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Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel
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Didn't really want to buy a new disc wheel. My current disc wheel has the old 182 hub, pretty old but in good condition with ceramic bearings.

Ground down the lip on the back of the cassette so it's flush, ultegra, and the 11 speed works on the 10 speed hub. I'm guessing this won't work on a dura ace cassette as it's carbon.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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Take one of the cogs out...I.e. make it a 10 speed.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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All you needed was a new free hub body. About 49.99 and your wheel would have been an 11 speed. 😉
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [TrekGeek] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah didn't want 10 speed as I have di2 and it might just go off the cassette.

As it's an older disc wheel the 11 speed freewheel won't fit, also I believe you need to change the axle. I did convert a set of 404s from 2012 and I required to get a new freewheel, axle and wheel re-dished.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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Another option regarding getting your wheel to work. Free and very simple:

http://darkspeedworks.com/blog 11speed.htm



.

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Feb 8, 16 6:06
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks I did initially think of that but didn't fancy re-adjusting my gears every time.

Surprised no one with a milling machine is adjusting 11 speed cassettes for 10 speed hubs. Using a grinding disc is a little agricultural....
In Reply To:
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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Can you post a pic of the cassette area you ground off and the approximate depth? Interested in doing the same for my 10 speed discs.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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For the price of an edco cassette that does this
http://www.edcoengineering.nl/template/front_print.php?id=378&pid=157


You could probably get an engineering shop to mill down 2 or 3 Ultegra cassettes...


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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Why is nobody selling these "milled" cassettes?
I am sure bunch of people would buy them to save their 10 speed wheels.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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Good idea. Only problem that I can think of is that the big cog might dig into the cassette body with the shoulder roemoved. Can you post a pic of the cassette. It looks like slowtwitchers can't believe that you could do it youself.

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Busy Spending My Children's Inheritance!
Last edited by: Sweeney: Jan 10, 15 4:09
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]
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Here's a picture of the ground down cassette. I'm not sure if this would work for spoked wheels as the rear mech May foul with the spokes. On my disc there is plenty of clearance so no problems...

http://tinypic.com/...?pic=1zlchnt&s=8
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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Nice, and do you have no adjustments to the RD when switching rear wheels?

---------------------------
Busy Spending My Children's Inheritance!
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]
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To be honest I didn't have a test run but the top few gears worked so as long as these cogs are lined up and it's the same cassette spacing to my normal wheels it shouldn't be a major problem.

The difference between the two cassettes is 1.85mm.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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I have the same issue so looking at these threads with interest.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I had this problem last year and it was not solvable for my 900 Disc. I couldn't find a hub that would fit. I was able to change the hub on my 808's.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Last edited by: Bryancd: Jan 10, 15 6:15
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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I know I have read about some re-dishing involved for 10 to 11 changes.
Any issues with the disc not aligning correctly?
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [duvivr6] [ In reply to ]
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duvivr6 wrote:
Why is nobody selling these "milled" cassettes? I am sure bunch of people would buy them to save their 10 speed wheels.


Because, while such modified cassettes may work with some true disc wheels (but not covered ones like those by hed or flo), they won't work with many spoked wheels. The issue is not the RD and the spoke clearance when shifting to the biggest cog. The bigger problem is that when the back of an 11-speed cassette is milled by ~1.5mm, the clearance between the back of the cassette cogs/cassette spider and the hub body/hub flanges becomes extremely tight on many wheels. Sometimes the clearance is zero or is a negative number. From measurements that I have taken, milling the back of a cassette won't safely work on a 2006-2008 zipp 808 wheelset for these reasons. So I did this instead, simple and keeps everything future-compatible too.

Greg @ dsw



.

Advanced Design Top Tube Aero Bento Packs for Road, Gravel, & Triathlon....Direct bolt-mount and ZERO-slip universal low-profile strap mount....Made by us in the USA.
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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Jan 10, 15 6:38
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
Why is nobody selling these "milled" cassettes? I am sure bunch of people would buy them to save their 10 speed wheels.


Because, while such modified cassettes may work with some true disc wheels (but not covered ones like those by hed or flo), they won't work with many spoked wheels. The issue is not the RD and the spoke clearance when shifting to the biggest cog. The bigger problem is that when the back of an 11-speed cassette is milled by ~1.5mm, the clearance between the back of the cassette cogs/cassette spider and the hub body/hub flanges becomes extremely tight on many wheels. Sometimes the clearance is zero or is a negative number. From measurements that I have taken, milling the back of a cassette won't safely work on a 2006-2008 zipp 808 wheelset for these reasons. So I did this instead, simple and keeps everything future-compatible too.

