“My hope is the marathon runners realized they’re not going to be able to finish this race and instead of being angry and complaining, that they join in in the protest and stand in solidarity because justice is all we are asking for,” Turner said.

This makes perfect sense.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

I say move the start line back 2 miles... secretly.

Heh.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Sounds like a completely reasonable way to gain support for their cause.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I'm tempted to make the trip there to help ensure that the way is not blocked. It would be awesome if people made a corridor to escort the runners.

Hope is not a course of action. Hoping that physically tired and emotional people will make a rational decision is not a good plan.

I don't think that disturbing a marathon that people have paid to participate in is a wise decision at all. Not a very good way to draw positive attention to a cause.

well, i'll be curious to see what happens. i agree that tired, barfy, snot-faced athletes very close to the end of a marathon will not be receptive to ANY kind of message. most of us can barely see straight at that point.

i can't help but wonder: can you imagine how powerful it would be if instead they could, say, convince everyone to run in black t-shirts, or to lie down 'dead' at the start line for 60 seconds or something?

-mike

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

"...protesters plan to physically enter the race."

What, bandit the race?! Arrest them!!

"“I would hope people would get tired of the injustices we are facing sooner than they get tired of us protesting,” Turner said."

Too late. What a horrible way to try and get your message out.

Set up a booth at the expo and give away arm bands or something. There are plenty of ways to get the message across in a way that isn't going to ruin thousands of people's day (and previous 4-6 months of training)

At the end of a 25 mile hard run I can think of nothing more enjoyable than standing around for a couple more hours protesting something. Great idea!

