Triathlon Forum

Any wind tunnel data comparing the new shiv to the UCsillyI-approved shiv and/or any other fast tri bikes?

Why no 'bottle' bosses on the top tube for custom bolt-on bento pack storage options? These very handy and versatile top tube bolt bosses are right now already installed on the the trek speed concept, the new giant TT bikes, and will also be on some other upcoming (and very slippery) tri bikes.

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Cote and I are in a dealer presentation. But well answer a bunch of questions asap. Yes, there are quite a few graphs.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Mark is gonna wait to post the graph unto he has full time to explain it. Bottom line, it's fast...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Cost?

How does it fit you? It seems "short and tall", I thought you were a "long and low" guy.

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Suffer Well.

Can you use a disc cover?

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ErgDB Erg & PowerAgent workout generator | My blog - special thanks to Kiwami

Oh boy....here we go. The moment of truth if my shiv TT is going to be an orphan to its fatty younger brother....can't wait to see the info.

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I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
Powered by Accelerate 3

Well of course it is (I'd hope). We want to know how fast.

Waiting patiently.

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"One Line Robert"

yes a cost breakdown would be most excellent.

also what's the diff between the S-works and Pro modules (and expert/comp if any)? weight? i'm seeing 11r carbon vs. 10r carbon - what's that mean for the functionality of the bike?

When can we get one?

I'm shocked it took 10 replies before that question came up!

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Aero Tidbits posted on Instagram & Facebook

I heard that when the Venge was intruduced. I am still waiting

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http://cds-0.blogspot.com

Look at the specialized site. Has 4400 for the expert DA, 2800 for the frame set, 5100 for RED...awesome price points.

another question:

will the current nose-coneless shiv still be made/sold as the UCI- legal version?

Yes the Shiv TT Module (http://www.specialized.com/...1101&scname=Road) will continue to be sold as the UCI legal Time Trail Bike. The SHIV is a triathlon specific platform.


Clayton Anderson
Community and Social Media Specialist
Specialized Bicycle Components

what about the cost for the 'Comp Rival'? that's where a lot of age groupers will be looking.

The costs of all the models are currently on our website but the Comp Rival model is $3300.

I'm curious how this compares aero-wise to the original Shiv with the Nose-cone (since that's the one I have....)

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Fraser Bicycle | First Endurance

Check out my blog here | Twitter:@tmalis3

i actually don't see them on the website yet.
http://www.specialized.com/...amp;menuItemId=15757

Its been there for a few hours actually. try again.

Oh good....yet another thread about the new Specialized!

;-)

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"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

you're on the canadian website of specialized. Try the USA one

yeah, but this one's "official" (at least a Specialized guy started it!)

Would like to know if testing showed a center pull front brake system better than having the front cable exposed on the left front side of the head tube. I would venture a guess that having just the cable running down the front would have been more aero than having the bigger housing sitting out in the wind.

Also is there enough room when the bladder is in to also place maybe a tube, lever and Co2 inside?

Curious about cleaning of the water bladder, how easy is it too rinse or clean out. Having experienced food poisoning from a "bladder" (Camelbak) that wasn't fully clean, I'd be hesitant to use the system unless it was easy to clean, and clean fully.

1) What is the ratio of the aerobars?

2) When will stack/reach be posted on the web?

3) Why no nose cone?

4) Why not a center pull front brake?

5) Limits on rear wheel options?

6) Type of BBs on the 2 framesets?

7) Difference between the 2 framesets?

8) What makes the stem aero?

9) Both frames Di or electronic Ultegra compatible with internal wiring?

10) How does a downtube bottle affect drag?

Thanks,

Dave

daveinmammoth asked most of my questions, but I would also like to know

- Can you purchase the semi-integrated stem/bars seperate to add to the Pro frameset?

I already have the other components and the S-Works model is out of my price range.

Can you get it with 180mm cranks?

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__________________
http://www.nasvik.se

This is a great article on the new Shiv
infact, I am surprised how much more in-depth it is than the ST one
Given the intense interest this bike has gathered, would have thought ST would have prepared an article by now

http://www.tririg.com/...New_Specialized_Shiv

there is a drag chart in the photos in the link above comparing the new Shiv to the TT and nosecone versions plus the transition. Thankfully it looks like the 3 Shiv versions are close (as my Shiv TT is being built today!!)

Will I be able to run my Quarq BB30 cranks on this?

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"slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

It appears from the photos that there is a larger gap between the rear wheel and the seat tube and the front wheel and the down tube. Is that correct, and if so, what was the rationale for the increased gap?

Is the rear wheel "gap" simply a result of the vertical dropouts? And why where vertical dropouts chosen over the horizontal on the Shiv TT?

What does the S Works module including aerobar package weigh?

Looking at prices and specs, I would love to a version spec'd with ultegra or force.

Kinda hitting the price point/ performance level between the rival/apex and the dura ace version.

To be honest I'm more interested on how it handles than how it looks.....It's all very well designing super aero bikes for Kona,etc.... but most (European) Triathlon courses aren't straight or flat, they are hilly and technical.

What I want is a lightweight, aerodynamic TT bike that climbs, descents and corners like a high-end road bike.

Agreed. What athletes need are some tri bikes set up like this:

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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How much for the S-Works Module? Is a Di2 Module available? I see it shown as the complete bike but not as a module.

There are 7 options on the Specialized website (US site) with pricing, the S-Works Module (red or black) is $6,100 USD and a S-Works Di2 complete bike (black) is $12,700 USD. I'm not sure what you mean by 'Di2 Module', the modules (Shiv and Shiv TT) do not come with components just the frame, fork, bars, crank, seat post, and brakes.

Ah ok, when I had checked yesterday they didn't have prices posted yet.

I wasn't sure if a Di2 module was an option that had different internal Di2 routing.

Nice thing about that graph is that we finally have some data on the venge. It looks like it is about 250 grams less drag than the shiv, which is pretty decent for a road bike.

Hey Daveinmammoth, I think I can get most of these for you.


1) Ratio of the aerobar is around 4:1.

2) I'm hunting down the stack and reach charts, I will have Clayton post them along with the geo chart in his original post.

3) the decision for no nosecone came from the need to travel with the bike. Eliminating the nosecone means there are fewer unique parts used on the bike and an athlete traveling with it can typically replace any bolt with parts easily found in a shop. Also, by lengthening the DT airfoil we were able to get similar aerodynamics to what was found in the original Shiv's HT/Nosecone section.


4) We use the same side pull brake front and rear again, so our dealers can stock fewer unique parts. We were also able to get a stronger brake feel from the side pull.


5) I haven't seen a limitation of wheel choice yet. All of Zipp's Firecrest 808s and 404s fit easily.


