I'm 39 with no kids. There was only one 6 month period in my life, in my early 20s, when I wanted a baby but it had more to do with trying to save a relationship than any real desire to have kids. I hated babysitting as a teenager and have a hard time getting excited about anybody's babies except my brother's.

If you don't feel a strong instinct to have kids then don't. I think there is a huge pressure for women to have children as a way of defining themselves but not everyone should be or needs to be a mom. Only women who really want kids, who love the idea of being a mom, should have them. The moms I know who really wanted kids are the best ones I know. Some of them came to that conclusion in their 20s but most always knew. I always knew I didn't want them and my other kidless friends who are my age feel the same.

If you don't want kids, it is OK to not have kids and don't let any female relative tell you that decision is "selfish". Drives me nuts.

My opinion isn't always popular on this topic but there it is. I have no regrets at all. I have a niece and nephew that I can buy cute stuff for and watch grow up and for me, that is perfect.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

I'm 35, almost 36 and I don't think I want kids. I used to know I didn't want kids, and I'm still 99% sure I don't want kids, I think I'm too selfish with enjoying my life the way it is to have kids. Now I won't rule out what might happen if I meet a great guy who I think would make a wonderful stay at home father (and that is what he wanted to do), and he and I thought we could survive on my income alone. I love my nephews, but even being around them makes me realize how that is not a life I really want.

Wow, jenhs, we are one in the same. I wanted kids briefly in my mid-20's then it went away. I too am 39 and have zero desire to be a mom. Luckily my friends and family have never pressured me.

Here's the funny thing though. I would glady be a surrogate. Call me crazy but I'd like to experience pregnancy, I'd just want someone to take the baby once it's hatched. :-)

I'm 41, no kids, I never felt the draw to have any. I have lots of nieces and nephews that I borrow when I feel like I want to do some fun things that they will enjoy (ie, like take them camping).

What Jenhs said :)

Hubby and I took 11 & 9 y/o niece and nephew to D.C. for along weekend. I'm 45. We both came home thinking why do folks have kids? no, really? I know I'll get flack for this position but I think most people have kids to somehow enhance their lives or have mini me's. I meant to add, the folks who set out to have kids, no the "oops I'm pregnant variety" The commitment is HUGE, both psychologically and financially. There's no guarantee you kid won't end up an ungrateful piece of shite as an adult, really, you cannot guarantee that.

I always laff at the folks who say to us "But who's gonna take care of you when you're old?" I mean, really, can you believe that people actually believe that, that if they have kids, that somehow those kids will have an obligation to care for them in their old age?

That said, when we got home, I came away with HUGE ADMIRATION for all you gals here that have kids and train! Egads, how you juggle it all, I cannot fathom. Kudos to you!!!

You and I may be twins....

I'm 20. I can't imagine being pregnant - now or ever. I feel like if I don't have kids, I will be missing out on "something" and I'm also curious what "baby tigerchik" would be like, LOL (hopefully every bit as unusual as I am). But I can't imagine being responsible for someone else 24-7, having to "give up" a lot of MY TIME to take care of someone else. Then there's the whole idea of being fat for 9 months (don't start with the "it's just baby weight" because I can't separate the two... I like my stomach nice and flat thankyouverymuch).

I kinda feel like I am far too wrapped up in me and my interests to be a good mom. I don't think I'd be neglectful, but I resent things that interfere with what I want to do and I think kids that would take so much of my attention... I would resent them for that.

Maybe something will click one day and I will love and adore some tigerchicklets :)

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
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We need more people like you, who don't feel the need to bred for babies. There is a serious over population problem and will only get worse. There is only so much space and a limited resources to go around. It sounds like you have a very rich life without kids. I take my hat off to you for not contributing to the over population problem.

Many have already answered they never wanted kids - which is fine. To your question - at your age it was not even a thought.
I was in my mid to late 20s before ANY thought of kids entered my mind. While many things changed after having kids (at 33 and 35) they are the light of my life and were worth EVERYTHING. They are the reason my marriage was not a waste.

Wanting or not wanting kids is normal. Both sides.

Kids ARE a huge commitment and I wish people needed a license to breed!

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cat
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I think most people have kids to somehow enhance their lives or have mini me's.

I highly doubt that is the motivation for "most" parents. Being a good parent requires quite a bit of selflessness. That is the exact opposite of your hypothesis. Its fine to "not get it", but I don't think its fair to put that judgment on those of us that do.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

I couldn't imagine life without my kids (18 & 23), but the only reason to have kids is because you want them. Too many unwanted babies are born as it is.

