well, it was a dumb move by the car to not pay attention, especially when a bike race is obviously going on. and the car did not signal.

thats a traffic ticket for sure.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Yea thats a tough call... Seems like the car knew the cyclist was there (just passed him) so should have been watching out for that. However the cyclist only moved to the right to pass the slowing car, so the car might have though the cyclist was behind him (slowing... waiting to pass etc). Not really sure who is at fault there, although im glad he appeared to be OK.

I'm torn on this one. Anytime I see brake lights going on and I am catching up to a car, I assume they are going to do something like turn or park or something that will put me in harms way. I think too often we cyclists assume cars see us and we really shouldn't. But at the same time, the guy clearly didn't check his blind spot.
M~

What kind of dumbass tries to pass that fast on the inside on a road with no shoulder and no where to go. Take the car on the left. Riding on the road is like 75% self-preservation and 25% going fast even in a race.

yeah, road riding you slow down, check to the left, and move over

in a race though, I ain't sayin what he did was right, but I unnerstaaaand

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I agree with the comment on the article that it was a case of 2 wrongs. the driver should have been more attentive and the rider should not have undertaken.

I'm totally biased, and I agree that different actions could have been taken by both . . . but if you are driving your car in an obvious bike race area wouldn't you think to look for bikes when making a quick right turn with no signal?

not if I am someone completely unfamiliar with bike racing/triathlon. I would probably just be really nervous or angry or annoyed or confused and even if you check you can fail to see a cyclist due to a blind spot.

A singal though, I'm not seeing it. that would help. its why you signal, so if you can't see someone, they know what you are doing at least.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

It is a tough one. That is a danger zone and for me I have learned to always expect the car to turn. At any intersection, I always assume a car is going to cut me off.

Rider was dumb for passing a braking Excursion on the right, at the entrance to a business. Severe lack of common sense shown there, race or not.

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Kotter
Getting back into the game...
Slower than you.

Yes but this happened in the wonderful Pacific NW where we have bike lanes and people are supposed to be used to checking for bikes before turning right. If you don't do this in the town I live in you'll end up with a good number of commuters plastered to the right side of your car.

Agreed

As many others have said, it was way dumb to pass on the inside there. The proper place to pass would have been on the outside of the car by slowing a bit. Even if you crossed the center line to avoid a car, I highly doubt a referee would give you a penalty. But, when racing we don't see that,w e only hear "GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO."

RV

I'm inclined to agree that both sides should have done things differently, but I also can't help but notice that the entrance to the station was coned off. Yes, one of the cones was moved out of the way, but that doesn't change anything.

Of course all of us know who wins and who loses when a 200 pound rider/bike meets a 5000 pound SUV and should pay more attention, even in a race.

Concur.

What is the rule of thumb when cars get rear-ended? Following car is at fault. I see no difference here.

And for the record, this guy wasn't hit by the vehicle, he hit the vehicle.


(That said, I love the sound of a disc wheel moving along......)

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I rarely pass cars on the right for that reason... unless it's a road without driveways/businesses.

Both people made bad decisions here. The cyclist for going to the right or not slowing down. The driver for not signaling, not paying attention, and buying that ridiculous car.

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Twitter | Kancman | Blog

I'm totally biased, and I agree that different actions could have been taken by both . . . but if you are driving your car in an obvious bike race area wouldn't you think to look for bikes when making a quick right turn with no signal?
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Agreed, the cyclist should have been more defensive but the car broke the law with NO TURN SIGNAL.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

...still i wd have probably chosen to overtake on the left ... but guess it is so much easier to think when sitting on my armchair and not redlining ....

Yep, I agree with most here. Its only smart to assume a vehicle has no idea you are there. This clearly could have been avoided by the cyclist.

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War Eagle!

yeah, it looks like the veh was well ahead of the cyclist(who was closing in on the slower moving vehicle) driver probably figured noone there as he passed him a while back, and even if he/she looked in the rearview mirror, bike still back out of harms way in center of lane. veh starts to make turn, and 2 seconds elapse before bike slams into veh.

you don't pass competitors on the left, why pass a slowing giant veh on left?

maybe the 2 sec following distance isn't enough for cyclists.

i seriously cannot fault the driver on this one. it's a case of brain frost on the racer, not thinking clearly and disregarding the warning signs and common sense(which goes out the window in a race)

and i am sure every cyclist signals all their turns as well(before we go there)

I'm going with the cyclist at fault for this one. Sure the truck didn't use his signal and should get a ticket for that, but that was a real DUMBASS move to pass the truck on the inside while it was still moving - race or no race - given that the shoulder was only about 24" wide AND there were places for vehicles to make right turns.

My take on it (guessing since I wasn't there) is the truck was well enough ahead and the rider was in the road. Truck starts to slow down and rider closes the gap to the truck - decides he didn't want to slow (race) and starts to pass on the right just as the truck is making it's signal-less turn. (Truck used no signal because everyone hates cyclist on the road and it was an easy way to fu*k with one) - crash. Not sure about that states MV laws, but as a general rule its the following vehicle/rider that has the responsibility to stay a clear safe distance behind to avoid these kind of accidents.

Now, given the heat of the race moment I would probably "think" about doing the same thing (hoping I wouldn't actually do it though) and kicking myself after the crash for the stupid move I just pulled.

Gonna be an expensive race for the guy......
Michael

Video shows car slowing with close to 6 seconds from start of video till when the rider struck the car.
Car is clearly not at fault...

exit may be coned off, entrance was not. only half of drive appears to be coned ie they didn't want folks pulling out and misjudging the speed of oncoming cyclists in race mode.

Why the hell are there cars on the course????

Hey, at least nobody really got hurt (from what I can tell)

actually the car did signal - so the bike came up on a car that had slowed and had its signal on.
Personally I would have gone to left

assuming you meant "right" and not "left"....

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Dave, no need to link to examiner stories.

Seemed pretty clear he went to the left a bit as the truck passed to
get some drafting. Once you do that, might as well get on the horns
so you can brake. At that point, you can stay in the draft, but stay
back a bit and look for either a safe point to pass (maybe to the left
if it looks like he's gonna turn right), or let the car accelerate away.
Might not have been the rider's "fault", but he definitely could have
done better.

Tom A.'s 3 rules of riding your bike (or motorcycle) in traffic:

1. Assume you're invisible.
2. Assume all cars will turn in front of you if they can.
3. When in doubt, see rules #1 and #2.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Especially when you can see the truck is using his brakes, it is pretty obvious he is going to turn. While you can say he didn't use a turn signal, I woul rather be alive than dead and have someone to blame.

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This.

Legally *maybe* the car was at fault, I don't know how it works in Washington. He didn't signal, for sure. But that was a seriously dumb move by the cyclist.

ask my ex or kids how often I call out left and right as the opposite of what they are. it's like 75%, so, yup

this means, never ask me for directions, or you will go the wrong way.

i can hold my right hand up, know it is the right hand, point it to the right, and then my mouth will say to turn left. I have no idea why that wire is crossed in my head

maybe your corpus callosum is severed or not working properly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

There's a difference between "could have avoided" and "at fault." The cyclist absolutely should have been more prudent and avoided the accident, but was NOT at fault. The rider followed the rules of the road--the car did not. Therefore the car is at fault.

Did the rider follow the rules of the road?

One of them is not run into the back of someone

another is not to overtake on the right, I believe.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Here's my 2 cents. The truck was wrong. He deserves a ticket for failing to signal or yield. I'm betting the law allows that cyclist the right of way in the bike lane. The truck must signal and yield to a vehicle in the lane, whether it be a car or a cyclist. The truck failed to signal and yield to another vehicle in the right lane (the bike lane in this case). If you are turning right from the left lane of a highway across the other lane you must yield to cars in the right lane, you can't just turn and expect everyone to stop for you. Same thing here, he technically cut off that other vehicle (cyclist).

Now for common sense: No way am I passing that truck on the right. I'm looking at all the dirt on the truck (I'm sorry but that says something right there), the gas station, the truck slowing.....I either slow down or pass on the left, which you are allowed to do in most states. Cyclists can pass on either the left or right.

BTW - the cones were only on the exit side of the driveway into the gas station. They were placed to prevent vehicles from coming out of the station not into the station.

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Paul

The brain is fascinating and does some really weird shit!
Im glad my sons epilepsy is controlled with medications so he doesnt need such a drastic intervention.

Yay science!

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Yet another impatient driver operating an oversized carbon belcher in an unsafe manner. Surprise, surprise. But don't expect the driver to get a ticket because anti-biker bias is still a dominant theme in America, unlike Europe where bikers are welcome.

Also, I'm not sure the race organizers had properly secured the course. If the cone in the driveway was supposed to stop traffic from turning right, was that sufficient? Apparently not. so I'd say race organizer negligence appears to be contributing cause.

I've been hit 7 times, so, yes, I have an axe to grind!

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

LEGALLY the driver might be at fault. But the fact of the matter is, if you ride like that guy was riding, odds are you are going to get hit at some point.

Like others have said a car ahead with brake lights on means trouble, you should be thinking that something unexpected can happen, stay left. When the right turn indicator came on further proof that going right might not be such a good idea.


It's been my experience that cars overtaking you and wanting to turn right have a hard time judging your distance and often speed up a bit and make the turn thinking you are still far enough away to do so safely. I would never stay right in that situation, even if I had to brake hard and drop back then go left.


Both equally at fault.


Ron W.

If the cyclist was a motorcycle rider, the truck would be held at-fault.

Obviously. But I think the legalities are important. Because we don't want cars on the road driving like that--it's dangerous. So it's necessary to both ride defensively and emphasize to drivers that they have a responsibility to avoid us.

