There are no perfect shoes. Some people do well with nothing, some need a lot. If the Hoka's work for you, don't let a book convince you otherwise.
BTW, I have Hoka's, Merrell trail gloves (VFF with a normal toebox) and several in between. I wear them all, but congregate towards a compromise: 4mm drop & 6-10oz.

For me it's simple: Hokas= me being able to run reasonably comfortably. No Hokas= no running at all

Before breaking my leg I ran in lightweight trainers with no problem. I've been running on a regular basis for close to 30 years and have tried just about everything. Minimal/barefoot never worked for me. My personal opinion is that the incidence of injury with minimal/barefoot is way higher than it ever will be with Hokas or similar shoes.

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Formerly DrD

There is no best overall running style (we humans vary quite a bit), so consequently there is no one best running shoe.

Go with what keeps you injury free. If the Hokas work for you, stay with them.

I'm 180 and do well in 7oz super-soft flats, and get injured in 12oz stability shoes. There are 130 pounders who are the exact opposite.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Paleo diet for your feet.

I started listening to this book on audible and made it through 1 or 2 chapters before its preachy tone and ridiculous claims caused me to return it. Whenever someone claims to have discovered the one true path, probably they haven't. I stopped at the point where he related, manifesto-style, how this tribe had no crime, war, theft, corruption, obesity, drug addiction, greed, wife-beating, child abuse, heart disease, high blood pressure or carbon emissions.

Right there I knew this entire book was worthless.

i went through a minimalist phase several years ago. I was running in racing flats for ~3 years for all of my runs. I went through a lot of ache's and pains...and eventually went back to more traditional shoes. even with traditional running shoes, I was constantly dealing with joint pain (I'm only 40...but I'm 195). I got a pair of hoka's bondi-b's about 2 months ago. the change for me has been dramatic. most of the joint pain is gone. I don't think i'll ever want to go back to other shoes (with the exception of racing). ymmv.

i no longer believe in strengthening your feet/joints...etc. I just think if you can run pain free...it's the way to go. if that means you run shoe-less, or with hoka's...so be it.

Yeah, all that and he describes every ultra running girl as extremely hot.

I saw a video once of the guy who wrote that book and he was "running" at probably 12 minute mile pace maybe? I would take his advice with less than a grain of salt and talk to people who have been running for 20 or 30 years. How many of them have been running in minimalist shoes all that time. I, for one, have been running for over 30 years and just started running in Hokas and I wish I had had them back when I was putting in 100+ miles/week. Like Ryan Hall said, when I get passed in a race by someone wearing five fingers, I might think about switching.

I guess I didn't get that far.

X2

Wear what's comfortable. I switched to minimalist (Merrill trail glove, Innov 8 road) the last year and a half, and after starting to develop shin splints and planter fasciitis am switching back to traditional shoes for training. Never had an issue with either of those for the last 15 years I've ran with cushy shoes.

I'll probably use my minimalist shoes for trail races since they cut down on turned ankles, but otherwise have decided my feet need some cushion.

The problem with people who have a piece of the truth is that too often they think they've cornered the market

I feel the minimalist trend is/was a fad. Sales of minimalist shoes are already down over 10% this year according to Runners World. Regardless use what works for you. I took the Hoka plunge and love them.

I echo everyone else's sentiments. Started going with more minimal and lighter shoes. Foot injuries ensued. Switched to Hokas a year ago this month. As others have said, the benefit was immediate and dramatic. Before, I would do a long training run for an ultra or IM and my heels and ankles would be aching for 2 days. Now I can run a 50K and my feet feel like I walked around the mall for an hour. I don't see myself going back to less-cushioned shoes for long runs.

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My business-eBodyboarding.com

^^^ This.

I'm a new convert to the Hokas -- I got them just 3 weeks ago, based on endorsements that I read here. But the effects have been pretty clear. Now I can run, before I was struggling. They look goofy, and they feel kinda weird at first, but for this 45-year old, the choice is simple.

Form before footwear.

But, it's best to choose a shoe that does help you run with a healthy and economic gait.

