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Retro TT stuff
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The Chrissie article got me to looking more at old technology. Funny how some of this technology (like fairings behind the headtube) were prevalent over 20 yrs ago but then disappeared.

The aerobars are obvious, but look at the fork---looks a lot like an Argos

http://www.flickr.com/...9/in/pool-648649@N22


http://www.flickr.com/...1/in/pool-648649@N22


http://www.flickr.com/.../in/pool-648649@N22/



http://www.flickr.com/...9/in/pool-648649@N22

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Ah you have to love the PRE ITU BS.

Bikes were so much better to look at back in the day.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I think this is 1998:
Quintana Roo Redstone

1 Reviews
3 Quick Ratings
4.50 of 5

Rate it! 1 - worst 2 3 4 5 - best 1 2 3 4 5 Rating Distribution new Array(0,0,1,0,3);
Description
Redstone (#7005 aluminum) Aero-shaped carbon-fiber gussets. >QR's tri geometry including 78" seat tube angle >Carbon-fiber gusset >Carbon stabilizer diminishing rear triangle flex >TIG welded of ...
Last edited by: Old Scratch: Jan 11, 10 14:12
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Old Scratch] [ In reply to ]
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If I have the time to work with carbon at home, I would do something similar with my P2K frame.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Retro TT stuff [BMAN] [ In reply to ]
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One more:[/img]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Old Scratch] [ In reply to ]
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Funny to me that this bike looks so crazy-cool-custom, and then generic Profile extensions that dont match the red/white/blue paint. Check out the aero cranks.



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Love that front wheel..that is awesome

----------------------------------------------------
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [djciii] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:


Love that front wheel..that is awesome

Scirocco's



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Jeremy

I actually have a road version of the Cinelli Laser that you picture. Its a dual disc with a 650 in the front. Right now it is geared with a 54 big ring and a straight block 11-15. Only time I ever had it in the big gear is down hill. Scared the **** out of me ! Passing cars with nothing in front of you !!

DB
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Those Corima aerobars are hideous.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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That nice couple in the first pic very certainly ahead of their time.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Funny to me that this bike looks so crazy-cool-custom, and then generic Profile extensions that dont match the red/white/blue paint. Check out the aero cranks.


These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?


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Re: Retro TT stuff [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Funny to me that this bike looks so crazy-cool-custom, and then generic Profile extensions that dont match the red/white/blue paint. Check out the aero cranks.



These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?

Totally agree. Maybe Bio_McGeek or Andy can shed some light....

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Re: Retro TT stuff [Old Scratch] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
One more:[/img]

This Max Lelli
(which I think is a Chinese TT bike re-badged---though that's the subject of another thread) looks a lot like that Redstone.

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:

These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?


Totally agree. Maybe Bio_McGeek or Andy can shed some light....

I can think of about two or three reasons...

:D

g


greg
www.wattagetraining.com
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Two words: Chet Kyle. When EDS started what eventually became Project 96 we were going in the direction of the Zipp 2001. We were in conversation with Andy Ording at Zipp about having custom versions made. Also, had various prototypes made in steel by Dan Wynn. There was a guy from the San Diego area who was making extremely stiff custom carbon bean bikes (made one for Arron Hartwell) and these ideas were all on the table. When Chet got involved in the project all he wanted to do was build this bike, which was essentially a slightly updated version of a prototype for 1986 or so. You can find pics of the original moc-up in one of the old Cycling Science articles. No amount of wind tunnel data would convince him that there were better designs.
Chet also would not entertain ideas regarding changes in rider position. No steep seat tubes even though it was legal then. Also, we knew about the superman position but Chet and Ed Burke would not give it a chance. Superman position was a well kept cycling secret but one of the engineers at GM, a guy named Bill Surber found a picture of superman position being tested in an Italian language aerodynamics journal. I still have the xeroxed picture he gave me in a box somewhere. Could we try it with the US cyclists? No way.

Cheers,

Jim


In Reply To:
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Funny to me that this bike looks so crazy-cool-custom, and then generic Profile extensions that dont match the red/white/blue paint. Check out the aero cranks.



These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?


Totally agree. Maybe Bio_McGeek or Andy can shed some light....
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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lets you have a front wheel 'cutout'

frees up head tube shaping options, and that is the most important bit on the w hole bike

top tubes do still add drag, even on a velodrome, yaw isn't 0 the whole time there either

In Reply To:
These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Last edited by: BMAN: Jan 11, 10 16:53
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Two words: Chet Kyle. When EDS started what eventually became Project 96 we were going in the direction of the Zipp 2001. We were in conversation with Andy Ording at Zipp about having custom versions made. Also, had various prototypes made in steel by Dan Wynn. There was a guy from the San Diego area who was making extremely stiff custom carbon bean bikes (made one for Arron Hartwell) and these ideas were all on the table. When Chet got involved in the project all he wanted to do was build this bike, which was essentially a slightly updated version of a prototype for 1986 or so. You can find pics of the original moc-up in one of the old Cycling Science articles. No amount of wind tunnel data would convince him that there were better designs.
Chet also would not entertain ideas regarding changes in rider position. No steep seat tubes even though it was legal then. Also, we knew about the superman position but Chet and Ed Burke would not give it a chance. Superman position was a well kept cycling secret but one of the engineers at GM, a guy named Bill Surber found a picture of superman position being tested in an Italian language aerodynamics journal. I still have the xeroxed picture he gave me in a box somewhere. Could we try it with the US cyclists? No way.

