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Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes
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I recently received my pair of full custom cycling shoes. There are countless reviews online about cycling components and clothing, but very little information on full custom footwear. In my opinion, shoes are one of the more important contact points when it comes to cycling performance, so I wanted to provide some information on the process of buying the shoes as well as the benefits I’ve experienced since I got them almost 2 months ago.
The cliff notes: These are extremely lightweight shoes that feel stiffer than anything else I’ve tried. They are so comfortable you don’t notice you have shoes on, and the performance is unreal. I’ve DEMOLISHED my 5 sec and 30 sec power records since I started using these shoes. A more "tri-friendly" pair is on the way, once Dave figures out a way to put the shoe on quicker than a conventional tri shoe.

Full version:

The shoes I’m using are made by Simmons Racing (http://www.simmonscyclingshoes.com), a custom shop in Cape Coral Florida. The owner (Dave Simmons) and his wife have been making inline skates since 1991, but are relatively new to the cycling market. Every shoe is made by Dave and his wife from start to finish. None of the labor is outsourced. They are handmade in the USA.

Dave’s goal is to build the most comfortable, lightest, and stiffest shoe possible. He’s built plenty of shoes (in adult sizes) under 100 grams. The upper and sole are the same piece of carbon fiber, so it is stiff like nothing else you’ve ever felt.

The process starts with a cast of your foot. He has a video on his website to show you how to cast yourself, or you can schedule an appointment with him at one of the events he is attending. I flew out to Fort Wayne, Indiana to have Dave do the cast.

Your foot is wrapped in plaster and as the plaster begins to harden he has you put your weight on your feet to make sure the bottoms of your feet are formed well into the cast. He does one foot at a time and the process takes about 30-45 minutes. When he gets back to his shop he creates a replica of your foot using the cast. He builds the shoe around the replica of your foot so that the shoe is a perfect fit and conforms to every toe indentation and every bump on your foot. This isn’t just a custom insole or a heat mouldable shoe. The entire shoe is basically vacuum-formed around your foot as it is being built. It is the type of fit that no lacing system, straps, insoles, etc can provide you with. It is hard to describe, but when you put it on your foot you can almost forget it is there because it fits so well and it is so light.




You can customize a whole lot more than the fit. If you under or over pronate, Dave can build the shoe to compensate. There is no need to purchase wedges because the canting is built into the boot at whatever level you need.

The shoe is made for whatever cleat system you are using. I’ve talked to a lot of speedplay users who are limited on their footwear choices because they don’t want to use an adapter plate.

Cleat mounting is also fully customizable. You get to decide where the mounting block is on the bottom. If you think you’d rather have your cleats mounted further back or further forward than your current shoes allow, let Dave know and he can make it that way. Most stock shoes are designed so that the toes curve up. During your casting you can let Dave know exactly how much you want your toes to curve up. If you aren’t sure how much your toes should point up or where your mounting block should be, don’t be overwhelmed. If you don’t have a preference, Dave can build the shoes similar to what you are currently using.


The “lacing” system is up for you to decide on. You can get as few or as many buckles as you want. He can do laces if you want laces. If there is another lacing system out there you prefer (like a Boa type) he can do that too. I went with a single buckle. It is interesting that the custom fit is so good that I can run the shoes without the straps and not notice a difference until I get up to sprint.

I’m still realizing the full potential of these shoes. I knew they would be good based on the inline skating boots I’ve gotten through Dave in the past, but my expectations were pretty quickly surpassed. On the first ride I could tell this shoe was a step ahead in the evolution process of cycling shoes. Remember the first time you ditched toe clips for clipless pedals and you had that “Aha” moment where you realized this is how cycling shoes should work? Well, I had this moment all over again. Since the top of the shoe (the whole upper) is the made out of carbon fiber, the entire structure of the shoe is stiff. Your entire foot feels connected to the cranks, not just your sole. It is impossible to put the feeling into words, but if you are ever racing in Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Missouri, or Kansas and have around a size 12 (47) foot, I’d love for you to take them for a spin so you can feel the difference for yourself.

They are noticeably lighter than anything else I’ve owned (Mavic, Sidi, Specialized, and Shimano).

I haven’t used aerolab or the chung method to test the aerodynamics of these yet, but I’m willing to bet the cda is lower than anything else I own, even if I don’t have shoe covers on these and I do on the others. Since it is an exact mould of your foot, I can’t see how the frontal area could be reduced any more. The buckle system I chose adds some drag, so if aerodynamics is a big concern for you, you may consider a different style of buckle, but I like these for the ease of on the fly adjustment.

There really isn’t a need to really crank down the strap because the shoe fits so well. When every square millimeter of the shoe is hugging your foot, you don’t need to go crazy with the straps. Think of trying to tighten something with 1 bolt vs using 4. With 1 bolt you have more fatigue at the spot where the bolt is located. If you use 4, the pressure is distributed over a larger area and that distribution will keep you from putting too much pressure on one spot. These Simmons shoes are like the ladder. You don’t get hot spots while riding because the tightness of the shoe isn’t just located along the straps, it is all over.

So how does that relate to performance? At first I thought I was just getting a benefit in the first 6 to 10 pedal strokes and then everything went back to normal, but it was more than that. I could tell my jump was much stronger, and the powertap confirmed it. Pretty much any day of the week I can go out and put out a higher 5 sec power number than my previous record with my Mavic Zxelliums.

I thought that was the extent of it, but then I looked at some other sprints I had done in the mavics and noticed that my 15 sec power was higher on the new shoes as well. Last night I did a 30 second effort and blew my old 30 sec record out of the water. It wasn’t even close, and oddly I didn’t even feel great riding last night.


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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [sxevegan] [ In reply to ]
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They look nice but is there any ventilation at all?

Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [Lazy Ben] [ In reply to ]
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They are much cooler (temp wise) than they look. That was one of my first thought to. Some air does get in under the flap. I did some rides over 70 miles while in Kona and my feet never got hot and my socks were dry when I took them off.

Dave lives in Florida and hasn't had issues with heat. It gets hot here in Oklahoma, so I'll know for sure next summer. Dave said he could make some vents in them if my feet start getting too hot next summer, but he didn't think I'd need them.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [sxevegan] [ In reply to ]
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Fair enough, I just looked up the pricing so the vent issue is irrelevant anyway :)

Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [sxevegan] [ In reply to ]
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They appear to be good-looking and well-designed shoes.

But I would have one major hesitation about such expensive custom shoes: your feet are a not as static as we are led to believe. Running, mileage, muscle tone, body weight, lots of things can affect your foot size, shape, and geometry. And, depending on your lifestyle, it can change in a remarkably short time. Can these shoes be easily modified to change size or shape?

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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I know that his skate boots are heat moldable. You can heat up the boots and push out any hot spots. I assume the cycling shoes are the same way.

He can also stretch the toe area out quite a bit. He did it on a pair of my speedskates. I sent them overnight to him. The day he got them he stretched them and sent them back to me overnight.