While Hokas are quite comical looking, they have a fairly low drop, which is not all bad. I'd be worried about the complete lack of ground feel.

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KyleKranz.com
Win a pair of SKORA Running Shoes!

I am yet to add Hokas into my 'rotation' but I feel they likely have a place. Like the previous poster, I am am fan of "ground feel", but at the same time, I don't need ground feel on every run. For example, when I water run, I have zero ground feel, but still getting training benefit.

there isn't a complete lack of ground feel. it's hard to describe. basically hoka's feel like running with some suspension. I'd say the difference is like running in regular shoes on hard pavement vs running on a good squishy track or grass. They really just ease the impact of every stride. For example: being an R.O.U.S. you can literally hear me coming from half a mile away when I run downhill in racing flats. With hoka's, I'm much quieter...which will enable me to sneak up on Dev at epicman ;)

Well, that depends a great deal on what the outsole is made of as well, but I understand. A characteristic of many racing flats is a harder and more ridged outsole. I feel this allows the runner to run harder and feel it less on his feet, during races.

I find it interesting that people claim (seen no true evidence) that they run softer in Hokas. I've always found I run "softer" in less shoe. From some research I've seen, if we run on a softer material we simply land harder. I believe this was from a test that measured impact forces of people running over ground they could not see. When they were suddenly switched to a softer surface, their unconscious started landing harder. The same thing may happen in shoes.


But in the end it all comes down to what's comfortable.

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KyleKranz.com
Win a pair of SKORA Running Shoes!

We are the same height and weight and I am 52. Minimalist shoes (Vibrams) were made for people who are 120 lbs. Your Hokas (I have
the One One's) will extend your running life. It's a matter of physics.

Quote:

We are the same height and weight and I am 52. Minimalist shoes (Vibrams) were made for people who are 120 lbs. Your Hokas (I have
the One One's) will extend your running life. It's a matter of physics.

Pretty sure the Hoka brand is short for Hoka One One, so you might wanna recheck your model.

Sure...but like I said in my previous post...I went through a minimalist phase for ~3 years. The intention of which was to change my form and make things better. My form did change from heal striker to midfoot. But, it did not mitigate the joint pain I was experiencing. I'm 40 and have been running on (mostly) and off since 1986. I'm not making a claim that I run softer...it is a simple fact that the shoe gives you much more suspension and there is much less impact on my joints compared to anything else I've tried. My feet, ankles and knees feel MUCH better. My stride has not changed. I'm not sure how I would simply land harder.

My question to you is...have you actually tried hoka's? If not, then you really have no basis for claiming they don't do what they do. I was skeptical as well...but just walking in them makes it quite apparent that they are very different. Running is no comparison for me. Now, I will admit, maybe I notice it more since I'm 195lbs. Perhaps much smaller runners wouldn't notice as much of a difference (I can't possibly know the answer to that).

No I have not tried Hokas, I'm simply saying what some research I've seen pointed to.

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KyleKranz.com
Win a pair of SKORA Running Shoes!

looks like you already figured it out.. BtR was written by a journalist, its main goal is to sell books and build the journalist's reputation. To quote myself - an exciting anecdote or two, some misapprehended research, a few quotes with context elided, et voilà - the "one best way" to run. Hm, probably not..

I love the Hokas, significant reduction in all my old running injury pains since starting with them. I ran barefoot as a teenager, 6'2" and 145lbs, nowadays at 170lbs with well aged joints ligaments and tendons, need a bit more protection..

my review of the book here..

I defintely run "softer" in Vibrams than in padded shoes. I actually feel that running "too soft" is slower, and you can see it in all the folks running gingerly in Vibrams on pavement (and generally slow). I can wind it up and run 3:45-4 min per kilometer pace in vibrams on grass, but I would say I am running "hard" as in pounding the grass, pre loading my leg and pushing off....not gingerly touching down, but when I get on hard surfaces, I need more padding and would not be able to run that fast on pavement in vibrams. I can see Hokas simulating being on grass....you're just carrying the padding around with you. Having never run in them, I don't know what the ground feel would be like.

