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RunTraining (the links)
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Much thanks to djm2150 who found these for me. I wanted to steal it and put it my own post only so that I can keep the list updated. I found some older ones (13-16) that I've attached the search link to.

I've learned a lot since writting a lot of these and hope to go back and edit them to make sure that the best information gets across. Anyone who reads these for the first time keep in mind that I in no way pretend to be an authority on elite running. These posts are mainly intended to get runners who don't have a strong background in distance running to begin to understand how they can structure their training to get faster. Those that seem to be fishing in the dark tell me that these have ben beneficial. For more advanced runners the threads provide a medium to compare and contrast ideas about training.

Hope you enjoy. Any hate mail can alway be PM'd directly to me.


Reorganized to bring more appropriate threads to the top:


* The Program (part 1)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...%20part%201;#2548394

* The Program (part 2)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...%20part%202;#2554186

* The Program (part 3)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...part%203%20;#2560901


Swimming: Compilation of some of Doug Stern's tips:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ring=barryp;#4020943




1) Runtraining11 - Understanding how to balance your program (Dec 13, 07)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ntraining11;#1600721

2) RunTraining19 - Gradual Progressive Training
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ntraining19;#1897663

3) RunTraining20 - Andavnce beyond the begginer's stage running program
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ntraining20;#1949381

4) Zero to PR in 7 months - My Training Log
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

5) Runtraining7 - Struggling with running? Many have improved from this simple fix. (May 10, 07)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...untraining7;#1311512

6) Runtraining10 - How can YOU get faster at running - LSD vrs intensity (Oct 4, 06)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ntraining10;#1007702

7) RunTraining16 - REPETITION TRAINING, HILL TRAINING - How to link your base phase to your interval phase.
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ntraining16;#1029990

8) RunTraining15 - A VERY IMPORTANT WORKOUT THAT MIGHT BE MISSING IN YOUR ROUTINE....NEWS AT 11! (Tempo Runs)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ntraining15;#1020627
Try this new link
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

9) Why Speedwork is Overrated
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...;;page=unread#unread


The rest (still worth a read....if I do say so myself ; ^ ).

RunTraining1 - Training for the time limited triathlete (Jan 31, 07)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Runtraining2 - The Zatopek Paradox (Feb 6, 07)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...untraining2;#1187478

Runtraining3 - Long Runs (fast or slow?) (Feb 8, 07)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...untraining1;#1190259

RunTraining4: Training Stresses for Different Workouts (Mar 26, 07)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...untraining4;#1250345

Runtraining5 - Some tips for the up and coming season (Apr 13, 07)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...untraining5;#1274763

Runtraining6 - Optimizing time, setting priorities (May 5, 07)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...untraining6;#1305376

Runtraining8 - Some tips on improving running form (May 14, 07)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...untraining8;#1315768

Runtraining12 - A simple model to structure your training (Dec 20, 07)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ntraining12;#1608381

RunTraining13 - Track Workouts - How fast, how often, what time of year?
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ntraining13;#1014205

RunTraining14 - Hill Training
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ntraining14;#1152546

RunTraining17 - THE FORMULA
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ntraining17;#1832962

RunTraining18 - TRAINING TABLES
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ntraining18;#1836368

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
Last edited by: BarryP: Jul 16, 12 7:28
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for pulling these all together in one place!
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Most of these links have died! :(
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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The dead links have been fixed. Sorry it took so long.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for putting this list together Barry, great stuff!
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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There are still a bunch of mislabelled links that aren't working.

#3 #5 #7
and
Runtraining2 - The Zatopek Paradox (Feb 6, 07)

This is on my watched list though. Great list.
Last edited by: M~: May 14, 09 10:40
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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thanks for this! i've only been running 6 months, but it looks like i might actually be doing some stuff right ;)

generally monday is LSD day - now up to almost 12k (stalled at about 10k for awhile due to bad shoes whose cushioning wore out after 9.5k, every time. new shoes only purchased in time for taper for 10k race 1.5 weeks ago, so this week was my first real LSD with them @ 11.7km. went well, felt good). hope to be up over 20km before fall by increasing gradually.

