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FLO 60 and 90 wheel review
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I saw this on FLO's blog today. TriRig reviewed their wheels. Looks like some pretty good stuff.

http://bit.ly/lmE3Za


Sorry if this has already been posted.
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Running Doc] [ In reply to ]
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Running Doc wrote:
I saw this on FLO's blog today. TriRig reviewed their wheels. Looks like some pretty good stuff.

http://bit.ly/lmE3Za


Sorry if this has already been posted.

My search spider picked this up last night. I'm glad you liked the review!

Thanks for the support,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Very nice. It's sweet to see you guys make so much progress.
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if anyone's asked this yet -- are your training wheels going to be built with round spokes or CX-Rays? Seems like using round spokes would be a good way to bring the cost down for the relatively-non-aero-anyway training wheels.

Asad
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Frenchman] [ In reply to ]
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Frenchman wrote:
Very nice. It's sweet to see you guys make so much progress.

I appreciate the compliments. I'm glad you like what you see!

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [asad137] [ In reply to ]
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asad137 wrote:
Not sure if anyone's asked this yet -- are your training wheels going to be built with round spokes or CX-Rays? Seems like using round spokes would be a good way to bring the cost down for the relatively-non-aero-anyway training wheels.

Asad

Our training/climbing wheels will be built with CX-Ray spokes. We were in the A2 Wind Tunnel last week and believe it or not our custom FLO rim shape test much more aero than a standard OEM rim. We are going to stick with the CX-Ray spokes simply because they are just such a great spoke. And hey... if your trainers can also be aero, then why not ;)


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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The Non Machined brake track makes the wheels look seemless.

Suffer Well.
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Running Doc] [ In reply to ]
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I saw that too. Continue to be very impressed.



Life IS an endurance sport. Finish Well
www.fwe1.net
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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jmh wrote:
The Non Machined brake track makes the wheels look seemless.

It's still a machined brake track, it's just anodized black.
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Chris, when are you going to post up some close up pics of that disc?
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Wheels look really great. And you guys are doing a great job of viral marketing and building anticipation.

So what are the chances of having your disk in hand by late July/early August? Looks like on FB you mention preorders in June. Not really worth bothering to buy this year unless I could get it by then.

I'm sure you guys are going to do great in the long run but you may miss a lot of sales in the short run if you miss most of this season... but then again I'm sure I don't need to tell you that!
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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jmh wrote:
The Non Machined brake track makes the wheels look seemless.

Good eyes! These prototype rims are not machined. Our production model rims will be welded and machined to ensure you have a smooth braking surface.

All the best,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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tttiltheend wrote:
Wheels look really great. And you guys are doing a great job of viral marketing and building anticipation.

So what are the chances of having your disk in hand by late July/early August? Looks like on FB you mention preorders in June. Not really worth bothering to buy this year unless I could get it by then.

I'm sure you guys are going to do great in the long run but you may miss a lot of sales in the short run if you miss most of this season... but then again I'm sure I don't need to tell you that!

I think at the price point they are talking about, they aren't going to have to worry about sales....now or in the future.
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Any rough idea on when you will start shipping or have the final pricing? I saw pre-order in June, but no delivery estimates.


Fraser Bicycle | First Endurance

Check out my blog here | Twitter:@tmalis3
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Landyachtz] [ In reply to ]
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Landyachtz wrote:
Chris, when are you going to post up some close up pics of that disc?

I'll see if we can get something up on our blog soon. I apologize for the delay. We've been non stop in wind tunnels and airports for the last few days.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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tttiltheend wrote:
Wheels look really great. And you guys are doing a great job of viral marketing and building anticipation.

Thank you

So what are the chances of having your disk in hand by late July/early August? Looks like on FB you mention preorders in June. Not really worth bothering to buy this year unless I could get it by then.

To be honest your chances for that date aren't looking good. I'm sorry about that.

I'm sure you guys are going to do great in the long run but you may miss a lot of sales in the short run if you miss most of this season... but then again I'm sure I don't need to tell you that!

We do realize this. That said, rushing to market with a product that is not ready ensures we will make no sales next year. Are the delays going to cause us to lose some sales this year? Yes. Would releasing a product that is not ready in order to keep those sales be a smart business decision? No. We want this product on the market as bad as you do. A product on the market means we can start making money. For a business that's a good thing.

I don't mean any of the above in a sarcastic way I'm just being honest. A delay at one factory can have an impact on the other 3. Trust me that we are working hard to get these wheels released as soon as possible.

I hope you understand.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Tom3] [ In reply to ]
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Tom3 wrote:
Any rough idea on when you will start shipping or have the final pricing? I saw pre-order in June, but no delivery estimates.

We are still finalizing those details. We are planning to go to China for a pre-production run in June. Details should be more clear after that.

As an estimate we are guessing first wheels will ship 60-90 days after pre-order closes. Also, current price estimates are at $349 for front 60 and 90 mm wheels, $399 for the rear wheels and $499 for disc wheels.

I hope that helps. Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Canadian wrote:
asad137 wrote:
We were in the A2 Wind Tunnel last week and believe it or not our custom FLO rim shape test much more aero than a standard OEM rim. We are going to stick with the CX-Ray spokes simply because they are just such a great spoke. And hey... if your trainers can also be aero, then why not ;)

What a tease! When will we see the data?



Erik
Strava
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! Those are great prices! As far as the delivery, it's already been mentioned above, you will miss most of this season....but if I were you I would really push to have some ready for Vegas and Kona. Good PR before everything winds down for the winter.


Fraser Bicycle | First Endurance

Check out my blog here | Twitter:@tmalis3
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [mcdoublee] [ In reply to ]
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mcdoublee wrote:
Canadian wrote:
asad137 wrote:
We were in the A2 Wind Tunnel last week and believe it or not our custom FLO rim shape test much more aero than a standard OEM rim. We are going to stick with the CX-Ray spokes simply because they are just such a great spoke. And hey... if your trainers can also be aero, then why not ;)

What a tease! When will we see the data?

Haha we are compiling it now. We are trying to put it together in a user friendly fashion. If you check out our blog or facebook page in my signature you can see lots of pictures from the test.

Thanks for the interest,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Makes sense, taking the long term approach is overall by far the better solution rather than rushing to make a given season and possibly compromising quality. Lots of time the need to get cash flow started dictates rushing the product out the door.

And, as someone else mentioned, if you hold your pricing or close to it based on what we're seeing you'll likely do very well.
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Chris,
I have a coaching client doing IM Louisville who would be perfect for these wheels.....any chance these wheel would be here in the US by Mid/late August.....