Also, there are black people in Minnesota?! <pink-ish>

---

~~~~~~~~~
Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

I would love to see a Patriot Guard-like reaction to this...

---

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

BLM will not garner sympathy, especially after a type A runs through the protest and violence ensues...

Or how about focusing on stop committing the crimes to begin with.

Is blocking an Ironman next on the agenda?

---

2016:
IMFL #12
http://www.bestbikesplit.com

Not to lavender-room this conversation... but that would be a good start :)

Yep. Nothing like protesting at an event that has no connection to your cause.

Rashad Turner with the St. Paul chapter of Black Lives Matter said, “Our job as an organization is to keep the pressure on. Our job is to let the community know that every day we are planning on dismantling white supremacy.”

Yes, the white supremacy at marathons has gone on long enough.


“I would hope people would get tired of the injustices we are facing sooner than they get tired of us protesting,” Turner said.

I'm sure ruining a race people have spent months training for will accomplish this.

BLM protesters shut down I-93 in Boston during the morning rush hour by chaining themselves to barrels in the roadway. Created a massive traffic jam and delayed at least one ambulance on its way to a Boston hospital. As you'd expect, the action was widely condemned even by those sympathetic to the group. The organizer of this protest apparently adheres to the same school of "let's just piss everyone off in a totally counterproductive way."

I think that black lives matter. With that said, this has to be one of the most backassward ways to gain support. Interfering and ruining people's race is such a negative format vs all the positive ways for exposure. Whatever brain trust committee came up with this one should re-evaluate the plan before the weekend, otherwise enjoy having the thousands of runners you interfered with drop support for your cause in the future.

BLM. Terrorists plain and simple

What I find ironic about this is that a lot of marathons are won by black runners who are potentially very good role models. Rather than supporting this, they've chosen to ruin it.

Oh, no you didn't.......

---

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Awful, looks like they're taking pages from the now-defunct Occupy Wall Street playbook. The race starts at 8am so at least they could hold off mile-25 protests until 10:40 or so, so they only end up disrupting hobby joggers and not real runners.

Exactly. Or better yet, volunteer at an aid station. It doesn't cost anything, and promotes good will.

---

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Well I hope they plan on handing out really nice finishers medals and having plenty of food available, or else the runner are going to really be upset about the new finish area. They will have a riot on their hands if they run out of bagels or some sort of protein recovery option.

from the snarky evil side of me that's watched WAAAYYY too many riots over the years.....

"maybe they should hand out televisions"

Good will? ya, right. I think one slogan at a rally was "pigs in a blanket, fry em line bacon".

Maybe they can serve pre-race breakfast for volunteers. I bet a local grocery store chain will donate the food. I'm pretty sure "pig" is referring to breakfast sausage links. Very sure.

I wish groups like this would put their energy and time towards correcting some of the root causes of the issue. Correcting internally the negative elements within their own thug, gang banger sub-culture, and at the same time working with the other side to do the same within racist white supremist sub-culture. You can't expect one side to try and fix their own problems if the other doesn't attempt to do the same or even recognize there are 2 sides to the issue.

The last riot locally (according to locals) a neighboring township was in a high speed chase for a black youth failing to yield for a traffic stop. They handed off to the city police (who are all white) and the youth crashed the car and died. Somehow that was the police's fault, even though they didn't even initiate the original traffic stop. Basically there was a lot of mistrust and it's was a powered keg waiting to explode. That's how these usually go. There's a lot of mistrust, often for good reason, on both sides. To fix it, you need fix the issue on both ends.

My concern is this demonstration is only attempting to gain attention to the need to correct one side. Further, the real problem is lack of trust and barriers build up on both sides. Disrupting this even will make the problem worse, not better.

---

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

I would love someone to do this to my race. Could beat the shit out of a bunch of people and claim I was afraid for my life.

 


Are they going to stop all of the runners or only the white ones?


.

---

Once, I was fast. But I got over it.

Come on, they have Prince!

They could get this guy to clear the way for everyone

Here's an idea: arrest them for obstructing traffic or whatever, get their names, and hand over said names to an attorney who would file a class action lawsuit on behalf of the racers and the event organizer. Between the damages and the attorney's fees, each of the "protestors" will have a nice $10,000+ bill to pay. If they are minors then their parents can have a nice $10,000+ bill to pay.

so... i am absolutely The Only One? i know nothing of the cause as I don't live in teh USA but from what i read there is a huge disparity of racism up there, culminating in huge societal factors - one of which is that black folk seem to have targets on them. is there not a huge disparity between black and white seen through many different layers of society, from education to jail?

honestly, were i running the marathon and experienced an event (can't remember the word to use) at mile 25 i would either take a rest or join in. the idea of my white ass being inconvenienced during a hobby to bring awareness - it reeks of elitism to be bothered by forcing awareness of such a grave situation. were none of you Vietnam War protesters? were none of you Cesar Chavez and farm workers' awareness fighters?

---

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

This is what started the whole #BlackLivesMatter movement

https://en.wikipedia.org/...ing_of_Michael_Brown

---

Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

Not sure what's more misguided and ill-informed, this comment, or the actions of the protesters.

Well done.

Yes, this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.

wanna know how well lawsuits work against broke people with no jobs and no education?

So a group that was formed to protest events caused in large part by people running when they were not supposed to is going to try and stop a bunch of authorized runners.

Its kind of fitting in a twisted sort of way but I bet they are not cleaver enough to put that twist on it ;-)

Not sure what type info you get, but it is definitely not like that at all. You reading old Black Panther literature?

I dare not say you are the only one... but for the life of me I cannot understand your thought process.

Yes, there are issues that need to be resolved on both sides of the aisle. Many people don't believe/ acknowledge it, but racism goes both ways in the world and we need to find a way to change that. But I ask how does stopping a bunch of people during a marathon, that they have dedicated time and money towards, seem like an equitable fashion to 'bring awareness' towards the issue. There are also people who run for a living... do these people reek of elitism? Other than being elite runners?

As others have said, there are ways to bring attention to issues in a positive light. If they follow through with this plan I believe it will not do anything to ease tensions and will only depict BLM negatively. I believe that the people that they are trying to gain support from are going to be the people who are negatively impacted the most by this.

Why not have groups of runners in BLM shirts run the race? Why not have BLM work aid stations? Why not have BLM sponsor part of the race? Why not contribute to this event and show BLM in a positive manner?

Disrupting peoples lives (please note the earlier BLM freeway block) is NOT a great way to garner sympathy. It is however, a great way to make somebody dislike the movement.

If you want your group to gain respect, don't disrespect other groups, including Marathon runners.

That said...you might in deed be, "The Only One" but only to a point....

I disagree with the premise, "Black Lives Matter", in that I believe "All Lives Matter. Police seem to be shooting suspects more quickly than in the past (perception or reality, hard for me to know...publicity certainly makes us aware of more instances we may not have been aware of in the past). And even in pretty questionable cases, the police are exonerated of misconduct.

The best way to not get shot by the police is to not give them ANY reason to consider pulling their firearm. Ever.

Thank god. Someone said it! Now, can I protest at mile 26 to stop the inequality of white runners winning marathons? I'm tired of all these African runners coming to American races and taking away the wins from true Americans.

(If this needs to be pink, we can't be friends)

"Rashad Turner with the St. Paul chapter of Black Lives Matter said, “Our job as an organization is to keep the pressure on. Our job is to let the community know that every day we are planning on dismantling white supremacy.”"

Does Rashad realize that the first several runners that they'll encounter with their blockade probably won't be white?

---

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

But it's worked so well for the Critical Mass crowd..

This possibly one of the most idiotic statement that I have read on Slowtwitch recently. As a Hispanic American I can tell you that I am sick and tired about the culture of victimhood of the minority comunities in the US. Is there racism? Yes. Should something be done about it? Absolutely. And there has been incredible progress in the last 30 years. The freaking President of the US is an African American for heavens sake!

The truth that our minority communities don't want to accept is that movements like "Black Lives Matter" just perpetuate the victim status of minorities in this country. We need fair treatment, yes, but what our communities need more than anyting is to pick our sorry butts off the ground and start taking ownership for our successes and failures.

How stopping a marathon does anything to help black communities is a mystery to me and is further evidence that civil rights organizations have been taken over by morons in this country. This is absolutely NOT what any responsible civil rights organization should do and I hope that they throw any and all of those people who disturb the marathon in jail.