Greg @ dsw



.

Copy thanks for the info, I had just asked this above since I was pretty sure there was an issue related to the spokes in some wheels.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [duvivr6] [ In reply to ]
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I've done the 10 speed conversion as DSW suggests on his site and it works a treat. Just dropped the 14 tooth out of my 11 speed cassette and adjusted the high/low limit screws accordingly. The temptation is still there for me personally to upgrade my Zipp 999's to a new firecrest 808 and disc, but will see what my bank balance tells me when I get close to race season. My new P5 has wiped me out for now.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Ironmike78] [ In reply to ]
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Or you could buy an 11spd Campy cassette and Campy 11spd freehub. Should be a direct swap with 10spd
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the pic!
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [kyle h] [ In reply to ]
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Or you could buy a Wheels Manufacturing Accellerator 11 speed cassette that is Campy spacing but fits a 10 speed Shimano hub. Leonard Zinn claims that the Campy 11 speed spacing works with Shimano 11 speed shifting even though the Shimano 11 speed cassette has slightly different spacing. http://velonews.competitor.com/...n-plain-sight_303199
I haven't tried it yet on my Zipp 900 disc but I'm looking at it.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [ludlaw] [ In reply to ]
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OP said they've got di2 so they should be able to fine tune the shifting with a Campy cassette.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [kyle h] [ In reply to ]
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kyle h wrote:
Or you could buy an 11spd Campy cassette and Campy 11spd freehub. Should be a direct swap with 10spd

So if I have a Zipp Sub-9 disc with a 10-speed Shimano freehub, then I could easily just buy a Campagnolo 11-speed freehub and replace the Shimano freehub with the Campagnolo without worrying about re-dishing the wheel?


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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [MortenFalk] [ In reply to ]
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It is likely less expensive to just buy a Wheels Mfg cassette than to buy a new freehub and a Campy cassette.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [ludlaw] [ In reply to ]
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Or you could just modify the 11 speed cassette. Seems like there are many options other than buying new wheels...
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
Why is nobody selling these "milled" cassettes? I am sure bunch of people would buy them to save their 10 speed wheels.


Because, while such modified cassettes may work with some true disc wheels (but not covered ones like those by hed or flo), they won't work with many spoked wheels. The issue is not the RD and the spoke clearance when shifting to the biggest cog. The bigger problem is that when the back of an 11-speed cassette is milled by ~1.5mm, the clearance between the back of the cassette cogs/cassette spider and the hub body/hub flanges becomes extremely tight on many wheels. Sometimes the clearance is zero or is a negative number. From measurements that I have taken, milling the back of a cassette won't safely work on a 2006-2008 zipp 808 wheelset for these reasons. So I did this instead, simple and keeps everything future-compatible too.

Greg @ dsw



.

And since I am idiot, just glued some tubulars on new Taiwan wheels to find out later the hub is 10 speed! Planning to do the minus cog for now, hopefyully can find a campy hub.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [MortenFalk] [ In reply to ]
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MortenFalk wrote:
kyle h wrote:
Or you could buy an 11spd Campy cassette and Campy 11spd freehub. Should be a direct swap with 10spd


So if I have a Zipp Sub-9 disc with a 10-speed Shimano freehub, then I could easily just buy a Campagnolo 11-speed freehub and replace the Shimano freehub with the Campagnolo without worrying about re-dishing the wheel?

So has anyone done a mod that worked for the older Zipp disc's other than the trick of taking a cog out? Has anyone do the campagnolo change process?

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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hey bryan. you were able to convert your 808s? getting ready to go 11sd and need to make sure I can convert my 808s.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [vanzk] [ In reply to ]
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Did not work for me

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.tokencycling.com/...195&pc_parent=65

Review here that answers the question about final cassette offset and how it compares to standard 11 speed freehub/cassette install:
http://www.nutsbike.com/tag/cassette
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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I have a Sub-9 and it was 10 speed, I got a new TT bike and went with Di2 11 speed and changed the sub-9 to a campy free hub and slapped on a campy 11 speed cassette with my Di2 and it works great. shifts like a dream with no issues. I guess the spacing between the campy and shimano is very similar.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [cjb3] [ In reply to ]
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cjb3 wrote:
hey bryan. you were able to convert your 808s? getting ready to go 11sd and need to make sure I can convert my 808s.

