They must have just posted. Race is Sept. 28th, registration is Sept. 4th.

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http://www.fuelforendurance.com

woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that is a PERFECT time of year to race in Chattanooga. Water temps could very well be wetsuit legal, low humidity, comfortable temps. PERFECT. This could become the new DESTINATION race in the IM circuit.

Here's an interesting detail: the announcement of 50 age group slots for 2015 Kona confirms that there won't be a new age group points system in place before 2015. I'm rather pleased about that: hoping to qualify under the current system before it goes away.

This is sweet! Love Chattanooga!

I have to admit I am pretty excited about have a full so close to home.

Sign me up!

Fantastic news!!

This can always change.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

This is exciting news. I would rather have seen it go to Asheville, but it sounds like Chattanooga will be a great venue. I'm just glad they didn't go with another flat, boring coastal race.

It will be interesting to see what this does to Louisville registration, considering they're a week apart & (relatively) in the same part of the country. I can't imagine it will help Louisville's sales.

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Iron Distance Race Selector

The bike course only has 2100 feet of climbing. Over 112 miles, that's basically nothing.

They are a month apart not a week apart.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Very intriguing!

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Head Coach Grn Mchn Multisports Coaching, LLC
http://www.grnmchnmultisports.com

Ya, they'll prob have the bike course go up and down Lookout, Signal, and Raccoon Mountains plus some super steep hills in Chattanooga, so it definitely will NOT be flat. They could easily have 5000 to 10,000 ft in elevation change if they wanted to.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I predict that Lou will either switch to the Spring or turn into a 70.3 that is 5-6 weeks before IMChatt.

You should click the link at the bottom of the press release and go read the course descriptions........

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I think it's kind of neat that the bike is mostly in Georgia - an Ironman that covers two states!

Man, now I gotta figure out if I can recover from IM Boulder in time to do this...

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

not true. Take a look at this: "The bike course takes riders 11 miles south of town before beginning two 45-mile loops in north Georgia. Athletes can expect incredible views as they parallel Lookout Mountain on this rolling course with great road surfaces. As athletes near the end of the loop, they will get the opportunity to ride through historic Chickamauga. The 112-mile course has approximately 2,100 feet of climbing."

Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/...e.aspx#ixzz2c33xirzA

The difference between Asheville to Louisville and Chattanooga to Louisville is only about 50 miles apart. Look on a map!

No they just picked a flat boring race with a few hills in the surrounding area. I'll stick with IM Florida, at least you have the beach.

It's 2 loops though...I'd prefer a one looper, even if they had to add a few climbs.

Well now Setup would really have to pick up Asheville and run an IM distance there, and all that before Sept 4, otherwise I can see this one as my first WTC IM.

I don't like the course, but the proximity makes it a no-brainer.

Setup, PLEASE pick up Asheville, you'll have at least one man there! Make it the Embrunman of the East coast!

I'm already in for Boulder and will be in for Chattanooga as well. Can't miss a race in the city where I love. A little over a month to recover, we should be fine.

Point-to-point downstream swim. Sucks for the fast swimmers. Sounds like a super fast course. Kind of a bummer that the bike doesn't have more in it given the hills in the area.

Might also be a good spot for people to KQ considering I doubt many of the faster AGers will be doing both this and Kona.

I think i'm in... I officially dub this race IMchoochoo

What is the new system going to be?

x 2

I fully support this movement!

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Head Coach Grn Mchn Multisports Coaching, LLC
http://www.grnmchnmultisports.com

I'm stoked. I recently moved away from Chattanooga, but I def consider it to be "home". Couldn't think of a better location, based on the course description, the bike course sounds like it may parallel a lot of the Tour De Cure course if anyone is familiar. Rolling hills, scenic views, good roads, and awesome people. Can't ask for much more.

I would disagree, considering you would have over a year to prepare for Kona

Yea and they claimed Louisville only had 2800, but it felt like a hell of a lot more.

Yep, doing the math, it actually ends up being exactly 8 weeks. Not bad at all! Thinking, thinking, thinking...

The cool thing about this, at least from my perspective, is that I didn't know anything about Chattanooga until these rumors started swirling around. It brought Chattanooga to my attention, and now I want to check it out.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

That is quite cool. Too bad I dont race that distance anymore.

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Disco
South Bend, IN

Habitual Line Stepper..

Point-to-point swim definitely hurts the fishes.

Wondering when signup will open?

Sept 4, 2013.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

A guestimate as to how much difference this will make for a non-fish swimming in the 1:15 region? This may be a very nice selling point to catch the plane for Chattanooga in 2014.

I think he was pointing to the fact that, for the first year at least, the KQ'ers wont do this race and Kona back to back.

If they move IMLOU to the spring...tie it into the Derby Festival.....now that would be a party!

Very cool, enjoy all my trips to Chattanooga. 2 Loop bike course is kinda odd to me though

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

No, we've got IMMOO, IMLOU, so this has to be IMCHOO

Congrats to them (even though we lost). It is a great venue and will be a great race!

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

I've done Louisville twice and the elevation is in the mid 4000's. I'm pretty sure the Course profile map only counts the elevation gain per loop.

I know when I was getting ready for CDA this year I realized just before the race that the elevation gain was per lap not total. Its possible it might be 4200 for the course which would be comparable to Louisville. Lots of rollers.

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https://www.strava.com/athletes/773280
http://imroycer81.blogspot.com/
teamemj.com
everymanjack.com

Yea, I figured that out now.
I'm an idiot.

Sounds like what they call a "lollipop" course. Another similarity to IM Louisville. Go out from downtown, do 2 loops and take the same route back into town.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Setup owns Savageman as of 2014. So they already have the Embrunman of the East Coast.

Holy shit. Now I feel like a complete idiot. That makes total sense.

When did this happen? I hope you guys are able to keep the culture of the race the same.