I've tended to believe that at least some women who claim not wanting to have kids secretely wish things had worked out differently for them relationship wise and they did have kids. Sort of like people who claim that they're much happier being single.

You're a 21 yr old college kid. Don't even think about kids until you're ready for them.

You might change your mind when you're a bit older and you might not. The good thing is that you don't have to worry about it now and you have choices in your life. That's one of the best things that the women's movement has done for all of us. We have choices that earlier generations didn't have.

Having kids is the best thing ever - and the hardest thing ever. You should be ready for it. I don't think it's a good idea to look at other people's kids though and make a decision based on that because it's totally different having your own. It's a kind of love that can't be explained. When you meet the right guy and get a little older you might start to really want kids but if not then I think there's nothing wrong with that. People shouldn't pressure you to have kids if you don't want them but as a parent I really want to get some grandkids out of my girls someday!

I think it's good you don't want kids yet at 21, it's too young!

"If you don't want kids, it is OK to not have kids and don't let any female relative tell you that decision is "selfish". Drives me nuts."

I'm a 28 yr. old guy and this, too, drives me nuts. It makes no sense.

My friend (who has kids) says, "If you have them, they are a joy unparalleled. If you don't have them, you won't miss them."

Me three. It's just as selfish to decide to HAVE kids as it is to decide not to. I'm not saying it's a bad thing--some kinds of selfish are good things--just that it's equally selfish. (Actually, in some ways it may be more so, as there is no NEED for to add any more kids.)

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mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
http://momocharms.wordpress.com

My favorite quote from the book Eat, Pray, Love by Elizabeth Gilbert was when the author's sister told her "having kids is like getting a tattoo on your face. You'd better be pretty sure you want it." (Or something like that!)

To quote myself: I know I'll get flack for this position

Katy, what is the motivation, and I mean that sincerely? It can't be propagation of the species, as the planet is overpopulated I thought for a minute or two I wanted them but think it was society's expectation. And then when I found "the one" we briefly thought, oh, it'd be cool, but quickly changed our minds.

You are very right, to be a good parent it is the most selfless thing you can do. The child will factor into every decision one makes. I still can't help but believe there is some element of egoism that goes into becoming/being a parent.

I still can't help but believe there is some element of egoism that goes into becoming/being a parent.

You're probably right for many people. I don't think having children is completely selfless - I do think there is a bit of selfishness in there. I had children because I wanted them. I wanted to raise children. I love being around children and always have. I wanted to experience the joy of motherhood and the challenge of raising a child the way I believe is right. I truly believe that I am leaving the world a better place because I have children. I know that sounds kind of conceited and sappy, but I really do believe that my children make the world better. Can't explain it any more than that.

There are many people who should not have children, but I think you'll agree that if every person in North America suddenly decided to stop having children, then our lives would certainly not be better. A healthy middle-ground is needed, I believe.

Raising a child involves selfless acts (or, at least if you're doing it right ;-)). The decision to HAVE children, IMO, is largely a selfish one.

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mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
http://momocharms.wordpress.com

boy, you have a big ego. " I truly believe that I am leaving the world a better place because I have children. " Maybe this world would be a better place if all you mommy want to bee's go collect all the thousand and thousand of kids that are dumped like stray animals. Do you think your kids will be the one's who find a cure for aids, or solve the oil crisis, or the water crisis or hundreds of other problems this world faces? What bubble do you live in? Where I live, most of the kids do not have fathers they know, and are being raised by single moms. And the rest, have fathers, but also brothers and sisters from other mommy's. And a few actually have a mommy and a daddy, that have sex with each other like its supposed to be, instead of the whole neighborhood. . Have fun continuing to live in that bubble.

You can't negate biology. Its a drive most of us are born with. Beyond that, for many there is immense joy in family. Your earlier post talked about no guaranties that your kid won't grow up to ba an ass. That is not a factor at all. Trust me, my brothers have brought a ton of grief to my mother, but not for one minute does she regret having them and raising them. In my experience there is no equat to the parent-> child love. Not even child->parent really comes close. When I had my daughter I understood my mother a lot better.

How many things do we do in life that don't entail a certain amount of egoism? But its crazy to think that is a primary motivation for most. I guess my problem with your post is really that you made a sweeping (negative) generalization about parenthood. Putting a disclaimer in front changes nothing.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

I knew it was just a matter of time before someone blew my statement out of proportion. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your children.

<edited because I was a bit cruel the first time>

"The decision to HAVE children, IMO, is largely a selfish one. "

I'm totally baffled by this comment. Enlighten me please. You sacrifice a lot in some ways (but gain in others) when you have kids, but I don't see how this is a selfish decision.

