were you at special forces?
did you get a trust set up?
a buddy and i had them draw up the paperwork last week for $100. super easy.

---

ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ
we're doomed

Now that I'm just about out of the military and not moving all over the place a suppressor and a short barreled rifle is on my short list.

No. The only reason I didn't get one going is the desire for a trust.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

What's the rationale?

From a self-defense/home-defense perspective, I want loud-ass muzzle blasts. Intimidation - want to leave no doubt as to the magnitude of the response.

Because this is America and I can. I also hate wearing hearing protection which when I go shooting in the desert, no rules require, but the sound of gun fire necessitates. There was only the cool factor until I started shooting in the desert, now there is a legit reason for one.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Believe it or not, there is a real reason for it in HD. Have you ever shot a gun in an enclosed area without hearing protections. Think about that for a minute. You shoot a .357 magnum or higher caliber and you will be deaf. If there are multiple assailants, you will not hear them, you also will not hear family members id themselves for a few minutes. We're also talking about taking the sound to 122 db, maybe 80 depending on the caliber and suppressor. You are not going silent like in the movies unless you are using a .22.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

don't know the validity of this intel, but something to think about: my buddy and i had been planning on setting up a trust for a while. we were at the twin peaks last week and figured let's just go do it, so we did. i'm going to butcher the details on what i was told i'm sure, but you'll get the gist. dude in the shop was saying earlier this year the dem's were trying to stop the ability of trust's to have suppressor and short guns assigned to them. or something along these lines. he said he thought there would be a vote on it again come december.

---

ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ
we're doomed

They have been going after trust forever. I think there were some trust changes. You may have to get fingerprinted now.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

This made me think of you:

---

War is god

Sad part is ruger would do that.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Stop bragging about how you live in free state where you can make such purchases.

Cashed out my employment at my last start up and became a consultant for their us takedown. So I had some extra cash. I liked my p320 so much I'm building t a suppressed gun around that platform.

Won another p320 compact on gunbroker for 100 less than I could buy it local. It comes threaded with suppresor night sights. I bought a carry grip module just in case I want a full size handle. I skipped on the full size slide as I always preferred pistols with slides and barrels at the 4 inch range anyways. Got my paperwork for my trust and it will get filed this week. So it will just be a matter of getting around to buying the tri rant can. I like that one do to its ability to swap calibers and maintain so it will have a long life.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

No you don't. Not to attack you personally but it's amazing how ignorant people are on this subject. Hearing provides you with situational awareness which is paramount in an HD scenario. If you fire anything 9mm and up indoors without hearing protection, your hearing will be severely compromised at best and you may very well be deaf.

A suppressed weapon using super-sonic ammo (which is the vast majority of ammo) is still going to be really friggin loud.

Not to mention you're shooting at someone. There really shouldn't be much doubt about the magnitude of the response on the part of whoever it is you're shooting at.

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I'm NEVER going back to the indoor range again for rifle. Some jack weed was blasting his Remington 700 with a muzzle brake next to me and wear in ear suqishys + very high quality ear muffs. Every shot the entire range looks over with a collective 'ass hole!'.

Any thoughts on what you are going to get? The Sig branded ones are $700 retail. Gulp. Please post whatever you end up with and cost etc. Thanks. Did you hear that it's legal to hunt with them now in FL? Going on a hog hunt in Feb with a guy who has one on his DDM4 interested to see/hear it.

I like the sigs but none of my preferred dealers have them. They aren't as common. So I'm stuck between an osprey or a tri-rant. The osprey's beauty is in the eye of the beholder I tues. I think it is fucking ugly. So I'm going with the tri-rant. Made by advanced armament.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

I like to go shooting in the mountains in the middle of no where and it would be nice to have one. I haven't been motivated to jump through the hoops and spend the money.

Yeah, sorry bout that... My m70 300 wsm with brake is a loud one but it shoots like a dream.

Why the hell would you need a brake on some wimpy ass caliber like 300wsm?

Firing those setups indoors is not fun to be around

From a self-defense/home-defense perspective, I want loud-ass muzzle blasts. Intimidation - want to leave no doubt as to the magnitude of the response.

You're joking, right? Confined centerfire report is not just loud, it hurts. Granted, I'd rather be hearing impaired than dead, but you're rationale is really misguided. A better tactic (for leaving "no doubt") is to place the projectile where you are aiming.

edit: correct shit spelling.

No, brother. I'm all about the sound. The sound of the pump on the Model 870 Remington. The sound of the pump is one of nature's universal warnings sounds. Like the rattle on a Diamonbback, or the the growl of a grizzly It's You can take your adorable little cutside gun-guy doo-dads. I get it. It's fun to buy "tactical" stuff and play Counterstrike. . I'm going with a very unsilenced Model 870.

Shaking my head. Post 24, man. Situational awareness. LOL. Oooh, talk more military jargon, man. In home defense my Model 870 is creating "the situation".