6) All bikes have our OSBB shell that allows you to run any BB30 crank or any Shimano style crank with supplied adapters.


7) Frame's from SW to Comp share the same exact shape and features. Carbon lay-up has been modified to help lower cost and make a $3300 Rival bike possible!


8) On the back side of the stem there are 3 different heights of "Control Towers" (5mm 25mm and 50mm). These fairings ship with the bike or frame and help reduce cable clutter and provide smooth airflow behind the stem regardless of the riders bar height.





9) Yes, the bikes are equipped with 2 sleeves inside the frame. For bikes with cables the FD and the RD will go down on tube (The mega sewer tube) and the rear brake will go down its own hole. On Di2 and Ultegra Di2 bikes the control box esily fits down the mega sewer tube, while the rear brake is routed down its own separate hole. Cable routing on these bikes is incredible easy.


10) Mark Cote will speak to aerodynamics when he gets home from Kona. He will have the good hard facts for everyone soon.

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

The XL will ship with a 175 cranks arm.

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

What are the crank arm lengths that one can order with the bike?

170-175 only or are there others?

Yes Sir, Also, on the SW bike, the TT chainrings have a cut out to allow to a Quarq powermeter. (see below)

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

So those of you with current Shiv's, what size do you think you will choose on the Shiv Tri?

Exactly....but a proper TT bike coz they're cool...!

Again, I'll let Mark speak to the aerodynamics of the bike, however, we did make the choice for vertical drop outs to make the bike easier to use. After testing the bike in CFD we didn't see a gain in drag from the increased wheel gap. Also with the increase in space from the wheel to the frame, it opens up the ability to run high volume tires.

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Hey UKathlete, We have been road testing the bike here in California for about 8 months and the bike handles extremely well for 3 reasons.

First even though the tubes are very deep, Mark and Luc's airfoils are very stable in HIGH crosswind. Even with 90mm deep wheels the bike seems to tac like a sail boat in the wind. It feels fast and predictable. Second, due to the large tubes... the bike is stiff. For years we have said that a bikes overall torsional stiffness is the best predictor of handling and the Shiv is extremely laterally stiff. Even at high lean angles and heavy cornering loads the bike tracks very well. Last, the Shiv TT is one of the best handling TT bikes on the planet thanks to the input from out pro teams. We took what we learned from the Shiv TT and translated that to a triathlon specific platform.


Even on tight and twisty roads, you are going to be able to stay in the aerobar longer and corner with more confidence. We are really proud of how the bike handles.

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

you mean more ;) and at 40kph not 30mph(sorta standard)

Hey Chris....do you know if the new pads/extensions/shims can be retrofitted to the nosecone Shiv?

Yep, you are correct.

and my drag goes up about 75% between those two speeds

I 2nd this question about cleaning the bladder ??

The aerobar can not be retrofitted to the original Nosecone Shiv.


Since the brake is mounted to the inside of the original bike's nosecone you would need to have a new fork with brake bosses on it.


Thanks Boilermaker!

boilermaker_yv wrote:

Hey Chris....do you know if the new pads/extensions/shims can be retrofitted to the nosecone Shiv?

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Him, good but not exactly stellar then. I missed the 40kph speed first time I saw the graph.

Of course that is with two bottles.

Bummer......I guess I'll have to do the ST oven surgery to swap the extensions to ski bend.

Thx pal.

The bladder can be easily removed from the frame. for cleaning just like a standard hydration bladder.

Also for cleaning the inside of the frame, while we haven't seen a problem or build up or residue yet, we took extra care with finishing the inside of the frame and the area around the bladder with very smooth sealed carbon to make sure that even the most acidic drink can easily be washed off without hurting the carbon on the inside of the frame.


We use an advanced style of carbon molding which uses an EPS (Styrofoam like in a helmet) mandrel coated with latex to help create the complex shapes in the bike while keeping smooth and consistent surface on the inside of the frame. We also use this style of molding in some of out other bikes like the Venge and Shiv TT due to their extreme tube profiles. Keeping tight toleances between the lay-up mandrel and the final shape means fewer wrinkles on the inside of the bike and fewer places for dried up and sticky drink mixes to hide.


I'm working on a video to show how to clean the bladders and frame. we'll post it in this thread when we get it.


thanks Rural

jg326 wrote:

I 2nd this question about cleaning the bladder ??

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

yes, and it also makes me happy for the same reason! looks like my 2011 +nose is still in the runnin'!

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Tim

are you looking for a ski bend for a nosecone shiv?

There are ski bends and straight extensions avaiable for the Nosecone Shiv as well. Have your local Specialized dealer call the warehouse.... we might still have some available.

Cheers.

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Hi Chris,
Why no 'bottle' bosses on the top tube for custom bolt-on bento pack storage options? These useful and versatile top tube bolt bosses are already available on the the trek speed concept, some of the new giant TT bikes, and will also be on some other upcoming (and very slippery) tri bikes. Why not on the tri version of the Shiv? I would imagine that adding them to an existing frame mold would not be a huge endeavor.

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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i was told that those were patented

I'm loving all of the integrated features that recognize the needs of typical riders.

Among these, the hydration bladder, and the between the bar gel storage/computer mount.

Along those lines, what are you all envisioning as the most aerodynamic method for carrying a flat kit? And why not have it as a built in feature like Trek's rear mounted speed box?

A cut up aero bottle mounted on the seat tube bottle bosses would probably work fairly well, but I have a hard time believing it would work better than something you all design with the frame opening in mind to mount in the same spot and do the same job.

I doubt those could be patented, bottle bosses have been used before in nearly every conceivable place on a frame. But I could be wrong. Got a patent or patent application number?

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Yeah...looks like the TT wins out from ~-8 to ~5 deg of yaw. That's fine by me for the majority of my racing that is in fairly calm conditions here in socal.

Definitely not enough of a difference to make me switch right away. I'm relieved.....

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I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
Powered by Accelerate 3

i didn't ask that follow up, just asked the original to someone else

but i also determined I could not carry a bottle there anyway, as my knees would continually hit it

you can also just dremmel of the original extensions, I did it like that

Actually...I'm somewhat surprised by that chart. One would think with the "unshackling" from having to abide by UCI rules that the 2012 Shiv would have been significantly faster than it's other Shiv brethren...

BTW, I'm only seeing about a 5W difference between the Shivs and the Transition at zero yaw...assuming that a Transition is "tied" with a P3C (we've seen data on that before) and recalling that the difference between a P3 and a P4 is about twice that amount...hmmm....

