Hmmm... I'm not sure you're going to have a lot of folks agreeing with you here... I rode a 200k bike trek at 6 months pregnant. I didn't race it, but I bet you'd call me selfish for having done it.

So while you're at it, how about you stop driving your car when pregnant? or crossing the street?

Everyone has a different idea of risk, of what is acceptable risk to them. Once you're pregnant, then you can decide what level of risk is acceptable to you.

I think you summed it up tho: people are going to do what they want to do, none of your business.

AP

(shaking head, assuming this is a troll)

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

Oh, of course. I've posted something that Andypants doesn't agree with, so I must be a troll. Huh?!? No, I actually do think that exposing your unborn child to an unnecessary risk such as a kick in the gut during a sprint triathlon swim is reckless. You're the first person I've come across that doesn't, out of many that I, and my wife, have discussed this with.

It's fine, I don't care what you think, nor am I trying to "get people here to agree with me", as you say. Just stating my observations and opinions. And IMO, your analogies of driving the car and crossing the street are weak. Sure, there's life risk to just getting out of bed in the morning, you forgot to add slipping in the shower. Assuming you don't shut yourself in during the waning moments of your pregnancy, you're correct, there are all sorts of things that can happen. But, you have to go to work, you have to go to your dr. appts, so you have to go out of the house and get exposed to those risks. You really put racing a sprint triathlon in the same category? I don't, and I think that you're reaching to try and justify it that way.

I don't consider you selfish for riding a 200k tour while pregnant. Exercise is good for you and your unborn during pregnancy, as others have said. But, that's a completely different level of stress you are putting your body through, it’s not a race! And you don't have others around you, oblivious to your condition, going as hard as they can. So, again I don't see a strong analogy. But, I would consider you selfish and reckless for racing a sprint triathlon, if you were so pregnant you looked like you may pop in T1.

Just my opinion, cheers!

How do you know they were "RACING" (as opposed to racing--out having fun)? If you were so concerned, I guess you could have asked them.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Why would that matter? Sure, maybe she was doing the race "just for fun". Everyone else was racing, it was a race afterall. I'm sure she could still take a foot in her very pregnant belly, regardless of how easy she took it.

Maybe she swam at the back/side and completely avoided crowds and potential kicks.

She could have been doing the swim leg of a relay no?

Personally for me, I agree - no way would I have done any racing while that pregnant. I didn't do any races at all while pregnant. Shoot, when I got that big, the last thing I would have wanted to do was go "race" or even participate - it was enough of a stretch to get out of the house and walk 2 miles. I've gotten a good beating in just a small triathlon swim, no thanks to let racer X hit the belly with the precisous cargo... But everyone does make their own decisions on their own comfort level of risk. Mine and yours is similar - others not.

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Harry: "I expected the Rocky Mountains to be a little rockier than this."
Loyd: "I was thinking the same thing. That John Denver's full of shit, man."

Bingo. We each get to make that decision for ourselves.

That was the jist of my post, OP.

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

Maybe she was smart enough to start the race well on the outside and keep alert for others around her (or wait for everyone to go ahead before starting), it can be done, especially if she is a confident swimmer. I've done a few tri's but never been kicked in the gut , normally it's arms clanging or leg/hand contact; if I come up on a slower swimmer I either alter course or tread water until I can overtake to avoid getting kicked. Personally I would be more worried about the bike portion of a tri than any other part when pregnant - no way you could afford to crash...but...each to their own. I hope both ladies had an enjoyable and safe "race".

I think the title itself elicits an automatic negative response - if it were entitled something like "Pregnant racing and risk" it might have been automatically taken a different way.