I once had a guy tell me that he didn't want to have kids because he wouldn't then be able to afford his Audi. To me that's sefish, but quite OK because he would have made a lousy father. At least he realized it.

Welcome to the first thread on The Womens where someone is verbally attacked in such a harsh way. This is why girls play better together than boys do.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

I had a big debate about this issue in the Lav Room with Vitus because I said my decision to have children was somewhat selfish. I was comparing it to adoption. Adoptive parents are my heroes. The decision to bring your own child into the world is a bit selfish. I don't think I would say "largely" selfish, but there is some selfishness to it.

No worries. I'm a veteran of the Lavender Room. This kind of attack doesn't bother me a bit.

I'm adopted and to me, my parents and my birth mom are the most selfless set of parents I know. My birth mother was single, in 1969, in a conservative town and risked humiliation and being outcast for having a baby out of wedlock. She made the even harder decision to give me up because she knew she couldn't care for me. My parents wanted children enough to put aside any ego and bring both my brother and myself into their home.

I'm very lucky to have parents who loved me enough to make these decisions. Every kid should be wanted this much.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Folks are focusing on choosing to have kids with the intention of having mini me's. My daughter was an oops and I never had a master plan beyond making it through the day and the kids going to college. I was using birth control, but honestly didn't think I could get pregnant because I didn't menstruate almost the whole 4 years of college.
I got married when I was 24 and had no intentions of having kids. My husband (now ex-husband)had a child from a previous relationship, so he was all set. Four months after we were married, on my 25th birthday, I found out I was pregnant. I was horrified. I swear as soon as that pregnancy test was positive, I gained 8 pounds on my butt and thighs. It was like aliens took over my body. I was hungry ALL the time and all I wanted was cheeseburgers (I hadn't eaten red meat in years and typically don't like any dairy products except ice cream). I was totally stressed out, I was getting fat, and could barely stay awake after work to safely drive home, nonetheless workout. I hated going to the doctor every month; getting poked and weighed. Eventually I felt better and started to workout, mostly non impact stuff like the stairmaster. I remember waking my husband up in the middle of the night when I was 7 months pregnant and telling him that I changed my mind and I wasn't having the baby. I hated all the women that had cute little bellies that looked like basketballs, I looked like a weebull.
I was a tomboy, never played with dolls and never paid attention to my friends that had babies. I was two weeks late with my daughter and just about everything yuchy they could do to you during labor, they did. I started labor pains on a Wednesday night and had her on the following Sunday. After Lindsay was born, my whole world changed, for the better. I was completely head over heels in love with this little girl. Good thing, because she was a high maintenance pain in the butt! But since I never paid attention to other babies, I didn't know that they were supposed to actually sleep and not scream when you put them down. I never knew that I could love someone so much. Twenty months later I had my son, Ian. I always tell him that it was a good thing I was already pregnant when Lindsay learned how to talk, because she would have been an only child. I think she spoke her first words with her hands on her hip.
My body definitely has some permanent wear and tear from being pregnant, but I was always back to a size 4 within 3 months of giving birth. I typically managed to get an hour of cardio everyday and lifted 3-4 times a week. My husband quickly realized that I was in a lot better mood after I worked out. I also work full-time. The most precious commodity for the first 6 years was sleep.
My kids are 17 and 19 and I consider them the best thing I have ever done.
I guess my point, if I even have one, is that you don't know how you are going to feel and it changes all the time.

When I was in my 20s, I couldn't imagine being married, let alone being a mom! I'm now 33 and have been married for two years. I have only recently started thinking that I would like to have kids. And, now, I'm actually getting excited about the idea. My husband and I will probably start trying after IMLP (priorities!), but we also know that there is a good chance that kids are not in our future. We have talked about this and both of us feel that we will be just fine if we never have kids.

Life changes as you get older (which you'll understand better as you get older). It's amazing how priorities change before you even know it. My husband has been doing Ironman races for five years and has loved it. But, each year you train for an IM, you come across other things that you want to do, but don't have the time for. So, at some point, he figures he'll stop IM for a while and focus on other hobbies, races, etc. I don't think he expected that he would enjoy NOT doing an IM, but I'm thinking that he probably won't sign up for 2009 (of course, that all depends on what happens at this year's race! :) )

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Only those who go too far can possibly find out how far they can go. -T.S. Eliot

We don't have kids anymore to ensure the survival of the species. We have kids because we WANT to. We want somone to rear, teach things to, take to ball games, watch grow, whathave you. The choice to carry out that impulse is in our own interest. Ergo, selfish.

I'm not saying it's a BAD thing--sometimes selfish is good--just that it's a selfish choice. When one has the kid, one must behave selflessly at times. But for most people choosing to have kids is a selfish act.