Glad he is ok but....

The rider hit the vehicle, not the other way around. Signal or not you don't pass on the right. Race or not you slow down if a car in front of you slows down.

Should the driver get a ticket for not signalling, yes. Should the rider accept the blame for hitting the vehicle after trying to pass on the right, yes. It is pretty clear in the video that the vehicle could only be doing one of two things, stopping or turning right, there is no left turn possible.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

That wasn't a bike lane and it's illegal to pass on the right when there is no lane (at least in NY, and the shoulder doesn't count) . The truck has no requirement to yeild to traffic behind. So while the truck failed signal; the bike failed to yeild, followed too closely and tried to make an illegal pass.

Not true, if the biker had an expectation that no right hand turns by vehicles would be allowed into businesses. If I were on the jury, I'd hammer that driver. He's too stupid to be driving.....

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

The problem I have with this particular guy's move is that he's directly behind the truck almost until the last second, and then moves to the right AFTER the truck slows. Because of this I'm willing to give the driver a considerable benefit of the doubt.

Assuming the driver knows the cyclist is going to pass on the right - what should they do? Typically they should probably brake harder so that they don't drive right past the entrance to the gas station. But if the cyclist is NOT going to pass on the right and is correctly anticipating that the driver wants to turn right, chances are they're going to remain behind the truck and any hard braking might force the cyclist to emergency brake or crash right into the back of the truck.

The driver, if they saw the cyclist in their mirror, is in a tough position here. Either they continue what's a legal move, or they make an equally dangerous sudden stop. Of the cyclist's 3 options (left right or middle), passing on the left is clearly the only safe option.

As a cyclist I would MUCH prefer if drivers make predictable moves that aren't out of the ordinary. That right turn is a very predictable, ordinary move. A sudden brake to let a cyclist pass on the right is not.

x2 if it was real time video if the cyclist was paying attention he should have had enough time to react. Although the excursion should have signaled a turn. But to me it looks like the cyclist was not paying attention andnhad his eyes only looking a few feet ahead most likely.

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as I mentioned originally, I don't know the law of the state the accident happened in, but from my state and auto claims background (no longer in that position) - the rider is at fault and is the primary cause of the accident and had the due care to avoid. If I'm the insurance company for the truck, I'm not paying a dime for the bike and injuries of the rider.

thanks for that Jack, but not the issue. I think my mother must have dropped me on my head too many times as a child or forced me to be a righty instead of lefty and my mind rebels. I hit better left handed than right, left eye dominant, etc.

Can anyone say for sure that the turn signal wasn't on? It's hard to even see the brake lights in that vid, and it aoppears that the right one does change, but hard to tell for sure.

I only pass on the right in a bike lane, if there are no driveways and no intersections and no parking allowed, and even then I pay extra attention to the vehicles I am passing. being able to quickly bunny hop a curb is a usefull skill.

clearly, the cyclist in this vid was not in the bike lane before he went into it to try and avoid hitting the vehicle. unless he had the camera on a stick jutting out 5' to the left(i double checked that before typing right this time)

Where would this expectation come from? Any race I've been in has always said to watch out for traffic.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

and what open to traffic course has that ever been instituted on ??

What are the chances this guy does most of his riding on the trainer?

while vid taping himself doing so

The driveways are all coned? That might be a hint!

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Plenty. Usually turns by traffic are strictly controlled by police officers. This guy was just an impatient prick.....

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Bike Rule #2 - Course is open to auto traffic...keep alert.

http://www.3rrr.org/maps/TManRules2010.pdf

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Your wrong, the car was clearly pass the cyclist. Cyclist should have been paying attention to what was ahead of him. The cyclist came up from behind. Maybe he just did not have enough "stopping power" in his choice of brakes and pads :0) wonder what kind he is/was using?

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It is funny how cyclists always complain how cars will not wait for them, however, cyclists never respect a car's right of way either!

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Ride Scoozy Electric Bicycles
http://www.RideScoozy.com

Where are the comments about being in the aerobars? The video doesn't show much evidence of head movement indicating he was still in his aero tuck as he passed the car with his hands far away from the brakes. I'd be coasting and getting ready to pass on the left here with my hands close to the brakes. If he had quick access to his brakes it seems like there might have been time to do something other than slide into the side of the car...

maybe its different in the here in the UK with driving on the "right" side of the road :-) but I'm not massively sure what the issue was. Did the guy on the bike undertake a car that then happened to turn into a driveway that had cones on? If so as has been said I think the bike wasn't looking far enough ahead to see the car slowing otherwise he was a total fool for undertaking a car, like I say in the UK you would overtake not undertake? Shame anyone came off he was OK enough to post the video though although not sure I would have made it public.

Ordinarilly, I would agree with you. If this was just some cyclist going down the road, clearly this could have been avoided as he was overtaking the car from a long distance back and it was clear the car was slowing down and wasn't going to check for a cyclist.

With that being said, this was a race. IF there are cars allowed on the course it is incumbant on them to avoid ALL contact with any of the cyclists on the road and excercise extra care. Yes this means check, double check and triple check before making a right hand turn. If anyone disagrees with this then I'll start taking offers to go out with a big truck and block up your competitors for you on your next Tri.

At 25 mph you are asking a lot of a cyclist to expect him to stop for an unexpectedly turning vehicle in front of him. He obviously slowed some as he was mostly unhurt, but this driver was a BONEHEAD. Just my humble opinion. I'd take his license and make him ride a bike to work every day for a year.... ;) He needs an attitude adjustment, as do most drivers and some cyclists.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Amen!

Thank you!!

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

So you don't think the cyclist was an equal bonehead for choosing to pass on the RIGHT instead of the LEFT? He did have a choice. Why the hell would the car slow coming up to a gas station if he didn't intend to turn right?

So you expect a member of the public to give a damn about some race?! His only interest was getting gas. The roads were open, the racers need to take care and assume the worst scenario.

know your open course or suffer the consequences. officers are there to aid the traffic situation and one should never count on them to stop all for the mighty racer. if you expect that, expect to get hit. I've seen police officers motion racers to stop for cross traffic. i've seen directed traffic not follow what officer indicates to do, cuz it isn't what they plan to do and officer may or may not have misinterpreted what drivers intentions were.


lots of drivers are pricks, and percentagewise more cyclists are. how does calling names help. it was a bad lack of judgement moment on the part of the cyclist. you can't expect to dart in and out of the lane you want for your own selfish needs(road, no wait, bike lane, and back) and think the other guy is the bad guy.


How about the cyclist doesn't come flying up behind a slowing object that can severely injure him without having a safe escape route. Hint, that isn't diving into the bike lane to pass on the right at the last moment, as that is clearly not a safe escape route.


We cyclists just love to be our own worst enemies.

The camera wad strapped to the bike, thays how you manage to see the rider when he gets up off the pavement. Nice try though sherlock, :)

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

I think the cyclist is racing and thinking he has the right of way as no turns were allowed. I've seen plenty of bone-headed moves by cyclists in races -think Clearwater Championships-but in this case I come down on the side of the cyclist by a wide margin. No issue for me.

Anyway, where is the guy who got hit? I'd like to hear his side of the story. Maybe he'll say he was talking to his agent on his cell phone when he hit the truck. New facts might change the result. ;)

You guys do race triathlons, right? ;)

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Why are you assuming no turns were allowed? Do you think the gas station owner wouldn't cry bloody murder if they were expected to shut down the entrance to their business for a whole morning?


You still didn't answer why the guy couldn't have passed on the left. It was OBVIOUS what the driver was doing and the cyclist moved into the once place that guaranteed he'd be hit. It's almost like he WANTED to be hit.

Probably looking at the gas prices as he drove his money hungry fossil fuel grabbing monster.

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If the truck was a naked woman, nobody would be talking about brake lights.

Like I said, if you are going to allow cars on a race course, then it is up to them to avoid the cyclists. You certainly can't expect a racer to slow down or stop to avoid cars during a race. Otherwise i'll start taking some offers to block up competitors for the next race. You can't expect to have a meaningful race if cars are allowed to interfere with cyclists.

Stupid Triathlete all the way.

This all happened in about 5-8 seconds. Give the cyclist a break here. We may have the reflexes of Superman but, sheezh..... You guys are acting as though this wasn't a race but some Sunday training ride. He didn't expect the turn, so why move left? If he had moved left he could have been hit as the guy turned left as well. Sheezh....The driver probably has 50 tickets....I'd love to see his 'rap' sheet. ;)

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

The year I participated in this race, the director made specific mention in the pre-race briefing that the roads were open to traffic and that we were to follow all traffic rules, except for at intersections where uniformed officers were directing traffic.

it's not motorists being allowed on a race course, it a race being allowed/permitted to use a road open to traffic. traffic follows all of its normal operations. racers are allowed to share, not given priority.

it's a wonder............

You need to pay attention when you are on the bike, period. Triathletes are no smarter then anyone else on the road. I see more stupid cyclists on the road then anyone else.

The point is he SHOULD HAVE expected the turn. He's an idiot for not expecting it. What else would the driver be doing, slowing down near a gas station? My opinion is if this guy were actually a decent cyclist, the 'shoulder check + drift left and pass left' should be reflexive. The move he made was completely boneheaded and he paid the price.

R U kidding me.. Cyclist approaching from the rear of a vehicle in front of him and then decided to pass on the rt and you think the driver of the car is at fault?? Sorry, have to take an alternative position.. I know of no State MV laws that give cyclist more rights on the road just because a race is in session. Most State MV laws clearly state that cyclist are treated as a Motor Vehicle. Therefore passing on the rt would be illegal. He should have slowed when he saw brake lights until he figured out what the driver was up to, or passed on the left. In anycase.. if you are overtaking another vehicle period, you have the higher degree of due care.