I'm not sure he can make them smaller though.

I was a little worried about what would happen if my feet started to get swollen, but it hasn't been an issue, even after 8 hrs on an airplane. You can just leave the buckle loose and it gives your foot a little extra room to expand.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [sxevegan] [ In reply to ]
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Freaking awesomely mega cool. It's like Judist Priest cool.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [sxevegan] [ In reply to ]
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look great but wow on the price

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I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO
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Last edited by: milesthedog: Jan 27, 16 16:38
Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [sxevegan] [ In reply to ]
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Wow... $1600 for a cycling shoe.... It looks cool. Maybe it really does improve 30 sec power but as a triathlete I care only about FTP. Hard to imagine it will help that at all. As for aero... well, I might have to pass on that advantage. It would probably be more than negated by the difficulty of putting them on or pedaling with your feet on top of them anyway.

-------------
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www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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$1900. and I also don't care about my 30sec power. I didn't buy these for extra watts. I'll train better to hit that 375w FTP this season... and I'll do it in comfort with no foot pain due to the shoes. For me, the purchase of these shoes was all about comfort.

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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Ah. Foot pain is not something I have to deal with on my bike, thankfully. My off-the-shelf mid-priced shoes are super-comfy for me.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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IN. SANE.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Also, my sworks were shimmed and the Simmons don't require any shimming; the shimming was compensating for the sworks last not supporting my arch, even with the Lake insoles. Note: I don't have any foot abnormalities and my arches are neither flat or super high.

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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
OK, did some riding on these shoes. Very different and it is a very good different. I've become so accustomed to the feeling of soft leather wrapping my feet and the bunching feeling of my toes signaling a good fit. The Simmons fit is pretty much static across and around the foot, with the BOA providing a bit more tightness around the uppers. There is much more room in the toe box and the shoe fits each toe and metatarsal perfectly with room for foot swelling. The biggest difference is how there is not pressure under the ball of the foot. There is no nerve pressure, no pressure on the metatarsals, rigid support on the sides (like Bont), but the full custom lowers is what makes these special. I'm looking forward to having these for years to come. The price was justified in my mind, with Sworks costing $500 now-a-days and those only lasting 3-4 seasons... I have a friend on L.U.S.T shoes from 2000 and they're still going strong. This original thread is what really influenced my decision to go with Simmons; Thanks!

Here are some photos comparing the shape/last of the Simmons to the '09 Sworks. note: I have heat-moldable Lake insoles in the Sworks and they really were great and I highly recommend them, even over Bont, which only heat molds the upper unless you go the full moldable $1k option.... I felt at $1k, I should go all in with Simmons, the cleat plate being a big draw for me since it would prevent any chance of the cleat bolts causing pressure on the ball of my foot. There is carbon under the aluminum cleat plate on the Simmons; there are holes in the carbon that are visible under the insole of the Bonts and other carbon soled shoes and that was a deal-breaker for me.



So the difference is mainly 1. the shape of the toe box (foot shaped, instead of tapered to squish your toes together) and the 2. "toe spring", of the amount that the toe is "up", and also the heel is also elevated in most conventional shoes.

In the following link is a description of a 4 step process that any Joe with normal household tools can do to "hack" their regular cycling hoes to try to get them to feel better and be healthier for their feet: http://naturalfootgear.com/...cycling-shoe-surgery

I would add a 5th technique: taking a hammer to the rigid toe cap in the shoe, which may allow for a wider but flatter toe box, that may fit a normal human foot better.

I have been unable to find (I admit I haven't been looking very hard) any actual scientific reason for the current shape of commercially available cycling shoes.

Toe spring is something that (I think, but if you are a cobbler or shoe maker, please feel free to chime in) may have been put into walking shoes a hundred years ago, when shoe soles were made of inflexible materials, to allow some kind of walking in them. I think cycling shoe makers in the the early 20th century just copied what cobblers making walking shoes were doing, without any consideration of cycling mechanics. I have found toe spring in a cycling shoe to be very uncomfortable, causing pain, hot spots, and making it very difficult to use my feet for walking/running activities afterwards (n=10 pairs over 24 years, brands=4 Shimano, NW, Bont, Vittoria).

The commercial shoes with the least amount of toe spring currently are Northwaves, but even they have some. What I notice (and love) about the custom shoes you have is the completely flat sole without toe spring or an elevated heel. I however, like many, cannot justify the cost.

Maybe one day commercial shoe makers will actually start making shoes that work with, and not against, the normal human foot. Until then, I have manual and power tools and endless hacking drive to try to make them "fit".

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [sxevegan] [ In reply to ]
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Custom shoes sure have gone up in price.

I agree though that they are often worth it. I've got 2 different width & size feet and my feet are high volume. with wide a forefoot but narrow heels.

I can say that the $650 I spent for full custom D2 shoes almost 8 years ago was the best investment I ever made in cycling equipment.

I'd love to give these a try..once my D2's die....which I hope is never.

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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
Wow... $1600 for a cycling shoe.... It looks cool. Maybe it really does improve 30 sec power but as a triathlete I care only about FTP. Hard to imagine it will help that at all. As for aero... well, I might have to pass on that advantage. It would probably be more than negated by the difficulty of putting them on or pedaling with your feet on top of them anyway.

I think $1600 if you can have a lifetime of superior comfort cycling is worthwhile. I have easily spent more than that amount in saddles alone in the last 5 years, forget about how much I spend on wheels and frames. The amount I spent on helmets+clothing is closing in on that total for the past 5 years, so in that context it does not seem bad. Having said that, often a $100 low end tri shoes with lots of inside padding seems to suit me better than "higher end shoes" that are stiffer and harder throughout....I keep coming back to the cheaper models because they have more give all around. If this has no give AND if fits like a glove with no nerve or metatarsel hot spots, could be a good thing.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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OneGoodLeg wrote:
IN. SANE.

I will add stupidly insane. When you have more money then you know what to do with. Just as I think I about seen it all, I get amazed. $10000 bikes are ok compared to this. That is how I comfort myself. :)
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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DrTriKat wrote:

I have been unable to find (I admit I haven't been looking very hard) any actual scientific reason for the current shape of commercially available cycling shoes.

Available molds. That's it and that's all.
If you have thoughts, feel free to e-mail me at robert dot pickels at ucdenver dot edu.
This is part of a larger conversation that is being had.

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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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xtrpickels wrote:
DrTriKat wrote:


I have been unable to find (I admit I haven't been looking very hard) any actual scientific reason for the current shape of commercially available cycling shoes.


Available molds. That's it and that's all.
If you have thoughts, feel free to e-mail me at robert dot pickels at ucdenver dot edu.
This is part of a larger conversation that is being had.

To expand on that, shoes have traditionally been built around molds called lasts (see pic below). Companies can build all sorts of lasts, but tend toward the "conventional" looking rounded/tapered toebox mostly for aesthetics. For example, I love the wide toebox in my Altra running shoes, but it does make them ugly as sin compared to a set of Nikes. Simmons is basically making a custom last from a casting of the user's feet. They also (IMO) have done a great job making the shoes look nice and not too "earth shoe".



