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WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago.
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If you know someone who is going to be out there for "a while," we want to hear their story. Please, send them our way.
http://www.chicagonow.com/...marathon-runner.html

Thank you

David
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [tridaddy7] [ In reply to ]
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I just hope the temps are not over say 72.5F as it will be SO SO SO hot so that the folks who cant run a half in under three hours will almost die...then again, if it is under 68F then the hypothermia will set in rapidly.

Sorry but it seems to me that more than half of the folks who are at a mary any more are just fat ass' trying to get a shirt and medal....looking to one day tell a story about the saga and suffering of their 11 minute pace "race".

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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I just hope the temps are not over say 72.5F as it will be SO SO SO hot so that the folks who cant run a half in under three hours will almost die...then again, if it is under 68F then the hypothermia will set in rapidly.

Sorry but it seems to me that more than half of the folks who are at a mary any more are just fat ass' trying to get a shirt and medal....looking to one day tell a story about the saga and suffering of their 11 minute pace "race".



Wow, thanks for capturing so perfectly why I traveled twice to New Hampshire (from Northern Illinois) to do the Mooseman Half, but won't drive 45 minutes to do Rockman. I've also done Musselman, Eagleman, and Spirit of Racine. I'm doing Steelhead next year and briefly thought about doing Rockman as well. Thankfully you posted, and I came to my senses.

Not everyone is fast. I wish I was. I keep training, keep working, but it's not a quick process (and I've been doing this and IM for 5 years). Not all slow people are in it for the medal, t-shirt or to brag about it at work. I enjoy the training and "racing." Even if the "racing" is just against myself.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [mellyf] [ In reply to ]
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+1. I'm so glad to learn that my laughably slow pace isn't really racing. What a relief! :-D

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The beatings will continue until morale improves
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Like mdraegernyc I'm am really relieved the 13 minute miles I "raced" for my double marathon isn't really racing. Take lots of pressure off me for the 100k I'm doing at the end of Oct. Thanks!

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [mellyf] [ In reply to ]
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I just hope the temps are not over say 72.5F as it will be SO SO SO hot so that the folks who cant run a half in under three hours will almost die...then again, if it is under 68F then the hypothermia will set in rapidly.

Sorry but it seems to me that more than half of the folks who are at a mary any more are just fat ass' trying to get a shirt and medal....looking to one day tell a story about the saga and suffering of their 11 minute pace "race".



Wow, thanks for capturing so perfectly why I traveled twice to New Hampshire (from Northern Illinois) to do the Mooseman Half, but won't drive 45 minutes to do Rockman. I've also done Musselman, Eagleman, and Spirit of Racine. I'm doing Steelhead next year and briefly thought about doing Rockman as well. Thankfully you posted, and I came to my senses.

Not everyone is fast. I wish I was. I keep training, keep working, but it's not a quick process (and I've been doing this and IM for 5 years). Not all slow people are in it for the medal, t-shirt or to brag about it at work. I enjoy the training and "racing." Even if the "racing" is just against myself.
Don't get so worked up. I believe R10C isn't necessarily putting down the slow folks. The Chicago Marathon has a LOT of "one and done" marathoners. People who do the RW "run 3 days/week and finish a marathon plan." The ones who don't make athletics a lifestyle before anyone says "At least they got off the couch." They'll be right back on the couch as soon as they get their medal, working on making their asses look like 150lbs of chewed bubble gum. Hopefully, a couple really will turn things around. I'm guessing a majority of the people who complained when it was so hot fell into this category. They were forced to have to do it again to get a medal; sacrifice 3-4 days/wk for 12 whole weeks.

You're cutting off the nose.... I believe you have a pretty good event in your back yard. Kudos to you for working hard, and no need to put racing in quotes. Keep moving forward!
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [JenHS] [ In reply to ]
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100k - now you know that is a whole other ball game, I dont thing most of us - myself included could do 100k at ANY pace :-)

I do however stick to the fact that unless you are PC, have serious medical/weightloss or in a more mature age group....11 minute miles for a person who is 25-40 and in any inkling of a decent shape 11 minute pace is not a "race", it is a "participate" - there is nothing wrong with participating. Where it becomes laughable is when people will spend the few weeks after their "race" bragging about their BOP finish...then there are folks (many on this forum) who RACE, they put it all out there and RACE...but, you would never ever know it randomly in a coffee shop. It is a shame to me that USA has the slowest AVG Marathon and Iron distance times on the planet. If you look at the avg. AG at Roth, WA and other races (I dont know of any international marathons as that is now what I am in to) to name any off hand - but I do know (from reading an article in Running magazine) that the times are getting slower and slower - yet participants expect more and more and more. I could mention the IronMan "mile to mile run course buffet"....but that would make me elitest. ;-)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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I just hope the temps are not over say 72.5F as it will be SO SO SO hot so that the folks who cant run a half in under three hours will almost die...then again, if it is under 68F then the hypothermia will set in rapidly.

Sorry but it seems to me that more than half of the folks who are at a mary any more are just fat ass' trying to get a shirt and medal....looking to one day tell a story about the saga and suffering of their 11 minute pace "race".

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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [swimfan] [ In reply to ]
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You imagine the replies had the OP been on letsrun.com? Hell, they woulda found the OP's mothers e-mail and sent her mean messages for birthing this person....but, thats their style.


And as for my race - I PREFER that the knoingly BOP folks NOT sign up. This year we paid over $450 in police services so that we could keep control of intersections on the bike course for one last cyclist who was on the course - a full 2 hours behind every other person who got off of the bike course. So, the options are...pull the cops...there is only one person left out right? Or, leave the cops and pay....or do what WTC, NAS and more and more folks are doing - TIME LIMITS. I guess that time limits are elitest too I bet cause they are just their to fulfil a personal life goal. I just dont get it how folks cant seem to take notice that people at the far BOP are getting a much higher ROI on their entry fee and cost a TON more to keep on the course (police, ambulance, voulenteers, electrical, and on and on....all waiting - for folks who could have TRIED to train).

I think that everyone should have to see an IM race at midnight.....12:00:01 am and the lights go OUT, music off, shows over, stick it with a fork cause no matter where you are on the course...they are done.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [tridaddy7] [ In reply to ]
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You should post this on the Chicagoland's TNT website if you are serious. You will not walk alone.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [paul_tx] [ In reply to ]
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OK. I have to admit, I have no idea what a TNT web site is? Can you explain? Also to the rest of the people complaining about slow runners, what does it matter? If you are "that" fast, why does something behind you bother you so much?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Dude, lighten up! We are the most obese nation in the world. Most weatlhy and most obese. Obesity is a huge problem in the U.S.. Be happy these people are getting off the couch and trying to even complete (or "participate in") a marathon, IM, triathlon, whatever. That's much better than sitting around and doing nothing. If they want to brag about it afterwards, who cares?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [tridaddy7] [ In reply to ]
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TNT= Team In Training.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [paul_tx] [ In reply to ]
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Right. Duh! Great idea!

