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Unions are BIG Business
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http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A

I have to say, these numbers are the opposite of what I expected to see.

Of the top 20 political donors most are solid democrat. At least 12 are Unions...and their total donations dwarf the corporations to republicans.

For all the talk about Koch Industries they actaully gave 10% of their donations to democrats...and were DWARFED by union donations.
Union donations were off the freaking charts when you compile that whole list.

Now I get why the Dems are so upset. That's a LOT of money!

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Re: Unions are BIG Business [BeachboyWI] [ In reply to ]
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I tallied everything on a spreadsheet...

Total Donated: $2,180,149,543

To Democrats: $1,293,080,241 (59.31%)

To Republicans: $858,606,177 (39.38%)

And we're worried about the big bad corporations giving too much to the Republicans???

Am I missing something here? I am honestly shocked at these numbers. I consider myself a fiscal conservative (liberal on some social policies). But I really expected to see corporations donating big dollars to republicans...but most seem to donate to both parties. While Unions...primarily give to Dems.

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Re: Unions are BIG Business [BeachboyWI] [ In reply to ]
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BeachboyWI wrote:
I tallied everything on a spreadsheet...

Total Donated: $2,180,149,543

To Democrats: $1,293,080,241 (59.31%)

To Republicans: $858,606,177 (39.38%)

And we're worried about the big bad corporations giving too much to the Republicans???

Am I missing something here? I am honestly shocked at these numbers. I consider myself a fiscal conservative (liberal on some social policies). But I really expected to see corporations donating big dollars to republicans...but most seem to donate to both parties. While Unions...primarily give to Dems.

And we wonder why our elected representatives act the way that they do? They are bought and paid for by unions.
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [creek] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
And we wonder why our elected representatives act the way that they do? They are bought and paid for by unions.

Which is why the Employee Free Choice Act just went sailing through Congress and is now law....


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Re: Unions are BIG Business [BeachboyWI] [ In reply to ]
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BeachboyWI wrote:
I tallied everything on a spreadsheet...

Total Donated: $2,180,149,543

To Democrats: $1,293,080,241 (59.31%)

To Republicans: $858,606,177 (39.38%)

And we're worried about the big bad corporations giving too much to the Republicans???

Am I missing something here? I am honestly shocked at these numbers. I consider myself a fiscal conservative (liberal on some social policies). But I really expected to see corporations donating big dollars to republicans...but most seem to donate to both parties. While Unions...primarily give to Dems.

The only thing you may be missing (emphasis on may be) is the amount of money "donated" by the unions and how that money (in many cases) is extracted from the members of the union.  They are compelled to join and pay dues as a condition of employment (again many not all) and they don't have a say in how these dues are "donated"  (who they are donated to).

The other thing you may be missing is that if you don't like what you have found you can't boycott your local union (not that you would) like the unions are targeting local WI companies who had individuals who made a personal choice to donate to Walker and pubs.
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [creek] [ In reply to ]
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creek wrote:
And we wonder why our elected representatives act the way that they do? They are bought and paid for by unions.

No. The damn probably is that everyone is bought and paid for. Some are bought and paid for by unions, some by corporations. Of course, if it makes you feel better to point fingers and say "oh look we pay for politicians 10% less than that other party!", go ahead. Still stinks to me and anyone else who cares more about the system than partisan hackery.
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [Quel] [ In reply to ]
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Quel wrote:
creek wrote:
And we wonder why our elected representatives act the way that they do? They are bought and paid for by unions.


No. The damn probably is that everyone is bought and paid for. Some are bought and paid for by unions, some by corporations. Of course, if it makes you feel better to point fingers and say "oh look we pay for politicians 10% less than that other party!", go ahead. Still stinks to me and anyone else who cares more about the system than partisan hackery.

But the current system encourages partisan hackery.
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [ironmayb] [ In reply to ]
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we could like the corps that donated to the fleebag 14 and boycott those, or those that donated to barrett
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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jeffp wrote:
we could like the corps that donated to the fleebag 14 and boycott those, or those that donated to barrett

yeah but then we'd be Quel....
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [ironmayb] [ In reply to ]
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ironmayb wrote:
jeffp wrote:
we could like the corps that donated to the fleebag 14 and boycott those, or those that donated to barrett


yeah but then we'd be Quel....