Thanks!
Paul

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Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich stärker.
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-Friedrich Nietzsche, Götzen-Dämmerung (1899)
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Tom3] [ In reply to ]
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Tom3 wrote:
Thanks! Those are great prices! As far as the delivery, it's already been mentioned above, you will miss most of this season....but if I were you I would really push to have some ready for Vegas and Kona. Good PR before everything winds down for the winter.

I agree. We are from Vegas so we hope to have a booth at the expo and have some product there. Expensing a trip to Hawaii our first year in business may a little challenging but we would love to have wheels ready for that race.

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [mcdoublee] [ In reply to ]
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mcdoublee wrote:
Canadian wrote:
asad137 wrote:
We were in the A2 Wind Tunnel last week and believe it or not our custom FLO rim shape test much more aero than a standard OEM rim. We are going to stick with the CX-Ray spokes simply because they are just such a great spoke. And hey... if your trainers can also be aero, then why not ;)


What a tease! When will we see the data?


Here's one of my favorite pictures from our trip to the wind tunnel...








Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Tri-Wog StL] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Wog StL wrote:
Chris,
I have a coaching client doing IM Louisville who would be perfect for these wheels.....any chance these wheel would be here in the US by Mid/late August.....

Thanks!
Paul

There is a chance but I can't make any promises. We will do our very best.

Thanks for thinking of us,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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tttiltheend wrote:
Makes sense, taking the long term approach is overall by far the better solution rather than rushing to make a given season and possibly compromising quality. Lots of time the need to get cash flow started dictates rushing the product out the door.

And, as someone else mentioned, if you hold your pricing or close to it based on what we're seeing you'll likely do very well.

Thanks for understanding. I really think focusing on product quality is the way to go.

Have a great weekend,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Canadian wrote:
Tom3 wrote:
Thanks! Those are great prices! As far as the delivery, it's already been mentioned above, you will miss most of this season....but if I were you I would really push to have some ready for Vegas and Kona. Good PR before everything winds down for the winter.


I agree. We are from Vegas so we hope to have a booth at the expo and have some product there. Expensing a trip to Hawaii our first year in business may a little challenging but we would love to have wheels ready for that race.

Take care,
Possible to do a pre-order and pickup at Vegas? That would be absolutely perfect for me since I'll be there for the race a few days earlier and will save me shipping costs to Asia.
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Great review, you guys must be stoked!

____________________________________________________
"I like you. I'll gladly sit down and have dinner with you after the race. But when the gun goes off, I pretty much hate you, and I want to stomp your guts out. That's racing." -Rappstar

http://train4autism.org/
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [bingobong] [ In reply to ]
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bingobong wrote:
Canadian wrote:
Tom3 wrote:
Thanks! Those are great prices! As far as the delivery, it's already been mentioned above, you will miss most of this season....but if I were you I would really push to have some ready for Vegas and Kona. Good PR before everything winds down for the winter.


I agree. We are from Vegas so we hope to have a booth at the expo and have some product there. Expensing a trip to Hawaii our first year in business may a little challenging but we would love to have wheels ready for that race.

Take care,
Possible to do a pre-order and pickup at Vegas? That would be absolutely perfect for me since I'll be there for the race a few days earlier and will save me shipping costs to Asia.

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I'm in the middle of moving today so I haven't been in front of my computer much. To answer your question, that could definitely work. Let us get our pre-order squared away and we can work out the details after that. Just send me a PM or an email during the pre-order.

Thanks for the support and congrats on making it to the 70.3 World Championships.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [coltank17] [ In reply to ]
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coltank17 wrote:
Great review, you guys must be stoked!

Thank you! Yes we are very happy with the review. It really confirms that all of the hard work we have been doing has been focused in the right direction.

We appreciate the support,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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These look like pretty sweet wheels at a pretty sweet price. I wonder if they're any closer to market?
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Spiridon Louis] [ In reply to ]
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Spiridon Louis wrote:
These look like pretty sweet wheels at a pretty sweet price. I wonder if they're any closer to market?

We should be signing our contract with our new factory any day now. We have already started developing design drawings with the new factory for building our molds. No dates set in stone yet but we are definitely getting much closer. We are very excited out the new factory and improved products.

Thanks for the compliments,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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As an estimate we are guessing first wheels will ship 60-90 days after pre-order closes. Also, current price estimates are at $349 for front 60 and 90 mm wheels, $399 for the rear wheels and $499 for disc wheels.

Ok, now I get it. I have not been following your evolution too closely, so I have not really paid attention to your pricing goals. I went off on a run the other day after reading something that led me to believe that your wheels would be "competitively priced," which I interpreted as still a lot of money but not two or three grand. I was wondering how they/you think you are going to get people to take a chance on a new, unproven (by the market) wheel that still costs a lot of money. And now I know. They won't be a ton of money. For $350, I might consider replacing my old FP60 front with something deeper. Carry on. :)

Chad
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Sweet I should have some insurance bucks left after I get my frame :0)
Can't wait till they come out!!!!

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http://www.google.com/...P7RiWyEVwpunlsc2JtQQ
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Wow. $750 for a 90mm wheel set and $500 for a disc? If this holds up you can count me in, although it'll be sometime mid-next year (I'm forcing myself to achieve a sub-58:00 40k before I spring for awesome wheels like these).
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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cdw wrote:
As an estimate we are guessing first wheels will ship 60-90 days after pre-order closes. Also, current price estimates are at $349 for front 60 and 90 mm wheels, $399 for the rear wheels and $499 for disc wheels.

Ok, now I get it. I have not been following your evolution too closely, so I have not really paid attention to your pricing goals. I went off on a run the other day after reading something that led me to believe that your wheels would be "competitively priced," which I interpreted as still a lot of money but not two or three grand. I was wondering how they/you think you are going to get people to take a chance on a new, unproven (by the market) wheel that still costs a lot of money. And now I know. They won't be a ton of money. For $350, I might consider replacing my old FP60 front with something deeper. Carry on. :)

Chad

Right now we are still under $800 for the set. Even with our new factory. That, as you say, should make us pretty cost competitive.

All the best,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [gabbiev] [ In reply to ]
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gabbiev wrote:
Canadian wrote:
Spiridon Louis wrote:
These look like pretty sweet wheels at a pretty sweet price. I wonder if they're any closer to market?


We should be signing our contract with our new factory any day now. We have already started developing design drawings with the new factory for building our molds. No dates set in stone yet but we are definitely getting much closer. We are very excited out the new factory and improved products.

Thanks for the compliments,


Looks interesting--how does one pre-order?

When we are ready to do a full scale factory run we are going to allow our customers to pre-order. Pre-ordering customers will be guaranteed a set of wheels when our first "stock" shows up. After pre-order, customers will wait (we are guessing and will confirm with our new factory) 60-90 days before their products are shipped. If you would like information about our pre-order I suggest you sign up for our newsletter on our website as we will be releasing the news there first. You could also "like" us on facebook, follow us on our blog or twitter.