Was part of the deal that they could not change anything about it?

Sure are a lot of Ironman's out there these days. I guess that's a good thing?

Nothing against this race, great for people in the region. I don't see myself flying in for it for any reason though.

No Embrunman is a full distance, so Savageman is not it, regradless of the elevation that is packed in a shorter distance.

And that's not a knock on your race (did you sell it to Setup or? Hopefully it was not a forced decision), as you know I am registered for it this year. But I wanted a hilly course as a first WTC IM as I think it is an advantage for me. I would still pass on this new IM if I know Asheville would put on a full regardless.

You should do them all at least once.......

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Seven years of SavageMan and a labor of love becomes more labor and less love. So, Setup will make great stewards for the race long-term. But, let's not derail this thread; we can start another about SavageMan / Setup. This is about the ChooChoo. And, with a bike course of 2100' there are sure to be a lot of trains on the bike, so all hop aboard the Chatanooga Choo Choo!

Exactly why part of me does not want to do this race, but maybe the rolling start will temper that. But what are the alternatives?. Already done B2B, so not this one. Living around Charlotte, this is the closest one. Short of climbing the mountains you can at least look at them.

Ah, I see now...sorry, I jumped the gun and "ass-u-me-d' too much:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Decisions, decisions, decisions...

I have IMCdA on June 29th and IMMT on Aug 17th on the docket for 2014. Seven weeks between those two. IMChatt would be six weeks after IMMT. Hmmmm....

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Sorry, should have clicked on the link. Actually, I used to live in Chat-town and used to ride down through Chickamauga quite often, and it is rolling hills mostly. Ran my first 5K at Chickamauga Battlefield, a few months before my first tri in Chat-town also.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

It's a matter of perspective, I guess. Living in Texas, 300 miles isn't all that far.

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Iron Distance Race Selector

Yep, sorry, I was looking at the registration open date.

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Iron Distance Race Selector

If WTC lists it at officially 2100 feet it likely has 6000-10000 feet of climbing.

Maurice

THIS would be a great move.

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John Behme
Charlotte, NC

Congrats to Chattanooga! Isn't August 70.3 the same weekend?

I would also like to see SetUp do an IM or HIM in Asheville. The bike course does NOT have to have a lot of climbing. Simply follow 19/23 west to Maggie Valley. That valley is flat. Do the swim in a lake other that Lake Lure (stupid choice to begin with). Asheville did a horrible job in their attempt.

I think a lot of folks will be surprised by how nice the Chatty downtown is. Great place to walk around, lots of things to explore for kids and family's during the day. Lots of places to explore right outside the city for a few days, I think its a great place to visit.

Should be awesome weather at that time. Dang, and only 70 minutes down I-24 from my house.

Here's my best guess of a route based on their description. I'm sure some of the locals can chime in on road choices. I've only driven in the area. One loop has an elevation gain of 1,400. So you're looking at roughly 2,700 to 2,800 adding another lap and taking it back into town.

EDITED: Pulled my map. Actually map has been posted by race director in post 101. But I was pretty close.

Does anyone know the elevation totals for IMLP, IMMOO and IMLOU?

Trispoke wrote:

read the course description. it will be a looped swim. not p2p

Am I missing something?



Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/...e.aspx#ixzz2c3eD3LYE

It's a river - definitely a P2P.

What about IM Noogie?

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

2nd that. Popular route for cyclist through St. Elmo, Flinstone, etc. Rolling hills and pretty fast.

The point-to-point swim in the Tennessee River will start 2.4 miles upstream of transition.

Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/...e.aspx#ixzz2c3fTnN7T

I just did. Maybe you should read it again....

What swim course description are you reading? It clearly says 2.4 point to point.

I could see doing this instead of IMFL2014, maybe.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

I've heard some reports that the route might go near Raccoon Mountain which is part of the 3 State 3 Mountain Challenge. If so, the course will run along the Tennessee River. It will be more challenging if that is the route.

Also the algorithm for MapMyRide it terrible in my opinion for calculating accents. Count on doubling the actual elevation climb totals.

.... IMCDA is right around 5000 ft climbing (just under) total ... not for one loop ... IM LOU is under 3000 ... IM website elevations have chronically been understated by 15%;ish (give or take a little) because of map my ride ... if they are claiming 2100 at IM Choo Choo it will likely be 2500-2800 ... that's nothing

Downriver swim ... relatively flat course ... flat run =

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Is Waffle House the title sponsor? And if so, will we see waffle aid stations?

Waffle House is based in Atlanta area. I guess it would be Krystal then.

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"Some folks plan for the optimum race, others like to get upset when others out plan them. "

Asked in the other thread, which is likely to die, since this has "official" in the title.....

what happens to Kona slot allocations - if every new race gets 50, are they expanding the field or cannibalizing other races?

The website course description describes it as a P2P while the press release on IM.com (currently) describes it as a looped course. It also describes the bike course as 2 56 mile loops which is different from the lollipop described on the website so I think they need to make some updates to the press release.

I've ridden the course 3 times and IMLOU is actually closer to 4,500 - 4,700 feet of climbing according to my Garmin.

I think they just mis-typed that a bit. The sentence or two down from the "single looped" wording says, "Athletes can look forward to fast splits on a downstream course."

I thought about this with regards to the Kona slot allocation too. I think it will be a few options in the future:

A. No more 100/75 slot races.

B. All races slowly trim down to 45, then 40, then maybe just AG winners

C. Only certain races have Kona slot allocation (very unlikely)

D. I fear this, but KPR for AG'ers. Given the emergence of more competition slowly rising this would be a great business move. I think this is the most likely option or at least the direction Andrew Messick is trying to go.

Sometimes I feel Kona is destructive to the development of Triathlon.