Also, unfortunately, from a legal situation, it's probably usually better to have shot-or-killed someone with a gun that doesn't have a suppressor. It could create a lot of dumb questions during the investigation into the death afterwards. The lawyer of the victim will make a big deal about why you had a Class 3 device, and were playing Special Ops guy.

I've never been to an indoor range but I have no doubt it would be miserable. Can't really imagine firing such a rifle indoors anyway. No indoor ranges with 100 miles that will allow such a gun so I likely won't have to worry about it.

I'm delicate.

They don't have to know. You take the thing off and put it away. Put the thread cap back on. It's not like a suppressor has a time stamp on it.

Fortunately florida and arizona's laws are pretty good even if you leave it on. Castle doctines pretty much shield you from civil penalties unless there is a narrowly defined exception. Like shooting somebody who was a guest, shooting somebody who walked in your unlocked door by accident. Or shooting a cop. All of these are also criminal penalties. So if a shooting in defense of ones home doesn't result in arrest or prosecution, it sends a strong signal to ambulance chasers that it would be a waste of time.

Also, I have heard this a lot. That having items beyond common calibers are a bad thing in criminal and civil trials. I've been guilty of this to. So far, I have yet to see it play out that way. It is either legal or it isn't. If you are arrested you usually have more important things to worry about then the type of ammo you use or modifications to your gun. Yes , using a standard 9mm is probably the least hassle. But there are few juries sympathetic to burglars shot in one's home. And castle doctrine laws pretty much reinforce such. In florida, some guy created a death zone to catch vandals who were regularly stealing from his home. This amounted to execution in the media, yet he was found not guilty. Where you could run into trouble is shooting to many shots or a shooting that looks like an execution. This is why I would argue against using a .22 for self defense. It would take a lot of center mass shots to kill/stop an immediate threat with a .22. Juries, see bullets as bullets. Trust me, I know this personally. I would much rather be on trial shooting somebody three times in the body with a high caliber bullet than 20 times with a .22. And I wouldn't advise you stop them then finish them. This was an odd thing I was taught in a shot gun class. This guy recommended a lighter buck shot or even bird shot to stun an intruder, followed by 00 buck in the magazine followed by a slug. This would look like a premeditated murder. Needless to say I didn't recommend that instructor.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

I will never understand this line of thinking. If I'm in a situation where I need to be pointing my shotgun at someone, you are not getting a warning to alert you of anything.

Place is fairly unique for FL not sure about the northern folks maybe these football field indoor ranges are more common. You can drop the hammer in this place all the way up to an 82A1.

http://www.shootersworld.com/...nge/rifle-range.aspx

A warning is one thing. Worrying about your gun not being noisy enough to scare the bad guy when you actually start shooting at him is pretty dumb, though.

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I'm genuinely not worried about being criminally prosecuted for shooting and killing an intruder. With regards to civil action, I'm more concerned with surviving a home invasion and defending my family than dealing with a scum-bucket lawyer.

The situational awareness thing is real. I probably spent 200 hours between Triple Canopy and CQD. One of the simulations we ran repeatedly on one trip was a home defense scenario where there were an unknown number of assailants (2-6). We alternated between wearing no hearing protection and wearing remotely triggered electronic hearing protection. In the latter case, after we fired our first shot the hearing protection was triggered and you couldn't hear shit. Guess how much worse our success rate was when we couldn't hear?

As an aside, simmunition hurts like a mother. It also doesn't cycle too reliably :p

Frankly, the suppressor laws we have in this country are nuts... and that's coming from a person who generally supports a bit more gun regulation.

You did some stuff with triple canopy. I applied for a position with them as an accountant early on. Got an interview despite not being a veteran, but it didn't go beyond there because a higher up overruled the exception.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

A guy I shot with once told me if hearing is that big of a concern, use the electronic ear muff. He was a retired special forces guy with bad hearing. Said the suppressor probably wouldn't help him in his case, instead the muffs had two benefits. One it would filter the sound, but it would also enhance the sounds you would want to hear. He had a point.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Once you buy a suppressor, you will wonder why it took you so long.
Make sure you get one for a .22 because it's the most performance for the cost.

That's true and they are very effective but not practical for a home defense scenario. The sooner you have your gun up and at the ready the better.

The only .22 pistol I have is a mk iii. So he only cans I see for those are integrated.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Do you have 22 bolt action rifle?
A threaded 22 pistol and rifle, in the grand scheme of things, isn't extravagant.
You know I'm right, and you know you will be happy if you do.

I have a 10/22 and have considered buying a takedown. But I also have an old mossy bolt action pre serial number. But that isn't suppresor compatible. I've been told once you get one they become an addiction. I'm fairly certain I'll get a .308 can next. My sig 556 is already qd suppresor ready. I might even she my lmt since it has the quick detach barrel. Now that I think of it, one of my fn fals has a qd ready barrel.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Just get the rifles threaded. You will not regret it.