I did, I put in a Campy hub.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryan and jmuise, does the converted Campy freehub wheel swap in and out with your other 11 speed wheels w/o requiring a range adjustment on the rear derailleur?
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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SummitAK wrote:
http://www.tokencycling.com/...195&pc_parent=65

Review here that answers the question about final cassette offset and how it compares to standard 11 speed freehub/cassette install:
http://www.nutsbike.com/tag/cassette

Too bad they do not make an 11-32

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [duvivr6] [ In reply to ]
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duvivr6 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
Why is nobody selling these "milled" cassettes? I am sure bunch of people would buy them to save their 10 speed wheels.


Because, while such modified cassettes may work with some true disc wheels (but not covered ones like those by hed or flo), they won't work with many spoked wheels. The issue is not the RD and the spoke clearance when shifting to the biggest cog. The bigger problem is that when the back of an 11-speed cassette is milled by ~1.5mm, the clearance between the back of the cassette cogs/cassette spider and the hub body/hub flanges becomes extremely tight on many wheels. Sometimes the clearance is zero or is a negative number. From measurements that I have taken, milling the back of a cassette won't safely work on a 2006-2008 zipp 808 wheelset for these reasons. So I did this instead, simple and keeps everything future-compatible too.

Greg @ dsw



.


And since I am idiot, just glued some tubulars on new Taiwan wheels to find out later the hub is 10 speed! Planning to do the minus cog for now, hopefyully can find a campy hub.

I continue to look at how to use my older zipp disc with a new 11 speed, for minimal costs.

Looks like the campy hub could work but first there is the cost for the hub and then the 11/32 cassette. And once this is done, that is all I could use it with.

But if I use your trick of removing a cog, first I get the 11/32 cassette as a shimano decent priced part. I can just remove, (looking for my tool now), the 10 speed 11/32 I have on it now,
and just put on the modified 11/32 11 speed. really no extra cost since I can modifiy this back to 11 speed just putting the cog in. And if I want to use the zipp to race on my 10 speed bike,
I can just put the old 11/32 10 speed cassette back on, again now cost.

So yes this means I have to be a little bit of a bike mechanic, but sure seems for cost and compatibility, this might be the ideal way to go.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I knew I ran across another conversion cassette option recently. Bikerumor says only 11-25 available. That may be what Reynolds was planning to stock. The EDCO site lists multiple sizes for 10 speed, but there may be some issue with the webpage format because there is a 10s to 11s section that shows nothing while many of the monoblock listings show 10sp freehub compatibility. I can see where they could make this work with one cassette style and a different lockring for each (10 and 11sp) freehub, but this would mean the entire 1.8mm width increase hangs off the end of the freehub. Seems like taking up some width at each end of the cassette would be a more conservative approach.

For those of you considering this option it is probably worth corresponding with EDCO or Reynolds.

Edco 10s to 11s on Bikerumor

Edco Monoblock 11-32
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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SummitAK wrote:
I knew I ran across another conversion cassette option recently. Bikerumor says only 11-25 available. That may be what Reynolds was planning to stock. The EDCO site lists multiple sizes for 10 speed, but there may be some issue with the webpage format because there is a 10s to 11s section that shows nothing while many of the monoblock listings show 10sp freehub compatibility. I can see where they could make this work with one cassette style and a different lockring for each (10 and 11sp) freehub, but this would mean the entire 1.8mm width increase hangs off the end of the freehub. Seems like taking up some width at each end of the cassette would be a more conservative approach.

For those of you considering this option it is probably worth corresponding with EDCO or Reynolds.

Edco 10s to 11s on Bikerumor

Edco Monoblock 11-32

Interesting. Looks like this would work. Sure not cheap.

..

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
Why is nobody selling these "milled" cassettes? I am sure bunch of people would buy them to save their 10 speed wheels.


Because, while such modified cassettes may work with some true disc wheels (but not covered ones like those by hed or flo), they won't work with many spoked wheels. The issue is not the RD and the spoke clearance when shifting to the biggest cog. The bigger problem is that when the back of an 11-speed cassette is milled by ~1.5mm, the clearance between the back of the cassette cogs/cassette spider and the hub body/hub flanges becomes extremely tight on many wheels. Sometimes the clearance is zero or is a negative number. From measurements that I have taken, milling the back of a cassette won't safely work on a 2006-2008 zipp 808 wheelset for these reasons. So I did this instead, simple and keeps everything future-compatible too.