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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [ck21trhc] [ In reply to ]
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Expensive sure, but I bet if you'd be surprised at the actual costs that went into a quality custom made item like this. Labor, materials, general overhead, capital equipment cost, custom service.

There is an business opportunity if you think you could make the same product at 50% price. ;)
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [Pantelones] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for posting this. I now know what my next splurge will be. Amazing.

For those that know feet really well, how would a shoe like this help with a bone spur/bunion on the top of the foot?

Now how am I supposed to go put on my normal $300 shoes and ride having just read up on these. It's almost not worth it.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
[

Firewood.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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How thick are these shoes? What is the final weight of them? Also, do they give you the option to be able to place the cleat hardware where you want (for example a midfoot cleat position)? Is there anything on the inside of the shoes to seperate you from the resin/CF? Do you go barefoot in them or wear socks?
Last edited by: 2011ironorbea: Jan 28, 16 9:25
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [atasic] [ In reply to ]
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atasic wrote:
OneGoodLeg wrote:
IN. SANE.


I will add stupidly insane. When you have more money then you know what to do with. Just as I think I about seen it all, I get amazed. $10000 bikes are ok compared to this. That is how I comfort myself. :)

Cost of the orthopedic surgeon re-aligning your toes after decades of deforming them in traditional shoes: priceless. (Well, actually more like $20,000).

Actually, the cost of these carbon custom cycling shoes is about the same that an orthotist would charge for a pair of custom molded foot/ankle braces, that are made using similar technology and craftsmanship. So I think the price is fair. The price would come down, if more people would do it and ditch commercially available unhealthy shoes that destroy their feet.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [2011ironorbea] [ In reply to ]
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I think you meant to ask someone who actually has or is having a pair made.

But I think they weigh very little, and you can have them put the cleat mounts wherever you want.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [Pantelones] [ In reply to ]
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yes 2011 and back again!!!!
thanks for making my week

Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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how do u doing a flying mount?

Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, I just click reply on the last post I see, didnt realize that it says which post you clicked the reply on until you said that, thought that only mattered if you hit the quote
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [ck21trhc] [ In reply to ]
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update below: going to have some tri specific Simmons shoes made. design detailed explained below.



Played with that yesterday: with a little practice, I found I could get in to them quicker than my Sworks. Though, I never preferred a "flying" mount with the Sworks, but rather a: run along side the bike, slip one forefoot in, slide over the saddle, slip the other forefoot in, pedal and then get feet totally in, pedal and then tighten BOA's. I always had to be careful of the tongue in the Sworks and the Simmons will take some dexterity using the index finger to pull up the top layer of carbon and the thumb the bottom layer.... if you're looking for super fast shoe entry, these aren't for you! But rather, something like what Ryf is using would be wise, or any tri specific shoe. I do a lot of road riding, 70.3 and I may consider not using the Simmons for the collegiate season I'm thinking of doing (doctoral student); it depends on how good I get with them.

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Last edited by: milesthedog: Mar 7, 16 18:57
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [2011ironorbea] [ In reply to ]
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They are stupid light, but honestly, not much lighter than the very light 2015 Sworks road. They have much lower stack height (see previous photos). I can wear cycling socks and will do so in training and road races, barefoot for tri's. I have a thin felt liner glued in on top of the carbon sole. These custom shoes would be ideal for someone with foot abnormalities. I have no abnormalities, but I do get nerve pain that affects my running when I'm putting in long rides, especially when I'm mixing long climbs where the torque is higher on my feet. I wear Altra run shoes and can't go back to narrow toe box shoes.

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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [2011ironorbea] [ In reply to ]
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I did choose where to put the cleat. Though, the aluminum plate on the sole has two mounting positions and provides lots of adjustment. Visually, it looks like the cleats on my Simmons are further forward than my Sworks, but when I put them on, I feel the cleat pressure under my metatarsals and nerves in the Sworks, but behind my metatarsals with the Simmons and with little to no flex in the sole compared to the Sworks: there are no hot spots or nerve pressure. I agree that they are expensive, but I found them worth it, just as I found my Dash saddle paired with Desoto 400mile bibs worth it, and a bike fit that, while having substantial saddle to bar drop, leaves my hands relatively unweighted, worth it: comfort for me equals more and better riding.

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Last edited by: milesthedog: Jan 28, 16 11:48
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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DrTriKat wrote:
atasic wrote:
OneGoodLeg wrote:
IN. SANE.


I will add stupidly insane. When you have more money then you know what to do with. Just as I think I about seen it all, I get amazed. $10000 bikes are ok compared to this. That is how I comfort myself. :)


Cost of the orthopedic surgeon re-aligning your toes after decades of deforming them in traditional shoes: priceless. (Well, actually more like $20,000).

Actually, the cost of these carbon custom cycling shoes is about the same that an orthotist would charge for a pair of custom molded foot/ankle braces, that are made using similar technology and craftsmanship. So I think the price is fair. The price would come down, if more people would do it and ditch commercially available unhealthy shoes that destroy their feet.

I just spent $400 for some orthotics (they are a bit "special") but overall not that more than most orthotics. The advantage of orthotics, is that they can be moved from shoe to shoe. The disadvantage is that orthotics do not control the shape of the sides and top of the shoe (if you really need all that and in my case I may). I am looking at getting some EE Bont heat moldable and slide my orthotics in though. This total custom path might be the next option.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [ck21trhc] [ In reply to ]
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ck21trhc wrote:
how do u doing a flying mount?

Take about 7 extra seconds in T1 to put your shoes on, run out. After the mount line you throw a leg over, clip in, and go.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [salesguy] [ In reply to ]
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salesguy wrote:
Thanks for posting this. I now know what my next splurge will be. Amazing.

For those that know feet really well, how would a shoe like this help with a bone spur/bunion on the top of the foot?

Now how am I supposed to go put on my normal $300 shoes and ride having just read up on these. It's almost not worth it.

When Dave makes a cast of your foot, and can put some extra space around a bunion or bone spur, and that should remove all of the pressure from that area. Many speed skaters get weird bumps on their feet from their other skates, and Dave is able to make a custom that takes the pressure off those areas, and eventually (in the case of the speed skater bump, but I'm not sure on bone spurs/bunions) they go away completely in most cases a few months after you fix the problem.

I still have the same shoes from the time I originally made this thread. I've crashed them a few times, wear them in mud and gravel, cold weather or hot weather, rain, snow, etc and they barely have any signs of wear. I have no doubt that these will last me a decade with daily use. My teammates, who I don't think are as hard on equipment as me, have to buy new shoes every year. In the long run, I'm on a better performing shoe for the same (or less) cost.
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Last edited by: milesthedog: Jan 30, 16 7:21
Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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The above Simmons single shoe is a size 10.5 US/43 EU. The shimano cleats and hardware weight 36g for each shoe, so each of my Simmoms shoes are 220g. Sxvegan's comments on the durability of his shoes is great to hear.