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Chris R,

I'm having a hard time figuring out which size frame fits me. As a comparison, I've ridden only with Argon E-114 size S which felt like it was a good fit, but it has 20mm less stack and 26mm more reach than Shiv size S. Also Shiv's top tube is 31mm shorter, I'm not sure if that makes a big difference or not. Here's a snap of me on the Argon (yes, I'm aware I could have gone lower and probably the whole position is suboptimal). What I'm most concerned with is that will the extra stack on Shiv allow a proper amount of drop.

Here are my measurements:
Height 170cm (5'7")
Inseam 79.2cm (31.2")
Trunk 59.3cm (23.3")
Forearm 34cm (13.4")
Arm 66.5cm (26.2")
Thigh 59.3cm (23.3")
Lower leg 51.5cm (20.8")
Sternal notch 137.5cm (54.1")
Weight 72kg (159 pounds)

Should I go with size S or maybe even think about XS?

Thanks

What bike does Specialized recommend for the person who, if they want to do TTs, either has to always (i.e. basically EVERYWHERE, but the US) or occasionally (for some events in the US as well...for now) abide by UCI equipment rules?

The S-Works Shiv TT at a list price of $6100 for the frame module is a bit steeply priced for some...and please don't say the aluminum Shiv model. That's "P2K era" technology ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

my guess is that specialized try to make the new shiv more user friendly and adjustable while maintaining drag numbers, instead of making a super slippery bike which is a PITA to adjust and service, as the former nose-cone shiv.

that is enough for me to switch from the nose-cone to the new shiv, but I'm semi-sponsored and can do that at no cost so I'm biased in this decision. The new bike solves a lot of problems I had with the old one so if I can get that without aero cost I'm happy.

The extra drag at zero yaw could be caused by the side-pull front brake, but I'm sure it can be easily tinkered to a center pull

I agree Tom on one hand....but on the other it seems to me by the responses from Specialized, and well, by the bike itself, that they were going for a purely *functional* triathlon rig that was ~just as fast as the TT version.

I'm sure if they wanted to make a super non UCI bike, they could....it would just have too limited an audience. This bike speaks to both those that go fast and those that have no idea how to zip tie a cage between the bars....


ETA.....I guess I type too slow....lol....same response above.

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I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
Powered by Accelerate 3

Well then...let's talk about why the nosecone Shiv was such a PITA to adjust and service. It was because they tried to skirt the UCI "structure" rules in designing the fork/brake/stem system.

So...forget the structure rules and mount the brake normally and then make a separate stem attachment. One could even take advantage of the internal volume of the nosecone to make a place for fluids are repair items. Voila! No longer a PITA.

Here's what I don't get...it seems to me that they could have gotten 95% of what they were looking to do by just designing a non-UCI compliant fork for the Shiv TT frame. That way, the folks who occasionally (or always) need to comply with UCI requirements for TT events would be able to do so with a simple fork swap. Stack and reach dimensions to the pads could even be "adjusted" with how the stem area is designed on the non-UCI fork. Seems to me like that could have been a more cost effective development

Heck....and based on that chart above, it looks like a Shiv TT with a non-UCI compliant fork design may just have even been faster than the other Shivs...

Seems to me like that could have been a more cost effective development...but, maybe that's just me...



Yeah, that would be a fairly simple retrofit since both versions use the same mounting studs.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

so are there wheel issues with the new frame? ie larger riders with certain wheels and rubbing?

I'm not sure if I remember but the Transition/Shiv graphs were probably from tests run at 30mph? The new graphs are at 40kph (25mph), so 30mph wattage differences would be something like 1.7 times as much as these new ones (from what my envelope says).

I am still trying to get my head around why an integrated system of hydration is desirable. Here's the thing, if you are racing long course and need to fill that internal bladder you will need to:
1. Slow down, grab bottle at aid station
2. Sit up and soft pedal as you try and pour contents into tiny hole on top tube
3. Do all of this before exiting the bottle drop area or be subject to a penalty, otherwise you are carrying that empty with you.

How is this a better option then one on the bars, one behind the seat, especially considering what Cervelo recently published?

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, SpeedFil, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim

Tom, y'er killin me.

The goal of the new Shiv was to provide the booming triathlon market with a product finally built with their goals in mind. The decision to go 100% UCI illegal was a long and hard fought battle by many of the triathletes internally here at specialized. To be able to develop a product like the Shiv we had make a decision where to allocate our engineering resources sadly that means we pushed away from making a mid-priced UCI legal TT option.


With that said, and Tom... I know you don't want this answer, but the new Shiv Alloy is a pretty rockin bike. The airfoils on the fork, DT, ST, and CSs are all designed to mimic the Shiv TT using a narrow leading edge and a blunt center section. As you've heard us say in the past that shape encourages airflow to stay attached to the shape longer lowering the drag and improving the bikes stability in crosswind. The frame was also developed in conjunction with the new Langster Pro, so the bikes ability to launch "start house sprints" is on par with any carbon TT bike on the market.



The Shiv Alloy also comes with the Alloy version of the new aerobar which give a ton of adjustment, the ability to run any standard stem the rider wants, and free choice of aero extension. Even though we have a large gap in the pricing structure, the new Shiv Alloy is certainly an up to date budget sleeper. We have a lot of TT enthusiasts in-house clamoring to get their hands on it!


Believe me Tom, I wish that gap was patched up too. But with the new Shiv and Shiv Alloy we should provide a much wider range of riders products that fit their experience than ever before!

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

What speed was being used to report drag differences between the P3 and P4? I thought that Cervelo used 50 kph. A 5W difference at 40 kph is much more significant than a 5W difference at 50 kph.

Well...I just used the ROT that at race speeds 5W = ~50g of drag at 30mph tunnel speed...and I remembered that the difference at zero yaw for the P4 and P3 was ~100g at 30mph tunnel speed.

Again...this is why I think it's silly that ALL tunnel data isn't just reported in CdA. Then everyone wouldn't have to worry about all of this "what units and what speed" jive...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Its more universal. The Cervelo test was for a level bottle, with the arms next to the bottle and the riders hands clasped together in front of the bottle. Particularly the hands clasped in front of the bottle is a bit uncommon.

The other thing is that their is 0 penalty to not using the bladder. With the P4 if you can use or run the bottle their is a penalty.


Styrrell

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Styrrell

Well...Mark Cote tells me that I "keep you guys on your toes" ;-)



I understand that this new bike wasn't intended to serve the mid-price UCI-legal TT market...I'm guess I'm basically just asking why there isn't a Shiv TT model below the S-Works? That "model" (same shapes, different carbon) is used across all of your other bikes, why not a "Shiv TT Pro"?




Are we going to get to see some drag data on that bike?



I'm thinking the Shiv Alloy might find some use as a "crit bike" ;-) Which reminds me that I need to bug Mark Cote again about coming up with a "Venge Alloy"...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I think it's meant for LC racing to start full, and then run only 1 bottle between the bar for hand ups.