Cheers,

Jim

Awesome! Thanks for the personal insight thats really cool.

Just saw you can purchase all of the Cycling Science articles on CD shipped from Mr. Kyle himself. I think I'm going to go order it.

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Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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Didnt a few of those get stolen from a hotel hallway never to be seen again? Lon Haldeman had some one off WAY back in the day that had some weird ass brand on it but seemed to be about identical to the GT (then the Zipp came out...blah blah blah..)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Lon Haldeman


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Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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I prefer to remember Lon on his Kestrel 4000 thanks ;-) (Oh, with a bungee cord from his hemet to the back of his seat)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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My all time favorite. Check out the depth of the blades on the fork. Apparently, this is not the exact bike Boardman rode.


http://www.flickr.com/.../4012704666/sizes/o/

The other side:

http://www.flickr.com/.../3597376510/sizes/l/


http://www.flickr.com/.../3912239447/sizes/l/

The road production version is a little different:


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Last edited by: jeremyb: Jan 11, 10 18:57
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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1984 Olympic team bike


http://www.firstflightbikes.com/olympic.htm



From People magazine
August 06, 1984 Vol. 22 No. 6
http://www.people.com/.../0,,20088394,00.html

Maybe It Looks Funny, but Chester Kyle's New Olympic Bike Could Turn Out a Winner

"It's the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel," exults U.S. Olympic bike racer Roy Knickman, 19. "No other country will have anything to compete with it." The U.S. team calls it the "funny bike," but the new machine's performance is no joke. Pared to streamlined perfection the U.S. team's super-cycle may well help it ride off with a clutch of medals in the team and individual pursuit and 100-km team time trials at the L.A. Games. If it does, it will be partly with thanks to the aerodynamic wizardry of Chester Kyle, 55, the engineer and inventor who oversaw the bike's bizarre design. Deadpans Kyle, "So far it hasn't slowed them down any."

A professor of biomechanical engineering at Cal State Long Beach, Kyle has been pushing the speed limit for bicycles since 1973, when he first demonstrated that some 80 percent of a rider's energy goes into fighting wind resistance. His present generation of bikes, costing up to $20,000 apiece, were created by his six-man design team to weigh as little as 11 pounds. The frame tubing is made from a super-light alloy, cast teardrop-shaped with blunt end forward to slip through the air. All holes, which create drag by stirring up turbulence, were plugged or smoothed over. Spoked wheels can be replaced with plastic Kevlar disks.

Racers will wear Kyle's skintight suit, and the whole rig will be topped off with a swept-back helmet that makes the rider look—and fly—"like a missile," says Kyle. "Theoretically in a four-and-a-half-minute race," he adds, "the bicycle with the helmet, shoes and suit could save 11 or 12 seconds." In races where fractions of a second usually determine victory, that's a big margin.

The bike's unusually small, 24-inch diameter wheels also help. For example, in the team pursuit (a high-speed chase around the cycling track in which opposing four-man teams race over 4,000 meters) the tighter wheels allow riders to stay closer to one another and better use the leader's slipstream. "I don't think the bikes are intrinsically faster," says racer Brent Emery, 26, "but they allow you to sit closer and recuperate faster. The faster you recuperate, the faster you ride when you lead the pace line again." Steve Hegg, 21, a dark horse in the 4,000-meter individual pursuit, is more enthusiastic. "The bike's a big improvement," he says, "and Kyle's skintight suit is great."

A cyclist himself, Kyle founded the International Human Powered Vehicle Association, which sponsors an HPV race each year at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. "At first it was a joke," he says. "Now, with the energy shortage and the Olympics, people aren't laughing anymore." Indeed the speediest HPVs—low-riding, three-wheeled, streamlined pods called Vectors—have exceeded 60 mph on sheer pedal power. But the technological edge alone won't win races. Says Steve Hegg, "It's still the team riders that count in winning medals."

Original article:
http://www.scribd.com/.../Chet-Kyle-1984-Bike

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Last edited by: jeremyb: Jan 11, 10 19:47
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Can you however tell us who made the frames?


(Oh, I know I know I know!)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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And the Trimble...lets not forget the Trimble...so much for the P3C being "cutting edge"...



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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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Yep Trimble was cool



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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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Serotta?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I am pretty sure that Trimble made the first commercially available behind the seat bottle launcher.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [running2far] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Serotta?

I dont know the answer, but thats not a bad guess:


http://www.nycvelo.com/images/arc_nahbs5.jpg

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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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serotta was most certainly the frame builder for those huffy bikes.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [IRONwolf] [ In reply to ]
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I would not be so sure about that......Ben was there and did allot of work, there was however a guy that flew in from 3Rensho :-)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Last edited by: R10C: Jan 11, 10 20:32
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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ok well, maybe I spoke too soon. serotta made the huffy bikes for the 7-11 team, so I assumed that they made that one too.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [IRONwolf] [ In reply to ]
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No no, you are correct...but Yamagucci did most of the metal work. After there was a sort of falling out and each went their own way. Koichi started making some really wild stuff and ended up as the frame builder for many "Brand" name bikes that had labels from Huffy to Murray and Schwinn.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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interesting, I didnt know that. some good trivia knowledge.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [IRONwolf] [ In reply to ]
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Shall we bring up Tom Kellogg? He had more labels on his bikes than anyone I think


http://www.spectrum-cycles.com/1.htm

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I would not be so sure about that......Ben was there and did allot of work, there was however a guy that flew in from 3Rensho :-)

The scans of an article here, say that Mike Melton built it at the Huffy "Tech Center".

