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Re: indoor cycling training [Snyder2165] [ In reply to ]
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http://perfprostudio.com/

Just had a great winter here with Perfpro Studio. Well worth getting hold of it, some friends, some ANT+ devices and then indoor cycling is not boring
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Re: indoor cycling training [irncpl] [ In reply to ]
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Only one other Sufferlandrian out there? Check out The Hunted, you'll chase Frandy and Gesink up the mountain to pounding Aussie rock and snarky subtitles . . .

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
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Re: indoor cycling training [Snyder2165] [ In reply to ]
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To be honest I spent the last winter at a Velodrome a lot.

Motorpace sessions mainly.

The test session is the Thursday evening one.

3hrs at
5mins 35km/hr
5mins 40km/hr
5mins 45km/hr
5mins 50km/hr

I always take the 50km/hr session as a 5 min recovery drink etc...

At the start of winter I struggled to make 60mins.

Last night I made the entire 3hrs.

So yes it took me all winter to get there but I am heaps stronger now too.

I even managed a second at a road race last weekend. IN the past I have never been able to keep up when the pace is on.

So consider a velodrome.

I was doing
Thur nites as per above.
Sat morning 2hrs of efforts
Sun arvo racing. Biggest race 80laps with sprints ever 10laps



Rhymenocerus wrote:
I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.
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Re: indoor cycling training [hebert.mike] [ In reply to ]
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hebert.mike wrote:
What kind of trainers are you guys using? I've got a fluid trainer and any time I've used it it makes a nasty vibration and feels like it doesn't want to rotate at all. I can be pedaling at max cadence and within a second or two of stopping pedaling the wheel is at a complete halt. I'm trying to get into trainer rides since it's starting to get colder in Chicagoland in the mornings.

+1 for lowering the tension. An effective way to figure out how much tension you should have is by adjusting the tension until you can rotate the wheel a half turn with your hand, and the tire doesn't squeek or slip off the metal contact point. If it slips, tighten it some more and test it again. Wash rinse and repeat!

Hope this helps!
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Re: indoor cycling training [KauaiHigh] [ In reply to ]
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KauaiHigh wrote:
TrainerRoad + Sufferfest. Done.

Works for me! Did "Angels" last night and now I can say I rode up Alpe D'huez (not going to do it any other way!)
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Re: indoor cycling training [Snyder2165] [ In reply to ]
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I'll take a different tack and ask: how bad is your winter weather?

With the right clothing I'm ok riding outside down to 25 degrees F for 2-3 hours, as long as the roads are mostly dry. It's largely a matter of dressing properly. Getting outside for me then breaks up the trainer monotony, which is going to be required at some point. Then for the trainer, I'd say listen to what nslckevin says.
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Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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nslckevin wrote:
I wonder if I got the model with the bigger flywheel with more interia would allow me to do my normal cadence.

I have the bigger flywheel (which just bolts on) and prefer using it to the smaller one. In a couple of admittedly uncontrolled experiments I was able to get closer to a normal cadence at tempo power levels.

But I will also say that I got a LeMond trainer and prefer that to the KK. Except for having to wear earplugs.
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Re: indoor cycling training [KauaiHigh] [ In reply to ]
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KauaiHigh wrote:
TrainerRoad + Sufferfest. Done.

+1

And what Kevin said.
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Re: indoor cycling training [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
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scofflaw wrote:
Only one other Sufferlandrian out there? Check out The Hunted, you'll chase Frandy and Gesink up the mountain to pounding Aussie rock and snarky subtitles . . .

We lurk everywhere.......

insideride rollers, sufferfest, powermeter, and many many fans and a willingness to hurt. you will be fine. Good luck!!



The Rat Snake:
A Tribute Race at Gilbert Lake State Park, Laurens, NY May 16 2015
Follow the Rat Snake on Twitter
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Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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nslckevin wrote:
Tempo, tempo, tempo and more tempo. ~85% of FTP is where I usually land.

