one day race with this level of hazard built into the course. The lives/livelihoods of the top professional in the sport were compromised by the IOC. Considering how much the IOC has the organizers spend on facilities prep, this prep of the road course was unacceptable. All those concrete "walls" on the side of the road needed to be flattened and removed with some construction. Seriuosly, imagine a downhill ski race with a 1 foot high concrete barrier at the edges. No way that would meet the standards that FIS sets for the safety of its athletes. I hope team BMC, team Sky and team Astana and the Dutch Cycling Federation take out a lawsuit naming the UCI and IOC for insufficient worker safety precautions in course design. Seriously those concrete barriers were definitely a workplace safety hazard. Its irresponsible to have not removed them with some pro active construction. Would have been easy to do and then place proper padding and FIS downhill caliber netting. The netting looked barely strong enough for mosquitoes.
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Aug 7, 16 17:46
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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fulla wrote:
Has there ever been a race where so many contenders and race leaders have crashed due to the danger of the course?

I disagree with this mindset. That course was as dangerous as the riders chose to make it. That's decending, and bike racing in general. Abbott elected to go at her own pace downhill. It kept her safe and she almost took it all. I thought the course was great. Have to believe that tactical decisions caused most of those wrecks ("I'm gonna bomb this decent for an advantage")- though I can't say that definitively as it seems many of them were off camera.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
trail wrote:
echappist wrote:
snaaijert wrote:
Dutch commentators got inside info that she's "ok". He was not sure what that meant exactly but yeah encouraging at least.


That's good to know

So what you guys doing in Mokum tonite?

Also do please tell me you at least picked Anna VdB on the podium. Otherwise i would seem like the one rooting for Dutch cycling


I still think you were drunk, but you did call it. Nice work.


Thanks. And for the record, i wasnt drunk

The whole caddy steak knives thing is from Glengarry Glenross

Fess up. You were across the street with Roma.

The race played out just like the men's race. Climber gets away chase group roll him/her up on the long flat run in. Abbott rode a hell of a race. Did what she could do. Can't second guess much.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [afrizzledfry] [ In reply to ]
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afrizzledfry wrote:
fulla wrote:
Has there ever been a race where so many contenders and race leaders have crashed due to the danger of the course?


I disagree with this mindset. That course was as dangerous as the riders chose to make it. That's decending, and bike racing in general. Abbott elected to go at her own pace downhill. It kept her safe and she almost took it all. I thought the course was great. Have to believe that tactical decisions caused most of those wrecks ("I'm gonna bomb this decent for an advantage")- though I can't say that definitively as it seems many of them were off camera.

I agree. It's a bike race. The course was not a secret. Narrow roads and fast descents are dangerous. But it's just those types of courses that reward skill. Otherwise we could just put them on trainers and see who has the highest FTP.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [afrizzledfry] [ In reply to ]
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afrizzledfry wrote:
fulla wrote:
Has there ever been a race where so many contenders and race leaders have crashed due to the danger of the course?


I disagree with this mindset. That course was as dangerous as the riders chose to make it. That's decending, and bike racing in general. Abbott elected to go at her own pace downhill. It kept her safe and she almost took it all. I thought the course was great. Have to believe that tactical decisions caused most of those wrecks ("I'm gonna bomb this decent for an advantage")- though I can't say that definitively as it seems many of them were off camera.

Well I disagree with your mindset. Racing means trying to go as fast as possible and yes, that includes risk management and racing on the edge just like they do in short track speed skating, downhill skiing, cross country skiing (the descents and some really gnarly ones). But if you err slightly on the wrong side of the risk balance, does not mean that the course should not be design to the point that an athlete has to chose between racing fast and death/near death. If something goes wrong the course should be designed to minimize the injuries of the athlete that has lot control. Heck in short track speed skating they have pads all the way around the turns so if an athlete looses it at 50-60 kph then don't slam head first into the boards.

I think we want fast racing and a show and we want athletes to take risks where the outcome is win or lose, not win or being incapacitated/career ending/death. Right now Sergio Henao has a broken pelvis. Who knows if he bounces back. He is one of the top climbers around
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [afrizzledfry] [ In reply to ]
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afrizzledfry wrote:
fulla wrote:
Has there ever been a race where so many contenders and race leaders have crashed due to the danger of the course?


I disagree with this mindset. That course was as dangerous as the riders chose to make it. That's decending, and bike racing in general. Abbott elected to go at her own pace downhill. It kept her safe and she almost took it all. I thought the course was great. Have to believe that tactical decisions caused most of those wrecks ("I'm gonna bomb this decent for an advantage")- though I can't say that definitively as it seems many of them were off camera.

Yep. This.

Abbott rode within her abilities and came out better for it.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
afrizzledfry wrote:
fulla wrote:
Has there ever been a race where so many contenders and race leaders have crashed due to the danger of the course?


I disagree with this mindset. That course was as dangerous as the riders chose to make it. That's decending, and bike racing in general. Abbott elected to go at her own pace downhill. It kept her safe and she almost took it all. I thought the course was great. Have to believe that tactical decisions caused most of those wrecks ("I'm gonna bomb this decent for an advantage")- though I can't say that definitively as it seems many of them were off camera.


I agree. It's a bike race. The course was not a secret. Narrow roads and fast descents are dangerous. But it's just those types of courses that reward skill. Otherwise we could just put them on trainers and see who has the highest FTP.


I liked the layout of the course, the cobbles, climbs, descent and finish. And we want the riders to push the limits of each element. My issue is with the surrounding infrastructure. The organizers could have done more to protect the riders. The rider today broke her back crashing into a cement wall / gutter lining the course. Is that really the best we can do?

Speaking to the BBC after the race, Olympic cycling champion Chris Boardman couldn't hold back his views on the course safety. "I’m actually quite angry about it because I looked at the road furniture and thought nobody can crash here and get up".