Hearing protection is way different than a suppressor. But, in any case, you should probably be then recommending that all HD kits have a pair of high-end electronic range 'muffs. Takes 2-3 seconds to put on. That way you get the benefit of hearing protection without affording the bad guys the benefit of noise protection you'd be giving them with a suppressor. Damage their situational awareness without damaging your own. Tactical win-win.

Cheaper. Legal-er. Doesn't impair your ability to get the weapon ready. More effective at sound protection (cuts the sonic crack that suppressors don't). Still get to scare the bejesus out of the bad guys, possibly, with your muzzle blast.

Just not as cool.

Are you joking? Why on earth would you suppress a .22? You gonna go all Bourne on that nuisance gopher who's been tormenting you?

Doing that simulation as many times as I did, I would never take the time to put on hearing pro. It was enough of a struggle to get out of bed, grab a weapon, and assume a defensive position. We weren't simulating plenty of warning. We were simulating, in some circumstances, having assailants at the bedroom door before we had any warning. More commonly we had 5-8 seconds if I had to estimate (this was about five years ago).

Because it is fun.
Because I can shoot 22 all day without hearing protection; suppressed centerfire is loud enough that a person should still wear some form of hearing protection.
Have you shot suppressed?

What kind of 22 do you have? I had a Sig TrailSide I sold about 5 years ago wish I hadn't that thing was so much fun to shoot and so cheap. Once it was discontinued it took on collector status and hard not to sell at that price when I wasn't shooting it much.

Browning Buckmark. They make a factory threaded version, and TacSol makes after-market threaded barrels.

I'd question the aptitude of someone (a lawyer?) who claims to be able to draft a gun trust for only $100.

It is a pretty simple document. For an attorney to put his license at risk to issue such documents must mean it is low risk. What do you think most attorneys do standard form,
Just like most accountants do.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

For those who don't know, like me, what are you talking about with a trust?

Owning class 3 firearms is a little more difficult. Transferring them to family members after death is a pain in the ass. A trust allows you to:

1. Avoid fingerprinting and law enforcement approval at purchase. As it is an entity that owns the. Companies can serve the same purpose if you own one

2. When you die anybody listed on the trust can legally take possession.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

OK, thank you. I thought the trust might have something specific to do with the supressor.
John

Isn't a 'suppresor' some sort of device to enhance your manlyhood?
I thought those were single use?

Those damn pictures too.

Suppress everything. Look into the http://www.savagearms.com/...rms/model/MARKIIFVSR , too much fun with a can on it.

I have a FV-SR, it's a great grouse gun. Just bought a SR22 to replace it.

How did this thread get this far without any mention of the 300 Blackout round? If you have an AR, all you need is a 300 Blackout upper since it works with the same lower as the .223/.556 round. Get your suppressor that will fit both uppers, .223 & 300 Blackout. Buy some subsonic .300 Blackout rounds. The only sounds will be the bolt cycling and the thud of the round on impact. Go to YouTube and do a search and you will see what I mean.

The only downside is the cost of 300 Blackout rounds, still about 70 cents/round on ammoseek last time I checked.

Greg

---

If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

 
Both my lmt and my sig 556 convert to .300 AAC with quick change barrels. I don't even need to change the upper with that said, that is more of a cqb round. You are basically shooting something a slower am round which is already IMHO not ballistically the best round beyond 100 yards. But I'm also focused on handgun. The purpose for suppressing a rifle is very different than handguns.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Yup, .300 blackout is not cheap :/ The other downside is that it is super hard to keep it subsonic out of a 16" barrel. The other thing you're going to want with .300 blackout is an adjustable gas block. Pressures are all over the friggin map on that round. I'd strongly recommend carbine length gas on a 16" barrel with and adjustable gas block. If you really want to be sure the rounds remain subsonic but don't want to go through the extra fee and paperwork for an SBR, get a ~14.5" barrel with a pinned/welded muzzle device that's compatible with your suppressor.

This is actually where the Sig 556 is better. You would still have to SBR it to keep it subsonic, or you could reload at a light charge, but that could have undesirable impact on performance. But the 556 has a better gas regulator and adjustment system. I never converted my LMT to a piston model. But I don't think the common piston regulators on AR platforms are that robust. I could be wrong, just never educated myself on that.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Frankly, the AR was never designed to be a piston driven platform and the vast majority of piston driven ARs are less reliable than their DI counterparts. The notion of a piston driven AR reducing fouling issues also really overstated. First, the fouling shifts to a different point in the system: namely the gas block. Second, pistons do not address fouling of the bolt and barrel extension that results from increased back pressure (no system can). People believe piston driven ARs run better suppressed because they pull their bolt carrier and say "look how clean it is" and, because they usually have an adjustable gas block, recovering from fouling seems easy: just open up the gas block a bit. The same could be done with an adjustable DI gas block.