The below image is for an Sworks size 42 EU without cleats.



Bont Vaypors in 42EU are 277g (one shoe) without cleats, and Giro Prologut SLX in 42EU are 199g (one shoe) without cleats.

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Last edited by: milesthedog: Jan 30, 16 9:56
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the info
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
DrTriKat wrote:
atasic wrote:
OneGoodLeg wrote:
IN. SANE.


I will add stupidly insane. When you have more money then you know what to do with. Just as I think I about seen it all, I get amazed. $10000 bikes are ok compared to this. That is how I comfort myself. :)


Cost of the orthopedic surgeon re-aligning your toes after decades of deforming them in traditional shoes: priceless. (Well, actually more like $20,000).

Actually, the cost of these carbon custom cycling shoes is about the same that an orthotist would charge for a pair of custom molded foot/ankle braces, that are made using similar technology and craftsmanship. So I think the price is fair. The price would come down, if more people would do it and ditch commercially available unhealthy shoes that destroy their feet.


I just spent $400 for some orthotics (they are a bit "special") but overall not that more than most orthotics. The advantage of orthotics, is that they can be moved from shoe to shoe. The disadvantage is that orthotics do not control the shape of the sides and top of the shoe (if you really need all that and in my case I may). I am looking at getting some EE Bont heat moldable and slide my orthotics in though. This total custom path might be the next option.

I was thinking about fully custom molded orthoses, which require either a plaster cast, or a laser cast and possibly additional pressure mapping of the individuals foot/ankle/leg, and then custom fabrication out of plastic, fiberglass, or carbon fiber, and then custom fitting by an orthotist.

Bonts are nice if you don't my the extreme amounts of toe spring they all seem to have (BTW I have found that their sizing tool ends you up with a shoe that is at least 1/2 size too small). I have now tried 3 models of Bonts and they just don't feel right.

I am currently riding in a hacked pair of Northwaves (a full size bigger than my normal size) that are extremely ill fitting and the tall toe box lets my foot wonder around and lose tons of power (while still causing a little sideways pressure that I don't like) My older Northwaves were more "foot" shaped, but are a little too narrow and cause foot numbness after about 40 minutes.

For the money I have spent trying to find a pair of commercially available cycling shoes that 1. don't destroy my toes 2. make it possible to run on my feet afterwards and 3. don't cause my foot to go numb, I could have had at least 2 pairs of custom shoes made.....

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Here's a note I sent to a friend who had some questions; the response also provides an update on my Simmons shoes experience:

I tried Bonts, but it is the lowers being moldable that really counts. For $1k, you can get full custom Bonts, but it is a self mold. I had Dave Simmons do my mold as I'm not trained in that regard. Also, what separates the Simmons, to me, is the cleat mount. Bonts have cleat bolt holes that go all the way through the carbon sole, increasing the likelihood of the rider developing hot spots due to these bolts. Leonard Zinn has written that this is the primary cause of hot spots in cycling shoes. My experience with these Simmons is that the weight is so evenly dispersed, that I just forget about my feet, even up HC and Cat 1 climbs. That's huge for me

Big thing to note is that they are durable. I'll have this for 10+ years. the price is easily justified and the ride quality is incomparable; it's like going from riding on flat pedals with sneakers to clip-ins with Swork shoes: that big of a difference, and to think that compared to the Simmons, S-works feel like they're riddled with pressure points. I will say that the Lake heat-moldable insert does improve a stock shoe by quite a bit and it's only $100.

Again, Simmons aren't super tri friendly, but I do most of my training on the road and having gotten use to getting into Sworks in tri races, I'll be able to get into the Simmons with only a tad bit more dexterity required.

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Last edited by: milesthedog: Feb 7, 16 15:25
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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DrTriKat wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
DrTriKat wrote:
atasic wrote:
OneGoodLeg wrote:
IN. SANE.


I will add stupidly insane. When you have more money then you know what to do with. Just as I think I about seen it all, I get amazed. $10000 bikes are ok compared to this. That is how I comfort myself. :)


Cost of the orthopedic surgeon re-aligning your toes after decades of deforming them in traditional shoes: priceless. (Well, actually more like $20,000).

Actually, the cost of these carbon custom cycling shoes is about the same that an orthotist would charge for a pair of custom molded foot/ankle braces, that are made using similar technology and craftsmanship. So I think the price is fair. The price would come down, if more people would do it and ditch commercially available unhealthy shoes that destroy their feet.


I just spent $400 for some orthotics (they are a bit "special") but overall not that more than most orthotics. The advantage of orthotics, is that they can be moved from shoe to shoe. The disadvantage is that orthotics do not control the shape of the sides and top of the shoe (if you really need all that and in my case I may). I am looking at getting some EE Bont heat moldable and slide my orthotics in though. This total custom path might be the next option.


I was thinking about fully custom molded orthoses, which require either a plaster cast, or a laser cast and possibly additional pressure mapping of the individuals foot/ankle/leg, and then custom fabrication out of plastic, fiberglass, or carbon fiber, and then custom fitting by an orthotist.

Bonts are nice if you don't my the extreme amounts of toe spring they all seem to have (BTW I have found that their sizing tool ends you up with a shoe that is at least 1/2 size too small). I have now tried 3 models of Bonts and they just don't feel right.

I am currently riding in a hacked pair of Northwaves (a full size bigger than my normal size) that are extremely ill fitting and the tall toe box lets my foot wonder around and lose tons of power (while still causing a little sideways pressure that I don't like) My older Northwaves were more "foot" shaped, but are a little too narrow and cause foot numbness after about 40 minutes.

For the money I have spent trying to find a pair of commercially available cycling shoes that 1. don't destroy my toes 2. make it possible to run on my feet afterwards and 3. don't cause my foot to go numb, I could have had at least 2 pairs of custom shoes made.....

One point to note. You lose close to zero power in slightly larger shoes with your feet floating around a bit vs snug fitting shoes. I put this to the test with duathlon pedals in running shoes vs a variety of Specialized and Louis Garneau models and no shoes had an impact on my power. Pretty well any shoe you'll generate the same amount of power, it's just a question of comfort.

If I was a pursuit rider in the Olympics or a sprinter in a grand tour, then OK, or even doing a jump in my local criterium. But for tris/steady state riding, you're better off going with a slightly bigger shoe with a custom orthotic.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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My power has not increased because of my shoes (unfortunately!). But, my comfort is at a level I did not think was possible for a cycling shoe. My knee alignment is spot on... with no wedges. I do think I will benefit from being able to ride better later into rides/races when hot spots in previous shoes surely reduced the power I was producing (it hurt to put out too much torque!). I know to some folks this may sound ludicrous, but after riding in these shoes, I feel $1.9k is a deal. I guess I see it as, if you're riding a P5, R5, Sworks frame, a C'dale Evo or Black Inc., Madone or Speed Concept, or Felt IA, Scott Plasma.... or if you own a power meter, these shoes are right in line. I feel it's just logical.... But I understand why folks would balk at the price: it's unorthodox.