For the sake of argument, ultimately I feel like it should be both the mothers' and fathers' decision about the risk of racing on their unborn child. If something were to happen, and the baby was lost due to a racing incident, I feel like it should fall on the mutual decision about the race and not be a decision made only by the mother. And whether or not an outsider agrees with the decision to race while pregnant, that outside person will not have to deal with the consequences of an unforeseen complication to doing that race. It will be the parents of the baby that will be having to come to terms with it. Sure, seeing a pregnant woman racing might elicit negative feelings in other people, either because they are concerned about the health of the baby or the mother, because they know that a triathlon swim can be dangerous and painful, or even because they wish they would be so lucky to be blessed with a pregnancy (like me) and would be so grateful to be a parent that they can't imagine taking any sort of risk in fear of losing the child. I could see myself falling in either the first or last categories.

However, despite my feelings about pregnancy and racing during a pregnancy, the woman in question could have a ton of experience racing, could be a mother of many children and pregnancy is kind of a second nature to them (and know their limits/have consulted their doctor, etc.), or minimize risks involved as other people have stated. I would NOT call it selfishness to race while pregnant, I would feel sad that I have had trouble TTC (and would be a bit jealous). But it's not my place to make decisions about her family or even make her feel the least bit guilty about what she and the father decide about the baby - they are the ones who will deal with the fallout of the choice (good or bad) NOT me.

Respect the choices of others whether you agree or not if the outcome does not directly involve you. And if the outcome involves you, be respectful and sensitive to where the other person is coming from - approaching a sticky situation in attack mode does not work.

I know 2 local offroad pros who both rode mtn. bikes and ran trails right up until the day the delivered. I guess it is your level of confidence in the sport you do. One of them ran everyday of her pregnancy and 8 miles the day before she had the kid.

I guess some people don't see it as a risk, when it is something they do everyday and have no physical reason NOT to do it.

That said, I have done literally hundreds of races over the past 20 years, and NEVER ONCE have been kicked in the stomach. Never. And that includes quite a few mass IM swims, with 2700 people. And my bike crashes have been in training, never once in a race.

I think you are making a judgement about a situation of which you have no intimate factual knowledge of the participant and her background.

OR she could have been a phenomenal swimmer and totally led the entire race.
OR she could have been there just swimming around before the beginning of the race.
OR she could have been in the last wave and waited to be the last person.
OR she could have swam with a keen awareness of who was around her and judged her distances to not swim too close.

My point: You have no idea the entirety of the situation. You made a quick judgement on a person and not only her status but her morals. That's a pretty big leap, dontcha think?

If a decent swimmer, it's VERY easy to know where people are around you during a swim and be able to judge the likelihood that person's going to kick you. Hell, even if you're NOT a great swimmer, it's a fairly easy thing to do. I've had plenty of races where I've stayed outside of the scrum and had a clean race and not gotten roughed up or kicked at all. I imagine that someone hanging off to the side or the back wouldn't have a tough go of that. Similarly, I have no issues while on my bike keeping an eye out for those around me - if I'm passing a squirrely rider, I give them plenty of room. I try to look back and keep an eye out to see if someone's coming up on me so I know they're there.

Your initial response to AP was a bit harsh. Don't ask our opinions and then get shitty when we give them. Your judgement: the woman was irresponsible and totally ridiculous for being there. Our response: you didn't watch the entire thing nor think she was in danger enough to bring it up to her. I agree with some of the others, I wasn't there, but I think it could be done smartly so as to not endanger onesself too much. I also agree that it's none of your business. We each are responsible and in control only of ourselves.

I've never been pregnant, so I can't speak as to what I'd have done. But I do hope that I'm able to exercise throughout a pregnancy. If that involves showing up to have fun at a race - and doing the smart things to be safe - hell yeah!

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AW

Never would I race that pregnant. What's the point? The risk is far too great and I know myself, when the gun goes off, I'm full tilt. Some girls can just race for "fun"- to each is own. I was so uncomfortable at 6 months that leaning over on a bike and running became impossible for me.