The real reason I'm opposed to using a piston driven system on an AR though is the failure mode of the op-rod. Compare the op-rods of an AR and an AK some time. The op-rod of an AK is STOUT and for a good reason. Op-rods on an AR? They're rather slight. A common failure mode is for the op-rod is to warp and, in some cases, crack. In the field this is a catastrophic failure along the same lines as a cracked bolt and possibly worse. This is actually an issue for the M249 SAW and I know of at least one soldier who lost his life because the op-rod warped and he wasn't able to remedy the situation in the field (Petty Officer First Class Neil C. Roberts).

Personally, the only piston driven AR I'd ever buy would be from LWRCI and that's simply because of its very novel self-regulating design. Also, their pistons and op-rods are made from 4130 and they take great care to stress relieve them properly.

I bought my lmt with the intention of converting it. But it worked so flawless and regular cleaning isn't an issue for me. Also, unlike other Liston driven guns like the fal, ak, or 556, the piston seemed flimsy and not contained in its own tube. So I could see how something unrelated to shooting could interfere with it.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

LMTs are so nice! Leave it be! :) That reminds me, I wonder if they still make that enhanced bolt....

Yeah I didn't even broach the fact that a piston imparts uneven force onto the BCG. With DI the force is imparted straight back through the center of the BCG. With a piston the force is imparted toward the top of the BCG which "tilts" the BCG slightly to take up whatever slack there is between the BCG and the upper receiver. The result of that friction is that you'll slowly wear out your upper receiver (something that never happens with DI) and you'll also slowly damage your buffer tube. The latter problem was severe enough that H&K decided to design their own buffer tube for the 416. PWS also designed their own buffer tube but they also made a few other changes such as making it out of a stronger grade of aluminum, adding plenty of holes to help with water drainage in an over-the-beach scenario, and one other thing I can't recall at the moment.

The carrier tilt is more of a problem with wholesale conversions. That was something I did research. By that I mean taking a stock dpms, bushmaster, S&w or even a colt and converting via a third party system like Adams. Lmt accounted for this, so they say. But yes, that is a big concern. Probably not for the average shooter. But ive out a few thousand rounds through my lmt. If I were an operator, or even an infantryman, the flaws of the system would become very apparent I believe.

Wouldn't want that if the SHTF or teotwawki. I probably wouldn't want an ar anyways for teotwawki. ;)

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Again, carrier tilt was enough of an issue for H&K to design their own buffer tube. The AR is a phenomenally reliable platform. Here are two reads for you:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...s-at-a-rental-range/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...fore-it-breaks-down/

The weak link in the AR is the bolt but, as you'll read, a good bolt lasts into crazy-land round counts. You can also carry an extra bolt in the trap door of some stocks and grips. Personally, if I had to rely on a weapon for an extended period of time it would be an AR with a KAC E3 bolt/barrel extension.

I was thinking more about a fn fal or m1a/m14. Both of those are very rugged guns. And yes, the m1a is csat vs forged , but I've been told by those who machine things that casting processes make items like an m1a receiver as good or even stronger than forging processes.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Bought it. Now we wait. Ti-rant 45. I'm
Going to order a 9mm piston later.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Nice. Holy smokes have I shot a bunch the last week been having a hoot with some pals at a new range....Manatee Gun Club. 1000 yard and 200 yard bench range. Funzo....super challenging with irons in the wind.

The nfa check has been cashed by the ATF. So it has been received. Now we wait.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Forge with your Florida experience do you have anyone you'd suggest for the Trust setup around here? Thanks

No particular person. I made Mine here with an attorney in Georgia. Most class three dealers can recommend somebody.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

What are your thoughts on a 7.62 suppressor for 5.56? Reason being is I'm considering a 300AAC barreled upper to shoot with subs/suppressed for hogs. I really am on the program with that after hearing and shooting that setup the nil noise alone is a keeper. Literally the loudest part is the bolt reseating that's it. Buddy has a Sig can on the way in 7.62, but I'm just wondering how/if pressure is dealt with b/t the two cartridges when the can is built for the larger. Disadvantages?

We have a local contact who reloads his 5.56 into 300's so we are going to learn the process for cutting the brass down etc. Cost on reloaded brass for us will be 21-23c per round for 300 blackouts with the discount my pal gets on powder/primer/lead. Still unsure about time investment on reloading with having to cut brass down will see what it's like when we 'go to school'.

Thanks for your input Forge

I bought a 45 to use with a 9mm. I was thinking the same as you buying a 7.62 to use with 5.56. You do lose some efficiency going with a bigger can and add weight you may not want or need. A .45 can is significant bigger than a 9mm considering the dynamics of a handgun.