Thank you for the interest. Let me know if you have any additional questions,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Not to be negative as I wish you the best of luck but it seems like this process is taking forever. In hindsight do you wish that you had waited until you were further along in the process before you made it all public?
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [bmanners] [ In reply to ]
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bmanners wrote:
Sweet I should have some insurance bucks left after I get my frame :0)
Can't wait till they come out!!!!

Thanks for the continued support. What new frame are you getting?


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [crazyarm07] [ In reply to ]
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crazyarm07 wrote:
Wow. $750 for a 90mm wheel set and $500 for a disc? If this holds up you can count me in, although it'll be sometime mid-next year (I'm forcing myself to achieve a sub-58:00 40k before I spring for awesome wheels like these).

Wheelsets should still be under $800 and our FLO DISCS are still on target for $500. We'll do our best to keep everything as close to those numbers as possible.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Chris G] [ In reply to ]
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Chris G wrote:
Not to be negative as I wish you the best of luck but it seems like this process is taking forever. In hindsight do you wish that you had waited until you were further along in the process before you made it all public?

Actually no. When we made this public we were on track to go into full scale production. It was impossible for us to know that our factory was going to... for lack of better terms... screw us. We lost a ton of money and our molds were useless to other factories. We were forced to start over.

In the end we are going to have a much better product. Our followers have thanked us time and time again for being open and honest. The majority of them have enjoyed following our journey.

You've said our process is taking forever. Do you know what the process is? We are not simply placing our sticker on an open molded product. We have designed our fairing shapes from scratch. This took months of CFD testing followed by wind tunnel testing. We then had to select all of our components, find a list of factories, go through the design phase with each factory, create customer fairing molds, build prototypes, test the prototypes, re-design, re-prototype, re-design, re-prototype... oops there goes our factory... start over finding a new factory, go through the whole process again.

I know from the outside it's easy to say those guys are taking forever, but if you saw the process from my shoes I'm sure you'd think differently.

Could we have released the news at a better time? Maybe, but I think it would be hard to determine that time. All I know is that I've made a ton of friends in the process of starting this company/releasing the news and we now have a few thousand people signed up for the pre-order.

Finally, we wanted the community to be a part of our design process. We wanted the community to give us their suggestions, so they felt they had a hand in producing a product they they liked. Because of the community there have been many changes to our final product...

To name a few:

A new logo
Black rims
Improved skewers
etc.

I think in the end this will all work out. Our followers and future customers who purchase our products will receive better products as a result of our "process" even if it has taken "forever".


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Since your main goal seems to be price (and not necessarily aerodynamics). I don't see why you didn't just copy the old 404/ new sram fairing shape. Somebody has already ran all the CFD and aero testing and determined it is a pretty good shape and relatively fast. Not only that but the patent has ran out so you can just copy it with no worries. That seems like it would have been a lot faster and easier and then you could of used that money to make another generation. That is probably what I would of done.

Ride Scoozy Electric Bicycles
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [msuguy512] [ In reply to ]
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msuguy512 wrote:
Since your main goal seems to be price (and not necessarily aerodynamics). I don't see why you didn't just copy the old 404/ new sram fairing shape. Somebody has already ran all the CFD and aero testing and determined it is a pretty good shape and relatively fast. Not only that but the patent has ran out so you can just copy it with no worries. That seems like it would have been a lot faster and easier and then you could of used that money to make another generation. That is probably what I would of done.

Our main goal was to produce high quality, leading edge aerodynamic wheels at a great price. We are not in the business of "copying" other peoples designs. That didn't feel right to us. We wanted to develop our own shapes and produce a product that we could be proud of. I think our aero data and our pricepoints are a good indication that we will accomplish our goals.

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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This, Chris, is what will make your business successful. Because, the public will be able to have a wheelset that will approximate the speed of new designs at a fraction of the cost. When the wheels are here, then why would others go with the old copy of the 404 for same or greater price. You have stated your goals and we all look forward to seeing the final product - and especially racing them!!!

Brent

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Canadian wrote:
Chris G wrote:
Not to be negative as I wish you the best of luck but it seems like this process is taking forever. In hindsight do you wish that you had waited until you were further along in the process before you made it all public?


Actually no. When we made this public we were on track to go into full scale production. It was impossible for us to know that our factory was going to... for lack of better terms... screw us. We lost a ton of money and our molds were useless to other factories. We were forced to start over.

In the end we are going to have a much better product. Our followers have thanked us time and time again for being open and honest. The majority of them have enjoyed following our journey.

You've said our process is taking forever. Do you know what the process is? We are not simply placing our sticker on an open molded product. We have designed our fairing shapes from scratch. This took months of CFD testing followed by wind tunnel testing. We then had to select all of our components, find a list of factories, go through the design phase with each factory, create customer fairing molds, build prototypes, test the prototypes, re-design, re-prototype, re-design, re-prototype... oops there goes our factory... start over finding a new factory, go through the whole process again.

I know from the outside it's easy to say those guys are taking forever, but if you saw the process from my shoes I'm sure you'd think differently.

Could we have released the news at a better time? Maybe, but I think it would be hard to determine that time. All I know is that I've made a ton of friends in the process of starting this company/releasing the news and we now have a few thousand people signed up for the pre-order.

Finally, we wanted the community to be a part of our design process. We wanted the community to give us their suggestions, so they felt they had a hand in producing a product they they liked. Because of the community there have been many changes to our final product...

To name a few:

A new logo
Black rims
Improved skewers
etc.

I think in the end this will all work out. Our followers and future customers who purchase our products will receive better products as a result of our "process" even if it has taken "forever".

Thanks for the response. I have no idea what the process is. It seems like everything I ever get involved always it much harder than anticipated once I actually get down to doing it. I guess you are experiencing that as well. Again, I wish you guys the best in your venture and am excited to see the products come to market in the near future. The black brake track looks awesome. I would be shocked if we did not see that on some other wheels very soon.
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry to hear about the delays and sourcing issues. Not fun, but you're adapting well and landing on your feet.

But since you are starting new, any chance of a narrower front hub design to get a little more of an aero advantage? Are hubs like that even available from your suppliers?

Good luck, it is great to watch your progress.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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I'm excited about these wheels. I got rid of my disc because of the issues I had with it, and have been on a FB60 set with a disc cover. That's fine for ease of use, etc, but not a perfect blend of race wheels. I'm in for a set of these for sure. LOVE the concept of designing something high quality from scratch and pricing it for the average athlete. Thanks tons! I signed up for the newsletter and can't wait for pre-ordering.
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Canadian wrote:
Actually no. When we made this public we were on track to go into full scale production. It was impossible for us to know that our factory was going to... for lack of better terms... screw us. We lost a ton of money and our molds were useless to other factories. We were forced to start over.