Interesting and fair enough i'm just going off athlete and personal files i have ... i have 5 race files from last years LOU (4 garmin 500 and 1 SRM that all show under 3000 and the SRM right at 3000) ... Considering IMCDA is just under 5000 (just over with SRM) i struggle to see where imLOU is anywhere near what CDA is

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Oops, Just checked and Krystal was bought and moved to ATL. Guess it will have to be Moonpie or Little Debbie or IcyHot!

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"Some folks plan for the optimum race, others like to get upset when others out plan them. "

Waffle House is based in Atlanta area. I guess it would be Krystal then.

Krystal moved to Atlanta. We are the home of Little Debbies and Moon Pies though. Actually, I half expected Volkswagen to come on as a title sponsor.

Maybe I am screwing the calendar/math up in my head but what about a 2014 race prior to Kona for the 2015 Kona the following year what about those who would Age up doesn't that screw with the whole system?

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Dynamic Athlete ProgrammingVIP Endurance Racing | Like us on Facebook Get Your Training Plan Here

There's really no way to tell in advance of the race because the flow in the TN River is controlled by releases from TVA's upstream dam at Watts Bar. You could have zero current or 3 mph. I'd guess an "average current" might save a 1:15 swimmer 3 to 5 min or so.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Since you've got more data to support it, maybe my Garmin is just trying to make me feel good about myself. ;) I just double checked and my latest file (from 2011) says 4,560'.

Give me a few hours and I will give you the turn by turn for the bike. It's an awesome course and loads of fun to ride! I took some folks out last weekend to ride it any we all had a great time!

The swim will be a point to point. My course description is correct, the press release is wrong.

Brian Myrick

Honestly, I've been doing the Waterfront triathlon ever since they moved the swim to a downriver one and there's only been once or twice that I can remember where the current really helped us along. Most of the time it feels no different than a lake swim, and I think the swim splits support this.I suspect this will be like the IMLOU swim where the appearance is more substantial than the actuality.

Here's what the local paper says about it:

http://www.timesfreepress.com/...ct-host-ironman-est/

Adds a bit more info on the swim and bike course.

I hope you have that list in the right order. D would kinda suck, or at least be at odds with USAT's rankings (not that I care about those, but MORE ranking systems can't be a good thing). C seems highly unlikely. B isn't unfair, but A seems like the best option.

Downstream swim... flat-ish bike... assuming flat-ish run. Your welcome BOP

May just be how the garmin is set up?? ... I believe there is some sort of function that if left on it over calculates climbing ... by alot (I'm not 100 exactly sure how that works)

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

great esp. since i live in nashville!!!!

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Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO

How quickly do people think this race will sell-out? Should I rearrange my schedule to be online at 11:45 on September 4th?

look at louisville sells out or does it.... hint hint

also look at the timing of the year.. i would not think it will very fast

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Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO

August <> September

Average low/high for Chattanooga that day is 58/77. That is nearly identical to IMFL. The timing is, I think, perfect. Before IMFL for those that want the season done earlier than Nov and a good month after IMLOO which should result in much lower humidity. The reason IMLOO doesn't sell out is not the course, it is the heat/humidity associated with August.

Agreed. They all but eliminated the chance of 90+ degree race and for that I am thankful.

I dont have the TBT directions in front of me, but this should help. This is subject to change, but this will get you close!

http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/265712445

Brian Myrick

They could not have picked a better time of year weather wise. A couple of weeks earlier and it would have been nearly identical to Louisville - it should be very similar to IMFL weather, a little chilly in the morning, a little warm in the afternoon. It will be interesting to see if it is wetsuit legal, as I imagine it will be right on the line. There are several open water swims in the river throughout the year with a 10 mile swim the first weekend in October - Swim the Suck - which utilizes Channel rules, no wetsuits. If TVA is generating any water, this could be a very fast swim with a wetsuit.

Looks like historically/statistically it is near perfect weather.


http://weatherspark.com/...nessee-United-States

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"Some folks plan for the optimum race, others like to get upset when others out plan them. "

Problem already exists for fall races such as Florida and Arizona. If you are 44 and qualify as 40-44, then you race Kona as 45-49. Interesting consequence: there are very likely more 45-49 Kona racers than people that qualified 45-49, since more will age up from 40-44 than will "age out" from 45-49.

I think it's another good argument for reducing the number of age groups: spread of every 8 or even 10 years rather than 5. Something like <24, 25-39, 40-47, 48-56, 57-65, 66 and up. That would help resolve the issue of dis-proportionate assignment of KQ spots with the 1 per age group minimum system and would cut down on ridiculously long awards ceremonies.

That part of the USA is so pretty. Chattanooga is a really cool town, too. Wow! Good on them. :)

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

You could be right, my comment was more along the lines of every WTC course elevation/elevation profile is usually way, way off....

So if they are saying 2100 feet train for ten thousand ;-)

Maurice

My hope was for Asheville. I wasn't too excited about Chattanooga. Since the announcement came, I find myself stoked about this race. I have competed in the Waterfront Tri several times and loved it. I plan on being there - Chattanooga is a beautiful city with a lot of things the family can do. I look for this race to become the Lake Placid of the south, selling out very quickly after the first year. I had intentions of doing Louisville again next year, and maybe I will try to swing both - but Chattanooga is a definite for me.

I can definitively say that everyone at QR is excited for the race to set up shop in our hometown. You can count on us being involved and having some fun race week.

As for me and several other coworkers, we hope to be on the starting line with a bunch of you.

Mac

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Mac McEneaney

Whistler will certainly lose 50 slots in year 2. The 100 they got is almost certainly a onetime good deal in year 1 to stick it to Challenge Pentincton. However, I agree with you that the KPR for age groups is the likely endstate. It makes good business sense and puts pros and age groupers under the same structure. We shall see.

Let me get this right. 2 of the most mountainous areas in the country... Appalacians and Rocky Mountains, have 2 of the flatest IM courses on the circuit (Boulder & now Chantanooga). Oookaaay.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Good for WTC and bad for AGers...