I don't even know what that means.

People are free to buy or not buy goods from anywhere they choose. If you guys want to show your support for Walker/opposition to Democrats that way, you are certainly welcome to do so.
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [Quel] [ In reply to ]
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ex's comment fromthis AM was........

so are the protesters not going to use the roads?? or are they selectively picking out what won't impact themselves too much
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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jeffp wrote:
ex's comment fromthis AM was........

so are the protesters not going to use the roads?? or are they selectively picking out what won't impact themselves too much

Huh? Someone thinks they should be boycotting roads to avoid being hypocritical?
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [Quel] [ In reply to ]
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do folks just select some donors to boycott because it doesn't impact them greatly?

i am just asking the question. i imply nothing else.

did the road builders assoc donate to walker? is walker pro road building and anti snail rail? how is this different conceptually?
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [BeachboyWI] [ In reply to ]
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BeachboyWI wrote:

I have to say, these numbers are the opposite of what I expected to see.

Of the top 20 political donors most are solid democrat. At least 12 are Unions...and their total donations dwarf the corporations to republicans.

For all the talk about Koch Industries they actaully gave 10% of their donations to democrats...and were DWARFED by union donations.
Union donations were off the freaking charts when you compile that whole list.

Koch looks small because the law on corporate contributions changed significantly in 2010.

Wait a few years and then chart union contribution v. corporate contributions, you might find something different.
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [QuadsofFURY] [ In reply to ]
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QuadsofFURY wrote:
In Reply To:
And we wonder why our elected representatives act the way that they do? They are bought and paid for by unions.


Which is why the Employee Free Choice Act just went sailing through Congress and is now law....

The main reason why it did not go flying through is b/c Team Donkey got too bogged down in the ObamaCare fight.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

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Re: Unions are BIG Business [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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jeffp wrote:
do folks just select some donors to boycott because it doesn't impact them greatly?

i am just asking the question. i imply nothing else.

did the road builders assoc donate to walker? is walker pro road building and anti snail rail? how is this different conceptually?

If he was pro-road would they call him Walker??
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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jeffp wrote:
do folks just select some donors to boycott because it doesn't impact them greatly?

i am just asking the question. i imply nothing else.

did the road builders assoc donate to walker? is walker pro road building and anti snail rail? how is this different conceptually?

That seems like the type of questions someone should ask before making the statement about "why don't the hypocrites boycott roads?" :) I don't know the answers.
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [Quel] [ In reply to ]
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Quel wrote:
ironmayb wrote:
jeffp wrote:
we could like the corps that donated to the fleebag 14 and boycott those, or those that donated to barrett


yeah but then we'd be Quel....


I don't even know what that means.

People are free to buy or not buy goods from anywhere they choose. If you guys want to show your support for Walker/opposition to Democrats that way, you are certainly welcome to do so.

you said you don't know what that means. Then defined what that means. It wasn't meant to be negative. This is your position. Most days on its surface I would agree with it. In this particular case I find it a bit naive (at best), and I suspect those supporting it are hoping you see it for more than just that.

Personally, I'll stick to buying things from places for reasons other than whether or not individual employees of the establishment support a particular political agenda.
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [BeachboyWI] [ In reply to ]
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Is it somehow mysterious to you why unions don't give to the party that has spent over 30 years trying to destroy them? There is a reason the unions and the republicans have an antagoistic relationship.

But both parties are friends to corporations and the financial industry. Those two tend to donate money to the individual they believe will have power. And remarkably both parties give them pretty much anything they want.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [creek] [ In reply to ]
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walker, wisconsin ranger

he my drop kick you
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
Is it somehow mysterious to you why unions don't give to the party that has spent over 30 years trying to destroy them? There is a reason the unions and the republicans have an antagoistic relationship.

