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Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper)
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http://www.news.com.au/...dukor0-1226557728966

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"HELL yes," Lance Armstrong said when asked if he wanted to return to elite sport.
"Hell no" is the reaction from the greats of the ironman triathlon community Armstrong wants to join.

Hawaii ironman world champion Pete Jacobs has told News Limited he does not want to see Armstrong back in the sport after he confessed to systematic doping."We are all done with the cheating and lies," he said.
And former triple world champion Craig Alexander wants the sport of ironman to rewrite the rules so that no athlete who has tested positive can ever compete again.

It is understood Armstrong's end game has always been to race in ironman, specifically the Hawaii triathlon world championship that has been dominated in recent years by Jacobs and fellow Australians Alexander and Chris McCormack.

"The advantages, because he could train so much harder, are still there," Jacobs said.

"That would be an unfair advantage. If the body is fitter, stronger, it is still effective. It (Armstrong's body) would have to retain some of that."

Armstrong has won two 70.3 (half ironman distance) triathlons and it is understood he sees the sport as the best way to make money given his sponsors have deserted him.

The Texan won in Hawaii, Florida and finished second to highly regarded Kiwi Bevan Docherty in Panama.

Armstrong's time in his Florida win, 3:45:38, is genuinely world class and his 3:50:55 in Hawaii broke champion McCormack's record by several minutes.

Lance Armstrong waits for the start of the Ironman Panama 70.3 triathlon in Panama City, Panama. Source: Getty Images
Jacobs spoke out after the second part of Armstrong's interview with Oprah Winfrey, in which the American confirmed he wanted to return to elite competition.

"Hell yes, I'm a competitor," Armstrong said when asked if he wanted to compete in sport again. "It's what I've done my whole life. I love to train. I love to race.

"Not the Tour de France, but there are a lot of other things I could do."

Armstrong was planning to take part in last October's Hawaii ironman in Kona before the scandal broke. Jacobs said he would not welcome a return by Armstrong to ironman triathon if the disgraced rider should get his suspension lifted or reduced by turning whistleblower.

"No, not really, I think it would cause too much of a stir," said Jacobs, who won the 2012 Hawaii ironman just days after the full extent of Armstrong's doping was revealed by USADA.

"This is a a sport driven by age groupers. People would not be happy to see him back."

Alexander yesterday called for his sport, which abides by the World Anti-Doping Agency code, to take a tougher stance against drug cheats.

"We need to draw a line in the sand and say 'no'," he said. "This is a great time to take stock and put new rules in place for zero tolerance."

Lance Armstrong competes the run leg of a triathlon. Source: Getty Images
Triathlon Australia chief executive Anne Gripper has derided Armstrong as far worse than a drug cheat.

Her opinions are particularly significant because she set up the anti-doping unit at cycling's world governing body in the wake of the 2006 Operation Puerto scandal.

"If he was just a drug cheat, I always believe you should do a sanction and have the right to come back to the sport," Gripper said.

"He's not a drug cheat - he's a bully, he's a manipulator, he's been incredibly unfair to a whole lot of people and he's a dead-set liar.

"(He's) not a single, one-off liar, he's a pathological liar.

"I don't want those people in our sport."

Rhymenocerus wrote:
I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.
Last edited by: PJC: Jan 20, 13 22:27
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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WTC CEO said last week under no circumstances would they be withdrawing as WADA signatory, so lance isnt racing unless he gets a mammoth deal from WADA, which USADA would have to sign off on. It would have to mean coming clean about USAC and UCI im quite sure to even get close to that ballpark, 2 things he didnt seem willing to do in his interview.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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I fully support at lifetime ban on any, I mean any doping infraction by any athlete in any sport. Period. Very simple. No second chance ever for anybody.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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Give him a lifetime ban as pro and let the guy be an age grouper. I say they are scared of him! NO matter WHAT anybody says the guy is full of athletic talent. Dope or no dope. If they let him into Kona he will be a man on a mission and T.V. ratings will soar.

Not saying what the man did was right but when 90% of the other guys do it and only get small bans it's not right. Even ban the guy from road racing but to ban him from everything is freaking crazy. Make him an age grouper and move on!
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [atasic] [ In reply to ]
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atasic wrote:
I fully support at lifetime ban on any, I mean any doping infraction by any athlete in any sport. Period. Very simple. No second chance ever for anybody.

Interesting there was just an interview on the radio here with John Fahey the head of WADA and he said he can name everyone who ever helped him and they would never lift his lifetime ban.

When it get's podcasts I will put up a link.

Rhymenocerus wrote:
I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [white79bu] [ In reply to ]
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white79bu wrote:
Give him a lifetime ban as pro and let the guy be an age grouper. I say they are scared of him! NO matter WHAT anybody says the guy is full of athletic talent. Dope or no dope. If they let him into Kona he will be a man on a mission and T.V. ratings will soar.

Not saying what the man did was right but when 90% of the other guys do it and only get small bans it's not right. Even ban the guy from road racing but to ban him from everything is freaking crazy. Make him an age grouper and move on!

Fuck that. We don't want him in the sport, period.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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You really can't post anything without swearing can you?

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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Devlin wrote:
white79bu wrote:
Give him a lifetime ban as pro and let the guy be an age grouper. I say they are scared of him! NO matter WHAT anybody says the guy is full of athletic talent. Dope or no dope. If they let him into Kona he will be a man on a mission and T.V. ratings will soar.

Not saying what the man did was right but when 90% of the other guys do it and only get small bans it's not right. Even ban the guy from road racing but to ban him from everything is freaking crazy. Make him an age grouper and move on!


Fuck that. We don't want him in the sport, period.

John

We who? Not all "We" as some want to see him compete.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Hanaki] [ In reply to ]
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Hanaki wrote:
We who? Not all "We" as some want to see him compete.

Stick a lab rat on a treadmill, you'll get just as much out of it. If he wants to keep doing the Livestrong thing and helping cancer survivors/victims/families, I'm all for it. If he wants to compete? Let him find some unsanctioned sports/races to do. The "we" that want to see him compete are basically saying they don't care about doping in sports.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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pattersonpaul wrote:
You really can't post anything without swearing can you?

Yes, and quite often I do post without recourse to profanity/vulgarity. But feel free to fixate all you like.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Hanaki] [ In reply to ]
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Hanaki wrote:
We who? Not all "We" as some want to see him cheat.

Fixed it for you.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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Devlin wrote:
Hanaki wrote:
We who? Not all "We" as some want to see him compete.


Stick a lab rat on a treadmill, you'll get just as much out of it. If he wants to keep doing the Livestrong thing and helping cancer survivors/victims/families, I'm all for it. If he wants to compete? Let him find some unsanctioned sports/races to do. The "we" that want to see him compete are basically saying they don't care about doping in sports.

John

Until it is one and done the past cheats will always be there.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Hanaki] [ In reply to ]
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I really don't care if they let him compete age group.

So we are basically saying a baseball doper couldn't play beer league or an NFLer couldn't play organize flag football ever.

Please people think too highly of stupid age group tri

______________________________________
"Bros b4 Hos, man" House MD

Team Aquaphor 06-08
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [ivansie] [ In reply to ]
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ivansie wrote:
I really don't care if they let him compete age group.

So we are basically saying a baseball doper couldn't play beer league or an NFLer couldn't play organize flag football ever.