I hate to be a dick, but getting screwed over was not an unforeseeable risk. It's a fact of life when you do business with low cost suppliers in China. In fact when you asked opinions on this forum a year and a half ago it was mentioned:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2662123;page=3;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;#2662945


Good on you for having the capital, determination and resourcefulness to survive in spite of getting hosed. But getting hosed is a fact of life for everyone. Even the 800 lb gorillas like Apple.
Last edited by: jpb: Sep 6, 11 9:20
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Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [dfru] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dfru wrote:
This, Chris, is what will make your business successful. Because, the public will be able to have a wheelset that will approximate the speed of new designs at a fraction of the cost. When the wheels are here, then why would others go with the old copy of the 404 for same or greater price. You have stated your goals and we all look forward to seeing the final product - and especially racing them!!!

Brent

Brent,

Thanks for the continued support. Your thoughts are right on track with ours.

All the best,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Sorry to hear about the delays and sourcing issues. Not fun, but you're adapting well and landing on your feet.

But since you are starting new, any chance of a narrower front hub design to get a little more of an aero advantage? Are hubs like that even available from your suppliers?

Good luck, it is great to watch your progress.

We looked into that actually. Since all of our wind tunnel testing had already been done with our current hub design we decided to stick with what we had. We will definitely consider that option on future wheel designs.

Thanks for the support,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Chris G] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Chris G wrote:
Canadian wrote:
Chris G wrote:
Not to be negative as I wish you the best of luck but it seems like this process is taking forever. In hindsight do you wish that you had waited until you were further along in the process before you made it all public?


Actually no. When we made this public we were on track to go into full scale production. It was impossible for us to know that our factory was going to... for lack of better terms... screw us. We lost a ton of money and our molds were useless to other factories. We were forced to start over.

In the end we are going to have a much better product. Our followers have thanked us time and time again for being open and honest. The majority of them have enjoyed following our journey.

You've said our process is taking forever. Do you know what the process is? We are not simply placing our sticker on an open molded product. We have designed our fairing shapes from scratch. This took months of CFD testing followed by wind tunnel testing. We then had to select all of our components, find a list of factories, go through the design phase with each factory, create customer fairing molds, build prototypes, test the prototypes, re-design, re-prototype, re-design, re-prototype... oops there goes our factory... start over finding a new factory, go through the whole process again.

I know from the outside it's easy to say those guys are taking forever, but if you saw the process from my shoes I'm sure you'd think differently.

Could we have released the news at a better time? Maybe, but I think it would be hard to determine that time. All I know is that I've made a ton of friends in the process of starting this company/releasing the news and we now have a few thousand people signed up for the pre-order.

Finally, we wanted the community to be a part of our design process. We wanted the community to give us their suggestions, so they felt they had a hand in producing a product they they liked. Because of the community there have been many changes to our final product...

To name a few:

A new logo
Black rims
Improved skewers
etc.

I think in the end this will all work out. Our followers and future customers who purchase our products will receive better products as a result of our "process" even if it has taken "forever".


Thanks for the response. I have no idea what the process is. It seems like everything I ever get involved always it much harder than anticipated once I actually get down to doing it. I guess you are experiencing that as well. Again, I wish you guys the best in your venture and am excited to see the products come to market in the near future. The black brake track looks awesome. I would be shocked if we did not see that on some other wheels very soon.

People often say if you knew how hard something was going to be before you started, you often wouldn't start. I can tell you first hand that we didn't see all of the struggles we would have. In saying that, I'm still very happy we took the plunge.

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [edrusk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
edrusk wrote:
I'm excited about these wheels. I got rid of my disc because of the issues I had with it, and have been on a FB60 set with a disc cover. That's fine for ease of use, etc, but not a perfect blend of race wheels. I'm in for a set of these for sure. LOVE the concept of designing something high quality from scratch and pricing it for the average athlete. Thanks tons! I signed up for the newsletter and can't wait for pre-ordering.

We are happy that you like what you see. Thank you for the support. We appreciate it.

All the best,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Chris, with the new factory and subsequent improvements to your wheels do you expect that your FLO 90 will show better aerodynamics than it did in your wind tunnel tests? In other words, will it begin to more clearly outperform the FLO 60?

Also, I know you answered this before, but do you guys have any plans to offer powertap versions of your wheels, or at the very least offer a wheel with the fairing drilled properly for a powertap that a buyer could have assembled somewhere else?
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [jpb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jpb wrote:
Canadian wrote:
Actually no. When we made this public we were on track to go into full scale production. It was impossible for us to know that our factory was going to... for lack of better terms... screw us. We lost a ton of money and our molds were useless to other factories. We were forced to start over.


I hate to be a dick, but getting screwed over was not an unforeseeable risk. It's a fact of life when you do business with low cost suppliers in China. In fact when you asked opinions on this forum a year and a half ago it was mentioned:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2662123;page=3;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;#2662945


Good on you for having the capital, determination and resourcefulness to survive in spite of getting hosed. But getting hosed is a fact of life for everyone. Even the 800 lb gorillas like Apple.


Getting hosed is a "risk". We always new and continue to know that this is a "risk". What I said above is that it was impossible for us to "know".

"Risk" is merely a "possibility". There is no certainty in risk, meaning it could or could not happen.

"Knowing" is a fact. It's either yes or no, right or wrong, black or white.

When we released the news about our company, getting hosed was certainly still a "risk", but based on our conversations with our factory, import/export team, and progress to date, it seemed like a very small risk. As a company who needed to start creating brand awareness, we decided the risk was small enough to start spreading the word. In the end the risk still got us.

Now if I would have "known" that this was going to happen, we would have postponed our process of creating brand awareness.

I hope that makes sense,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Last edited by: Canadian: Sep 6, 11 9:55
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just wished u made them in 650's. Good luck lads, you guys are going to rock!!!
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Landyachtz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Landyachtz wrote:
Chris, with the new factory and subsequent improvements to your wheels do you expect that your FLO 90 will show better aerodynamics than it did in your wind tunnel tests? In other words, will it begin to more clearly outperform the FLO 60?

Also, I know you answered this before, but do you guys have any plans to offer powertap versions of your wheels, or at the very least offer a wheel with the fairing drilled properly for a powertap that a buyer could have assembled somewhere else?

Our new factory will be constructing the wheels aerodynamically equivalent to our first generation wheels. The FLO 60 and the FLO 90 are have nearly identical aero benefits with a 3 gram (on average) difference. The FLO 90 will make a great front and rear wheel. I will say that our FLO DISC shape was based off of our FLO 90. This means that if you put a wheel cover on it, you will more than likely experience similar aero benefits. Meaning you may be able to experience negative drag with a wheel cover ;).