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Twitter: @jayasports
Web: http://www.jayasports.com

Were these people doing a mtn. bike RACE, or a trail running RACE? Was it a competitive context? That's all I'm saying, is that I think it's reckless to expose your unborn child to injury risk brought on by other people during a race. I think it's fantastic if women can remain active, and exercise all the way through their pregnancy. It's healthy for mother and child, so why not? By why have to do it in a race context? Certainly, there are risks involved with doing anything active, but seems to me those risks are amplified in a race. We're talking about your baby!(not yours specifically) If someone is just taking it "easy" in a race, making attempts to avoid others, then aren't they essentially just working out? Why not just let the race wait until you have A LOT less to lose?

That's great that you've never been kicked in the stomach during a race. I myself am a multiple Ironman finisher, and I have never been kicked in the stomach. But, that's not proof that it can't happen. My mentioning being kicked in the stomach is only an example, probably more to do with the fact that the discussion thread is pregnancy related. But, there are many things that can happen in a race, out of your control. The bike is probably more of a concern than the swim, or the run. A good friend of mine, an accomplished cyclist, was taken out of IM Wisconsin last year by someone who went to pass, didn't take a look where she was going, and turned right into him, going fast downhill. He spent the rest of his race day, and several days after, in the hospital with multiple severe injuries. It's a good thing he wasn't pregnant. I have another friend who was taken out the year before, in a similar fashion, 2 weeks before IMWI and he wasn't able to start the race. Why take those risks when you're pregnant?

I suppose you could spend all day dreaming up "what if" scenarios that make it sound better to you. The woman I observed did not lead the entire race, she started in the wave before me. If she was just "there just swimming around before the beginning of the race", as you say, then she did so after being body marked, and while wearing a race issued swim cap. She wasn't in the last wave, she started approximately in the middle of the race, shortly before me. She very well may have been a keen swimmer, able to safely judge distances that she swam to others. Doesn't mean someone else not so keen couldn't swim over the top of her.

So, we can then assume that if you were pregnant, you'd be ok with exposing your unborn child to the potential of injury if some joe-schmoe(who's not as good a cyclist as you apparently are) took you out on the bike, and you crashed? You'd be ok with taking that risk? All for a sprint tri that you could race next year, and many years to come? Showing up at a race, and "doing the smart things", as you say, doesn't insulate you or your baby at all from other people that don't do the smart things.

Sorry you think my response to AP was harsh, I don't. I just don't appreciate being called a troll, simply because someone disagrees with me.

I was not yet doing triathlons when I was pregnant, but I also had to stop running very early in pregnancy because it hurt too much (abdominally).

While I have never been kicked in the swim, I also do not have a pregnant belly that protrudes while I am racing.

More concerning to me is that balance is VERY different while pregnant and I would not recommend bike riding off of a trainer after about 15 weeks due to this balance change. I am not talking about professionals here - yes women run marathons....but if this is your hobby???? Really why would you risk not being able to react normally to unpredictable race conditions? For a hobby!

Personally, I was so swollen and had varicosities in my vulva - a bike seat would have been incredibly painful.

funny how you're getting slammed for making the same remarks some womens made in the "Pregnancy and Ironman" thread that started this discussion to begin with.

In my experience, women who have difficulty getting pregnant or staying pregnant tend to be much more cautious when it comes to excercising and when they become pregnant, they don't take ANY risks. I think many women who have never experienced a problem in pregnancy don't view exercise as something that has the potential to harm the baby. During my first pregnancy, I went for a long, easy walk at week 13 and miscarried a few days later - even though the two events were probably not related, I cut out exercise during pregnancy after that.

The problem with these kinds of posts is that you will get advice from a) people that have never had kids or b) young women who were fortunate enough to pull off the perfect pregnancy and assume its the same for all pregnancies and all women.

My ex wife broke water with our first child when riding her bicycle on a casual ride, but that was not racing.

Triathlon is a selfish enough individual activity. Don't bring future newborns into it.

I should preface this by saying I have not read the other thread referred to; however, in context of this thread, I hate this conversation. I don't know why there is still this notion that pregnant women, who were active before pregnancy have to stop participating while pregnant. I have had people say to me "women should not lift their hands above their head while pregnant", I mean, really, come on.