I really hate that idea. In an IM year, I'm probably racing one 70.3 and the IM itself (in addition to shorter distance races). You'd probably have to race a minimum of 3-4 races to qualify (both 70.3 and 140.6).

Ain't nobody got time for that...

Or money...travel and entry fees would easily exceed $5k...triple that if the family is along. Not to mention vacation (remember, can't check in for an IM on the day before....at least 70.3 you can.) As much as I like the concept, I don't think it works when it's WTC and not an independent governing body that's organizing the championship. WTC has built an empire on one race: Kona. The KPR system would just reinforce that (albeit for the relatively small number of people that would bother to take the financial risk of chasing KPR points just to miss qualifying by a few points after investing $K's.)

You also have much more of a chance for a daylight finish than at IMFL. Time change in 2014 will happen Nov 2, 2014. This will apply to anyone in the 12-ish range and faster, though, I presume.

Me too!!!

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Where do you swim?

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

This was my initial reaction too! I figured there would be a course with over 6000 feet of climbing in the vein of Lake Placid or Mont Tremblant. Bummer...and I don't think that elevation scares off triathletes. For some reason some folks at WTC are thinking that way due to St. George, but St. George was just in a bad time of year and not close to enough population that could drive there. LP and Tremblant are in a good time of year for many to train for, and many can drive over. It seems that Chatanooga is also in a good time of year and many can drive, thus making a hard course should be a non issue. I can see not making courses 10,000 ft, but 4000-6500 seems to keep the races fair in terms of them not being draft fests.

Page 2? Really!?!?!?!

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

A KPR system for age groupers would suck for most because it would reward those who allocate their money and vacation time to a large number of WTC races per year (I'm not saying you have to be rich to race WTC event, you can get by driving old shitty cars and spending car payments on racing....). Or reward those in geographies where they can quicly drive to many and not have to fly...I can drive to 5 WTC races in 3 hours radius (Tremblant 140.6 and 70.3, IMLP, Muskoka 70.3, Syracuse), and 2 more if I extend out to 7 hours (Timberman, Pocono).

Dev,
Pocono 70.3 was shitcanned in 2012. :-)

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

So when does everyone predict this to sell out? I'm planning to register as soon as this one goes on sale. I was originally going to do CDA next year until I heard about the price gouging on the hotels.

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"Sweep the leg...Do you have a problem with that?" - John Kreese

Pocono is now a Rev 3, Dev. But you have a valid point otherwise.

The problem with including the mountains in and near Chattanooga is that there have limited access roads to the top and they all have substantial amounts of pricey homes and businesses. The closest, Lookout Mountain, is a major tourist attraction already with Rock City and Ruby Falls. I can imagine those businesses would not be happy about limiting traffic to their establishments, nor would the visiting non-Ironman tourists. Closing even one of the roads would create a huge headache for the locals and likely engender a fair bit of hostility, if not outright opposition, towards the race.

I am not advocating for an age group KPR system, but I think it makes good sense for WTC, not for us. Further, I would bet in the 50+ age groupers it would not seriously alter the types of people who already go. I am in the M55-59 but know a good number of guys who no longer work and have the resources to race multiple halves and fulls. Those guys have the time to train hard, get more rest and race for slots all over the world. The only change in the upper age groups might be to reward consistent FOP performances rather than one top performance.

Yeah, I was very disappointed. I was not really planning on doing any more IMs, but thought that one in the N. GA mountains that I love to train in would be a great adventure! And I love Chattanooga! But that bike course is really disappointing. I can't seem to get motivated to sign up for it. They could have included one good climb on the loop and it would have been epic!

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"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

I agree. I don't own a bike box and probably won't get one. So for me, it's Wisconsin, Louisville, and now I suppose Chantanooga or a unbranded ironman unless we make a long trip out of it. Chantanooga wouldn't be bad for my first, sicne it's everyoen elses "first" in that location, so in terms of logistics it's a more equal playing field. Although Boulder and Texas are almost as close and SE TN from Eastern Iowa.

I think hillier course will reduce drafting and level the playing field. It's so sad that you have to make people not cheat.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Interestingly, the date selected (September 28, 2014) will be the same as that for the IM August 70.3 unless they move the Augusta race from the last weekend in September. I am curious to see if there will be an effect on that race since they are only about 3 hours apart, closer than Chattanooga is to Louisville.

How do you know what the bike course is? I checked the website and don't see any course maps.

Look at the first post on page 5 of this thread. Brian (the IM Raleigh 70.3 RD) posted a map that is pretty close to what the IM Chat bike course will be.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Some people here think rollers don't count as elevation gain because you should be able to keep momentum up and over them. WTF-ever. I'm tall, lanky, not a great climber and I'll take sustained climbs over rollers every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I'm sure there will be an Atlanta contingency that is up there tomorrow and every weekend from now until next year. Don't forget your rock climbing shoes! Some of the best rock in the country.

I'm in the boat of the guys who can not only race many times per year due to driving distance to WTC races, but can also fly to many because that's what I choose to spend my cash on. And it is kind of stupid, because earlier this week for the first time ever I checked the WTC standings (I was actually going there to look at the pro KPR standings and our of curiousity started browsing age grouper) and I was 11th worldwide in 45-49....WTF....I'm a 10:47 tourist at IMLP...but I raced Oceanside, Tremblant 70.3 St. Croix and IMLP already this year....you can quickly see how the guys with moderate results racing a lot of their races move up their "standings". Just in my home town of Ottawa alone there are over 10-15 guys in 45-49 who are faster than me on any given day. So as it stands the system is favouring those on the "Petr Vanbrousek" age grouper plan....guys who race a lot and get moderate results vs guys who race really fast but not often. To make it worse, the age group points are based on percent of winner. So I can be at 95% of the winner in 2 races yet cumulatively 45 minutes behind the 2 guys over 2 races, yet in the standings, I will be waaaaaay ahead of either guy who races half as much. How does this send the best athletes to Kona? Don't get me wrong, it is highly favourable for guys in my boat, but just because it is good for guys who race at a moderate speed a lot, does not make it right for an age group Kona qual methodology.

