Kinda jumped in on the last couple of pages and not sure how long the beef with Censored has been going on but I don't think his points are necessary invalid. Although the "They should have all shut their mouth" stuff is kinda off base.
I do have to disagree with you on a couple of points (as always). :-)
"Imagine, then instead of doping if he'd raised the profile of US racing for all those years by racing here. Where would we be now? Do you think Philadelphia would have been shuttered? Would Battenkill now be a Gran Fondo? probably not. The thing you don't understand is Lance never had to win the TdF to do great things, it's just what he chose."
I think you underestimate the ultimate lack of interest in cycling that existed in America in '99 and now. Who's the hottest domestic pro today? Dunno. Who's the hottest domestic pro that had cancer at some point. Dunno. Don't care. Nobody cares about the domestic scene except for those who are already interested in the domestic scene. Who's the hottest pitcher in the AAA's? Whose the heaviest hitter in the the AA's? Who's the highest scorer in the CBL or the summer league? Nobody cares except for scouts.
"Hi, I'm Lance Armstrong and I've won the Tour of Utah 5 times. Please donate to cancer". Not so much.
Cycling would have been the same now as then with maybe some marginal gains. TdF stages on NBC. Nope. ToC stage winners announced on ESPN. Nope. Nada. Zero.
But an American cancer survivor winning 7 TdF titles (back to back). Shazam!!!!! Media gold. And don't forget it. Despite all the belly aching that goes on in forums. LA did for cycling (not just American cycling) what no other cyclist in history has done. (Hold the smarmy comments). Mainstream America. The biggest TV market in the world. How much did NBC pay ASO to broadcast live?
And LA didn't "force" anyone to do anything. Big boys make their own decisions as evidenced by the sad fact that many very talented individuals left cycling during that era due to their inability to compete without crossing the line.
LA's stature didn't really have much to do with the investigation, per se, his riding for the U.S. Government did. As I have stated in other posts, without the Feds, USADA would have had jack. I am glad this came out as I think it is going to play out in an ultimately beneficial way for cycling (UCI getting busted, etc.) and as you have intimated may be a launch pad for other sports to have better regulation.
Backbone and moral fortitude are good for people but... that's a bit black and white. As goes the philosophic conundrum. Your wife is dying from a disease that can be cured with a single medication. You do not have the money to purchase the medication and no one will give you the medication or donate the money for the medication but you have the ability to break into the pharmacy and steal the medication to save you wife's life. Of course theft is against the law.
Life is not always about moral fortitude. It's about making choices. Sometimes you make the wrong choices. Sometimes you apologize. Sometimes you don't.
Looks like LA is... we'll see.
Edit: Read some more posts. Points not valid by Censored... The painkiller BS, the LA is more noble BS. Agree, might just be a troll.
Edit: But that doesn't invalidate my points. ;-)
I do have to disagree with you on a couple of points (as always). :-)
"Imagine, then instead of doping if he'd raised the profile of US racing for all those years by racing here. Where would we be now? Do you think Philadelphia would have been shuttered? Would Battenkill now be a Gran Fondo? probably not. The thing you don't understand is Lance never had to win the TdF to do great things, it's just what he chose."
I think you underestimate the ultimate lack of interest in cycling that existed in America in '99 and now. Who's the hottest domestic pro today? Dunno. Who's the hottest domestic pro that had cancer at some point. Dunno. Don't care. Nobody cares about the domestic scene except for those who are already interested in the domestic scene. Who's the hottest pitcher in the AAA's? Whose the heaviest hitter in the the AA's? Who's the highest scorer in the CBL or the summer league? Nobody cares except for scouts.
"Hi, I'm Lance Armstrong and I've won the Tour of Utah 5 times. Please donate to cancer". Not so much.
Cycling would have been the same now as then with maybe some marginal gains. TdF stages on NBC. Nope. ToC stage winners announced on ESPN. Nope. Nada. Zero.
But an American cancer survivor winning 7 TdF titles (back to back). Shazam!!!!! Media gold. And don't forget it. Despite all the belly aching that goes on in forums. LA did for cycling (not just American cycling) what no other cyclist in history has done. (Hold the smarmy comments). Mainstream America. The biggest TV market in the world. How much did NBC pay ASO to broadcast live?
And LA didn't "force" anyone to do anything. Big boys make their own decisions as evidenced by the sad fact that many very talented individuals left cycling during that era due to their inability to compete without crossing the line.
LA's stature didn't really have much to do with the investigation, per se, his riding for the U.S. Government did. As I have stated in other posts, without the Feds, USADA would have had jack. I am glad this came out as I think it is going to play out in an ultimately beneficial way for cycling (UCI getting busted, etc.) and as you have intimated may be a launch pad for other sports to have better regulation.
Backbone and moral fortitude are good for people but... that's a bit black and white. As goes the philosophic conundrum. Your wife is dying from a disease that can be cured with a single medication. You do not have the money to purchase the medication and no one will give you the medication or donate the money for the medication but you have the ability to break into the pharmacy and steal the medication to save you wife's life. Of course theft is against the law.
Life is not always about moral fortitude. It's about making choices. Sometimes you make the wrong choices. Sometimes you apologize. Sometimes you don't.
Looks like LA is... we'll see.
Edit: Read some more posts. Points not valid by Censored... The painkiller BS, the LA is more noble BS. Agree, might just be a troll.
Edit: But that doesn't invalidate my points. ;-)