Yes, I feel I run slower in thinner shoes as well. Which is why I prefer to race and do speedwork in the SKORA Form, which has that high density EVA outsole. I think a shoe like a racing flat, with the stiff chassis, allows you to run harder. In fact, I believe there is a running form philosophy out there (can't think of it's name) that specifically teaches its athletes to literally pound the ground harder to run faster, which would not be as possible in something like VFF.

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KyleKranz.com
Win a pair of SKORA Running Shoes!

IMHO, in order of importance:

1. midfoot strike
2. high cadence (to facilitate midfoot strike and lessen impact)
3. low heel drop (to facilitate midfoot strike)
4. wide toe box (to allow muscles of foot to work naturally)
5. low cushioning

BTR completely changed the way I run (for the better). Running in Vibrams, I ended my IT band syndrome, and increased my weekly mileage by about 250% over the course of a year...right up until I developed my impact stress fracture. The one point BTR doesn't address (to my memory) is that the people wearing minimalist shoes, minimalist sandals, or completely barefoot weren't running on asphalt and concrete. UNnatural terrain mandates UNnatural shoes. I wear Newtons, now, and couldn't be happier.

Both VIbrams (worn for a year) and Kokas (never worn) are extremes, and as usual, the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle. However, one thing both shoes have in common is a low heel drop; I would recommend to anyone who wants to try something new to avoid injury, increase volume, or get faster to try a shoe with a low heel drop. EDIT: AND get a cadence beeper. Try to get that cadence over 180!!

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____________________________________________
“What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us.” -A.W. Tozer
"The best things in life make you sweaty." -Barbara W.
"I was never great at math, so I had to learn to run faster." -Robbie Sandlin
“Life is like a 10-speed bicycle. Most of us have gears we never use.” Charles Schultz

48, 190 lbs. Dealt with calf and achilles issues for years after abandoning my trusty "heavy" Asics Kayanos. I've gone back, with superfeet inserts. Also mostly slower running (read; no track workouts). I beleive it's that combo which has kept the injuries at bay for 7 months (built up to 35 miles/week). yeah, I'm a little slower, but I'm running regularly again.

n=1, more cushion has worked for me. I'm going to add Hokas to the Kayano rotation.

You should probably look into changing your stride on your own and not look for a shoe to do it.

You might also want to consider the strength and flexibility of your legs (hamstrings) and hip flexors.

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Check out my sad excuse for a blog:
http://brianstriblog.blogspot.com/

I'm 39 years old, 185lbs, started running in feb of 2012. I have had surgery to remove a large part of the miniscus in both of my knees, currently run 5k in 21 minutes, half in about 1:42, .

First shoes were Asics gel fuji racers, loved them. I didnt really know anything about minimalist stuff or running form or any of that, just bought what they sold me. I just naturally run at a cadence of 90 and I run on my forefoot, landing on the outside of my foot, rolling in and back to my heel. This is the only way I could run comfortably enough with my knees.

Asics wore out, I went back to that same running store, said I want this exact same shoe but in a road tread (trail shoes were deadly slippery on wet pavement). I was sold a pair of Mizuno wave inspire 8. First run in that shoe and my feet and knees were in a ton of pain and I had a blister nearly the entire length of the outside of both my feet after only 8k. I started actually researching stuff, realized they sold me the exact polar opposite shoe, then I started actively looking for more minimalist type stuff. Since I spent all my money on the crappy Mizuno's, I went to a clearance place and bought some Reebok Real Flex for cheap. I was actually happy with them except I had to buy a size too big as they are super narrow so sprints gave me blisters as the shoes are 1/2" too long.

Bought a pair of Saucony Cortana's, not too bad, running on a treadmill made my 2nd and 3rd little toes fall asleep, my little toe blew out the side of the uppers in short order, knees never really felt the greatest but ok bearable, I would also still get blisters if I started running faster.

Went back and tried the Mizuno's 2 weeks ago as all my other shoes are worn out, but I used the Cortana insole as it seemed more comfortable. Ran 8k, big mistake. My right knee was destroyed, thought I tore what little misicus I had again, I struggled to barely run at a 5:30/km pace and in hindsight I should have stopped when I knew this wasnt going to end well.