Please people think too highly of stupid age group tri

Well, for one, baseball and football are not WADA signatories, and pro's/elites can later compete as age groupers (See some of the whine threads about that on here as well), so it's not a good parallel. Two, I'm not taking the stance just for triathlon. Across the board, I wouldn't want him in any WADA signatory sport. If he wants to go play beer league baseball or whatever, more power to him. Sanctioned sports? Nope. He had his bite at the apple.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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Just so I can keep up.... Are you all still assuming that triathlon is a clean sport now?? You are kidding right?
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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Eve if we want to romatizice age group tri it is beer league it is flag football. Those are not Olympic sports hence the wada issue

We can disagree and that is fine but if the guy gets his ban reduced I don't give a crap if he shows up in my age group at a tri or wants to do the local crit series. It's not my job anyways.

______________________________________
"Bros b4 Hos, man" House MD

Team Aquaphor 06-08
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [ivansie] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think you understand how most in the world is organized.
You cannot cheat in a sport that is following Wada and keep competing in another. You cannot cheat in cross country skiing, get caught and then start running. Also remember that the pro vs AG is triathlon and US specific.

But you can be thrown out of the Olympics for cheating and then run on a full scholarship at a NCAA university (yes it has happen)

If you want to dope and compete, stay away from real sports.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Pedalsaurus-Tex] [ In reply to ]
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No one in this thread has claimed that triathlons are clean. Most people are saying that if you get caught doing the crime, do the time.


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Halvard wrote:
I don't think you understand how most in the world is organized.
You cannot cheat in a sport that is following Wada and keep competing in another. You cannot cheat in cross country skiing, get caught and then start running. Also remember that the pro vs AG is triathlon and US specific.

But you can be thrown out of the Olympics for cheating and then run on a full scholarship at a NCAA university (yes it has happen)


If you want to dope and compete, stay away from real sports.

I don't think you got my point since you assumed from the get go I don't know how stuff works but ill try to make my point again which is my opinion. Age group tri is recreational it is the intramural league in college. It's a signatory because its an Olympic sport if it wasn't there will be no reason for it. So as much as we want to make it sound like a big deal its is my soccer masters league which by the way has tons of ex pros and nobody will care if one of them s
Doped. My point is not the regulations it's the fact that I as opposed to Jacobs or Alexander would give a crap if the guy shows up in my age group. It's dumb recreational race nothing more big deal

______________________________________
"Bros b4 Hos, man" House MD

Team Aquaphor 06-08
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Pedalsaurus-Tex] [ In reply to ]
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Pedalsaurus-Tex wrote:
Just so I can keep up.... Are you all still assuming that triathlon is a clean sport now?? You are kidding right?

It will become much more clean if he's banned. It will become much more dirty if he's not.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [white79bu] [ In reply to ]
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The biggest problem with this (setting aside the doping angle) is the time difference between the Pro and AG race. So, he'd never have a chance to "lead" the race. Of course WTC/NBC could work their magic to make it seem like he's leading the race if they wanted to, but having Lance in Kona really completes the full "sucking the money tit" if Lance were to actually lead the race (say into T2). Winning the AG race at Kona for Lance would be like winning the ToC in cycling. Great, but doesnt mean zilch in the grand scheme of things for the big boys.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [atasic] [ In reply to ]
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Just curious, can Nina Kraft race Kona again if she qualifies?











Pink on/off.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [white79bu] [ In reply to ]
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Nothing in the rules to allow that.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [vmac] [ In reply to ]
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vmac wrote:
Just curious, can Nina Kraft race Kona again if she qualifies?

Pink on/off.
She can, but that doesn't mean she should. However, that's the way the rules are (currently) written.

If she also had a "lifetime ban", she wouldn't be racing either.

There's always Strava.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
vmac wrote:
Just curious, can Nina Kraft race Kona again if she qualifies?

Pink on/off.

She can, but that doesn't mean she should. However, that's the way the rules are (currently) written.

If she also had a "lifetime ban", she wouldn't be racing either.

There's always Strava.

She has qualified and turned it down to her credit.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [sdmike] [ In reply to ]
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Without any doping and as a teenager LA stayed with the best triathletes in the world so it was not ALL the doping. If he isn't earning any money why not let him race.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [sdmike] [ In reply to ]
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I did not realized that she did that...pretty class, FWIW.

Hmmm...if Lance went the way of Sammy Gravano. It would certainly prove that cycling's omertà is a sham. Letting Lance back in the game to take down the 'family' that is the UCI and it's various factions, capos, etc...seems like a small price to pay to finally cure the disease instead of extracting the ultimate symptom.

:)
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [dbrunner] [ In reply to ]
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dbrunner wrote:
Without any doping and as a teenager LA stayed with the best triathletes in the world so it was not ALL the doping. If he isn't earning any money why not let him race.
It's not at all clear that he wasn't doping as a teenager.

Regardless, not letting him race is punishment for his actions. When you screw up, there are consequences.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Can't guarantee he was or wasn't as a teenager but I doubt any doctor was funding his doping unless the doctor had a crystal ball that worked and had percentage cut on LA's future earnings.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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"It's not at all clear that he wasn't doping as a teenager."

There was not any money in age group triathlons back in the mid 1980s. So, when
he was 13 and kicking the daylights out of adult men where do you imagine
the funding came from for all these PEDs?

I'm fairly sure his mom didn't have that kind of money, judging by the
car she drove taking him to and from races.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
Last edited by: pattersonpaul: Jan 21, 13 20:15
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [kennyDalglish] [ In reply to ]
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"Doped to the eyeballs but entertaining." I may be changing my signature line!

Damn if I'm not a principled guy, but there's a big part of me that just wants to see LA go all out at IMH. It's like seeing how far Jose Conseco can hit a ball with an aluminum bat. It wouldn't be fair, but you'd see it and go "Holy S4it"!

Has LA/MJ ever posted a training TT on the IMH course?


Damn, that's a cold ass honkey.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Freelancer] [ In reply to ]
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Age-Group is recreational ?

Well, maybe for 70-80% of the participants, but the other 20-30% who invest a lot of sweat, money and countless hours might see him pop-up in a race and take a qualification-slot they where aiming for.

Let him race AG ? Fine, but ban him from the championships, so even if he makes podium, he can't get a Kona-ticket.

Personally (and I have mentioned this before), I would not like to see him in races, whether they are races I compete in or not. Not so much because he doped, but because of his continuous lying, cheating, threathning, bullying, ... If he wants to race and show his fysical capabilities, let him race the extra-ordinary stuff like NorseMan and stuff. The price-money is small compared, the global glamour is small, but the sense of achievement only that much bigger.

A person I admire (former WC MTB - Filip Meirhaeghe) doped and he admitted. He could even have continued and even go back in the woods riding whilst the testers where waiting at his house until they had left. He felt that he was cheating and the right thing to do was to let himself get caught so he did. He was doing the crime, he did the time. He openly confessed to doping immediately and took it on the chin. After his ban he returned, continued for 4 more years and then retired. I like him for his talent and as a person, but I admire him for his honesty and openess.

GReetz,

S.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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pattersonpaul wrote:
"It's not at all clear that he wasn't doping as a teenager."

There was not any money in age group triathlons back in the mid 1980s. So, when
he was 13 and kicking the daylights out of adult men where do you imagine
the funding came from for all these PEDs?

I'm fairly sure his mom didn't have that kind of money, judging by the
car she drove taking him to and from races.

He definiely raced professional as 16 year old for prize money. I'm not sure his status as a 15 yr old.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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I am a Lance hater but arent there plenty of unsanctioned events with pretty good competition that he could do?