wednesday i do a hill workout - live on top of a huge one, so (apart from my jogging-in-place in my livingroom warmup) i get about 1km of flat running to set pace, large downhill, 4-6 minor uphill/downhills depending on distance (did 6.95km last night - have done up to 8km), then back up the huge hill and 1-2km of more or less flat running to end it before cool-down walk and stretching. i try to keep PRE steady uphill instead of pace, and concentrate on form (getting knees up). used to try to maintain pace, and i can do it, but it burns me out pretty badly.

saturday i do a tempo run of 7 or 8km, and your note about it being a pace you can maintain for 60mins is very helpful - a website i use (runningroom.com) tells me my tempo pace should be much slower, but i don't really consider it a tempo run unless i'm at around my 10k race pace (about 5:46min/km or 9:17min/mile). based on 57:39 finish in recent 10k, runningroom.com says my tempo pace should be 6:16min/km or 10:06min/mile, which is more like my LSD pace.

this is in addition to any bike/run bricks i do...trying to do 1 per week..

cheers!

-mistress k

__________________________________________________________
ill advised racing inc.
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [M~] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. Should be fixed now.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [mistressk] [ In reply to ]
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I need to rewrite the tempo post.


20 minute tempo should be at about 1 hour race pace (10K race pace for you).

A 40 minute tempo will be 7-15 sec a mile slower.

A 60 minute tempo will be abother 7-15 sec a mile slower than that.

Good luck.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks again for contributing; I will be referencing these in the imediate future.

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I need to rewrite the tempo post.


20 minute tempo should be at about 1 hour race pace (10K race pace for you).

A 40 minute tempo will be 7-15 sec a mile slower.

A 60 minute tempo will be abother 7-15 sec a mile slower than that.

Good luck.

thanks for that! guess i need to slow it down a bit...not very good at that, always feels like if i'm doing less than about 10:00min/mile pace i'm just gonna drop to a walk...my LSD pace and 5k race pace are less than 2 minutes per mile apart :p

cheers!

-mistress k

__________________________________________________________
ill advised racing inc.
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [mistressk] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
my LSD pace and 5k race pace are less than 2 minutes per mile apart :p

Good! They are supposed to be! Aerobic maintenance runs should generaly be between 1:30 to 2:30 slower than 5K race pace.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Barry, thanks for doing this.

How about a "How to Taper" article? In addition to being a good conclusion to the others, it has a certain timeliness for me and my marathon 17 days from now:-)
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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In the very first article you say this:


This leads me to The Zatopek Paradox. Emil Zatopek DOMINATED the running scene in the early 1950s winning gold in the 5,000, 10,000, and marathon in the 1952 Olympics and broke 18 world records. If one wanted to become faster in 1952, they'd be wise to take a look at Zatopek's training (but beware....see The Khannouchi Paradox coming soon


But I see no article about the "Khannouchi Paradox". Is there one?
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, that should be the one about Long Run pace.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...untraining1;#1190259


I should probably re-write both of those. I've seen both runners used as examples of ho wto train, and many people train incorrectly because of it.


Zatopek ran intervals all the time. There are some quotes from him about the uselessness of training slow. The problem is, as I pointed out in the post, is that 99% of all competetive distance runners today train in an approach that is completely contradictory to his program. There's a reason for that.

Zatopek was very inovative for his time and I think took running to the next level. Intervals were a great idea, but he likely did too much, hence his times, though the class of his era, plae in comparison to what can be accomplished today.

Lesson from the story: don't follow advice from half a decade ago.


Khalid, OTOH, would do insanely difficult long runs. 1) They aren't as insane as one might think relative to his ability and 2) he's REALLY talented and a REALLY seasoned veteran athlete.

Lesson from the story: don't try to follow insane training protocols from freaks of nature.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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I've done a "Khannouchi Run" in the final prep for a marathon. Nearly destroyed me.
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Barry,

I'm a sub 10 IM, but a very mediocre runner (3:5x marathon) and after 6 Months of NO running I'm just about to dust off the shoes. I think your frequency programme will help me going forward, but wonder if I should start at the very beginning (Week 1), or jump in somewhere further up the table. I guess I know the answer but am in danger of getting impatient before I've even started!

Thanks for your thoughts.