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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1996 Sports Illustrated article on Project 96 with some bike pjorn



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I was off by one Olympics...maybe. Did you notice that the bikes in the images have Raleigh? When I was at OTC Springs (1990-91) I had the chance to hang out with Koichi and spent some time in his workshop. At that time he had a few of the bikes from the (at that time recent) past there.


Quote:
Koichi began working with the US Cycling Federation as National Team Mechanic in 1988, and, in 1989, he began making prototype frames for the US National Team and became the lone official framebuilder of the United States Olympic Cycling Team.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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keep it coming- old tri stuff too!
Here is what I want pictures of:
1. 88 and 92 olympic ttt bikes
2. Kenny Souza bikes- Nishiki Linear, Haral
3. Mark Allen bikes
4. Aerolite bikes
5. Joel Thompsons 24 inch wheel Holland with the multi color paint and custom aero bars
6. Hamilton 24 inch wheel bikes with the Hamilton 3 spoke wheel
7. 1st generation QR superforms- the excel steel ones with splatter paint. Extra points for the Ray Browning prototype one. Triple extra points if John Gailson was riding on it with the "jesus is lord" sign swinging on the toptube at Desert Princess.
8. Any cool/wild looking aerobars- like some of the stuff Tinley would rock
9. Hookers
10. Anything that Kent Bostick rode
11. Aerosports parts
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Re: Retro TT stuff [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
5. Joel Thompsons 24 inch wheel Holland with the multi color paint and custom aero bars
6. Hamilton 24 inch wheel bikes with the Hamilton 3 spoke wheel

HUGE bonus points for anyone who can post of pic of Nick Taylor on his 24" wheel Sommer.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
keep it coming- old tri stuff too!
Here is what I want pictures of:

9. Hookers

just kind of slipped that one in there, didn't you? (I know, I know)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
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Wasnt Kenny on the Nishiki NFS Alpha (NFS Beta was lower end). Tinley was on Scott DH, 100k and Extreme bars. Kent Bostic was on a Hooker was he not?


Splatter paint...GT baby!

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
keep it coming- old tri stuff too!
Here is what I want pictures of:
1. 88 and 92 olympic ttt bikes

1988 Olympic Bike taken from First Flight website there is a scanned article there for a good read written by Chet Kyle. Check out those handlebars. Makes the Hed Black Dogs less revolutionary.







The lotus came out in 1992.

Looks like Yamaguchi made the TT bike in 1992:



I'd put my money on the 88 bike.

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Moser on a 42 inch rear and 24" front



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure what this is, but its cool. (edit: Lotus Track frame??) Found it on the web at one point, now its in my TT folder in iPhoto.





My hope is that someone (or some company) will become inspired and grow the balls to make some TT bikes for the rest of us not bound by the UCI. I'll do the marketing. We can chat offline :)

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Last edited by: jeremyb: Jan 11, 10 21:47
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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You can see one of these Project '96 bikes at: Rocky Mounts just off of Spruce St. in Boulder, Colorado. They have one in the lobby/window.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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One obvious difference between the road and track versions is the fork... ;-)
If you use the track back on the road, make sure you only turn left...
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Fraussie] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
One obvious difference between the road and track versions is the fork... ;-)
If you use the track back on the road, make sure you only turn left...

I dont know Cannondale seemed to figure it out



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Not sure what this is, but its cool. (edit: Lotus Track frame??) Found it on the web at one point, now its in my TT folder in iPhoto.





My hope is that someone (or some company) will become inspired and grow the balls to make some TT bikes for the rest of us not bound by the UCI. I'll do the marketing. We can chat offline :)

I'll drink to that.

That frame is a Lotus track bike for sure...the original Boardman model not the 110 sport re-mold version with two chainstays (bet you didn't notice there was only one chainstay...) & two forkblades. hotness.

The only bad part of that photo is that the BEAUTIFUL frame, rare fork, unique paintjob, aero crank, proprietary bars......and they mount it wwith a rear-training-wheel + mylar cover. It's blasphemous.


----------------------------------------------------------------

My training
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Hmmm...I don't know a lot of MTBs with bladed carbon forks though.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Fraussie] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Hmmm...I don't know a lot of MTBs with bladed carbon forks though.

Why would that matter?

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not a material engineer. I would assume that with a bladed fork, the lateral constraints could be too high.
That said...


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Re: Retro TT stuff [Fraussie] [ In reply to ]
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Alf Engers. Alf dominated the sport in the UK in the 1970s. He was the man to beat at 25 miles. In 1978, he set a sub 50 minute time for 25 miles – 49.24, before tri bars and disc wheels.
Read more: http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/...hotos/#ixzz0cO8O0Z9l

-------------------------------
´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Post: Not sure what this is, but its cool. (edit: Lotus Track frame??) Found it on the web at one point, now its in my TT folder in iPhoto.





My hope is that someone (or some company) will become inspired and grow the balls to make some TT bikes for the rest of us not bound by the UCI. I'll do the marketing. We can chat offline :)

jeremy
Plus One Lap Cyclocross

Looks alot like a Mike burrows bike that was made for Olano's attack on the hour record in the end he didnt try for it think he did some tests and couldnt get the numbers!