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Last edited by: milesthedog: Mar 7, 16 19:02
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
My power has not increased because of my shoes (unfortunately!). But, my comfort is at a level I did not think was possible for a cycling shoe. My knee alignment is spot on... with no wedges. I do think I will benefit from being able to ride better later into rides/races when hot spots in previous shoes surely reduced the power I was producing (it hurt to put out too much torque!). I know to some folks this may sound ludicrous, but after riding in these shoes, I feel $1.9k is a deal. I guess I see it as, if you're riding a P5, R5, Sworks frame, a C'dale Evo or Black Inc., Madone or Speed Concept, or Felt IA, Scott Plasma.... or if you own a power meter, these shoes are right in line. I feel it's just logical.... But I understand why folks would balk at the price: it's unorthodox.

OK, here's more of a strategic business rant that relates to Simmons, other companies, and price:

I would love to see the companies Dash, AX-Lightness, THM, EE and Simmons Racing (shoes) under one umbrella company. Dash and AX would collaborate on wheels (wide, tubeless, zipp-nsw-quality braking surface) and Dash would take over all wheels and saddle responsibilites. AX would only focus on frames (no brakes or components). THM would drop their brakes and only focus on cranks, forks, seatposts and would take over AX's stems and handlebars. EE would provide brakes. Simmons would work with THM, AX and Dash to create a production line for his full custom Mojo shoes. I would also like to see Simmons work with Dash to create a new product: custom saddles created from personal molds; I've never seen this done, but I've dropped Dave Simmons an email about giving this idea a go (Dash never responded to an inquiry I made over a year ago). I've been on a Dash tri.7 on my road bike for 5 years and love it, but after using the Simmons shoes and feeling like the shoes have disappeared from under me allowing me to forget about my feet with the weight distributed evenly across my whole foot even up HC climbs, my standards for comfort have been raised, and I would like to see this standards for comfort carried over to my saddle.

AX has already brought their frame prices down to the level of C'dale Black Inc, S-works and less than the new Madone, so a bit more collaboration on production could bring prices down a tad bit more, allowing these products to retain their niche status while removing the possible negative stigma associated with products that live within the weight-weenie domain. And, more importantly, this group would mimic SRAM when it was just a burgeoning parent company in the late 90's: that move by SRAM allowed them to market to a wider audience and move away from being this niche chain company that also made twist shift better than Grip Shift (for mountain bikes). Would TriRig fit neatly under this umbrella? They would bring pedals and aerobars. I like Nick's brakes, but the dual post EE with the aero cover is areo, provides Duraace quality braking, and is stupid light. That's hard to beat.

I agree with your points that while power may not increse if comfort does over a race, it is worth it and as a result power COULD also increase later due to lack of hot spots. As a minimum, if compensation due to hot spots etc declines then long term this is a good investment. I can really see the value of these in speed skating and also if an XC ski boot could be made in this manner (although FIS would ban it because all XC ski boots used in competition have to be commercially available...at least that was the rule a few years back). In XC ski and speed skating, where you have to dynamically balance, this would have a really big advantage. Less so in cycling, but it still seems like a worthwhile place to spend money. Money on contact points is never really a waste...shoes, pedals, bars, saddles.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Simmons primary business is in speed skating (roller blade style). I actually met up with him at a speed skating competition to have my feet molded and I'd say 70% of the kids there were in Simmons shoes, a lot of those using a stock last.

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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
... where you have to dynamically balance, this would have a really big advantage. Less so in cycling, but it still seems like a worthwhile place to spend money. Money on contact points is never really a waste...shoes, pedals, bars, saddles.

I have been thinking about why more professional cyclists don't have custom shoes, seems Hansen is the only one (check out Hanseeno....)? Thing is, when you have had your feet mold into traditional cycling footwear from an early age, and cycling is the only thing you do, it may not matter much. For triathletes who also run, I can no longer accept the idea of having my toes squished and pointed up and my foot be numb.

As far as wearing larger size cycling shoes, the ability to adjust the fasteners for a smaller foot (I know they don't have to be tight, but just so your foot is not "swimming" inside), and the placement of the cleat mounts relatively farther forward the larger the shoe, becomes a limiting factor. I am currently in a shoe 1 size larger, and I cannot imagine going any larger because of those 2 issues.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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I have a Simmons custom saddle on the way. It's a first iteration. It is made of Kevlar/Graphite and fits right over my Dash Tri.7 with the alterations I requested. I've been on the Tri.7 since 2011 and I love it, but I need some changes. So, I'll ride this saddle cover and send feedback. He has a mold back at his place and we'll keep tweaking it and when I'm set, Dave will cut the rails off of a Dash Strike I sent him (the Strike's narrow front caused the same issues as the front of a traditional saddle). He'll then create a carbon upper and epoxy some thick leather over it with no foam, just thick leather.


Here's a video of the process: https://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be

Next will be a set of tri shoes. The road shoes are awesome, but not good for quick transitions. See the image below. There are two overlapping layers of carbon across the top of the shoe. The thought is to remove the majority of the under layer of carbon and just have the upper layer of carbon. This upper level of carbon would have a horizontal cut just before the toes of the shoe, so the top layer can pull completely to the side. The carbon of this top layer will be oriented so that the resting position of this carbon top layer is sprung open, leaving the inside of the shoe easy to slide into. A Boa closure will be used to pull the 'sprung' top layer down over my foot once I've gotten my foot into the shoes.




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Last edited by: milesthedog: Mar 7, 16 19:04
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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 I know nothing about intellectual property, but it seems super un-chill to literally use another company's product as a mold, make some tweaks, and then sell it for a shitton of money.

And my thought on the custom shoes is they sound fantastic. But if your race is short enough that five seconds getting in and out of them is going to change your spot on the podium, I would think you could find some off-the-shelf tri shoes that would get the job done.

...Says the jealous hater who rides a regular old Dash saddle and some crappy run-of-the-mill S-works road shoes.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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one off saddle, not production. And, the one-off is really just a combo of the Dash Tri.7 (length and material - stiff carbon; ISM plastic saddles sag), ISM Attack (channel and front - channel prevents chamois getting wedged into the Dash opening, which causes discomfort and seriously limits shorts options) and ISM Podium (wider for the tailbones - both the Tri.7 and the Attack are a bit too narrow for my sitbones. The Dash Strike had too much material for the sitbone 'wings' and the 'wings' were too convexed). The saddle is after-market. Now, if it was put into production, I would agree with you, but Dave Simmons doesn't make production products.