When the time changes I go indoors M-F (and on rainy weekend days because I'm a wuss).

1 hour each day.
10' warm up
20' @ Tempo
5' easy
20' @ Tempo
5' cool down and done.

During the 20' sets I pop it up a couple of gears and stand for about 10-15 seconds. Gives your butt a break and make the workout into easy 5' bite sized chunks.

If you are feeling good, ramp it up just a bit to sweet spot.

This is the shit that kills. Do this 5 days a week and get out for longer rides on the weekend and you will crush dreams on the bike come spring.

I don't bother with FTP intervals, VO2 max, sprints etc. on the trainer. It is too much mentally. It's going to be a long winter on the trainer and it's important to stay fresh mentally.

This should not be a killer workout. It might take a week or two to get into it, but you should be able to do this day after day after day. After I broke my collar bone at the end of December I did this workout 7 days a week for about 8 weeks. Coming off of this I rode a 51:32 40km in late April on a double out and back course at sea level. On about my 4th ride outside after the collar bone I did an FTP test. 375W for 20 minutes. Most of the trainer workouts were around 300-310W, once in a while as much as 320.

This is the shit that kills.

Important things for being on the trainer.

Fans. As many as you can reasonably use. I'm outside in the garage with the door open. Even when the outside temp is around 30 degrees F, I've got two fans on my when I'm working and still get pretty soaked in sweat. Ironically, there have been a few days where I wore shoe covers because my feet were really cold while my core was soaking in sweat.

I don't have a TV in the garage, I listen to music. I like to listen to podcasts most of the time, but on the bike when it's time to actually work it has to be music. Preferably 80's hair metal. :-) I like to visualize races that I want to win. On my trainer with a good Night Ranger song going, even Eddy Merckx fears me. :-) One of those Motorola blue tooth headsets is a nice touch. I can set my phone on the work bench next to me and control the volume and skip controls by pushing a button on the headset.

I broke my other collar bone in a crit on Aug 5th, 4.5 weeks before nationals. 3 weeks on the trainer, 1.5 on the road before I went to Bend. 2nd in the TT and I won the RR solo. The week after nationals I did the Mt. Tam hillclimb and won the 45+ group. It's about a 45 minute race depending on how fast your group goes on the flat section. On the main climb? 20' @ 400W.

Why are you still reading this? Get on your freaking trainer and do some Tempo!!!

There may be better indoor schedules and workouts, but you have to be willing to do them day in and day out. 7 days of tempo is better than 4 days of FTP and 3 days of "I can't face getting on my bike".

Good luck.

This sounds good, and I am looking forward to attempting the same thing for my training this winter. however, how/when/where do your other workouts fit into your schedule? I.e. when do you swim and run? Would you share a typical 'winter week' of your training schedule?

Thanks!
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Re: indoor cycling training [TriangleIL] [ In reply to ]
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TriangleIL wrote:
This sounds good, and I am looking forward to attempting the same thing for my training this winter. however, how/when/where do your other workouts fit into your schedule? I.e. when do you swim and run? Would you share a typical 'winter week' of your training schedule?

Thanks!

Kevin plays a real sport (aka Cycling only), not just good at exercising ... No chlorine for him!

;-)

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD
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Re: indoor cycling training [TriangleIL] [ In reply to ]
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He's a cyclist. There is no "other training". Well, maybe some 12oz curls.

For a triathlete, you wouldn't necessarily want to ride 7 days, so you could drop some of those, replace w/ run (or that other thing).
You could also do a quick T-run after some of the bike workouts, for run frequency.

If you wanted to really get better on the bike, you could shelve the run and swim for a few months, and just bike, bike, bike some more.
Then this, and/or perhaps the Flanagan plan, are the way to go.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: indoor cycling training [BrianB] [ In reply to ]
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BrianB wrote:
nslckevin wrote:

I wonder if I got the model with the bigger flywheel with more interia would allow me to do my normal cadence.