Two facts:
- He's not using the bicycling lane at all. He's driving on the road which is fine. But then you can't pass a car on the right. You're allowed to do this when you are using a bicyling lane.
- The car DOES SIGNAL and the brake lights were on long enough (He didnt hit the brakes super hard but rather slowed down normally)

To me a 100% cyclist fault. He had to brake as well and pass on the left.

this. I can't count the number of times I'm out riding and I get passed by a cyclist while I'm waiting at a red light - they just blow through and sometimes give me a look like I'M the idiot for actually obeying the rules of the road. I see an amazing number of boneheaded moves by cyclists every day.

I'm all for more cycling infrastructure, better laws to promote safety - but as a group we often don't do ourselves any favors. I think Robert is displaying the same sense of entitlement that a lot of cyclists seem to have - "I can ride however I want and if I get hit it's ALWAYS the driver's fault".

Then don't call it a race because it's closer to the gumball rally than a real race.

I just watched the video like 5x. Honestly, the more times I watch the video the more it doesnt look like its the cyclist's fault. The truck is way left, and it slows down. The cyclist likely would have had to cross the yellow line to pass. I am also pretty sure the cyclist couldnt see in front of the truck, so the truck could have been slowing down for any number of reasons. It looked pretty darn safe to pass on the right.

Further, whos to say the truck wouldnt have turned left if the cyclist passed on the left?! Then everyone would be saying how stupid the guy was for not trying to pass on the right.

That's what the turn signal is for. Duh.
Also, who says he HAD to pass? He should've slowed down and waited for the turn. Just like a car would've done it.

The cyclist was in a no win situation.

If he had passed on the left he would have needed to cross the double yellow, which is not only illegal but can get you a penalty. If he had been hit by a car head on people would have said he's a darwin award candidate.

His only safe choice was to slow down and stay behind the car until it turned.

Actually, the safer choice is to stick with triathlons that have closed courses.

Passing on the right is an accident waiting to happen. On a positive note, it was nice to see a couple competitors stop at the scene.

Wrong! If a motorcycle rider was using the dedicated Bike Lane or shoulder of the road, especially to pass on the inside, he/she would be 100% at fault. That said, a motorcyclist likely would be well aware of what the vehicle in front is doing (which, IMO, is clearly signalling a right turn), and would NOT attempt to pass this vehicle on the right.

This is just a case of a zoned out tri-ath-a-lete making a bad decision. Should the driver of the Excursion have been a little more aware of his/her surroundings? Perhaps. So too should the rider! There was plenty of time to avoid this collision and pass on the left.

All else fails, see this:

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"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon

Hold the phone... if the car was turning left, would it have been ok for the cyclist to pass right? My guess is, had that car turned left, and the cyclist didnt get hit, and the GoPro video was posted, noone woulda squawked.

Also, to the above poster... was the turn signal on? The article says no, and its very difficult to tell in the video. To me, it doesnt appear to be on???

It's unclear how a permitted race changes Washington State bicyclists' rights and responsibilities:

• Riding on the Road - When riding on a roadway, a cyclist has all the rights and responsibilities of a vehicle driver (RCW 46.61.755). Cyclists who violate traffic laws may be ticketed (RCW 46.61.750).
  
  
• Riding Side by Side - Cyclists may ride side by side, but not more than two abreast (RCW 46.61.770).
  
  
• Shoulder vs. Bike Lane - Cyclists may choose to ride on the path, bike lane, shoulder or travel lane as suits their safety needs (RCW 46.61.770).

Depending on one's goals, it might be risky or pointless to race on open roads.

I've watched the video many times to see if I can see any turn signal. Don't think so - you do see the taillight change but that I think is more about breaking.

The truck is slowing down, and the likely place it is going is to the right as there is nothing on the left side of the road. Bad choice by the cyclist.

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I'm competing against my current fitness level, and planning to kick my a**!

I cant see the video, as it does not seem to play for me; but I have read all the comments describing it.

For all those that say you can not pass on the right....

Yes you can, when a car is making a left hand turn; you certainly can make a legal right hand pass.

If there were NO TURN SIGNALS by the auto; how is one to know which side to go to...the right or the left...Now, this also would argue that the cyclist should have just slowed down...well, that I would have to defer to someone else in terms of legality, and liability; as I just dont know.

Also, since cyclists are required to stay as far to the right as reasonable during normal operation on the road; and since autos can pass cyclists on the left; would that not argue that the shoulder DOES represent a 'bike lane'?

I guess I really need to see that video to see the specifics.

Stephen J

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Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

You hit it on the head -- "his only safe choice" -- so that's what he should have done. Other drivers/riders on the road make dumb decisions or mistakes regularly, but whether you are in a car or on a bike, you have to do what's safe, not compound it with a mistake of your own.

In this instance, the cyclist entered the shoulder at speed to pass on the right a slowing vehicle in front of him. It sucks to be put in the position that the cyclist was in -- racing an open course with cars and trucks, the driver slowed but didn't signal before turning. The cyclist was in a race, so sure he doesn't want to slow down. But the fact is that he should not have just passed (on right or on left) a slowing or stopped vehicle without finding out what's going on. Is the truck turning? Is the truck stopping because of something in the road? The cyclist doesn't know, he has to slow down until he knows what is going on. Then he can make the safe decision. I haven't raced an open course, but don't you have to look at this situation in the same way that you would look at it for a training ride?

If the race director doesn't get permits to close the road to motor vehicles, then the law requires that cyclists behave according to motor vehicle law. That means no passing on the right (except when normally permitted), and exactly expecting cyclists to slow down or stop to avoid cars during the race. It is not up to motor vehicles to avoid legal road users (cyclists and other motor vehicles) who are behind them. Is it prudent? Of course, just like at any other time.

That they are in a race on open, public roads doesn't mean jack. You can go onto any road course and do any bone-headed legal driving maneuver you want.

No wonder cyclists get a bad name.

(One reason I, after some 25 years of racing bikes and triathlons and training on the road have never crashed is because I act like a motor vehicle and expect drivers to do stupid or unaware things)

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"Go yell at an M&M"

X2. I had a woman turn in front of me last summer, no signal. I hit the back of her BMW. If she had signaled, I would have been liable under the (BC) Motor Vehicle Act. However, she hadn't, she realized her mistake and left - albeit grumpy.

When on the road on my bike, I am subject to the same set of laws that apply to motor vehicles, at least in my jurisdiction. I suspect it is the same in WA.

Not a lot of sympathy from me on this one.

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

Actually, the safer choice is to stick with triathlons that have closed courses.

The rider ended up running his bike all the way to transition; three miles in his bare feet and three miles in borrowed shoes.

Closed courses are better, but the guy must have really wanted to finish this one.

"I've been hit 7 times"

Robert,
You might want to ask yourself if maybe there are things you could change about the way you ride that will keep that number at 7, and from your posts here it seems a major one might be not assuming that right of way protects you at all. It doesn't matter to me if the car was right or wrong, what is important is whether or not there were things he could have reasonably done to prevent the crash, and clearly the answer is yes. If you pass a car on the right, you are performing a dangerous move and should be ready for a turn, doors opening, whatever.

In reality, the biggest potential danger here is that the SUV is slowing down to let an oncoming car turn into the parking lot that can't see you/you can't see because of the SUV. The last thing you want on your gravestone is "He was so right".

I'm not sure why this is surprising or controversial in any way.

The "apparent facts" based on the video footage:

Open course
Car obviously slowing in front
Place of business ahead on the right
Cyclists attempts to pass on the right
Car fails to signal, but makes a legal right hand turn into a place of business
Cyclist that put self in a bad position gets hit

Yes, the driver should have signalled. But that's the only thing (s)he did wrong. A glance in the rear/side view mirror prior to the turn would have shown the athlete in close proximity behind the vehicle - there was no way to anticipate that the rider would attempt to squeeze the gap and pass on the right.

That athlete is lucky he didn't get hurt.

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

That's because it's perfectly legitimate for a legal road user to pass another road user on the right if the othe road user is making a left turn, and the passing road user stays on the road to do so. It's one of the couple of exceptions to the "no passing on the right" law (another being in stop-and-go traffic on a multi-lane road).

Please tell me you just got your learner's permit.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Fixed it for you.

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I'm competing against my current fitness level, and planning to kick my a**!

Don't know about washington but in NY state is is 100% illegal to enter a shoulder to pass on the right. A bike is a vehicle in the law's eye so it's also 100% illegal for a bike to pass on the right on a shoulder. A shoulder is not a bike lane (which is a lane of travel and you can pass on the right in it)

I think the car may have signaled. It's hard to tell, but it looks like the right brake light is flashing.

I wouldn't put that to the test:


http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/...chapter06-manual.htm

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I'm an avid cyclist and avid hater of cell phone talkin SUV drivers. I 99% of the time error on the side of the cyclist, but in this case I think the cyclist showed 0% common sense (passing a car on the right, with brake lights on, cyclist not slowing down, inattentive to surrounding aka business to the right). I get that it is a race and that athletes think they own everything on raceday but come on that is a 4000 pound vehicle and he/she showed no respect for the fact that it could kill him in less than a second and that his little carbon TT bike would not even scratch the bumper. He is lucky he didn't get his head ran over by the SUV.

You are 100% correct! We are invisible to traffic even with bright clothes, blinky lights, and obvious race going on. If we as cyclist would ride like we are invisible maybe we wouldn't have to read about cyclist getting killed everyday.

Like I said, if you are going to allow cars on a race course, then it is up to them to avoid the cyclists.Otherwise i'll start taking some offers to block up competitors for the next race.