Scott
Last edited by: GreatScott: Aug 7, 16 18:18
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Well I disagree with your mindset. Racing means trying to go as fast as possible and yes, that includes risk management and racing on the edge just like they do in short track speed skating, downhill skiing, cross country skiing (the descents and some really gnarly ones). But if you err slightly on the wrong side of the risk balance, does not mean that the course should not be design to the point that an athlete has to chose between racing fast and death/near death. If something goes wrong the course should be designed to minimize the injuries of the athlete that has lot control. Heck in short track speed skating they have pads all the way around the turns so if an athlete looses it at 50-60 kph then don't slam head first into the boards.

You're comparing a small indoor arena with an open road mountain descent. It's a ludicrous comparison.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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No not same decent. Does have huge hill and semi sketchy corner, but atleast last year barriers had cushions.

Here is spectacular flip over barrier by Ryan Bailie:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=niGp705XStE

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: Brooks Doughtie: Aug 7, 16 18:21
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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GreatScott wrote:
I liked the layout of the course, the cobbles, climbs, descent and finish. And we want the riders to push the limits of each element. My issue is with the surrounding infrastructure. The organizers could have done more to protect the riders. The rider today broke her back crashing into a cement wall / gutter lining the course. Is that really the best we can do?

What are you suggesting? Line the outside of every turn with hay bails? Possible, I guess. But, as an amateur racer, I see that on crit courses. But I've never seen that on any road or TT course I've ever done, except maybe finishing chutes. Check out the descents in the TdF, Giro. Or the Classics. They're 99% unprotected. Staying on the road is considered a rider responsibility.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Brooks Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Brooks Doughtie wrote:
No not same decent. Does have huge hill and semi sketchy corner, but atleast last year barriers had cushions.

Here is spectacular flip over barrier by Ryan Bailie:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=niGp705XStE

Those are triathletes. That's a whole other deal. :)
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Give him credit, cyclist would have sat up called for team car and quit.

He went on to finish 14th and made Aussie team.


(I kid I kid)

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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rubik wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:

Well I disagree with your mindset. Racing means trying to go as fast as possible and yes, that includes risk management and racing on the edge just like they do in short track speed skating, downhill skiing, cross country skiing (the descents and some really gnarly ones). But if you err slightly on the wrong side of the risk balance, does not mean that the course should not be design to the point that an athlete has to chose between racing fast and death/near death. If something goes wrong the course should be designed to minimize the injuries of the athlete that has lot control. Heck in short track speed skating they have pads all the way around the turns so if an athlete looses it at 50-60 kph then don't slam head first into the boards.


You're comparing a small indoor arena with an open road mountain descent. It's a ludicrous comparison.

No it is not. In XC skiing we have 5-10K loops with lots of descents that are well protected if you crash. Downhill runs are up to 2 miles long. The IOC spends a ton of money on infrastructure. I get it that in the Tour de France or Giro or Vuelta they can't get it "perfect" over 3000K, but here in Rio on only 5-8K of descents, in less than 2K of problem areas they could do a lot better given how much IOC spends on other facilities. A bit more could be spent on rider safety. This was not an open mountain descent in the wilderness of the Dolomites or Sierra Nevada or Hautes Alpes (and you'd never see this set up in any of the Grand tours anyway). Boardman is completely right to be livid about the lack of concern for rider health.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
afrizzledfry wrote:
fulla wrote:
Has there ever been a race where so many contenders and race leaders have crashed due to the danger of the course?


I disagree with this mindset. That course was as dangerous as the riders chose to make it. That's decending, and bike racing in general. Abbott elected to go at her own pace downhill. It kept her safe and she almost took it all. I thought the course was great. Have to believe that tactical decisions caused most of those wrecks ("I'm gonna bomb this decent for an advantage")- though I can't say that definitively as it seems many of them were off camera.


Well I disagree with your mindset. Racing means trying to go as fast as possible and yes, that includes risk management and racing on the edge just like they do in short track speed skating, downhill skiing, cross country skiing (the descents and some really gnarly ones). But if you err slightly on the wrong side of the risk balance, does not mean that the course should not be design to the point that an athlete has to chose between racing fast and death/near death. If something goes wrong the course should be designed to minimize the injuries of the athlete that has lot control. Heck in short track speed skating they have pads all the way around the turns so if an athlete looses it at 50-60 kph then don't slam head first into the boards.

I think we want fast racing and a show and we want athletes to take risks where the outcome is win or lose, not win or being incapacitated/career ending/death. Right now Sergio Henao has a broken pelvis. Who knows if he bounces back. He is one of the top climbers around

i agree completely. it is debateable what is an acceptable level of technicality and crash potential. it is not debatable that measures should be taken to minimise consequences to athletes where there is a significant crash risk. hell, even DH mtb have pads on trees and thats a sport that is all about technicality and crash potential!

some pads on a few spots of that descent would not have been hard to achieve
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Archibald wrote:
Same here. That was really bad. Hope she will be fine.

What a finish and gold for the Dutch...but please send us the news from the sound of the mountain.

I am glad that Lizzie Armisted did not medal after skipping her dope tests.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/...-victoria-pendleton/
I'm disgusted LA was even allowed to start, who the &%@! Misses 3 consecutive doping tests and is still racing?

res, non verba
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [pk1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
pk1 wrote:

i agree completely. it is debateable what is an acceptable level of technicality and crash potential. it is not debatable that measures should be taken to minimise consequences to athletes where there is a significant crash risk. hell, even DH mtb have pads on trees and thats a sport that is all about technicality and crash potential!

some pads on a few spots of that descent would not have been hard to achieve

bingo.

that's nearing the level of negligence on the part of the organizers.
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
i'm surprised no one has brought this up yet.. so i will:

abbot was doing a pretty darn good job holding them off. she had about 8k where she really had to have a solid solo effort.

a few things i thought (and i would love some ST engineering/mathematics here):

if she had:
- longer sleeves on her arm (hers were extremely short compared to the other girls)
- more aero helmet (was hers the most aero?)
- had di2 (vs the cables in the front of her mechanical set)
- more aero frame
- ditched the water bottle (she didn't drink from it once the final 8k)
- rode aero position vs in drop bars

would that have given her the extra few seconds she needed?

i know 8k is not a lot of pavement, but every little bit counts, right? is it possible?
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [RoYe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RoYe wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Archibald wrote:
Same here. That was really bad. Hope she will be fine.