Let's say it's 50oz (don't know how much it holds, haven't read the thread) that's 2something regular bottles. In a HIM you may not even need to run a bottle cage.

In an IM that eliminates at least 1 bottle hand up completely, maybe 2.

You don't have to worry about losing the bladder on a big bump (i've seen that happen a lot at Soma over the years + at other races) & you have a lot more of your drink of choice on board. = less worry about GI issues later.

Also since we are dealing with triathletes, having them reach behind causes many to swerve out into the lane further, so it could be safer.

All in all it reminds me of the internal bladder on the old bike that Harold Robinson used to ride. Damn it I can't remember the name of the bike.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta Twitter

Trimble.

Styrrell

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Styrrell

It's barely a single bottles worth of fluid in the bladder. I'm actually not even sure of the exact ounces but heard it being discussed in one of the videos released somewhere about the bike. Does anyone know exact fluid amount?

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"One Line Robert"

The bladder is 23oz for the M, L, and XL bikes, 20oz for the XS and S bikes.

In the original design meetings for the bike we all expected to see a 72oz bladder with 2 chambers so you could run nutrition and water inside the bike... As the development continued we realized there just isn't that much room inside the bike. The bladder in the production bike is limited by the joint connecting the front triangle and the BB section (OPBBCS). If you run the bladder over the joint there is friction that can over time rupture the system.


As we tested the hydration system in house we realized that by using the bladder as our main water supply and refilling it with a bottle placed on the bar or behind the seat we were able drink more frequently and stay in the aerobar more of the time.


As for the "sloshing" inside of the frame... there isn't any (I thought there would be too! but there just isn't) There isn't any sloshing for 2 reasons. First if you have ridden with a waterbottle on the frame, you have experienced more than you will from the bladder. Due to the narrow profile of the bladder it limits the amount of movement the liquid in the bottle can have (think about sloshing a beer stein and a champaign flute, liquid in the flute doesn't travel as far up the sides of the glass as the stein.) Second, as the water is removed from the bladder all of the volume isn't replaced with air. The weight of the liquid inside holds the bladder open, without the water inside, it collapses on itsself reducing the movement of the fluid inside.


Thanks werobert!

wsrobert wrote:

Does anyone know exact fluid amount?

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

I am confused as hell on the sizing.

Currently, I ride a Large Transition with just a small spacer on the stem. The stack/reach is - 526/405.

Looking at the Shiv (stack/reach):

Medium - 540/405
Large -565/425

I thought the Transition was a narrow, tall frame. The Shiv looks even more so. So, if I were to go from the Transition to the Shiv, it seems like a drop from the Large (Transition) to the Medium (Shiv). Yes?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Ahhh, what a good idea you have!


Currently we don't have many molds for the Shiv TT, think one set per size. Also, the cost of using the latex over EPS mandrel is substantial. For every frame we pop out of the mold, we destroy the mandrel used to create the complex shape of the bike. For a low volume bike like the Shiv TT its tough to make that type of investment sound appealing to the guys writing the checks.


The real solution will be putting some engineering muscle behind the project in the future and creating a bike as fast as the current Shiv TT with an easier to produce frame.


and I'm going to leave the nitty gritty aero details on all the bikes to the Aero Pharaoh himself. I know he is excited to talk about it when Kona is over. This entire project has been tough to keep quiet from the start!!!

Good to hear, I'm going to me in the market for a new bike to upgrade from my Transition, which has taken a bit of a beating over the last 3 years...! The shiv is definatley a top contender, but which one, I'm not sure about yet...! For me it's 95% about the handling..

Chris, Slightly off topic question - I've got a Shiv TT being built right now, expect to pick it up today. When we opened the box at the shop we found that the frame was 100% matte black, no gloss accents except on the fork. The clear-coat is fine, just no glossy black on the frame at all. Is that how theyre shipping now or did I get a one-off? Personally i LOVE it and would have ordered it sooner if I new it was goinng to be all matte/nude carbon. Make the Shiv Tri in matte black and I'd reconsider my frame choice :)

Hi Styrrell,

Two small details:

1. The rider need not actually clasp hands; just holding the aerobar extensions is all we did. No special hand position, just a bottle between the arms. See figure 3 in the blog post: http://cervelo.com/...d-aerodynamics/2930/

2. There is no aero penalty for using a bottle on the P4. There is a penalty for mounting a bottle on any other frame. See the data here: http://www.slowtwitch.com/...the_Tunnel_1929.html

Cheers,

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

What is the overall stack of the new S-Works Shiv with the included aero bars? All you show on the Specialized website is frame stack. For reach we can assume that it will be frame reach + 60 or 90 mm for the stem lengths, correct?

There is one indisputable fact about the Shiv-Tri, well almost indisputable:

1. For some reason, not understood to me, triathletes love having an aerodrink with a straw up in the front of their bike. This is a fact

2. The shiv provides almost that same functionality is a way that is 99% less stupid - the straw is not sticking up all the time, it is more aero, weight is better located. If it doesn't spill when you lay the bike down, another bonus!

so I conclude this bike will be popular.

The only counterpoint is that the bladder does not hold the 10 gallons that many of the aerodrink products do, so many sprint triathletes will probably die of dehydration.

Another point - not every can use the between the arms bottle. Some peoples extensions are too short, or have weird bends that make it impossible or awkward. or their iphone is already there.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

"The real solution will be putting some engineering muscle behind the project in the future and creating a bike as fast as the current Shiv TT with an easier to produce frame."

A golden nugget for those who rail against you guys for the costs of these super aero bikes we're demanding of you manufacturers. It's always give and take in product design and manufacturing. That "engineering muscle" isn't going to be cheap either.


And thanks to those within the Specialized fold who fought to bring this bike to fruition. I've been waiting...

Hello Damon,
I guess clasped isn't the correct descrtor, but in the pic aren't the riders hands touching? I've commonly seen hand/bottle/hand in pictures.

I didn't mean their is a penalty for running the P4 integrated bottle, but if you can't use it in a UCI race and need to leave it off and put another bottle in its place , in the same position, isn't there a slight penalty.

Don't get me wrong, I have a friend with a P4 and he raves about. It just that on the finer points of aero I think its important to get the tiny details correct.

Styrrell

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Styrrell

Which one? I have LOTS of ideas...




Sure...but is that a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" thing? Is the Shiv TT low volume because the only offering is high end?

