I didn't say they aren't lighter. I'm saying they're taking us for idiots by claiming most of the 250g is from going hookless. We know that's not possible, and we know Zipp wants to shift fully to hookless so they have a reason to exaggerate any benefit.

My explanation? I didn't make the wheels, so I can't tell you if it's the hub, thinner walls, etc. But most likely most of it is just generic improvements in carbon and hubs that other brands made 5 years ago. Zipp had by far the heaviest wheels until this generation. After all this weight loss, the 808 is on par with SES 7.8

My suggestion would be to just be honest. Obviously not "just better margins for us" but at least don't oversell claims to the point that they can't pass a sniff test. "We saved 40g by eliminating hooks, 70g on hubs, and 130g be reducing wall thickness due to lower pressure limits" wouldn't stand out as odd.

Edit: To clarify, these wheels look excellent on paper. The marketing lines just rubbed me the wrong way. It reads like an adult explaining something to a kid in a nonsensical way, knowing they won't get it anyway.