In Reply To:
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Barry, I ran a 22:30 for a 5k this past weekend. I am 54 and run 38 miles average for the last six weeks. The thing i do not understand is if i run vdot pace for any training everything is way too hard. I can run near max for an entire 5k (max HR 180) I just don't get it. What do you think. I would pay for your advice to get better on the run
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [iurnman] [ In reply to ]
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Check out this page

www.mcmillanrunning.com and go to his pace calculator. You shoul dbe somewhere between easy/long run/recovery paces. As long as you are in that range, there's no need to worry about it.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [gingerbottles] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, start *easy*. 1-2 miles a day for the first week is plenty. Sorry for the late response.....you probably figured this out by now. ; ^ )

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Barry, this link seems to not be working.



8) RunTraining15 - A VERY IMPORTANT WORKOUT THAT MIGHT BE MISSING IN YOUR ROUTINE....NEWS AT 11! (Tempo Runs)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ntraining15;#1020627


Thanks for all the information to you and Desert Dude.

Steve
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for this. This has made a huge change for me.
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [real597] [ In reply to ]
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Bumping TTT
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Barry - I have officially created a small book of all your posts. Great read. Much different than I have trained for Ironman in the past ( 2-3 tempo runs per week and 1 long run). I have a couple questions. Can I PM you?
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [yikes] [ In reply to ]
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sure.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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BarryP: thank you so much for this! A friend of mine in atlanta told me about it 3 months ago and I followed it to the letter to train for a 10k today. Prior to this, I was doing 3 hard 10k runs per week and making no progress over the past 3 years. I even did an Ironman (with 3:52 marathon) on this basic strategy (3 hard runs per week and 1 long run). With your guidance I increased my mileage to 30/week (3x3,2x6,1x9) and then after a few weeks added tempo and race intervals in place of the medium runs. today I ran a 41:30, a PR for me by 2 minutes, and qualified for sub-seeded in the Peachtree Road Race next year!!! THANK YOU FOR YOUR GREAT IDEAS AND SERVICE TO THE SLOWTWITCH COMMUNITY!!! And to those thinking about trying this... believe me it works!
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [alpinegoat] [ In reply to ]
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Today I did a race simulation for my next sprint tri. Without much effort at all I did a PR for the 5K run. I've been doing the BarryP run plan for only 4 weeks. I expect to do very well in my next race for me.

--------------------------------------------------------

You will remain the same person, before, during and after the race. So the result, no matter how important, will not define you. The journey is what matters. ~ Chrissie W.
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [alpinegoat] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! I apreciate it.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Link to part 3 has been fixed if anyone was wondering.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Bump...good resource and reads heading into the offseason (For the northern hemisphere, anyway)

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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I'm trying this out and would appreciate advice from those who have done it. There is a lot of info and I'm trying to work it out:

I have been following the running plan and doing ok of it.

I have done 5 weeks logging (with some previous background):

50, 50, 55, 60, 66 Kilometre weeks.

I have popped some 5 k fun runs in there just to make life more fun and have logged:

21:28
20:55
20:11
19:51

Now from reading the plans at phase 2 I switch one of the medium runs for a threshold run? I am not sure of when I am ready for that phase, I was building towards a Marathon in April so had planned to keep going with the phase 1 until I had a long run of around 33 Km.

Is that on the right path or can I start moving into Phase 2 earlier?
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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To Barry or anyone else who has done this, I have read through the articles and over the last 7 weeks I have completed:

50,55,60,66,73,80,88 with one week off as we had a baby, these are kms. I have been doing these as per phase one and I have not been getting any injury issues, the frequency seems to help a lot.

I am seeking guidance on phase2. From my reading of the articles Barry favours going out to 12 weeks especially for the marathon or IM. I am using this as a 5 month out season run focus.

Looking at the progression assuming my body holds up, I will have three more weeks where my distance tops out at around 110 k which will have my long run at the 80 % of race distance. If I can hold this together I plan to repeat the 100 K week twice more.

I can then move to phase 2? Where I switch one of the mid distance runs to a 20 min to one hour threshold effort while holding the other runs at the easy pace and distance of week 12?

Thanks in advance for any help and advice
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [Stevie G] [ In reply to ]
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Gone back and read part 1 and it seems that the plan favours going out to the 12 week mark before throwing in the workouts. Did anybody else get a bit bored doing the high base mileage weeks and get itching to do some faster stuff?