It seems that he would be competing in these. We have many triathlons around here taht have good fields that are not USAT?

and there are plenty of mt bike and running races he could do today. What am I missing?
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe USADA, WADA and WTC can make the decision, and those who participate can talk with actions. If the governing bodies decide to reduce his penalty, then that is what they think is fair. And for what it's worth, it's their call. If other athletes disagree, then they can walk.

Personally, I don't see them reducing the penalty to the point where Lance will have any affect on Triathlon. Maybe reduced so that he could race in 2 or more years, but by then he'll be older, and if he can still beat the younger pros, then they suck...
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]
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Steve-oH! wrote:
I am a Lance hater but arent there plenty of unsanctioned events with pretty good competition that he could do?

It seems that he would be competing in these. We have many triathlons around here taht have good fields that are not USAT?

and there are plenty of mt bike and running races he could do today. What am I missing?

Thanks for admitting that you hate Lance. That's more than most will do, I admire your honesty. That's sort of what I'm thinking.
What's to keep him from having his own triathlon series? I'm sure very few big named pros would want to race him and
it has nothing to do at all with the fear of him being on PEDs.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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We have some local pros/athletes that would give him a run for his money that are doing events that are not sanctioned.

What is keeping him from doing some regional/local run races...trail races....ultras.....seems that that would go a long way in feeding his desire to compete....

Is the problem that the local RD would refuse to enter him?

perhaps this is his back up plan.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [ivansie] [ In reply to ]
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ivansie wrote:

people think too highly of stupid age group tri


If that's your attitude i.e. that just about everyone that participates in tri is engaged in a 'stupid' pastime, then why are you a member of this Forum; other than to post 'stupid' comments that is?

29 years and counting
Last edited by: Jorgan: Jan 22, 13 6:53
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [shamerli] [ In reply to ]
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shamerli wrote:
Age-Group is recreational ?

Well, maybe for 70-80% of the participants, but the other 20-30% who invest a lot of sweat, money and countless hours might see him pop-up in a race and take a qualification-slot they where aiming for.

Wait....are we talking about Lance or Kevin Moats?
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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pattersonpaul wrote:
"It's not at all clear that he wasn't doping as a teenager."

There was not any money in age group triathlons back in the mid 1980s. So, when
he was 13 and kicking the daylights out of adult men where do you imagine
the funding came from for all these PEDs?

I'm fairly sure his mom didn't have that kind of money, judging by the
car she drove taking him to and from races.

there definitely was money in tris in the 80s and he was winning money to help his mom pay the bills. i think that it's highly likely he was doped back then. i also wouldn't be surprised if he still is doping because he is so used to feeling artificially good on runs and rides that he wouldn't be able to deal with how a natural 41 year old feels during and after workouts.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [dbrunner] [ In reply to ]
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dbrunner wrote:
Without any doping and as a teenager LA stayed with the best triathletes in the world so it was not ALL the doping. If he isn't earning any money why not let him race.

Because even without prize purses, money is the reason he wants to race. Racing is a vehicle to sponsorship money which is the only thing that he really has in terms of something that will keep him at the level of affluence he's used to.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
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I don't make something that is purely recreational although very competitive more than what it is. If you are not racing pro it is what it is

My membership on the forum is non of your concern and my opinions are as valid as yours

My point is again and maybe stupid was a bad choice of word that is same as other organized recreational sports nothing more

______________________________________
"Bros b4 Hos, man" House MD

Team Aquaphor 06-08
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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His first tri coach Rick Crawford was just fired for doping his athletes....

http://velonews.competitor.com/...l-accusations_269341

when I saw this I reallized the possibility of him doping pretty early on became much more plausible....
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [ivansie] [ In reply to ]
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Indeed, your membership is none of my concern; I just thought it a strange thing to say (even shooting from the hip), given you're obviously an active member of the Forum and Triathlon community :-)

29 years and counting
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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Here's an obvious question.

Can anyone prove to me that Jacobs, Crowie, and Macca are clean?

24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [shamerli] [ In reply to ]
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shamerli wrote:

Personally (and I have mentioned this before), I would not like to see him in races, whether they are races I compete in or not. Not so much because he doped, but because of his continuous lying, cheating, threathning, bullying, ...


I've seen this type of response more than a few times since the interview. I don't understand it at all. Basically what you are saying is that you think that there should be a morality or ethics test to be allowed to compete? For example, are you going to let dead beat dads compete? What about a white collar tax cheat? In both those people, they did harm to others...possibly great irreparable harm. So should WTC/USAT develop a criteria on whether you can compete based on whether you are a good citizen or not?


It really seems like people don't want Lance to compete b/c they don't like him as a person. In many cases, people have said that they can understand/forgive the doping (everyone was doing it), but what he did to all those poor people....what a terrible person....ban him!! But that's the thing, there's no rule in the sport about keeping a person out b/c they are a scumbag...and I really hope that they don't go down that road. It's not the WTC/USAT, etc job to be judge and jury on someone's ethics. If they want to keep him out by enforcing a ban for doping by USADA or WADA...fine. But if he gets his ban lifted and can race, keeping him out b/c of the lying, cheating, threatening, bullying, etc is BS.
Quote Reply
Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cmscat50 wrote:
Here's an obvious question.

Can anyone prove to me that Jacobs, Crowie, and Macca are clean?

Even more so, some of the top Ironmen of the 90s and early 00s

29 years and counting
Quote Reply
Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Twotter wrote:
shamerli wrote:

Personally (and I have mentioned this before), I would not like to see him in races, whether they are races I compete in or not. Not so much because he doped, but because of his continuous lying, cheating, threathning, bullying, ...


I've seen this type of response more than a few times since the interview. I don't understand it at all. Basically what you are saying is that you think that there should be a morality or ethics test to be allowed to compete? For example, are you going to let dead beat dads compete? What about a white collar tax cheat? In both those people, they did harm to others...possibly great irreparable harm. So should WTC/USAT develop a criteria on whether you can compete based on whether you are a good citizen or not?


It really seems like people don't want Lance to compete b/c they don't like him as a person. In many cases, people have said that they can understand/forgive the doping (everyone was doing it), but what he did to all those poor people....what a terrible person....ban him!! But that's the thing, there's no rule in the sport about keeping a person out b/c they are a scumbag...and I really hope that they don't go down that road. It's not the WTC/USAT, etc job to be judge and jury on someone's ethics. If they want to keep him out by enforcing a ban for doping by USADA or WADA...fine. But if he gets his ban lifted and can race, keeping him out b/c of the lying, cheating, threatening, bullying, etc is BS.
+1
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I seem to remember a certain top pro tri star being banned from competing in France in the late 80's early 90's due to Nandrolone....

do any of the old timers remember this???
Quote Reply
Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Lets leave it at that. No intention to offend. I love the sport but I view it for what it is in my opinion and don't want to make it to be more than that

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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Twotter wrote:
shamerli wrote:

Personally (and I have mentioned this before), I would not like to see him in races, whether they are races I compete in or not. Not so much because he doped, but because of his continuous lying, cheating, threathning, bullying, ...


I've seen this type of response more than a few times since the interview. I don't understand it at all. Basically what you are saying is that you think that there should be a morality or ethics test to be allowed to compete? For example, are you going to let dead beat dads compete? What about a white collar tax cheat? In both those people, they did harm to others...possibly great irreparable harm. So should WTC/USAT develop a criteria on whether you can compete based on whether you are a good citizen or not?