M@TTY
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Boardman











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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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of course nevermind that the trimble there is just aero looking and not actually engineered. the top tube for instance is slowing it down.

which is a shame because the rest of it looks really nice!


In Reply To:
And the Trimble...lets not forget the Trimble...so much for the P3C being "cutting edge"...



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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that is gorgeous!

i want that!

In Reply To:

1988 Olympic Bike taken from First Flight website there is a scanned article there for a good read written by Chet Kyle. Check out those handlebars. Makes the Hed Black Dogs less revolutionary.







The lotus came out in 1992.

Looks like Yamaguchi made the TT bike in 1992:



I'd put my money on the 88 bike.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Barchettaman] [ In reply to ]
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god damn that is impressive.
before epo and shit too
his position is spot on, and its a pretty low drag 'helmet' there too
In Reply To:


Alf Engers. Alf dominated the sport in the UK in the 1970s. He was the man to beat at 25 miles. In 1978, he set a sub 50 minute time for 25 miles – 49.24, before tri bars and disc wheels.
Read more: http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/...hotos/#ixzz0cO8O0Z9l



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Can't believe no one has posted this yet:






#######
My Blog
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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+1 on the all time fav Lotus

giant made something in 1992 MCR 1





1997 cheetah CAT ala natascha badmann although she had more aero brake levers

The risk of fractures is decreased by the additional inclusion of Kevlar in the laminary layers
Frame, X-Fork, Wheels Carbon - Kevlar Average weight of Cheetah normally 8000g - 8300 g depending on components Weight of frame approx.. 1300 g Weight rear wheel 650C 1020 g inc. freewheel Weight front wheel 650C 880 g Wheel base 1020 mm Bottom bracket- rear axle 400 mm Frame sizes 45 - 64 cm Steering head angle 72 deg. Seat tube angle
78 deg.








1987












hotta bike



pearson



graeme pearson was racing bikes like this PEARSON VENOM in ironman and duathlon about 15 years ago.. he made them himself



1986


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Re: Retro TT stuff [sub-3-dad] [ In reply to ]
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someone posted this the other day - I forget who but if you missed it here is the first part (of 8 they link continuously on youtube) of a rare channel four (UK) documentary on Obree and Boardman. It's one of the best hours I've spent recently - check out the state of Obree's frame in the early backyard training scenes.

http://www.youtube.com/...35B05634&index=0



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Funny to me that this bike looks so crazy-cool-custom, and then generic Profile extensions that dont match the red/white/blue paint. Check out the aero cranks.



These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?


We've got a couple of the old superbikes here in the offce. The super narrow BB on these meant that the top tube would certianly interfere with pedalling among other reasons. I'm betting BB stiffness was another consideration.

Dave Koesel - Category Leader Roval, Power, On-bike Components
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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Some pics of the Bursford bike:



and with a bigger chainring :)





There are a few others of this bike in the album:

http://s29.photobucket.com/...20Cycle%20Show%2009/

Some other interesting ones too - particularly the Shiv.

Nick
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Don't forget the Hooker......I mean, who doesn't love a good hooker, right?



especially when they come with a retro website link too...
http://www.slowtwitch.com/.../hookers/hooker.html


jager
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]
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Had a quick look - looks brilliant.

I'll most likely watch it after swim training; I could be staying up pretty late tonight!

/Thanks for posting.


#######
My Blog
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [paul_tx] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
That nice couple in the first pic very certainly ahead of their time.


From the movie Brokeback Timetrial?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone ever have one of these? Neither of these pics are mine but I had one just like it with a pair of Scott clipons. I'll try and dig up an old picture of my set-up (pre-digital days).





I believe it was a re-branded Nishiki. I bought one in 1986 when I was in H.S. and just getting into triathlon. The front 24" wheel was a little difficult to get tubulars for as there wasn't much of a selection. I sold it when I was in college and wish I still had it.

Formerly DrD
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Barchettaman] [ In reply to ]
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This link turned up on the NorCal District email distribution list - the 1964 San Gregorio Time Trial. I wonder what these guys would think about time trialing these days - real racers don't need no stinkin' pointy helmets . Some of them could certainly be still racing but I don't recognize any of the names.

http://www.velovecchio.com/sangregtt/sgtt.html
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Does this thing have an integrated stem/headtube dealy like the Trek Speed?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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My first triathlon was the 1988 Bud Light USTS series event in Miami. I scanned a couple of pictures from that event. The first is Mike Pigg coming to the end of bike with the Scott DH bars and his Pigg Power Disc wheel:




Then me in T2 with a shot of some of the bikes:


Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [hblake] [ In reply to ]
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Fun to see at least a couple of UNI disc covers. I remember rockin a bright green UNI cover with Profile Aero 1s with bright green taps on my bright green Norco Victory Tri-A. That was the eighties in a nutshell.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Two words: Chet Kyle. When EDS started what eventually became Project 96 we were going in the direction of the Zipp 2001. We were in conversation with Andy Ording at Zipp about having custom versions made. Also, had various prototypes made in steel by Dan Wynn. There was a guy from the San Diego area who was making extremely stiff custom carbon bean bikes (made one for Arron Hartwell) and these ideas were all on the table. When Chet got involved in the project all he wanted to do was build this bike, which was essentially a slightly updated version of a prototype for 1986 or so. You can find pics of the original moc-up in one of the old Cycling Science articles. No amount of wind tunnel data would convince him that there were better designs.
Chet also would not entertain ideas regarding changes in rider position. No steep seat tubes even though it was legal then. Also, we knew about the superman position but Chet and Ed Burke would not give it a chance. Superman position was a well kept cycling secret but one of the engineers at GM, a guy named Bill Surber found a picture of superman position being tested in an Italian language aerodynamics journal. I still have the xeroxed picture he gave me in a box somewhere. Could we try it with the US cyclists? No way.