Greg @ dsw



.


And since I am idiot, just glued some tubulars on new Taiwan wheels to find out later the hub is 10 speed! Planning to do the minus cog for now, hopefyully can find a campy hub.


I continue to look at how to use my older zipp disc with a new 11 speed, for minimal costs.

Looks like the campy hub could work but first there is the cost for the hub and then the 11/32 cassette. And once this is done, that is all I could use it with.

But if I use your trick of removing a cog, first I get the 11/32 cassette as a shimano decent priced part. I can just remove, (looking for my tool now), the 10 speed 11/32 I have on it now,
and just put on the modified 11/32 11 speed. really no extra cost since I can modifiy this back to 11 speed just putting the cog in. And if I want to use the zipp to race on my 10 speed bike,
I can just put the old 11/32 10 speed cassette back on, again now cost.

So yes this means I have to be a little bit of a bike mechanic, but sure seems for cost and compatibility, this might be the ideal way to go.

.


Your solution sounds workable to me. If however, you did go with Campa, the free-hub will accommodate 9-10-11 speed Campa cassettes and you can run Campy 10 with Shimano 10 or Campy 11 with Shimano 11 without drama and so you get plenty of options. You can also just buy a Chorus cassette and not worry about Record/Super Record $$. Zipp free-hubs however, are not cheap - but I'd still think this is the most technically sound and simplest way to go.

One other thing to consider is that 11 speed chains are finer than 10 speed ones - but I have never changed chains myself.

There are several technical articles here on Slowtwitch on this or related topics. This one looks at this from the point of view of the cassette - may be useful.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Cassette_Evolution_4171.html
Last edited by: PT: Apr 10, 15 17:33
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [PT] [ In reply to ]
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PT wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
Why is nobody selling these "milled" cassettes? I am sure bunch of people would buy them to save their 10 speed wheels.


Because, while such modified cassettes may work with some true disc wheels (but not covered ones like those by hed or flo), they won't work with many spoked wheels. The issue is not the RD and the spoke clearance when shifting to the biggest cog. The bigger problem is that when the back of an 11-speed cassette is milled by ~1.5mm, the clearance between the back of the cassette cogs/cassette spider and the hub body/hub flanges becomes extremely tight on many wheels. Sometimes the clearance is zero or is a negative number. From measurements that I have taken, milling the back of a cassette won't safely work on a 2006-2008 zipp 808 wheelset for these reasons. So I did this instead, simple and keeps everything future-compatible too.

Greg @ dsw



.


And since I am idiot, just glued some tubulars on new Taiwan wheels to find out later the hub is 10 speed! Planning to do the minus cog for now, hopefyully can find a campy hub.


I continue to look at how to use my older zipp disc with a new 11 speed, for minimal costs.

Looks like the campy hub could work but first there is the cost for the hub and then the 11/32 cassette. And once this is done, that is all I could use it with.

But if I use your trick of removing a cog, first I get the 11/32 cassette as a shimano decent priced part. I can just remove, (looking for my tool now), the 10 speed 11/32 I have on it now,
and just put on the modified 11/32 11 speed. really no extra cost since I can modifiy this back to 11 speed just putting the cog in. And if I want to use the zipp to race on my 10 speed bike,
I can just put the old 11/32 10 speed cassette back on, again now cost.

So yes this means I have to be a little bit of a bike mechanic, but sure seems for cost and compatibility, this might be the ideal way to go.

.


Your solution sounds workable to me. If however, you did go with Campa, the free-hub will accommodate 9-10-11 speed Campa cassettes and you can run Campy 10 with Shimano 10 or Campy 11 with Shimano 11 without drama and so you get plenty of options. You can also just buy a Chorus cassette and not worry about Record/Super Record $$. Zipp free-hubs however, are not cheap - but I'd still think this is the most technically sound and simplest way to go.

One other thing to consider is that 11 speed chains are finer than 10 speed ones - but I have never changed chains myself.

There are several technical articles here on Slowtwitch on this or related topics. This one looks at this from the point of view of the cassette - may be useful.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Cassette_Evolution_4171.html

So you are saying if I put a campy freebhub on I can use all my Shimano 10 or 11 speed cassettes?