---

------------------
http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com

Let's pretend that they achieve their stated goal for this protest- Stop everyone 1 mile from the finish and get all of the marathon runners to "join in protest and stand in solidarity"... Now imagine the smell.

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---

---

Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Most of what I've read in this thread is too misinformed, ridiculous, or racist to respond to without losing my cool.

Have fun in your run, Slowtwitch.

Exactly. Perpetuating the victim mentality does not help either side. Movements and acts of protest like this only add and create rifts among people.

you can't be serious. you really think that people who have trained for and traveled to the event will feel good about being blocked from finishing at mile 25 ?

i'll tell you this: no way in hades i'd be prevented from finishing the marathon. blood will spill (and not mine) if need be.

I agree with most of this, but sometimes taking ownership isn't enough. Sometimes you have to let people know there's a problem so the parties out of your control can begin to take ownership of their failures.

The culture of "I'm the victim" is problematic in this country, and not just with minorities actually, but the recent trend of rampant victim blaming (see the "thug, gang banger", and "caused by running" comments above for example) in this country is something that may be more troubling (and again, not just in regards to minorities).

I think your sarcasm detection meter is broken, friendo!

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

I think he was being sarcastic.

---

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

You deny these sub-cultures exist, or you dispute that they aren't part of the core issue of the matter at hand? Or it's your opinion that it is in fact simply a 1 sided issue. Sorry, but I have a sister and a nephew that's part of this sub-culture. It does exist. They are part of the problem. Ignoring that, and you won't solve the issue.

It's like only trying to improve your power output but ignoring that your aerodynamics suck. You have to approach both to get faster. This protest is like trying to improve you power by throwing away your power tap and getting a stages just so that RChung and Coggan can tell you how stupid you are. It gets attention, but doesn't help you achieve your goals.

All publicity is not good publicity.

---

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Same here. I'd plow through however I can. This is ridiculous and if anything this protest will create more enemies than friends.

Ok, let me spell it out for you. You asked if I was being serious with my initial post. I explained that it was meant to be sarcastic, thus implying that no, I was not serious and that we are, in fact, in agreement.

Now what exactly were you going to call me?
Touchy crowd.. Must be the off season or something.

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

sounds like he's no friendo yours.

---

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

I like the analogy at the end there, well done, but you kind of alluded to what I was going to say: when you work to improve your aerodynamics, your best bet is to seek outside assistance from someone who can help fix the issues. It is not possible to fix issues with crime in low income, minority areas simply by working from within, action has to be taken on a much higher level.

I fully agree with your last sentence though, all publicity is not good, and this particular protest is a terrible, terrible idea.

Why not you ask. Because that would be a reasonable thing to do.....and this is not a reasonable group. They are not interested in "reason". If you have followed this "cause" from the start you would know it was based on a total lie. Then quickly followed by our President and black celebrities/sports stars jumping on the bandwagon without verifying the facts to help perpetuate the lie. Over the past several months BLM has proved they are simply an anti-police "group" who protest whenever a white cop shoots a black perpetrator. Never any protests otherwise when a black is killed. It has nothing to do with "justice" or "racism". But enough ranting. Since blocking roadways is against the law in St. Paul, if I was the race organizer, I would get assurances from the Mayor and Police Chief that they will be there to enforce the law and keep the rodeway open. And if not, ask the city to provide refunds to all the participants.

Geez... This is EXACTLY what they're hoping for. Just like Westboro Baptist Church protesting at military funerals, they're just LOOKING for some one to make a martyr at a "peaceful protest".

---

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

The issues surrounding the shooting are one thing, the police reaction, the subsequent filmed shootings in other areas, the rampant victim blaming, and the disgusting and flat out racist comments around some of these goings on, are another. To only focus on the match that started the fire is ignoring the gasoline that's been poured over the kindling for decades.

My last post before moving on to more triathlon related postings...

I like how people think reacting violently won't land them in jail. Good luck finishing the race when you're tossed in the back of a police van.

delusions of grandeur....the average slowtwitch marathoner is not exactly built to blow through "traffic" like Earl Campell.

win

---

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

wouldn't that be true delusions of grandeur?

---

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

/thread over

yes, and nice. I got a chuckle.

kill the white people

best post ever

Can't we all be friendos?

That would be beyond awesome.

Here's a FB page supporting the runners.

https://www.facebook.com/...8194436308/timeline/

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

That page is very soft and passive.

If I was planning to run the race, which I'm not, I think I would have two choices: 1) don't run or 2) accept that my run will end in some kind of fist fight for me (probably on the losing end, frankly, but a fight nonetheless) if they are intentionally liking arms and blocking the roadway. No way I'm getting bullied in the heat of the moment. Better not to run (for me).

There's no way these dipshits actually succeed in blocking the race. Even if they manage to get a few dozen of themselves out onto Summit Ave. making noise (and I doubt they will even be able to pull that off), what's stopping people from running up onto the boulevard or sidewalk or around through someone's yard, or hell, even cutting one street over for a block or two then going back onto the course once they're past all this nonsense?

Stopping 12,000 individual runners is a hell of a lot harder logistically than blocking a train or a few lanes of auto traffic. Unless they show up with thousands of people who are willing to risk actual prison time and burn any last shred of sympathy they may have with the public by kicking off a full scale riot anyone who wants to get to the finish line will be able to do so.

Oh goodie. Maybe French farmers on tractors will join in. They've had experience blocking races. They can show them the ropes.

Nice...

Huh? Oh no you didn't....? Jesus! :o

If Mike Rossi is entered he'd be my favorite to win.

He'll either begin his race at the 25.5 mile mark or drive through the blockade.

---

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

So what you are idiotically saying is that black people are not being killed by police officers at a much higher rate than others? You are saying that driving while black, walking while black, standing while black, does not exist? Really?

Do you not understand how our country was built upon racism, from wiping out the indians to enslaving the back race? Racism continued legally, as in it was codified into law, until the early 60's. Then it was not codified but just practiced. Redlining prevented home ownership for minorities, the most likely way to achieve and pass along wealth to your children. Minorities were denied education, job and promotions. Reduced to poverty by institutionalized racism, whites blamed them for their "failings" to achieve wealth and create homes, which still happens daily on Fox News and most corporate owned media, and parroted by such self-made, pulled-up-by-their-own-bootstraps men as Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney. Now trying to just get a swing of the bat, while other Americans are starting on third base, they are much more likely to be harassed, brutalized, and killed by a police force- sometimes by the need to achieve "broken window" statistics, others times by fear and racism.

Yet you want to claim that their "cause" is built upon a lie. Please expound some more from your place of privilege! You do not sound the least bit clueless.

Statements like the one gphin305 made need to stay confined to the forum created for it so the rest of the forum is not polluted.

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---------------

"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

They already had 350-500 show up at St Paul State Fair and they did a fake "die-in" where they laid on the ground.

---

2016:
IMFL #12
http://www.bestbikesplit.com

So they died alongside all the lard-gulping state fair attendees?

Pretty sure Julie Miller could find a way around the blockade...

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Formerly DrD

This is like someone saying "stop child abuse" and you responding with "stop ALL abuse!". Needless and insensitive.

That being said, this marathon idea seems pretty half baked. Maybe that's generous...quarter baked?

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

I think there might be an epic game of "red rover" at the end of this race.


I am willing to donate $50 dollars to arm the runners with a cans of bear mace. Anyone want to set up a go fund me for this? I think - the best way to react to non violent protests - is with bear mace.

What, you don't think that #thuglivesmatter?

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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

You have just won the Internet.

---

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

They should make t-shirts and their own finisher medals and I'd be down for the cause for the most badass hijacked "almost-but-not-quite" marathon. Set a PR at the rate 25 mile distance. If they could get Boston to recognize a projected finish as a qualifier.

---

“Bloom wherever you are planted"