The popularity of suppressors has led to some great developments. The most versatile can out their seems to be the Liberty Mystic-X. Check it out.

http://libertycans.net/mystic-x/

.22 all the way to 7.62 X 39. .300 AAC is on that list and cans be used with pistols. Like 9mm, .38 and .357

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Liberty is hands down my fav, but until they approve 300AAC subsonic loads in something other than an SBR I'm not quite on board. The only reason I'm going that route is for subs/supp and if I have to go to an SBR that sorta changes not only the cost game, but the pain in the behind stamp process.

I have a .30 can and it works fine on a .556, much more front end heavy because the can is much larger, but still hearing safe. . Luckily the .30 can is compatible with my .556 mount so I can shoot the recce-ish carbine suppressed while I have the .556 can on the SBR.

I have an 8 inch .300 BLK and shoot supers with it, easily 1-2 MOA @100 with a 1-4x. Absolutely devastating on hogs, especially with a 220g SMK... Talk about lights out... Its such a pleasure to deer hunt with an SBR AR15 patterned rifle in .300BLK, no more lugging around a .243 Remmy 700. Im in VA so calibers need to be above. 223 to harvest deer.

I have a buddy that shoots .300 BLK (strictly subs) out of his AAC EVO9 and it sounds fine.

I just built a money pit of a 9mm SBR for steel matches and matches that allow pistol caliber carbines, ,its a ton of fun.

Get your NFA toys (trust wise) before 41p takes effect. You have just over a month.

I think the problem with 300 AAC is a lot of loads reach supersonic in longer barrels. Unless you are hand loading, you run the risk of supersonic in a 16 inch barrel. Definitely a 20 inch.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Great info thanks. I don't think I will get to shoot at deer on this property that is for the boys holding the lease. I'm just 'Hog Patrol';)

Hey regarding 41f. Is it just getting the trust set up by July or do I have to go full balls and get my order placed? Thanks

You have to have your NFA paperwork submitted to the ATF prior to the July 13 effective date.

EDIT TO ADD: If you are trying to purchase online, probably not enough time to get it done. You have to file your Form 4 and there needs to be a Form 3 for transfer. Best bet is to find a local dealer and buy from them (if you can find any in stock).

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Sorry I'm a dummy want to be 100 percent sure I follow. Can I just set up the trust now with a local attorney and then buy the suppressor at a later date? Reason being I'm still torn on which setup I'm going to go with....just not sure of how the steps have to proceed. Thanks

41 now F.

All paperwork must be complete before July 13.


How much will a attorney charge you for a trust? What is the turn around time? Being just over a month, you can probably get a few things on a trust, that is if your dealer has what you want in stock. Most dealer to dealer Form 3 transfers take about 2-4 weeks which might put you out of the non 41F window.

The only reason why I did the trust route is for Family access. My wife, dad, brother, and uncle have access. Ownership is then transferred to the wife, brother, father, and uncle in that order if something happens to me.

I have done 2 cans pre trust a decade ago, and its was more of an inconvenience than anything else. Get your photos done, schedule an appointment with the PD for fingerprints, then finally get the CLEO to put his signature on your Form 4. Now 41F removes the CLEO signature which is a positive, but you still have to get "official" prints done and get some pictures taken.

The past 2 SBRs were E-Formed. Form 1 online!

The issue requires anybody with/on a trust who wishes to buy covered items after this date to be made known the CLEO (sheriff). It also requires identification and background. Though I'm not sure how that will be administered. Basically the CLEO not only has to be notified about you, but must be provided with picture and fingerprints. The background check I'm not sure if the NICS check is sufficient.

Fortunately the CLEO in my county is Sheriff Joe, so I won't run into any issue, but I'm not exactly comfortable with that much info being provided to a law enforcement agency. If you have never been arrested, your mug and fingerprints are not on file with law enforcement, but they will be.

If anything, this rule will support the push to remove suppressors from NFA. Before it was just a revenue scheme for gov't. I figure, I'll put my order in for a 5.56 suppressor and wait until suppressors get removed from the NFA. With the NRA and other subgroups actively moving on this, I'm convinced it will happen. They provided suppressors at the last NRA congressional shoot. The feedback was outstanding. Many incoming congressmen from both sides of the Aisle were amazed how far removed Hollywood present suppressors from real life. Another reason to not vote for Hillary.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Steps:

1. Get an NFA Trust set up. Use an attorney.
2. Take your Trust to a dealer and pick out the suppressor.
3. Fill out an ATF Form 4 (usually the dealer walks you through it).
4. Pay the $200 stamp for each suppressor. Usually, the dealer takes the money from you and submits it to the ATF.
5. Submit the Form 4 with the $200. Usually the dealer does this. You need to provide a copy of your trust.
6. Pay for the suppressor. It then gets put in the vault for several months until the ATF approval comes back.