One could equally say that if you are going to allow triathletes to race on an open road, it is up to them to obey all traffic laws. Wait! What? That sounds exactly what I've been told everytime I've raced on an open course.

You certainly can't expect a racer to slow down or stop to avoid cars during a race.

Yes, you can. On an open course, both competitors and motorists have an equal obligation.

You can't expect to have a meaningful race if cars are allowed to interfere with cyclists

I'm not aware of any race where cars are allowed to interfere with cyclists. But cars aren't allowed to interefere with cyclists when it's not a race either.

Open course races are a necessary reality. Without them, permits are not granted. That there may be some traffic direction and course marshalling on an open course doesn't relieve triathletes of responsibility on an open course. And if that means there are occasions where safety and traffic laws trump strategy and competitive drive, then so be it.

I've heard the same speach at every open course race I've done.

Those all sound like the same decisions a triathlete must make on a crowded course if he doesn't want to get caught drafting, blocking, etc.

actually 9000 pound vehicle. especially with those wheels.

I'm really sorry that you were hurt in several auto/cyclist accidents, but you're clearly biased (as you admitted) and are letting that blind your opinion here. What on earth about the known facts of this situation would give the cyclist a REASONABLE expectation that vehicles wouldn't be allowed to make right hand turns into business?
I am all for holding cars responsible for their actions and the injuries caused, however, but the driver but for failing to signal and failing to use better judgment and stay off a race course (which apparently was left open to traffic) did nothing wrong. I've been in races where cars were whizzing by me and while I knew they were traveling too fast, it didn't mean they would be at fault if I veered into their lane. The cyclist clearly failed to take responsible, evasive maneuvers to avoid a collision and instead as the video showed kept hammering away as he passed on the right. Fault is clear (and it should be noted that I am a former personal injury attorney who is always looking to hold someone responsible for the injuries they cause).

I don't believe anyone has alluded to a left blinker in this particular video.

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you know my name, look up my number
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Our requirements to obtain a drivers license and also keep a drivers license are not stringent enough.

Cyclists are not defensive enough.

Just another example of human stupidity.

In California if you are riding in the bike lane "I believe you have the right of way" meaning a car should look before turning into a drive way or making a right hand turn.....anyway drivers Ed 101 LOOK BEFORE TURNING. Passing on the right as far as I'm aware is for cars not bikes in a bike lane. I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will let me know.

Was it the smartest move by the cyclist NO but that does not make it his fault. There were cones and other racers on the road, the person driving the car should of been paying attention.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

Some state do allow passing on the right in the shoulder area. This seemed odd to me when I moved to Delaware as other places this was not allowed, but Delaware does allow you to pass left turning vehicles on the shoulder. That means you have to be careful as a cyclist as you aproach a car turning left. Another vehicle may pass you and immediately move into the shoulder in front of you and may slow down. It is always good to know what is around and what people might do.

The other thing people do here that is not legal, but most do it is to pass on the right a string of cars slowed down/stopped waiting for a light. They use the right shoulder and make a right hand turn, but they pull in hundreds of feet before the right turn lane starts. You have to watch for that too.

I just wanted the above to be repeated.

I don't think the video (as posted) shows enough. Where is the cyclist looking? Did the truck just recently pass him? How far away is the truck at the "start" of the video (GoPro wide angle can make things look much further away than they are)? Was a blinker used?

I know that cars will pass a cyclist, then immediately make a right turn into or directly in front of the cyclist. This happens to me all the time (so I'm ready for it). Someone who isn't experienced in open road riding may not expect someone to give him the "right hook". It's a messed up situation.

Be careful!

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

1. I'm not sure that was a bike lane -- a solid white line, in itself, does not make it so.

2. Even if it was a bike lane, the cyclist was not riding in it. It wasn't until the last second, when he attempted to past, that he moved into the "lane."

I'd say both the motorist and the cyclist share fault.

I don't see the car signaling the turn. Also, it would appear there were at least 3 other cyclists riding along the stretch of road so the car should have been looking out for cyclists before making that turn.

It also happened in the span of 2 seconds. If the cyclist is even going as slow as 20, that is just not enough time to hit the brakes and react to the car slowing and turning. Up till that point in time in the video the car looked like any other car going along the road and it lookes like he decided at the last second to turn in - hence why he hit his brakes and didn't signal. You can't ride under the assumption that every car that passes you is going to suddenly stop and turn into you. Legally, you are supposed to give adequate warning to other motorists that you are turning. Slaming your brakes on and turning without signalling will get you a ticket.

+1

Having been hit 7 tims by vehicles is not a badge of honor. That kind of experience doesn't tell me that you know the rules of hte road and how to ride safely. In fact, it tells me the opposite.

The person to whom I responded said it was legal in NYS, so I quoted the NYS driver manual that said it isn't.

It's a jungle out there.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

1. I'm not sure that was a bike lane -- a solid white line, in itself, does not make it so.

2. Even if it was a bike lane, the cyclist was not riding in it. It wasn't until the last second, when he attempted to past, that he moved into the "lane."

I'd say both the motorist and the cyclist share fault.
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In Cal that would be a bike lane.

I agree that coming from behind and making a sudden move to the right of the car is not smart. Still I did not see a right turn signal.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

I have been telling my kids the same thing for a long time. When you are driving it's not the dum things you do that will kill you it's the dum things they do, that will.

So having watched the video a couple of times, and speaking from a bikers perspective.

1 The vehicle is slowing down, brake lights are on.
2 there's a entrance to a gas station there.
3 where would you anticipate the vehicle was going.
4 don't go there.

Hope the bikes ok, but that was a losing proposition.

the cyclist is at fault.

andrew

I agree This should be named cyclist Hits vehicle. Poor choice to pass on the right. I guess I could see this if the cyclist had his head down.

Hardly a case for discussion. When the course is open to traffic we are to respect the rules. So no passing on the right especially in a corner. I understand that in a race sometimes we lack common sense. He screwed up. Simple. Glad nobody seems hurt.

I was looking for the sign that it's a bike lane as well, and didn't see anything. Regardless, the fact that they moved into it so late and didn't establish a lane sends the drive mixed signals-drivers that are already not paying attention and not knowledgeable/respectful of traffic/bike laws are now confused. Tough for them to know how to act and react appropriately at that point. Glad/hope all is ok with the rider-a hard lesson to learn and a good reminder that we are all too often at the mercy of vehicle traffic and their decisions.

Maybe this should be a different threat but a couple issues seems to be what we consider "legal or ok"

1) In California that white line means a bike lane, no sign needed. Sounds like other parts of the country that's not the case.

2) Passing; car making a right turn into a drive way, if driver puts on his right turn signal should cyclist stop or move into traffic(pass on the left) to let said car to turn? Same goes for right hand turn at an intersection.

If we can't agree on what's legal or ok...no wonder we're getting killed.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

I admire those of you who treat a race like a ride. Signal things etc. I just do not know anyone who does this. People I know ride in a very safe manner, they race all out. Most drivers when knowing a race is going on drive in a more aware manner. Every course is not closed but should have enought signs etc. so drivers know a race is going on. This brings me to another point .....How many of you guys really race : ) ???

So how do you guys on the Left Coast delineate a breakdown lane/side street parking/etc? Or do you just default to bikes staying to the right of the solid right line?

As for the video, I would like to see the 30 seconds before the start of this one. How did that truck legally pass the bike on that road to start with?

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

I admire those of you who treat a race like a ride. Signal things etc. I just do not know anyone who does this. People I know ride in a very safe manner, they race all out. Most drivers when knowing a race is going on drive in a more aware manner. Every course is not closed but should have enought signs etc. so drivers know a race is going on. This brings me to another point .....How many of you guys really race : ) ???
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Good point.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

Here is a google maps link of the location. http://g.co/maps/wuj8d

Note that the course takes a 90 degree right turn at the stop sign about 50 feet from where the wreck occurred. It's hard to tell from google, but this is at the end of a long gradual descent coming down out of wheat field and grape vineyard country.

Are you a pro? Are you depending on race winnings to feed yourself and your family? Didn't think so. Rule #1 is don't do stupid shit that will end up with you injured/dead, when it's just a hobby.

X2

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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, covered in scars, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'hell yeah', what a ride.

So how do you guys on the Left Coast delineate a breakdown lane/side street parking/etc? Or do you just default to bikes staying to the right of the solid right line?
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They stop the white line at intersections but not drive ways or street parking etc. You can pull into a parking spot, turn into a drive way(cross the white line) but not drive in it. At major intersections they break it down to a dotted white line making ok to enter and turn.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

Are you a pro? Are you depending on race winnings to feed yourself and your family? Didn't think so. Rule #1 is don't do stupid shit that will end up with you injured/dead, when it's just a hobby.
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I don't think that was his point. Just if there is any race with cones lots of activity people should be aware.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

I learned the hard way, about 12 years ago, when I decided to pass on the right at an intersection. The car had no signals on, and was waiting for another car to turn left. As I was passing the car started up and turned right and hit me.

I was cited for passing on the right. I made the argument ... but, she didn't have her turn signal on! I tried to contest it, and the magistrate was actually sympathetic, because people do this (pass on the right) all the time in cars. But the law was clear.

There should be no question here. It's the cyclist's fault, as much as that sucks.

Even if the state law does allow passing on the right in some circumstances, it surely wouldn't apply to passing a moving vehicle about to make a right turn.