I much prefer the age group "one shot method". Show up to the race, and go as fast as you can. Beat your peers and you're in for the show (a true competition), or finish high enough and hope someone declines and you get in on the rolldown.

If they are going to have a KPR method for age groupers, the points should not be based on a percent of winner, but rather allocate points by your age group placement per race, and perhaps give double points for an Ironman vs half IM. At least that is a better method than straight time percentage.

Sorry for the hijack on the Chatanooga thread. Good to see it will have 50 slots per the "current qual system".

Dev

Do not know on sell out but word of advice. Last I knew IM has 5 night min stays when coming into town and the hotels take that oppertunity to raise prices. Simple business. Well when we signed up for CDA first year I immediatly reserved a room before the hotels raised prices. Being the first year they were not prepared on their pricing so we got rooms very cheap. 2nd year of CDA we were not so lucky. If you sign up, right after reserve and just do not mention why coming to town.

Thanks. It looks like it is pretty flat, which is a little disappointing, but looking at Google Streetview the roads look like they're in great condition.

Is anyone else disappointed? As someone who lives in Hampton Roads, VA I was hoping for something closer to the Atlantic, since there's such a huge gap on the East Coast.

The roads are in great shape! Should be fun!

Brian Myrick
RD IRONMAN Chattanooga

What do you mean? You were wanting an ocean swim? Or you just wanted closer to the area? Chat is only a 10hr drive. Granted, Myrtle and Ashville are closer but anything within ~10hrs is good enough for me if I'll be making it a 4-6 day trip.

I am, specifically if the bike course is "flatter" as some have mentioned. At least Myrtle Beach or Hilton Head you know the bike course is flat, but you get to go to the beach after. Now I have never been to Chatt....but it is Chatt. I would be just as disappointed if they chose Asheville and had a flat bike course (though the logistics got them I think).

For a WTC'er, I guess if I was going to drive 5+ hours from Charlotte to Chatt, I would probably drive 7+ and go do Lou, which I know is a solid course and just an all around great race. Plus, 2-4 less weeks of training in the summer heat here would be nice.

Congrats to Chatt though. Great grab for them, but I just can't get excited.

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John Behme
Charlotte, NC

The room rates in Chattanooga are already pretty steep in my opinion. When we go up and do the Waterfront Tri, we spend a lot more than we prefer. You can find something further out pretty cheaply though.
The plus is that hopefully they won't be doing the minimum nights stay like many of the venues have gone to. CDA cleaned my clock a few years ago. Placid does the same.

Agree with you, Dev.

While I have the financial resources to qualify via this method, I do not have the time. My kids are young, my wife is young ;), I work...my time is limited. I can think of a ton of other things that I'd rather go do and see than travel around the country to race and chase points.

I like the idea of showing up and knowing that I have a chance to race and win a KQ slot. Sure, I may not get it, but at least I have the chance to do so then and there...Getting beat out by someone that possibly raced 1 or 2 hours slower than me b/c they were able to feed more $$ to WTC does not sit well with me. I'd love to get to Kona, but I won't chase points throughout the year...I'm not a pro. I do this for fun and that makes it sound more like a job...

x2 in hoping for an Asheville race.

Nothing against Chattanooga (great area, great city), but a downstream-only swim and a bike course which kind of skirts/avoids what is so great about the area makes this race feel watered down and wussified vs. what it could be. I would rather have a hilly course which captures what the area is really like and slower times than a drag race flat course.

Of course there were no guarantees the Asheville venue would have been much different.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
//Well now Setup would really have to pick up Asheville and run an IM distance there, and all that before Sept 4, otherwise I can see this one as my first WTC IM.

I don't like the course, but the proximity makes it a no-brainer.

Setup, PLEASE pick up Asheville, you'll have at least one man there! Make it the Embrunman of the East coast! //

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Tad

It took awhile, but I finally discovered that its not the destination that's important, but rather the journey.

That's really good advice Kenney, thank you. I just got a room for 4 nights at the Chattanoogan, which I assume is going to be the sponsor hotel for the race. It was the only hotel in the area I called that would book this early, and the lady told me she had been taking calls for those dates all morning.

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"Sweep the leg...Do you have a problem with that?" - John Kreese

What kind of rate?

Maybe not IF it was WTC run. But if Setup picks it up, and with the recently acquired Savageman, that would give them a nice 1-2 punch in their catalog. Even better make it a serie!

That's my fantasy though, I have no idea if this would be financially viable. Probably not. But there's got to be some kind of market in the US since there is no more St George or Silverman.

I just wanted a closer race. Asheville is only 6.5 hours away, where as Chattanooga is 9.5. Currently anyone on the east coast has to make an enormous commute to any of the races, and having the race at Chattanooga seems like such a waste when Louisville is so close.

$118 for Thursday and Sunday, $125 for Friday and Saturday. Then I prepaid for breakfast buffet ($10/person) on Firday and Saturday.

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"Sweep the leg...Do you have a problem with that?" - John Kreese

If you end up saving money you can buy me a coffee. I have swore off WTC events years ago but will be breaking my pledge. I have a very good friend who has just moved there and my wife and I will make this the goal race to go visit and stay with. I have done 6IM and this will probably be my last. ...See you there. I am mop and will be 54 so you have nothing to worry about :o) though I have swam 60 flat before looks like I will break that..................................Cheers

Yeah CDA got ridiculous. I live in Montana and it was cheaper to plan in advance and go do Vineman than to drive across the state and do CDA... Personally I hate WTC, and the size but because of good friend i am breaking my vow. All i have to pay is the plane ticket

Awesome advice Kenney! I got three nights with a king for 122 a night. Thanks. I live in ATL and to think I can drive 1.5 hours and be up there is awesome. Cant wait to sign up.

see my post above......you second to owe me coffee, this time before a practice swim.