Power is definitely on our minds at FLO. We are working towards power but it will not be available right out of the gate.

Hopefully that helps,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Baggieboz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Baggieboz wrote:
Just wished u made them in 650's. Good luck lads, you guys are going to rock!!!

Thanks for the kind words. 650c may be an option in the future but we needed to stay financially sound as a new company. Opening up a whole new set of molds for 650c wheels doesn't currently fit the budget.

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Canadian wrote:
Our new factory will be constructing the wheels aerodynamically equivalent to our first generation wheels. The FLO 60 and the FLO 90 are have nearly identical aero benefits with a 3 gram (on average) difference. The FLO 90 will make a great front and rear wheel. I will say that our FLO DISC shape was based off of our FLO 90. This means that if you put a wheel cover on it, you will more than likely experience similar aero benefits. Meaning you may be able to experience negative drag with a wheel cover ,


wow, hadn't thought pf that. i can keep my FP60 cover and put it on my new FLO 60 wheels. Great idea

[/img]
Last edited by: edrusk: Sep 6, 11 13:24
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [edrusk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
edrusk wrote:
Canadian wrote:
Our new factory will be constructing the wheels aerodynamically equivalent to our first generation wheels. The FLO 60 and the FLO 90 are have nearly identical aero benefits with a 3 gram (on average) difference. The FLO 90 will make a great front and rear wheel. I will say that our FLO DISC shape was based off of our FLO 90. This means that if you put a wheel cover on it, you will more than likely experience similar aero benefits. Meaning you may be able to experience negative drag with a wheel cover ,


wow, hadn't thought pf that. i can keep my FP60 cover and put it on my new FLO 60 wheels. Great idea

[/img]

Sounds like you have a plan! Nice bike. How do you like the saddle? I have a new one just like it that I haven't had time to swap out with my fitter yet. I'm currently using and Adamo Race but it's a little wide.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Canadian wrote:
I'm currently using and Adamo Race but it's a little wide.

I told you...move it back further. Seriously.

It's not too wide, you're sitting on it too far back...

:-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A. wrote:
Canadian wrote:
I'm currently using and Adamo Race but it's a little wide.


I told you...move it back further. Seriously.

It's not too wide, you're sitting on it too far back...

:-)

I followed that advice until I was barely sitting on the saddle (would fall off of the front when I hit a bump in the road) and it was still too wide. Ordered up a VFlow Max and all the chafing went away.

.

I know enough to know I don't know enough...
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Great wheels !! great Prices !!!

Cant wait to see it !!!

Congrats Guys !!!!
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
VFlow Max is awesome Chris. Train everything in trishorts, 7.5 hr ride up and down Mt Baker 3x no problem. Life changing. Although Tom A's advice sounds like it might work too haha.

VFlow Max = Really good race wheels :)

Brent

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This solves 99% of the too wide complaints I see about an Adamo.

Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A. wrote:
Canadian wrote:
I'm currently using and Adamo Race but it's a little wide.

I told you...move it back further. Seriously.

It's not too wide, you're sitting on it too far back...

:-)

Did we have this discussion already? Sorry my memory must be fading as I approach 30.

I'm literally hanging off the front of the saddle as it is. My sit bones are on the ends of each partition.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [uberslug] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
uberslug wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Canadian wrote:
I'm currently using and Adamo Race but it's a little wide.


I told you...move it back further. Seriously.

It's not too wide, you're sitting on it too far back...

:-)


I followed that advice until I was barely sitting on the saddle (would fall off of the front when I hit a bump in the road) and it was still too wide. Ordered up a VFlow Max and all the chafing went away.

I find that somewhat surprising since the width across where you should actually sit on both of those saddles is basically identical...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [ponzi54] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ponzi54 wrote:
Great wheels !! great Prices !!!

Cant wait to see it !!!

Congrats Guys !!!!

Thank you for the kind words! We appreciate them.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Canadian wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Canadian wrote:
I'm currently using and Adamo Race but it's a little wide.


I told you...move it back further. Seriously.

It's not too wide, you're sitting on it too far back...

:-)


Did we have this discussion already? Sorry my memory must be fading as I approach 30.

I'm literally hanging off the front of the saddle as it is. My sit bones are on the ends of each partition.

Yes. :-)

If you're literally hanging off the front, then what part is too wide?

I suspect you aren't as far onto the front of that saddle as you think you are...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [dfru] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dfru wrote:
VFlow Max is awesome Chris. Train everything in trishorts, 7.5 hr ride up and down Mt Baker 3x no problem. Life changing. Although Tom A's advice sounds like it might work too haha.

VFlow Max = Really good race wheels :)

Brent

Thanks Brent. Looks like I have a new project to add to the list.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A. wrote:
Canadian wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Canadian wrote:
I'm currently using and Adamo Race but it's a little wide.


I told you...move it back further. Seriously.

It's not too wide, you're sitting on it too far back...

:-)


Did we have this discussion already? Sorry my memory must be fading as I approach 30.

I'm literally hanging off the front of the saddle as it is. My sit bones are on the ends of each partition.

Yes. :-)

If you're literally hanging off the front, then what part is too wide?

I suspect you aren't as far onto the front of that saddle as you think you are...

Well I'm officially getting old then ;).

I'll experiment with that as well. Thanks for your thoughts for the second time. Haha.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Canadian wrote:
Well I'm officially getting old then ;).

That's OK...it happens to the best of us...getting old, that is ;-)


Canadian wrote:
I'll experiment with that as well. Thanks for your thoughts for the second time. Haha.

Just move it back 1cm and see how it goes...if still no go, try another cm. Keep going until you run out of adjustment range on the rails...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A. wrote:
uberslug wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Canadian wrote:
I'm currently using and Adamo Race but it's a little wide.


I told you...move it back further. Seriously.

It's not too wide, you're sitting on it too far back...

:-)


I followed that advice until I was barely sitting on the saddle (would fall off of the front when I hit a bump in the road) and it was still too wide. Ordered up a VFlow Max and all the chafing went away.


I find that somewhat surprising since the width across where you should actually sit on both of those saddles is basically identical...

I think it has more to do with the firmness of the Adamo at the outside edges which make the chamois chafe against the insides of my thighs. The VFlow Max is a lot cushier so I think I 'sink' into it more and don't spend as much time sliding and bouncing around.

.

I know enough to know I don't know enough...
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [uberslug] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
uberslug wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
uberslug wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Canadian wrote:
I'm currently using and Adamo Race but it's a little wide.


I told you...move it back further. Seriously.