You know, I don't recall seeing very many Transitions at the local and district TTs (or even local triathlons) until the mid and lower end models (i.e. the non-Sworks Transitions...the Pro, Expert, Comp, etc.) were widely available and people could see that they were getting the exact same aero performance as the S-Works Transition at a much more reasonable price. In fact, for a while, IMO the Transition Pro frameset was pretty much the best "bang for the buck" TT frame one could buy (probably tied with the P2C)...until the UCI decided that the fins had to be sawn off in order to use them in UCI regulated TTs :-/

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

What's your thoughts on the Alloy version coming out? My Cervelo Dual has seen better days recently...and heck, it seems like a killer deal.

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ErgDB Erg & PowerAgent workout generator | My blog - special thanks to Kiwami

Few questions:

1) Can you simply elect to not run the internal hydration setup? Is there a reliable, waterproof plug to cap the entry point? I personally prefer the simplicity of a torpedo bottle between my bars and, in the case of the Shiv, a seat tube bottle.

2) With the aerobar, I notice the straw is held on by a magnet to alloy extensions. How is the straw held in place if you use carbon extensions?

3) How might the sweat from the bladder impact Di2 wires running in the frame?

3) On the Specialized website, there OSBB frameset is shown, but there is no aerobar, extensions,. fairing, etc. Is this analogous to the Speed Concept 7 series where you'll simply run a normal stem and spacer?

Thanks,

Bob

Until we see data on it's performance...there's no way of knowing if it's an upgrade or not from your dual...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Mine hits the front tire!

Thats not a tough one. With a straw (and I got rid or the rigid one after the first ride) I can lift the tube and drink without getting out of my aero position even for a second. Just a little turn of the wrist. No other fluid replenishment solution allows a lower aero penalty, especailly since most racing orgs don't let you use IVs anymore (yeah someone tried it in a race).

Styrrell

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Styrrell

It's highly unlikely that the current extensions are steel (the only material that would function as you suggest), which leads one to conclude that there is another magnet involved. Which would work with carbon or any other material.

On the photos I've seen the magnet attached to the extension. I don't know what the material is, but the photo is rather clear.

Bob

I take that back, I looked at the photo on the front page and it appears as though there is a rubber band that goes around the extension that has a magnet. My bad. Seems a bit odd since you'll have to put it back when you're done, thus taking your eyes off the road.

Bob

I do not get out of the aero position to drink with a torpedo bottle.

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---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Not a crit racer

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Yes, well, we can't all be Mr. Mott.

Bob

Ddn't say out of the aero position, I said no aero penalty. How exactly does the fluid get into your belly, without an aero penalty?

Styrrell

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Styrrell

You guys need to think more "out of the box"...I think someone needs to incorporate one of these things into an aero helmet ;-)



(BTW...just a hint...but since you write "Styrrell" at the end of every post anyway, how about just making that your signature file? It's a pain to have to cut your name out of every reply I quote of yours)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

How easy is it to refill the bladder during the ride? Any chance of a video on this process? Thanks guys for listening to the masses.

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Robert Driskell
Certified Master Body Geometry fit Technician
Certified Master Retul Fit Technician
Zipp Service Course Specialist
Bikes Plus Pensacola Florida

What is weight on this bike compared to prior shiv?

A lot heavier I suspect.

Ok,

I think at least one person wanted to use your idea and put a badder in the aero tail.

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Styrrell

I doubt it, the nosecone shiv weights a ton

i think it could be used as a catheter resevoir for those of you that don't want to wet yourselves while riding, just use a different tube dia ;)

Thanks for moving your signature :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Its going to take some getting used to. typiing it every time is pretty natural.

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Styrrell

Dong, currently all of the bikes are shipping in full matte just like you received. My personal opinion... man that bike looks good!!! I've alwasy been a fan of black on black on black on black.


I'm glad you are digging it!

dongustav wrote:

Chris, Slightly off topic question - I've got a Shiv TT being built right now, expect to pick it up today. When we opened the box at the shop we found that the frame was 100% matte black, no gloss accents except on the fork. The clear-coat is fine, just no glossy black on the frame at all. Is that how theyre shipping now or did I get a one-off? Personally i LOVE it and would have ordered it sooner if I new it was goinng to be all matte/nude carbon. Make the Shiv Tri in matte black and I'd reconsider my frame choice :)

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Cakewalk,

Looking at the stack and reach information on the website - reach wise, the large is the frame for me, but my stack is 53.5 (3 centimeters lower than what is listed on the website). How much lower can the large go on it's stack?

Thanks,

twomarks

Hey JSA

The in the later years of the Transition we started realizing that the frame was actually a little low (especially in the larger sizes) thanks to data we were receiving from our BG Fitters. Starting the project for the Shiv we wanted to have a bike that not only had a huge range of fit... but was also easy to fit for our dealers.


JSA, you are correct. The medium bike will be the easiest way to replicate your fit.

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Glad to hear you're pickin up what we're putting down. When you get a chance to ride one, make sure you let me know what you think!

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Hey Shiv-er let me see if I can answer this one.

here is the S&R chart for the bike:


You are correct, with the stem flipping from 60-90mm you can add that on for your reach to the basebar. However, with this bike we are running a standard 1 1/8th" steer tube so riders will be able to choose any stem and bar they want. (the full integrated carbon aerobar/stem and the alloy bar will also be available in the aftermarket.)

Next on the stack height, with the S-Works carbon bar with integrated stem from the center of the HT to the basebar measures 35mm and from the basebar to the armpad measures 45mm for a total of 80mm from the center of the HT to the arm pad. This is essentially the lowest stock set up.

With this bike and stock parts we have been able to fit both Ben Hoffman and Rasmus easily on the bike [Crowie, as you have seen, runs a Pro cockpit (not to mention Mark, Myself, and many other test dummies in the building!)]

From the lowest position the rider can add up to 50mm of spacer in 5mm increments under the extensions

and 25mm or 50mm of additional height to the steertube with use of the included Control Towers!!!

This means from the stock set up a rider can come up an additional 10cm. This bike is incredibly easy to fit.

Parts are shown below:



The bike also ships with this kit:



including:

Spacers for the extensions in 20mm, 10mm and 5mm heights



3 heights (5mm, 25mm, and 50mm) of behind the stem Control Tower Fairings.



Alright Shiv-er, I hope that covers the basics. We did alot of thinking and reserch about what a REAL triathlete needed and aimed to not just fit the ultra-low extreme of UCI Pro cyclists. Hopefully this is just want everyone has been hoping for.

if you need any more clarification please ask. I'll be fielding questions when I can.

thanks!!!

Shiv-er wrote:

What is the overall stack of the new S-Works Shiv with the included aero bars? All you show on the Specialized website is frame stack. For reach we can assume that it will be frame reach + 60 or 90 mm for the stem lengths, correct?