It really seems like people don't want Lance to compete b/c they don't like him as a person. In many cases, people have said that they can understand/forgive the doping (everyone was doing it), but what he did to all those poor people....what a terrible person....ban him!! But that's the thing, there's no rule in the sport about keeping a person out b/c they are a scumbag...and I really hope that they don't go down that road. It's not the WTC/USAT, etc job to be judge and jury on someone's ethics. If they want to keep him out by enforcing a ban for doping by USADA or WADA...fine. But if he gets his ban lifted and can race, keeping him out b/c of the lying, cheating, threatening, bullying, etc is BS.

why is it so hard for you to understand people who don't want the most notorious cheater of all time banned from races? people who make relatively tiny transgressions in the sport -- like bandit races, cut courses or swap numbers -- receive lifetime bans. it may come as news to you but there actually is a rule in the sport about keeping someone out who has been involved in a massive cheating ring and it's a lifetime ban. it really is shocking to me that people still are this clueless about the issues at hand here.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [ivansie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
:-)

29 years and counting
Quote Reply
Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cmscat50 wrote:
Here's an obvious question.

Can anyone prove to me that Jacobs, Crowie, and Macca are clean?

Are you saying that they are not?

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [bobloblaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
bobloblaw wrote:
Because even without prize purses, money is the reason he wants to race. Racing is a vehicle to sponsorship money which is the only thing that he really has in terms of something that will keep him at the level of affluence he's used to.

I think Lance has more affluence than you give him credit for. His $100 million in financial weath will produce $10 million in yearly income.

I think he wants to compete because when he does he feels important.
Quote Reply
Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [mag900] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mag900 wrote:
Twotter wrote:
shamerli wrote:

Personally (and I have mentioned this before), I would not like to see him in races, whether they are races I compete in or not. Not so much because he doped, but because of his continuous lying, cheating, threathning, bullying, ...


I've seen this type of response more than a few times since the interview. I don't understand it at all. Basically what you are saying is that you think that there should be a morality or ethics test to be allowed to compete? For example, are you going to let dead beat dads compete? What about a white collar tax cheat? In both those people, they did harm to others...possibly great irreparable harm. So should WTC/USAT develop a criteria on whether you can compete based on whether you are a good citizen or not?


It really seems like people don't want Lance to compete b/c they don't like him as a person. In many cases, people have said that they can understand/forgive the doping (everyone was doing it), but what he did to all those poor people....what a terrible person....ban him!! But that's the thing, there's no rule in the sport about keeping a person out b/c they are a scumbag...and I really hope that they don't go down that road. It's not the WTC/USAT, etc job to be judge and jury on someone's ethics. If they want to keep him out by enforcing a ban for doping by USADA or WADA...fine. But if he gets his ban lifted and can race, keeping him out b/c of the lying, cheating, threatening, bullying, etc is BS.


why is it so hard for you to understand people who don't want the most notorious cheater of all time banned from races? people who make relatively tiny transgressions in the sport -- like bandit races, cut courses or swap numbers -- receive lifetime bans. it may come as news to you but there actually is a rule in the sport about keeping someone out who has been involved in a massive cheating ring and it's a lifetime ban. it really is shocking to me that people still are this clueless about the issues at hand here.


Thanks, in an effort to not be clueless - can you point out that cheating ring rule to me http://www.usatriathlon.org/...isport/rulebook.aspx
I think you may not have understood or bothered to fully read what I said. I'll reiterate - if he is banned by USADA/WADA - fine, don't let him race. I think that this falls within the USAT rules. However, if a ban is lifted by USADA/WADA - I'm not seeing any rule that prevents his racing - unless there is the doping ring rule that you refer to that I seem to be missing. My point is that I don't see a "scumbag/shitty human being" rule in the above link and I don't think that there should be. You may find Lance to be the most disgusting person ever...at the same time I may find the tax cheat dead beat dad that has had multiple DUIs a disgusting person, but I don't think there are people out there trying to prevent the tax cheat deadbeat from competing.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm saying to prove it to me that every pro triathlete isn't dirty?

It really pains me to say that....seriously it does....

Those that are caught have generally been very good at convincing the rest of us they are clean. So when the "others" say the same why should we believe them?

Again just looking at it from the other side....I really want to believe there are clean athletes out there.

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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Twotter wrote:
shamerli wrote:

Personally (and I have mentioned this before), I would not like to see him in races, whether they are races I compete in or not. Not so much because he doped, but because of his continuous lying, cheating, threathning, bullying, ...


I've seen this type of response more than a few times since the interview. I don't understand it at all. Basically what you are saying is that you think that there should be a morality or ethics test to be allowed to compete? For example, are you going to let dead beat dads compete? What about a white collar tax cheat? In both those people, they did harm to others...possibly great irreparable harm. So should WTC/USAT develop a criteria on whether you can compete based on whether you are a good citizen or not?


It really seems like people don't want Lance to compete b/c they don't like him as a person. In many cases, people have said that they can understand/forgive the doping (everyone was doing it), but what he did to all those poor people....what a terrible person....ban him!! But that's the thing, there's no rule in the sport about keeping a person out b/c they are a scumbag...and I really hope that they don't go down that road. It's not the WTC/USAT, etc job to be judge and jury on someone's ethics. If they want to keep him out by enforcing a ban for doping by USADA or WADA...fine. But if he gets his ban lifted and can race, keeping him out b/c of the lying, cheating, threatening, bullying, etc is BS.

Thank you.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Quote Reply
Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [mag900] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mag900 wrote:
Twotter wrote:
shamerli wrote:

Personally (and I have mentioned this before), I would not like to see him in races, whether they are races I compete in or not. Not so much because he doped, but because of his continuous lying, cheating, threathning, bullying, ...


I've seen this type of response more than a few times since the interview. I don't understand it at all. Basically what you are saying is that you think that there should be a morality or ethics test to be allowed to compete? For example, are you going to let dead beat dads compete? What about a white collar tax cheat? In both those people, they did harm to others...possibly great irreparable harm. So should WTC/USAT develop a criteria on whether you can compete based on whether you are a good citizen or not?


It really seems like people don't want Lance to compete b/c they don't like him as a person. In many cases, people have said that they can understand/forgive the doping (everyone was doing it), but what he did to all those poor people....what a terrible person....ban him!! But that's the thing, there's no rule in the sport about keeping a person out b/c they are a scumbag...and I really hope that they don't go down that road. It's not the WTC/USAT, etc job to be judge and jury on someone's ethics. If they want to keep him out by enforcing a ban for doping by USADA or WADA...fine. But if he gets his ban lifted and can race, keeping him out b/c of the lying, cheating, threatening, bullying, etc is BS.


why is it so hard for you to understand people who don't want the most notorious cheater of all time banned from races? people who make relatively tiny transgressions in the sport -- like bandit races, cut courses or swap numbers -- receive lifetime bans. it may come as news to you but there actually is a rule in the sport about keeping someone out who has been involved in a massive cheating ring and it's a lifetime ban. it really is shocking to me that people still are this clueless about the issues at hand here.

What part of the highlighted text don't you understand?

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
in follow up about the triathletes of the 80's/90's....Scott Molina was one of the big four and was banned from the Nice Triathlon in France due to a failed test....Nandralone if memory serves......

very few seem to ever remember this or talk about it....only seems fair to list this when talking about the history of drug use in Triathlon....

from David Evans blog:

http://roadbacktokona.blogspot.com/

talking about Lance.....