What a finish and gold for the Dutch...but please send us the news from the sound of the mountain.

I am glad that Lizzie Armisted did not medal after skipping her dope tests.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/...-victoria-pendleton/
I'm disgusted LA was even allowed to start, who the &%@! Misses 3 consecutive doping tests and is still racing?

Firstly it is very clear that Lizzie Armitstead made some huge errors over the last year, which have should lead to some very large questions being asked and answered. Both of herself and of her governing body. However your statement above is a long way from true.

As I understand:

Test 1: She was where she told the testers she would be, however the hotel she was in refused to allow the tester access to her room. The tester then made minimal efforts to try and find her. She was then tested the following day. That doesn't excuse her completely, but it does appear as though she was not trying to miss a test.
Test 2: There was no attempt by the testing agency to test her, so she didn't miss her test. However, there are several forms that must be completed for every day stating the athlete's whereabouts and two of those forms gave conflicting information on her whereabouts. As a result the agency were unsure as to which of two places she was in and declared this a missed test. Again, it doesn't suggest that she was deliberately trying to miss the test.
Test 3: She has just cited personal family reasons for missing this test so that doesn't really cut it for me.

I also believe that she was tested extensively over that period as well, so to claim that she missed 3 consecutive doping tests is untrue. A more correct statement would be that out of many tests (more than 20?) a hotel blocked access to her for one, an admin error meant that two testers would have been required to definitely test her and it was therefore easier to just put it down as missed (as per the rules) and therefore she actually only 'missed' one test.

However, her initials are LA, and he never tested positive, so I'm not for one minute saying that she is definitely clean. She certainly won't be gaining any marks for intelligence this year and, guilty or innocent, will likely be tainted as a drugs cheat forever more. Maybe I just want to believe that she isn't taking drugs and am being naive, but once I looked into the circumstances surrounding the 'missed tests' I changed my initial "guilty - burn at stake" verdict to "undecided".
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [mag900] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mag900 wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
snaaijert wrote:
Abbott, Johansson, Longoborghini all ride for Wiggle High5. So in that light they basically enacted an Etixx vs. Stannard scenario ;) Purely trade teams you don't ride of course, unless you have a female Sagan coming up from behind. I agree you have to be willing to lose in order to win but getting on the podium counts a little bit more in the Olympics than at any other race, you do get to bring home some kind of hardware (look at the men's race yesterday, all three medallists were happy). And the other saying is, you have to be at the front in order to win the race ;)


Well they were going to catch Abbott if they just kept working and you'd have to figure she'd have nothing for a sprint. I guess I just don't get why she put her head down and buried herself without even trying to get the others to work especially if it was her team mate up the road? So aren't you saying that the riders that got 2,3 and 4th ride for the same team? And the one rider that wasn't on their team got gold? You couldn't fuck it up any worse than that if you tried :)

Johansson and Longoborhini should have been pulling the trade team card and forced that Dutch rider to work or let their trade team member win. Abbott should be super pissed one way or another.


yeah, that was so obvious being that it took them until 150m to go to catch her. had they been just a little less organized, then never would have caught her. if she sat up and "made" them work (as you incorrectly assume she would have been able to), that time soft pedaling could have been the difference between catching her and not catching her.

your expert background in cycling also COMPLETELY misses the fact that the 2nd chase pack closed to within 10 seconds of them so any jerking around trying to force the other 2 to work most definitely would have brought the 2 groups together and she would have been sprinting with 6 (or 7) and she's not a sprinter. she did what she had to do to maximize her performance (a bronze with a shot at gold) while you continue posting irrational posts on a message board.


this.

Guess what happened in the closing kms of the 2014 championships on ponferrada? Vos, Armitstead, Johansson, and guess who, Longo Borghini established a sizeable gap into the run-in. Guess what happened in that race?

it's funny that thisisit claims to watch a lot of cycling when s/he misses the connection to almost the exact same scenario two years ago
Last edited by: echappist: Aug 7, 16 20:43
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Timtek wrote:
I wonder if any of that course is used in the tri bike course?

Yes. The first circuit which featured cobbles is used in the time trial. However, pavement has been laid down covering half the road and the pavement part will be used for the TT.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThisIsIt wrote:
mag900 wrote:
because he thinks she was better off coming in at best 4th (likely worse with the 2nd chase group catching them) than driving the train to catch abbott and get at worst 4th (likely at worst 3rd as abbott was going to be dead once she was caught).


Well I think when she went to the front and just drove it on her own for most of the last km, there wasn't much if any chance of that chasing group catching them. I guess who knows if they would have started playing cat and mouse. She basically traded 3rd at best for 4th at worst in my mind, not to mention she got used by the other two riders who took gold and silver. No self respecting professional male rider would allow that to happen. I think the saying is, you have to be willing to lose in order to win.

There could be trade team relationships I'm unaware of though, but she basically rode as if she was a team mate of one of the other two riders.

The group cooperated beautifully until the last 800m or so, so it's not like she wasn't working her ass off. Emma, Mara and Elisa all ride for the same trade-team, it's the winner AvdB that's the odd one out - so trade team allegiance isn't the case here.

The part in bold works both ways. Too many world championships were determined by a hesitant chase - if you don't put everything into the chase you won't get to sprint for the medals to begin with... Pauline Ferrand-Prevot's 2014 Worlds win was exactly a case of nobody in a 10-strong chase group willing to do the work.

And if you want an example of "self-respecting male professionals" screwing that up, just look at Valverde in Worlds 2013, letting trade teammate Costa go and screw over national teammate Purito. Or, look at Valverde and Eddie B failing to cooperate at Worlds 2012 to catch Phil Gilbert.