Thanks for the heads up on the room....went online and got the same deal. 3 nights at $122/night!

Same here....3 nights/$122 night plus breakfast.

I can guran-damn-t you this will be the last year you get that rate!!!!

I guran-damn-t you that you are right!
I spent more on the rates last year doing the Waterfront Tri.

so i take good price?

how far is the transition area from the Chatanoogan hotel? Looks like the finish is going to be about a mile away or so?

How long till you think they catch on? I would print the reservation with the 2014 date so they later do not say you meant 2013..................I work in a faith based ministry witout pay, I can only afford to do becasue of my friend in Chat.......I am going to keep a copy of all you guys names getting rooms and forget coffee, you all pitchin in for dinner ;O)

Both are about a mile, assuming the transition area is in same place as waterfront tri.

Springhill Suites by Marriott is the one I am looking at. Right on the water, and at the end of the park where transitions would probably be, or Courtyard, Residence Inn and Hilton Garden Inn are 1-3 blocks from finish.

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"Some folks plan for the optimum race, others like to get upset when others out plan them. "

I just booked the Chatanoogan as well. I did read in the terms and conditions sections that 'rates are subject to change'. So I'm assuming they could retroactively charge a higher rate.

didn,t happen to me in cda in 2003. Hopefully not to you. They do not know who is coming in for a race so its a bad idea to do. Once they have a history of blocked rooms for an event then corporate steps in with scheduling the following year

I have stayed at Hilton and Doubletree - both are close to trans. and finish. They aren't taking reservations at the moment online. Might be worth calling.

I just called doubletree and they will not start accepting reservations for September 26th, 2014 until October 3rd, 2013.
My plans are to hold onto the Chattanoogan reservations until the other hotels open up booking, and if I can get something near the water at an equal price, then I will move there. Reservations can be cancelled without penalty up to within 24 hours.

Yeah. I am a big Marriott fan and the Residence Inn is booking 50 weeks before the date. Wondering how others are booking early, but would rathe be downtown for the family. I gave up 140.6 after my son was born but this will be a fun race. So much to do in Chattanooga and my wife will be happy. Don't really care about the swim down stream or lack of hills on the bike, 140.6 miles is still long and plenty of people blow up no matter what the course profile is. Gonna be fun regardless.

I must be spending too much time on Facebook, I was looking for the 'like' button on your post :)

This has come up before on this thread...Louisville is nearly the same distance from Asheville as it is from Chattanooga (350 miles vs. 300 miles). If you prefer Asheville to Chattanooga, good on you, but proximity of one vs. the other to Louisville isn't a valid reason for that preference.

Thanks. I read all these posts and laugh at all the positions people take. In the end find the race that works for you and sign up regardless of brand. For me it is about family being happy on race day and having something to do for 11 hours. This is a great venue for that. Kids museum will burn 2-3 hours on the bike. Pool at the hotel is awesome for another hour. IMAX and aquarium does the trick for portion of the run. Plus good food and people in Chattanooga are awesome. Travelled there a few times and we had a blast. From Atlanta only 1.5 hours and zero travel costs! See you there!

coffee? Heck at these rates I will buy you breakfast AND coffee. thanks again

But if you're coming from the east coast Asheville is much closer. From my perspective, an Asheville race would attract a lot more east coasters, thereby not negatively affecting the Louisville participation as much.

I agree that Asheville is closer to the coast than Chattanooga, and I definitely wanted the race in my back yard, but I think as mentioned earlier, the sheer logistics of trying to move 2.5-3K athletes from downtown to Lake Lure and start a race like that at 7:00, and the associated loss of the 'race village' feel with that separation actually makes Chattanooga a better venue. It looks like they will still have to transport people several miles up the river, but that is much simpler on a large 4 lane road then 30 miles on mountain roads. It is close enough that family/spectators can walk a lot of the distance to the swim start easily right along the bank of the river.

Also, people keep calling this a flat bike course. I know they have left out the big climbs in the area, but from my experience visiting Chattanooga, there is really nothing flat around there. It might not be straight climbs, but it certainly is not IMFL or B2B.

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"Some folks plan for the optimum race, others like to get upset when others out plan them. "

B2B is like that and I didn't feel that way, the party downtown and at the battleship was pretty nice.

Yeah, but Battleship is a few miles across town. I think people underestimate that Lake Lure to Asheville is around 30miles on a 2 lane road curvy and hilly enough to have switchbacks. 3K people on buses to the start or all the family members driving back seems like a mess to me and not equivalent to B2B, Bone Island, or the 2 miles upstream in Chattanooga.

https://maps.google.com/...&mra=ls&z=12

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"Some folks plan for the optimum race, others like to get upset when others out plan them. "

All you yahoos just booked out the damn weekned!

The city buses do a great job of bussing athletes up-river for the waterfront tri - I'm sure IM will do the same. Its a continuous and smooth flowing process...they have it nailed down pretty well already.

The Chattanoogan?

ok i am marking this post, if you are still on here next year i will ask for the breakfast ; )

Well if they are in the same location it is a moot point, but the start (as demonstrated by WTC years of sticking with 3000 person mass start) is where the excitement is. Swim finish/ T1 is a milestone in the race, but the start is the start of a 140.6 mile journey. In our society, we tend to put more emphasis on the start and finish than on the intermediate milestones.

Even though they are a few miles apart at Chattanooga, family could possibly be able to see both and some of the swim depending on how fast the athlete swims, how fast the family walks and how many people get the same idea on the riverwalk. No way in Lake Lure/Asheville.

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"Some folks plan for the optimum race, others like to get upset when others out plan them. "

You might have a point if this was a mass start but we all know it won't be. It will be a TT start like Louisville (and the one and only IMNYC).