Last week, new running store. Tried the Kinvara 4, was ok, but not sure I liked the feel when just standing in them. I tried a pair of Bondi B's just because I recognized the name from here. Complete opposite of what I thought I liked but they felt so good on my feet. Treadmill run, my 2 toes still feel like they are starting to fall asleep but not as bad as the cortana's and I only noticed it near the end, (doesnt happen at all with the super flexy Reebok's). I seem to run less on my outer forefoot and actually land more flat but still on the outside of my foot , I think this is because the shoes are a bit stiffer than I am used to.
The big shock, I used them for 400m intervals and totally expected to be slower. I was consoling myself by saying "it will give me a few more years before I need new knees" .
My previous best 400m was 1:20 (never said I was fast), but my new best yesterday was 1:15/400m, never ran a single interval over 1:20. I thought it was maybe me hitting my lap button at the wrong time somehow but at the end, including my warm up and warm down,I had a new 10k pr as well (did 7x 400m,,, lost count, thought I did 8). Maybe I just mentally made myself run faster but this is the first time I did the intervals alone. Usually it is with a group and there is a guy who is faster than me that I am always trying to keep up with, so you would think by yourself you would probably be slower. Lots of factors could account for the faster speed though but the 1 big factor for me, my knees felt pretty good, even the one that has been bothering me, my knees NEVER feel good after track intervals and my calves, they are always sore after intervals, not at all yesterday (obviously due to landing more flat is my guess,, or my calf raises i have been doing).
Downfall is they are hot and have no drain. My feet were soaked in sweat.

Bear in mind that while "Born to Run" is an entertaining book and a great story the McDougal is clearly biased against the shoe companies and found a couple physicians to support his beliefs. I'm not knocking barefoot running. It works for some folks and usually those folks are rabid defenders of barefoot running. But it doesn't work for everyone and certainly the shoe companies do not have demonic minions designing all their shoes to simply make as much money as they can. Take it with a grain of salt.

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Pete Githens
Reading, PA

I would actually argue that not overstriding should be #1. I would rather see a heelstriker do so under their center of mass than midfoot strike out in front of their body. However, a mid/whole foot strike and quick cadence both help with not overstriding, as well as reducing vertical oscillation.

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KyleKranz.com
Win a pair of SKORA Running Shoes!

No argument here. You are probably right.

Question: is it possible to heel strike if you AREN'T overstriding? Don't they kinda go hand in hand?

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____________________________________________
“What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us.” -A.W. Tozer
"The best things in life make you sweaty." -Barbara W.
"I was never great at math, so I had to learn to run faster." -Robbie Sandlin
“Life is like a 10-speed bicycle. Most of us have gears we never use.” Charles Schultz

Once again, like everything else on the internet, people take the gist of an idea and polarize it into some sort of "cult". McDougal is just as guilty of this as those who disagree with him. The man found a solution to his running problems. For him, that solution was less shoe. He believes he has found something that has been largely ignored and so he wrote a book about it. The end.

It's been a couple of years since I read his book but as I recall, he is -- like many who just found a cure for what ails them -- too strongly advocate of it. But to dismiss his motives as trying to sell books isn't very helpful. I might just as easily dismiss Hoka for trying to sell shoes. Clearly they are "biased" against minimalism. Is that supposed to somehow invalidate the experiences of folks who can't run without their shoes?

For some people, McDougal is right. For some he is not. I've read experiences contradicting him, I've read experiences supporting him. I dismiss none of these except the the keyboard cowboys who speak in absolutes. It's what I meant about having "a piece of the truth". Why is it so hard to turn off hype and just take the basic idea? There are some people out there whose running life would be made better by less shoe. Sometimes, much less shoe

I am one of them. My running life got a lot better 9 or 10 years ago when I stopped training exclusively in big, cushioned shoes and went to "minimalist". Only then, they weren't called "minimalist". They were called "racing flats".