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Hey Macho,

1) Yes you can run the bike without the bladder. The frame will ship with a small cap with will close the frame from sweat, water, and rain.



2) the magnet is held to the bar by a "knog" like rubber piece. It can be easily moved anywhere the rider wants.


The cables and wires are both sealed away from the bladder. If you look at the X-Ray of the bike you can see that there is stiff plastic housing that runs from the holes at the top of the TT to the BB so the user can easily guide the cables through the frame.






4) Yes sir, you can run and Stem/Bar combo you want. the Steer tube is 1 18th inches and will accept any standard stem.

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Race ready, lighter than my Transition so hardly a ton.

Jordan, how does the sizing compare between the 2011 shiv and the new SHIV tri? I am cuurrenting on a 2011 Shiv.

Thanks.

Also, what are the crank arm lengths for the Medium and Large SHIV sizes?

Are you planning on utilizing the in frame storage technology in your mountain bikes and if so how much weed is expected to fit in there? I have some mountain biker friends that are wondering.

I've read the new carbon handlebar will be made available seprately too. Any release date for it? And price? Also, will it ship with the same kit as pictured above?

Thank you for being so helpful on this forum. The bike looks very "beefy" I am a female-srong rider, but only 110 pounds so frame weight is important to me. Can you compare the weight of say a speed concept and P4 built up similarly? thank you.

Hi Chris,

Just wondering how wide the basebars are center to center.

Thanks

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Arif Sidek

I have no idea about stack or reach, I was using a nose-cone size S shiv with 1,5cm of risers. What size do I need in the new shiv to get that same pad height?

Hey Robert! Hope everything is going well at the shop. I haven't seen you out here in a while!

We will start releasing videos on "how to" after the Kona crunch is over.

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Hey Twomarks,

The stack chart does not take the height of the bar in to account. Even though the frame is slightly taller in stack to accommodate more real world athletes, the ability to run any bar and stem combination should help the flexible outliers like yourself. Make sure you are also taking in to consideration the stack of your current handlebar.


Thanks Twomarks

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Arif, My size Medium is 42 center to center. I'll try to find out the widths on the other sizes this afternoon.

Thanks!

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

We are making both the Carbon and Alloy bars available in the aftermarket. Both bars will have very minimal decals so they will not mess up the mojo of anyone's non specialized bikes.

We are trying to take care of our production needs before we start selling in the aftermarket. We want to make sure that a bike with as many parts as the Shiv is fully supported in our warehouses and dealers before we start selling the aerobars in the aftermarket. We are also looking and some VERY competitive prices. Until I can really confirm the prices though, I'll reserve our price plan.

We're working on it sanderv! I'm very excited to get that back out to the masses!

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Thanks Chris. I'm particularly interested in the XS size

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Arif Sidek

Hey Cat, I just texted the demo guys at Kona to see if they could weigh the XS and S bikes.

My size medium weighs under 17.5lbs with pedals. When I get the other weights of the demo bikes I will let you know.

thanks Cat!

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

LOL! Its just as well the Shiv Tri doesnt come with rear dropouts or urban fixie hipsters will be riding one with the integrated bong attachment!
On a more serious front I think huge kudos to Specialized for this bike. It seems like a lot of people here want something with integrated brakes and stem level with top tube, but Specialized have delivered a bike that has the aerodynamics of their former nosecone superbike, with wider fit options, easier service and you can get it for a bit over 3 grand for a complete bike! Think about it.

.

Here's a general Specialized question.....but something I would love to see on the Shiv....have you guys ever looked into a custom paint program ala "Project One" for consumers? I know Trek does their painting in house, so I wasn't sure if this was the only factor but curious whether this option has ever been explored and what the reasons for or against it would be?

Sounds good :-)
Looking at this picture
http://www.tririg.com/...ized_Shiv&num=29
will there be the option of a lower spacer that fits between the extension clamp and the base bar? So the extension sits as low as possible, at the expense of not getting much/any tilt adjust?
I think I'd need it to go that low, even with the low-profile stem......

Hi, CakeWalk:
Thanks for all the great info. I'm trying to figure out if the 2012 Shiv TT module (UCI version) is indeed compatible with internal Di2 as stock. It looks like this can work (it was on some pro bikes), but I wonder if the version shipping to consumers requires any modifications. Does it use a similar "sewer" to the 2012 non-UCI version (or something else that would enable it to work)?

Do you know which Shimano Di2 cable kit is required? Looks like the battery is attached via the water bottle mount.

Thank you so much. If it's internal Di2 compatible, I'll order right now!

I'm capable of drilling/dremel-ing/soldering, but I wouldn't want to damage the frame in any way.

Hey Chris,

Any weight limits on the bike? I am a big guy (235#) built more like a linebacker than the typical triathlete. I'd be looking at the Large or XL frame. Thanks!

dusty

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"slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

Cranks on the Med and Large bikes are 172.5mm the XL bike gets 175mm.

Cheers

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Hey Quote Mile,

A few years ago we actually "tested" program for custom paint. While it was a viable option, something that the end customer occasionally asked for, we had to think about who we really work for. The dealers that sell our product were in need product on time and lower in cost. The custom paint program took some time away from the general production of our frames and required more time in the design department.


While there were a few custom paint jobs that were tested in the market, we decided to scrap the program and reinvest the money back in to on time production of bikes that were all ready selling out of.


Alot of our dealers live and breath on being able to sell our bikes, if the supply chain shuts down... we let them down.


For now, the program is out, but in the future there are always possibilities! Thanks Quote!

mile2424 wrote:

Here's a general Specialized question.....but something I would love to see on the Shiv....have you guys ever looked into a custom paint program ala "Project One" for consumers? I know Trek does their painting in house, so I wasn't sure if this was the only factor but curious whether this option has ever been explored and what the reasons for or against it would be?

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Great to hear Arif, I'll try to hunt down the width on the XS in the morning!

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Hey Carlos, There is certainly room to make the part you are talking about and it has certainly been kicked around.

Before we start work on the small aftermarket parts like that, we are trying to get all of the main support items in to the aftermarket (i.e extra bladders, and our onboard, integrated food and tool storage!!!).

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

I hear that tetonrider! I wouldn't want to damage it either!

It is possible but you need to cut and reconnect the shift cables.


I sent the guys in the R&D Bike Shop an email, I'll find the correct parts kit needed. What shop would you work with? There are a few shops out there that have already been doing this modification.


Cheers!

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

hey Dusty! One of the benefits of building a bike with this much carbon fiber... its stronger than a Mack truck.

The frame goes through some pretty unreal testing. For instance our pedal fatigue test for this bike (and many of our other carbon road frames.) applies over 1300nm of force to each "crank arm" in the frame for 100,000 cycles. That is around 30% more force than required by the CPSC.