I have the bigger flywheel (which just bolts on) and prefer using it to the smaller one. In a couple of admittedly uncontrolled experiments I was able to get closer to a normal cadence at tempo power levels.

But I will also say that I got a LeMond trainer and prefer that to the KK. Except for having to wear earplugs.

I love the feel of the 55lb flywheel on my Velotron. Feels so close to riding outside,

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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nslckevin wrote:
Tempo, tempo, tempo and more tempo. ~85% of FTP is where I usually land.

When the time changes I go indoors M-F (and on rainy weekend days because I'm a wuss).

1 hour each day.
10' warm up
20' @ Tempo
5' easy
20' @ Tempo
5' cool down and done.

During the 20' sets I pop it up a couple of gears and stand for about 10-15 seconds. Gives your butt a break and make the workout into easy 5' bite sized chunks.

If you are feeling good, ramp it up just a bit to sweet spot.

This is the shit that kills. Do this 5 days a week and get out for longer rides on the weekend and you will crush dreams on the bike come spring.

I don't bother with FTP intervals, VO2 max, sprints etc. on the trainer. It is too much mentally. It's going to be a long winter on the trainer and it's important to stay fresh mentally.

This should not be a killer workout. It might take a week or two to get into it, but you should be able to do this day after day after day. After I broke my collar bone at the end of December I did this workout 7 days a week for about 8 weeks. Coming off of this I rode a 51:32 40km in late April on a double out and back course at sea level. On about my 4th ride outside after the collar bone I did an FTP test. 375W for 20 minutes. Most of the trainer workouts were around 300-310W, once in a while as much as 320.

This is the shit that kills.

Important things for being on the trainer.

Fans. As many as you can reasonably use. I'm outside in the garage with the door open. Even when the outside temp is around 30 degrees F, I've got two fans on my when I'm working and still get pretty soaked in sweat. Ironically, there have been a few days where I wore shoe covers because my feet were really cold while my core was soaking in sweat.

I don't have a TV in the garage, I listen to music. I like to listen to podcasts most of the time, but on the bike when it's time to actually work it has to be music. Preferably 80's hair metal. :-) I like to visualize races that I want to win. On my trainer with a good Night Ranger song going, even Eddy Merckx fears me. :-) One of those Motorola blue tooth headsets is a nice touch. I can set my phone on the work bench next to me and control the volume and skip controls by pushing a button on the headset.

I broke my other collar bone in a crit on Aug 5th, 4.5 weeks before nationals. 3 weeks on the trainer, 1.5 on the road before I went to Bend. 2nd in the TT and I won the RR solo. The week after nationals I did the Mt. Tam hillclimb and won the 45+ group. It's about a 45 minute race depending on how fast your group goes on the flat section. On the main climb? 20' @ 400W.

Why are you still reading this? Get on your freaking trainer and do some Tempo!!!

There may be better indoor schedules and workouts, but you have to be willing to do them day in and day out. 7 days of tempo is better than 4 days of FTP and 3 days of "I can't face getting on my bike".

Good luck.

Great stuff.

In the past I had done lots of these and it seemed to burn me but off season, time to think again.

I think I am reading you are saying no value with just some spinning. I have been doing a hour at L2 after my hour swim workouts, 3 days a week. 3 days are tempo on the trainer, and then an hour run. Not sure I could do another tempo ride after the swim workout.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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Kevin, have given much thought to your "$#!+ that Kills" workouts. Thank you for sharing. I know that it has really caught the attention of many of us. I spoke with my coach yesterday who said three other of his athletes asked him about it this week. It seems your results speak for themselves. My understanding is that this is your training strategy from roughly now till the time changes. Which begs the question, what is your training strategy after the time change through the end of the competitive season?
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Re: indoor cycling training [TPerry] [ In reply to ]
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+1000 on the sufferfest - if you want sharp, ass kicking workouts (and ones you won't want to do back to back), sufferfest is amazing as long as you actually do the workouts as designed...it's easy to back off of them and go half ass, but once completed, it will help immensely in your training...