But both parties are friends to corporations and the financial industry. Those two tend to donate money to the individual they believe will have power. And remarkably both parties give them pretty much anything they want.

I wasn't surprised that the unions give to the dems.

I was surprised that the unions appear to dwarf corporations in terms of donations. For most of my life I've heard complaints that the republicans are funded by the big rich donors and big business while the Dems don't.

These numbers not only show the opposite is true...they show that the unions themselves are in fact the biggest business in town when it comes to political donations.

I found that to be surprising.

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Re: Unions are BIG Business [ironmayb] [ In reply to ]
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no!!!!! no bipartisan shopping!!!!
Last edited by: jeffp: Mar 15, 11 10:22
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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jeffp wrote:
no!!!!! no bipartisan shopping!!!!

I will admit that I am biased here. As I understand it the forklift driver for our company contributed $25 to Walker's campaign. I really hope saying that out loud doesn't sink our whole ship here.......
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [BeachboyWI] [ In reply to ]
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And we're worried about the big bad corporations giving too much to the Republicans???

Am I missing something here? I am honestly shocked at these numbers. I consider myself a fiscal conservative (liberal on some social policies). But I really expected to see corporations donating big dollars to republicans...but most seem to donate to both parties. While Unions...primarily give to Dems.


Obviously I follow my Union's politics closer than most. I know that the IAFF in the past 8 years has been more of a 60/40 split Dem/Rep in donations. This was brought about with changes to our FIREPAC which is how we actually donate money politically now. In fact, I'm not even sure that the IAFF can donate directly to a politician or at least it is limited to hard money...or something. The FIREPAC is where the money goes through and I get an annual statement (because I am a direct donor to the FIREPAC) for how that money is spent.

In terms of my Union, I understand precisely why and who we donate money to. Every candidate who wants a donation goes through a screening process that involves a questionairre which guages their support of fire fighter issues regardless of political party. If they support our issues, we support them...period.

I also know where the IAFF gets their money from. They get it from me...a taxpayer, a citizen, a worker, a fire fighter, a constituent.

What is a corporation? Why should I, or anybody, trust a corporation?

Is a corporation a citizen? Does a corporation have rights (like I supposedly do) in the Constitution?

Or is a corporation simply a legal entity constructed to shield a group of people (or sometimes 1 person) from paying exhorbitant taxes and possible legal entanglements?

Bernie



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2013-2014 Detroit Lions---13-3 until proved otherwise.
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [ironmayb] [ In reply to ]
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ironmayb wrote:
jeffp wrote:
no!!!!! no bipartisan shopping!!!!


I will admit that I am biased here. As I understand it the forklift driver for our company contributed $25 to Walker's campaign. I really hope saying that out loud doesn't sink our whole ship here.......


My opinion:
1) Cut out corporate and group giving.
2) Raise the cap on individual donations modestly, but make it the only way of donating. Not sure how feasible that is in terms of getting enough $$ to run a campaign like we are used to. Maybe make up a small public financing match there?
3) Make political donations secret. Same way you get a secret ballot. Keep records to avoid any fraud or breaking the donations caps, but make them only available to auditors, not public. I don't see why individual donations are so public yet group donations can now be shrouded under 20 layers of secrecy after Citizens United.

Removes corporate/union donation strangleholds. Makes the politicians less beholden to influential individuals or groups. And any union member could donate to a republican without fear of his co-workers looking for revenge. Still let individuals donate to political organizations that can run advertisements, but not let the organization bundle donations to give to specific candidates. Make them convince the people to donate money to those candidates.

I don't know, I can see the holes, but those can probably be filled. Seems better than what we've got now.
Last edited by: Quel: Mar 15, 11 11:02
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [slowbern] [ In reply to ]
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Or is a corporation simply a legal entity constructed to shield a group of people (or sometimes 1 person) from paying exhorbitant taxes and possible legal entanglements?

First off let's get this correct, Large Corporations don't pay any taxes, their customers do!!, because taxes are added to the end cost of most things everyone purchases. If you truly believe big business doesn't pay taxes then you should support doing away with all business taxes because companies don't pay taxes anyway ( look at the savings we could have in the IRS.)