Cheers,

Jim
In Reply To:

Great stories in this thread. As someone who wasn't around to see this progression and early ideas, this is all very fascinating. Question about this story though. Why did Kyle, refuse to accept the data, that showed it wasn't the best design? Did he has a personal agenda to push the frame?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [DrD] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Anyone ever have one of these?

I did.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Got some pics?

Formerly DrD
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Re: Retro TT stuff [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
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What about a pic of Paula Newby-Fraser on her bike with small wheels

Robbie
Director of Coaching
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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
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Bostick pics, back when he was on the Hooker - 1999 TN District TT:

Photos by Bill Parsons (http://www.sceniccityvelo.com)







2005 TN District TT

Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [robbie] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ge_IMH_Winners05.jpg



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]
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We haven't had enough photos of people on tricycles smoking pipes yet. So I'm going to remedy that:



Norman Maggs, 24hr TT

-------------------------------
´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [gfzyriek] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Bostick pics, back when he was on the Hooker - 1999 TN District TT:

Photos by Bill Parsons (http://www.sceniccityvelo.com)







2005 TN District TT



It is amazing how much easier it is to get down in that good aero position with a smaller front wheel..........has anyone ever raced (in this forum) with a 650 up front and a 700 in the back??

----------------------------------------------------
Don't let great ambitions overshadow small successes
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.
52races12months.wordpress.com
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [djciii] [ In reply to ]
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The other thing I love about that Hooker Elite is Kent basically has no base bar, a single chainring (I think it was a 56t), and a brake lever on the aerobar. I'm not even sure he could fit 2 levers on the base bar.
When he rode the Hooker, I started behind him in a 10-mile TT that had a big climb in the middle (small ring for me) and I thought he had lost his mind-- then he commenced to beating everyone. He is just a mound of horsepower.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [gfzyriek] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Here are a few more ("stolen" from an eBay auction)









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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [djciii] [ In reply to ]
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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, a real Roval front wheel....them were the days...

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [hblake] [ In reply to ]
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yes but the hooker (and other funny bikes in this thread) were designed to have a smaller front wheel. It's really not the same as putting a 650 on the front of 700c bike

edit: sorry I thought you were replying to a different post. My bad.



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
Last edited by: luckyleese: Jan 12, 10 14:06
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Re: Retro TT stuff [spirogeek] [ In reply to ]
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I think I still have a black UNI cover in my basement.
Last edited by: Johnny99: Jan 12, 10 15:28
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
   
While looking through the rest of my photos I came across this picture of one of the Puntous twins in T1 along side her nor frills bike (#107). The twin is sitting on the ground wearing the red and white one piece tri suit:






Also riding the bike in transition.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [hblake] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

While looking through the rest of my photos I came across this picture of one of the Puntous twins in T1 along side her nor frills bike (#107). The twin is sitting on the ground wearing the red and white one piece tri suit:






Also riding the bike in transition.

Although she does have what looks like a Cinelli aero helmet





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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [djciii] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
has anyone ever raced (in this forum) with a 650 up front and a 700 in the back??


As I described in another recent thread, back in the day I converted my dual 700C Hooker Cat. 1 road bike into a 650C/700C TT bike by retrofitting it with one of their forks.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [djciii] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone know if TN still uses this course for districts? It is/was laser measured 40k and super fast. I think Bostic has gone under 49 there on a few occasions. I did it about 15 years ago and except for one tiny little rise around 20k it is pretty much dead flat with smooth pavement.

Bostic is an interesting character. Super fast, but to talk with him you would swear he was mentally challenged. The strange thing is that he's super smart and I think he's a hydro-electric engineer. Did a lot of contract work for TVA.

One of my favorite Bostic quotes, " Uh.. Have you ever gone so hard that you can taste metal in your mouth?" He went to give an explanation why that happens.. You could always tell when he was going to attack too... You would hear clunk, clunk, clunk as he shifted into the 11 and then a grunt and then the sound of his deep carbon wheels spinning up to speed. If you missed a Bostic attack you just weren't paying attention. The trick was holding his wheel at 50+kph and then trying to pull through to make the move stick.. uugh.. Great guy though.



Heath Dotson
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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Anyone know if TN still uses this course for districts? It is/was laser measured 40k and super fast.


I've often wondered the same thing, as Bostick's 45+ and Hines' 30+ U.S. TT records are the only 40 km marks not set in Moriarty:

45+ 49:57.98 Kent Bostick, Dunlap, TN, 6/6/99

30+ 52:50.23 Phyllis Hines, Dunlap, TN 6/11/95
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [gfzyriek] [ In reply to ]
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Kent passed me in this race in 1999 riding that bike. That thing was loud, and he was an animal. I remember watching him put that bike together a few times over the years before time trials. It fit in a little bag when it was all taken apart.


---------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Course is no longer used. There were several problems with drivers on the course, had a couple of people hit a couple of different years. The race has moved around a bit since leaving the Sequatchie Valley (that is the one listed as Dunlap, TN). That course was supposedly surveyed several different ways, and was at least very close if not dead on 40k.