A very similar incident happened here recently. I asked the RCMP what the deal was. Bearing in mind this is Canadian Police, they said:

A dedicated, marked bike lane is reserved exclusively for bicycles. At intersections, however, a right hand turning lane merges into, and across bike lanes because there's no other way to facilitate a right turn by motorists. It is the duty of both the motorist and cyclist to be aware of the other. The motorist must yield to the cyclist when crossing into the bike lane by signaling their intent of a right turn, or must allow the cyclist to pass. Once the motorist is crossing the bike lane, the cyclist must yield until the motorist moves out of the bike lane to turn right at the intersection. Motorists should observe the same rules regarding cyclists as they do with other motorists and cyclists must think of themselves as motorists and observe the Motor Vehicle Act regulations when in traffic (ie: not ride on sidewalks, use proper hand signals, cross oncoming lanes at intersections). Cyclists should go the extra step and make themselves as visible as possible by wearing bright colors or using flashing lights on their bikes, as poor visibility is often a contributory factor in cyclist/motor vehicle collisions.


In the Go Pro video I believe the truck does not indicate when crossing into the bike lane failing to signal their intent.

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

I had something similar happen to me in the Big George HIM this past Sunday.

The Sheriff had the traffic stopped at an in-town intersection where I was to turn right. The volunteer waved me through with one of those orange flags and this older dude stopped in the middle lane panicked and thought the volunteer was waving him to turn right. So he shot across the turning lane in front of me. Lucky for me I saw it happening and cut left and swung wide as the Sheriff screamed at the guy to stop. Near miss but I can't say the old dude was 100% to blame. It was obvious there was a race going on but that old timer was just doing what he does every Sunday for the last 40 years got caught up in the middle of a bike race.

Probably the most excitement he has had in years, cops and his old lady yelling at him at the same time.

I agree we should be careful signal go slower and really watch out during a race, I just said I do not know anyone who does during a race and I do not see people doing this. Just thinking someone is racing gets passed by a car the car then signals a turn the racer stays behind car slows down hand signals at the turn and is really careful at all driveways etc. You people are the smart ones. To hell with time and racing just be safe. It looks like most of the people responding do this. Oh!!! I have a question.... How many of you really race : ) ?????

Except the cyclist is riding in the middle of the road, not in the bike lane. (and is it even a bike lane? not clear frm the short clip whether it is, or whether that is just the edge line for the road). He doesn't enter the lane until he veers to try to go around the car.

I'm also a retired lawyer, but that's irrelevant. In this case the driveway was coned, the truck driver failed to signal, the entire incident happened in about 5-8 seconds, the racer is in aerobars and is RACING. The driver knows a RACE is happening, but he didn't care to exercise reasonable caution as exhibited by his failure to wait to turn, use a turn signal, and probably shouldn't have been turning at all. But, you also ignore a major problem cyclists have with cars on the highway, which is that drivers, and particularly the "I'm the fucking king of the road" style of vehicle driven by this bozo, have a major attitude problem. This driver passed the cyclist and purposely turned right in front of him expecting him to stop notwithstanding his sudden irresponsible behavior. Am I biased in favor of cyclists? Yes, and I hope everyone here is also 'biased'. And, anyone who says they are not biased at all is full of shit. Please spare me your condescension....and curriculum vitae.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Look again, those are brake lights flashing briefly, not a turn signal. The car also almost stopped as he/she decided whether to turn into the station.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Maybe this is the difference between a triathlete and a roady?

A roady would have completely avoided that collision and never mentioned it to anyone because nothing of any consequence occurred there. The triathlete videotapes the completely avoidable collision that happened during a completely idiotic maneuver and posts it for the world to see.

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Erik
Strava

this may have been mentioned, I didnt read through all 6 pages of comments but if you watch the video again and make it full screen, I'm fairly certain the driver has a turn signal on. You can see the left brake light and if you watch the right very carefully you'll see it flash. It may be camera angle or the sun. hard to tell with all the camera movement.

Only a fucking roadie would think we were using videotape.

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

I'm all for going back to road bikes, but if you are down in aerobars then you should expect less mobility and reaction time, but in this case the biker had almost no time to respond.

Should races be open to traffic? How many times have you seen the Tour de France on the road with trucks like this guy was driving? This is part of the problem. The demand for races has far exceeded the public's willingness to tolerate a shut down for safety's sake. Our resources must be used solely for the destruction of the environment, eh, not for good health, clean air, clean water. Sheezh.....Think about the consequences of what some of you are advocating.....

But, until bikers get more proactive and fight for road space, they will continue to be marginalized in America. You only need to ride a bike in Europe to understand the difference. The Europeans have narrower roads, yet they respect cyclists. This guy in the truck doesn't respect cyclists and if he did he wouldn't have pulled such a boneheaded move.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Hey, at least nobody really got hurt (from what I can tell)
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shit, thats what I thought when I was right hooked about 0.5 secs after a passing pickup got me.
The following 9 months of pain, and impairment led to discovery of a left knee torn PCL.

Be careful out there.

Its true, no matter who's at fault, you lose.

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RayGovett
Hughson CA
Be Prepared-- Strike Swiftly -- Who Dares Wins- Without warning-"it will be hard. I can do it"

Hmmmm... I think it has to do less oxygen reaching your brain and more than usual to your legs at LT.

Sergio

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Note: English is not my first language. Please read this translated post considering that.

ha, sorry, meant to edit my earlier post and hit reply, then post.

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Erik
Strava

clever! + an f bomb. You win?

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Erik
Strava

Dude, Relax! You said it yourself that you have an axe to grind (page 2 of this thread) You clearly are upset and my comments were not "condescension" and saying I was an attorney was not a CV- my apologies were sincere and the PI atty bit was an attempt to show I tend look at accidents looking for the responsible party that has deep pockets (like car insurance companies). If you were not so biased with an axe to grind you would see the baseless assumptions you make below:
1) "truck driver failed to signal"- the video is not clear enough to see if this truck had a flashing signal or not. It appears it was flashing but it is not absolutely clear. it appears posters on this thread are torn as well;
2) "in aerobars and RACING"- RACING Does not relieve anyone (drivers or participants) of using common sense. You never pass on the right;
3) "he didn't care to exercise reasonable caution"- driver possibly/likely used his turn signal. driver turned at a slow rate of speed;
4) "fucking king of the road style of vehicle"- seriously? It's an SUV? I drive a 4 door 4WD GMC truck and my wife drives a Yukon. I don't own the road nor do I think I do but yet I have big cars. I drive them because I want to carry all of my gear, my family and my dog not because I own the world. Get over it. I believe cyclists have equal rights to the road and the vehicle I choose does not confirm nor deny that belief. It's a car not a statement. Maybe he's a rancher, maybe he has a boat or a sailboat? Seriously, an unbiased person could determine that this driver intended to hurt a cyclist because he has a big car?;
5)"bozo"- you can tell by 5-8 seconds of video that this person is a bozo? I think the cyclist utilized less caution;
6) "passed the cyclist and purposely turned right in front of him expecting him to stop...sudden irresponsible behavior."- seriously, you watch a video (5-8 seconds) and know that the driver did it on purpose and it was sudden & irresponsible? this is where your bias takes your argument off track. You make assumptions that just aren't supported. I too believe that cars are deadly to cyclists. I too believe that cars don't give us respect and I too have nearly been hit. BUT when I see something like this that was totally avoidable, I can't blame a vehicle that was lawfully using the roadway. The cyclist should have passed on the left- in fact, had the video shown the cyclist passing another racer on the right and causing a collision, would you have the same opinion that the irresponsible cyclist in front pulled to the side suddenly and irresponsibly?

You're right, I am biased in favor of cyclists, but I also know when to put it aside and realize it's not always someone else's fault.

Road riding is one thing and roadies are sometimes real good at it. TTing is different, then the bike leg of triathlon is still somewhat different. If you notice pro roadies are not real good at handling a TT bike even during major tours. The bikes are different, the position is different and aTri bike is sometimes rode at even different angles than pro TTing bikes. IMHO. Also many replys are about riding not racing. BUT we do want everyone to be safe. probably more education for everyone would help, Cars and Bikes

No problem here. It was an open road and it is the athletes responsibility to look out for traffic. It should be know by all participants on the course, or I at least hope the RD stated that it was an open course so be aware. Let the flaming begin if you do not agree.

On a side note my cousin was killed in Wisconsin a few years ago on a rolling closed course. While he fell behind and was outside of the rolling closed area and got hit and later died. Terrible accident do happen but it looks like the guy in the video is fine. Aaron, wasn't so lucky. We all have to watch out and be defensive in riding.

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Owner of a few Speed Concepts since 2011.

This is why we hear so many more "I was just riding my bike and a car hit me" comments than we used to.

A car ahead is slowing down near a driveway. I'm guessing this car is about to turn. The guy on th ebike was obviously not paying attention to his surroundings.

When you are driving your car, do you try to squeeze past a car on their right when they are about to turn right? No.

Sure, this may have been a race. The driver was just doing what most drivers do when turning right. You woul dnot expect someone to come up from behind and try to overtake you on the right.

The cyclist is totally at fault.

For those who care to analyze the road itself in more detail, go to Google Maps and enter 30171 Dallas Road, West Richland, Washington. You can even use the little yellow guy to look at the street view.

Edit: Just past the driveway, Dallas intersects with Kennedy. Who in the world was in charge of naming those streets?

I am English. We don't regard it as being clever or a bomb. I didn't aim to offend. If it helps a censored version is below and I put it in pink to add a little obviousness to the humour.

Only a roadie would think we were using videotape.

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

I was in that race and remember seeing the guy running his bike back to T2. Once the news spread of the accident, of course we all thought the driver was at fault. After seeing the video though, I'm thinking the rider should take most of the blame (if any needs to be assigned).