Or make it a 24 mile race and see how long it takes for them to realize that nobody's coming to their block party.

---

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

Runners will probably just run the first 25 miles and finish up the last 1.2 on the elliptical.

Instead of blocking a bunch of thin and nerdy white guys, they should show they really mean business by trying to block Sturgis.

I'd buy that for a dollar.

funny, i was thinking there's gonna be a Rossi / Miller or similar out there who's unaware of the protest. they'll show up at the finish line, "naililng their PR". when asked about how they got thru the protesters ...... oh, it will be too good

Now that wins the internet.

---

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

yeah, pretty much where i stand on this.
i wouldn't mind if some of the clueless folks on this thread got stopped mid-race at some point.

Sadly, I'm reminded of some folks who COULDN'T finish in Boston, for JUST that reason

You MIGHT want to reconsider & rephrase

Douche

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Kill my landlord

See

Eye

Ell

Ell

My landlord

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

you know, maybe this is a time that the endurance athlete community can share some of its expertise with the fight for civil rights.
to wit: you don't start with a marathon.
find a nice local 5k, see how that goes, learn from there. if it's something productive and enjoyable, start building up to the longer races.

good one, I'd go as high as a buck fifty (feeling wealthy, white and privileged today, though not too nerdy, and unfortunately not skinny enough).

---

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

"I hid my face so they couldn't tell I was a white guy"

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Which was enough to temporarily block 3 of the 17 gates into the fair. Every person who showed up that day intending to get into the fair got in. They may have had to wait a few extra minutes or walk an extra block or two, but they got in.

Crowd control is hard and Summit Ave. is wide. 500 untrained, unpaid, unequipped amateurs simply have no chance to stop 12,000 people intent on getting through unless the 500 shows up well armed and ready to get violent. The people running BLM aren't that stupid. They'll make enough noise to get the news cameras to show up and then life will go on. At worst they will manage to slow a very small fraction of the field down a couple minutes, but there is no way they're stopping that race.

I hope your right, but runners in a marathon especially near end are really very spread out, I ran that 26.1 and i do recall last few miles were on nice wide roads. Runners would not have the luxury of picking a different road unless they come up with an alternate plan.

---

2016:
IMFL #12
http://www.bestbikesplit.com

I can envision a real life version of the zombie apocalypse. Sure you can stop a few, but the unstoppable mass of zombies just keep coming. Instead of crying out for brains, they moan something about finisher medals.

Affirmative action was a step in the right direction but by no means is it some kind of a quick fix. BLM is a worthy cause, though I'm not fond of this particular protest. Even after affirmative action, lots and lots and lots of racism in education, employment and housing took place. lots. No seriously lots.

You are in denial if you think racism isn't so thoroughly engrained in our society that lots of people of color start life disadvantaged. Society need not fix every woe but its unfortunate when being disadvantaged is tied to an immutable characteristic. What's even more unfortunate is things like affirmative action and voting rights act are being dismantled. Our schools are more segregated today than they were 25 years ago and some peoples educations are worse for it.

I am largely sympathetic to the issues being raised by BLM.....but this seems like an especially dumb idea. Mostly because it will harm their efforts more than help.

I am reminded of this.....

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Blacks in this country have a serious obesity problem. Maybe instead of blocking the marathon, they should join in.

#BlackWaistlinesMatter

I was going to go to bed - but not anymore. Popcorn in the microwave.

All races in this country have a serious obesity problem. Whites at 63% should hardly be considered the "gold standard" for blacks at 73%. (Source).

I'm in full agreement that the plan is beyond stupid, but the disturbingly large # of people in this thread using that as an excuse to trot out full-up racism (a good excuse to go beat the hell out of some people!) is kind of depressing.

Right. I started out reading this thread with "wow I hope they don't go through with this," and now think, "well, maybe they should go though with this." I protested against a church that was doing gay conversion therapy in 2003. I left the event thinking that there were a few on my side who were just as intolerant and ignorant as our foes...

You think "BLM is a worthy cause"? Really? An organization that encourages the killing of police officers? Really? An organization that you only hear from when a white cop shoots a black thug usually committing a crime yet silence when a 9 year old black girl from Ferguson is killed innocently sitting inside her home? Silence when 50 blacks are killed by other blacks in Chicago every weekend. Really.....you think they are a good cause? Oh well, guess you have a different value system than I.
ps....And regarding your comment about engrained racism.....no argument. Oh, but guess you don't know blacks themselves admit they are the most racist of all races (look it up).

The fact remains that blacks in this country are the most overweight racial group. Four out of five black women are overweight. Sir Mix-A-Lot was practically a seer.

Don't worry. Your knee jerk inclination to label every mocking comment about this stupidity as racism will put you in good standing with the BLM, which tends to see it under every rock. They might even give you free passage to the finish line.

From the contents of your post, let me make a wild guess: you're a middle-to-upper class, straight, white, male, aged 30-50?

IOW widely condemned by white people who claim to be sympathetic to the group, as long as it doesn't actually inconvenience anyone, especially themselves

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http://www.jt10000.com/

apparently BLM never got the memo about "Minnesota Nice." I know I feel more sympathetic to their cause now (insert sarcastic facial expression here).

Full disclosure, I grew up in the suburbs north west of MPLS (I even did TCM way way back in the stone age). And, living in CA, I'm still a nice guy. How do you know? I finish last all the time (OK, I exaggerated about that last one a little bit).

I've had too much popcorn on this thread, but, it has been good. I'll take seconds please, I'm having a good old time. Beats talking about power, clinchers vs tubulars, which swim course is too fast, who cut what course, etc., any day of the week.

---

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

So angry at the blacks, my little troll Archie! Good night, fantasize about Sturgis bikers kicking the shit out of some uppity blacks if you have trouble sleeping!

Feeling the same way.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

The great thing about duathlons is that you don't have to worry about this sort of thing happening.....

BlackLivesMatter leader: Yes, the plan is we're going to block them from finishing that 2nd run, damn
right all 50 of them.

People's gonna finally wake up and take notice now. Where's the media? How come
there ain't no news cameras?

---

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

You know, people have been fighting for civil rights in this country for more than a hundred years, and the BLM is in many ways a continuation of a movement that got very big about 55 years ago. And that movement actually disrupted things, faced condemnation from many white people, and had some small success. Just sayin'.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

I openly admit that I am struggling with this issue...on the scope of things, my finishing a marathon is pretty fookin' insignificant compared to the issues that BLM ar trying to highlight. And I fully appreciate that the point of social protest is to disrupt and make people feel uncomfortable.

That said, I think it is incumbent on every protest prognoses to ask whether their planned actions will be beneficial to their goals and objectives.

In this case, the answer seems a resounding "No".

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Is this still holds true?? "I will clean-up my own backyard before I tell my neighbors to do the same".

yeah. and as a general rule of thumb, the folks on here criticizing BLM now are the same folks who were criticizing MLK back then.

here i tend to agree. is there any concrete demand involved? i still think blocking a marathon is a tactical mistake, but if there were something tangible to work out, like "we demand a civilian review board for police misconduct" then at least you're starting with something that coudl be addressed in a concrete fashion. We're not going to end racism and police brutality against african-americans between now and the start of the race, so the pressure is more on the blm to stop, then on the local gov to do anything.
(note that i have no idea if a civilian review board exists in either twin city or not).

OK, that's pretty funny. Sad about duathlons....I love them.

I get your point, but this is not the early 60's in the deep south where: You couldn't ride in the front of the bus, or sit at a particular lunch counter - by law. I get that there needs to be progress in certain areas and, indeed there should be protests that are relevant to the problems faced.

But, last I checked; the folks who put on TCM allow anyone (race, creed, color, gender, etc.) to participate. No discrimination what-so-ever. So, to me there is a complete and illogical disconnect to protesting the TCM - it's not the place to win a "war" that's already won. Arguably, if you look at many sports which "race" dominates the playing field? Even in marathon running. (OK, not in triathlon - yet, but NFL, NBA, etc. "the money sports").

Protesting an inappropriate arrest, etc. I get. In fact, that should be something deplored in a color blind fashion. Completely different. If I were BLM, I'd ask "will this help our cause?" gaining press/attention isn't the same as moving opinion in the desired direction - big difference. Having Rosa Parks pulled from a bus gathered the desired attention. Blocking the TCM? I just feel this is one mis-guided (and lost) cause.

no offence

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