hard to do LSD workouts on the trainer, unless you are crazy-driven, or somewhat insane (and yes, I know many of us are). If you have access to computrainers, the ergvideos (out of Canada) and the real video stuff from Computrainer is really great - best way to get those accomplished is to find a training center/gym/bike shop that has computrainer sessions, then go suffer with friends/like minded folk.
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Re: indoor cycling training [TPerry] [ In reply to ]
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I think you have that backwards. He goes to that regimen once the time changes is my understanding.
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Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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nslckevin wrote:
echappist wrote:
how often do you do the get out of the saddle and rev-it-up routine? Is is similar to the Hour-of-Power?

Also, say if I have 90 minutes every day but no good place to ride after dark, how would you change things to fill up the 90 minutes?

Thanks in advance.


It's not really like hour of power. My power actually drops a bit when I stand up. Maybe 15-20 watts for 10-15 seconds. It really is more of a butt break and mind break.

I do 3x20' on weekends that it rains (or when I have a broken collar bone...). I would be tentative on the idea of doing 3x20', 7 days a week. Maybe 2x20' @ Tempo and 1x20' @ maybe 70% or something for starters to see how that goes.

Thanks again for posting a response. My own situation is that while i might get more time to ride, so I have to get on my rollers and get a trainer.

Last year I took a piece of advice from one of your teammate Carl Spackler and I realized gains beyond my wildest expectations. Hopefully this would allow me to continue my development as a cyclist.
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Re: indoor cycling training [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
nslckevin wrote:
echappist wrote:
how often do you do the get out of the saddle and rev-it-up routine? Is is similar to the Hour-of-Power?

Also, say if I have 90 minutes every day but no good place to ride after dark, how would you change things to fill up the 90 minutes?

Thanks in advance.


It's not really like hour of power. My power actually drops a bit when I stand up. Maybe 15-20 watts for 10-15 seconds. It really is more of a butt break and mind break.

I do 3x20' on weekends that it rains (or when I have a broken collar bone...). I would be tentative on the idea of doing 3x20', 7 days a week. Maybe 2x20' @ Tempo and 1x20' @ maybe 70% or something for starters to see how that goes.


Thanks again for posting a response. My own situation is that while i might get more time to ride, so I have to get on my rollers and get a trainer.

Last year I took a piece of advice from one of your teammate Carl Spackler and I realized gains beyond my wildest expectations. Hopefully this would allow me to continue my development as a cyclist.

With a statement like that, do you mind sharing Chris' advice?

_______________________________________________
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Re: indoor cycling training [TPerry] [ In reply to ]
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Once the "outdoor" cycling season starts for me I try to do two hard days during the week. Generally Tuesday and Thursday. Early on the hard days will be more like Tempo or Threshold. Maybe Tempo to the top of Diablo (time permitting). That works out to about an hour at Tempo pace. Or some threshold intervals. As I get closer to my "A" races (District TT in June, and nationals in September) I will start sharpening the efforts. I will start doing 5' VO2 max intervals and some 1' @ 1.5 FTP intervals. Maybe 4x5' @ VO2 max and then building up to as many as 8 (again, time permitting) as I approach my big races.

The average week looks like this:

Mon - Easy
Tues - Intervals
Wed. - In between. Like ride up Diablo, but sub tempo pace
Thur - intervals
Friday - easy
Sat - race or long ride (long is 4+ hours)
Sun - race or long hilly ride (long is 4+ hours)

Another favorite workout is what I call "Diablopalooza". A full Diablopalooza is three times up Diablo which gives you about 10k' of climbing. I like this because it gives me depth at the end of a hard road race.

While this is going on two other things are happening. It's racing season, so my weekend days are harder than during the winter, and the famous Putah Creek Smack Down (PCSD) TT's start up and I try to do as many of those as possible. The Wednesday TT kind of messes with my T-Th hard schedule. Some times I just try and force it and go hard all three days or do my Tues workout and then PCSD and take it easier on Thurs., or take Tues easier and hard on Wed. and Thurs. For the most part what I do NOT do is try to be fresh for the TT. I try to think long term and if I go 20 seconds slower at the TT because I'm tired from Tuesday, so be it.