That course was incredibly fast. There is as another poster pointed out one very slight rise, other than that, it is basically board flat. There is slight elevation gain to the turn around, so you get to ride "downhill" all the way home, also usually a slight tailwind on the way back (you had to ride into it on the way out, but I never noticed it til the turnaround).

It is really a shame the race can't move back there. but the locals in the area (I ride through that valley a lot) are not very friendly toward cyclists.

It is a beautiful spot, and there is a large century ride there in the fall that is usually timed to coincide with the fall colors, a great ride to check out.

http://www.chattbike.com

I live just on the other side of the mountain from that old course, it is basically Chattanooga, TN.


---------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [bikescott] [ In reply to ]
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Was going to say that is in the middle of BFE. The driver issues is not surprising, but the road is almost 4 lanes wide even though it is only marked for two. The paint lines on the road were thick and fast if you could ride on them. The last time I rode there was maybe in 91 (1st year Sr.) I can't remember. But I know I rode just under 55 on a road bike with clips,j-disc and more or less standard front wheel (30m rim with 24 blades). I also remember Hines smoking a bunch of men when she came out and I was still a Jr. (She would have smoked me too!) It would be nice to try to get on the course again.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp May 8-9, 2019 A2 Wind Tunnel
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [djciii] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Bostick pics, back when he was on the Hooker - 1999 TN District TT:

Photos by Bill Parsons (http://www.sceniccityvelo.com)







2005 TN District TT



It is amazing how much easier it is to get down in that good aero position with a smaller front wheel..........has anyone ever raced (in this forum) with a 650 up front and a 700 in the back??


Yes, originally with a 24" front, back when they were legal. I only went to 700c front and rear when UCI changed the rules. Tried 650s front and rear immediately after the rule change--but ended up switching to 700c for convenience. Was much easier to get a good position with the 24" front, for me--and I was able to use a front disc in almost all of my races. I'd still run 24" in the front, if I could get a decent modern frame in this config for non-UCI restrained events.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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There were a lot of fast racers on that course at one time or another! My fastest 40k time is there as well, just under an hour, road bike with clip ons and Spinergy RevX wheels (how is that for old school).

The road is wide, the vehicle encounters were intentional on the part of the drivers.

I have had some interesting experiences riding through there over the years. Still love riding there though, great climb over the mountain from Chattanooga, beautiful little valley to ride down, and then you can take a little tar and chip road back through the river gorge, or you can climb several tiny steep roads out of the valley to get back to Chattanooga. I love it, even with the rednecks.


---------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [djciii] [ In reply to ]
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You can probably get that low with a current bike. But it is doubtful that you could get that position. I am sure it is not even close to UCI legal- bars look way more than 80cm and are angled up.
Wonder what effective seat angle he is riding?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
His 6 o'clock knee is even forward of the pedal spindle!
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
His 6 o'clock knee is even forward of the pedal spindle!

It looks to be on the P3 as well...and if you look at one of my profile photos, I'm not sure if that's such an unusual thing anyway...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Bump and, don't know if mine are considered retro or not: ( still race and ride 2 of them)






Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [yaquaman1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sugino retro time trial crankset. Can be had for only $500, ridiculous.







Although, this looks as aero as my FSA Kronos that came out over 10 yrs later.

Australian Superbike-----looks a lot like a track Lotus with a non aero seatpost. Fork looks identical.



so small--modolo kronos




larger version here: http://www.flickr.com/.../3516607781/sizes/l/

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dave let me know when you guys are ready to let those Superbikes go,they would be a nice addition to my retro collection. I am almost finished with the frame i got from you a few years back.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Anyone know if TN still uses this course for districts? It is/was laser measured 40k and super fast.


I've often wondered the same thing, as Bostick's 45+ and Hines' 30+ U.S. TT records are the only 40 km marks not set in Moriarty:

45+ 49:57.98 Kent Bostick, Dunlap, TN, 6/6/99

30+ 52:50.23 Phyllis Hines, Dunlap, TN 6/11/95


The 30+ Master's record is 52:50? Really?

Dave Koesel - Category Leader Roval, Power, On-bike Components
https://rovalcomponents.com/
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yep (for ladies)

40 km

30+ 52:50.23 Phyllis Hines, Dunlap, TN 6/11/95
35+ 53:01.99 Vickie Marlatt, Moriarty, NM, 8/31/97
40+ 53:01.99 Vickie Marlatt, Moriarty, NM, 8/31/97
45+ 57:01.43 Julie Kaplan, Moriarty, NM, 9/6/98
50+ 59:01.12 Irene Asher, Moriarty, NM, 9/3/95





"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply


Intertech Discet

Hard plastic sides bonded to a tubie. Vintage, I don't remember? Late eighties? Obviously used a freewheel...I'm thinking of building up a retro TT ride.
Last edited by: dave_w: Jan 14, 10 17:31
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
One of my favorite slowtwitch geek threads!

http://www.marcosapenedoamaral.blogspot.com
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Two words: Chet Kyle. When EDS started what eventually became Project 96 we were going in the direction of the Zipp 2001. We were in conversation with Andy Ording at Zipp about having custom versions made. Also, had various prototypes made in steel by Dan Wynn. There was a guy from the San Diego area who was making extremely stiff custom carbon bean bikes (made one for Arron Hartwell) and these ideas were all on the table. When Chet got involved in the project all he wanted to do was build this bike, which was essentially a slightly updated version of a prototype for 1986 or so. You can find pics of the original moc-up in one of the old Cycling Science articles. No amount of wind tunnel data would convince him that there were better designs.
Chet also would not entertain ideas regarding changes in rider position. No steep seat tubes even though it was legal then. Also, we knew about the superman position but Chet and Ed Burke would not give it a chance. Superman position was a well kept cycling secret but one of the engineers at GM, a guy named Bill Surber found a picture of superman position being tested in an Italian language aerodynamics journal. I still have the xeroxed picture he gave me in a box somewhere. Could we try it with the US cyclists? No way.