But they still do have some small amount of cushioning. And that doesn't mean I don't occasionally strap on a pair with a lot of cushioning. Some days, I just need it. And while the Taramura (sp?) Indians in McDougal's book might be able to run all day on sandals, they aren't generally running on pavement either, now are they?.

Still, I can't deny that my injuries became dramatically fewer and far between the moment I started doing most of my training in flats. Like flipping a switch. It was the thing that finally let me do big blocks of 90+ mile weeks without the worry of a nagging injury waiting for me on the other side.

The one nice side-benefit I've noticed from the current "minimalist" hype is that -- along with the shoes I hated the moment I tried them and wouldn't run in if you paid me (e.g. Vibrams) -- there are some fairly cool ones that are basically racing flats under another name (e.g. some of the Brooks and New Balance offerings). And they often more flexible than old-school flats too.

I tried some Hokas this year. No thanks. No way in hell would I ever want to torture my body with such a complete disconnect from the ground underneath. But if I were not able to run without them, you can bet I'd suck it up and squish my way to whatever mileage they allow.

It is not as common to heel strike under your center of gravity, but it definitely happens.

I actually prefer the term "wholefoot strike" as it emphasizes a bit more, not landing too far forward or too far back, but almost flat footed. If you are bringing your foot almost straight up and down under your COG, a little dorsi flexion of the ankle, and your heel will probably hit the ground sooner. You also may be increasing your risk of shin splints, but that's for another discussion.

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KyleKranz.com
Win a pair of SKORA Running Shoes!

Yes it is, although the same person would heel strike a lot less when lending underneath the body than they would out front.

I think the key is weight transfer, if you touch down on your heel but your weight transfer happens when your foot is close to or under your body with a nice bent knee then you are avoiding the braking forces. I struggle to run midfoot completely but it was quite easy to massively reduce my overstride; my injuries have abated at the same time .... whether because they just did or did because of the changes is untested, just my n=1 experience and anecdotal evidence.

I quite liked the book, made me want to run, made me think about form a lot, didn't make me want to run barefoot though. It's good to listen to alternatives even if you don't agree with them.

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

i love/hate my hokas. i actually did something to my patella tendon after running the escape to palisades HM two weeks ago. it was actually my fifth run in the shoes so that's one reason for the patella pain and the other obvious one was that i decided i would fly down the hills since the shoes had so much cushioning and i felt great doing it especially passing a lot of runners. the shoes are great, but i have to build up the mileage before doing a HM in them again especially a HM with a lot of hills.

im at 95% now and back to running in my skechers for the time being.

^^^^both of these.

Same story. Hokas are a a "game changer". I am 51 and a life long runner (not much from age 36 to 47, though after knee issues). I struggled to get back into running form. I ran through a lot of pain. Appreciated the half dozen times I went to the highschool football field with synthetic turf and took my shoes off to get a sense of the "minimalist gate". I never ran on pavement barefoot. I stuck to a neutral cushioned shoe, but I always was very very sore after a 6+ mile run. I've been in Hokas since February and am so thrilled to run long and not feel "beat to death". I have even run long on back to back days without lingering soreness. The worst part about it is that I bore people to death talking about how great my running shoes are.

The surge is over

http://www.runnersworld.com/...malist-shoes-plummet

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Great book! Two things to remember-
1) These people grew up running that way, hence the title, which allowed their muscles/feet to adapt from an early age.
2) There is no asphalt, concrete where they run.

LOVE my Hoka's and asked myself the same question when reading Born to Run but then i actually thought, logically, about it. :)

D

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Team Every Man Jack

http://www.teamemj.com

I am a fan of minimilist shoes, having had stress fractures, mortons neuroma, plantar fascitus over the last decade -- in Nimbus and Kineisis. That being said, I have been transitioning over a period of 2 years, with the most important aspect being strong focus on changing my running style completely. Quiet - flat stride, fast turn over, drive from the hamstrings and run tall. My pace has accelerated significantly. I still have bursitus in the knee. The Morton's is still sort of there after a long run...so I wear either the NB minimilist, or Brooks track shoes with a wide box. Need a bit of cushioning. The challenge is to keep my form towards the end of a long run. I do find that regular shoes really inhibit my turnover, and force a heel strike.