The chasing trio worked perfectly until the catch was certain. After that, you don't always get to choose where you position yourself when there's another chase group behind.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
[quote snaaijertHonest question. Seems like most women riders are much more allround (probably partially out of necessity) than the male riders. I guess in a flat flat stage someone like a Kirsten Wild or Bronzini? might be the fastest, but in any other scenario there just seems like a whole host of fast-ish women.[/quote]
Most of the women's races don't have extreme amounts of climbing in them, but are more similar to "classics-type" courses: short sharp hills, technical sectors. Except for the Giro Rosa, I can't think of a World Cup/Tour course that would really suit a climbing specialist.

Naturally, this lends itself to more of the stand-out female pros being more "Classics Specialist" type all-arounders with a decent sprint. There are a few exceptions - Abbott, Katie Hall and Ashley Moolman-Pasio are examples - but most of the field is on the Classics spectrum, from somewhat-better-climbers like Longo Borghini to the better-sprinters like Armitstead and Vos - and of course the pure sprinters like Shelley Olds, Wild and Riviera.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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rmt wrote:
However, her initials are LA.

Her initials are EA.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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True!! Being a bit dumb there!!!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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ahhchon wrote:

<snip>

- rode aero position vs in drop bars

would that have given her the extra few seconds she needed?

I was thinking this too, and this seemed to be the biggest thing: not a very good 'aero' position on the road bike to do a solo effort like that, and constantly getting up out of the saddle. Compare to the form of the 3 chasers. She basically needed to do an 8k TT -- so ride it like a TT. Get low, get on the rivet, get narrow, head low and just hold it.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [BrianB] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I missed the men's race. Does anyone know where I can buy/watch the full race? Ideally I'd like to download because high resolution and no buffer would be amazing.
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [SBRYYC] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SBRYYC wrote:
I missed the men's race. Does anyone know where I can buy/watch the full race? Ideally I'd like to download because high resolution and no buffer would be amazing.

If you have cable, and it includes the NBC sports network, you should be able to watch the event replay. I did that with the women's race last night, via the Roku app.
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ahhchon wrote:
if she had:
- longer sleeves on her arm (hers were extremely short compared to the other girls)
- more aero helmet (was hers the most aero?)
- had di2 (vs the cables in the front of her mechanical set)
- more aero frame
- ditched the water bottle (she didn't drink from it once the final 8k)
- rode aero position vs in drop bars

would that have given her the extra few seconds she needed?
Deeper wheels? Little hard to see, but looked like she was on 35s, only Longo Borghini was on deeper wheels.
An Evade might have been the next best upgrade.

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [sto] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sto wrote:
There is no WAY Coryn would have made it over the climb in the top group. Hell, Evie and Megan got dropped, and they are way better climbers. Abbott is the best climber in the world, and she blew all but one rider off her wheel. Coryn, sadly would have had ZERO chance on this course.

Edit: I'm also quite shocked at how early Megan got dropped on the climb. Evie hung in for awhile and I thought she had a chance to bridge. Funny how the two who were "didn't deserve to be on the team" were the biggest players for the USA in the race.

This surprised me too. I think Mega would have had a better chance in holding off the three if she'd been the one off the front (but I am more than biased). And agree - Coryn wouldn't have been in the mix at all.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [SBRYYC] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SBRYYC wrote:
I missed the men's race. Does anyone know where I can buy/watch the full race? Ideally I'd like to download because high resolution and no buffer would be amazing.

BBC iplayer
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ergopower wrote:
ahhchon wrote:
if she had:
- longer sleeves on her arm (hers were extremely short compared to the other girls)
- more aero helmet (was hers the most aero?)
- had di2 (vs the cables in the front of her mechanical set)
- more aero frame
- ditched the water bottle (she didn't drink from it once the final 8k)
- rode aero position vs in drop bars

would that have given her the extra few seconds she needed?

Deeper wheels? Little hard to see, but looked like she was on 35s, only Longo Borghini was on deeper wheels.
An Evade might have been the next best upgrade.

oops.. yeah, not deeper wheels. i was just on a roll. ha ha.

but she was caught 150 meters out.. that's not very far at all. i don't know her exact speed, but she couldn't have been going any less than 25mph.

but even at that.. 25mph is about 11.176m/s.

let say the chasers were going 27mph, which is about 12.07m/s

so about 1 meter per second faster. she would have needed a little over 10 seconds to hold them off? i guess she probably wasn't going to gain 10 seconds over the 8k stretch, even with the best aero equipment....

right?
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ergopower] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ergopower wrote:
An Evade might have been the next best upgrade.


You realize these are not weekend warrior MOP triathletes that can just willy nilly slap on any helmet they want, right?

Besides, no Spesh rider (that was in the final at least) was wearing the Evade, not the women, not the men. Probably because it was hot as hell. Good job being aero when your brain is being fried. Only Johansson had the full POC aerolid, but she's Swedish so then it works ;)
Last edited by: snaaijert: Aug 8, 16 16:00
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's a decent list. Looks like Abbott cut her sleeves and shorts shorter than the standard issue, to save weight I guess? If she would have traded some of that weight weeny-ism for aeroweeny-ism it might have gained her a couple of seconds, sure.

But the time gained is rather academic. She might have gained 10s but she was being chased, so they might have chased harder to bridge that gap. This is bike racing, not a time trial. You ride hard you get chased harder. Majka and Abbott should have a little crushed dreams reunion on Ipanema this week ;) at least Majka got a bronze.
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ahhchon wrote:
i'm surprised no one has brought this up yet.. so i will:

abbot was doing a pretty darn good job holding them off. she had about 8k where she really had to have a solid solo effort.

a few things i thought (and i would love some ST engineering/mathematics here):

if she had:
- longer sleeves on her arm (hers were extremely short compared to the other girls)
- more aero helmet (was hers the most aero?)
- had di2 (vs the cables in the front of her mechanical set)
- more aero frame
- ditched the water bottle (she didn't drink from it once the final 8k)
- rode aero position vs in drop bars

would that have given her the extra few seconds she needed?

i know 8k is not a lot of pavement, but every little bit counts, right? is it possible?