1) you are grossly misrepresenting what BLM is and is trying to achieve

2) there are many whites who support them

3) you are grossly misrepresenting the amount of bi-racial support MLK had.

It is easy, in hindsight, to say that MLK marched in support of "much needed / legitimate" civil rights.

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

x2.
i still think blocking the marathon's a dumb idea though.

So you're position is BLM support the police, a majority or at least a plurality of whites support BLM, and MLK had little to no white support?

Segregation of lunch counters was not (generally) by laws, but rather by company/store policies. That particular struggle was about equal access to businesses serving the public, not against laws prevent black people from using those businesses. (There may have been cases of law through local ordinances setting up segregation, but I never heard of that). The big boycott that started at a Woolworth's somewhere is an example. Woolworth the company chose to discriminate.


In the case of buses, yes they were generally public buses and there were in some cases local laws or ordinances enforcing the segregation. But in many cases it was just agency policy, not law. And in some not even policy. In the case of the most famous struggle (Rosa Parks and the Montgomery bus boycott) there was no law or official policy of discrimination. Rather, the bus drivers had authority to say who would sit where and give other orders about stuff on their buses, and they chose to discriminate.


This is analogous to the stop-and-frisk and other violent racist practices in police departments like NYC until recently and in others - no laws saying that police should treat black men differently, but they do. And BLM is protesting that, among other things. BLM is a new name, but it's part of a continuous struggle against a continuous set of issues.


I suggest you be bit more introspective about where your opinions are coming from since they don't have a good factual grounding in terms of history.


No offence.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

I hear the 50 women to Kona movement are going to block the finish on Palani road this year.

Not sure if I should put that in pink.

the exact details don't matter so much, we're in general agreement. That discrimination (de jura, and/or de facto (sp)) happened. Nobody is prohibited from participating in TCM. Well, I guess if you can't or won't pay the entry fee. but...

From what I've been led to believe that the prime beneficiaries of "stop and frisk" were the very locals that were "stopped and frisked." But, I'm sure someone will measure data to see if that's really true, since they don't do that anymore.

I can't imagine stopping marathon participants at mile 25 will somehow achieve the results they desire; attention yes, but not all attention is positive/beneficial. Someone will no doubt measure that as well, and, I could be wrong

---

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

Well, this thread has gone downhill, but since this comment was directed at me, it might be worth passing on a few facts. Actually, the organizers of this particular protest were largely white. And more than a few members of the Black community were not at all happy about this action. And not just a matter of being inconvenienced, as some people seriously injured in a car crash in Easton had to be diverted to a lower-tier local hospital instead of a level one trauma center in Boston. But if you think it's a good idea to support protests that could have been dreamed up by an agent provocateur infiltrator to discredit the organization, hey have at it.

Ha!

No, no too shrill. I suggest coining a term "botherists". They can join the West Baptists.

The saddest thing about this was the pathetic response by the police. What this group did endangered lives and put peoples lives at risk. Instead of tolerating the crap, Boston should have bought in a tow truck, wrapped a chain around the middle of the blockade and dragged them off the road.

Strange that the BLM crowd advocates every solution and idea EXCEPT obeying the law and not violently attacking law enforcement.

Perhaps you need to pull your head out of the sand and get beyond they hype. For every Trayvon Martin, there is a De'Marquise Elkins.

Elkins, who does not get the bad press because he is black, shot a baby in the face because the bother did not have money when she was getting mugged.

Looking at the Department of Justice Statistics, during 2012 - 2013 blacks committed 560K violent crimes against whites and whites committed 99K crimes against blacks. Then wrap your head around the fact that there are 5x as many whites as blacks. The rate of white on hispanic violence is twice that of white on black crime.

In fact, more whites are arrested for crimes than blacks. 2012 for example, 6.5M whites vs 2.6M blacks. The difference again, more blacks commit murder and manslaughter 4203 vs 4101 even though whites make up a larger population (blacks 5x more likely to commit murder statistically) Even in the area of say rape, that is 9K white and 4.5K black, though the percentage of black on white rape far exceeds the opposite, by almost 10:1.

Maui5150 wrote:

Perhaps you need to pull your head out of the sand and get beyond they hype.

Most black criminals who commit crimes don't get much press and public denunciation because:
A: We have a justice system that general prosecutes them strongly
B: They don't claim to serve the public (ie me and you).


Of course it's bad if some random black guy kills anyone, but we know that he is generally going to face the full force of the law, so the level of outrage is appropriately less overall. The public, through the government, is already fighting those crimes.


BLM is about people working for the public not being accountable for their own crimes. That's outrageous. Crime, paid for through taxes, plus no justice afterwards. It's not the same as private crime plus justice afterwards, which is what black criminals generally face.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

Just a small critique: you do realize that your blacklivesmatter dialogue implies that they are uneducated people who can't speak proper English, and that is kind of racist. Just a little bit. You're kind of helping make their point that racism is ingrained everywhere.

No, I think a lot of people including myself speak that way when talking informally and off the cuff. I'm sorry if it comes off that way.

The actual leader of this chapter is very well educated and well spoken but may have not thought this thing through all the way.

Is he prepared to wait around for the 6 hour marathoners? .

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

The amount of "injustice" pales in comparison to the real racial violence. Please by all means. Lets talk rape. What are the numbers of Black on White vs White on Black?

Murder?

In 2013:
3005 white people were killed. 2509 were killed by whites (white on white), 409 were killed by blacks. (remainder other or unknown)
2491 blacks were killed. 189 by whites, 2245 by blacks (remainder other or unknown)

13% of white murders were black on white. 7% of black murders were by whites.

When looking at police shootings through part of this year, 171 shot by police were white, 100 were black and 54 hispanic (60 others/unknown)

Looking at the 385 fatal shootings that were compiled, only 3 resulted in an officer being charged, in other words far more whites were shot and killed and the officers did not have charges filed against them than blacks. Ironically those three cases break down to charges being brought in the killing of 2 blacks and 1 white.

And take a look at Gilbert Collar.

Heard of him?

He was an 18-year-old white student at the University of South Alabama. He was shot and killed while naked, unarmed and under the influence of drugs by a black police officer.

You hear of Michael Brown, but when a black cop, shoots and UNARMED AND NAKED WHITE BOY... Not talk of that.

Trevis Austin, the black officer was cleared.

To me, this is the same story that BLM is pushing - that we need much more accountability of police and a break down of the blue wall of silence.

If you want to stop things like that in the future, you should support BLM. BLM has never said that that stuff is OK and I've read them say about police abuse against white people that that is outrageous too. They're naturally more worked up by police violence against black people, because that is reflective of institutional racism. But your bringing up this case is exactly aligned with the sort of outrage BLM is expressing.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

Might it be more constructive to wear their Black Lives Matter T-shirts and work the aid stations?

"Here's your Gatorade, remember black lives matter."

  


BLM is about people working for the public not being accountable for their own crimes. That's outrageous. Crime, paid for through taxes, plus no justice afterwards. It's not the same as private crime plus justice afterwards, which is what black criminals generally face.[/quote]


OMG! Really? Please explain the crime committed by officer Darren Wilson......which started this entire BLM "movement".

This thread has turned to shi*

I was hoping for some dark humor here and there but dang
.

And... this is why I stay in the LR. Too many idiots on this forum.

Yeah, I said it. The idiots are not in the LR, they're here, they're queer, they don't want any more bears.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Yup. The posts, followed by the deleting of his post without him, you know, offering any kind of acknowledgement that he might have over reacted or something, is pretty funny as well. Well played, angry tri-geek, well played.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

BLEEP the BLM folks. They are exclusionary. Police accountability is a completely different thing.

Lives matter, regardless of race, and the BLM folks could give two flying bleeps about Asians, Hispanics and least of all whites.

Hell, the BLM folks would probably APPLAUD that this happened to a white person, because THAT is who the BLM folks are.

Go look up Kelly Thomas, especially the video as well as the morgue photos. The Hispanic and White offers who beat him to death were also cleared.

