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this helmet vs that helmet
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I know this test is a few weeks old, and like all tests with lids there is prob not too mch you can read into it. But its interesting there was no love for the wing57 or the P09. Bambino was the good lid it seems.
http://www.bikeradar.com/...trial-helmets-34859/

I know, the P09 tested well at aero camp (just saying those words make me laugh). The wing57 was 'ok' too. So why did they test so bad here. Was it because this is just 1 rider and what works for them?
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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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The LG P-09 tested pretty well for me last week at the LA velodrome with ERO.

Not the fastest, but pretty close.
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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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They tested at one yaw setting, and on one rider. YMMV.

Looking at some of the pics, the Wasp integrates nicely with the rider's back, while the Javelin leaves a gap (rider-specific). Also the rider's head position does not seem to be consistent between helmets.

Basically all I can take from this is that an aero helmet will save 1:30-2:00/40k vs. a standard road helmet.


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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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my wing57 leaves a gap. I dont see many people in which the wing57 really sits flush. Is the common theme, if it fits the back it is usually more aero?
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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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coates_hbk wrote:
my wing57 leaves a gap. I dont see many people in which the wing57 really sits flush. Is the common theme, if it fits the back it is usually more aero?

I have a Wingspan, and it's the same. The RPs are designed to be optimal across a range of yaws and head positions, and as a result rarely sit flush, but incur less of a penalty when they are not.


Taking Kienle as an example. His helmet meshes very well with his back.



However, if he looks down he loses the flow reattachment, and has that big tail sticking up in the wind.


So did he make the right equipment choice...really depends on what head position he holds.

The RPs would probably be less aero for him in the first pic, and more aero in the second one.


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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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So I am in the market for a new aero helmet and I do tend to ride heads down some if not most of a bike segment. I originally was thinking the LG P-09 or the new Rudy but after reading the study I am not so sure.

I no it is really dependent on bike fit and position along with riding style but are there general rules of thumb for data? Like X/Y/Z helmets are generally good for heads up and A/B/C are good for heads down?

I have been searching this and although the article references the positions I am not sure I trust the data.
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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [hueby416] [ In reply to ]
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Be sure you understand what head down means.

If your face is pointed down because your position is low, that doesn't make long tail helmets stick up, your head is not actually down, the neck isn't bent forward.

Best bet is get on your bike, and try out some helmets. Don't just assume "oh my head is down, can't wear this or that" because maybe you can.



hueby416 wrote:
So I am in the market for a new aero helmet and I do tend to ride heads down some if not most of a bike segment. I originally was thinking the LG P-09 or the new Rudy but after reading the study I am not so sure.

I no it is really dependent on bike fit and position along with riding style but are there general rules of thumb for data? Like X/Y/Z helmets are generally good for heads up and A/B/C are good for heads down?

I have been searching this and although the article references the positions I am not sure I trust the data.



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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
Big tails sticking up in the wind are not always much of a penalty.
Sometimes it is even faster.

In the case where having the tail sticking up is faster; it's faster than having the head up in the airflow (even with the penalty of the tail sticking up), but not faster than head down and no tail. The tail up in the wind does add some drag, though as you pointed out it's often a lot less than people would assume.


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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [hueby416] [ In reply to ]
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hueby416 wrote:
So I am in the market for a new aero helmet and I do tend to ride heads down some if not most of a bike segment. I originally was thinking the LG P-09 or the new Rudy but after reading the study I am not so sure.

I no it is really dependent on bike fit and position along with riding style but are there general rules of thumb for data? Like X/Y/Z helmets are generally good for heads up and A/B/C are good for heads down?

I have been searching this and although the article references the positions I am not sure I trust the data.

In general (and generalities are all we can really talk about since fit is so individual), long tail helmets are a good choice as long as the tail isn't sticking high up into the wind. Ideally the tail is flush with the rider's back, but a short tail only makes sense if your head angle would have a long tail sticking way up.

Short tail is a good choice if you spend a lot of time in this position:


Not if you use this position:


Note, it's the same athlete (2013 Kona champ FVL) so he has to pick a helmet based on how he holds his head most often.

One last note, when in doubt consider the Giro Advantage2. It's rarely the top helmet for any athlete, but it's almost always one of the best, so it's always a good choice (unlike milk).


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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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Giro air attack is a good helmet for multiple head positions
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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [eggplantOG] [ In reply to ]
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2nd the air attack. Good for heads up or heads down.
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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [eggplantOG] [ In reply to ]
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As per ERO and the athletes who participated in the Aero Camp, the Giro Air Attack tested poorly vs the Specialized Evade and LG Course.

3 helmets that are know to test consistently well are the Giro A2, LG P 09, and Specialized McLaren TT.
Last edited by: Nick B: Nov 17, 14 21:56
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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Is it just me or is the math way….off in that chart?

IE a CDA of .273 vs .246 but the watts saved and time saved are the same? (Bambino)

….its late and I've been on the road all day,



Maurice

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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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....and of course, you can even affect how well a helmet 'meshes' by rotating it on the head a little. That picture of the Javelin on the test-guy is a good example.