Besides the fact that the poster above me mentions (she can't just choose anything she wants as a sponsored trade team/national athlete)...she had electronic shifting on her bike.
Last edited by: James Haycraft: Aug 8, 16 15:57
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
are you suuuuuure about di2? i swear i saw tons of cables on multiple occasions. then again. it was late, i had a few beers and i was really sleepy.
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes, I am sure she had electronic shifting. One thing you didn't mention would be the helmet chin strap.


Last edited by: James Haycraft: Aug 8, 16 16:26
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThisIsIt wrote:
Brooks Doughtie wrote:
A) In case you missed it, she actually did have a chance to sprint for GOLD at the finish.

B) If they all refused to work, my A point would never had happened. They caught her and sprinted 11s from the finish.

ETA: I just completely disagree with your point that she rode poorly. The finish allowed her to finish on podium and *atleast* attempt to go for gold versus cat fighting over sprinting for silver at best. To bring up all that after that bike race, yawn.


A) Effectively she didn't.

B) She never even tried to force them to work. She could have at least tried.

She in reality did not attempt to go for gold, she gave it to one of the other two riders. You can't even argue she thought she had an awesome sprint even when spent and the other 2 didn't have any legs left, because she was happy with the result, not disappointed she got it wrong by effectively being a leadout for the other 2. She gave the race away.

Is nobody her clued into the fact that some people are good sprinters and others aren't? That for some people, no matter how much you make the other work, you're basically still going to get smoked? For sprinters it's like their fast twitch muscles are in a separate compartment and have been on vacation until it's time to sprint. If they are still there, they can still sprint. Perhaps Longo Bourgini is one of those non-sprinters and she knew that no matter what she was going to get 3rd in that group. If she is one of those riders, then she absolutely did the right thing.

Hey, guess what, she's not a sprinter.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/...dal-in-rio-olympics/

From that article:
"...but of course I had to wait for them for the sprint, because I am not a sprinter," Longo Borghini said."

"Instead of a bunch sprint, the race came down to a small group of nine riders and Lizzie Armitstead won the world title for Great Britain. Longo Borghini was in that small group but she could only manage a fourth place behind silver medallist Anna Van der Breggen (Netherlands) and bronze medallist Megan Guarnier (USA). It was a result that she expressed disappointment over while speaking with Cyclingnews at the finish line.

"I think we rode really well, I'm just really sad that until 20 metres to go I was third position but I couldn't really finish off the good teamwork with a medal. I feel really sorry for my national team. It's a hard fourth place for me," she said."

Shocking that a professional cyclist would know more about his or her strengths as a rider than the internet peanut gallery...

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I already addressed that when she was excited for finishing 3rd and not pissed or banging her bars. That proved to me she wasn't a sprinter and rode the ending exactly how she did. Look up a few pages up I think.
ETA: My response to her being "happy" for 3rd at end of race:

Then that was exactly why she worked to ensure she could sprint for at worse bronze. If she knew she couldnt sprint, it makes complete sense in my mind to gurantee a top 3 versus waiting and then only finishing 4th. So your reasoning proves to me atleast, exactly why she worked the finish like she did.

If you know you can't outsprint the other 2, and you know this, and there is still one person up the road, I'd say she rode exactly how she wanted to get a medal.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: Brooks Doughtie: Aug 8, 16 16:31
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
nslckevin wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Brooks Doughtie wrote:
A) In case you missed it, she actually did have a chance to sprint for GOLD at the finish.

B) If they all refused to work, my A point would never had happened. They caught her and sprinted 11s from the finish.

ETA: I just completely disagree with your point that she rode poorly. The finish allowed her to finish on podium and *atleast* attempt to go for gold versus cat fighting over sprinting for silver at best. To bring up all that after that bike race, yawn.


A) Effectively she didn't.

B) She never even tried to force them to work. She could have at least tried.

She in reality did not attempt to go for gold, she gave it to one of the other two riders. You can't even argue she thought she had an awesome sprint even when spent and the other 2 didn't have any legs left, because she was happy with the result, not disappointed she got it wrong by effectively being a leadout for the other 2. She gave the race away.


Is nobody her clued into the fact that some people are good sprinters and others aren't? That for some people, no matter how much you make the other work, you're basically still going to get smoked? For sprinters it's like their fast twitch muscles are in a separate compartment and have been on vacation until it's time to sprint. If they are still there, they can still sprint. Perhaps Longo Bourgini is one of those non-sprinters and she knew that no matter what she was going to get 3rd in that group. If she is one of those riders, then she absolutely did the right thing.

Hey, guess what, she's not a sprinter.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/...dal-in-rio-olympics/

From that article:
"...but of course I had to wait for them for the sprint, because I am not a sprinter," Longo Borghini said."

"Instead of a bunch sprint, the race came down to a small group of nine riders and Lizzie Armitstead won the world title for Great Britain. Longo Borghini was in that small group but she could only manage a fourth place behind silver medallist Anna Van der Breggen (Netherlands) and bronze medallist Megan Guarnier (USA). It was a result that she expressed disappointment over while speaking with Cyclingnews at the finish line.

"I think we rode really well, I'm just really sad that until 20 metres to go I was third position but I couldn't really finish off the good teamwork with a medal. I feel really sorry for my national team. It's a hard fourth place for me," she said."

Shocking that a professional cyclist would know more about his or her strengths as a rider than the internet peanut gallery...


There is only the TT. This "chess game" analogy of bike racing just confuses me. Strengths and weaknesses? Luck, strategy, and timing? Teammates?? WTF!?

TT the STRONGEST MAN WINS RAWRRR.