" If so, he would not have been the first triathlete to dope. Scott Molina failed a post-race drug test in Nice, France, in the mid-80s and then was banned for life from the Nice race, at the time, along with Kona, one of only two standout races in the young sport. We know that Lance had access to this coterie of triathletes of which Molina was a leader and growing legend. Was Molina part of a larger performance-enhancing drug culture in triathlon? No matter, was Molina an early and poor influence on Lance? We may never know."
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [klehner] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
klehner wrote:
mag900 wrote:
Twotter wrote:
shamerli wrote:

Personally (and I have mentioned this before), I would not like to see him in races, whether they are races I compete in or not. Not so much because he doped, but because of his continuous lying, cheating, threathning, bullying, ...


I've seen this type of response more than a few times since the interview. I don't understand it at all. Basically what you are saying is that you think that there should be a morality or ethics test to be allowed to compete? For example, are you going to let dead beat dads compete? What about a white collar tax cheat? In both those people, they did harm to others...possibly great irreparable harm. So should WTC/USAT develop a criteria on whether you can compete based on whether you are a good citizen or not?


It really seems like people don't want Lance to compete b/c they don't like him as a person. In many cases, people have said that they can understand/forgive the doping (everyone was doing it), but what he did to all those poor people....what a terrible person....ban him!! But that's the thing, there's no rule in the sport about keeping a person out b/c they are a scumbag...and I really hope that they don't go down that road. It's not the WTC/USAT, etc job to be judge and jury on someone's ethics. If they want to keep him out by enforcing a ban for doping by USADA or WADA...fine. But if he gets his ban lifted and can race, keeping him out b/c of the lying, cheating, threatening, bullying, etc is BS.


why is it so hard for you to understand people who don't want the most notorious cheater of all time banned from races? people who make relatively tiny transgressions in the sport -- like bandit races, cut courses or swap numbers -- receive lifetime bans. it may come as news to you but there actually is a rule in the sport about keeping someone out who has been involved in a massive cheating ring and it's a lifetime ban. it really is shocking to me that people still are this clueless about the issues at hand here.


What part of the highlighted text don't you understand?

i don't understand the "if they want" part. there is no "wanting" because USADA and WADA control and it is completely irrelevant what USAT "wants" when he is banned by USADA and WADA. now if lance decides to squeal on the UCI and Nike and USADA/WADA decide to shorten his ban, then USAT still can ban him under this USAT rule:

3.6 Penalties and Prohibited Conduct. Penalties, including disqualification and suspension, may be imposed upon race participants and/or members of USA Triathlon who violate any of these Competitive Rules or who solicit, encourage, or assist a violation of these Rules. Except as otherwise provided in these Rules, the specific penalty to be imposed in any given case shall depend on the nature and severity of the violation as determined by the Head Referee or USA Triathlon. The following penalties may be imposed for a violation of these Rules:
a. Assessment of a time penalty
b. Disqualification
c. Written reprimand or censure
d. Monetary fines
e. Suspension from membership in USA Triathlon (including retroactive suspension), and
f. Permanent expulsion from USA Triathlon

you might not like it (and the same goes for the other poster) but it is entirely in USAT's power and rules to ban lance for life because they think he is a [fill in the blank with a derogatory word].
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [mag900] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That that could keep him from racing pro how? Knowing Lance he would probably simply find a way to get his pro card from another country. USAT is not the only body that licenses professionals.

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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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i was just responding to the clueless guy who gave me a link to USAT's rules and asked me to point him to the rule that would empower USAT to ban lance for being a dick if USADA/WADA no longer have him suspended. you do bring up an interesting idea though and i don't know what the answer is if lance were to go to, say, qatar, to get a pro card and then tried to race 70.3 and ironman races.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [mag900] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mag900 wrote:
i was just responding to the clueless guy who gave me a link to USAT's rules and asked me to point him to the rule that would empower USAT to ban lance for being a dick if USADA/WADA no longer have him suspended. you do bring up an interesting idea though and i don't know what the answer is if lance were to go to, say, qatar, to get a pro card and then tried to race 70.3 and ironman races.


I'm sorry...but I think you are mistaken about who is clueless. The section you reference - 3.6, applies to the rules laid out in section 3 - Competitive rules. More specifically, section 3.4. Doping is covered in sec 8. There is no mention in section 3 on being a scumbag in everyday life.


Further, you state above that there is a rule that covers cheating rings...and that the penalty is a lifetime ban. First off, I've yet to find this rule...and so far, you haven't been able to supply it either. Second, assuming sec 3.6 were to apply (a massive stretch), the phrase saying "The following penalties may be imposed for a violation of these rules:" does not automatically warrant that a lifetime ban is the penalty. Again, it is plainly clear here that your personal feelings about Lance are what is driving your desire to thwart the rules that have been laid out.
Quote Reply
Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [mag900] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mag900 wrote:
i was just responding to the clueless guy who gave me a link to USAT's rules and asked me to point him to the rule that would empower USAT to ban lance for being a dick if USADA/WADA no longer have him suspended. you do bring up an interesting idea though and i don't know what the answer is if lance were to go to, say, qatar, to get a pro card and then tried to race 70.3 and ironman races.

Qatar is a WADA signatory. If he were to go that route, he would have to find a country that is not a WADA signatory, and then I don't know if the license would be recognized anyway.

http://www.wada-ama.org/...List-of-signatories/

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Twotter wrote:
mag900 wrote:
i was just responding to the clueless guy who gave me a link to USAT's rules and asked me to point him to the rule that would empower USAT to ban lance for being a dick if USADA/WADA no longer have him suspended. you do bring up an interesting idea though and i don't know what the answer is if lance were to go to, say, qatar, to get a pro card and then tried to race 70.3 and ironman races.


I'm sorry...but I think you are mistaken about who is clueless. The section you reference - 3.6, applies to the rules laid out in section 3 - Competitive rules. More specifically, section 3.4. Doping is covered in sec 8. There is no mention in section 3 on being a scumbag in everyday life.


Further, you state above that there is a rule that covers cheating rings...and that the penalty is a lifetime ban. First off, I've yet to find this rule...and so far, you haven't been able to supply it either. Second, assuming sec 3.6 were to apply (a massive stretch), the phrase saying "The following penalties may be imposed for a violation of these rules:" does not automatically warrant that a lifetime ban is the penalty. Again, it is plainly clear here that your personal feelings about Lance are what is driving your desire to thwart the rules that have been laid out.

no, i believe that you also fall into the clueless category. the section i cited above, Section 3.6, covers Competitive Rules, which contains the following provision:

3.3 General Conduct. At or during an event, or while at the event site, all participants must:
a. Act in compliance with these Competitive Rules;
b. Conduct themselves in a manner that is not offensive in any way to fellow participants, spectators, officials or volunteers and is considered reasonable and acceptable in the community;
c. Treat all participants, officials, volunteers and spectators with fairness, respect and courtesy;

i think it's fair to say that showing up to races last year doped was both offensive and not acceptable in the community.

there isn't a specific rule that says "if you are a member of a drug ring, you will be banned for life" as USAT mostly punts to USADA/WADA for PED punishment. however, it's not that much of a stretch to use 3.3(b) again as justification to keep him out. you are correct in pointing out that all of this is discretionary but so is nearly everything so i don't know what your point is ("the specific penalty to be imposed in any given case shall depend on the nature and severity of the violation as determined by the Head Referee or USA Triathlon").

all of this is moot because WTC is salivating to get lance back so it can fully maximize making money off him. if USADA/WTC lift his ban, he's going to be back.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Twotter wrote:
mag900 wrote:
i was just responding to the clueless guy who gave me a link to USAT's rules and asked me to point him to the rule that would empower USAT to ban lance for being a dick if USADA/WADA no longer have him suspended. you do bring up an interesting idea though and i don't know what the answer is if lance were to go to, say, qatar, to get a pro card and then tried to race 70.3 and ironman races.