As for the shoes, good point. Here's the difference: The coordination needed to get into the road shoe with one hand with the shoes attached to the pedals is a bit too much, especially since the heel is really tight and as as stiff as can be. I have to give myself 5sec for each shoe and preferably sitting on in a chair/bench. The other option is to put them on and run in them to mount the bike... yeah right, I'm not running in $2k shoes! Why not just use stock shoes? because if I'm doing 70.3's, I want the comfort and I want to use the same basic shoe design that I'm doing all of my training in, otherwise, I'll be changing my saddle height to adjust for the super low stack height of the shoes. Yes, it's a bit ridiculous, I agree, but that's the nature of after-market purchases in general.

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Last edited by: milesthedog: Mar 7, 16 18:48
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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and note, it only seems ridiculous until you've worn custom shoes or ridden with a custom saddle. There's no going back and as for buyer's-remorse, my interest in the tri shoes should show that there's no remorse, I'm sold and sticking to custom shoes. I anticipate my road shoes lasting 10 years, and if I get a second set for triathlon, these two set of shoes will last the rest of the cycling life. I'm also having the saddle made with a pretty robust carbon layup with some high quality, thick leather leather stretched over it, so I also anticipate the saddle, along with the shoes, sticking with me for a very long time.

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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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There are some major differences between this prototype and any single Dash or ISM saddle. See below image comparisons.


Here's a video of the process: https://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be

So, the Simmons custom saddle has the length of the Dash Tri.7 (see bottom pic comparing shorter Tri.7 to the Tri.9 - the same length as all of the Dash saddle outlines shown below). The Simmons has the 'wings' of the Strike, but starting further back to prevent thigh rub, and not as wide; it has the opening of the ISM Road for getting/leaning really far forward, like when attacking off the front. The rear of the Simmons saddle is signifcantly more narrow than the ISM Road and only about 12mm wider than the rear of the Tri.7, though I wonder if the final iteration will have a more gradual sweep back for the wings to ensure thigh clearance - I'm basing this off of a youtube video; will know a lot more once it's mounted in a couple of days. I anticipate the opening on the front of the Simmons to remain the same, but the outer edges on the front 2cm of the saddle to come in about 2mm each, narrowing the 'noses' of the saddle while not narrowing the opening between the 'noses'. The added channel on this Simmons saddle shell would work really well with Dash's combo seatpost, just drill some holes to bolt onto the seatpost.... though, I probably need the cushion of the rails, riding a 1st gen Scott Foil and all.


<--- two more views of the Simmons saddle prototype

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Last edited by: milesthedog: Mar 8, 16 7:05
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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I am making shoes. They are not going to be as pretty as Simmons, but they should be fully functional. It will take a while to finish them, but here is what I have so far.

I first made a bunch of plaster cloth molds of my feet in various configurations (negative). I decided to make the shoes around a mold of my feet where I am wearing toe spacers, to make sure my toes have enough room. Once the negative dried, I put it in a bucket of sand, and filled it with liquid plaster of paris. Once this set, I peeled the negative off the positive. I used wall repair joint compound to make some adjustments to the positive, sanded it to the shape I liked. Then I laid the carbon fiber around the plaster of paris positive. In retrospect, I should have painted the positive with a non-stick layer to make it easier to remove the dried plaster from the shoe at the end. Vacuum bagging was tricky because not until the last (8th?) bag did I manage to make one that did not leak. Practice makes perfect! I plan to use oxalic acid and baking soda to remove the last of the plaster from the shoe, then sand/finish, put a polyurethane coating around it, glue some fabric/fleece around the edges (I don't plan to line the inside, no need IMO), and glue on a single velcro strap on the top.

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I laid 2 layers of CF before attaching the cleat holder. I used epoxy dough to attach it.
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I laid 2 more layers on top of the cleat holders.
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
Last edited by: DrTriKat: Mar 12, 16 19:50
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome! Keep us up to date :)
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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I am in the same process, but not as far along as I am piecing everything together bit by bit. Where did you find the baseplate for the cleats? I have only found one or two and they only have one mounting option. I noticed Simmons uses an aluminum plate where it gives you multiple position options, I was trying to find something similar to that but I guess they probably make those in house.

I am also planning on adding othe mounting locations to add pieces to the bottom to make it easier to walk in. I will also be lining the whole inside of the shoe and possibly adding drainage/air vents to them as well.

Are you planning on going sockless or are you wearing socks? If your wearing them, did you account for them in the molding process? Also did you mold your foot using STS casting socks? Weighted or unweighted on the foot.

I found a good site that has a good price on the casting socks and I did my first mold with weight placed on the foot after standing on a foam mat. I am now at the point of finishing the mold off (adding some to it to account for socks and felt liner), and also waiting on CF to arrive and my new vacuum pump and bagging supplies
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [2011ironorbea] [ In reply to ]
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2011ironorbea wrote:
I am in the same process, but not as far along as I am piecing everything together bit by bit. Where did you find the baseplate for the cleats? I have only found one or two and they only have one mounting option. I noticed Simmons uses an aluminum plate where it gives you multiple position options, I was trying to find something similar to that but I guess they probably make those in house.

I am also planning on adding othe mounting locations to add pieces to the bottom to make it easier to walk in. I will also be lining the whole inside of the shoe and possibly adding drainage/air vents to them as well.

Are you planning on going sockless or are you wearing socks? If your wearing them, did you account for them in the molding process? Also did you mold your foot using STS casting socks? Weighted or unweighted on the foot.

I found a good site that has a good price on the casting socks and I did my first mold with weight placed on the foot after standing on a foam mat. I am now at the point of finishing the mold off (adding some to it to account for socks and felt liner), and also waiting on CF to arrive and my new vacuum pump and bagging supplies

I molded my feet barefoot with regular plaster cast wrap (its like $8 for an 8" wide roll that is enough for both of my feet). Problem is because toes are so easily compressed, no matter how I tried to keep it loose around the toes, the positive ended up with toes too crowded. So I put my toe spacers on, and then wrapped around that. I did what Simmons and other companies recommend: sitting in a stool, with my foot on a semi-soft surface (folded towel), partially weighing the foot down, making sure kneecap was over 2nd toe and leg as much straight up/down as I could eyeball. From what I can tell from trying the shoes on, it feels pretty good in the toe box. I plan to wear them sockless. I will probably drill some vent holes in the bottoms.

The baseplate is the plastic adapter plate that came with my Speedplay pedals. I figured it is better to try to epoxy plastic to the CF, and not worry about any metal- resin-CF interface.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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I love those cleat mounts! Awesome!

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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Update.

The pics don't do these justice! It is hard to take pictures of slightly lumpy and very shiny things. I can put them on by pinching each side and spreading a little and force my feet in, takes about 3 seconds per shoe. They are quite secure and need a bit of pushing at the heel to get off. I am not sure it will need any straps attached, they are quite secure as it is. I am waiting for new cleats, and will try it without straps. I like how simple they are. 224grams/pair without cleats.





Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
Last edited by: DrTriKat: Mar 22, 16 20:24
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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This is really cool, Are you using Correct Toes toe spacers in these?


DrTriKat wrote:
Update.