Get out there and crush those Clydesdales!

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Thanks so much for the prompt reply. I really appreciate it; the answer makes the difference for me in terms of a purchase.

I'll actually be doing the build myself. I've built up many frames and done an external di2 install (Tarmac SL3). I have to travel quite a bit for races, so I need to understand exactly how everything works as inevitably something will go wrong the night before a race, when I'm alone in a hotel room. I find the best way to understand the bike is to do the build from scratch. If I've installed the brakes and run the wiring, then -- for example -- it's very easy for me to fine tune the brakes after changing wheels. Nothing wrong with a shop doing the work, but for my situation and doing races unsupported, another approach works best for me.

Do you use the downtube battery mount or an under-the-seat mount? I'm open to either as if I flat during a TT my race is over. I can see how things are different for those doing long course triathlons.

Many thanks!

Hi Chris - thanks for your assistance here.

I've been trying to understand the differences between the various Shiv framesets - the S-Works module, the Pro frameset and the frameset on the Comp Rival and Expert Models.

As far as I can tell:
1/ the Pro frameset is the one on the Comp and Rival bikes
2/ the S-Works and the Pro framesets are identical except for the different grade of carbon

Is this correct? And what are the real-world differences between the S-Works and the Pro framesets, in terms of stiffness, aero, handling, etc?

I am trying to decide which one to get, and the website doesnt really provide this information.

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--
Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope

Good to know! But what about the spacer kit? Will it come with the carbon handlebar? So that a Shiv Comp/Expert owner could take advantage of the Control Tower functionality too?

Thanks Chris! One more question, what colors will the bike come in?

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"slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

all the models for next year are up on the web... http://www.specialized.com/...amp;menuItemId=17553

Cakewalk,

Any chance you know when the Shiv Pro OSBB Frameset will be available to purchase? Thanks.

-Ben

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4 x Kona Qualifier

i'm looking at the Shiv Pro Frameset but have a couple questions
1. can i use my Quarq SRAM S975 crank?
2. can i get the New Specialized S-Works Shiv aero stem and bars (and if so, what's the cost)?

thanks
GO BUFFS!

No worries, ask anything you need.

All the colorways are on the web page. http://www.specialized.com/...amp;menuItemId=17553

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

The first SMALL quantity of S-Works bikes ships to dealers later this month. Pro, Expert, and Comp will be hitting stores over then next few months.

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

thanks. I saw that each of the models on the Shiv page was basically representing a different option but I didn't know if there were any others that weren't on the sample pictures. I of course like the matte black s-works bike the best....

I'd better start saving now.

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"slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

Hey Buff,

Yes your Quarq crank sould work as long as it is an OSBB.

And Yes, the new aerobar will indeed be available in the aftermarket. We are currently trying to meet the needs of the production bikes but after we are caught up with the main production runs it will be available for sale. We are still finalizing the prices, but we how to be very competitive with both the aftermarket Alloy bar seen on the expert bike and on the S-Works carbon bar.

cheers

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Im the same way Dusty!!! I love the all black Shiv, Shiv TT, and Venge.

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Chris,
Please forgive my ignorance in this question, how was Crowie able to use a DuraAce crank on his Shiv?

Specialized Cranks, Sram OSBB, and Shimano cranks (w/ the supplied adaptor) will fit all of the frames.

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

With one of these:

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Suffer Well.

What is the Crowie bike size???

will those work with SRAM or is there a like product?

thanks in advanced...

I was just asked--


my reply:

We haven't tested any wheel covers. Our priority was fitting, at a minimum, the new Zipp Firecrest designs.

Zipp's Website says that the outer diameter of their Fircrest 808 CC is 25.3mm wide and this is a photo of the amount of clearance with that wheel.



I don't have a wheelbuilder cover to test.

Hope this helps,

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

That's not the area where a covered wheel typically rubs in a Transition (unless you do some custom "craft" work). It's back where the stays "kink" in near the hub.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

And that kink is non-existent on the new Shiv. With the spacers/removed the brakes (and frame) have a ton of clearance for all of your aero wheel happiness.


Mark

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--
Mark Cote
MITAerobike
Specialized Bicycle Components

Well...not necessarily mine, but maybe someone else's aero happiness ;-)

BTW, is the "kink" there on the Shiv TT? Just curious if it's just the new Shiv (shall we call it the Shiv Tri?) that doesn't have the kink...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I saw a new s-works shiv today. one of the ones that was shipped to bike shops. let me say that for everyone that thinks the head tube/ front triangle looks really weird / strange, it looks WAY better in person. i wasn't so sure to begin with, but in person, its sexy without question. it was even the full red colored one - black would probably look even better.

So does that mean that a wheelcover will work for sure? If so, this makes my Shiv/SC decision really, really easy. Still waiting for LBS to get one in so I can try my own wheelcover on it but I'm dying to know if anybody has confirmed this in person.

jamie

We haven't tested everything, but I believe you'd be OK. I'll check into this with our R&D shop here (not sure if I have wheel covers in the office or not).

Thanks,

Mark

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Mark Cote
MITAerobike
Specialized Bicycle Components

Hi Mark,

I've just ordered a Shiv TT - are there any geo differences between the 2012 Shiv TT and the previous nosecone Shiv?

I've ordered a small on the advice of the dealer in Sydney. I'm 5'11". The dealer had a nosecone Shiv in the store in a medium and it looked quite big, hence the advice to go to a small. Also, I'll be doing some UCI-reg TTs so will need to get that saddle back behind the BB.

Also, do you have you run the Venge against the S5 yet? I'm currently torn between the two.

Thank very much.

Alex

Please do and let me know. Thanks!

Jamie

I have doubts with the size of the Shiv:

My actual P4 S54: reach 41.9 stack 49.8

Shiv medium: R 40.5 S 54M
Shiv long: R 42.5 S: 56.5

what size is best for my???

thanks

My thoughts exactly, I am a cervelo 54 p3/4 fit as well, I am ok on the nosecone shiv but I think that without a seriously negative stem ie ergostem I won't fit the new shiv, and to my mind that isn't a true fitting bike plus I don't want to cart half a pound of stem around.

Same here. I like to ride long and low. I think the reach on the Medium is too short, but the stack on the large is HUGE.

The stack of the medium is huge, over 1cm more than the large Transition and that's a tall frame.

True.

I was very excited to see the pricing for this new bike, but the sizing is a bummer.

Yes not good for us but from how I have seen a lot of bikes setup on here it will be ideal for a lot of them. I think that the range of features and pricepoints will take some beating.