Thank you

David
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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I hope I don't regret this but here it goes:
I am one of these slow people out there doing these things. 2 1/2 years ago I decided I needed to make a change in my life and had gastric bypass surgery. In that first year I lost 200 lbs and completed my first century. In August in started thinking I probably could complete a marathon and did the Detroit Marathon. I wasn't fast by any means, I hoped to complete it in under 5 hours and I did so (4:58:xx).
After reading race reports and hearing from people who did triathlons I decided that I really wanted to try them. I had to have some plastic surgery as a result of the weight loss and was not able to start swimming until March. During the summer I completed 6 sprints and 2 HIM, Muskoka being one of those. At Steelhead I was 20/49 in the swim, 15/49 on the bike and 43/49 on the run. I have no problem identifying where I truly, truly suck in these things!
I'll be one of the slower ones next year at CdA, I think 15:xx is doable.
I'll be doing the Detroit Marathon again on October 19 and the NYC on November 1. I wish I'd be faster than I'm going to be, but I'm starting to think 4:40-4:50 is unfortunately where I'll be in Detroit and NYC I'm proudly going to be participating in that one! I plan on bringing a camera and enjoying the entire experience. If I'm feeling incredible that can change but if not that's my plan.
Hopefully when I do the Disney marathon in January I can get my time down to 4:20 or better.
NOW, here's the kickier:
I'm a high school teacher and as a result of people watching my journey and what I'm doing now there are 2 additional teachers running the half in Detroit. One of my students will also be joining me as he completes his first half (in his first year of running) and a second had to back out due to an injury. I have several students starting to talk about wanting to do triathlons next year.
The BEST part of it though is the kids who have always been sedentary are now starting to walk a little more than they used to.
I know I'm putting this out there to a group of people that I just look at with envy at the races I'm at. I wish I had your speed and I'm working to get there. My goal is to be at least MOP if not in the back of the FOP folks next year. If you look at me you wouldn't know what I did to get to that start line or the people who are watching me and saying; 'hey, maybe I can do that too'.

I guess I hope I don't become as cynical as some are on these boards to the people who WON'T be making a podium unless they experience an incredibly weak field
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Or, leave the cops and pay....or do what WTC, NAS and more and more folks are doing - TIME LIMITS. I guess that time limits are elitest too I bet cause they are just their to fulfil a personal life goal. I just dont get it how folks cant seem to take notice that people at the far BOP are getting a much higher ROI on their entry fee and cost a TON more to keep on the course (police, ambulance, voulenteers, electrical, and on and on....all waiting - for folks who could have TRIED to train).

I think that everyone should have to see an IM race at midnight.....12:00:01 am and the lights go OUT, music off, shows over, stick it with a fork cause no matter where you are on the course...they are done.


I have no problems with time limits, cut-offs, etc. I agree that they need to be in place, for the safety of everyone involved. I also think that people who don't take the race seriously and don't train properly shouldn't be out there. Each person needs to take responsibility for him/herself. And sadly, there ARE people who think they are "entitled" to finish a marathon, triathlon, whatever, no matter how it may impact race logistics, etc. I'm not defending the person who isn't prepared to do the race OR doesn't want to accept the consequences of not being prepared.

Regardless, imo, you show a lot of disdain for people who are not fast. Even though I can apparently be "excused" for being slow (I'm in the 45-49 age group), I've never been fast.

And this... Where it becomes laughable is when people will spend the few weeks after their "race" bragging about their BOP finish...then there are folks (many on this forum) who RACE, they put it all out there and RACE...but, you would never ever know it randomly in a coffee shop. I'm not sure we can lay the stereotype of the self-involved triathlete at the door of the BOPer, or at least ONLY at the door of the BOPer.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry but it seems to me that more than half of the folks who are at a mary any more are just fat ass' trying to get a shirt and medal....looking to one day tell a story about the saga and suffering of their 11 minute pace "race".

That's pretty harsh. I know a couple of ladies that run 6-7 hour marathons and I think they suffer more than I do when running. I don't think I could handle being on my feet that long. There are plenty of people who want to check off the event on their life list, but these ladies have trained as hard as anyone I know and have completed probably 10 marathons each.

Ken


"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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I PREFER that the knoingly BOP folks NOT sign up.

....or do what WTC, NAS and more and more folks are doing - TIME LIMITS.

If the BOPs don't show up then I'll be BOP and I don't need that in my life! ;-)

Time Limits are completely reasonable as people know what they'll be before the race starts and before they sign up. I know for Toronto marathons, after 6 hours people who haven't finished are told to get on the sidewalk and obey traffic signals which is reasonable. I don't know when they pull the timing system though.

Ken


"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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At the end of the day...at least those slow people don't look like a massive tool!


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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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My point, ultimately, is that some people do this stuff simply to see if they can. I know that's why I always push distances, to see how far I can go before I "break". Some do that with speed, others do with distance.

We've gone around and around on this more times than I can count on this forum. I've never been able to get anyone to come up with the definitive pace/time that means someone "raced". To me, if you are in pain and have nothing left when it is over, you raced.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [JenHS] [ In reply to ]
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I've never been able to get anyone to come up with the definitive pace/time that means someone "raced". To me, if you are in pain and have nothing left when it is over, you raced.

In my opinion if you aren't within one minute of the last "placing" position you didn't race. In our sprint series that's 5th place but normally I'd say third. However, there is nothing wrong with participating and in a culture of fatties every calorie burned is a good thing.

Ken


"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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100k - now you know that is a whole other ball game, I dont thing most of us - myself included could do 100k at ANY pace :-)

I do however stick to the fact that unless you are PC, have serious medical/weightloss or in a more mature age group....11 minute miles for a person who is 25-40 and in any inkling of a decent shape 11 minute pace is not a "race", it is a "participate" - there is nothing wrong with participating. Where it becomes laughable is when people will spend the few weeks after their "race" bragging about their BOP finish...then there are folks (many on this forum) who RACE, they put it all out there and RACE...but, you would never ever know it randomly in a coffee shop. It is a shame to me that USA has the slowest AVG Marathon and Iron distance times on the planet. If you look at the avg. AG at Roth, WA and other races (I dont know of any international marathons as that is now what I am in to) to name any off hand - but I do know (from reading an article in Running magazine) that the times are getting slower and slower - yet participants expect more and more and more. I could mention the IronMan "mile to mile run course buffet"....but that would make me elitest. ;-)

Sadly I Agree!

Don't get me wrong everyone and add me to the flame pile. I am myself a middle to back of the packer and it doesn't make me feel very good, knowing that I don't put in the effort to be a front of the packer.

When friends or co-workers say "Wow, you did a 1/2 IM", I sheepishly comment that I really just finished it, but didn't really "do it". To me finishing the event and feeling that I should have been a minimum 1 hour faster bothers me inside and I feel that I let myself down.

Sure I lost 30 pounds and finished Calgary 70.3 on basically 3 months training, but it took me 6-1/2 fu#@king hours, which really is lacking IMHO.