The pics don't do these justice! It is hard to take pictures of slightly lumpy and very shiny things. I can put them on by pinching each side and spreading a little and force my feet in, takes about 3 seconds per shoe. They are quite secure and need a bit of pushing at the heel to get off, so the velcro I will put on the front will be more to prevent my feet from sliding forward.



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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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Very cool. I'm tempted to try my own hand at building something similar.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I used toe spacers when casting my feet. Then I filed down the last to a smooth shape, removing the outlines of the toe spacers, and also removing the pinky toe (so in the shoe, my pinky toe is around where the last toe spacer would be). This way the shoes fit nice but not too tight without squishing my toes (but not with toe spacers on).

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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Looking at them a lot closer, your foot doesnt pull out of them on the up stroke or do you mostly mash?

With mine, I am thinking about having them come up about an inch or so above where the toes begin, still have some overlap on the top part of the foot and have a strap across the top. My hope is to vary the thickness of the layers to get some flexibility out of the top portion but still be stiff enough to hold my foot solidly in place.

I guess my big thing is I have been working a lot on using my upstroke and I would worry my feet would pull from the shoe with that little over the top part, maybe I am wrong though.

They do look good though, and im sure with some practice you could make them look a lot closer to the professionally made shoes, I just hope mine turn out just as good.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [2011ironorbea] [ In reply to ]
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I have tried them a couple times the last two days. Can't ride too much coz my shoulder is hurt.

I do not "pull" on the upstroke, but only push. The mid part of the foot would pull up out of the shoe if I did, but just pushing it stays in very solid. You can do the "mud sweep" at the bottom of the stroke and the heel stays in solid. I found that I needed to cut the front (and sides) down this far to be able to shimmy my feet in without too much pain/effort. The sides and front are 2 CF layers thick, and are likely too rigid. The sole is 2 layers on both sides of the cleat mount plate (4 layers total), and it feels very rigid and good power transfer.


My foot was sliding too much forward while riding and my 3-4th toes jammed up against the front (my other 3 toes were very happy!) So today I stuck some skateboard tape on the inside and this helps a lot from preventing foot sliding forward. It is slightly more difficult to put them on because now that part of the sole is "sticky", but the ride quality is much improved. No strap for now (haven't thought of a clever way of attaching one yet).

Mods I would do if I made another pair: keep the sole 4 layers thick, probably use 3 layers in the sole between the foot and cleat holder, and 1 layer over the cleat holder, use only 1 layer around the sides/heel/toe box and then could maybe make it come up higher in the front and still get into it, and mount the cleat holder farther out lateral (to allow for a narrower Q factor).




Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
Last edited by: DrTriKat: Mar 25, 16 20:18
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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what kind of CF did you use? (weight, strand count, etc)
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [2011ironorbea] [ In reply to ]
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2011ironorbea wrote:
what kind of CF did you use? (weight, strand count, etc)
I do not have the slightest clue.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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DrTriKat wrote:
2011ironorbea wrote:
what kind of CF did you use? (weight, strand count, etc)
I do not have the slightest clue.

Where did you get it from?
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [2011ironorbea] [ In reply to ]
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2011ironorbea wrote:
DrTriKat wrote:
2011ironorbea wrote:
what kind of CF did you use? (weight, strand count, etc)

I do not have the slightest clue.


Where did you get it from?

Some from Amazon, some from LeapTech/iLLStreet on the interwebs.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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They should have told you the fabric weight and strand count
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [2011ironorbea] [ In reply to ]
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Weight: 5.7osy
Weave: 2x2 Twill Carbon Fiber
Tow Size: 3K
Thickness: .010"

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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DrTriKat wrote:
Weight: 5.7osy
Weave: 2x2 Twill Carbon Fiber
Tow Size: 3K
Thickness: .010"
Pretty much what I was planning on using, maybe I was planning was a bit overkill
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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I think it's cool what you are doing.

Did you consider cutting the opening a bit so you can get your foot in easier, and making a molded carbon piece that goes over the top of your foot? You could hing it on one side with flexible material and use velcro or a ratchet to cinch it.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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I can get it on in 2 sec (but need two hands).
I haven't yet thought of a clever way to attach a top strap.
For now, I have put a couple of strips of skateboard tape into the sole, and they do a fair job of not letting my feet slide too far forward.
There is a little pressure on the tips of the 4th toes as I ride, but this is a good trade off of the 1. squished together toes (especially the big toe) 2. turf toe (pain base of the big toe from the upwards toe position due to the toe spring) and 3. foot numbness that I have always gotten in regular bike shoes. I have not noticed any big gain or loss of power by switching to them (I have done 3 rides around 45 mins each so far in them on the trainer).

They are sweaty on the soles, and I need to drill some vent holes in them.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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DrTriKat wrote:
I can get it on in 2 sec (but need two hands).
I haven't yet thought of a clever way to attach a top strap.
For now, I have put a couple of strips of skateboard tape into the sole, and they do a fair job of not letting my feet slide too far forward.
There is a little pressure on the tips of the 4th toes as I ride, but this is a good trade off of the 1. squished together toes (especially the big toe) 2. turf toe (pain base of the big toe from the upwards toe position due to the toe spring) and 3. foot numbness that I have always gotten in regular bike shoes. I have not noticed any big gain or loss of power by switching to them (I have done 3 rides around 45 mins each so far in them on the trainer).

They are sweaty on the soles, and I need to drill some vent holes in them.

Looks like you did a pretty good job, and something I might have to attempt

Any suggestions you would make or things you would do differently? I have worked with fiberglass before but never carbon fiber or a vacuum pump, looks like it would just take some practice on smaller projects to start.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't yet thought of a clever way to attach a top strap.

I envision the "strap" as a molded carbon piece, not too thick or rigid. A flexible "hinge" would connect this to the sole.
Last edited by: rruff: Apr 8, 16 10:23
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
I haven't yet thought of a clever way to attach a top strap.

I envision the "strap" as a molded carbon piece, not too thick or rigid. A flexible "hinge" would connect this to the sole.

Have you thought about having a hard molded carbon fine piece that matches the middle and using boa straps to hold it in place? The boa wires would hold it loosely and then you tighten it when your foot is in
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [140.6sj] [ In reply to ]
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I suppose that would work.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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Are your plaster feet destroyed after one set? Seems like you would need to ruin them to get the shoes off.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
Are your plaster feet destroyed after one set? Seems like you would need to ruin them to get the shoes off.

Yes.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [140.6sj] [ In reply to ]
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140.6sj wrote:
rruff wrote:
I haven't yet thought of a clever way to attach a top strap.

I envision the "strap" as a molded carbon piece, not too thick or rigid. A flexible "hinge" would connect this to the sole.


Have you thought about having a hard molded carbon fine piece that matches the middle and using boa straps to hold it in place? The boa wires would hold it loosely and then you tighten it when your foot is in

That would be nice, like the Hanseno's.

But that would require making another set of plaster feet.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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DrTriKat wrote:
140.6sj wrote:
rruff wrote:
I haven't yet thought of a clever way to attach a top strap.