For what it's worth...
1) There is no formal "bike lane" there - only a shoulder.
2) I am typically doing 30-40mph coming down that hill... but am riding the brakes at the point the video starts due to the corner at the bottom
3) Just past the gas station turn in is a 90 degree right hand turn (with a stop sign) that he was flying into
4) The race director gave explicit instructions that every intersection would be controlled and that we could "blow through the stop signs"
5) I would bet that the rider anticipated the vehicle to be turning right at the stop sign, not into the gas station (even if a blinker and brake lights were visible)

Bottom line... it was an unfortunate accident that occurred in the "heat of the moment" of racing.

No mention that these 3 dudes were obviously drafting?
And totally athletes fault here. As the car slowed down he immediately went right to pass.

Point 5 makes it make a little more sense. Anyone following Point 4 is a little naive and I bet he will not be following that advice again.

+1 on the heat of the moment for the guy though its just one of those things

biker should have moved to the left i agree

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Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO

I finally did get a chance to look at the video, and the cyclist just made a poor choice. He was behind the auto, and should have slowed down until he figured out which way it was going to turn; or what it was doing. In terms of fault; I would have to put that one on the cyclist in this case...It really sucks for that racer, and it is a bummer all the way that it happened, but it was just an unfortunate mistake that he chose to drift right rather than drift left when the car started to slow down.

Stephen J

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I believe my local reality has been violated.
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Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

Video is great. Boy is this one has amazing clarity, literally and figuratively.


The fault in this video is so clear to me. Let's turn it around, a bike should be treated like a car, right?


If the bike was turning right and the car plowed into them whose fault would it be?


We spend so, so many hours cycling in training that I find it completely amazing this accident would ever happen. If I rode like what is in this video I would not last a season. I wonder if normal caution went out the window because it was a race. Now I have done things more dangerous than what I normally would do when racing. But it is calculated and I would totally accept fault if something happen.

It is not clear to me if the OP is also the person that was hit. But I am curious what the person hit thought. Do they think it was their fault? Why did they release the video?


Watching the video it is like actually riding and I just could not do that move, passing a car on the right. It just is not in me. I now come out of my aero bars, or are very prepared to, when coming on a car going the opposite way and there is a cross street to my right.

I was hit from behind 6 times and once from the side by a truck speeding in a residential area. I ride indoors for most of my rides now, with the exception of two fairly safe areas I now ride in. One of those areas is Island Beach State Park in New Jersey, which is fairly safe if you ride early and not on holidays. The roads are not safe for bikes. Period. To hold a race without closing it to traffic is idiotic. To enter a race not fully closed to traffic invites injury or worse. We are all stupid for ever having done those open races in the first place! Ditto for swimming in polluted water, or racing in China or other place where the air is badly polluted. I did Ironman UK and we swam in a muck pond full of cow shit. (Had I known in advance the race organizers were so bone headed and stupid I wouldn't have done the race.) Triathletes need to lead on these issues because we are definitely SHEEP on them now and we are the ones in danger.
If we don't fight for these issues, including space on the highways (polluted as the highway air is!), then we will eventually have to stop racing. How many people here bothered to complain to Obama or the EPA over the proposed pollution regs? Probably none. Too busy putting titanium brakes on the $10K bike?
-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Nearly all races in the UK are on open roads, it is something that you get used to and so deal with. In most places it is unrealistic to expect crystal clear water to swim in and closed roads for riding. With those requirement there would be hardly any races what so ever and those held would be astronomically expensive. As for the water at IMUK, all open water venues in the UK must pass stringent water quality tests, so obviously not as bad as you wish to portray.

Hope the guy was not hurt but he did not do himself any favors here. It sthe car's "fault" but the rider could have easily avoided this accident.

The rider was overtaking the car (he was catching it even before the car started slowing down to turn). That is always a heads up situation. While the driver in an ideal world should have been much more carefull given the obvious race going on, in the real world, no car driver is ever going to expect to be passed by a bike so the rider needs to take care of himself and stay to the left. Even if the cyclist had just gotten into the middle of the lane he would of had room to swerve to the left and miss the car as soon as he realized it was turning.

This is a great lesson in defensive cycling. Anyone who watches this and just sees a driver taking out a cyclist is missing the value in this video.

Ironman UK was closed to traffic in 2005! The water quality at that race was terrible, not to mention the start delay which was 2 hours. Horrible race. If you know so much about water quality at these races perhaps you have a copy of the water quality assessment you could post here?

You are right about not having any races because of water quality, however. Water is a precious resource, yet we let it be polluted by almost anyone. The UK is not any better than the USA in this regard. At the current level of tolerance for poor water quality we will either be dead or the viability of racing will be GONE. Something must change, including acceptance of the status quo.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

I've been living and riding in New Jersey for 28 years without once crashing (once hit by a rear view mirror, though), and your paragraph above is insane. I've never been in a triathlon in the state (or anywhere else, for that matter) in which the bike leg was closed to other traffic, yet to my knowledge nobody was hit by a car in any of those races. The only person I know who was injured in a race (a great triathlete named Roy Mabrey) was hit by a car that disregarded the police barricades that closed that portion of the course, in Florida IIRC. The one triathlete I personally knew who died on the bike did so while passing a dump truck on the right.

I ride all over Monmouth County, into Mercer County, etc. There are roads (your "highways") that I would not ride on, but they are few and far between. I survive by paying attention to everything around me, acting like a car, and anticipating every bone-headed move a drive might make.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Quote:

if the biker had an expectation that no right hand turns by vehicles would be allowed into businesses.

I know you wrote if, but why would the cyclist have any expectation of no right turns allowed when racing on what are obviously roads open to traffic?

Or seeing as you initiated the allegation maybe you should?

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

Sorry, I don't have the specifics and the race has now moved from Sherbourne to Bolton.

If you want an Ironman with good water quality, do Ironman Switzerland in Zurich. Lake Zurich is crystal clear!

Wait, stop here. How do YOU know that the driver knows a race is happening? Sure, there are bikes on the road. Is that in itself proof that a race is on? Remember, most people wouldn't know what a triathlon looked like if it smacked them in the face.


Wait to turn? Wait for what? When he started braking to turn into the gas station, the cyclist was BEHIND him. If he checked his side mirror he would have seen a clear lane. It seems to be a matter of debate whether he actually signalled or not - from the sun angle in the video this is hard to determine. And I would assume that the gas station owner, wanting the business of people driving on that road, would claim that vehicles SHOULD be turning into his place of business. That's what the driveway is there for, isn't it?


What is it, an Explorer? I don't drive one, I wouldn't buy one, but really? Maybe he's got six kids and a smaller vehicle won't work for him (or her). You're making some pretty huge assumptions about the personality of someone who you've never even seen, much less met.



There's a difference between bias and absolutely ignoring the facts of the situation in order to support your viewpoint that EVERY car/bike collision is the fault of the driver.

Newsflash: MOST car/bike collisions are partially the fault of the driver and partially the fault of the cyclist. If you keep getting hit on your bike, you are riding in a reckless manner. Period. If you think you can ride like this yahoo did, you'll probably end up seriously injured or dead - no matter who is 'right' in the eyes of the law.

I did Ironman UK in 2005 as well (and again in 2007) - I thought the water was ok, I've swam in worse (and a lot better !). And although the roads were not fully closed, most of it was on closed roads (at least in the direction we were cycling) and I saw no problems with vehicles on the course. The 2hour delay due to fog was unfortunate, but didn't affect my day too much, sometimes you just have to roll with it. I had a great day, totally enjoyed my race and went back for a second time as did many others.

After watching it a few dozen times over a couple days...

1. I don't think the cyclist was trying to pass on the right, I think he was braking and trying to get out of the way opposed to hitting the Excursion square on.

2. If it was an auto vs auto without video... There is no doubt a police officer would have cited the cyclist for 1.following too closely, 2.Careless Driving, 3. Similar - The general rule of thumb is if you hit someone from behind it is your fault.

3. I think it is pretty clear there was no turn signal. If you where in a car and could prove the vehicle in front did not use the brakes or signal via camera an Officer would cite the Excursion.

4. It is also clear the Excursion did brake before turning, but the cyclist continued and/or couldn't stop in time and caused the accident.

As much as it sucks and a turn signal would have prevented the issue, it is the cyclist fault if we use the rules of the road.

In this case the driveway was coned

Misstates evidence. (Only the exit portion of the driveway was coned; the entrance side was not.)

the racer is in aerobars

Fact not in evidence.

The driver knows a RACE is happening

Fact not in evidence.

But, you also ignore a major problem cyclists have with cars on the highway, which is that drivers, and particularly the "I'm the fucking king of the road" style of vehicle driven by this bozo, have a major attitude problem.

Relevance?

This driver passed the cyclist

Fact not in evidence.

and purposely turned right in front of him expecting him to stop

Fact not in evidence.

Am I biased in favor of cyclists? Yes, and I hope everyone here is also 'biased'. And, anyone who says they are not biased at all is full of shit. Please spare me your condescension....and curriculum vitae.

Relevance?

I'm also a retired lawyer

Emphasis on retired.

I was hit from behind 6 times and once from the side by a truck speeding in a residential area.

Getting hit that many times makes me question you more than it does the safety of riding on public roads. And to be clear, I'm not saying that riding on public roads is without danger. Anyone who rides regularly has either been involved in or knows people who have been involved in serious (or worse) collisions with vehicles, etc. But 7 times? You surely are the outlier.

To hold a race without closing it to traffic is idiotic. To enter a race not fully closed to traffic invites injury or worse. We are all stupid for ever having done those open races in the first place!
To expect any semi-populated community to close down 40k of roads for several hours so that a few hundred amateurs can indulge themselves in the expensive pasttime is idiotic. To expect business to shut down for the morning just because there's a race is also idiotic. As much as I might fight for legislation protecting cyclists or encouraging/requiring vehicles to respect cyclist, I will not fight for closed courses. If a community will allow it, or if partial closures can accommodate everyone's interests, then great.