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mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
http://momocharms.wordpress.com

I think you're confusing "Selfish" with "bad". FWIW.

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mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
http://momocharms.wordpress.com

It sounds like you live in a really sad bubble. Believing in your kids is what good parents do best. Someone will solve the oil crisis someday and they will probably have had a parent who believed in them. ;-)

it was not my intention to start a heated debate between those who have choosen to have kids and those who have not. Both have very valid reasons for their choices, and it comes down to the individual. This issue is too personal for attacks by either side.

thank you to all who have shared their thoughts. Its probably wrong to get this from an internet site, but i feel better that people really can go either way, and that if its right or not right, people seem to know.

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"What am I on? I'm on my bike busting my ass for six hours a day. What are YOU on?" - Lance Armstrong

Where I live, most of the kids do not have fathers they know, and are being raised by single moms... And a few actually have a mommy and a daddy, that have sex with each other like its supposed to be, instead of the whole neighborhood.

Dare I even reply? After all this is The Womens, not the LR. But seriously, are you suggesting single moms are not capable of raising children that are an asset to society? I am one of those single moms. My daughter does not know her father. The fact is he's been dead for the majority of her life. So I'm not having sex with him anymore. But at least I live in a really nice neighborhood, so I'm getting top notch play as I work my way through it.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Katy:

I didn't mean to make it a "sweeping generalization" but I happen to be exposed to many folks who will say things to me like "well, kids end up an extension of yourself." or "they're going into my profession as well." or "well, my time is over, I just hope X enjoys Y as much as I used to." Is that not a "mini me?"

Are you saying that the primary urge to have children is a biological one?

I think I was trying to help the OP think hard if the situation presents itself to have children and think about why many many folks choose to have children (the non oops variety). There is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with having children because family brings SELF gratification and joy, or you hope to leave a legacy behind but at least own these feelings.

I appreciate Dawn's post because at least she's being honest about why she has children, even if others lambasted her post for being egotistical.

I know this is the kinder, gentler Womens and we're getting more into LR type material....unfortunately this is one of those topics that seems to be divided down the haves and have nots. I think there's great reasons for both positions, I just hate seeing young women trod down a path due to some idea that society (yes even in 2008) expects women to "get married and have kids" when one can live a joyous, full life married and childless, unmarried and childless, or unmarried and with child, etc. etc.

I didn't give kids a thought one way or the other until my late 20s. You'll know when you know. It may be a hormonal thing; it may be where you are in your life. The only thing I'd suggest avoiding is having kids because someone other than yourself (such as your future mother-in-law) wants you to have them.

I'm late to the party but will drop in my 2cents nontheless.

I'm 31 now and ten years ago the last thing I could have imagined was wanting kids. Like many others here I've never been the play with dolls type of girl. Now that I'm in a loving marriage with a great man and we have a stable financial situation due to both of us following career paths we enjoy and all our undergrad and graduate schoolilng is finished it's becoming more of a possibility I entertain. The reason I would want a kid is that I would love to share my life with another person - biological or otherwise. Then there are days I hang out with my friends' kids and I'm ready to throw myself off a ledge. :)

Truthfully, I think we'll probably try to have a kid in the next 18 months or so and see what happens. Neither of us feels that we need a biological child and are more than happy to adopt but having had friends who have gone through the adoption process it can be a really really ugly road. We're willing to do it if that's what the powers dictate but figure we ought to have some fun trying the good ol'fashioned way first. But if it's meant to be we're not supposed to have kids at all then we'll accept that and I'll just end up being the neighborhood crazy lady who has a small herd of dogs, cats, bunnies, and other random rescued livestock and I'll be completely happy.

The fact that some people choose to have kids/get married/etc due to societal pressures is, in this day and age*, assinine and not a real reason to bring children into this world. On the other hand, people who feel it's appropriate to bash others who have made different life choices then them is also assinine.

* I realize that even a generation ago that pressure was very different. When I asked my mom why she had kids she said that it was what people did after they got married. When I asked her if it was all worth it she said "most of the time." Not necessarily the answer one wants to hear from one's mom but I imagine it's also a very truthful answer.

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I don't think I feel that single moms are lame? I just see so many single moms, and most are not like your situation, of father being dead. I wonder what has happened to our society. Most of the single mom's i have experience with have 3 jobs to try and care for their families. And where does that leave the kids? Passed on to other family members or neighbors or left to care for themselves, because proper childcare for working mom's work eat would up the money that mom makes in her 3 jobs. I just feel sad that most of the kids I know are not from a two parent home. And the job fells solely on the mother. And the pressure is pretty intense and many many fell through the cracks. I wonder if people who post on this forum have any clue of the problem,because they are, shall I generalize, higher up on the food chain.