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Our society still puts more emphasis on the start than the intermediate milestones. Everybody cheers at the first kick in a football game, we have ceremonial first pitches in baseball, we cheer when they drop the start flag at a car race. There is no giant round of applause at the end of the 1st quarter, there are no ceremonial pitches after the 4th inning in baseball, and no one cheers just because the Indy 500 reaches 100 miles.

I agree a time trial start or a wave start is not as exciting as 3000 people going off together, but for family who have watched and put up with the athlete training and prepping for months, the start is the most important part, until they finish the race.

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"Some folks plan for the optimum race, others like to get upset when others out plan them. "

I doubt my wife would want to deal with getting the kids ready for this when I am stressed out or trying to relax and get ready for the next day. I think the local attractions would be easier and more stress free. Sitting in an IMAX theater is probably easier for her than helping prep another race. She already has to deal with 1 big kid getting ready to race, doesn't need small ones too.

Others will probably disagree though.

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"Some folks plan for the optimum race, others like to get upset when others out plan them. "

I just called the Chattanoogan and was told they had just received word from the Visitor's Bureau that they've closed off that weekend but when we register we'll get a 'code' to be able to book the hotel. Not quite sure I understand, nor did the girl I spoke with.

How about a 5K for the spouses and maybe a kids run or something like that on Saturday? My wife would love to be able to come to one of these and be able to participate in something like that. However, getting volunteers or city cooperation may be another story given their commitment over the next couple of days. Maybe a 5K totally on the riverwalk to keep from having to have a lot of volunteers or streets closed?

Wonder if that will retroact back to all of us who already booked that weekend? I can see getting an email soon saying that all reservations previously made have been cancelled.

I would say now is the time to look at VRBO.com and see if anything is available too. The private parties renting these will probably be slower to the party to figure out what is going on.

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"Some folks plan for the optimum race, others like to get upset when others out plan them. "

I expect this to be a great start. We will bus spectators to the start as well and I suspect a lot of folks will walk/ride up the Riverwalk as well. Spectators will then have the opportunity to walk the entire length of the swim right along side their athletes to Ross's Landing where they come out of the water. Our transition will be in the parking lot across Riverfront Parkway. Bike out and run out will both be on the west end of transition and athletes will head West on Riverfront.

The IRONMAN Village/Expo and Registration will all be on the grassy field to the east of transition. The finish line will be a few blocks away at the north end of Broad in front of the Aquarium.

Brian

I am an avid VRBO customer. However, I would not book a VRBO rental 14 months ahead.

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

To further clarify: GRASSY FIELD is where the Waterfront Triathlon's transition is usually setup. FEW BLOCKS AWAY (FINISH LINE) is actually viewable (practically) from the EXPO/Registration area aka GRASSY FIELD. It's very close to walk to. With all this in close proximity, it'll be a real simple area to wander between.

Meaning they blocked off the weekend so they can fleece us. Apparently they caught on a little too quickly for me to get in on the regular rates. Fri-Sat wasn't available online when I checked around 4pm. I'm willing to bet the price at least doubles with the "code" vs what those lucky enough to get in early today are paying.

So will I

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All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

If you don't have to stay downtown, there are quite a few hotel opportunities near Hamilton Place mall on I-75 (at Shallowford Rd), about a 20 min or less drive from the transition. These will not have jacked up prices.

Yeah, lots of restaurants as well. There is a Y off this exit as well but the pool water temp is HOT!!! I thought I had dived into a large hot tub

They did the same thing with Ironman Boulder. Gave you a code to book the hotels in advance, and you couldn't book them through the hotel websites.

Does anyone else think this course could be the new place for the PR? Down current swim, flat bike, flat run, and moderate temps with a full summer to train? The only thing to slow this race down will be that all the pros and top agers will likely skip it to race Kona.

And people wonder why this was the choice instead of Asheville or some other place...........

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Does anyone know how the swim start order is determined? I assume you just line up, but thought I'd ask for clarification.

I guess the only question is: How fast will it sell out?

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Proud Member of Chris McDonald's 2018 Big Sexy Race Team "That which doesn't kill me, will only make me stronger"
Blog-Twitter-Instagram-Race Reports - 2018 Races: IM Florida 70.3, IM Raleigh 70.3, IM 70.3 World Championships - South Africa, IM North Carolina 70.3

Me thinks they quickly realized how shallow their consumer base is. How can one even compare times on different IM courses? Way too many variables.

Nope...there are other questions...like, will anyone sign up for Louisville?

If WTC turned Louisville into a 70.3 it would be the perfect warm-up race for IMCHOO.

That would also be good for the people in the South if they go to the points system. Having done the full at Louisville twice, I would do a 70.3 there.

4 weeks out might be a little close but make that 6 weeks out and I wouldn't argue.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I don't know what would be hotter, Louisville in August or Louisville in July.........

Louisville is now 4 weeks before the Chattanooga race. Moving it 2 weeks earlier (6 weeks from Chattanooga) would still be August. That would make a Louisville 70.3 approx. Aug 15th or thereabouts.........

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Gah, not what I was hoping for.

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kelly dunleavy o'mara
@kellydomara

What if they moved IMLOU to late May? The current US IM calendar is so back loaded. there are only two before July. an earlier IM in Louisville with less heat and humidity may be popular.

How is the water quality of the Tennessee River there. I've only seen it up in Nashville and it didn't look appealing for a swim.

It is the Cumberland River that flows through Nashville, not the Tennessee. Tennessee River stays about 50+ miles west of Nashville. Upstream of Chattanooga is Knoxville and Asheville.

Actually there is a group of open water swimmers (C.O.W.S) that swim almost entirely in the river on a weekly basis, so guessing the water quality is not too bad, but it depends on rainfall etc what gets washed in, but that is true with any open water.