Conclusion - don't have any issues with people "just doing it" but definitely feel that if you "just did it", as I did/do, then 0 bragging should be done about it. Hell, even if you're in the top 10%, you shouldn't brag about it.

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"Chrissie wins because she trains really f'ing hard and races really f'ing hard and was blessed with a huge f'ing motor" Jordan Rapp
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [JenHS] [ In reply to ]
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I will reply to you first on my most recent "Flame Chip for saying what many think" thread. You, whom I have read race reports from the past many years are not at all like "them" (when I say them I mean the folks who are in way over their head). There is not a time per-say. More over, there is a mindset. I can not tell you how many people I have seen in the years since I started playing the IM game decide to start to prepare for a "race" - two weeks prior. It even more pisses me off that races sell out at a number (I know what it is but will not post it) - so, there is a mad dash to enter an M-Dot brand race the day or hours after a race to just get in. The fact of the matter is that hundreds of entries are sold but never taken. I myself know folks who have a "goal" and sign up for an Iron race (they have a year to train right?). They never train, never try and dont show up...and thus took a spot from a person who dispite the fact they did not get into a race - DID train and DID prepare and will do other races that are out there - all while wishing they were at the big show that is M-Dot.

Marathon anymore is cliche at best. So someone can walk 26 miles. That in decades past was common place and nothing at all to brag about. I guess getting out of in front of the TV is a good thing....but the biggest joke about Chicago is the fact that folks were bitching about the "heat" as if it was 102+, then bitching about running out of water (they didnt), and bitching about everything - all while they were at less than mile 13 at HOUR 3! Shit, if one is going that slow maybe they should PREPARE and wear a CamelBack.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [redtdi] [ In reply to ]
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Ah, got it. If you aren't fast you don't race. Thanks for clarifying.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [saxman] [ In reply to ]
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You happen to have the proper mindset. Oddly, I really doubt that I would ever hear you in a rant about no water (Chicago never ran out of water), terrible heat (it was in the 70's), mobs to fight for fluids (huh), and lack of support at a race. Like I said, for most folks it is not a "race" - it is a "participate", and that is great. In any sport be it running, Tri, baseball or even darts there are far more folks who "participate" than who are really there to be the best of the best. Personal goals are all that I can most others here can strive for - but when that goal means nothing, being prepared means nothing and making a trivial argument about "what they" (meaning the Chi Mary folks in years past) did wrong to ruin "their" day is bullshit. The first person the folks who were bitching about the temps and support at the Chi Mary looked should have been themselves - for showing up unprepared.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [JenHS] [ In reply to ]
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Ah, got it. If you aren't fast you don't race. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm not trying to be rude but that's MY opinion. Anytime you want to beat a previous PB then you're racing that time, but racing others around you...? I don't think it's a race unless there is something to be gained by placing better than that other competitor. I guess you could be racing your training buddies and to me that is often the most important race! So I guess anyone anywhere can be racing.


"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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What bothers me s when people on here always post their race times with questions.

"Hi, I'm a 4:30ish Half IMer and I'm trying to decide which water bottle cage to get." WTF does your Half IM time have to do with your goddam water bottle cage???

I totally get what you are saying and I don't completely disagree. But, being a participant isn't bad. Yes, there should be a cutoff on some events. But, what that cutoff is can be a raging debate.

I'm completely honest about my race times and always have been. I'm slow, I'm BOP. But, my slow body has accomplished a hell of a lot.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [redtdi] [ In reply to ]
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I have always said - at IronMan there are about five guys "racing"...and they are way way "up there" (pointing forward)....the rest of us are there to participate. Being as I have always been there to participate, I prepare best I can, arrive on time and go out to play. The folks from Chicago in years past pretty much claimed that the RD at Chicago was pretty much out to kill them for being slow. All bullshit. And, no matter what there is no pride at all in a suffer fest. I can not think of one time in my playing the IM game since 1999 that I would ever tell anyone how "horrible" it was...but dont worry, more often than not the folks with these stories will follow up with how they made it past such terrors.


(oh, and had they just been PREPARED - there would be no horror as they would have been ready for what the course had in store for them)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [redtdi] [ In reply to ]
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Ah, got it. If you aren't fast you don't race. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm not trying to be rude but that's MY opinion. Anytime you want to beat a previous PB then you're racing that time, but racing others around you...? I don't think it's a race unless there is something to be gained by placing better than that other competitor. I guess you could be racing your training buddies and to me that is often the most important race! So I guess anyone anywhere can be racing.
Hrm. So I guess the guys finishing 12th in any race in the Olympics aren't really racing, huh? Good to know.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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I have always said - at IronMan there are about five guys "racing"...and they are way way "up there" (pointing forward)....the rest of us are there to participate. Being as I have always been there to participate, I prepare best I can, arrive on time and go out to play. The folks from Chicago in years past pretty much claimed that the RD at Chicago was pretty much out to kill them for being slow. All bullshit. And, no matter what there is no pride at all in a suffer fest. I can not think of one time in my playing the IM game since 1999 that I would ever tell anyone how "horrible" it was...but dont worry, more often than not the folks with these stories will follow up with how they made it past such terrors.


(oh, and had they just been PREPARED - there would be no horror as they would have been ready for what the course had in store for them)
Chip, I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure I saw you sweating like a pig on the sidelines at IMOO while snapping away at "fatties."

Tweet WattsUpKarin Blargh
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [PinkCrush] [ In reply to ]
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I was sweating like a pig! But, I was not suffering....had a few great spots too (like smack in the center of State St.)

What does sweating have to do with it? Oh, and I now regret not shooting a few of that guy in the speedo and wife beater...it was the pimples on his hind side that were just too much to take.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [JenHS] [ In reply to ]
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Sure you wont marry me?

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [redtdi] [ In reply to ]
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I finished my first marathon today, and was thinking about this exact topic on the way home.

I finished in 3:34, 4 minutes off my goal and 19 minutes off a BQ. Not fast, I know, but I'm pretty damn proud to have finished. This time last year I couldn't run a mile and a half, seriously.

Before watching the leaders fly past my on their way back from the 1st turn around, I used to think that anyone qualifying for Boston was pretty quick. Now I know better.

The winner finished in 2:09, and there was a decent crowd in that absurdly fast stratosphere.

One of the first posts on this thread mentioned the 3 hour mark for being fast. Well, I'm a hell of a lot closer to the 3:00 runners than they are to actually being in the race. In fact, the three hour finishers get about as much notice outside their immediate family friends as the 5-6 hour finisher.

So really, unless your within actual striking distance of the leaders, you're not racing the marathon. Doesn't matter if you finish in 2:30 (men), 2:45, 3:00, 3:34, 5:00 or 6:00, we're all the same - racing ourselves and our goals.