It's not too wide, you're sitting on it too far back...

:-)


I followed that advice until I was barely sitting on the saddle (would fall off of the front when I hit a bump in the road) and it was still too wide. Ordered up a VFlow Max and all the chafing went away.


I find that somewhat surprising since the width across where you should actually sit on both of those saddles is basically identical...


I think it has more to do with the firmness of the Adamo at the outside edges which make the chamois chafe against the insides of my thighs. The VFlow Max is a lot cushier so I think I 'sink' into it more and don't spend as much time sliding and bouncing around.

.

Aaah...I see...perhaps the better corollary to the Vmax Plus is the Adamo Road?

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A. wrote:
uberslug wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
uberslug wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Canadian wrote:
I'm currently using and Adamo Race but it's a little wide.


I told you...move it back further. Seriously.

It's not too wide, you're sitting on it too far back...

:-)


I followed that advice until I was barely sitting on the saddle (would fall off of the front when I hit a bump in the road) and it was still too wide. Ordered up a VFlow Max and all the chafing went away.


I find that somewhat surprising since the width across where you should actually sit on both of those saddles is basically identical...


I think it has more to do with the firmness of the Adamo at the outside edges which make the chamois chafe against the insides of my thighs. The VFlow Max is a lot cushier so I think I 'sink' into it more and don't spend as much time sliding and bouncing around.

.


Aaah...I see...perhaps the better corollary to the Vmax Plus is the Adamo Road?

I use the Plus on my road bike. It is actually a great deal more flexible than the VFlow Max so it is a bit disconcerting at first when the pavement undulation frequency matches the cadence. Once I got used to the flexibility I have found it very easy to 'wedge' myself in and spin up climbs (something I could never do before due to a saddle that was a bit too high and too far back). Overall I am very impressed with the Cobb saddles I have tried to date.

Now back to the original point of the thread, Flo Wheels... Are the front wheels still going to have 20 spokes?

.

I know enough to know I don't know enough...
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [uberslug] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
uberslug wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
uberslug wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
uberslug wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Canadian wrote:
I'm currently using and Adamo Race but it's a little wide.


I told you...move it back further. Seriously.

It's not too wide, you're sitting on it too far back...

:-)


I followed that advice until I was barely sitting on the saddle (would fall off of the front when I hit a bump in the road) and it was still too wide. Ordered up a VFlow Max and all the chafing went away.


I find that somewhat surprising since the width across where you should actually sit on both of those saddles is basically identical...


I think it has more to do with the firmness of the Adamo at the outside edges which make the chamois chafe against the insides of my thighs. The VFlow Max is a lot cushier so I think I 'sink' into it more and don't spend as much time sliding and bouncing around.

.


Aaah...I see...perhaps the better corollary to the Vmax Plus is the Adamo Road?


I use the Plus on my road bike. It is actually a great deal more flexible than the VFlow Max so it is a bit disconcerting at first when the pavement undulation frequency matches the cadence. Once I got used to the flexibility I have found it very easy to 'wedge' myself in and spin up climbs (something I could never do before due to a saddle that was a bit too high and too far back). Overall I am very impressed with the Cobb saddles I have tried to date.

Now back to the original point of the thread, Flo Wheels... Are the front wheels still going to have 20 spokes?

.

Doh! I meant to write "VFlow Max"...sorry...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Baggieboz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Baggieboz wrote:
Just wished u made them in 650's. Good luck lads, you guys are going to rock!!!

I know it's too expensive now but the more clamor you hear maybe the more likely you are to make 650c's in the future.




Running is a gift.
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Canadian wrote:


Our main goal was to produce high quality, leading edge aerodynamic wheels at a great price. We are not in the business of "copying" other peoples designs. That didn't feel right to us. We wanted to develop our own shapes and produce a product that we could be proud of. I think our aero data and our pricepoints are a good indication that we will accomplish our goals.

Take care,

Bravo Chris!!!
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [uberslug] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
uberslug wrote:

Now back to the original point of the thread, Flo Wheels... Are the front wheels still going to have 20 spokes?

.

Yes. The front wheels will still have 20 spokes (radially laced).

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Jiowa] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jiowa wrote:
Baggieboz wrote:
Just wished u made them in 650's. Good luck lads, you guys are going to rock!!!


I know it's too expensive now but the more clamor you hear maybe the more likely you are to make 650c's in the future.

Haha!


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [SilverTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SilverTriGuy wrote:
Canadian wrote:


Our main goal was to produce high quality, leading edge aerodynamic wheels at a great price. We are not in the business of "copying" other peoples designs. That didn't feel right to us. We wanted to develop our own shapes and produce a product that we could be proud of. I think our aero data and our pricepoints are a good indication that we will accomplish our goals.

Take care,


Bravo Chris!!!


Thank you. I'm glad you agree.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Last edited by: Canadian: Sep 7, 11 22:25
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey, any update on the release date of the wheels?
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [edrusk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
edrusk wrote:
Hey, any update on the release date of the wheels?

We are currently finalizing design drawings with the new factory. We are developing a new and improved way (nothing crazy or odd) of bonding aluminum to carbon with the factory. We are hoping to have all details finalized in the next week or so. After that, we cut all of our molds, get a quick sample and then order our stock. If all goes as planned we should be shooting for early next season to have wheels in stock.

I've got a blog article written to explain what happened with our first factory AND that highlights the improvements we will gain by being patient and starting over with the new factory. I'm holding off on posting the article until I actually ink the deal with our new factory. Partially for superstition and partially because that seems like the right thing to do.

Keep an eye on our blog or sign up for our newsletter if you are interested in reading the story.

Thanks for your continued patience. The quality of our new wheels will far surpass that of our first edition prototype wheels. The wait will pay off for those who have been patient.

We are so excited about the new wheels.

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So, Tom, are you using the Max on your road bike, or am I misreading? I've been on an old Blackwell Flow, but would like more relief when in the drops, without having to slide all the way back. The Plus would be good, but if the Max isn't too wide in the nose, that might be better.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
docfuel wrote:
So, Tom, are you using the Max on your road bike, or am I misreading? I've been on an old Blackwell Flow, but would like more relief when in the drops, without having to slide all the way back. The Plus would be good, but if the Max isn't too wide in the nose, that might be better.

No. I use an Adamo Road on both road bike and TT bike.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have one and find it comfortable on my tri bike for anything HIM or less. When on the horns, I don't care much for it. I spend as little time in that position as possible.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Off topic...what search spider do you use to pick up mentions of your product?

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nate Pearson wrote:
Off topic...what search spider do you use to pick up mentions of your product?

There are a list of things that we do. Here they are...