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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No, you'll need Campa cassettes. They're not interchangeable due to the spline patterns. What I mean is that a Campa 11 wheel will run with a Shimano 11 drivetrain (ie rear mech), 10 speed should be fine too. Does that make sense ?
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [PT] [ In reply to ]
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PT wrote:
No, you'll need Campa cassettes. They're not interchangeable due to the spline patterns. What I mean is that a Campa 11 wheel will run with a Shimano 11 drivetrain (ie rear mech), 10 speed should be fine too. Does that make sense ?

Okay, by using the word drive train, that makes sense. But then I could no longer use my shamino cassettes on the wheel with a campy hub.

Trying to save some money is a pain. :(

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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mendne wrote:
Here's a picture of the ground down cassette. I'm not sure if this would work for spoked wheels as the rear mech May foul with the spokes. On my disc there is plenty of clearance so no problems...
http://tinypic.com/...?pic=1zlchnt&s=8

Does anyone know where to have a cassette ground? I want to use this on my 10 speed Zipp 900.
I found a Japanese shop (http://www.paxcycle.com/...d=1732841&csid=1) sells modified CS-6800/CS-5800 for about $100, but I'm trying to avoid the hassle of international shipping.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Another option regarding getting your wheel to work. Free and very simple:

http://darkspeedworks.com/blog.htm



.

Mate this is brilliant! I was just about to machine out the back of my cassette
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [jpwiki] [ In reply to ]
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I had the freewheel of my Zipp Super-9 and back of the Ultegra cassette machined for 20 € ($23). Works like a charm.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [jpwiki] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jpwiki wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Another option regarding getting your wheel to work. Free and very simple:

http://darkspeedworks.com/blog-11speed.htm

Mate this is brilliant! I was just about to machine out the back of my cassette.


No worries, glad to help!

Greg @ dsw

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [duduardoman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm borrowing a friends disc which is 10s, i have access to a workshop but this method saves me from ruining one of my cassettes
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [aki] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone know where to have a cassette ground?

Another option is to grind material off your freehub so that the cassette can slide on farther. I've heard of people doing that with a dremel tool. It's a little easier to get right because they are series of fairly small tabs.

In either case you need to establish that you have enough derailleur clearance and space between the cassette and hub body to move it inboard ~2mm. That will still leave an extra .85mm sticking out on the dropout side, but usually there is room for that. If not, then you need to move the cassette a little further inboard.

If you simply can't make enough room, then you need to create more space. Get a C11 axle and spacer kit if possible. This will give you more space between the hub and dropout. The wheel will require redishing, but that is very simple.

Whether you modify the cassette or the freehub, it's good to have thin spacers to adjust the position. 1mm is not thin enough. More like .25mm.

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
Another option is to grind material off your freehub so that the cassette can slide on farther. I've heard of people doing that with a dremel tool. It's a little easier to get right because they are series of fairly small tabs.

This is true.

Unfortunately, there are also plenty of reports on the net of riders who did this mod with, say, a zipp alloy freehub, and shortly thereafter the freehub cracks in that area. Those tiny little tabs take quite a bit of load once the cassette lockring is torqued down. So, removing the necessary material on the freehub makes the reliability of the freehub far more sketchy. But not so with milling an ultegra cassette, as the amount of metal there on the support of the alloy cog carrier is quite substantial. Fyi, but ymmv ...

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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What about this?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Aftermarket-Shimano-11-Speed-Freehub-Conversion-kit-fits-Zipp-188-V6-V7-hub-/171857469297?hash=item280380df71:g:WNEAAOSwECZUoEPS

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Any idea of where to look for someone to mill the back of a cassette?

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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Not specifically, but most any local machine shop could likely do it on a lathe. You have to tell them exactly where and how much material to remove. And you gotta check that when the cassette body will move inward toward your rear spokes, that there will be sufficient clearance between the cogs and cassette spider and your hub/spokes (and that the RD and chain will also clear your spokes safely). My guess is that if you don't have a friend or connection at a machine shop nearby, it likely will not be a cheap job.
But I could be wrong.
Then again, if you don't plunk down more money on an irreversible cassette mod, there is always this option.

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Feb 8, 16 10:43
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I did your original mod when I first got 11-speed shifters. But I was able to convert a DT hub for <$100, so I went that route and now get to use all 11 speeds. The goal is to be able to swap out wheels without having to adjust the derailleur limits.