Oh, and the course has a 6:30 time limit. I am all for time limits. If one person is out there two hours longer than anyone else then they need to re-set their goals and come back when their ready.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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....but the biggest joke about Chicago is the fact that folks were bitching about the "heat" as if it was 102+, then bitching about running out of water (they didnt), and bitching about everything - all while they were at less than mile 13 at HOUR 3! Shit, if one is going that slow maybe they should PREPARE and wear a CamelBack.

I'm not sure why you brought up Chicago, 2 years ago when it was hot and humid, 82F and high humidity, Chicago did indeed run out of water/gatorade at several water stops. I know many people who confirm that boper's and some late mopers were without fluids. Family, friends, and even the crowd did what they could to help people. People even ran into stores buying their own. I don't think anyone blames Carey for intentionally doing this, it was just poor planning in extreme conditions. If you pay $125 for a race you expect a minimum of water. For me, I was lucky it was about 36f when i ran chicago in 2006.

I don't have a problem with time limits, and people I know who are 6+ hour marathoners don't either, they just need to know the limit when the register. Some races allow them to start unaided an hour early. Keep in mind if you didn't have the BOPer's shelling out $125 for an entry for the big races like Chicago, they would not have the winners getting a big payday. So if you chase slow people away from th e race, remember that you are throwing out entry fees too. Sure there is a break even point somewhere, but with the tri's and marathons I've helped with there are usually only a few paid staff, medic, and police. Volunteers line up to be involved in good events like the chicago marathon and you don't have to pay them. Though I think my local tri race directors do give donations to boy scouts, track teams and other groups who volunteer. If they are there an extra 30 minutes, you aren't going to pay them any more.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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Hrm. So I guess the guys finishing 12th in any race in the Olympics aren't really racing, huh? Good to know.

Let's not include any professional competitions or world championships. However, I do feel depending on the event that there are TONS of athletes in the Olympics who aren't in the race and know it, but are likely going as hard as they can.


"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman
Last edited by: redtdi: Sep 27, 09 17:43
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [patf] [ In reply to ]
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First - no Chicago DID NOT run out of water, nor sport drink...they didnt, that is just a fact.

And yes, RD's do give donations to boy scouts and the like. The police, ambulance and permits all cost money and are a loss at a point.

82 is still not that hot. Extreme - freaking please. I suppose that if I was 250lbs and out of shape it would have been extreme - short of that...folks were just plain unprepared.

Entry fee's also do not pay out prize money - sponsors do. If an RD depends on race fee's for prize money that is just a huge gamble.

As for chasing away folks who will do a 6+ marathon as compared to their entry fee opposed to the costs of keeping roads closed and police on the course....I would make the cut off 5hrs MAX if I was a marathon RD. It does not require much effort to WALK 26 miles in 5 hours - not even with a back pack, food, tent, sleeping bag and extra clothing. Now, if I was to pitch a tent and take a nap.....I can see 6+ at an open Marathon. Now, ride your bike some 112 mile first, and have your son in a push cart...I can see it.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Dufflite] [ In reply to ]
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I think lots of the 3 hour guys are probably placing quite high at Scotibank in their age group (which is the level of "racing" I've been talking about). I think in some smaller marathons like the Toronto marathon in 3 weeks, 3 hours probably is a GREAT age group finish and possible top three. I checked 3:00:00 would have been third in 30-34 at Toronto last year.

Ken


"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [swimfan] [ In reply to ]
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I just hope the temps are not over say 72.5F as it will be SO SO SO hot so that the folks who cant run a half in under three hours will almost die...then again, if it is under 68F then the hypothermia will set in rapidly.

Sorry but it seems to me that more than half of the folks who are at a mary any more are just fat ass' trying to get a shirt and medal....looking to one day tell a story about the saga and suffering of their 11 minute pace "race".
Life comes full circle. Classic!
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Did you forget to take your medication again?

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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First - no Chicago DID NOT run out of water, nor sport drink...they didnt, that is just a fact. Were you there at every aid station handing it out? I'll believe people I know who were there and went without for multiple aid stations.


82 is still not that hot. Extreme - freaking please. I suppose that if I was 250lbs and out of shape it would have been extreme - short of that...folks were just plain unprepared. Have you run a marathon in heat? Most marathoners like 5o's cloudy with a bit of drizzle. Great marathon weather is bad spectator weather. 82 and humid wasn't even that fun for the spectators.

Entry fee's also do not pay out prize money - sponsors do. If an RD depends on race fee's for prize money that is just a huge gamble. In the major marathons they know they will sell out months in advance, kind of like im. 45,000 x $125 = 6.6 million in Chicago entry fees. the back third, 1.87 million, more than the purse. Do you really think it costs them $125/person? Back when I startred marthons in '82 you were luckiy to get a few hundred runners. There was no prize money of any value until the masses started doing marthons. Chase them away and you hurt the sport. I don't think the real foper's would like that.
As for walking 26.2 miles in 5 hours, I doubt many runners could do it unless they sent time preparing for it. Yes race walkers can walk a marathon in a little over 3 hours, but I think most runners would have trouble. I'd much rather run 26.2 miles than walk it.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [patf] [ In reply to ]
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They did NOT run out of water...there was a WAIT at some stations, granted. But, oddly most of the folks who were bitching were at not even the half way point at 3 hours, a full hour after the "race" was over. Again (being as water was coming from the public water lines and from fire hydrants) they DID NOT run out of water.

The way I see it, Boston has it easy - they at least know the folks showing up have a reason to be there.


As for your math...if only it was that easy. You have any clue what it costs to close a road and hire cops? Entry fee's are not even a shadow in the dawn compared to real costs (here, an hour from Chicago it is $120 an hour, per cop - take that times a few hundred cops at Chicago rates. Add to that EMS, and on and on). Pretty much you dont have a clue (and have no reason to as you are not an RD).

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [redtdi] [ In reply to ]
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I think lots of the 3 hour guys are probably placing quite high at Scotibank in their age group (which is the level of "racing" I've been talking about). I think in some smaller marathons like the Toronto marathon in 3 weeks, 3 hours probably is a GREAT age group finish and possible top three. I checked 3:00:00 would have been third in 30-34 at Toronto last year.

Ken

I should have used some pink in the font, 3:00 is pretty damn fast.

But, the point I was trying to make was that no matter how fast you are, it is always relative to the competition you are being compared to. So, outside of the elite it is impossible to draw a line and say one side is fast and one side isn't. And, if you can't find a place to draw an absolute line, you can slide the relative line from 10:00 behind the winner all the way to the final stragglers.

This applies to all sports really. Take any men's league. I used to play beer league hockey that had divisions A through D. The A division is made up of top notch guys, many of whom came pretty close to the pros. The D division is pretty much beginners who didn't take the game up until later in life. But, they all compete hard, play to win, and are stuck with ice time at 11:30 pm on a Tuesday night because all of them, A through D, are guys who will never make it to the top but still love to play. Is there that much difference between them?
Last edited by: Dufflite: Sep 27, 09 18:36
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Dufflite] [ In reply to ]
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But, in running and Tri - they are on the same ice at the same time....that is what makes things a bit more fuzzy here.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [redtdi] [ In reply to ]
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Hrm. So I guess the guys finishing 12th in any race in the Olympics aren't really racing, huh? Good to know.