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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
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Yup, you might not expect the Javelin to test so well on that guy and worn that way in this particular position. If you go to the review article for the Javelin there is a picture of him wearing it so it fits much better. The Javelin sits beautifully on my upper back which I am hoping means that it is a good option for me as I'll never get to the tunnel. I've not had any other helmet fit so well.


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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Having been in and out of triathlon for just over 20 years, I have never owned an aero helmet. I do want to buy one for the coming season.

I ride what I would call a moderate position, 9cm of drop. Is there a better helmet that works better for that type of position? I'm leaning towards an A2 or Javelin because they are pretty cheap and seem to work well for a wider range of people.
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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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That Bikeradar "review" of helmets is embarrassing (or should be) for them. One test, one rider, one conclusion. Silly. I actually don't believe I've been back to their site since I read and commented on that article.

As you know by now, helmets, and their drag savings, are individual to a rider and their position. I can make generalizations, but that doesn't mean a specific helmet will be fast for you or anyone else. Considering that statement, we find a lot of helmets work quite well on a wide variety of riders, but certain models seem to generally be consistently better than others. The P09 and Mclaren/SWorks seem to be the class of the field right now, though the Lazer Wasp and Giro Selector also work very well for many riders. The A2 and Javelin offer best bang for your buck. One definitive statement I feel comfortable making is the Evade is clearly the best aero road helmet considering all head positions.

Thats all I have time for this morning. Hope its helpful

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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I've actually seen better numbers from the Kask Infinity than the Evade but it appears as though Velo magazine did not publish the data they received from their rider testing.

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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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I love when people suggest that an aero helmet saves them X time over 180km or whatever. There never seems to be any accounting for the lack of ventilation in most aero lids.

I run pretty hot, and sweat a lot when exercising. I have a pointy hat, but I only use it for short events or cold days. In my N=1 testing (with it being highly subjective) I will wear a normal road hat instead of a pointy hat, whenever it's even remotely warm (by my standards)

As a hint, my favourite temperature for running (but not riding) is -15degC yes, that's minus 15 deg C :-) It's dry, cool and means I can put in a full effort without melting to death from heat or sweat. My preferred riding temperature is about 10deg C (plus 10, not minus 10) thanks to the evaporative cooling effect of the speed.

Regardless of one's preferred temperature, being too hot in a non-ventilated pointy hat slows you down. More or less than the aero gains? who can say for sure, but people never account for that IMHO.

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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
The P09 and Mclaren/SWorks seem to be the class of the field right now, though the Lazer Wasp and Giro Selector also work very well for many riders. The A2 and Javelin offer best bang for your buck.

Like the look of the new stub tailed Lazer Wasp Air. The original Wasp seems to do well in most tests and the new one is supposed to be very close in terms of aeroness, but with less impact of a head down position. Open visor has no drag impact either, according to Lazer. Any plans to test this in a tunnel?
http://www.lazersport.com/waspair
Seems to be available in EU online stores as well, which is not always true for the class leaders above. Been thinking about a P-09, but availability is not good around here and the color/sizing on a Wasp Air looks better (to me), so I might end up getting one this spring.
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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [acco] [ In reply to ]
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Ordered a Wasp Air then, directly from Lazer. Good availability online in EU, good/modern looks, my head size not between helmet sizes and the above "Lazer Wasp...also work very well for many riders" from EROsports made my decision. Not going to do tunnel testing ever, but wanted something that's faster than any road helmet, which I assume this is. These also look so much better than a longtail A2 or a "Starship Enterprise" POC Tempor.

I have a LG Course for training and really hot days.
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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [tridork] [ In reply to ]
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tridork wrote:
I love when people suggest that an aero helmet saves them X time over 180km or whatever. There never seems to be any accounting for the lack of ventilation in most aero lids.

I run pretty hot, and sweat a lot when exercising. I have a pointy hat, but I only use it for short events or cold days. In my N=1 testing (with it being highly subjective) I will wear a normal road hat instead of a pointy hat, whenever it's even remotely warm (by my standards)

As a hint, my favourite temperature for running (but not riding) is -15degC yes, that's minus 15 deg C :-) It's dry, cool and means I can put in a full effort without melting to death from heat or sweat. My preferred riding temperature is about 10deg C (plus 10, not minus 10) thanks to the evaporative cooling effect of the speed.

Regardless of one's preferred temperature, being too hot in a non-ventilated pointy hat slows you down. More or less than the aero gains? who can say for sure, but people never account for that IMHO.

Generally speaking irrespective of temperature I run an aero helmet with all the vents taped over. For short stuff (olympic) I've not noticed a drop off in power with moderate temperatures (up to 38DegC) over the bike distance. It's vastly more uncomfortable at temperature, but I can hold the power. Saying that at the minute all my faster bike efforts are conducted up a 5% ave grade climb and 30-35DegC is typical with 37+ being occasional. So seeing as I imagine most of my races will be 5-10DegC cooler than my training, temperature isn't a big concern for me this year!

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Re: this helmet vs that helmet [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Holy thread resurrection.

Jim is the P09 testing well for riders who put their head down and have the small tail sticking up? Thanks!
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