That being said, since you have judgedthese women so quickly, there are some people who would think that going that route you are going, IVF, is selfish! Just something else for you to consider.

Good luck with trying and your family just remember there are lots of different ways to view these things and don't worry about it.

x2. My concern would have to do with balance on the bike. I worked out religiously throughout both pregnancies, but no tris or biking. I ran quite a lot, just at an easy pace. The bike's the part that would concern me, BUT, like other's have said, it's a personal decision.

hey you better agree with the women here, especially the moderators, otherwise they will shut off your account as they always do if they don't like what you say etc!!

time to kiss their ass!!

Please. We're just not that into you.

You pretend to ask a question, but really you are just wanting people to agree with your position on this. You feel strongly that late-term participation in athletic events is selfish and dangerous. Others disagree. I know you don't want to hear it, but this is one of those areas in which there is quite a bit of room for legitimate disagreement. As a potential parent, you might want to get used to this -- there are lots and lots of topics related to parenting that will elicit this type of response: moms working outside the home when they don't financially "have" to; the wisdom of allowing your kids to eat processed foods; how serious should young kids take participation in team sports; giving birth control to kids under 18 . . . . . The list goes on and on. It's best to make your own judgments based on your own research and values. To be bothered by how anyone else is parenting their kids or soon-to-be kids (except in the extreme Balloon Boy-type situations) is a fool's errand.

"It's best to make your own judgments based on your own research and values." --- Thanks for writing this. This is exactly what I've done, I've made an observation of something in the world, and made a judgement on how that thing would apply to my own life, given my personal values. Most of the dissent here seems to focus on me being "judgemental", and how it's none of my business. Was I "judgemental"? Of course! I observed a thing(in this case a choice), and I made the judgement that I would not make this same choice myself, and kept this judgement to myself. Was this out of line? Of course not! It would have been out of line had I approached her and tried to get her to change her choice, because of my opinion. But I didn't do that.

You feel strongly that late-term participation in athletic events is selfish and dangerous. Others disagree.

Well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that falling off of a bike in your third trimester is dangerous

Oh jeez. Are you just pushing my buttons? I put my kids in daycare when they were little because toddlers irritate me and I wanted to work. Whaddya think about that? I let my 8-year-old ride a mile and a half to his friend's house. He could have been kidnapped! He could have been hit by a car! Whaddya think about that? I sometimes say "f*ck" in front of my kids. Ya think social services should be called? If some wicked buff pregnant gal wants to ride her bike in a race, it's really none of my business or the state's business or your business or the OP's business. We could all be paralyzed by "what ifs".

If some wicked buff pregnant gal wants to ride her bike in a race, it's really none of my business or the state's business or your business or the OP's business.

I agree. Nonetheless, it's still poor judgment.

You realize that a baby is incredibly well protected by the mother's body and it has to be one hell of a kick to the stomach or bike wreck to do any damage to the unborn child? It's tough to get people to realize this because of the innate desire to protect children and stuff like that but once you take away emotion and look at it logically, it really is tough to hurt a fetus but not impossible.

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Oh Amy, how I miss you and wish you would come back and post more!

Hey, guess what? I'm in Pendleton OR right now. :-) I'm going to track down your parents and tell them you say the F-word in front of their grandkids.

Early in pregnancy that is more tru. But late term, if a woman were in a bike wreck she likely would have a placental abruption, endangering both her and the baby. A BAD wreck she could shear her uterus right off the cervix, losing both the baby and her ability to have any more (if she survives).

Bingo. Now I know why I felt like this entire post was just trolling...

Hey, where you been???

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

I agree. Nonetheless, it's still poor judgment.

Pregnant women make decisions every day that could be considered poor judgement but we gloss right over it. Statistcally speaking, getting in the car and driving puts her at greater risk than riding her bike. Healthy and strong pregnant women aren't fragile little flowers. Mom is doing something she loves to do. Hiking, running, riding her bike through the neighborhood, shopping, all physical activity creates risk. Shutting women in the house for the duration of their "laying in" went out of fashion a long time ago.