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Tim Anderson
"It's the nature of the internets that you get some dweeb who knows nothing about (insert topic here) pontificates about (topic), believing that his/her opinion is worth the same as opinions from those who actually knows what's going on." --Echappist

How is the water quality of the Tennessee River there. I've only seen it up in Nashville and it didn't look appealing for a swim.


It's not too bad. I've never had a problem with it while doing the Waterfront triathlon and I know the Chattanooga Open Water swimmers hold several meets on the river. I'm sure it's no worse and possibly better than the Ohio.

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like a great town. I'll have to consider it.

HI, Never been to Chattanooga before but I was wondering about that Hamilton place and a couple hotels there.. how difficult will the drive be from there and most importantly parking? Is staying there a decent idea or would be highly advisable to stay downtown?

Thanks

Never been there.. what will the cross street/ intersections of transition and start / finish be? Just so I can get an idea of where to lodge based on looking at a GOOGLE maps..

THanks

Hamilton Place area is fairly nice and about a 15 minute drive from downtown. There are a number of chain hotels - a new Hilton and I believe an Embassy Suites are being built now - as well as a number of popular chain restaurants and big box stores. You have two choices for driving into downtown - I-75/I-24 and Hwy 53/Amicola Hwy, both of which take about the same amount of time. Parking downtown can be tricky if you are not familiar with the area. Street parking is largely metered and there are a number of monitored private lots and decks.

To me, the choice would probably come down to what you are looking for in terms of spending your downtime around the race. If you want to see Chattanooga, stay downtown. There are a number of good local restaurants, bars, museums, movie theater, and great places to generally walk around and enjoy the scenery. Hamilton Place offers conveniences, but is really no different than similar development sites in most large towns around the country centered around a shopping mall. If you are traveling with kids, I would definitely recommend downtown if for nothing else to avoid having to worry about parking. Most of the hotels are very close to transition and should be near the run course.

Personally I would stay downtown. It will feel like you are in the "Olympic Village". Downtown was a crap hole when I moved here nearly 20 years ago. Now I absolutely love it.

Any idea on what they will cap the race at, entrants that is? This will be my first full. I am a Nooga lover, regular on the Rock Creek trail series there, and would like nothing better to cross the finish line in my favorite city in TN for my first full.

If you consider the history of IM Louisville, I think there is enough evidence out there to conclude that WTC will sell approx. 3,000 slots with the assumption that somewhere around 2,500 will actually show up and race.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

What's the last year on the WTC Louisville contract?

2016

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

My guess is near the intersections of Chestnut Street and Riverfront Parkway. The transition area for the Chattanooga Waterfront Triathlon is just west of the Tennessee Aquarium in the open area. They may use the same transition area, if not it can't be that far way.

Close... from what I've read, transition will be the parking lot just to the west of the grass square you're referencing. Expo Tents, etc will be in the grass square.

I would like to ride the bike course, preferably before registration opens! Please let me know if there is a regular group ride in the general area.

There will be a lot of group rides. One of them this Saturday. I suggest you find and "like" the Ironman Chattanooga Facebook page. That's where a lot of the info will be posted.

I dont remember if I posted this or not, but here is the tentative run map. I know a couple of these side streets will probably change but a lot of you are asking for a route before Sept 4 when registration opens. This will be close! We will post any changes on the IRONMAN Chattanooga Facebook page as they happen.

http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/273602111

Brian Myrick-RD

Cool, I had no idea the course was going to incorporate a couple of the bridges. This will be a scenic run, though not as flat as I thought.

Thanks, Brian - what a solid gesture to share the prospective routes here. Looking forward to Sept 4.

It's short :)

And has too many turns

Seriously? 597ft of "climbing" over 26 miles and you thought it was gonna be FLATTER?

I his defense, the Chattanooga Waterfront has about 50ft of climbing (excluding those damn stairs). And with all of the speculation of just running along the riverwalk I can see where you would think it would be less than actual.

On race morning for waterfront tri or for the upcoming IM race do the buses start running early enough to utilize on race morning? I may be staying 2 miles from the transition and don't want to make it a 142.6 mile day or deal with parking race morning... On the website I think they say it starts operation at 10 on normal days ..

I'm sure they will have transportation arranged plenty early enough to handle us. But it might be a good idea to not stress over thing slike this when we are still over 12 months out and you don't even know for sure if you'll get registered :)

For the Waterfront tri they have buses just for the athletes so i'm sure it will be the same.

Seriously? 597ft of "climbing" over 26 miles and you thought it was gonna be FLATTER?

I didn't know the bridges were included and yes, they do add a bit of elevation. I don't mind it, just didn't expect it.

Or it could be like IMNYC that was a cluster for transportation race morning.

Does anyone know what the host hotel will be?


EDIT: I just heard from WTC regarding the host hotel and it has not been determined yet.

Logistics in Chattanooga are quite a bit easier than NYC.

Everything worked out great for me at IMNYC.

Thoughts on how quick Chattanooga may sell out with registration coming up on 9/4.

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HoneyMaxx Ambassador
HoneyMaxx.com

I hope slow enough that my POS work computer can get me in. I haven't been this stoked about doing an IM in years.

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formerly but still a Run Snail...

I was wondering this too. But with a downstream swim its gotta be a TT start so the swim venue isn't limiting. Much like Louisville, I bet they allow 3000+entrants. I don't think it will sell out on day 1. It's so close to Kona that people who would maybe qualify earlier and then do Chattanooga won't.

i'm highly considering this for my 2014 IM (along with maybe 5-7 other races).

would any of you consider grouping up and renting a house via VRBO? with 4-5 of us we can get a house for pretty cheap.

john

I think the main reason it won't sell out so quickly is because all 3000+ slots will go online. No volunteer or racer sign-ups. However, as you would imagine, down south here everyone and their brother, sister, and momma too have said they are going to sign up.