Steps 2-6 are usually done during the same visit to the dealer. My last visit, this all took me about 45 minutes.

ALL of this needs to be done by July 13.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Interesting maybe it will happen. I will probably not get this done and just wait it out I'm happy with what I have....although damn the 300 with subs/supp is a sweet deal for hogs and damn it can be a plinker too reloading. Thanks and dbautista JSA for the info.

Find a dealer that also has a shooting range, you can possibly use your can while its in "jail".

When did you submit and when was it approved (assuming it has been)? I e-filed two Form 1 forms in late March. At that time, I was told 3-6 months. I thought that was a pretty big window.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Yes. Great advice. I used Fletcher Arms in Waukesha, WI. I have had one conjugal visit so far ...

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Interesting. I never thought of that. I would think they wouldn't allow that as a denial of the form would mandate a resale.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Submission date: 1/27/2015
Approval date: 3/17/2015 on St. Patrick's Day.

This was when I was snowed in and bored.

I thought about getting another can, something multi-use like the Gemtech One, but would have to re-do my most of my muzzle devices.

Wait what? Was that for a Suppressor or SBR. If a suppressor, my only question is who did you blow?

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

E-Form 1 SBR.

Expensive but effective and it won't have as much of a negative impact on weapon balance: http://osssuppressors.com/...-62/over-the-barrel/

300blk is a fun round but damn is it expensive...

If you get a suppressor I highly suggest getting a heavier stock to compensate for weapon balance. Magpul UBR is a good choice especially the new one with the A5 buffer compatibility. If you're cheap an A2 stock is a good option and the rifle buffer is handy as well for slowing down the cyclic rate.

Thanks for the info. No way am I getting a 300 setup unless my friends and I reload our piles of 5.56 brass. We have a local contact who reloads .223/5.56 and we are going to watch the cut down/prep process and see if it's time we want to invest or not. We have more than enough brass to fund out 300 appetites.....known cost on primers/powder/lead gives us about .25/round at most for supers/bit more for subs. If it's down to us buying 300 AAC's it doesn't even get off the ground.

So I talked with my guys about the new rules. They will basically provide a packet that you can maintain with them or their trust. They only need to provide copies to "sheriff joe" per the requirement of "notifying" the CLEO. Sheriff Joe has said that he will receive the paperwork but doesn't have the bandwidth or desire to maintain any type of records for this. Just proof of notification in a database. The way I see it, the authorities have this data already in Florida and will here when I renew my CWP with an Arizona one.

The only pain is going to an LEO or G4S location for fingerprints. Actually, G4S may already have mine on file as I needed to for my Job with a bank.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

That's my understanding as well, but I am far from an expert. The finger printing is not a big deal, just a pain. Also seems like the first steps of a gun registry, but that could be my tinfoil hat talking. My understanding is that you only have "notify" the local law official, not get "approval" like you do with personal purchases. But, again, I am far from an expert. Regardless, I will have all my paperwork in prior to the July effective date.

EDIT TO ADD: I had my prints taken for the TSA Pre packet. I wonder whether those can be used.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

This is specific to trust and only means notifications. Individual purchases are no different as they needed sign off before.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Freaking ATF rejected my Form 1 for an SBR claiming I listed the wrong model number on the lower receiver. I filed using the ATF e-file system and picked the only model number they provided in the drop down menu. So I had to resubmit. Used to be you went back in line at the same location. They changed the rules. Now you start over. What a bunch of bullshit.

Filed two Form 1's on the same date in April. Got the rejection on Friday. Still have not received the permission in the other submission. So, they can reject my one form but not grant the second filed minutes later? What a joke!

But they have no problem taking your $200 at the time you submit the form. I would love to know how much the ATF makes in interest on all the paid tax stamps.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Talk go to suppressor talk forums. They usually have direct numbers to specific agents. You can usually call them after a denial with no issues. They don't like getting called for status updates, but once rejected, they usually are good to go. You can get that fixed in a couple days if it is clerical. I also asked about this with my NFA dealer and they confirmed that. Granted, I had them fill out the paperwork and I signed and filed.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

By the way, that is why I laugh when I hear liberals push similar treatment for AR-15s. At least they are learning more with each go. But they have no idea the crap lawful citizens go through to get this stuff.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Got a chance to shoot a suppressed AR last night and that was a huge let down for what I was expecting. Piston/supers/Gemtech. Sure it's less, but not good enough for me to go through all that cluster and cost b/c there is still a supersonic 'snap' that is darn loud. It's only one exposure, but dang it almost seems to me that subs are the only way I'd go with a suppressor. We took our ear buds out for one shot, said ouch damn, put them back in and that was that. It's not as if it bothers me with hearing protection in so then I'm back to why am I doing it.

Your experience with the handguns?

Looks like the suppressor route for me would be a 300 with subs only.