When that kid grows up he/she will know they did their first triathlon before they were even born. Pretty cool bragging rights.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Bingo what? Did she write something profound, that hadn't already been written? Hardly.

Exactly, and active women should continue to be active throughout pregnancy, if they want to. But why do a race? We've already been over this, someone else could take you out. Why risk your kid for that? Just workout/exercise on your own, save the race for a time when you can race it hard, and don't have to risk injury to your kid. No one is saying shut the pregnant woman in the house.

Being in a race is less risky than being in the car with hundreds of other cars hurdling down the road at 65 MPH.

What else shouldn't she do? Will you do all the shopping for your wife? Will you drive her to every single place she needs to go?

All I'm saying is there seems to be a lack of perspective. Many many things bring risk. A race is less risky than things she will do every day but I don't hear anyone flipping out over it. Because she is seen as being selfish she is being criticised. This was likely the last race she will be doing for a very long time and as soon as that baby comes there won't be room for anything but that baby. More power to her.

save the race for a time when you can race it hard

Please don't tell me you are one of those people who think the only reason to do a race is to race it hard. There are many reasons to race not all of them are to win.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

I completely agree that many things bring risk, but she has to do that sprint triathlon? Really? That can't wait? Sure, if she's going to leave the house and work, shop, whatever, there could be risk of some accident happening. But, as a parent to be, isn't it her responsibility to make good choices on behalf of her unborn kid, when the kid can't make the decision themselves? So, don't you have to draw the line somewhere? Stuff like going to work, and grocery shopping are necessities, and I guess the mother will have to accept those risks, unless she chooses to be a shut-in. Going to the grocery store for the family isn't a selfish act, is it? I think racing is, since it's not a necessity and is a goal only of the mother. It could be the last race she does for awhile, that's between her and her husband/partner. But, that's the point, she's choosing something that benefits her alone, but the risk isn't just there for her. It's also there for someone who wasn't part of the decision to race, her unborn.

What else shouldn't she do? I don't know. My wife used to play in a women's hockey league. No checking, but plenty of pucks flying around, and you're still skating on a hard slippery surface. I would think a pregnant woman shouldn't continue to play hockey. What do you think? Would you play hockey pregnant? Would you race a tri pregnant?

No, I don't think the only reason to race is to win. I do plenty of races, haven't won one yet! :)

I hear what you are saying, I just don't think it is as horrible as you think it is. When she goes shopping with her friends and puts the baby in a car seat to go to the mall with her, that is just as selfish but I don't think most people would have a problem with it.

Her reasons for doing the race are her own. That literally may be the last one she ever does and it could have been a major part of her life. Ultimately you don't know the story so passing judgement just on what you see for a couple minutes will drive you nuts.

I'm sure plenty of people will look at your wife, whom I truely hope has a successful pregnancy, and wonder what she is doing and why and may have a problem with it.

Different standards. Yours, and mine, aren't the only ones, and one isn't necessarily better than the other.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Very true, different people have different standards. I don't agree that going to the mall with friends is selfish in the same way as racing a triathlon.

You're right, I don't know her whole story, but I also don't need to. For me, there are no other details that could be uncovered that would suddenly make me think that a little sprint triathlon would be worth risking injury to my unborn kid. Understand that this woman was very late term. She was huge, looked like she was hours away from giving birth. I'd never race in that condition. As I've said, my passing judgement on her was relevant to me alone. I didn't do anything to impact her choice, because of my opinion. I'd say we all make similar observations and decisions for our own lives like that all the time. I'm not being driven nuts by this! Just posting my observation/opinion here for discussion.

Cheers!

Bingo in that AmyCO summed up what I was feeling when reading your initial post, which is why it felt like a trolling post.

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

Would you feel different if you and yuour wife had no trouble conceiving and had a few kids running around? Really, think of it. I was in your shoes some years ago, and have no problem with this. My wife, totally the opposite.

Your issue isn't with the racing, per se...is it? It's the bike riding, if I understand correctly.

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