I'm sorry...but I think you are mistaken about who is clueless. The section you reference - 3.6, applies to the rules laid out in section 3 - Competitive rules. More specifically, section 3.4. Doping is covered in sec 8. There is no mention in section 3 on being a scumbag in everyday life.


Further, you state above that there is a rule that covers cheating rings...and that the penalty is a lifetime ban. First off, I've yet to find this rule...and so far, you haven't been able to supply it either. Second, assuming sec 3.6 were to apply (a massive stretch), the phrase saying "The following penalties may be imposed for a violation of these rules:" does not automatically warrant that a lifetime ban is the penalty. Again, it is plainly clear here that your personal feelings about Lance are what is driving your desire to thwart the rules that have been laid out.

Section 1:
Quote:
1.1 Scope. These Competitive Rules ("Rules") are adopted by USA Triathlon and govern the administration of all races and events sanctioned by USA Triathlon. These Rules are binding on all members of USA Triathlon and all persons who enter or participate in any event sanctioned by USA Triathlon.

Section 8:
Quote:
8.3 Adoption of USADA Protocol. Pursuant to USOC Bylaws Chapter XXIII, Section 2(G), the conducting of doping controls of members and the management of positive, elevated test results and/or other doping violations for USA Triathlon members (post October 2, 2000) is the responsibility of the USADA. Any inconsistent provisions with USADA's full responsibility of anti-doping matters including the testing, adjudication/results management or sanctioning of doping violations, elsewhere in USA Triathlon Competitive Rules are hereby superceded. USA Triathlon will, without further process, enforce and publish any sanction communicated to USA Triathlon by the USADA resulting from adjudication of a doping violation under the USADA Protocol.

So, the first section states anybody toeing the line is subject to the rules, and 8.3 states that they adhere to USADA sanctions, and in the case of conflict, the USAT rules are superseded by the USADA rules. (Huh. Just noticed USAT misspelled superseded.)

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [mag900] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mag900 wrote:
Twotter wrote:
mag900 wrote:
i was just responding to the clueless guy who gave me a link to USAT's rules and asked me to point him to the rule that would empower USAT to ban lance for being a dick if USADA/WADA no longer have him suspended. you do bring up an interesting idea though and i don't know what the answer is if lance were to go to, say, qatar, to get a pro card and then tried to race 70.3 and ironman races.


I'm sorry...but I think you are mistaken about who is clueless. The section you reference - 3.6, applies to the rules laid out in section 3 - Competitive rules. More specifically, section 3.4. Doping is covered in sec 8. There is no mention in section 3 on being a scumbag in everyday life.


Further, you state above that there is a rule that covers cheating rings...and that the penalty is a lifetime ban. First off, I've yet to find this rule...and so far, you haven't been able to supply it either. Second, assuming sec 3.6 were to apply (a massive stretch), the phrase saying "The following penalties may be imposed for a violation of these rules:" does not automatically warrant that a lifetime ban is the penalty. Again, it is plainly clear here that your personal feelings about Lance are what is driving your desire to thwart the rules that have been laid out.


no, i believe that you also fall into the clueless category. the section i cited above, Section 3.6, covers Competitive Rules, which contains the following provision:

3.3 General Conduct. At or during an event, or while at the event site, all participants must:
a. Act in compliance with these Competitive Rules;
b. Conduct themselves in a manner that is not offensive in any way to fellow participants, spectators, officials or volunteers and is considered reasonable and acceptable in the community;
c. Treat all participants, officials, volunteers and spectators with fairness, respect and courtesy;

i think it's fair to say that showing up to races last year doped was both offensive and not acceptable in the community.

there isn't a specific rule that says "if you are a member of a drug ring, you will be banned for life" as USAT mostly punts to USADA/WADA for PED punishment. however, it's not that much of a stretch to use 3.3(b) again as justification to keep him out. you are correct in pointing out that all of this is discretionary but so is nearly everything so i don't know what your point is ("the specific penalty to be imposed in any given case shall depend on the nature and severity of the violation as determined by the Head Referee or USA Triathlon").

all of this is moot because WTC is salivating to get lance back so it can fully maximize making money off him. if USADA/WTC lift his ban, he's going to be back.

No , I don't think so. That seems a pretty broad interpretation to me. This seems almost like a code of conduct clause and the doping would fall into its own separate category
Quote Reply
Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [mag900] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mag900 wrote:
no, i believe that you also fall into the clueless category. the section i cited above, Section 3.6, covers Competitive Rules, which contains the following provision:

3.3 General Conduct. At or during an event, or while at the event site, all participants must:
a. Act in compliance with these Competitive Rules;
b. Conduct themselves in a manner that is not offensive in any way to fellow participants, spectators, officials or volunteers and is considered reasonable and acceptable in the community;
c. Treat all participants, officials, volunteers and spectators with fairness, respect and courtesy;

i think it's fair to say that showing up to races last year doped was both offensive and not acceptable in the community.

there isn't a specific rule that says "if you are a member of a drug ring, you will be banned for life" as USAT mostly punts to USADA/WADA for PED punishment. however, it's not that much of a stretch to use 3.3(b) again as justification to keep him out. you are correct in pointing out that all of this is discretionary but so is nearly everything so i don't know what your point is ("the specific penalty to be imposed in any given case shall depend on the nature and severity of the violation as determined by the Head Referee or USA Triathlon").

all of this is moot because WTC is salivating to get lance back so it can fully maximize making money off him. if USADA/WTC lift his ban, he's going to be back.

I really think that is about the most absurd way to approach that rule. First, I'm very curious as to how you know he was doped for those races. Don't give me..."well, once a cheater, always a cheater"...I'm talking actual proof. Give me one positive test {sic}, one witness, anything from anyone that isn't just pure speculation. You can assume all you want...as you clearly have, but until you can provide anything...even the tiniest shred of proof...I don't see how that you could even loosely apply that rule. Even then...it is more than a stretch.

My whole point on all of this doesn't necessarily even have to do with Lance. I don't want to see people being excluded or banned b/c someone decides to make up rules based on their personal morals and what they personally find as disgusting or not. When you do that, you go down a road that invites abuse. Who is in charge or making a morality call? What say you if that person thinks that anyone who has had an abortion, for example, as a disgusting person and doesn't want anyone who has had one racing or in the sport...boom lifetime ban. Are we going to start having character screenings as part of the registration process?

I get it that you don't want him racing b/c you think he's a terrible person and that you think it would give a black eye to the sport. Fine, you are welcome to your opinion. But trying to exclude someone based on speculation and a dislike of their character is not something that should be part of the rules.



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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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If the ban is kept up, will he get so desperate that he pulls a Ricco?
Last edited by: duncan: Jan 22, 13 11:48
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [duncan] [ In reply to ]
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duncan wrote:
If the ban is kept up, will he get so desperate that he pulls a Ricco?

... "I don’t think it's worth talking about. Ciao.”