I worked as a paramedic in a urban city. Ended up walking away from the job with a lot of new stereotypes from on the job experiences. Experiences that were repeated on a continuous occurrence. The way I was treated as a human being was night and day difference when responding to a call in the city compared to the suburbs. The lack of respect shown toward my partner and myself while trying to help people was unbelievable. We would be trying to help a complete stranger and almost become a patient ourselves. I know that police officers are respected even far more less. I could never be a police officer after seeing what I've seen. Can you imagine trying to do that job when you know that people are trying to hurt you just...because. I challenge anyone who says police are the ones causing this problem to do a "ride along" in a urban setting. Don't point fingers until you have actually experienced their point of view. They choose a career that requires them to 'protect and serve' , not sit on the computer and BS like the rest of us get to do during our "Job". They have families to get home to. People are caught in bad situations and decisions have to be made, this person or me. I'm sorry but i'm supporting the person who chose to protect and serve not the one with a criminal background. No matter white, black, or purple.

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�There ought to be something very special about the boundary conditions of the universe, and what can be more special than that there is no boundary?�- Stephen Hawking

Well said. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to several of the posters here who don't have your kind of "real world" experience. Some postings just show a high level of naivete and just don't have a grasp of the real world....especially regarding experiences law enforcement officials face in certain neighborhoods every day and night. If BLM was legit, they wouldn't have such a problem with "all lives matter".

Where did I say that? Simply because I point out the errors in his assumptions does not mean that I believe the polar opposite is true.

The world is not all black & white (excuse the pun).

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

So what is your position statement?

Let's talk! What are they? Source your numbers. Hint: Look for asterisks on "Table 42."

I dunno...seems the whole point of BLM is that LEO's are hurting and killing black citizens just....because.

Yes, it is an issue for ALL citizens. The police force acts with impudence across all racial barriers....but to think that it does not happen on a significant higher level against African-Americans is just willfully ignorant.

The implication that the black community somehow *deserves* this because of how some members act is pretty disgusting.

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

BLM is not anti-police, they are anti-police violence (especially against AA). Many whites support the goals and efforts of BLM, just as their was biracial support for MLK.

The biracial support that MLK had was far from universal, and not just in the South. In hindsight, it is easy to imagine that MLK had widespread, biracial support, but it simply isn't true.

Oh, and I think the plans of BLM re: the marathon are pretty stoopid and will do more to fuel the hatred displayed in this very thread than achieve their goals.

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Agree, it's an issue for all Americans. And of course it happens to blacks on a higher level. But the facts are the facts......blacks commit the majority of crime in this country.....yet they account for less than 13% of our population. Divide that further down....black males are about 6.5%......the ratio of crime committed by this group is truly alarming and way out of balance. BLM needs to focus on the source of this.....not blaming/killing white police officers.

Slowlane19 wrote:

Can you imagine trying to do that job when you know that people are trying to hurt you just...because.

Can you imagine living in a country where you're afraid to call the police because you have seen them abuse innocent people with impunity? Where you're afraid to travel to certain states your whole life? Where you know that no matter how successful and law-abiding you are (eg James Blake, Skip Gates and many many others) if a police officer assaults or arrests you in a bogus way, other officers will rally around them? Where if you're a young person on the street, they can stop and search you without any probable cause?


Can you imagine such a thing? Some people don't have to imagine this - they're living it. You talk about a "ride along." I wish yall could try driving or living while black for a few years, just doing the same stuff you do now, See what it's about. That's your ride along. People don't have to be police. People cannot change the color of their skin.


I haven't experienced police violence first-hand (I have seen it) but I have had police follow/question me for no apparent reason other than the color of my skin. And to make this connect a little bit to endurance sport, a white friend of mine who I travelled to events with for a couple years once remarked "Wow, I never had police talk to me this much before." This was being pulled over with him driving and me in the passenger seat. We never talked about racism, politics or anything that would prompt that remark (just girls, bikes, gossip, etc). To me, that rate of being questioned by police was a normal experience.


Policing is hard. Sure. If someone can't do the job properly due to how they think the public treats they or even the public actually treating them badly, resign. That's fine. If it's too hard, they should quit. They can and should if they feel that way.


So don't dare to say that because you believe (or even in reality) the black public often treat police badly that protesting against police injustice is wrong. Police, as public servants with guns, have to be held to the highest standards. If they can't, they should turn in their guns and badges.


I back police in my city 100% on every fight they have for better wages and benefits, etc. But I do not accept that because their job is hard they should be less accountable for doing it badly.



Did Tamir Rice have a criminal background? Did James Blake has a criminal background?

Eric Garner had a criminal background - does that mean he deserved death?

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http://www.jt10000.com/

There are lots of black protest groups that focus on black violence.

But due to recent media attention there's an impression that BLM constitutes the entirety of black protests. Or that all blacks support BLM.

As I pointed out above, there's a suspicious amount of overreach in this thread. Perfectly valid criticism of this decision this decision by BLM or even the entire organization of BLM somehow seemingly explodes into a lot of emotional outbursts about blacks as a whole, as if BLM is some sort of symbolic distillation of all-things-black.

I'm a huge supporter of law enforcement. I will always take their side and give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise beyond a shadow of doubt. They put their lives on the line for our benefit every day. If people don't want to get sideways with the police I would suggest refraining from criminal activity.

I did my paramedic internship in NYC (Bronx actually) and I could not agree more. Working EMS in a small town shows you a scary side of humanity as it is. Working a big city does things to your perceptions that can't be undone (or unseen). When people call 911 just so they can rob the drug box on an ambulance it is time to re-evaluate things

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

While their objective is to bring awareness to police violence that isn't the tenor we hear from them. You hear more about them wishing ill will to LEOs. It is one thing to march and protest demanding fair treatment, it is a whole different march when you are chanting "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon."

They would garner much more support if it was a unified voice demanding more accountability in the police force. But that isn't what we hear, as with any collective, the overtly loud extremists will make the whole group look bad, no matter how small of a percentage of the group falls on the extremist side.

Protesting/disrupting at completely non related events doesn't leave people with warm and fuzzies about them either.

If the youth African American community idolized more MLK and Neil DeGrasse Tyson figures and fewer $0.50 rappers and pos athletes I think things would be much different.

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Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

My hunch is that this is just saber rattling. BLM has accomplished their goal which is to have people talk about it, in a tri forum of all places. They will not block the runners.

MTBSully wrote:

While their objective is to bring awareness to police violence that isn't the tenor we hear from them. You hear more about them wishing ill will to LEOs.

You're getting your information from the wrong place if that's what you're hearing more of.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

I sympathise with you and completely agree that policing in the US needs reform... Better training, stronger internal affairs and better relationships with local communities. They could learn much from reforms instituted in the UK in the last 20 years.

But you also must respect the fact that police officers ARE putting their lives on the line in their jobs at times (police of all races). And in many cases individuals DO resist arrest, which escalates the situation rapidly. Yes, better training could avoid overly forceful use of weapons and there are undoubtedly bad apples in every police force. But really, don't resist arrest and you probably won't be injured or worse. Eric Garner resisted arrest. Of course he didn't deserve to die, but the officer clearly had no intent for him to die either. His health was clearly a factor. Michael Brown resisted arrest. I'm not saying police don't err, and they can err badly, but these two examples (Garner and Brown) were not the best examples to use to protest excessive use of police force. Michael Slager would be a better example, but he's been charged with murder, as he should be based on the evidence.

As for policies like 'stop and frisk', I understand they tend to target minorities, and that is far from an ideal situation. However, they have shown to work well (at least in NYC) and are - ironically perhaps - supported by many members of the black community who believe their neighborhoods are safer with such policies. Murders are up as 'stop and frisk' has been reduced in NY (thanks to Mayor DeBlasio):
http://www.nydailynews.com/...er-article-1.2247406

The only way to change your stereotype is to change how people perceive you. If a group of people do not agree to change their behavior, people will not change their perception. Everyone knows the statistics, everyone knows where crime is more prevelant. Until that changes there will always be a stereotype. Not every white person is a rich racist, not every black person is a criminal, and not every Muslim is a terrorist. We are human, we stereotype, it's a defense mechanism.