Unions are no different when it comes to donating to candidates because unions are now Big Business, UAW is now part owners of Government Motors and Chrysler. If each member gives as individuals that's fine but if you limit business to donate you must do the same for unions they are both entities not individuals.

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Re: Unions are BIG Business [HWYMAN131] [ In reply to ]
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If you truly believe big business doesn't pay taxes then you should support doing away with all business taxes because companies don't pay taxes anyway

I do not believe this. And I also do not think that I said this.

Unions are no different when it comes to donating to candidates because unions are now Big Business, UAW is now part owners of Government Motors and Chrysler. If each member gives as individuals that's fine but if you limit business to donate you must do the same for unions they are both entities not individuals.

I am a fire fighter. I am not a businessman, a CPA, or a lawyer. I do not have any experience with how the Big Business and/or the UAW donates. My experience is limited to the IAFF (International Association of Fire Fighters). I am on my local's executive board, and have been for 5 years. I have access as an officer to many financial data. I know where money comes from and how it gets spent. Similarly, my members know this information as well (and so does everyone who donates to FIREPAC).

So when I say that I am comfortable with how my Union disperses money through FIREPAC to political candidates, I can say absolutely yes. Do I like every candidate that we endorse? Absolutely not. Do I vote for every candidate that we endorse? Nope. But I am comfortable knowing that we support candidates that are strong on fire fighter issues. I am comfortable that there is accountability for every dollar that I donate to FIREPAC.

Am I as comfortable with corporate donation? No, I am not. Look at the banking donations on that list. Almost 50/50 for all of them. That's called hedging your bets for political power later on. No matter who wins, you will have some sway. At least with the IAFF, there is an advocacy that is involved.

I do not know how other Unions operate, and I do not speak for them or their practices. I assume it is different than the IAFF, but I do not know. I'm certain they are bound by the same donation laws as we are.

Bernie




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2013-2014 Detroit Lions---13-3 until proved otherwise.
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [slowbern] [ In reply to ]
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slowbern wrote:
And we're worried about the big bad corporations giving too much to the Republicans???

Am I missing something here? I am honestly shocked at these numbers. I consider myself a fiscal conservative (liberal on some social policies). But I really expected to see corporations donating big dollars to republicans...but most seem to donate to both parties. While Unions...primarily give to Dems.


Obviously I follow my Union's politics closer than most. I know that the IAFF in the past 8 years has been more of a 60/40 split Dem/Rep in donations. This was brought about with changes to our FIREPAC which is how we actually donate money politically now. In fact, I'm not even sure that the IAFF can donate directly to a politician or at least it is limited to hard money...or something. The FIREPAC is where the money goes through and I get an annual statement (because I am a direct donor to the FIREPAC) for how that money is spent.

In terms of my Union, I understand precisely why and who we donate money to. Every candidate who wants a donation goes through a screening process that involves a questionairre which guages their support of fire fighter issues regardless of political party. If they support our issues, we support them...period.

I also know where the IAFF gets their money from. They get it from me...a taxpayer, a citizen, a worker, a fire fighter, a constituent.

What is a corporation? Why should I, or anybody, trust a corporation?

Is a corporation a citizen? Does a corporation have rights (like I supposedly do) in the Constitution?

Or is a corporation simply a legal entity constructed to shield a group of people (or sometimes 1 person) from paying exhorbitant taxes and possible legal entanglements?

Bernie



It isnt any different in my view.

My surprise was at the amount of money given by unions.
I don't like it that corps can give huge amounts...but I can defend that to a point because those businesses are using their profits to do so. Corporations always do what is in their own best interests. I think that much harsher limits should be in place as far as political donations and spending goes...but that's another topic.

Public Sector Unions (In Wisc) take dues from the membership which comes directly from the tax payer. Those are not profits they are taking from a business...they comes straight from the membership even if the member doesn't agree with who gets the money. Sure the member can find another job...but not all public sector jobs exist in the private sector. --fire fighter being one of those.