Suppresors on rifle serve a very practical purpose for hunters with long barreled rifles and snipers who need to prevent triangulation. But not really any other rifleman unless they are using an SBR with subsonic ammo. SBRs can waste a lot of bullet energy. So it can turn a borderline supersonic 5.56 round into subsonic, but it also will have a lot of flash. Same with a .308. As Hawley said, shooting a .308 out of an m-14 in close quarters is a intense. Doing so out of an 18 or 16 inch barrel is more intense, but with a suppressor, a lot of that energy is suppressed, even if the sound isn't. The suppressor SBR combo has become popular because the SBR has become popular for people who prefer long guns for HD. Shooting a 5.56 round out of a 10.5 inch barrel in your home the dead of night sucks big time. With that said, adding a suppressor ads 4 inches unless an overlapping which may save half the extra space. It makes using an maneuverable SBR for HD much more practical.

A subsonic .300 from what I have heard sounds like a pellet gun. But then again, I've heard people refer to 9mm out of a suppressor sounding like a pellet gun. I have yet to hear any suppressed firearm that wasn't a subsonic .22 sound like a pellet gun. So I think that is perception vs reality.

To answer your question, suppressors were designed for hunting rifles and handguns originally. They have evolved with time. If you are hunting with a .30 or higher energy weapon, it can mean the difference between hearing loss. The sonic boom isn't as bad with those extra 6 - 8 inches you get from a hunting rifle. If you are sniping, having a suppressor has the same impact, but also eliminates the secondary sound that allows the enemy to find you. Snipers are found through triangulation. That is why they can't shoot from the same spot more than once in a traditional battlefield role, unless suppressed or guarded by a support (like in Iraq). The enemy hears the sonic boom as a soldier goes down and then hears the pop from the gun seconds later. This gives them a sense of how far the sniper is, or alerts them to listen for the second. Then the sniper is found. There is no audible secondary pop with a suppressed rifle.

Handguns you have to use 147 in 9mm, 45, or a slower round in other calibers.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Thanks.....I have heard the 300 sub/supp and it's about as loud as the bolt clacking when you rack the charging handle no exaggeration. I stood there and listened to a guy dump a mag with zero hearing protection. So, even knowing I was going to shoot supers I was secretly hoping it might be somewhat closer to the 300, but honestly it was so friggin loud after one round we looked at each other and said 'ears back on'. No matter I was late to the game thinking about trying to force one in b/f Rule 41

Did you get this sorted out?

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Re-submitted. Went to the back of the line.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

That sounds exactly like the process we should have for all guns. Not.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

When I filed, the ATF website said if it was rejected for a minor error (e.g., wrong model number), upon correction, it went back in the same spot and was picked up right away. Then, they changed the rules AFTER I filed. Gotta love the gub-ment bullshit.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I wonder if that applies to paper filing to. Because I filed around the same time you did, so what I was told may well have been superseded. So not only are they making it tougher to run through a trust, but also making the filing a bigger hassle. Thanks Obama.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Stamp came through today. Happen to be home this afternoon instead of in the office so I will pickup tomorrow. Man this was a long asinine process.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

When did you file? I am still waiting for a couple stamps and approval to build an SBR.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

First week of feb. Check cashed Feb 22nd. I think I posted here when I did.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Well shit. I have a while to wait. First week of April for me.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I'm going to stick with paper going forward and have the guys do the paperwork. Some charge for that, mine don't. I think with paper they are more inclined to just scratch off an error.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Mounted on my 320 in 9mm with suppressor sights.



Mounted on my 220 combat 40th anniversary.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Finally took it out today. But forgot the piston for my 320 so only got to use the 220 combat in .45. At 10 yards I bored a racquetball size hole with 17 rounds. The grouping was incredible. Obviously no muzzle flip, but think of it like sticking your arms out as you walk a line, or a tightrope walker. It mirrored shooting a mark 3 with an obvious weight difference. Incredible. Made my 9mm shots afterward seem pathetic, but then again I went from a .45 which I always shot better to a 9mm in a polymer pistol. You will have a blast when you get it. Be sure to get a glove or carry a rag with you. That fucker got too hot to handle with 50 rounds. It was still pretty hot in some parts after 100 rounds of 9mm while it was cooling.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Nice! Cannot wait to get mine!

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I had some money come my way and was thinking of getting the sandman in 762 for my rifle. But I'm seriously considering an SBR for my LMT first. Then go with that. Maybe get a .300 blackout piston upper in 10.5.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Been stalking this thread waiting for these pictures! Nice. How was the sound when shooting?

Can't wait to move out of Kalifornia so I can own one, or two.

BTW - You Kalifornians need to vote "Yes" on both Prop 57 and you need to vote to legalize the MJ for everyone this November......just so I can watch this state further implode from my comfy place up in 'Merica.'

15 more months!