Maybe Ricco should have been Lance's adviser.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
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Twotter wrote:
mag900 wrote:
no, i believe that you also fall into the clueless category. the section i cited above, Section 3.6, covers Competitive Rules, which contains the following provision:

3.3 General Conduct. At or during an event, or while at the event site, all participants must:
a. Act in compliance with these Competitive Rules;
b. Conduct themselves in a manner that is not offensive in any way to fellow participants, spectators, officials or volunteers and is considered reasonable and acceptable in the community;
c. Treat all participants, officials, volunteers and spectators with fairness, respect and courtesy;

i think it's fair to say that showing up to races last year doped was both offensive and not acceptable in the community.

there isn't a specific rule that says "if you are a member of a drug ring, you will be banned for life" as USAT mostly punts to USADA/WADA for PED punishment. however, it's not that much of a stretch to use 3.3(b) again as justification to keep him out. you are correct in pointing out that all of this is discretionary but so is nearly everything so i don't know what your point is ("the specific penalty to be imposed in any given case shall depend on the nature and severity of the violation as determined by the Head Referee or USA Triathlon").

all of this is moot because WTC is salivating to get lance back so it can fully maximize making money off him. if USADA/WTC lift his ban, he's going to be back.


I really think that is about the most absurd way to approach that rule. First, I'm very curious as to how you know he was doped for those races. Don't give me..."well, once a cheater, always a cheater"...I'm talking actual proof. Give me one positive test {sic}, one witness, anything from anyone that isn't just pure speculation. You can assume all you want...as you clearly have, but until you can provide anything...even the tiniest shred of proof...I don't see how that you could even loosely apply that rule. Even then...it is more than a stretch.

My whole point on all of this doesn't necessarily even have to do with Lance. I don't want to see people being excluded or banned b/c someone decides to make up rules based on their personal morals and what they personally find as disgusting or not. When you do that, you go down a road that invites abuse. Who is in charge or making a morality call? What say you if that person thinks that anyone who has had an abortion, for example, as a disgusting person and doesn't want anyone who has had one racing or in the sport...boom lifetime ban. Are we going to start having character screenings as part of the registration process?

I get it that you don't want him racing b/c you think he's a terrible person and that you think it would give a black eye to the sport. Fine, you are welcome to your opinion. But trying to exclude someone based on speculation and a dislike of their character is not something that should be part of the rules.




well congratulations on proclaiming that as the most absurd way to approach the rule. well i think that your response is absurd. i didn't write the rules but they pretty clearly give the USAT broad discretion to ban people it wants to ban. is that a shock to you?

why are you asking me to "prove" to you that he was doping last year when you know that neither i nor anyone else can (yet)? however, we do know that he was doping until 2005 (even lance admits that) and that there is a mountain of evidence that he was doping through 2010 (that biological passport is a pisser). it's not that much of a stretch to conclude that, at the very least, he had residual benefits from his 2010 doping in 2012 (and that's assuming that he actually did stop, which i highly doubt).

i absolutely want people banned for life who blatantly cheat for years. this has nothing to do with morals and everything to do with the rules and attempting to clean up sports once and for all. what also is absurd is that you are trying to spin this into a morality call when morality has nothing to do with it. comparing a lifetime ban of the biggest drug cheat of all time to the banning of someone who had an abortion is beyond absurd. all cheating is immoral so i don't understand why you are even bringing this up. you also are wrong thinking that i want him banned for life because he is a bad guy (even though i do think he is a bad guy). he could be a saint but someone who so wantonly breaks the rules for so long and who has had such an unfair advantage for so long should be banned for life in all WADA sports regardless of how good or bad the person is.

the reason why any of this is an issue is that it's quite clear that lance is going to do everything he possibly can (ie, buy people off) to try and get the USADA/WADA ban reduced to 8 years so he can race again. USADA has banned him for life because it deemed his prior acts so bad that that was the just punishment (and note that he refused to defend himself). how is it possibly a good thing if he then can go ahead and buy people off to get his ban reduced to 8 years? it's not.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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I get a kick out of comments like this from the article:

"Armstrong has won two 70.3 (half ironman distance) triathlons and it is understood he sees the sport as the best way to make money given his sponsors have deserted him. "

Lance's motivations are hard to discern, but I highly doubt that he believes the piddly sponsorship money associated with being a pro triathlete is going to provide him long-term meaningful income.

Gary Clendenin (aka, "The Kid" or "G-man")
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Twotter wrote:
mag900 wrote:
no, i believe that you also fall into the clueless category. the section i cited above, Section 3.6, covers Competitive Rules, which contains the following provision:

3.3 General Conduct. At or during an event, or while at the event site, all participants must:
a. Act in compliance with these Competitive Rules;
b. Conduct themselves in a manner that is not offensive in any way to fellow participants, spectators, officials or volunteers and is considered reasonable and acceptable in the community;
c. Treat all participants, officials, volunteers and spectators with fairness, respect and courtesy;

i think it's fair to say that showing up to races last year doped was both offensive and not acceptable in the community.

there isn't a specific rule that says "if you are a member of a drug ring, you will be banned for life" as USAT mostly punts to USADA/WADA for PED punishment. however, it's not that much of a stretch to use 3.3(b) again as justification to keep him out. you are correct in pointing out that all of this is discretionary but so is nearly everything so i don't know what your point is ("the specific penalty to be imposed in any given case shall depend on the nature and severity of the violation as determined by the Head Referee or USA Triathlon").

all of this is moot because WTC is salivating to get lance back so it can fully maximize making money off him. if USADA/WTC lift his ban, he's going to be back.


My whole point on all of this doesn't necessarily even have to do with Lance. I don't want to see people being excluded or banned b/c someone decides to make up rules based on their personal morals and what they personally find as disgusting or not. When you do that, you go down a road that invites abuse. Who is in charge or making a morality call? What say you if that person thinks that anyone who has had an abortion, for example, as a disgusting person and doesn't want anyone who has had one racing or in the sport...boom lifetime ban. Are we going to start having character screenings as part of the registration process?

I get it that you don't want him racing b/c you think he's a terrible person and that you think it would give a black eye to the sport. Fine, you are welcome to your opinion. But trying to exclude someone based on speculation and a dislike of their character is not something that should be part of the rules.




It isn't. The rules that you two keep quoting over and over to each other cover IN RACE conduct. So your abortion example is patently stupid, unless someone is performing one in the middle of the race, in which case, yeah, I'd call that offensive. The statement is designed so that if you moon the officials in the race or do something equally stupid, they can ding you for it.

As far as mag900 writing about "Mostly punting to USADA", there is no mostly about it. USADA administers the testing protocols for USAT, and they (USADA) determine and administer penalties. If you get pulled aside after a race for testing (And yes, as a random AG athlete that is possible), it's USADA that is doing it, not USAT.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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I'm damned shocked WTC actually honored the usada/WADA and therefore usat ban. In fact from a business standpoint, I'm not really sure why it matters that they even use usat for sanctioning. They already have some of their own rules, so I actually applaud them for not caving to the easy route of getting lance into the races.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Garc] [ In reply to ]
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Lance is worth somewhere north of $100M... I doubt he cares about the money.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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mag900 wrote:

i absolutely want people banned for life who blatantly cheat for years. this has nothing to do with morals and everything to do with the rules and attempting to clean up sports once and for all. what also is absurd is that you are trying to spin this into a morality call when morality has nothing to do with it. comparing a lifetime ban of the biggest drug cheat of all time to the banning of someone who had an abortion is beyond absurd. all cheating is immoral so i don't understand why you are even bringing this up. you also are wrong thinking that i want him banned for life because he is a bad guy (even though i do think he is a bad guy). he could be a saint but someone who so wantonly breaks the rules for so long and who has had such an unfair advantage for so long should be banned for life in all WADA sports regardless of how good or bad the person is.