1. We have a Google notifier/spider. I'm sorry I forget the name. My brother runs it.
2. I use the search function on many forums regularly.
3. We get a steady stream of emails and sign ups. However, when we get more than usual... I know to start looking around.
4. Finally, we've got some pretty loyal followers who will often send us a "hey they are talking about you here" email.

Hopefully that helps,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nate Pearson wrote:
Off topic...what search spider do you use to pick up mentions of your product?

Just got off the phone with my brother. It's called Google Alerts.

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Does anyone know what the spoke count is going to be for the rear 90?
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [JPDMD25] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JPDMD25 wrote:
Does anyone know what the spoke count is going to be for the rear 90?

Standard rear FLO 60, 90, DISC, and CLIMBER wheels will have 24 spokes. Clydesdale options in all of the above wheels will have 28.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hey Chris, I was wondering if you guys have mentioned anything about tire size with the 60/90s... Do you have an optimal tire size or combo in mind, ala Firecrest with 21s up front and 23s on the rear...

Thanks and look forward to your products in 2012!
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [waupaca11] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
waupaca11 wrote:
hey Chris, I was wondering if you guys have mentioned anything about tire size with the 60/90s... Do you have an optimal tire size or combo in mind, ala Firecrest with 21s up front and 23s on the rear...

Thanks and look forward to your products in 2012!

We tested our wheels in the A2 wind tunnel with 23mm tires. The 23mm tires fit really well with the rim profile and help create a smooth transition from tire, to rim, to fairing. I personally will be riding the 23mm Michelin Pro 3 Race tires with my FLO wheels. They did the best aerodynamically in the wind tunnel.

I hope that helps,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Chris,

Can you help me out with the rolling resistance claim. Logically to me then the effective location of the force 'F' is going to be the midpoint of the contact patch, ie under the hub and therefore perpendicular to the movement. So the length of the patch is irrelevant.

In fact as it's now akin to being a short wheelbase compared to a long wheelbase then there's going to be more vertical lift and drop over road imperfections so I'd have thought that the CRR would increase fractionally. Clearly not enough to offset the other wheel benefits, but I just didn't understand this section of the benefits and it almost took away from the other benefits.

What am I missing?

Thanks

Duncan
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Chris,

Any new production updates? Are you still shooting for Spring 2012? How much do you think the ceramic upgrade will be per wheel?

Sorry, I don't mean to be a pest, but I'm very interested in your wheels...

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Duncan74 wrote:
Chris,
Can you help me out with the rolling resistance claim. Logically to me then the effective location of the force 'F' is going to be the midpoint of the contact patch, ie under the hub and therefore perpendicular to the movement. So the length of the patch is irrelevant.

In fact as it's now akin to being a short wheelbase compared to a long wheelbase then there's going to be more vertical lift and drop over road imperfections so I'd have thought that the CRR would increase fractionally. Clearly not enough to offset the other wheel benefits, but I just didn't understand this section of the benefits and it almost took away from the other benefits.

What am I missing?

Thanks

Duncan

I'm going to reply to you, I just need more than a few minutes where I can sit down to do so. I have a busy morning but should be able to get you a better answer by the end of the day.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Travis R wrote:
Hi Chris,

Any new production updates? Are you still shooting for Spring 2012? How much do you think the ceramic upgrade will be per wheel?

Sorry, I don't mean to be a pest, but I'm very interested in your wheels...

No worries. You're not being a pest at all.

Production is going well:
  • Custom DISC Hubs should be ready any day now
  • Currently finalizing spoke lengths for Custom Sapim CX-Ray Order
  • Molds are still underway

We have no specific dates as of yet but are pushing for a 2012 season release. Obviously as early as possible. Ceramic upgrades should be in the $75-$100 range per wheel.

Feel free to ask any additional questions.

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have been following your progress over the last months with great interest and can't wait for the wheels to hit the market.

I know you have been asked before if a powertap option is in the works and you have said it is a future project - have you considered selling the rim with an undrilled fairing to address people that want to add a powertap hub (maybe send it to Wheelbuilder to have them drill and lace it?) I am jus being impatient and want to have a powertap Flo wheel for 2012 race season!

Thanks and continued good luck-
Bryan
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ving_a_Bike_163.html

The bottom line is that the force in front of the mid-point is greater than the force behind the mid-point thus creating a torque about the hub that resists rotation.

Edited to say that Tom's article is even better.
Last edited by: torrey: Oct 28, 11 7:46
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Duncan74 wrote:
Chris,

Can you help me out with the rolling resistance claim. Logically to me then the effective location of the force 'F' is going to be the midpoint of the contact patch, ie under the hub and therefore perpendicular to the movement. So the length of the patch is irrelevant.

In fact as it's now akin to being a short wheelbase compared to a long wheelbase then there's going to be more vertical lift and drop over road imperfections so I'd have thought that the CRR would increase fractionally. Clearly not enough to offset the other wheel benefits, but I just didn't understand this section of the benefits and it almost took away from the other benefits.

What am I missing?

Asked and answered...quite a while a go ;-)

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ling_events_226.html

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [brewerbry] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
brewerbry wrote:
I have been following your progress over the last months with great interest and can't wait for the wheels to hit the market.

I know you have been asked before if a powertap option is in the works and you have said it is a future project - have you considered selling the rim with an undrilled fairing to address people that want to add a powertap hub (maybe send it to Wheelbuilder to have them drill and lace it?) I am jus being impatient and want to have a powertap Flo wheel for 2012 race season!

Thanks and continued good luck-
Bryan


In the beginning we are not going to be selling rims. There are few reasons why...

1. We want to make sure we can keep up with production demands for our key products before offering others.
2. As a start up we want to take one step at a time. Getting our feet wet with our own products in the beginning is better than trying to do too much at once. Walk before you run kinda thing. It also lets us get a better handle on products quality control and let's us know what is in the market place.

I hope you understand,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A. wrote:
Duncan74 wrote:
Chris,

Can you help me out with the rolling resistance claim. Logically to me then the effective location of the force 'F' is going to be the midpoint of the contact patch, ie under the hub and therefore perpendicular to the movement. So the length of the patch is irrelevant.

In fact as it's now akin to being a short wheelbase compared to a long wheelbase then there's going to be more vertical lift and drop over road imperfections so I'd have thought that the CRR would increase fractionally. Clearly not enough to offset the other wheel benefits, but I just didn't understand this section of the benefits and it almost took away from the other benefits.

What am I missing?

Asked and answered...quite a while a go ;-)

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ling_events_226.html

Thank you good Sir!


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Duncan74 wrote:
Chris,

Can you help me out with the rolling resistance claim. Logically to me then the effective location of the force 'F' is going to be the midpoint of the contact patch, ie under the hub and therefore perpendicular to the movement. So the length of the patch is irrelevant.