ETA - errr...or strongest woman. but yea!
Last edited by: James Haycraft: Aug 8, 16 16:39
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ahhchon wrote:
i'm surprised no one has brought this up yet.. so i will:

abbot was doing a pretty darn good job holding them off. she had about 8k where she really had to have a solid solo effort.

a few things i thought (and i would love some ST engineering/mathematics here):

if she had:
- longer sleeves on her arm (hers were extremely short compared to the other girls)
- more aero helmet (was hers the most aero?)
- had di2 (vs the cables in the front of her mechanical set)
- more aero frame
- ditched the water bottle (she didn't drink from it once the final 8k)
- rode aero position vs in drop bars

would that have given her the extra few seconds she needed?

i know 8k is not a lot of pavement, but every little bit counts, right? is it possible?

I think critizing pro men for equipment choices is more acceptable because they tend to have access to what ever equipement there sponsor tends to make. The women tend not to have the same access, so they have less of a choice.
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ahhchon wrote:
are you suuuuuure about di2?
Campagnolo EPS. To be fair, James Haycraft said electronic shifting, didn't mention brand

Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Out the weekend doing a bunch of training before some big stage races and just watched the mens and womens races. A few thoughts in no particular order:

1. The descent was not dangerous at all, some people just used poor judgement and it cost them the race. I see no negligence or issue at all.
2. Why the 10k run in to the finish? Sort or negates the climb to an extent, but also adds a different dynamic, so who knows.
3. I personally find GVA's performance one of the most "questionable" performances of recent time. When your own country suggested you be banned for doping a few yeas ago you know the guy is not clean. I mean come on people look at the list of premium climbers who were dropped and yet he was able to hang on? Still an exciting race in the end.
4. Cancellara was ripping things up again, very impressive.
5. Froome is quickly exposed without his sky entourage
6. Thomas was incredibly impressive for hanging in the front group.
7. Porte once again cannot catch a break
8. I don't think Sagan would have been a factor, people keep saying he would have been fine if GVA could make it, but i doubt that. Top 10 possibly, but GVA produced a 1/1,000,000 performance.
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chaparral wrote:
ahhchon wrote:
i'm surprised no one has brought this up yet.. so i will:

abbot was doing a pretty darn good job holding them off. she had about 8k where she really had to have a solid solo effort.

a few things i thought (and i would love some ST engineering/mathematics here):

if she had:
- longer sleeves on her arm (hers were extremely short compared to the other girls)
- more aero helmet (was hers the most aero?)
- had di2 (vs the cables in the front of her mechanical set)
- more aero frame
- ditched the water bottle (she didn't drink from it once the final 8k)
- rode aero position vs in drop bars

would that have given her the extra few seconds she needed?

i know 8k is not a lot of pavement, but every little bit counts, right? is it possible?


I think critizing pro men for equipment choices is more acceptable because they tend to have access to what ever equipement there sponsor tends to make. The women tend not to have the same access, so they have less of a choice.

i guess Majka and Abbot could have practiced doing IAB. Last 5k of Majka's solo ride was particularly painful to watch. probably would still have been caught, but you never know
Quote Reply
Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chaparral wrote:
I think critizing pro men for equipment choices is more acceptable because they tend to have access to what ever equipement there sponsor tends to make. The women tend not to have the same access, so they have less of a choice.

indeed, some of the men went further still and used non-sponsor product as they can afford it personally or through other arrangements that the higher profile men can get. non-team sponsor wheels were common - aru and kwiatkowski on lightweights, froome on enve to name a few that i'm aware of. interesting that is 2 of 3 from sky - shimano are their wheel sponsors with new dura ace wheels just launched...

women probably don't get much in the way of advice on the best equipment to use either - a combination of that they don't get so many options and the lack of support to educate even within what options they have

regardless, it is always interesting to second guess these things after the fact. as a climber, maybe she focussed on lightweight to get away on the climb rather than thinking about how she would then stay away after that
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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some thoughts on your thoughts, several of them interrelated,:
- i can't comment on whether the descent was dangerous without seeing/riding it myself but there sure were a lot of crashes and many of them resulted in serious injuries thanks to the unforgiving road edge
- the flat run to the finish is what made the race exciting rather than a W/Kg test, just everyone seemed to miss this in the leadup. the flat and cobbles earlier also helped the less climbing oriented riders, there was even a bit of cross-wind action. a race that can be won different ways by different riders. i think it would be really interesting to see how that course would play out if used regularly for top races
- plenty of people in that race have actually been banned before, for some logic i don't fully understand only the russians were barred on the basis of past sins
- cancellara being relatively high up shows that it wasn't all about climbing. he sure is impressive though, will be interesting to see what he can do in a TT that doesn't suit him
- it just wasn't froome's sort of race in either terrain or tactics. can expect him to show well on his own in the TT
- thomas is perhaps the ideal rider for that sort of race - classics man but can climb with the gc guys when hes at his best like last year but not this year. last years thomas might have won this.
- porte unfortunately did catch a break, just an unlucky one
- who knows what sagan could have done, probably better than i expect he will in the mtb but that will be interesting to see too
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Ron_Burgundy wrote:
Out the weekend doing a bunch of training before some big stage races and just watched the mens and womens races. A few thoughts in no particular order:

1. The descent was not dangerous at all, some people just used poor judgement and it cost them the race. I see no negligence or issue at all. Wow you were in the race? How did you do?
2. Why the 10k run in to the finish? Sort or negates the climb to an extent, but also adds a different dynamic, so who knows. One word: Ipanema
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [pk1] [ In reply to ]
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pk1 wrote:
chaparral wrote:

I think critizing pro men for equipment choices is more acceptable because they tend to have access to what ever equipement there sponsor tends to make. The women tend not to have the same access, so they have less of a choice.


indeed, some of the men went further still and used non-sponsor product as they can afford it personally or through other arrangements that the higher profile men can get. non-team sponsor wheels were common - aru and kwiatkowski on lightweights, froome on enve to name a few that i'm aware of. interesting that is 2 of 3 from sky - shimano are their wheel sponsors with new dura ace wheels just launched...

women probably don't get much in the way of advice on the best equipment to use either - a combination of that they don't get so many options and the lack of support to educate even within what options they have

regardless, it is always interesting to second guess these things after the fact. as a climber, maybe she focussed on lightweight to get away on the climb rather than thinking about how she would then stay away after that

even with the campy eps, damn, there is a lot of brake cable showing. a cleaner front setup would be nice.

i understand all the politics and funding behind the womans team. it's just sad. you figured their sponsors would give them the best equipment for race day.