Hi Clayton,

I got to test ride the new Shiv while in Kona, and I have to say that it was a sweet ride! While upgrading my Transition Pro is not in the cards just yet (I think a divorce might ensue), I really liked the saddle that was on the bike and figured I could at the very least afford that upgrade. I think that the demo bikes all had the Romin Evo Pro saddle - can you confirm this? Also, what are the differences between the various Romin Evo models, other than the composition of the rails? Do the rails make a difference in the feel of the saddle, or mostly just weight? I'm not really concerned about a few grams.

Thanks,
David.

Hi,

Sorry for my bad english, I'm french triathlete and it's my first reply...

Do you know if the Pro frameset can be used with shimano Di2 or if the Di2 is just available with S-works frameset ?

Thank you for your help.

Nobody for answer me ? ;-(

On the Pro frame set only, the OSBB, will that accept any group- in other words, if I purchased a complete DA group off the rack, is that frame set set up to complete the build, or does there need to be some modification to the frame set?

---

"What do you mean your running shoes don't match your bike?"

The Pro has the same frame design as the S-works, so I don't see how the Pro wouldn't be compatible. However, if you already have D12, why not just by the S-Works frame module and use your current bike parts to complete the build?

Hey Alex, Congrats on the new rig. The the Shiv TT shares the same Geo as the previous Nosecone bike. So if the medium looked a little long, the Small should do the trick.

I just had a few Aussies in my USA SBCU class last year, which shop are you working with?

As for the data on the S5 and Venge. We havn't been back to the wind tunnel with the S5 yet. Mark and the Engineering team have been working their butts off trying to get everything on the new Shiv ready.

We'll be back in the swing of testing soon, and be sure to share the aero data with you.

Cheers.

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Great David, glad you liked the bike.

The saddle speced on the bikes is indeed the Romin Evo.

Here is the breakdown for our saddles. The carbon rails are slightly stiffer and can be more durable over time. If you're planning on running the carbon rails you will need a set of "carbon rail hardware" for you existing seatpost. (http://www.specialized.com/...oduct.jsp?spid=64487)

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Hey Nemo, All of the frames are compatible with internal Di2 cables.

Chris

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

Thank you for your answer.
Can you confirm that the capacity of the bladder is 20 oz ?

Hey OCD,

The frame comes with a set of adapter that allow you to use any Shimano style cranks set.


Full, Dura-Ace... No problem.

OCD wrote:

On the Pro frame set only, the OSBB, will that accept any group- in other words, if I purchased a complete DA group off the rack, is that frame set set up to complete the build, or does there need to be some modification to the frame set?

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

here you go Nemo,

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Chris R.
Specialized Bicycle Components
PR/Media Relations

This was already covered in this thread:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=3566153#3566153

23 oz or 20 oz depending on size.

I'm lost :-) M or L??

Are there any wheel restrictions? All Zipp, all SRAM, etc?

SM

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"What do you mean your running shoes don't match your bike?"

forgive me, this has probably already been asked...

but,
is there any difference in the carbon lay up (like stiffness in the bottom bracket area, etc) between the pro and comp models. I'm weighing the differences between just the pro frame or the rival comp version. i understand the sworks is different (better) carbon - but i want to know the differences in the lesser models.

I'm no authority on this matter, but based on Specialized's published info (http://www.specialized.com/...1101&scname=Road) the Pro, Expert and Comp frames all use the same carbon lay-up (FACT 10r).

The S-Works version uses 11r.

10r was essentially the top-of-the-line lay-up from one or two seasons ago. (My 2011 Tarmac SL3 is 11r, so at a minimum it was on top bikes released last summer.)

I'd wager that in a year or two the S-Works model will get the then-latest carbon lay-up and the 11r will trickle down.

If you are tuned into their road bikes, 10r was used on the Tarmac SL2. The SL3 is stiffer and lighter than the SL2 (if you search I am sure there are charts to quantify this). The SL4 uses the same lay-up as the SL3 yet is still stiffer & lighter, so I would not fret about 10r vs 11r in the real world.

thank you! can Chris R. confirm this?

They answered my question and said that all Shimano options will work. The PRO frame comes with adapters for the crankset, but is DI2 compatible and all Shimano group compatible ( I think that is what he was saying )

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"What do you mean your running shoes don't match your bike?"

Sorry if this has been asked already. Tried to search this long forum but couldn't find it anywhere so here is the question.

This bladder you guys inserted inside the frame, Can we take it out for cleaning or is it permanently fixed there? Any additional details and videos/photos would be helpful

Very easy to remove and clean. There's a cap that can cover the opening if you choose not to use the hydration system.

-David

Chris,

two quick questions:
1) in see the frames will come with adapters for Shamino cranks, will there also be an adapter for SRAM cranks?
2) any info (availability, etc) on the computer/food storage "bin" thingy (i know, very techincal!) Rasmus Henning used between his bars in Kona?

thanks in advanced!
Steve

Hi Clayton,

I have read that the bladder is refillable while riding. What's the size of the top cap of the hydratation system? I think that the process to refill the bladder is really complicated...ride with one arm in the aerobars and try to put all the liquid inside the small hole without messing all the TT

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http://cds-0.blogspot.com

1°/ Do you know if the arobars of the S-work frameset will be availlable alone ?
For use it by exemple with the Pro frameset...

2°/ Do you have pics of the hole of the bladder on the bike for see how refill it ?

Hi clayton, any ideas if the geometry would fit someone with long legs and short torso "long and short" according to Dan Empfield. what type of body dimension group is the geometry for? thanks.

http://velonews.competitor.com/...4441/attachment/4-21

yes bars are available aftermarket it's around post 130-140 by cakewalk above


We should really try to make better use of the industry reps on this board, asking them the same questions over and over again just is going to frustrate the purpose of having them here.

sorta part of their job.... its not all roses all the time...

Hey guys, first time poster...

1) How easy is it for fluid to drain out of the downtube?

2) Does excessive condensation build up in the tube?

3) Was there any strength testing done for the composite if it gets excessively wet? Or is the seal waterproof?

Thanks,

Aaron

enginaaron wrote:

3) Was there any strength testing done for the composite if it gets excessively wet? Or is the seal waterproof?

They have been building racing shells and oars (rowing) out of carbon and carbon composites for two decades or so now - getting wet has no effect on carbon/composite strength.

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~Kevin

If the laminate is sealed properly, it's not an issue. Water does indeed lower the strength of carbon composite laminate structures.

How about just Venge vs. S3?

We can take it from there... ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Also high performance yacht hulls, masts, etc. Just take a look at any picture of a Volvo Ocean 60 sailing at full tilt, and you'll know that carbon composite handle water just fine.

Can I transfer my "traditional" style (ie non-BB30) FSA SRM over? If it's a yes the cards gonna get a beating, otherwise might a deal-killer!