I envision the "strap" as a molded carbon piece, not too thick or rigid. A flexible "hinge" would connect this to the sole.


Have you thought about having a hard molded carbon fine piece that matches the middle and using boa straps to hold it in place? The boa wires would hold it loosely and then you tighten it when your foot is in

That would be nice, like the Hanseno's.

But that would require making another set of plaster feet.

I'm sure you could make a temp mold and make it a little larger then needed and pad it
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [ In reply to ]
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So I tried my home made shoes in a local sprint 2 weeks ago (the strap-less version in earlier posts here). I left them clipped to the pedals in T1. Getting into them with cold wet bare feet was very easy. I don't know what if any performance effect they had on the bike (I don't race with power).

My legs felt GREAT coming off the bike and starting the run, unusual as I am a novice "runner". My feet were completely numb coming off the bike most likely from exposure (wet feet, uninsulated carbon fiber "shoes", 65F, 10% humidity, 45 minutes on the bike). My feet started waking up after about 15 - 20 minutes into the run, and by the end of the run I could tell my right big toe will be black.

I initially thought it must have banged against the front of the bike shoes while riding in aero with toes down (and no strap on shoes). So last week I attached straps to the shoes with rivets, and these prevent my feet from sliding forward. Time will tell if I like them or not.

Later I realized that my running shoes I raced in are a bit small and that my right big toe is a little longer than the left, so likely the black toe occurred as a combination of not feeling my feet while running and the big toe hitting the front of my running shoe.

Anyone out there making carbon shoes? How is it going? I am increasingly disappointed with the factory choices due to the narrow toe boxes (even the Bont's I'd have to heat mold the big toe area extensively), the massive toe spring, and the limited cleat placement fore-aft.




Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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I'm working on some shoes. Currently in a fiberglass prototype stage although I'll start the construction of the carbon ones soon. Weighing in at 79g before buckle(s) and cleat mounting stuff. Hoping for under 150g all in for the fibreglass and under 100g for the carbon version but a lot of that will depend on how much the cleat mounting hardware ends up weighing.


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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [CamW] [ In reply to ]
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Very nice!

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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Do you mind if I ask the method by which you carbon over the cleat plate and keep the bolt hole open/clean? Do you just put some dummy bolts in then work the fabric over/around them?
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [CamW] [ In reply to ]
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CamW wrote:
Do you mind if I ask the method by which you carbon over the cleat plate and keep the bolt hole open/clean? Do you just put some dummy bolts in then work the fabric over/around them?


Yes, I stuck some dummy bolts into it, gently moved the CF cloth around the bolts.

The tricky part is getting good vacuum around the bolts, and I was not able to do that very well, so after it all set, I unscrewed the bolts, and the bottom of the cleat surface was lifted up around the bolt holes (so not completely flat, which may not matter if you screw on a 3hole LOOk cleat, but does matter for a speedplay), so I sanded it down flat and then reapplied some epoxy by brush so keep the CF from fraying.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
Last edited by: DrTriKat: May 24, 16 11:58
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! That's pretty much how I planned to do it I think. I haven't actually ventured as far as vacuum forming yet, just stuck on plain wet layup and as such my fibre/resin ratios (and weight) are probably total junk. I actually have a vacuum pump which I'll bust out at some point although part of my method currently isn't compatible with vacuum so I'm not sure I can gain much without some modifications.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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Im going to try some M5 T-nuts and put them in a sliding frame, that way I can center the cleat where I want, whether in be mid foot or ball of the foot.

I was thinking of making these "sliding" channels and on a flat board first, making the bottom of the shoes flat and then gluing them in place and placing more layers of CF over top of the whole assembly to secure it into place better
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [sxevegan] [ In reply to ]
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Mine are on order and should be shipped out in 4 weeks or so. They will look just like the Team GB shoes that were revealed recently, except that the Boa closure will be in the typical spot on top of the shoe. Should last longer up there.

Can't wait to get my hand on, errr... feet in, them!

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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what made you go with a custom pair? do u have a hard time finding a pair that works

Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [ck21trhc] [ In reply to ]
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I have pretty narrow feet. I am on Sidi Wires now and even though Sidis run narrow, I have to really crank down the closures for efforts like sprints. And then when I do that, it creates hot spots and that doesn't feel so good. I've cranked down the heel retention screws on the Wires and my heel still moves around. Is it costing me power, at least in sprints? I don't know. But it's in my head. So I went with some customs. I actually started the process well before the Team GB shoes were announced and specified a design exactly like theirs (black on black, single Boa), except theirs they put on the sole for (presumably) better aerodynamics. It was nonetheless sorta cool to see the article come out and think "Yup, mine will be here in 4 weeks or so"

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [salesguy] [ In reply to ]
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I have been experimenting which making my own carbon shoes due to foot problems. The difference with the custom ones is that everything about your foot is taken into consideration, any bony lumps wide joint widths bunions etc..... this means you essentially get a sock like fit and there will be minimal rubbing or discomfort on any lumps you may have. The shoes however will therefore look like your feet so if cosmetic appearance is important then think again!!

I have really wide feet and struggle to get cycling shoes to fit. Being from the UK where no-one does this type of bespoke footwear I made a pair myself and haven't looked back since. Fully bespoke carbon racers!!

Being an orthotist its a doddle making them however I do sympathize with people trying to be active as possible who have problems with their feet.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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DrTriKat wrote:
I can get it on in 2 sec (but need two hands).
I haven't yet thought of a clever way to attach a top strap.
For now, I have put a couple of strips of skateboard tape into the sole, and they do a fair job of not letting my feet slide too far forward.
There is a little pressure on the tips of the 4th toes as I ride, but this is a good trade off of the 1. squished together toes (especially the big toe) 2. turf toe (pain base of the big toe from the upwards toe position due to the toe spring) and 3. foot numbness that I have always gotten in regular bike shoes. I have not noticed any big gain or loss of power by switching to them (I have done 3 rides around 45 mins each so far in them on the trainer).

They are sweaty on the soles, and I need to drill some vent holes in them.

I know the thread is old, but out of curiousity do you know how much the total cost to make the pair of shoes was?
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [tyme] [ In reply to ]
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I’m making my own shoes right now. I’ve got just under $2k into it for everything - vacuum pump, catch pot, valves, gauges, lots of carbon fiber, sand paper, mold materials, etc. I could make 15-20 pairs of shoes with the materials I’ve bought (which knowing myself I probably will). So that’s what I would have paid for a custom pair but wanted to do it on my own.

Carbon fiber is about $30/yd. epoxy is about $100. You could probably get it done under $500 depending how you went about it.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [tyme] [ In reply to ]
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Mine were $900. Considering it helped me solve a neuroma, it was easily the best $900 I’ve ever spent.

Mine were custom made with no heel for sprint/oly triathlons.
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Re: Review of my custom Simmons Racing cycling shoes [tyme] [ In reply to ]
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Hi, mine with all materials, new tools, etc cost around $500. Lots of time and elbow grease.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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