-just checked colnago's site. not a single frame has a clean brake cable setup... i guess they gave her the best she had. i don't understand why more american teams don't go and try to sponsor american riders.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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snaaijert wrote:
Ron_Burgundy wrote:
Out the weekend doing a bunch of training before some big stage races and just watched the mens and womens races. A few thoughts in no particular order:

1. The descent was not dangerous at all, some people just used poor judgement and it cost them the race. I see no negligence or issue at all. Wow you were in the race? How did you do?
2. Why the 10k run in to the finish? Sort or negates the climb to an extent, but also adds a different dynamic, so who knows. One word: Ipanema

I don't need to be in a race to comment on a stretch of road that clearly 98% of people had no problem navigating but a small few struggled because they were pushing the limits and or poor handling. Dangerous is something over the top or clearly posing posing a risk to riders, this was neither.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Alright lets give the predictions one last crack, who does everyone have for the TTs? I'm going full homer mode, AvdB and Dumoulin. Minor medals for Stevens, Moolman, and Froome, Kiriyenka on the mens.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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Oef, heavy wind and rain. All bets are off. Could see some big surprises in the TT today. Just hope no serious crashes.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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Happy that Armstrong knocked Zabelinskaya off the top step. But van Dijk! Wtf... She went off road uphill, dismounted and got back, that was AT LEAST 15s lost. Would have been a medal for sure, at the cost of van der Breggen prob.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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Some early observations for the mens tt: craven haha, just road bike, nothing fancy. Looks like a tourist commmercial in some closeup shots ;) Vuillermoz...wtf? Focus road bike with clip ons. France /ag2r on hard times?

Roads have dried up a little bit, thankfully. Wind still blowing.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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I'll come and give you some company :-)

Fantastic even as a non-American to see Armstrong winning 3 in a row. That's a hell of an achievement and gives hope to me that I'm not completely past it at only 41 years of age!

Men's TT going to be fascinating. Think the winds could give the heavier riders like Cancellara and Martin a chance? Think that Dumoulin might struggle with his wrist given a fairly technical course. Always thought Froome seemed like a very GC TTer not an Olympic or World champion TTer, but with this course and the form of his rivals he's got a very good shot.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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Haha thanks ;) yeah with Froome I'm wondering if he is better or worse at longer TTs, like these at 50k with some elevation. We've all seen the TdF TT's, but they were almost tailormade for him. I can't recall what the course was like in London.. Of course Froome has come quite a way since then.

Agree on the Armstrong performance, looked like she was dying at second time check but reeled it in in the last section.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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London course went within 50m of my house so I remember it well! Pretty flat course, some rollers but nothing that would really class as a hill, even in the UK. Would have been perfect for Martin/Cancellara, but from memory the former was nursing a broken wrist from the TdF, and the latter crashed in the Olympic Road Race. So Froome's medal was probably a little bit flattering, and even at the time I remember being surprised that he'd beaten Phinney.

I'm not sure how much Froome has come along since then, at least in terms of raw speed. Obviously has stepped up in terms of responsibility, and his tactical and race awareness has improved hugely, but not sure he's any faster on a TT now than he was 4 years ago. Maybe a better bike handler now which could help him on this course.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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Watching on cycling Hub, stupid xfinity/comcast account wont let me sign in on my work computer.
Same commentators for me as the road race watching online.

Rain should make things intertesting
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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she turns 43 tomorrow, actually.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [sto] [ In reply to ]
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sto wrote:
she turns 43 tomorrow, actually.

I'm sure she'll be having an awesome birthday celebration then! I've still got nearly 9 months of being 41 to enjoy, but suspect by the next Olympics the only athletes older than me will be the equestrian riders and fencers :(
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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snaaijert wrote:
Alright lets give the predictions one last crack, who does everyone have for the TTs? I'm going full homer mode, AvdB and Dumoulin. Minor medals for Stevens, Moolman, and Froome, Kiriyenka on the mens.

Dumoulin, Froome, Coppel

The damn thing is long, like 1hr 20 min. Contador would have done well here
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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How do they decide the start order? Saw somewhere that Froome goes last based on GB (Wiggins) winning the last Olympics, but on that basis how come Dumoulin gets to go later than Martin who finished second in London? Is there some sort of pecking order between reigning Olympic champion, winner of TdF ITT (Dumoulin), World TT Champion (Kiryienka)?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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Did the lady announcer just say they were rung a 55/36 upfront? Wonder how that shifting is....
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Cancellara fastest through first check so far, Martin already well down
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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Martin also has some rain hitting him that Fabian didn't have. Some of the roads are noticeably wetter now than they were, will be interesting to see how it affects the riders at the end.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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Dumoulan quite a bit down on Spartacus' time. Iiiiiiinteresting!! Froome even slower, slower still than G, but has been known to set out steady and pull it along later in the ride.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [bujayman] [ In reply to ]
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Could be. Froome also surprisingly slow through that first check given that there was a fair bit of climbing which should suit him
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Cancellara is known to go out hard and really lose steam (see 2013 world championships in Firenze). Wiggo made up a lot of ground in the final kilometers.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone suggest any logical reason why Dennis needed calories after 30 minutes of riding?!! Surely they have enough glycogen for an hour and a quarter of cycling?!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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fabian running zipps????