Let's not include any professional competitions or world championships. However, I do feel depending on the event that there are TONS of athletes in the Olympics who aren't in the race and know it, but are likely going as hard as they can.

Brilliant. So if I show up at a race and the fast people are not there and I win then I am racing but if I go back the next year, go a few minutes faster but a bunch of fast guys show up I finish 10th I am merely participating?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Chip, I ran that race. It was HOT! The Farmer's almanac reported 88 degrees max temp at Midway airport and I remember it was extremely humid (mean dew point was 62.5). That's pretty hot for any marathon in my book. It was probably hotter downtown with all the glass, buildings, etc..

http://www.almanac.com/...L/Chicago/2007-10-08

All the complaining, I agree there was water and lots of folks going really slow but I ran that race and the RD was not prepared for that heat. What baffled me was they sent out alerts all week warning about the heat and to be sure to take in plenty of liquids, then they didn't have enough gatorade. IM races are much better organized.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [saxman] [ In reply to ]
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good on ya. Not just for the heroic job of being a teacher, but for leading by example and actually inspiring others around you.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Very fuzzy.

At least fast runners don't have to be stuck in a late wave and worry about working their way through traffic, they can be at the other end of the ice so to speak.

I do understand where you are comming from I think. But I also think everyone has their own set of reasons for running and their results have to be taken into context with those reasons. Sometimes walking a six hour marathon is quite an accomplishment.

I guess I just haven't really run into people boasting about some pretty mediocre accomplishments. At least not in my new adult running life.

In Reply To:
But, in running and Tri - they are on the same ice at the same time....that is what makes things a bit more fuzzy here.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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If things don't work out with my husband I'll let you know. :-)

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Dufflite] [ In reply to ]
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Awwww hell...here in Rockford you will have no problem at all finding folks who could have easily survived Satan himself...yet, just by will alone made it to the finish line of that there marathon.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Chris G] [ In reply to ]
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Brilliant. So if I show up at a race and the fast people are not there and I win then I am racing but if I go back the next year, go a few minutes faster but a bunch of fast guys show up I finish 10th I am merely participating?

If you know in advance that there are nine people faster than you and there is nothing you can do about it, i.e. they're MUCH faster than you, then enjoy the day and try and set a new PB, 'cause you're just racing yourself. If you want to feel like your racing when you finish 85th out of 210 in Ironman then go ahead but I don't think you are. The only time I've ever felt like I was racing was when I was 3rd and first in my AG 'cause I was scanning calfs as I passed or was passed and was pushed to go a little faster as a result. I'm just one guy though and feel free to be "racing" when you finish tenth if it makes you feel better. I just finished 10th at the Muskoka 70.3 and I wasn't racing anything but the clock trying to break 5 hours.

Ken


"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [redtdi] [ In reply to ]
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Well, if you are chasing people down so you place higher, isn't that racing regardless of what that placement is?

If someone is DFL but they see the second to DFL in front of them, chase them down and pass, does that mean there wasn't a race?

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [JenHS] [ In reply to ]
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Well, if you are chasing people down so you place higher, isn't that racing regardless of what that placement is?

If someone is DFL but they see the second to DFL in front of them, chase them down and pass, does that mean there wasn't a race?

As I've stated many times in this thread, this is all just my opinion. If you want you can "race" at any point for any place to satisfy your competitive needs, but for me I'll stick by my original statements. I know many BOP runners and triathletes and none of them seem to give a crap about where they place except for completing the course and possibly getting a better time than last year. Look at the people on ST their race is normally who has the fastest bike split, then they go for a cool down jog.

Again just my opinion and you are all free to disagree and define the race anyway you want.

Ken


"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [JenHS] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
"Hi, I'm a 4:30ish Half IMer and I'm trying to decide which water bottle cage to get." WTF does your Half IM time have to do with your goddam water bottle cage???

I completely understand why someone would put in their time.

For me my IM bike is slow, because I don't bike enough(or the right way) not because I am not 100% aero. If you are splitting hairs and single-digit minutes matter than spend the $$$, but for me who has 45 minutes to take off my bike more aero isn't the solution.

Swim - Bike - Run the rest is just clothing changes.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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It is confusing you know, it seems for some reason you are always in good standing here in the forum because no matter what you say and under what circumstance you say it you are still allowed to participate in this community freely while others who make jokes about Paulo, Kona or other inside jokes are punished swiftly. If they are in six different kinds pain, crying themselves to sleep I wonder what your pain threshold is. You seem to need more than a pep talk too.

I am not attacking you personally since everyone has their opinion on this matter of large "racers" and it seems there are a lot of people that migh agree with you, maybe some not as vocal, just wondering...

______________________________________
"Bros b4 Hos, man" House MD

Team Aquaphor 06-08
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [redtdi] [ In reply to ]
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How can you still run 6-7 hours after 10 marathons unless you are like 60+? and most important why?

If they did the first one as a bucket list type thing in 6+ hours fine but how dont you get serious about it after 10,unless they have some physical dissability in which case what I said will not apply.

Peace

______________________________________
"Bros b4 Hos, man" House MD

Team Aquaphor 06-08
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [patf] [ In reply to ]
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First - no Chicago DID NOT run out of water, nor sport drink...they didnt, that is just a fact. Were you there at every aid station handing it out? I'll believe people I know who were there and went without for multiple aid stations.


82 is still not that hot. Extreme - freaking please. I suppose that if I was 250lbs and out of shape it would have been extreme - short of that...folks were just plain unprepared. Have you run a marathon in heat? Most marathoners like 5o's cloudy with a bit of drizzle. Great marathon weather is bad spectator weather. 82 and humid wasn't even that fun for the spectators.

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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [JenHS] [ In reply to ]
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Well, if you are chasing people down so you place higher, isn't that racing regardless of what that placement is?

If someone is DFL but they see the second to DFL in front of them, chase them down and pass, does that mean there wasn't a race?
Not to the elitists at the front. I guess if you aren't finishing in the top 20 and vying for a podium spot in your AG, then you might as well stay home and do a triathlon around your block.

And yeah, in the Olympics there are people there that don't "belong" and aren't going to be competitive for medals, but you know what? They still qualified in their country and established the minimum 'A' time/distance/score/etc. Why wouldn't you count them?

To say that just because you didn't place in your AG, and maybe didn't even have a chance to, you weren't really "racing" just out there participating is condescending and belittling.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [tyran40] [ In reply to ]
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"First - no Chicago DID NOT run out of water, nor sport drink...they didnt, that is just a fact"

"82 is still not that hot. Extreme - freaking please. I suppose that if I was 250lbs and out of shape it would have been extreme - short of that...folks were just plain unprepared"


Sorry for some reason - my comments didn't post the first time. Chicago did run out of water - I had friends who volunteered at the first couple of aid stations and they confirmed this. I volunteered in Little Italy around mile 16ish. We ran out of water before the 4:00 pace. We ran out of gatorade/water and even cups. We were filling our empty water jugs at a local bar, a nice man's bathtub in his house, and from garden hoses. Every volunteer was just trying to find water somewhere because it was hot and people (even in shape people were failing). Chicago ran out of water at multiple stations, period.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [linhardt] [ In reply to ]
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I understand when time is appropriate but for crying out loud, have you seen how ridiculous it can get over here? Cracks me up.