Since I'm old I have a lot of options for racing. I almost never do 45+ road races because, well, they race like a bunch of 45 year olds. My default is 35+ (I'm 51) and for certain races I'll do the P/1/2 race. I'd rather get 5th in a P/1/2 road race than win 10 45+ races. I see guys who win lots of 45+ races and think "why the hell aren't you racing down and challenging yourself?" It also gives me a mental advantage. When I show up at nationals I KNOW that there is nobody there who can make me hurt like say, Roman Kilun or Max Jenkins or Phil Mooney, etc.

For TT's I almost always do two. Usually it works out to P/1/2 and then 45+. I am happy when I can still win the 45+ TT after doing the P/1/2 race. I actually did three this year at the Calaveras TT (10 miles). P/1/2 (3rd), 45+ (1st) and Eddy Merckx (3rd).

For crit's I pretty much always do two categories and occasionally three. If you're going to drive all that way you might as well make it worth your while. I generally pick the two that make the most sense schedule wise. It usually works out that there are two close together and then a couple of hours for the third so I'll do the closer together set. Sometimes that's 45+ and 35+ and sometimes it's 35+ and P/1/2. I did all three at the Santa Cruz Crit this year. That is pretty much the best interval workout ever. There is a hairpin turn just after the start finish and a hill leading up to the finish. So you are almost assured to have two sprint like efforts every lap. 79 laps, two jumps per lap. Yep, that was pretty much my year's quotient all in one day. :-)

I race a fair amount and I am not big on resting for races unless they are important. That may even include the day of. Before the San Rafael crit this year I did a four hour ride in the morning. Came home, showered, ate and drove to San Rafael (masters). If I was going to do the P/1/2 my morning ride would have been much shorter. But it goes back to my "is this an important race?" question. If not, I think long term and less about that day's result.

I know a lot of guys who are coached by really good coaches. Their work outs are a heck of a lot more complicated than what I do. I am a very bad person when it comes to working on my sprint. Yeah, it gets worked in crits and even road races to some extent, but I almost never go out and do jumps or something on a training ride. And hey, guess what, my sprint isn't so hot... I'll never be a sprinter, but I could probably improve some if I worked on it.

And finally race a lot. As much as possible. I've been racing since 1985 and a lot of the time I just KNOW when it's going to happen and boom, I'm in the break. This year at the Davis Crit, I only did the P/1/2 race. I started at the back and nearing half way I figured I should move up towards the front. As I was getting close they called back to back primes. I knew there would be a counter move after the 2nd prime. We crossed the line on that second prime and I was still about 10 guys back, but it was time and I jumped across to the winning break. They beat the shit out of me, but it was better than being stuck in the field!

All of my data is public. You can see it on Strava and Training Peaks.

http://www.trainingpeaks.com/...ile.aspx?p=nslckevin

http://www.strava.com/athletes/kmetcalfe

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
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Re: indoor cycling training [Snyder2165] [ In reply to ]
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Pop in a movie with a beat like Tron Legacy and crank it... I also search youtube for long bike race videos. I agree with h20fun that up to tempo is good for me indoors. Above that and you definitely feel the pain :) But with a power meter it's much easier to get in a specific power range and hold it indoors vice outside. Also, 2 hours total is about my limit for sanity. I did a 4 hour session last winter, but it was brutal. When doing long sessions like that I take a short break every hour and walk around a few minutes.
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Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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I really appreciate those two posts. It helps give me hope as I keep plugging away day after day. Because of my work schedule and urban area that I live, I train indoors year round inside and I am classified as a non-competitive recreational roadie. I live in the southeast and could train outside year round, but my schedule does not allow it.