Cheers,

Jim

I just got my Cycling Science archive CD. Is this it?





Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No, that is one of the '96 bikes. Go way back to the first few issues and you'll see the original. If I recall correctly you will see Dave Grylls or Steve Hegg sitting on the bike.

Cheers,

Jim
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The original mock up was a beam bike?

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
The original mock up was a beam bike?

The bike in the image you just showed was an early product of project 96. It was an aluminum frame bike welded up by Forrest Yelverton of GT. He's a very cool guy with a masters in metallurgical engineering if I recall correctly. Anyway, if you go way back in the archives of Cycling Science, you will find an article with prototype bikes from (I think) 1986. One of those looks a lot like the '96 bike.

In your comment above are you saying there was a beam bike in that article? If so, please post.

Cheers,

Jim
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There's these???



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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
YES! The one on the lower right is clearly an early version of what ended up being the 96 Olympic bike. Note in the figure caption he says it was not as aero as the other prototype. Interestingly the one in the upper right looks a lot like a Lotus. These prototypes were built by Don Guichard who's day job was building composite structures for satellites. He now works for Cervelo. I believe he was involved in the final 96 bikes as well.

Cheers,

Jim
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
YES! The one on the lower right is clearly an early version of what ended up being the 96 Olympic bike. Note in the figure caption he says it was not as aero as the other prototype. Interestingly the one in the upper right looks a lot like a Lotus. These prototypes were built by Don Guichard who's day job was building composite structures for satellites. He now works for Cervelo. I believe he was involved in the final 96 bikes as well.

Cheers,

Jim

Yes totally. Thanks for the history lesson, much appreciated.

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [djciii] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:

It is amazing how much easier it is to get down in that good aero position with a smaller front wheel..........has anyone ever raced (in this forum) with a 650 up front and a 700 in the back??



Joe Bonness, back when dinosaurs roamed...


Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:

I just got my Cycling Science archive CD. Is this it?






That bike made me want a GT Vengeance sooooo bad when I was in middle school. To this day i still want a GT Vengeance.


Last edited by: cabdoctor: Jan 16, 10 19:13
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There are two on ebay right now:

one

two

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You are awesome my man! I just wish they were my size, I ride a 52cm road bike.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
From my picture archives....
Sorry about the spacers...no knowledge of bike fit then.
...just after Lemond's 86'tour...had it for five years, first edition Scott's & Unidisc.

Slingshot in '89...Tim Deboom & Michael Tobin were winning on this...

Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [campled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That Slingshot seems like it would be fast with a wire for a downtube until you see this:



Airfoil can be 10 times wider than the wire and have equal drag.

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [campled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That Slingshot is cool. This may be one of the best threads on here.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hello jeremyb and All,

Man do those bikes look nice!!

Cheers,

Neal

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Jeremy CX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So how are there no Zipp's on here??? (I stole many of these from Slowtwitch posts, if you would like me to remove your bike please let me know)











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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:




Zipp frame, Zipp bars, Zipp cranks, and.............HED WHEELS?!?!?! WTH?!
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Anyone that likes this old stuff, I would recommend the Cycling Science Archive DVD. Not as much bike pjorn but fun stuff like this (taken from the what's new column):



This is from Sports Illustrated (January 1990):



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/...MAG1069309/index.htm

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hello jeremyb and All,

What I am struck by is the 'they have been there and done that' ..... a long time ago.

Hard to invent something new.

And the old saw "there is nothing new under the sun".

Thanks for the reference.

Cheers,

Neal

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If this has got you all interested why not pop over to http://www.retrobike.co.uk/ for more retro lusting . .
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
2 questions ...

does anyone remember who made those on the fly adjustable seatposts .. springloaded horizontal fore/aft rail with a lever mounted on the handlebars, around in the 90s in triathlon ?


does anyone know what was up with paula newby frasers crank set in kona 96 ? the rings looked huge and the BB was very high and it looked like there were rotating crank extenension arms between the pedal and crank. i couldnt find a pic and didnt see anyone else ever use something like that ... does anyone know what they were ?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
2 questions ...

does anyone remember who made those on the fly adjustable seatposts .. springloaded horizontal fore/aft rail with a lever mounted on the handlebars, around in the 90s in triathlon ?

seat shifter

does anyone know what was up with paula newby frasers crank set in kona 96 ? the rings looked huge and the BB was very high and it looked like there were rotating crank extenension arms between the pedal and crank. i couldnt find a pic and didnt see anyone else ever use something like that ... does anyone know what they were ?