With ear protection required by he range, much quieter than the lane two down shooting 9mm. The key thing was the harmonics. It wasn't concussive. So you could definitely use it in an enclosed space without hearing damage. On a windy day, it would blend in. You could hear the action cycle.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Just received my ATF approval for my SBR build. I filed in mid-April and received the approval today.

I filed a second SBR form at the same time, but messed up the model number, so it was rejected in mid-June. I re-filed the corrected version in mid-June and it is still pending.

Still waiting for approval on my suppressor, filed in early June.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Thought you and JSA might be interested in this article in Bearing Arms: http://bearingarms.com/...ent-trump-will-make/

Greg

PS: Somebody give me the secret to inserting hyperlinks in this new software.

---

If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

Yes. This came through my email through three different sources. There is no common sense reason to deny this. Its a tax with no public safety benefit. I showed you the picture.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Interesting. I have 2 tax stamps/ATF applications in process. IF (big if) he get this through, I wonder what happens to that $400. You have to pay the $200 at the time of filing. If this gets passed prior to my paperwork being processed, I would expect return of my $400. If it gets passed shortly after my approval, I would still demand my $400 back, but would not expect to see it.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Although I WILL get a suppressor for my FNX Tactical if the trust/tax stamp process goes away, I am actually more interested in what the chance of 50-state concealed carry reciprocity has of passing. I am thinking of states like California, Oregon, Washington, Illinois, Massachusetts, New York, etc. What do you think liberal strongholds like those will do if a bill supporting it made it through Congress and was signed by Trump?

Fun to think about. ;-P

Greg

---

If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

I find it quite problematic for anyone to claim to be a Conservative and a believer in State's Rights and then support a national CCW reciprocity law.

Good thing Trump isn't and has never been a Conservative.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I'm mixed about forcing states to respect the right to carry. Four years ago I would have said no. But it is a constitutional right and some states actively work to suppress rights. So I'm ok with it just like these same stated felt that other states needed to respect their marriage laws.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Apples and hand grenades. CCW is not a Constitutional Right.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Not yet. Gay marriage wasn't until recently. The right to bear arms is while ccw isn't unless the court says it is. But a A national ccw law with licensing may be the only way to reign in some states that don't get it.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Of course the difference being marriage is an inherent/natural right and bearing arms is an express/granted right. The former is granted by your maker while the latter is granted at the pure and express discretion of your government.

Apples and hand grenades.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Could a case be made that if you have the right to bear arms, that has to be in a context where it would do you some good? I.e. right to bear arms limited to your house is not much of a right and it think it would fly in the face of what the founders considered appropriate use of firearms.

Now I could see that perhaps CCW is not specifically provided for, could you argue that state have to allow either CCW or Open Carry as it relates to the right to bear arms? or perhaps Constitution Carry as is done in Vt.

We have constitutional carry here in az.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Marriage shouldn't be a gov't controlled event. So you are right it is completely different. But I don't see why under the eyes of le it should be treated different. I'm fine with some oppressive regimes facing a little blowback.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Why do you think that is? Because the Constitution ensures State's Rights to enact or not enact such provisions. Now, you are arguing the same rights granted to AZ should be usurped by the Federal Government!

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

What is the purpose of the 2A? It isn't for hunting, is it? I thought it was to ensure the government is kept in check. Well, we need more than a pocket carry pistol for that. So, how does CCW further that purpose?

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Agreed it is not to hunt. But I thought Heller decision was that people have the right to guns for self defense. Is that not under the 2A, but a different part of constitution? If part of 2A, then shouldn't Heller imply some sort of carry? Unless Heller was only to apply to the home, but I thought it was more broad than home?

The constitution says what the Supreme Court says it says. Not what I think and not you. We have both been wrong on some huge cases. Like I said, I'm fine with a nation ccw license enforced at a federal level.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

The difference between inherent rights and granted rights is settled law.

Based on your position regarding a nation-wide CCW requirement, I have to assume you no longer support State's rights. Way to go, Lefty.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Man we have moved way pay states rights and their is no turning back. Time to get mine.

The hastening of the end is coming and I just want to cash in.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Of course I value state rights. I said I'm
Mixed about it. I'm more In favor of removing suppressors from the nfa. I could live without a national ccw to be honest as I don't frequently visit communist states that don't value freedom.

With that said I'm not going to argue against it and such a law may in fact force the courts to address the issue thus making it a constitutional right. Which is IMHO something that needs to be settled.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Just found out a bill to eliminate the onerous requirements to obtain a suppressor has already been presented to the House as H.R.3799 - Hearing Protection Act of 2015.

Details: https://www.congress.gov/...e-bill/3799/all-info

I suspect this particular change is farther along than any of the others and could get through Congress and signed by Trump pretty quickly.

We can only hope.

Greg

---

If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

That would be great. I heard in the UK, where suppressors are legal, from what I understand, they sell for around $75.

---

************************
#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012