I've seen black police officers being called "white" because they were questioning a black person. Really? I have not seen any reason why kids would be afraid of police except people telling them to be. How many times do we hear kids getting caught in cross fire between gangs. I would like you to have to go on that call with me. When we are there trying to resuscitate a child tell me that police officer doesn't care...

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�There ought to be something very special about the boundary conditions of the universe, and what can be more special than that there is no boundary?�- Stephen Hawking

Bullshit. People need to obey the law and stop acting like animals. The asshole in Dallas that was shot by police after he broke into a car dealership by driving his car through the glass walls of the dealership. He was caught and then tried to fight the police and would not comply with their orders. The police do not need more training. People in our society need training to learn to act like a humans. It doesn't matter what you skin color is, you have an obligation to act like a civilized human or face the ugly consequences of your actions. It's a gross injustice to spin this truth any other way.

. Love the earl Campbell reference, he was just flat out awesome! On a more serious note, why not just end the marathon short of the protest? It would give everyone a pr, just like the Chattanooga swim or the old Austria Ironman run? Everyone wins! "Yeah dude, that's the year I finally broke 4 hours...".

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Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!

It makes no sense to pick on individual incidents and make blanket statements based on them. Of course people need to respect the law and police, as I said. Of course more education is needed in that regard. But to pretend there is absolutely no room for improving policing techniques, training, community relations and cultures within some forces, is choosing to ignore part of the problem.

Slowlane19 wrote:

The only way to change your stereotype is to change how people perceive you.

How the fuck is someone like James Blake or Henry Gates supposed to change the stereotype of how they are perceived?


How was Tamir Rice?


How am I? I went to one of the best secondary schools in the country, one of the best colleges in the world, and was at one of the best universities in the world when I realized how police were following me. But it's my job to change how police perceive me (or black people in general)? Or BLM's job?


BLM is telling police and the justice system to change. That's 100% legit. If you think thuggy black people or whoever need to do a better job with their own lives, that fine, but police abuse of even the most perfect black people makes BLM's goals 100% evidently righteous. It's BS to suggest they should slow it down because black communities themselves are not good enough in some way. Even if some huge % of black people were criminals (which is not the case) it wouldn't mean it's OK for police to be able to kill innocent black people with impunity.


I'll add that if police are incapable of trying harder to overcome their belief in stereotypes, that's a pretty sad indictment of their professionalism: there are too many black people they think are dangerous so it's OK to kill a few innocents along the way and not be punished. The job is too hard to do better. Wow


And even for the people who are actually criminals (Eric Garner whose crime was selling cigarettes), is death or beatings without a trial an appropriate response?

Slowlane19 wrote:

When we are there trying to resuscitate a child tell me that police officer doesn't care.

Who said that here? What I'm saying and what is the core message of BLM is that there is widespread institutional racism in police and the justice system which is not acceptable.


You're making up straw men and raising alternative issues (some legit and some bogus) to undermine an extremely just and vital cause: BLM.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

You are barking up the wrong tree and also making a blanket statement about police needing more training. Are the police actions always perfect? No and they never will be. They go through loads of training already.

The problem with the people is massive. The problem with the police is tiny. Focus on the big problem first.

My analogy response to your post: If you are in massive debt and continue to spend too much at Starbucks and are also going on extravagant vacations, living in a mansion, and driving luxury cars....Starbucks is not your problem.

If you twist the facts when you cite a case you lose some credibility. Whether you have committed no crime, a petty crime or a serious crime, you should not resist arrest. Garner was not "killed or beaten" by the police. He was taken to the ground while resisting arrest. You can argue excessive force, but if he didn't commit a crime and then resist arrest no force would have been necessary!

What a remarkable excuse for denying the scope/impact of institutional racism and dismissing the need to do anything about it.


Someone here said that some commenters here would have been saying how wrong Martin Luther King Jr. Your post exemplifies that.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

I"ll second that. The Tyler Rose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One bad a$$ mofo but the nicest most down to earth guy in the world off the field. Good ole country boy.

We can go through a whole litany of systemic and societal reasons why the black crime rate is so high....but I don't think it is really going to help your argument.

More disturbing is the inference that they somehow deserve this treatment since their crime rate is so high.

As for the your last statement....WTF? BLM is not killing police officers, let alone targeting white ones.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Hey, hey, hey, who said you could use actual data and statistics. This is supposed to remain a philosophical, biased and when possible racist discussion.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Silly me.

Best thing I can say I suppose can be summed up in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndaXQeRPO0g

I guess you missed the coverage of the BLM protesters marching and chanting "what do we want....dead cops.....when do we want it.....now".......in addition to the "pigs in a blanket" chant at another demonstration. Try to stay informed of the big picture here......which you are obviously missing.

ps....."deserve this treatment"? What are you referring to.....getting arrested for committing a crime?

Confirmation bias is a powerful thing. I'm pretty sure I can find online videos of white people promoting violence against blacks. In fact, shoot, it's in this thread.

Point being that the vast majority of "BLM" protesters don't seem to promote violence at all.

But amongst the hundreds of thousands of protestors and the millions of cell phones out there, some do. And in today's world, it gets repeated over and over in an echo chamber until it dominates the narrative. And they get associated with BLM even if no direct connection is actually made to organized BLM protests.

The amount of White Fear in this thread is pretty amazing.

 

Really? Guessed you missed the coverage of the Baltimore and Ferguson riots? Strange....I didn't see any protestors trying to stop the looting. You are really stretching for excuses here!

The crime rate among the black community is immaterial to them being the victims of unnecessary violence at the hands of LEO's. Higher crime rates does not allow LEO's to step outside the law. To infer otherwise is to suggest that the black community deserves this treatment.

You said BLM needs to stop "blaming / killing" police officers. If you could provide a link to where they have actually killed police officers, that would be swell. Last I checked, chants at a protest, distasteful as those were, are protected under a legal document known as the Bill of Rights.

Based on your posts, I don't think you are familiar with that document. Highly recommended reading.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Wait...wut? Remind me again what triggered the Baltimore riots, please...and yes, there were many protestors who pleaded for peaceful demonstrations and to stop the looting. But FOX News is not your source for such information.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Rioters aren't BLM protesters. Probably some crossover of personnel. But I wouldn't classify the people organizing a protest as the same thing as rioters. The one similarity is they're both black?

But this thread is train-wrecking. Take this to the Lavender Room, biatch! I'll tear your lily-Aryan ass apart, rhetorically. (yes, I'm a skinny-ass white guy too, of course). Using logic, and maybe science! You'll be carried out of the Lavender room in the fetal position, crying like a little girl.

I wouldn't call it "white fear." I'd call it we are sick to death of always being the scapegoat as to "why" African Americans are still being oppressed. The entire title "Black Lives Matter" gives the sense that Caucasians believe they do not. If you want to do some real work, how about targeting gang rallies out in South Central California and let the Crips and the Bloods know that Black Lives matter? Why is it that Al Sharpton only shows up when it's a white on black issue? I don't see him addressing black on white, black on black issues. I am betting there are more black on black crimes in this Country than white on black or black on white. THAT is who BLM should be targeting, not a bunch of marathoners.

AND before you go blasting me, I have two African American brothers, I am not racist. One 22 and one 19 year old. Adopted them when they were both 6 weeks old. I love them as much as my biological sister. They know their lives matter. Both in college getting an education that THEY earned.

Here is what is laughable....critics of BLM retort with "ALL live matter" and want the black community to act inclusive. But these same people are the first ones to single out the black community and view them as a separate entity in attempts to disparage them.

Convenient.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

This thread has slipped off the rails and should be moved to the LR

You know.....I sort of doubt that. But, you just showed your true intelligence and logic on this subject. Yep, best you get your ass in the Lavender Room.

I still don't get how breaking someone else's thing, which has nothing at all to do with your thing, fixes your broken thing?

Your thing is still broken, and someone - who wasn't mad at you before, and MAYBE could have helped - now has their own broken thing, and you are directly responsible for breaking it, for no good reason, other than maybe you wanted them to see how it feels to have a broken thing?