My thought is that filing off the tabs is a better method of permanently altering a wheel if I want to use multiple cassettes with it, but milling out the back of a cassette is a great band-aid that will not compromise the strength of the freehub body.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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What brand/kind of wheel is it?

If it were me, and I was going to be doing any machining, I would definitely favor modding the cassette vs the freehub for durability reasons.

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
What brand/kind of wheel is it?

If it were me, and I was going to be doing any machining, I would definitely favor modding the cassette vs the freehub for durability reasons.

I have a Zipp 900 disc that I would rather not mess with. But I also have a pair of Dura Ace 7800 wheels that I would be more willing to experiment on.

The problem is that I'm fine running just one cassette on the DA wheels for training, but want the flexibility of different cassettes for the disc. So what I should do is machine the cassette to fit on the DA freehub an make my disc freehub compatible with any 11-speed cassette.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [duvivr6] [ In reply to ]
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I've got a Zipp campy 11 speed hub for sale, PM if you're interested.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry it's in Japanese, but Pax cycle( http://www.paxcycle.com/?pid=77387388 ) sell custom-machined Shimano cassette and specifically says they don't work with 7800 Dura-Ace hubs and wheels.

Another note, I ended up using DSW method in IM Coz last year. I had to use a replacement wheel there, and could only get 10 speed wheel. I took 16T out and adjusted RD and it worked fine. A little trouble was that mine has Di2. When I tried to shift to the largest cog while the adjuster limiting the RD movement, it makes some noise and I had to shift back right away, so I don't think it's a permanent solution with Di2 setup. Still worked fine for the race, and I was glad I knew the method, otherwise I wasn't able to race. Thank you for sharing it!
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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Any idea of where to look for someone to mill the back of a cassette?

I'd sketch what you need done and take it to a local machine shop. They will probably do it for whatever their minimum is. It's a simple job.

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [al-gorithm] [ In reply to ]
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What about this? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Aftermarket-Shimano-11-Speed-Freehub-Conversion-kit-fits-Zipp-188-V6-V7-hub-/171857469297?hash=item280380df71:g:WNEAAOSwECZUoEPS

Sure, if that's the hub you have, $120 for a kit is reasonable.

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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I bought one of those kits for a zipp 10spd 188 hub. works fine. was a little concerned of RD hitting spokes but loads of clearance and easy to do. plus it's cheaper than a campag freehub and cassette.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [kyle h] [ In reply to ]
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So you're saying I can change the freehub on a 2012 Zipp 900 to Campy 11 speed?
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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We've got a local guy here in Fort Worth, TX who does exactly that. Not sure what his website is but facebook is https://www.facebook.com/...oldBicycles/?fref=ts
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [duvivr6] [ In reply to ]
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Hi,
i have been machining 11 speed cassette for awhile now here in Montréal. I modify Shimano and Sram (except red) cassettes. I do the modification with a lathe so the work is very precise and looks great.
I remove just enough material so Sproke clearance has never been a problem on any set of wheels if properly adjusted.
Cassette can be reused on 11 hub with the use of 2 cassette thin shims.
lascoconcept@videotron.ca
Last edited by: Hugo cannondale: Apr 7, 16 5:18
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Hugo cannondale] [ In reply to ]
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How much are you charging? Are they 0.5mm spacers you are using?

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [al-gorithm] [ In reply to ]
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Hi,

always done this local here and i charge 45$ (canadian) when people bring in their cassette.
I'm thinking of selling modified new ones over the net.
actually it's 2 X 1mm shims for 11s hubs. (not 0.5mm)
Last edited by: Hugo cannondale: Apr 7, 16 5:54
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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Did you fix your 10 speed disc to accommodate 11 speed cassette?

Did anyone try out http://www.ebay.ca/...1:g:WNEAAOSwECZUoEPS
on a zipp disc wheel?
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [rjrankin] [ In reply to ]
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FWIW, I swapped out my Shimano freehub for a Campy freehub on my 2011 Zipp 900 a few months ago. Takes about 2 minutes. Of course, you then need to use a Campy 11 speed cassette, but it's working just fine for me. For the record, I'm using a Campy Chorus 12-25 11 speed cassette with KMC 11 speed chain, but everything else is Shimano Ultegra 6800.