Ok, but the original statement that I commented on...that you then attacked me for was "Personally (and I have mentioned this before), I would not like to see him in races, whether they are races I compete in or not. Not so much because he doped, but because of his continuous lying, cheating, threathning, bullying, ..."

So if you want him banned for doping...fine. I really don't have a problem with your opinion that he should be banned for life for that. There is certainly enough evidence and now an admission that would warrant it. But my original post, that you took issue with, was that I've seen many posts and comments from people saying that they didn't want him competing, not b/c of the doping, but b/c of the lying, bullying, etc. I took issue with that approach to instituting a ban on an athlete b/c of actions that are not part of the rules.

If his ban is lifted/reduced by USADA/WADA...there is no rule, nor should there be a rule that prevents him from competing. I think what you are saying is that you want USAT to ignore the precedent of "time served" and it's current rules, and issue their own ban. So, in other words, "we don't care if USADA and WADA say he can race, we as a WADA signatory have decided that we will be our own judge and jury on this matter"?
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PeteDin206] [ In reply to ]
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PeteDin206 wrote:
Lance is worth somewhere north of $100M... I doubt he cares about the money.

He has sold his private jet and his ranch and is basically having a fire sale on everything.

I'd say stashing his $$$ for all the law suits that are coming.

Sure he will never be poor but he is going to be required to be very creative with his funds going forward.

As for the comments by someone saying prove to me that current pros aren't using, we sadly for you the case is prove to us they are.

You know like they did with Lance and others.

Rhymenocerus wrote:
I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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Devlin wrote:
It isn't. The rules that you two keep quoting over and over to each other cover IN RACE conduct. So your abortion example is patently stupid, unless someone is performing one in the middle of the race, in which case, yeah, I'd call that offensive. The statement is designed so that if you moon the officials in the race or do something equally stupid, they can ding you for it.

I agree with you...that is what I said when the whole sec 3.6 was brought up. That it doesn't apply and that trying to apply that rule here was not only wrong but a complete stretch. My whole point was that there is no rule that excludes him from competing on the basis that he lied/threatened/bullied for years, or was a scumbag, or ran a doping ring. Hence why I've been saying that I don't want a rule like that.
Quote Reply
Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Garc] [ In reply to ]
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Garc wrote:
I get a kick out of comments like this from the article:

"Armstrong has won two 70.3 (half ironman distance) triathlons and it is understood he sees the sport as the best way to make money given his sponsors have deserted him. "

Lance's motivations are hard to discern, but I highly doubt that he believes the piddly sponsorship money associated with being a pro triathlete is going to provide him long-term meaningful income.


Assumingly it is a way to get Nike money back. That ain't piddly
Last edited by: SayHey Kid: Jan 22, 13 13:14
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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PJC wrote:
PeteDin206 wrote:
Lance is worth somewhere north of $100M... I doubt he cares about the money.


He has sold his private jet and his ranch and is basically having a fire sale on everything.

Sweet! How do I get my hands on some of that gently used high end tri-gear? Do you think he'll post it on the classifieds here or should I look on Craig's List?

"For sale: top of the line, custom built, Trek Speed Concept 9 in black with yellow trim. Includes black banana hammock, used once."
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PJC] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PJC wrote:
PeteDin206 wrote:
Lance is worth somewhere north of $100M... I doubt he cares about the money.


He has sold his private jet and his ranch and is basically having a fire sale on everything.

I'd say stashing his $$$ for all the law suits that are coming.

Sure he will never be poor but he is going to be required to be very creative with his funds going forward.

As for the comments by someone saying prove to me that current pros aren't using, we sadly for you the case is prove to us they are.

You know like they did with Lance and others.

Dang. I knew he was wealthy, but I didn't know he was private-jet wealthy. That's crazy rich if he's really worth $100M.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
Dang. I knew he was wealthy, but I didn't know he was private-jet wealthy. That's crazy rich if he's really worth $100M.

I thought the plane was either Livestrong or Mellow Johnny's, I didn't think it was his personal one.

I could easily be wrong, though.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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I always thought it was livestrong's that he just used for "travel". IE, kinda like company golf outings. He could race in livestrong gear and that technically would allow him to use their plane. But as of now with him being out of LS, not sure how legal/kosher something like that is.

But yeah I always thought the jet was livestrong's, or atleast made them foot the expenses.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
I always thought it was livestrong's that he just used for "travel". IE, kinda like company golf outings. He could race in livestrong gear and that technically would allow him to use their plane. But as of now with him being out of LS, not sure how legal/kosher something like that is.

But yeah I always thought the jet was livestrong's, or atleast made them foot the expenses.

Owned by Mellow Johnny's Aviation LLC. It isn't owned or an asset of Livestrong.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [Twotter] [ In reply to ]
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Twotter wrote:
BDoughtie wrote:
I always thought it was livestrong's that he just used for "travel". IE, kinda like company golf outings. He could race in livestrong gear and that technically would allow him to use their plane. But as of now with him being out of LS, not sure how legal/kosher something like that is.

But yeah I always thought the jet was livestrong's, or atleast made them foot the expenses.


Owned by Mellow Johnny's Aviation LLC. It isn't owned or an asset of Livestrong.

Jeez - either way, I can't believe a bike brand has enough capital to own a jet!
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
But yeah I always thought the jet was livestrong's, or atleast made them foot the expenses.

He passes it on to the causes he's working for. When he spoke at Pelotonia, he got a 100k netjets credit (which i assume was used for maintence and fuel for his plane). I doubt he made them pay for most of the expenses, but I think since he only flies MJA, Im sure he submitted some portion of his receipts, because that's the kind of guy he is. He made guys on the USPS team skip bonuses (documented in tylers book and other sources) to help pay for drugs, instead of taking it out of his share. So while the LS financials dont break it out, it certainly wouldnt be out of character for him.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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And just a note, I wasn't implying that was wrong. That's pretty standard practice, if your are working a race/venue for a company/brand 99.9% of the time said company will pay for those expenses.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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"I don't want those people in our sport."

Good to hear her opinion. Thank god this isn't the Soviet Union and we don't have to listen to her.
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Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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IMO it seems like he values titles and racing more than anything. If money drives him, I don't think he would have confessed. This has opened him up to losing possibly most of his net worth, or at least a big part of it.

I expect him to rat out everyone he can in his attempt to get a reduction on his lifetime ban, which is why, IMO, he won't admit he doped during his comeback. He's hoping he gets 8 years dating back to 2005.
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Post deleted by Steve-oH! [ In reply to ]
Re: Triathlon Australia CEO & Pete Jacobs say NO LANCE in our Sport (Paper) [atasic] [ In reply to ]
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While I support your no second chance sentiment for drug cheats, I am reminded of the death penalty in many States and Countries. We can all cite the many bad people that have done horrendous things and they deserve to die.

HOWEVER, there have been far too many times when people are on death row, or even been executed and found to be innocent, that I think that a blanket "never allowed to return to sport, for even one infraction" is a bit harsh and unrealistic.

For example. Alberto Contador. The amount of clenbuterol in his system was really low and the reason for the drug is slightly plausible. (not likely but plausible) I don't think he should be banned for life, like long time systematic drug cheat LA. I believe a 2 year suspension is suitable in those kind of cases.

Do you really want the death penalty for a speeding infraction on the highway? No, that would be too extreme. Let the punishment fit the crime. One time drug conviction, sure, 2 years seems reasonable. Second offence? death penalty is probably warranted in that case.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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