In fact as it's now akin to being a short wheelbase compared to a long wheelbase then there's going to be more vertical lift and drop over road imperfections so I'd have thought that the CRR would increase fractionally. Clearly not enough to offset the other wheel benefits, but I just didn't understand this section of the benefits and it almost took away from the other benefits.

What am I missing?

Thanks

Duncan

Duncan,

It looks like Tom A has been kind enough to help me answer the question. Let me know if you would like any additional info.

All the best,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Canadian wrote:
Travis R wrote:
Hi Chris,

Any new production updates? Are you still shooting for Spring 2012? How much do you think the ceramic upgrade will be per wheel?

Sorry, I don't mean to be a pest, but I'm very interested in your wheels...


No worries. You're not being a pest at all.

Production is going well:
  • Custom DISC Hubs should be ready any day now
  • Currently finalizing spoke lengths for Custom Sapim CX-Ray Order
  • Molds are still underway

We have no specific dates as of yet but are pushing for a 2012 season release. Obviously as early as possible. Ceramic upgrades should be in the $75-$100 range per wheel.

Feel free to ask any additional questions.

Take care,

Thanks for the update. I'm following as well and looking forward to the release of your wheels.


Larry Durland
Member of Team Firefighter
IM Blog: 34 Weeks & 17 Hours
Twitter: @larrydurland
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [ldurland] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ldurland wrote:
Canadian wrote:
Travis R wrote:
Hi Chris,

Any new production updates? Are you still shooting for Spring 2012? How much do you think the ceramic upgrade will be per wheel?

Sorry, I don't mean to be a pest, but I'm very interested in your wheels...


No worries. You're not being a pest at all.

Production is going well:
  • Custom DISC Hubs should be ready any day now
  • Currently finalizing spoke lengths for Custom Sapim CX-Ray Order
  • Molds are still underway

We have no specific dates as of yet but are pushing for a 2012 season release. Obviously as early as possible. Ceramic upgrades should be in the $75-$100 range per wheel.

Feel free to ask any additional questions.

Take care,

Thanks for the update. I'm following as well and looking forward to the release of your wheels.

Thanks for the kind words!


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks both. I admit that i'm still not 100% convinced, but those pages helped.

Duncan
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Duncan74 wrote:
Thanks both. I admit that i'm still not 100% convinced, but those pages helped.

Duncan

Well, if there is anything I can do to try and help clear something up, let me know.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Canadian wrote:
Duncan74 wrote:
Thanks both. I admit that i'm still not 100% convinced, but those pages helped.

Duncan


Well, if there is anything I can do to try and help clear something up, let me know.

Same here...what are you still not "100% convinced" about?

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am curious about your layup. I know it's non-structural so it might be a little less important how the fibers are oriented, but I was wondering how many layers were required for a fairing and how they're oriented and so on. I'm also curious about your molds. Do you have two halves that you bond together? Could you post some pictures that you might have of the actual mold or the design?

I realize if you don't want to disclose too much if there are company secrets and such, but I'm just curious.
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
nice to see your progress with your wheels.

When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [timskee] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
timskee wrote:
I am curious about your layup. I know it's non-structural so it might be a little less important how the fibers are oriented, but I was wondering how many layers were required for a fairing and how they're oriented and so on. I'm also curious about your molds. Do you have two halves that you bond together? Could you post some pictures that you might have of the actual mold or the design?


I realize if you don't want to disclose too much if there are company secrets and such, but I'm just curious.


I don't have any pictures of our new molds at the current time as they are still being constructed. The best estimation of carbon fiber thickness is approximately 0.5mm thick. It's surprisingly rigid for that thickness. Our original prototypes were 0.3mm thick. The carbon fiber comes in large sheets in pre-determined thicknesses with the resin already in place. The factory cuts the carbon fiber in "mold-specific" shapes and applies them to the mold. They are actually quite sticky. It's pretty cool to watch. I wanted to take pictures and videos of the process but the factory wouldn't let me for privacy reasons. A lot of the companies we know well over here in America use the same factory we are using and it wouldn't be fair for me to show you the production of Company X's products. My brother and I are planning another trip to Taiwan during our production and hopefully we can convince them to take some picture/videos of our products being produced.

The fairings will be constructed with several seams. This is pretty standard... even for structural carbon wheels. This greatly reduces waste (keeping costs down) and looks good all at the same time. You can kind of see what I'm talking about in this picture from our old prototype wheels.

Take care,




Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [qqqq] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
qqqq wrote:
nice to see your progress with your wheels.

Thank you!


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Chris,

I'm really excited about the wheels. I have just a few question I hope you can answer.

1. Will the rear disc be tubular or clincher? I'm looking to get 60 front with dissc in the rear.
2. What will be the weight for each of those mentioned in question 1?
3. What is the delivery timeline? Assuming I order on 2/20 from your site, how long before you guys ship them out?
4. What kind of hubs are you guys using with your wheels?

Thank you,
Nutti
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [kirrapoint] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not trying to be an asshole, but this info is literally available on the forum in multiple places by performing a simple search, on FLOs website and on their facebook page. Chris will no doubt answer your questions, but the answers are readily available.

"One Line Robert"
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My bad. I must admit that I'm too lazy to do the research. But I also want to hear it directly from Chris since some of the responses have been up for a while and might be outdated.
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [kirrapoint] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm not Chris, and yes he will answer, but I think this forum would be a better place if we didn't have industry people rehashing things again and again; and rather let them design, improve and focus on their products and business outside of this small world of ST (this is only my opinion).

Anyway:
1. clincher only
2. 1260 grams
3. see http://forum.slowtwitch.com/..._latest_reply;so=ASC
4. hubs are some sort of design typically used but customized for Flo, "custom to create a better union between the carbon fiber and the hub (on the disc). The guts of our hubs are also based on a tried an true design that has been used successfully by other manufacturers without durability issues. "
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [kirrapoint] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kirrapoint wrote:
Hi Chris,

I'm really excited about the wheels. I have just a few question I hope you can answer.

1. Will the rear disc be tubular or clincher? I'm looking to get 60 front with dissc in the rear.
2. What will be the weight for each of those mentioned in question 1?
3. What is the delivery timeline? Assuming I order on 2/20 from your site, how long before you guys ship them out?
4. What kind of hubs are you guys using with your wheels?

Thank you,
Nutti

Thanks Runless.

Nutti,

Runless is right on the money with his responses. Regarding the timeline... it really depends on when you place your order. All of the shipping and time line information, pictures etc is available to those who sign up for the launch at our homepage. Let me know if you have any additional questions.

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: FLO 60 and 90 wheel review [Running Doc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Man...clicked "checkout" three minutes after the site went live and they were out. Bummer.
Quote Reply