You said "like it's supposed to be"...

very funny...

When I was your age I would say I was indifferent about kids. I couldn't imagine my life with them or with a husband. Then I got older and got married and over the last couple of years (starting at about age 27) anytime I saw a small child I would just stand there smiling and watching and gradually it dawned on me that I wanted to be a mother. I have issues so getting pregnant was not a guarantee and we have discussed adoption. I was fortunate enough to get pregnant and am so excited, and so scared to be a mother. It's funny that now that we are telling people I'm pregnant, those who are closest to me now aren't surprised and are really happy, those who knew me in high school and college have been responding, "really, super driven Angela is pregnant?" There's a chance you'll change your feelings about kids, and there is a chance you won't. Either way its your choice and so long as you are happy with it, it's the right choice.

Sorry I have been so harsh. I wish I had more positive family units around me. I'm thankful I had a positive family growing up, or I'd probably be worse!

maybe you could extend a helping hand to the women in your hood who are having time-management problems with the kiddies? take the little ones to the park for some swing-time? buy em an ice cream cone? sure is a lot better than sitting around watching the moms and judging them by their failure to meet your expectations of what a *good mom* should be (which you apparently acquired from your *positive family*??? hmmmm???) ... just a thought ... one small step to a better world ... you could be auntie timberdick!

only reason i'm butting in ... i singly parented a whole brood of my own biologic kids, adopted kids, foster kids, special needs kids, and a whole nother brood of various and sundry mutts, birds, kitties and rabbits ... and everyone ended up a-ok. it is a rainbow world out there. no one has to fit anyone's mold of how to do it. you just have to do your best.

thanks for the suggestions. I do and have done all and more of your suggestions. plus pay my taxes so my neighbor can support her kids with wick. It's not a question of good mom bad mom. Remember what the original thread is about? I guess I feel too many people have kids for all the wrong reasons. I'm guilty of going off on a rant myself.

It is interesting that at the age when women are biologically best ready to have children, most are not emotionally ready. Women have options of education, careers, etc that they are going after while "in the old days" they would be having babies. The sad fact is that many women who don't want children at 21 DO want them at 35 and find they are unable to have them. That being said, there isn't any reason to have kids if you don't want them.

>>does that feeling about having/wanting kids change over time? will some mothering hormone come along some day and tell me i want kids, or no? <<

Sometimes no. I've known since I was about 14 that I didn't want kids. And have never had the urge to have one (much to my mother's chagrin when she was alive). I don't really like them all that much (the mini-KEJ excepted) and know quite a few gals (and even quite a few married couples) who feel the same way.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Kids... hmmm... interesting. I love my daughter. But I knew the second I had her that I would never have another one. I always knew I wanted kids, and now that I have one, I think I should have thought it through more. I honestly feel too selfish a person for kids.

I struggle with trying to not feel like she is holding me back or making it too hard to do the things I want to do. I never want to resent her.

I find the struggle is in remembering I am her parent, that I can't just always try to be her friend.

They make you worry all the time.

I think if I didn't have to work so much, and I could spend more time with her, I'd be happier. The worst times are when I have to bust my ass in the morning to drive her to daycare then to work, and I am late late late for work. I get angry at her even though it's not her fault. She's only 4 after all.

As she has become more capable of taking care of herself, and in communicating with me and others, it is certainly easier in some respects. She is capable of expressing emotions and feelings, and I love nothing more than a snuggle with my girl and hearing her tell me she loves me.

It is worthwhile. But I am already planning my second life, after she is grown up.

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

I'm 45....(uh well.. 46 in 22 days) lol. I have a daughter, 23 yrs... but she was a baby at one time. I'm the wierdest of all. I hate babies !!! .... I couldn't wait for her to be a toddler and then every year it got better and better!!

I loved being pregnant and I actually thought about being a surrogate mother..... I didn't mind her growing in my body....it was once she came out & I didn't like her till about a year old. Sorry...That sounds so mean !!

Now she's married and this is the wierdest part of all... I'm actually looking forward to being the best Grandma ever ...even in the baby stage!!... But I don't like other people's babies !

And about deciding if I wanted children or not..... It was 2 years after we got married & I thought I was pregnant...we weren't wanting one at that time..At least we didn't think we did. The thing was .....we got so excited thinking that I was pregnant, that when we found out I wasn't, we decided it was time to make a baby.

That is a sweet sentiment, and I enjoyed reading it. Hope you get your grands soon. The world needs more tri grannies.

As far as the rest of the dialogue goes....it's all been said already.