Anyhoo, what a race is is a matter of opinion. I'm just poking around to see where the edges of that opinion are and looking at why someone who doesn't finish in the top 5 of a race isn't considered "racing". I just disagree. I also know there are people who are only there for the metal and bragging rights around the water cooler and they aren't the ones I'm defending, just talking about the others, like myself, who aren't fast but chase down as many people in front of them as they can.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [idlersrest] [ In reply to ]
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classic.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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I have always said - at IronMan there are about five guys "racing"...and they are way way "up there" (pointing forward)....the rest of us are there to participate. Being as I have always been there to participate, I prepare best I can, arrive on time and go out to play. The folks from Chicago in years past pretty much claimed that the RD at Chicago was pretty much out to kill them for being slow. All bullshit. And, no matter what there is no pride at all in a suffer fest. I can not think of one time in my playing the IM game since 1999 that I would ever tell anyone how "horrible" it was...but dont worry, more often than not the folks with these stories will follow up with how they made it past such terrors.


(oh, and had they just been PREPARED - there would be no horror as they would have been ready for what the course had in store for them)

Rockman just lost my business.

I am a 6:08 PR marathoner, due to severe knee degeneration, bilaterally, not due to lack of training or preparation.

I can tell you that there wasn't any water anywhere at any of the aid stations when I came through @ the Chicago Marathon in 2007. I was completely prepared for the race, and for the heat. I had my own fuel belt full of my own nutrition... but it was so hot that day, there was not a sip of plain water to be had. One aid station actually had gallons of water delivered by... someone... and volunteers were opening up the jugs and pouring them into cups that people were picking up off the ground. No joke.

Do I blame the race? Not really. They were prepared as they had been in the past. The faster runners took 6-7-8 cups of water, to drink, to pour on themselves, to splash in their armpits, Godknowwhatall, and left literally nothing for those of us in the back. I don't blame them, either, though. It was hot. If you think it was 70 degrees, you're nuts. It was 85+ and humid and Chicago smelled like steamy hot garbage that day.

I know I'm not fast. I don't care if you approve or not. I just wanted to let you know your condescending and elitist attitude sucks...and your facts are wrong. Especially since you are an area RD. The next time I clean my bathroom, I'm going to use my Rockman race T-shirt.
Last edited by: Whizzzzz: Sep 28, 09 14:39
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Whizzzzz] [ In reply to ]
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So you are PC...as stated in a prior post. The best someone can do WHEN THEY PREPARE is one thing. I was there that day - most of the folks who were there complaining about water were just plain not prepared. But, no one can see a thought for what it is nor admit that these people for the most part are not prepared. If you look back you will see that I said folks 25-45 or something like that UNLESS THEY ARE PC....

(PC means physical challanged - and they get all of the credit in the world from all of us. They are doing their best, not the least possible)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Whizzzzz] [ In reply to ]
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This post is pretty amusing. I do agree to some extent with the 'elitists' about the competition and bucket list stuff, yet I feel this country has gotten so pathetic I can't fault someone for trying to change thier lives and participating in something active. Never before would I think we would live in a land were the fit and athletic were treated as freaks and being overweight and out of shape was considered the socially acceptable norm.

My wife was 2nd to last at a 5k. She was walking, and there was a group of people at the tail end, an old nun, and lady with a cane. They both wanted to chat but she would have none of it and busted out a 56:00ish 5k, beating out the lady with a cane. I was pretty proud of her and wish she'd do more, but its like pulling teeth. I also can't verify the time as they took down the timer so its not accurate but she did finish second to last. I've tried to get her to take it seriously but she cares more about getting her nails done and the sales at Macy's.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Record10, I'm really glad you PREFER that the BOPers not sign up. In fact, I hope you feel that way about the MOPers too, because this MOPer - and I was literally the middle person in my AG at IMOO this year - won't be at Rockman, or any other race you are associated with.

I'm not sure who you think you are dictating whether other people on this forum have the "proper mindset". Thank goodness we have you here to make sure we're all thinking correctly.

I wouldn't give you the time of day, much less my money.

Incidentally, I have nothing against time limits. They are certainly required first and foremost for safety, but also for logistics and sound business reasons. I do object to people who think they are worthy of judging another person without even thinking about walking, running, or biking in thier shoes.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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So you are PC...as stated in a prior post. The best someone can do WHEN THEY PREPARE is one thing. I was there that day - most of the folks who were there complaining about water were just plain not prepared. But, no one can see a thought for what it is nor admit that these people for the most part are not prepared. If you look back you will see that I said folks 25-45 or something like that UNLESS THEY ARE PC....

(PC means physical challanged - and they get all of the credit in the world from all of us. They are doing their best, not the least possible)
I don't know how you can differentiate between myself (PC, let's say) and someone who is undertrained, overweight, or bucket listing. We're all in the back of the race together, slogging along, sucking up your resources and clogging up your race course...

My suggestion is that you institute a cut off. You're the RD, make it whatever number you want. 6:00, 6:15... sooner, even. That solves all your problems. Keeps your resources free, and will keep the slow people and first timers and whatnot... at home. Never fear, there are plenty other events that will take their money. Not the best way to build a reputation as a great, friendly, hometown race... but from the rhetoric you're blasting out on the internet... that doesn't seem to be your main concern.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [CindyK] [ In reply to ]
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So lets get this straight - you DO think time limits are okay....but then you also feel folks should go their own pace? What one is it (you cant have both). As for proper mindset - when fat ass lazy sloths decide to start training two or three weeks before a marathon and show up, then bitch non stop about not having a personal guide to provide them everything at a seconds notice...suddenly we have an issue. One does not need to look to hard at US races to see folks that are in so terribly far over their heads that it is both dangerous and a terrible show of what the US has become "good enough". Really, why train for an IM? You have 17 hours right? When you go to an IM race and watch the finish line at 11pm and later - you ever wonder what the hell it is that a person who is 32 years old and seemingly fit was doing all day? They cant even maintain a walking pace on the "run" but can pull off a backflip hand spring? (yes, that was this past Moo.)

Now, in this year of tragic deaths at races (mostly in Wi) and when we look at the freaky high DNF rates, rampant cheating, drafting, and then constant bitching about what was not there....where is the sport of Tri going? I would bet in the direction of Marathon....slower and slower and slower. Sure, the top folks will stay right where they are but the bell curve of the Avg. time is getting a very fat belly.