I'll also give a nod to DSW's method of simply dropping out a cog on a Shimano 11 speed cassette and running 10 cogs on the Shimano 10 speed freehub, which is what I was doing prior to my Campy conversion. Works perfectly, you just have 10 gears.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [ironacct] [ In reply to ]
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Did you have to use a specific zipp 182 campy hub body? Or did a generic campy hub work?

I ask because I can't find a 182 campy zipp hub anywhere
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Geek_fit] [ In reply to ]
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I used a Zipp 182 Campy hub body. Not what else might work. It was a devil to find.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Geek_fit] [ In reply to ]
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I think for the Zipp wheel you are going to need the Zipp 182 Campy hub. It is slightly different than the Campy hub. I switched to SRAM 11 this year and for my Campy wheels all I did was drop in a Campy 11sp cassette on the same hub. With my Zipp disc I needed to add an additional .25mm spacer in the hub to move the hub body outboard a bit to prevent the cogs from pressing up against the wheel to work. If you find and can install the 182 Campy hub it will work and Zipp has the appropriate spacer. See the technical bulletin in the link below:
http://www.zipp.com/support/maintenance/campy11.php#sm.000owmikd9yxdim10a91vd4p8wsnl


I have used this configuration twice in races and worked perfectly.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Stelvio] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah. The issue is finding a hub. I had one but long story short..it didn't work (broken)

I called zipp and they had 1 that they wanted me to ship to a dealer...for 375 bucks. So I'm not doing that.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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Simplest fix is the new Ultegra sg800 11-34 cassette.It fits on both 10 speed and 11 speed road hubs-ONLY the 11-34 ,no others such as 11-32
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [carbonsport] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a reasonably strong cyclist, but haven't been around the sport that long. My past 3 bikes have all been 11 speed and I've run 10 speed discs on them, however I'm struggling to understand the desperate need for 11 speed. People in my area selling 10 speed wheels, it's like trying to sell dog shit. Very little interest as soon as people find out it's 10 speed and con't be converted. Am I missing something?
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
I'm a reasonably strong cyclist, but haven't been around the sport that long. My past 3 bikes have all been 11 speed and I've run 10 speed discs on them, however I'm struggling to understand the desperate need for 11 speed. People in my area selling 10 speed wheels, it's like trying to sell dog shit. Very little interest as soon as people find out it's 10 speed and con't be converted. Am I missing something?

Its not about having the extra gear, its keeping up with the compatibility of everything that has been sold for the past couple of years and moving forward. Anyone who has bought a new bike has 11 speed components, thus a 10 speed wheel that won't fit an 11 speed cassette is useless without one of the above conversion hacks.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcanuck wrote:
zedzded wrote:
I'm a reasonably strong cyclist, but haven't been around the sport that long. My past 3 bikes have all been 11 speed and I've run 10 speed discs on them, however I'm struggling to understand the desperate need for 11 speed. People in my area selling 10 speed wheels, it's like trying to sell dog shit. Very little interest as soon as people find out it's 10 speed and con't be converted. Am I missing something?


Its not about having the extra gear, its keeping up with the compatibility of everything that has been sold for the past couple of years and moving forward. Anyone who has bought a new bike has 11 speed components, thus a 10 speed wheel that won't fit an 11 speed cassette is useless without one of the above conversion hacks.

Well, depends on how much that "compatibility" is worth to you. I'm using Dark Speedwork's hack of removing one cog and it works fine. It's not worth it for me to sell my 10 speed rear Zipp wheel at a big loss in order to save less than a minute when I install it for a race to adjust the limit screw to lock out the last click, given I keep a dedicated freewheel on that wheel. It's quick, no big deal. I get the same range of usable gears with this setup in the big chainring with an 11-25 as I would with an 11 speed 11-28, and for most races that's what I care most about. For the occasional race where the lowest gear is more important, I just suck it up, put on a bigger cassette and accept I am losing a middle cog, not worth it to me to spend a lot of money for those rare races.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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tttiltheend wrote:
SBRcanuck wrote:
zedzded wrote:
I'm a reasonably strong cyclist, but haven't been around the sport that long. My past 3 bikes have all been 11 speed and I've run 10 speed discs on them, however I'm struggling to understand the desperate need for 11 speed. People in my area selling 10 speed wheels, it's like trying to sell dog shit. Very little interest as soon as people find out it's 10 speed and con't be converted. Am I missing something?