In terms of my background, 5 seasons of doing triathlon, average weeks of running around 50-60 k over the years but split over 3 to 4 runs, but no long term injuries, played football (soccer) and basketball growing up, so not run specific but not coming from the couch
Last edited by: Stevie G: Apr 20, 14 16:03
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [Stevie G] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Stevie, as you know I answered this in a PM. I just wanted to post here in case anyone is following along:

"In general I like phase 1 to be at least 6 weeks, but as long as 12 weeks. The length generally depends on running experience and the race distance you are training for. The less experienced you are, and the longer the race, the longer you want phase 1 to be.

Phase 2 should also be at least 6 weeks, and phase 3 should be 8-10 weeks for most people. The length of phase 2 is often dictated by when the A race is. So, in general, I take the A race and work backward 8-10 weeks to figure out the start of phase 3. I then take the beginning of training and work forward 6 weeks. Somewhere between there and 6 weeks before the beginning of phase 3 you'll want to begin phase 2."


-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Sent in a message, but just a public thanks for the help:

So after 8 weeks of base:

50,55,60,66,73,80,88,88 (km)

I did a performance test, rested for the week and did 5 k in 19:39 which is a PR and in the context of this year 50 seconds better than where I've been all year. Thanks for the help, can't wait to see what happens once I finish this base and get into the meaty work outs.

I really like the fact that such a simple approach just works
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [Stevie G] [ In reply to ]
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Wanted to give a big thanks for Barry and other forum contributors regarding the Barry P running plan.

I have been following the 6 days a week running plan since November. Thanks for Dev's (100/100) motivation - I put in a big running focus block this winter.

I just finished my first spring running race this past weekend. PR'd the course with a lower HR by a long shot.

Thanks again!
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [SkipS] [ In reply to ]
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I run and average of 1,5 hour a week for an IM preparations, if I don't do almost only speed work I might as well not show up at the events.
IMO thats only applicable if you have enough time to train a lot. I've got 6 to 7 hours a week to train for the 3 sports.
I'll definitly look into this program if I can manage to train longer in the future
Last edited by: strangename: Aug 13, 18 21:36
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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strangename wrote:
I run and average of 1,5 hour a week for an IM preparations, if I don't do almost only speed work I might as well not show up at the events.
IMO thats only applicable if you have enough time to train a lot. I've got 6 to 7 hours a week to train for the 3 sports.
I'll definitly look into this program if I can manage to train longer in the future
You're reviving an old thread here. Last reply is over 2 years ago.
Regardless. I've trained less than the vast majority prior to doing an IM but I was still doing quite a bit more than you. I started at 6 to 7 hours a week and ramped it up to about 12hrs at peak.
If you only have 6 to 7 hours to train then I think it's folly to do IM distance races. Possible - yes, worthwhile - no (IMO). You'd be better off doing shorter distance races. Why aim for IM if you don't have the time to train for it. Do what you can fit in and enjoy it!
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Re: RunTraining (the links) [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
strangename wrote:
I run and average of 1,5 hour a week for an IM preparations, if I don't do almost only speed work I might as well not show up at the events.
IMO thats only applicable if you have enough time to train a lot. I've got 6 to 7 hours a week to train for the 3 sports.
I'll definitly look into this program if I can manage to train longer in the future

You're reviving an old thread here. Last reply is over 2 years ago.
Regardless. I've trained less than the vast majority prior to doing an IM but I was still doing quite a bit more than you. I started at 6 to 7 hours a week and ramped it up to about 12hrs at peak.
If you only have 6 to 7 hours to train then I think it's folly to do IM distance races. Possible - yes, worthwhile - no (IMO). You'd be better off doing shorter distance races. Why aim for IM if you don't have the time to train for it. Do what you can fit in and enjoy it!

You're right, I'm sory for replying to this thread I have no idea how I managed to fall upon such an old topic...I didn't check the date. But to answer your post, It's the second IM I've done with that training, I've done some weeks at 10H however, 6.2H/week is the average in 8month training for the last. I've finished them in around 10h45 both, so even though I'd like to train more I find it interesting to optimise training as much as possible. Next season will be focused on shorter distance however, because having this litle time to train puts a lot on pressure to make sure you are always pushing yourself.
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