Now, as for the BOP folks it is just a FACT that it is very costly to keep the services out there for the trailing edge of a race. It is awesome to read race reports about folks who complain the aid stations were gone and the water was warm...things like this can happen when you have a 70 min swim, 12mph bike and shuffle an entire run. This is the same that happened at Chicago, only in mass. People (and LOTS of them) were not even to the half way point at hour three....so, we now know that first off they are not going to make the 6 hour limit, and second even if the course does close at hour six - the RD still has liability for what happens as part of the race. Do we now send out bus and pick folks up once we know they can not possibly make a time cut off - or is that just hope they dont sign up?

I for one am at least honest enough to say what I have heard many many other RD's say in my 20+ years of racing bikes, Tri, running and on and on and on. A local 10k had a police charge go about $700 over their budget...paying police over time waiting for a person to walk, feed ducks, hang out, send text messages and just plain lolly gag....this is not a far cry from some of the folks I have seen at Marathons who want to just go out and walk with their buddies and chat it up during a race (oddly, often wearing purple). So, is it mean to say the woman who fed ducks during a 10k should not have been there? Is that mean?

And for "walking in their shoes"...I love that at IM. Finishing an IM has not made one persons life in any place or way better the following morning. It is a nice life goal, but as we have seen - this is something that any average Joe can do. Walk in their shoes? Oh, what passion - for something they signed up and paid for. Seemingly they knew what they were in for (but for the guy this year at IMoo who quit on the bike course and threw his helmet yelling at a support helper "this is bullshit, this is all bullshit and they didnt say it was like this" - he oddly was on a VERY high end bike and no less than 40lbs over weight. He made it to the first loop to Sauk Pass....to the bottom where he DNF'ed). If someone wants me to feel for them cause I have never walked in their shoes...they had better be trying to feed their kids by doing something miserable, paying for a race and showing up just does not cut it for me as being some noble thing. (again, we leave otu the PC folks, folks who got a new heart and are there to prove they can - I think this is where you need to draw a line as to what my point is).

So what it is...time limits or not?

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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I think that some sort of time limit needs to exist, but I also think that it would be very difficult to set a limit that will accomodate all of the age groups racing fairly. If I look at some of the 70.3 results for IM branded races, winning AG times can be 6:00:00 plus, and these folks are definitely racing, and racing hard.

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We have enough youth, how about a fountain of smart!?!
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Mr_Pink] [ In reply to ]
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I think that some sort of time limit needs to exist, but I also think that it would be very difficult to set a limit that will accomodate all of the age groups racing fairly. If I look at some of the 70.3 results for IM branded races, winning AG times can be 6:00:00 plus, and these folks are definitely racing, and racing hard.
That's the rub. If you have a time limit to accommodate the older racers that are going flat out to get that 6-7 hours, then how do you enforce it for the 300 lb schlub in the 20-24 AG that just flat out sucks because he didn't train?

While I may not agree with some of Chips rhetoric, I can see some of his points.

I really do think that HIM, IM events need qualifiers. You have to finish an Olympic in a certain time to be able to sign up for HIM and IM events. I am of the opinion it would help with the safety, crowding of the courses, etc. and go a long way to making this sport fun for more people. Yeah, you're gonna lose some bucketlisters out there for bragging rights at the office watercooler, but is that really such a bad thing?

At one of my early sprints (Sprint, not Oly, HIM or other, a f'n sprint), there were people abandoning the swim within 100m because they couldn't swim with their crutch (errr...wetsuit). I know one of them was using it as a "get used to it" race before she participated in IMAz this year.

Now, I'm sure all the bucket listers will jump in and tell me she has all summer to train, etc etc, and that may be true. But if you can't complete a 400m swim in an oversized bathtub without bailing out, maybe you should rethink that IM plan just a bit.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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I am of the opinion it would help with the safety, crowding of the courses, etc. and go a long way to making this sport fun for more people. Yeah, you're gonna lose some bucketlisters out there for bragging rights at the office watercooler, but is that really such a bad thing?

At one of my early sprints (Sprint, not Oly, HIM or other, a f'n sprint), there were people abandoning the swim within 100m because they couldn't swim with their crutch (errr...wetsuit). I know one of them was using it as a "get used to it" race before she participated in IMAz this year.

Now, I'm sure all the bucket listers will jump in and tell me she has all summer to train, etc etc, and that may be true. But if you can't complete a 400m swim in an oversized bathtub without bailing out, maybe you should rethink that IM plan just a bit.

John[/reply]
Safety has nothing to do with speed, but a lot to do with experience. So requiring exerience may make sense, i.e. no IM in year one of your tri training. You have to do a HIM or two first for instance before register for IM. From what i've seen with Marathon deaths and discussion of who had the most problems in the 2007 Chicago Marathon, it was not the slow runners. I have not heard of any slow runners dying of a Heart attack. Most have been experience runners who just had an unknown problem. And we had a lengthy discussion about Chicago 07 on Hal Higdons site, The people ending up in the hospitals in Chicago 2007 were more likely to be the middle of the packers who didn't want to give up on their PR dreams. Slow people knew to take easy from the start or quit. That was not scientific study, just observations.

How do slow people mess up your race if you are so fast? Granted, Tri's are difficult becuase a fast swimmer could be a slow biker, but if they understand the rules/ettiquette, you shouldn't be bothered by passing them. Most slow people are going to stay on the outside in the swim and on the right on the bike. You'll soon fly by us and never see us again.

If you want million dollar paydays like the Marathon Majors, you have to encourage more people to participate so that advertisers take notice and the big bucks become available through sponsors and entry fees. Even Boston understands this, otherwise they would have kept their 2:50 standard and have far less participants.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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So lets get this straight - you DO think time limits are okay....but then you also feel folks should go their own pace? What one is it (you cant have both). It seems that you're the one who wants to have both. You want the money BOPers bring in, and you want to whine about them on this forum. Put up or shut up. Put up whatever time limits you'd like on your race, and give up the income from BOPers who'll go somewhere else. If you're sure that the lost registrations will be offset by decreased overhead then you have nothing to lose anyway, right?
So what it is...time limits or not? Damn good question, "rd".
Last edited by: CindyK: Sep 29, 09 21:20
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [CindyK] [ In reply to ]
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My races, and Iron races have always had time limits. Money...most RD's (myelf included) dont make money - the events are to benifit charities.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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My races, and Iron races have always had time limits. Money...most RD's (myelf included) dont make money - the events are to benifit charities.
The Tris and many running races in my area (philly,NJ, Del, MD) are owned by the RD and make him/her money. Granted it is a second job so they are not getting rich doing this, but it is a business. Even the ones done for charity make money, as the charity pays for the rd. The local bike, running, and mtb club all have races for charities, but those are a minority of the local racing. Successful RD's are generally very friendly and make people feel like they are appreciated for attending their race. I know they would not come on a forum and ridicule customers and potential customers. I've actually had discussions about stragglers with them when I was racing injured and they were glad to have me and said not to worry about. they might be tearing things down when I came in, but not to worry. But if you want to laugh at the slow people then that's your choice as it is anyone's choice to skip your races.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [patf] [ In reply to ]
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they might be tearing things down when I came in, but not to worry

Ahhhh...that is you. Most folks get quite irate when they see aid stations being torn down. They expect voulenteers to be waiting at every aid station for them (as they cross mile six on the run at hour six). Police want to leave and services are shut down.