The distinction I draw isn't with why they are donating...I get that. Both entitities are doing what they feel is best for their interests. Fine.
What I don't like is that those union dues are typically mandatory in the public sector (often times in the private sector too) and that individuals have no say in those donations. As those union dues are automatically deducted...tax payers are directly funding political candidates. That just rubs me the wrong way.

That coupled with the fact that all my life I've heard that the republicans have all the big business donors locked up only to see this and find the unions are the biggest business of them all with regards to political donations. To me, that was very surprising.

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Re: Unions are BIG Business [BeachboyWI] [ In reply to ]
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The distinction I draw isn't with why they are donating...I get that. Both entitities are doing what they feel is best for their interests. Fine.
What I don't like is that those union dues are typically mandatory in the public sector (often times in the private sector too) and that individuals have no say in those donations. As those union dues are automatically deducted...tax payers are directly funding political candidates. That just rubs me the wrong way.


Like I said, I really only come from the experience of the IAFF. It is not entirely true that a member of the IAFF (even an individual member) has no say how political money is spent. Every dollar is approved in one way or another. I grant you, that you are sometimes a "voice in the wilderness". But through various levels (local>district>international) you absolutely have a say. Also, if there is a specific candidate that an individual feels deserves support, that information is listened to and strongly considered at the FIREPAC level.

I will say that it was not always this way. When President Schaitberger came in to the IAFF, this was one of the first things that he changed (noticing that there is a huge political affiliation disparity in the membership of the IAFF). This is why the IAFF/FIREPAC uses this questionairre format.

Money does not go directly from my dues to political candidates...I know that for sure, at least not without permission (of a sort). There is a per capita tax on my Local from the International. That per capita tax is earmarked for all sorts of things, FIREPAC is part of it...and actually a small part of it. At every biennial convention, we apportion our per capitas and decide how much needs to be collected and spent. This is then set for 2 years. As I said, I then have access to the FIREPAC through a process to have my voice heard as to how that money is spent. In my case, union dues CAN be automatically deducted but are not required to be automatically deducted. I could choose to write a monthly check instead. It is certainly more convenient for me and my Local to have my dues automatically deducted.

In my case, tax payers are also directly funding the purchase of Ford vehicles since my paycheck comes right out of the tax-supported General Fund and I have that money directly deposited to a bank account that does nothing except my car payment.

Public Sector Unions (In Wisc) take dues from the membership which comes directly from the tax payer. Those are not profits they are taking from a business...they comes straight from the membership even if the member doesn't agree with who gets the money. Sure the member can find another job...but not all public sector jobs exist in the private sector. --fire fighter being one of those.

I would say this. IAFF fire fighters in Wisconsin have the EXACT same process as I do in Michigan. The labor laws might be different (and are) but the way FIREPAC money and dues are used is exactly the same.


I don't like it that corps can give huge amounts...but I can defend that to a point because those businesses are using their profits to do so. Corporations always do what is in their own best interests.

That is interesting. So a business uses their profits, which is basically from me (or us) the consumer, who may or may not agree with the politics of that business. If I buy a Honeywell air cleaner, I don't necessarily buy it because they support Republicans 85% of the time (or whatever the percentage is).

I don't necessarily know what the answers are. I personally trust the process that I live and operate under (even though I don't always agree with it). I know that every dollar is coming from people who have chosen to be a part of that membership and have (at least though representation) a process to have their voice heard. Our political dollars are spent in such a way that it goes towards furthering fire fighter issues and safety.

I don't necessarily trust Corporate America. I think you said it best, "Corporations always do ehat is in their own best interests." I do not think that Corporate Amerca's best interest is "CITIZEN" America's best interest.

Bernie




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2013-2014 Detroit Lions---13-3 until proved otherwise.
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Re: Unions are BIG Business [slowbern] [ In reply to ]
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There is a difference between buying a product and paying taxes.

The money may come from an individual...but uncle sammy has a way of compelling people to pay them.

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