And I've raced countless races, both triathlon and road, on roads open or partially open to traffic. And even though I'm aware of a few indicents with vehicles during those races, I've never felt that they were unsafe. And minding the motor vehicles on the road didn't impair my ability to race.

(I'll admit that in road races, the road is de facto closed for the peloton when you consider lead vehicle, follow vehicles, etc.)

Without reading all of the entries before me:

Cones to stop someone from going into a gas station??? Where is a volunteer to stop traffic there???


Jason

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*****
It's a dry heat!

MOST car/bike collisions are partially the fault of the driver and partially the fault of the cyclist.

Whenever I've crashed, whether it's been while training or, more often, during a race, I always analyze the incident to see if there's something I can learn from it -- something I could have done differently to avoid it. I can only think of one crash (in a crit) over the years that was completely unavoidable. In the others, there's always been something I could have done that would have at least increased the chances of me staying upright.

Several STers stated the biker should've passed on the left of the truck, but the truck could have just as easily been turning left as right. With no blinker, it's a 50/50.

1

There were no cones to stop vehicles from going into the gas station. Only half of the driveway was coned off. But cones or not, you bring up a good point. If you don't want vehicles entering or exiting at a certain place, you need a course marshall.

San Dimas Stage Race in CA has at least one marshall at every driveway on the approx 7+ mile loop road race course. Portions of the race are open to traffic, but it is still controlled. Portions are only open to local traffic. Every once in a while a vehicle ignores a marshall, and every once in a while a marshall makes a mistake.

It was clear that the vehicle was doing something. The cyclist should have slowed and stayed behind the vehicle until it became clear what driver was going to do. There appears to have been plenty of time for that, provided the cyclist was paying attention. It wouldn't surprise me, however, if the cyclist was in race mode with tunnel vision. Understandable, but it still puts him at least partially at fault.

Roadie-turned-triathlete so take it for what it's worth but I've encountered this situation in races and on many training rides.

In my head I'm going through the following steps (because I've had to keep my head on a swivel for 17 years of racing up to this point):
I'm quickly approaching a land yacht from behind
What are my escape options? Not right, that pinches me into the curb and forces a run-in if this guy turns right
I see brake lights which indicates car is up to "something"
Get centered in lane to broaden escape options
Feather brakes to provide a little distance between car and me
I see car is turning right
Wait until rear bumper clears and I can pass on the left while staying in my lane

So I just lost 5-8 seconds on my bike time but it was better than running 6 miles with my bike

This is my self-preservation strategy; I don't know how this plays out legally.

x2 on options. Its all about maximizing your options.

Sure, if you got all the way over to the left with an eye to passing, the truck could have turned left but even then you would have the full opposing lane to manuver into (he won't turn if its not clear of traffic). That would likely give you a shot at having enough room to at least match the truck's turn and hit the grass instead of the truck.

As we see on the video, if you pin yourself too far to the right, you have no where to go if the guy turns into the station. You don't even have enough of an angle to turn and bunny hop the curb (unless you are studdly enough to make the pro move and jump sideways).

If you shade left of middle but not all the way over to the line, you can go right or left as the situation unfolds. That would hve been the move that would have kept the cyclist racing.

The key is to always leave yourself some out. Once you pin yourself to the right curb, you are just along for the ride if the truck turns.

Ken, I just moved to New Jersey last year. All but two of my accidents happened in Florida. And, yes, I was hit from behind while riding on the right side of the road. The last time was in Orlando in the rain when an unlicensed, uninsured, and drunk (at 8:45 a.m.) female hit me from behind and almost killed me. Threw me 30 feet. I have a permanent back injury as a result. One time a guy was bending down picking up his garage remote and turned right in front of me in the bike lane. He said he didn't see me cause he was getting his remote off the floor! Fortunately I avoided serious injury in that case. Once at a race in Charlottesville, Va, a trucker tried to pass me on a narrow road going uphill. He hit me in the shoulder and push me off the road into the trees. He never stopped.

I started riding in Ohio as a kid and at 10 years of age could ride the 5 miles or so to baseball practice in East Cleveland without a worry. Today, between the pollution, the SUVs filling up the roads, the bad roads, and the bad drivers, a kid would be dead in short order. (BTW, NJ roads are some of the worst I've driven on. The state obviously doesn't have the money to keep them up.)

I'm glad you've had good experience riding in New Jersey. Yours is the experience of one. One of my motorcyle friends just sold his motorcycle after getting hit for the 3rd time. He told me it wasn't safe to ride in New Jersey and he is only about 40. Obviously, opinions vary about the conditions in NJ. Most of my friends think I'm nuts to ever ride on the roads here in Middlesex County. Mercer and Monroe are a bit more rural, so I'm guessing you are much safer down there.

Many races are closed to traffic. At Clearwater they had one lane completely closed for the October World Championships, by way of example, and Ironman UK 2005 had the roads closed, as did Half-Ironman UK 2005. St. Pete closes the roads on one side for the race down there. Ditto for the Clermont races during short course and Olympics. Yes, it's a lot to ask to expect people to give up their Tahoes for a few hours so people might engage in a non-sedentary activity...I guess.

These threads engender a lot of interest mainly out of FEAR. Everyone knows someone who was hit and almost everyone has had some close calls.

Regarding those who say it's irrelevant that a bike race was happening, they are wrong. Traffic laws, and particularly speeds, are governed by the conditions. This driver must have known a race was happening as there were police at the intersections, and extensive coning. To assume he didn't know is to ignore common sense. If it's pouring rain sideways on the New Jersey Turnpike you should slow down, by way of example. The fact people don't slow down is a sign of how conditioned we've become to speeding, ignoring traffic conditions, and engaging in selfish behavior. This driver was impatient and inattentive and I'll bet he never raced a bike in his life.

I support the biker in this case against all the people who would have us live in a world where the carbon belchers rule. When in doubt vote for the biker.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Yes, and good analysis, but all of this could have been avoided had the driver of the 6,000 pound carbon belcher engaged in conditions based driving. But, he was in a hurry, distracted probably playing Angry Birds or eating a double Mac, so he didn't care. Why do people text and drive, talk and drive, eat and drive, put on their make-up while driving, etc.? Because they can get away with it and they don't care enough for the safety of others. If you drive one of these land yachts you obviously don't care about the lung health of your fellow Americans. Get lung cancer, it's not my problem! Or, so they seem to think....or not think.

SLOW DOWN AMERICA!

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Amen!

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Yes, and good analysis, but all of this could have been avoided had the driver of the 6,000 pound carbon belcher engaged in conditions based driving.

And, if the guy riding the 21 pound carbon sequestering bike had engaged in conditions based riding, he could have avoided the crash too. It almost always takes two to tango. Since the biker is the one who will be losing skin or breaking bones, he should be more careful.

If there were any doubt, I would . . . but there's no doubt. The cyclist was at least equally at fault, and arguably more at fault.

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''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

Gee, nice of you to put your sole admission at the bottom.... Let's see, close the roads for bikers, but not for triathletes? I've never done a bike race with cars, though I admit I last did a bike race in 1984.

I'd be in favor of legislation requiring that some roads be closed at least one day a month in each county for some non-vehicular activity. Get these fat people out of their SUVs and doing something with their bodies.

In Europe, the trend is away from letting traffic in the central cities, something NYC will have to face some day. Zurich has one small lane, usually, for auto traffic. The public transport takes up most of the road space. Which is one reason why Zurich works so well in terms of efficiency, air quality, and quality of life. Americans have gone too far in the opposite direction. We've become fat, selfish, auto-centric, and insular....

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Actually - a more appropriate description would be "vehicle hit by cyclist".

If you watch the vid, it looks like the entrance may have been blocked, but the cone was moved. (it's on it's side in the vid).

Clearly the RD needs to be publicly flogged. The driver needs to lose his licence and serve hard time and the cyclist banned from all futre races since in the US accidents don't happen.

People, the car couldn't have been turning left since there wasn't a road or driveway there.

What about a U-Turn, and how would the biker, having just come off a fast downhill, be able to do the 50,000 computations the people in this thread think he should have made? LOL! Many of the racers are beginners, which is why safety is paramount, but even an experienced cyclist can make a bad judgement given 5 seconds and the effort of a race. Some of you act as though you can't remember what it's like to race....

To the guy who said the race director should be flogged, I agree.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Ah, so it's more like "the part of New Jersey in which I live" have roads that shouldn't be biked. Well, duh: much of your county is very urban. Go south of Spotswood, and everything west of there is rural and very nice. Sussex, Warren, Hunterdon, Somerset, and much of Mercer counties are outstanding for riding. There are triathlons every weekend in Burlington, Cumberland and Atlantic counties every weekend without a single road closure (except the new Atlantic City triathlon in which they are closing part of the Atlantic City Expressway!) and without any bike-car injuries of which I'm aware. And the roads in these areas are excellent: I've had exactly one flat tire this year on the roads.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

To all of you saying the cyclist could have avoided the truck, your problem is you are using common sense and self preservation.

You see, those are not valid in the 21st century.

What is valid is I am right and you are wrong. I in this case beign the cylist/triathlete/me. etc and you being anyoen who is the opposite.

End of sarcasm. I am dumbfounded at the ever increasing number of cyclists involved in collisions with cars. Like some others here, I have ridden for sport or recreation for over 25 years and have never been hit. Throw in time as a paper boy or outh, and that number goes up a number of years. I have had a few near misses. Why were they near misses? I could predict what was about to happen and go into crash avoidance mode.