You need to be sure you read what I posted. I have no beef wtih BOP folks, it is the WAY WAY BOP folks who never had any cause to enter an event in the first place. In any other business model these folks would not be so rude to the "business". So, with this time limit thing...when folks who are in way over their heads and this is a known at the onset of a Mary - do we pull them from the course? It would be pretty clear by mile 6 some folks could not possibly finish within the given time period. So...then what? They should not sign up for a race that they can not finish in the allowed time. Sorta like the fact that I should not be in the 95-100mph batting cages at the miniput place - if I was, I would just plain be in over my head. Oddly, folks here just cant seem to get the comparisons, nor the fact that too many folks do not take personal responcibility for what they get themselves into.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Kinda funny to see you getting flamed for being a prick of an RD

And to think i was gonna come and do Rockman, stay in your house and borrow your bike...glad I now see that you hate slow people so I can stay away ;-)

Seriously, is anyone really arguing that the time limits for IM and HIM's are too short? 17 hours is plenty long to suffer. If you can't get it done by then maybe a different goal is in order. As for a marathon, there are plenty of walking events that are 26.2 distance. The breast cancer stuff comes to mind. They are set up for walkers. My mom and her friends did the one in NC a few years after she had brain surgery and could not run anymore. They had tents to stop and have lunch, entertainment etc. If you are going to take 6 hours or so to cover 26.2 I think that would be a better venue than NYC or Chicago or somewhere else, No? Really at 6 hours it is more hiking/treking than racing, why not go somewhere scenic? I have done Chicago, it is not a very scenic marathon.

FWIW when I see bigger/older folks out on the course grinding it out long after most people are done I fully recognize how painful it must be for them and that it is likely a harder effort than what I did.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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I for one am not upset by your wanting time limits. Current timelimits are reasonable. Others may disagree I don't think many people commented about your desire for timelimits. It is your disdain for slow people. Here are some quotes from your posts....

...more than half of the folks who are at a mary any more are just fat ass' trying to get a shirt and medal....looking to one day tell a story about the saga and suffering of their 11 minute pace "race".

...Where it becomes laughable is when people will spend the few weeks after their "race" bragging about their BOP finish...

And as for my race - I PREFER that the knoingly BOP folks NOT sign up.

Oh, and I now regret not shooting a few of that guy in the speedo and wife beater...it was the pimples on his hind side that were just too much to take.

You impune the motives of half the marathoners, make fun of slow and fat people, want to take pictures of people so you can further enjoy your poking fun at people.

If you really think what you have written, you owe it to yourself and your race to post your comments on your race website. That would help make sure only the proper racers/participants (per your definition) sign up for your race.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Wow...to be blunt, you're a douche. Would you mind posting which races you're associated with so we can stay the hell away from them.

Thanks! That would be greatly appreciated.

Todd - "fat ass" from San Diego
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [patf] [ In reply to ]
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Can you tell me what one of your quotes - taken out of context, even out of context is not correct? You just dont seem to like the truth of the current situation now do you?

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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The only issue I have is when slow runners/ walkers put themselves at the start line of a crowded race, and then the fast runners have to spend the first kilometre of the race dodging them.

If you're slow, be courteous and start in a pace-appropriate part of the pack.

How an event markets itself, sets cutoff times, and makes decisions about how long to pay police etc - those are business issues.

If Record10Carbon wants his events to be fast and cut off the slowpokes, that's cool. Just be sure to market it and explain it properly so that people know beforehand.

Graham

Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [rhet0ric] [ In reply to ]
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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, then bitching about running out of water (they didnt .

Just to set the Record10 straight, if you were referring to the 2007 Chicago Marathon which they had to cancel before it was over, I was handing out water on Taylor Street at the 16-mile mark and we totally ran out of water at around 11 am.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [tyran40] [ In reply to ]
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"First - no Chicago DID NOT run out of water, nor sport drink...they didnt, that is just a fact"

"82 is still not that hot. Extreme - freaking please. I suppose that if I was 250lbs and out of shape it would have been extreme - short of that...folks were just plain unprepared"


Sorry for some reason - my comments didn't post the first time. Chicago did run out of water - I had friends who volunteered at the first couple of aid stations and they confirmed this. I volunteered in Little Italy around mile 16ish. We ran out of water before the 4:00 pace. We ran out of gatorade/water and even cups. We were filling our empty water jugs at a local bar, a nice man's bathtub in his house, and from garden hoses. Every volunteer was just trying to find water somewhere because it was hot and people (even in shape people were failing). Chicago ran out of water at multiple stations, period.

My wife and I were also handing out water in Little Italy around mile 16ish that day. We were at the last table. As I recall we ran out of water about 11 am. It was sad. There was nothing we could do so we just left.

I think the water problem was caused by so many runners walking though the water stop with just about everyone pouring a cup of water over their head every table or two. You would expect 2-3 cups of water per person at that aid station, not 6-8.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [MPB1950] [ In reply to ]
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I know I know, and I posted a retraction I was wrong thread...

The person I spoke to with the event said that they had never run out and had extra.....in a truck. It needed to be on the course not in a truck, so he (I) was right - but you are ritious for being out there ;-)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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and a view from the BOP
http://www.chicagonow.com/...ing-with-lauren.html
sorry if this has been posted already

how much training does one put in to cover a marathon course in 6:44
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [wrodon] [ In reply to ]
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I do not know how much training is needed to completed a marathon in 6:44 and I do not care how fast or slow you are as long as you are out there doing what you can to the best of your abilities.
But one think I do not understand is why "slow" runners need a Garmin for?
Fred.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [wrodon] [ In reply to ]
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how much training does one put in to cover a marathon course in 6:44

Obviously not enough. She further undermined her chances of a good race by running the first hour a couple of MPM too fast.
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [fred_h] [ In reply to ]
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Well the cool thing about Garmins is you can see where in space the satellite you are using is located, and gauge your time. So while you are running your marathon and you look down to see the little satellite in a differe spot, you can say ok so i have been at this marathon for roughly 12 hours, but i better hold back so I dont blow up at mile 10.
In Reply To:
I do not know how much training is needed to completed a marathon in 6:44 and I do not care how fast or slow you are as long as you are out there doing what you can to the best of your abilities.
But one think I do not understand is why "slow" runners need a Garmin for?
Fred.


Jonathan
USA Triathlon Coach/Adventure Extraordinaire
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Re: WANTED- A slow marathon runner is Chicago. [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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If someone can't run a half marathon in three hours, they have no business being out there. Why don't we simply install an escalator on Mt. Everest so everyone has a chance to reach the summit?
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