Same here. Blows me away when I'm still going to trail races and people are still saying, "what are those?". I figured everyone in the trail racing world had heard of Hoka by now.

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My business-eBodyboarding.com

Interesting article. I think most people understand the benefits of a low-drop shoe, but now realize that "low drop" and "thin sole" are not necessarily one and the same. Runners can enjoy most of the benefits of barefoot running thru cadence training and low drop shoes that *gasp* still protect your feet from rocks, cracked asphalt, and broken glass.
That being said, it is important to not judge the efficacy of a product by what the masses are buying. I have never seen a competitive runner in Brooks Beasts :-)

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____________________________________________
“What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us.” -A.W. Tozer
"The best things in life make you sweaty." -Barbara W.
"I was never great at math, so I had to learn to run faster." -Robbie Sandlin
“Life is like a 10-speed bicycle. Most of us have gears we never use.” Charles Schultz

I started listening to this book on audible and made it through 1 or 2 chapters before its preachy tone and ridiculous claims caused me to return it. Whenever someone claims to have discovered the one true path, probably they haven't. I stopped at the point where he related, manifesto-style, how this tribe had no crime, war, theft, corruption, obesity, drug addiction, greed, wife-beating, child abuse, heart disease, high blood pressure or carbon emissions.

Right there I knew this entire book was worthless.



Amen endofempire!

I have a brand new pair of Hokas that I'm desperate to try. I have plantar fasciitis, and I'm hoping these shoes are going to give me the feel of a mid foot strike with a 5 to 6mm drop shoe and have mega cushioning to help with the pain. I can only see these shoes gaining in popularity with the long course crowd. They are probably the most comfortable shoes I've ever tried. Unfortunately I have to stay off my foot this season, which has pretty much scrubbed my races. Keep us up-dated on your experience with the Hokas.

I tried to read it a few years ago when it was popular. I thought it was like a re-write of Carlos Canteneda's ''A Separate Reality'' from the 60's. I took it back to the library.

Too many of these new age running books are written to sell books. Hoka shoes are made for running. I haven't felt this good running in a looooooooooong time!

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

I am a huge fan of Born to Run and I think it is a great read on many levels.

One point he makes that I think is good advice for anyone is that strong feet are important to good form. I have VFF's and Footgloves
(better for winter with socks) that I try to use at least once a week. Even if you go for a walk in the park in them, you stress your feet in ways
that you don't in other shoes. Most of my running is done in Saucony Kinvaras

I'm now dealing with sore feet for the first time in years, since my wife has me playing tennis with her in a double league. I think the start-stop-sprint
nature is the culprit - but the Tennis shoes do have a big padded sole. I've been trying to do a good foot massage stretch before & after which seems to help.
We're not much good and it is a new lesson in humility getting whipped up on by white haired 60 and 70 year olds wearing 5-6 braces between them ;-)
.

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978

Doesn't matter...purpose of this is illustrating the difference between Hokas and Vibrams.

And think about where they are doing most of the running in the book.....on a softer surface. So more shoe cushion is not needed. I enjoyed the book and like someone else said it helped me transition to a mid foot strike.

I'm more concerned about a low drop than low cushion, because almost 100% of my training is on a hard surface, which is why I love the Tarmac and B2.

I enjoyed your review.

Mate, you gotta do what is best for you, but don't get too hung up on going as 'bare foot' as vibrams!

If you stand on a sharp rock with those suckers you'll 'definitely feel it! You have so many other minimalist shoes to choose from but remember to change over Poly Poly (slowly slowly) as thats where all the injuries are coming from!! Impatience and changing over too rapidly!

Good luck and may the run be with you!

Took the plunge today before seeing this thread on a pair of Bondi B's, and based on what I have read on here, I'm glad I did. Proof will be in the pudding as they say, but hoping to get back to running after an achilles injury (and a recent calf strain) has left me sidelined for nearly 4 weeks now. End of the world at the time, but nothing like a new 'toy' to fire that motivation, and hopefully get me pounding the pavements injury free sooner rather than later.