How many people in the US have ever participated in a race, even a 5k? Ten percent? So how do the other 90% know how to react to a bunch of cyclists on the road? Did I miss the "what to do if there is a race on the road" portion of driver's ed?

Actually it could have been. There is a four way stop intersection not 50 feet beyond the driveway where the vehicle turned right. In fact, the bike course takes a 90 degree right turn at that intersection, so I'm sure the rider was biased towards staying right if for no other reason. He may have been simply expecting the vehicle to stop at the stop sign. Even if there was a right turn light blinking, if he assumed that the vehicle was turning at the road, rather than the driveway, he would have expected the traffic control officer to hold the car while he scooted by.

From the driver's perspective, if they checked mirrors and rubbernecked before turning, they would have seen a cyclist in the road behind them, slowing to stop at an intersection. The rider was NOT in the bike lane / shoulder section of the road. The driver would have no expectation that the rider would dart to the right and try to pass at that very moment.

Ultimately it was a bad assumption, but I don't think it's entirely as clear as it seems to some that either party was at "fault". I'd lean towards placing the bulk of responsibility on the rider, but I can see how he would have arrived at the series of decisions he made that led to the crash.

Turn signal or not, this is 90% the cyclists fault, no way you can pass there. Just idiotic. If you are not riding defensively on an open street, you deserve what you get. To ask a distracted driver (in my mind ALL drivers are distracted) of likely limited intelligence (I think most of this world is full of idiots) to be able to calculate the distance needed to turn in front of a bike moving at full speed, is asking too much. To rely on anyone but yourself to stay out of harms way while riding on the road is the surest fire way to become the next one in line at the ER. Not to mention, as an earlier poster pointed out, the cyclist HIT THE TRUCK. In a front to rear, car on car accident the driver behind is almost always found at fault as they were likely not giving enough room, I don't know how it could be different here.
Not to mention the video is inconclusive as to whether the driver used a hand signal (hey maybe he knew his turn signal is out), so I don't know how a ticket could possibly be issued.

What about a U-Turn? Great question. It's entirely possible that the driver could have decided to randomly pull a U-turn. This means that if the cyclist had been to the right, they would have been hit (car would have had to swing wide to get enough room for the turn) and if they'd been to the left, they would have been hit.

That means that as others have said, it's the cyclist's responsibility to look at the car's brake lights and see that they are doing *something*, and stay a safe distance back until it's clear what that something is!

You seem to think they should just be able to keep riding with their head down. If this is what you think racing should be, I suggest you stick to computrainer races. They seem perfect for you.

Do you have ANY evidence that the driver was speeding or distracted or otherwise not driving according to the rules of the road? When they started their turn the cyclist was BEHIND them. If they'd checked their side mirror they would have seen nothing there.

I also have a strong suspicion (given your description of being hit from behind so many times) that you can't shoulder check without swerving 3 feet into traffic.

I think it's clear that Robert has an irrational hatred of automobiles and his agenda is to find them at fault -- no matter what the circumstances might be.

This reminds me of whenver you sign up for a race the disclaimer about how the course can have traffic on it and to follow traffic laws, etc.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

This discussion isn't about my accidents, even though you seem hell bent on making it about me. It's about what happened to this cyclist in a race. Try to stay focused on the facts, notsosuperPhil.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

I think we've been through this specific case enough to see that the cyclist should have looked up the road, saw a vehicle slowing, and slowed down himself.

If the cyclist was not a cyclist and was instead a driver, what do you think they should have done?

So what is your stance on this issue?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Since we are talking about standard rules of the road here, clearly the cyclist carries most of the blame. Triathlons don't override standard road protocols.

I would add this... That biker was in a race. Race directors need to think long and hard about the degree to which they are going to control access to the bike course. If you don't have a closed course, then you don't have a race IMO. People can ride the course, but the race aspect is over. Why? Because there was no safe way to approach that car, or perhaps any car, without just slowing way down -- to a stop if necessary. The winners of the race could easily be folks that simply risk their lives for a faster time. If you have an open course, its pretty safe to assume that you aren't going to see just one car.

Requiring closed courses for every race? Congratulations, you've just killed the sport of triathlon. Do you have any suggestions for the name of this new swim/run sport that we're all going to do?

Normally, if you hit a car in front of you, you are at fault, unless a car comes flying by you and slams on its brakes, which I see all too often on roads around here. But, you need to clarify your question. If you are asking if the car had hit the cyclist in an auto race then I would blame the cyclist for being so stupid and inattentive as to cycle into their lane without giving the autos sufficient clearance.

I'd like to know a lot more about the facts here, including what signage was up warning drivers. Most races have huge posters and/or electronic billboards warning drivers. Such warnings should be sufficient for drivers to be especially careful and vigilant. Thus, my strong inclination is to find the driver negligent.

To the guy who thinks I don't like aggressive drivers in gas sucking land yachts spewing hydrocarbons into my breathing space, uh, I plead guilty as charged.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

I just want to ask something. How many people have actually raced on a "closed" course?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Hello, Kettle . . . this is the Pot . . . . . .

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''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

Nonsense! You can close one side of a road quite easily. It's done all the time in many towns across America for running races, walks, bike races, and triathlons. What IS killing triathlon is the air and water quality of so many venues is terrible. How many lakes in Florida could be certified by the State Health Department as safe for swimming? Very few. And Florida isn't the dirtiest state by far. NJ has some of the worst air pollution in the country, particularly as you get close to NYC. Southern California air pollution has gotten better, but some days it's just awful there if you have asthma or chronic bronchitis. Cleveland? Pittsburgh? Chicago? NYC? All pretty bad, AQ-wise. And what about swimming in the Hudson River? LOL! I hope no one grows an extra head after the NYC/NJ Ironman....

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

So I guess there is only one relevant question here.

Were the roads closed for this race, or not?

Tri California has a few. Alcatraz, Treasure Island, Pacific Grove, one common piece to this is that they cost more to enter.

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Brett Miller
Cydesdale Triathlon
M2 Revolution

Sometimes you have to stoop lower than your "enemy" (or opponent in an argument), or at least as low!

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

5 seconds is an eternity when it comes to the brain making calculations. Most football plays take under 8 seconds. U-Turn is out of the question since the car wouldn't have had enough room to make a U-Turn. I suppose now you're going to say he could have been making a 3 point turn, or like someone else, say he could have been turning 50 feet down the road.

I remember exactly what it is like to race, and also what it's like to have things happen in front of you. I've had a race official drive their golf cart out in front of me when I was going downhill 30+ mph. In the 5 seconds I had I was able to slow down, sit up, avoid him, and still have time to yell at him and give him the finger. You might think I just have quick reactions, but my wife, and anyone who's ever sparred me, would disagree. As she says, "You're soooo slooooooooow!" All while kicking me 15 times. :)

If you think the race director should be flogged than I think it's time for you to start racing indoors, I see an Endless Pool, a Bike Trainer, and a Dreadmill in your future.

Let me guess . . . when you practiced law, you represented plaintiffs, didn't you?

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''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

How did you reach the conclusion that whether the roads are closed is the only question at issue? You obviously have not read much of the thread.....

I'd love to hear from the cyclist and driver about all of this...and the race director.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Real estate....;) But, nice try.

The guy was racing, had an expectation that cars would be careful with all the signage, and this guy pulls right across him. At 25 mph in aerobars the kid is lucky to be alive. I go with the biker....Call me all the names in the book, but I think racers must be protected at all times if you aren't closing one side of the highway. Race director may have learned a lesson as well, but don't count on it.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Well, isnt it simple:

If the race isnt "closed", than traffic laws take affect. So if the cyclist "hit" the truck (which it obviously did), isnt he at fault? If the truck failed to signal correctly, he can be at fault as well, but I'm not sure that clears the cyclist does it?

Are we trying to make it harder than it actually is?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

No, it isn't that simple because every road rule is subject to the conditions. You don't drive 60 mph through 3 feet of water, as some girl did here 10 days ago and died. Even if the speed limit is 60 mph. If you are on notice of a hazard you must slow to accomodate the hazard. Extra caution is mandatory in all states, I'm sure. Also, the driver is armed with a deadly weapon! We haven't discussed that wrinkle yet. ;)

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

So you dont ride your bike 25 mph toward the back of a car. As much as you want to fault the driver apparently, your own logic must be held to the cyclist.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

That explains a LOT.



In any court of law, you'd lose that argument. I think in the court of public opinion you'd not only lose, you'd be run out of town on a rail.


Nah. Unlike you, I won't engage in speculation, guess-work, and fiction-writing, nor will I stoop to ad hominem attacks, despite your inconsistencies.

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''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

I do 3 - 4 Tris a year and I can think of only one since I started in 2007 that was closed to cars, that one being USAT AG Nationals. Most, if not all the others would not have happened if the road had to be closed to cars. The local governments wouldn't have allowed them.

So, at least here in New England, triathlons would mostly disappear if road closures were required.

Victor

You are the one claiming that the fact that a race was on, somehow changes the rules of the road.

The only way this would be the case would be if the roads were CLOSED. If the roads were not closed, then the rules of the road remain exactly the same as always and the responsibilities of both driver and cyclist are just as if there was no race on at all.

Can you elaborate on this a little? Should he be able to just put his head down and hammer away and expect that any obstacles would move out of his way 'or else'?

You know what happens when people ride that way? They get hit.

  


Yes, cycling is sooooo complicated. 5 seconds is wayyyyyyy to little time to react. Or at least so says the 7-time vehicular collision survivor.

If you can't pound on the facts, pound on the table, or your opponent.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

I saw that coming a mile away......... if my only way to anticipate unfolding traffic events involved cars properly signaling I would have been in many a traffic accident or worse.