Its not about having the extra gear, its keeping up with the compatibility of everything that has been sold for the past couple of years and moving forward. Anyone who has bought a new bike has 11 speed components, thus a 10 speed wheel that won't fit an 11 speed cassette is useless without one of the above conversion hacks.


Well, depends on how much that "compatibility" is worth to you. I'm using Dark Speedwork's hack of removing one cog and it works fine. It's not worth it for me to sell my 10 speed rear Zipp wheel at a big loss in order to save less than a minute when I install it for a race to adjust the limit screw to lock out the last click, given I keep a dedicated freewheel on that wheel. It's quick, no big deal. I get the same range of usable gears with this setup in the big chainring with an 11-25 as I would with an 11 speed 11-28, and for most races that's what I care most about. For the occasional race where the lowest gear is more important, I just suck it up, put on a bigger cassette and accept I am losing a middle cog, not worth it to me to spend a lot of money for those rare races.

And that's great that approach works for you, but lets get real...
Slowtwitch represents a tiny portion of the triathlete population. How many triathletes have heard of the dark speed works method??? And even if we just look at slowtwitchers, how many actually work on their own bikes, and how many of those folks have read the threads about this workaround, and how many of -those- actually want to do it?

I shit you not, most triathletes I know likely do not even have a clue as to whether their bikes are 10 speed or 11, and have no idea how to do the most basic adjustments on their bikes, literally. Brakes pads need to be adjusted, saddle height? saddle tilt? index shifting adjustment? etc all those things are trips to the LBS for most these folks. They ain't gonna be doing a dark speed works custom!! :)
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Stelvio] [ In reply to ]
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I shaved 1.8mm off the rear of the 11 spd cogs to fit my 10spd wheelsets.

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
I'm a reasonably strong cyclist, but haven't been around the sport that long. My past 3 bikes have all been 11 speed and I've run 10 speed discs on them, however I'm struggling to understand the desperate need for 11 speed. People in my area selling 10 speed wheels, it's like trying to sell dog shit. Very little interest as soon as people find out it's 10 speed and con't be converted. Am I missing something?

I just switched to 11sp on my tri-bike and just bought a Lasko modified 11-28 Ultegra cassette for my 10sp HED Stinger disc. Works perfectly no issues at all, I highly recommend. Easy modification to do if you have access to a machine shop.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [campled] [ In reply to ]
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I recently had this done to an 11 speed cassette to fit on a 2006 Zipp 182 10 speed hub.

It worked perfectly with no derailleur adjustments.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mlyonsdc] [ In reply to ]
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mlyonsdc wrote:
zedzded wrote:
I'm a reasonably strong cyclist, but haven't been around the sport that long. My past 3 bikes have all been 11 speed and I've run 10 speed discs on them, however I'm struggling to understand the desperate need for 11 speed. People in my area selling 10 speed wheels, it's like trying to sell dog shit. Very little interest as soon as people find out it's 10 speed and con't be converted. Am I missing something?


I just switched to 11sp on my tri-bike and just bought a Lasko modified 11-28 Ultegra cassette for my 10sp HED Stinger disc. Works perfectly no issues at all, I highly recommend. Easy modification to do if you have access to a machine shop.

Yeah I've got a couple of options with my Zipp disc and PX 90mm, but am happy to keep them 10 speed. I don't see the need for 11 speed.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
I don't see the need for 11 speed.

Yeah I didn't either until I got an E-tap, no looking back now!
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mlyonsdc] [ In reply to ]
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mlyonsdc wrote:
zedzded wrote:
I'm a reasonably strong cyclist, but haven't been around the sport that long. My past 3 bikes have all been 11 speed and I've run 10 speed discs on them, however I'm struggling to understand the desperate need for 11 speed. People in my area selling 10 speed wheels, it's like trying to sell dog shit. Very little interest as soon as people find out it's 10 speed and con't be converted. Am I missing something?


I just switched to 11sp on my tri-bike and just bought a Lasko modified 11-28 Ultegra cassette for my 10sp HED Stinger disc. Works perfectly no issues at all, I highly recommend. Easy modification to do if you have access to a machine shop.
Lasko sent me 2x modified cassettes a couple months ago. They both work fine on my 90's Zipp that probably was 8spd. I'll got a pair of flat-lander cassettes, so I'll be buying a couple more cassettes from Lasko in the coming year in order to better accommodate out-of-region hilly events.

"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
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