YMMV

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

What about the black community singling out itself with "black" magazines like Ebony? And before you say, ah, but that's cultural, at what point do we have to accept we've become a completely mixed race society and it becomes inappropriate to highlight racial divides? Or are white supremacists ok too? You can't have it both ways. The only way to move on is to stop using race/skin color as a tag. A black magazine, or TV show, or whatever, only perpetuates racial divides.

Was that directed at me? Which community is BLM pointing at? Hmmm

Yeah. Your post reminds me of this

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http://www.jt10000.com/

So to get back on topic, and apols if you've stated your position earlier in the thread as I haven't read every post, do you support the planned BLM protest at the marathon or not?

Interesting that some members of BLM are now distancing themselves from the plans:
http://www.startribune.com/...-backlash/330034841/

I think both the police and the black community have to both recognize they each have issues to address and try to work together with constructive dialogue and new ideas. This kind of protest only serves to alienate the community and increase tensions.

I haven't said anything about that. I don't have a strong opinion either way. I wouldn't do it myself and imagine that there are better targets (I'm not familiar with Minnesota)

I will say I do not agree with the idea that protests about significant issues should not inconvenience the public - and the issue of systematic violence is so important I wouldn't say they shouldn't do it.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

Let's see what the responses to this are...


"Ashley Oliver, a member of Black Lives Matter-Minneapolis and the legal chairwoman of the NAACP in Minneapolis, also took to social media, speaking on her own behalf. “It pains me to dissociate myself from this rally,” she said in an interview Tuesday. Although she’s been criticized by some for speaking out against the protest, she said disrupting the marathon is the wrong forum to get the Black Lives Matters message out. There’s no connection between the runners or the marathon to the injustices such as police brutality that she’s fighting against, she said. “This puts the movement in an awful light,” Oliver said. “This is being done for publicity and for disturbance sake. I can’t get behind that. Our message will get lost.” Oliver said some of the runners in this race sympathize with the Black Lives Matter cause. “Maybe they weren’t marching with us before, but they really aren’t now. … We can’t do this alone. Our communities intertwine. We have to have allies in the community,” she said."


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Indeed.
I agree with her, but apparently jt10000 doesn't. Well, his answer was very 'diplomatic' so I'm not 100% sure.

Lost in all this discussion is that this part of the race course (Summit Ave) is a really nice street with I am assuming some wealthy folks living there. I wonder how this all will play out in an affluent part of town. I'm just guessing the rich folks are going to ask for (and get) police presence ahead of time. Plus that area of the course is already packed with people normally. Going to be interesting if it happens.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

They should set these guys up across the street from BLM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4xLolOI9Po

#hillbillylivesmatter

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I assume that this is a "no business as usual" approach to protests. "You want to ignore the problems we're facing and lead your normal life? Too bad."
It's an approach that has its purposes, I just think it's ill fitted for this one.

Looks like St. Paul is going to do what it takes to prevent any disruption to the marathon itself:

http://www.mprnews.org/.../2015/09/30/marathon

Pretty clear stance - Race organizers sent an email to participants encouraging them all to come out and enjoy the day.

I hope it all goes off with out a hitch.

Bob - what problems are we facing? The media continually racially charging this country? Racism only exists because the media continues to bring it up as an 'issue'. I know that there are some select individuals that believe the color of your skin makes a difference, but honestly, I do not see that in my local community and I do not see it as a social justice issue - at this point in our society.

They showed up locally (McKinney, TX) when the pool party event took place over the summer. Having been at the rally, those speaking on behalf of BLM were BUSED into town, not locals. All media coverage that showed any tension was due to a group of people trying to make more out of what was going on than there was. The locals were all talking - peacefully. The conversations went about like this:

"The cop went too far."
"Yes, I agree. But she had multiple opportunities to walk away, yet continued to show disrespect."
"Yeah, I saw that, too. Maybe the parents should have been paying closer attention to what their child was doing."
"I agree."

At the end of the event, they passed out a jug asking for money. The entire movement is about creating a problem when one was not there to begin with. And to make money. For the media, they are whores who only want ratings and will run with any slant they can to make it more entertaining.

So I have to ask, in all seriousness, what are the problems you see us facing?

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Team Gingerfight

i'd start with people like you who choose to disregard the existence of racism, and who ask anyone fighting against racism to stop.
you've had plenty of time to see racism in action, and you've chosen not to see it. i don't think anything i say on this thread is going to change that.
I will, however, point out how closely your post resembles the letter from 8 Alabama clergymen from April 1963.
It's here, if you want to read it - http://dsapresents.org/...eKingBirmingham1.pdf

Then you can read MLK's response, it's his Letter from Birmingham Jail.

Maybe Bob and JT and Power and the other BLM sympathizers here can also address how they feel about the arrest of Latausha Nedd. Latausha is the Georgia based BLM member who recently went on You Tube brandishing an automatic pistol along with a machete promoting how its "open season' on the police and all the "crackers". Pretty pathetic and just another example of why this anti-police/anti-white "organization" should not be supported.

whelps, i'm surly glad we have cell phone cameras. otherwise you would have supported that (i believe) charleston officer that shot a man in the back and placed a taser in his hands, lying about the whole situation.

look, it's one single incident, but black people have been crying about this stuff for YEARS. perhaps, just perhaps, there is some truth behind it?



BOOM. preach man, preach. but seriously. do you expect to change the mind of a racists?

i'm not black, but one of my best friends is. he's a well educated man, wouldn't hurt a fly. goes to church every friday and saturday. has a great family. when we were in college and then grad school together he was pulled over at least 25 times. you're not going to believe this, but it was because he was black.

when you are not speeding, not breaking any rules of the road and have no criminal offenses or prior driving offenses and you are pulled over that many times, it is called racial profiling/racism. i once asked him why the hell he stopped at stop signs for 4 whole seconds (he counted out loud) and he said it was because he doesn't want to be pulled over and arrested. yeap, ARRESTED. this man was once arrested by a cop because the cop said he tried to crash his car into the cruiser. (story: he was parked at stop and shop and the cop waived him out, he pulled out and left stop and shop, cop pulled him over, said he tried to crash into his car and JAILED him for the night).

no one expects white people to UNDERSTAND, you never will. you'll never have any idea what it is like to live as a colored person (especially black) in this country. all they are asking is that you EMPATHIZE with their situation and maybe, just maybe realize that we are all in this together and help out.

i hear a lot of bitching on here about black on black crime, all lives matter. that shit just shows how god damn ignorant you really are to things in the world.

imagine VW's emission issues involved their petrol and diesel cars and the disel car owners were protesting how they are getting screwed. would you come along and say hey, shut up, we're all getting screwed? that's a shitty example, but that's how stupid you sound. i can use such a shitty example to demonstrate how ridiculous you sound.

the reality is very simple, black people are murdered at an incredibly high rate (for all you stat heads, look it up) compared to whites. that is of concern for BLACK people. yes, the movement is in regard of police violence, but it is particular to police violence against people who are black. how god damn hard is that to understand. how fucking racist/ignorant/prejudice do you have to be?

shouldn't you people be on the IMMD board saying that ALL races matter because those folks doing IMMD clearly don't give a fuck about any other racers, or other athletes in the region, right? no, it's not that they don't care about those races, it's that those races don't affect them.

white privilege is one of the greatest gifts you can be born with and to quote the great benjamin parker (spider mans uncle), "with great power comes great responsibility". (that was my effort of lightening the mood a little).

john

p.s.- though i do not support the actions of BLM at the TCM i can understand their cause/reason to do it and empathize with them.

removed most of what i'd written before, since it's too far away from the topic.
if you don't see the racism that exists in American society, it's because you're choosing to not see it. nothing i write on this thread will change that.

I'm pretty sir for every such case, I can find a video or incident of a coo actually killing an unarmed black man.

You can decide for yourself which is worse.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

ahhchon,

The more pertinent question on this thread remains to be answered: Do you SERIOUSLY believe that BLM should block this Marathon and prevent 10,000 runners from running the last 1.2 miles? If you do, then you might as well tell New York City's BLM chapter to block NY's West Village Halloween Gay Parade.

No offense to the NY LGBT chapter.

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