My schedule for this year has been (as a goal with the monkeywrench being life and fatigue at times):

M - 60 min @ L3*
T - 3 x 20 @ L4*
W - 3 x 20 @ L4*
Th - 3 x 20 @ L4*
F - Off
Sat - Outdoor 4 to 5 hours at L2 with a mix of L3/L4 at times
Sun - Outdoor 2 x 60 @ low L3 ride average

* - I go for 3 x 91% FT, but reality is that many of the session end up in the mid to high 80% range. Sometimes I have a great day and have all three in the mid 90% range.

No sound except two fans and the faint sound of a TV show. 60 minutes of just getting it done is my hope day to day.

Anyway thanks for the posts
Last edited by: Felt_Rider: Sep 30, 12 6:26
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Re: indoor cycling training [dforbes] [ In reply to ]
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This is the setup I'm going after. Last winter, it was Sufferfest + PM, but on regular rollers. Would like to add the e-motions this year. Can you get your watts right up on the e-motion's, like over 800 or even 1000?

The Hunted is a great video. I use it as a base line, comparing my watts on the 20-min climb during winter training. I have them all, but The Hunted, Very Dark Place and Local Hero are my top-3. For the price, something like $12/video, you can't go wrong. Real UCI race footage. Some videos are structured workouts, others are loose and mimic racing.
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Re: indoor cycling training [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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Felt_Rider wrote:
I really appreciate those two posts. It helps give me hope as I keep plugging away day after day. Because of my work schedule and urban area that I live, I train indoors year round inside and I am classified as a non-competitive recreational roadie. I live in the southeast and could train outside year round, but my schedule does not allow it.

My schedule for this year has been (as a goal with the monkeywrench being life and fatigue at times):

M - 60 min @ L3*
T - 3 x 20 @ L4*
W - 3 x 20 @ L4*
Th - 3 x 20 @ L4*
F - Off
Sat - Outdoor 4 to 5 hours at L2 with a mix of L3/L4 at times
Sun - Outdoor 2 x 60 @ low L3 ride average

* - I go for 3 x 91% FT, but reality is that many of the session end up in the mid to high 80% range. Sometimes I have a great day and have all three in the mid 90% range.

No sound except two fans and the faint sound of a TV show. 60 minutes of just getting it done is my hope day to day.

Anyway thanks for the posts

Man, those are studly rides on the trainer. I have some arthritis in my right knee (and my excuse) that I just cannot hold those intervals that long. But, I just figure if I can get on the bike 7 days a week or so, like you,
it puts me ahead of most of the guys my age that just cannot keep the focus. (Which they me much smarter folks!!)

60 minutes on the trainer is about all my butt, and mind can handle also. Going to try and do the Sat rides like you do in the hills. I guess it will be what it is since currently I have no power meter for the bike. I still want to make the outside riding fun, rather than more of the numbers stress.

Sunday am going to have to start next season getting some longer 2 to 2.5 hour LSD runs in for the IM prep.

Hopefully all this we get me across the finish line in under 17 hours.

Thanks for posting your workouts.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: indoor cycling training [feldon] [ In reply to ]
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Dude, I've never even seen those numbers before on my PM!!!!!!!! click on the interactive power calculator: http://www.insideride.com/...;id=26&Itemid=69 don't know how high it can go, but for most sufferfest stuff you should be cooked!!! Good luck bro


feldon wrote:
This is the setup I'm going after. Last winter, it was Sufferfest + PM, but on regular rollers. Would like to add the e-motions this year. Can you get your watts right up on the e-motion's, like over 800 or even 1000?

The Hunted is a great video. I use it as a base line, comparing my watts on the 20-min climb during winter training. I have them all, but The Hunted, Very Dark Place and Local Hero are my top-3. For the price, something like $12/video, you can't go wrong. Real UCI race footage. Some videos are structured workouts, others are loose and mimic racing.



The Rat Snake:
A Tribute Race at Gilbert Lake State Park, Laurens, NY May 16 2015
Follow the Rat Snake on Twitter
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