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Willi3ja] [ In reply to ]
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Willi3ja wrote:
Did the lady announcer just say they were rung a 55/36 upfront? Wonder how that shifting is....

I run a 52/34 compact on my tribike and have no issues....only a 1 tooth difference vs. the differential that Cancellera is running.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
Willi3ja wrote:
Did the lady announcer just say they were rung a 55/36 upfront? Wonder how that shifting is....


I run a 52/34 compact on my tribike and have no issues....only a 1 tooth difference vs. the differential that Cancellera is running.

52Q-ring with 34 round... not an issue either

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Fabian catches Mini-Phinney.....he is on a stormer (and Phinney is having a bad day, clearly).

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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that hurt to watch. I was reading how Phinney considered retirement, but Olympics revived him. He is suppose to ride the Vuelta and then transfer to Cannondale next year.

This wont sit well with him
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
Anyone suggest any logical reason why Dennis needed calories after 30 minutes of riding?!! Surely they have enough glycogen for an hour and a quarter of cycling?!

Just because glycogen depletion takes that long doesnt mean that you'll operate optimally 40 min into the race without additionsl sugar
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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It doesn't look as though Kiriyenka is enjoying the hills either...
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [aw3] [ In reply to ]
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Fabian is ON!

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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Yup! Looking very good. Have to have him as favourite now.

Edit: maybe a clue there as to how Fabian made so much time back, Dennis has just swapped bikes. Tony M way off.
Last edited by: knighty76: Aug 10, 16 8:27
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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that was after the time check

SUCKS for Dennis

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I figured that, but possibly indicative of a problem which might have slowed Dennis leading up to the swap? Looks like knackered aero bar.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like Dennis' left aerobar broke.....

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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Missed what happened to Dennis!

Anyone watching on TV? NBCSports or NBC? who are the commentators?
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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aero bar on the left broke (it seems)

Fabian race to lose as it is right now!

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Holy hell, I'd never have picked FC but he's putting it on everyone. Perfect course for him with technical descents but his pacing also looks spot on. Would be a legendary way for him to retire.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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Froome inching up the placings a bit, up to 4th now so if he's paced himself well could be in for a medal, but hard to see it being gold unless Cancellara has really overcooked himself which seems unlikely.

Seems the tricky conditions favour the wily older riders today!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Holy hell, I'd never have picked FC but he's putting it on everyone. Perfect course for him with technical descents but his pacing also looks spot on. Would be a legendary way for him to retire.

I also tho the rain would favor him but never tho he would win it!

amazing ride so far!

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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Seems like the medals are going to fabu, Dennis, Dumoulin, with Froome challenging
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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carl is he running zipps ?

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
Last edited by: LuisDF: Aug 10, 16 8:41
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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SPARTACUS - BANG

What an excit from the big stage!

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ToBeasy] [ In reply to ]
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what a way to retire!

Fabian = LEGENDARY!

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ToBeasy] [ In reply to ]
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Fab is FAB!

Wow! Grand Chapeau!

And brings out the old Jan Ullrich hands-down front end position for the win!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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Legend is the word that came to mind for me too. Perfect course and conditions for him. Chapeau.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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 Great win to top off a great career
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, and a triple Chapeau to Kristin Armstrong for an unprecedented 3rd straight ITT Gold Medal win for the women!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Fab is FAB!

Wow! Grand Chapeau!

And brings out the old Jan Ullrich hands-down front end position for the win!

weird hand position, on some hills he seemed to get leverage from under while on the flats looked pretty normal I am guessing that it all depends where u put your hands.

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Daaaang! That was a ride!

Dumoulin...is a cracked wrist worth 47 seconds?
And Dennis...a bike change is surely more than the 8 seconds to get a medal... Oy!

A tight grouping for silver and bronze chasing a dominating gold seems to be a trend in these Olympics!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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That was the ultimate mic drop. Peace out, peloton!
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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That was the ultimate mic drop. Peace out, peloton!

Indeed, nothing beats going out on top, in a discipline (ITT) that really defined his career. It was not an enormously deep field, but Fab did have to beat Froome and Dumolin for the win, two very on-form riders, who had clearly shown that great form only a week or so ago at the Tour de France,


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisC42780 wrote:
that hurt to watch. I was reading how Phinney considered retirement, but Olympics revived him. He is suppose to ride the Vuelta and then transfer to Cannondale next year.

This wont sit well with him

He'll have fun at Cannondale next year with some buddies and this will all be forgotten. I hope..... damn, what a whuppin'.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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damn, what a whuppin'.


Indeed.

Tough day for Taylor Phinney - 4th in London, 4 years ago, and very outclassed here.

But to come back after what he's been through and get back to even this level, is a massive accomplishment.

That was a career-ending crash for most.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
It was not an enormously deep field

Not deep? Dumoulin, Froome, Panzerwagen, Phinney (fwiw), Thomas, Rohan, Kiryenka, et al.

There are no heavy hitters missing, off the top of my head. Wiggins, of course, but he's making left turns somewhere.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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hed on the front, zipp on the back and hand position looks fairly normal :D




The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
That was the ultimate mic drop. Peace out, peloton!

Indeed, nothing beats going out on top, in a discipline (ITT) that really defined his career. It was not an enormously deep field, but Fab did have to beat Froome and Dumolin for the win, two very on-form riders, who had clearly shown that great form only a week or so ago at the Tour de France,

Not enormously deep? Who wasn't there?

I wouldnt't say ITT defined his career though. For a Tony Martin, yes, but Cancellara to me is equal TT machine and Classics specialist.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Not a good course for Phinney.

I'll predict Worlds TT now: Dumoulin wins, Phinney on podium.
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Re: Olympic Road cycling thread [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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obviously not a fan of bontrager wheels!
i'd really love to see a list of who swapped from and to what wheels when freed from trade team sponsors across RR and TT, might be some interesting patterns there (which some manufacturers might be quite displeased by but others would love)
LuisDF wrote:
hed on the front, zipp on the back and hand position looks fairly normal :D


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