Sounds like Rotor Cranks. Not sure because I did not pay tri much attn in the 90's.
Last edited by: dave_w: Jan 17, 10 7:18
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There's a link to the photo you're talking about above but here it is:



You can see the effect of the cranks on both feet - there's a distinct dog-leg between the amin crank and the peddle. I asked the same q their purpose a while back and was informed the idea was to put the ball of the foot nearer the peddle spindle like SMP pedals are supposed to do now but in a more pronounced way. One of the downsides was a big increase in Q factor (3cm or so). I think the rings were so huge just to compesate for the wheels being so small



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
  Okay, not TT stuff

Imagine my surprise when I showed up to do my first tri in many years in 2001, only to find that of about 180 guys in my wave, all but a couple who were sans wetsuit were in the black slippery suits more like today's. I truly looked "special", and my 45ish minute 1.2 mile swim confirmed it.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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aaah seat shifter indeed...now my mind can stop chasing its own tail in circles between swift shift and grip shift...thanks !

http://i32.tinypic.com/23ll68.jpg
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Re: Retro TT stuff [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]
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thanks ... thats the setup alright ... doesnt it look like it moves your foot a couple of inches away from the spindle and not closer ? maybe it allows the BB to be higher without changing your leg extension
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Jan 17, 10 7:39
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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thats awesome

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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think it works on the downstroke but if you have a good pull on the other side then you'd be ahead of the spindle...maybe.

One more question (and it's a crytptic one):

I have some old Kona tapes and on one of them (mid-late 80s) Mark Allen appears to have some sort of bungee going from under his saddle towards his bars. It's a close up so you can't see the whole thing and it doesn't look like the seat shifter mentioned above. If anything it looks a bit like the end of one of those sweat catchers you can buy to go on a trainer but the shot never pans out to show what the 'front' looks like. Any ideas?



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply


Note the Jetstream drinking system!

Edit: The Jetstream system had an inflatable bladder and you had to pump your drink into it. The drinking end had a bite valve and when you bit on it the drink squirted into your mouth. Pain to deal deal with but brilliant during the ride. My old school TT bike is built with internal routing specifically for a Jetstream tube.
Last edited by: Bio_McGeek: Jan 17, 10 8:16
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
I think it works on the downstroke but if you have a good pull on the other side then you'd be ahead of the spindle...maybe.

One more question (and it's a crytptic one):

I have some old Kona tapes and on one of them (mid-late 80s) Mark Allen appears to have some sort of bungee going from under his saddle towards his bars. It's a close up so you can't see the whole thing and it doesn't look like the seat shifter mentioned above. If anything it looks a bit like the end of one of those sweat catchers you can buy to go on a trainer but the shot never pans out to show what the 'front' looks like. Any ideas?

I think Mark tried a strap that held his hips to the saddle to get more leverage/torque, could this be it???

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
yeah, the seat leash (a steve hed invention) for leverage like in a recumbent bike ... there were also behind the seat drink bottle systems with a padded vertical plate to push off

http://community.active.com/...7/Seat-Leash-web.jpg
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Jan 17, 10 8:30
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
yeah, the seat leash ... there were also behind the seat drink bottle systems with a padded vertical plate to push off

http://community.active.com/...7/Seat-Leash-web.jpg

Someone also had some U-shaped bar that rose vertically from the seat that you were supposed to be able to push back against. It was truly a time where tri restarted bicycle innovation, or at least turned it in different directions. Here's a couple other blasts from the past:

Early Trimble behind the seat cage mount, and dt shifter mount for the Scott dh bar.


Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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That's it! I am LOVING this thread



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
this was the same idea behind this saddle (posted earlier in this thread); to push back upon.



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
C-Record with Deltas and Time Racing pedals....wow..

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There's another one on there too, this one is set up 650c front and 700 rear.



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it's in my size to!


Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Gosh I love this thread.








How could a bulbous front wheel like this be faster???? Hooker was doing the opposite and making custom hubs that were ultra-narrow. I assume the other side of this wheel looks identical?

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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I remember when that Moser came out - then Nashbar who at the time had their own house brand of frames tried to copy it with NO success.

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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rolling resistance should be super low on the rear wheel!

In Reply To:
I remember when that Moser came out - then Nashbar who at the time had their own house brand of frames tried to copy it with NO success.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
rolling resistance should be super low on the rear wheel!

...not to mention the enhanced "splitter plate effect" of having that large(r) "plate" behind more of the rider!



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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There was a black hole wheel on ebay about two years ago...it went off for more than I was willing to pay for it; but it would have been way cool...I just remember how the hole kept getting smaller and smaller in the advertizements for it. Here are a couple:





The Bike stream is a pressuriezed drink system that I still have for sale ($30 if anyone wants it). I still have two sets of the bullet brake levers as well...if anyone has a really good project, I would could let you have them really cheap; as I would not use them since I made my own version.

Stephen J


I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)e2
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [stephen J] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
They passed when Peter Reid used to race



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Another, this was 2004. Notice the Hooker front brake too. How many Ironman Pros have done that?


http://www.peterreid.com/photos.htm

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I can only assume 'yes', as I have a custom set that I made which are smaller, have better acutation (IMHO), and have a better profile; and of course are carbon.

Stephen J


I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)e2
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [stephen J] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
I can only assume 'yes', as I have a custom set that I made which are smaller, have better acutation (IMHO), and have a better profile; and of course are carbon.

Stephen J


hook me up!



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply

When Roval use Sun rims?

Ken Nowakowski

ken@probikesltd.com
http://www.probikesltd.com
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Funny to me that this bike looks so crazy-cool-custom, and then generic Profile extensions that dont match the red/white/blue paint. Check out the aero cranks.



These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?


Totally agree. Maybe Bio_McGeek or Andy can shed some light....
Because then you would have had a softride and the engineers wouldn't have looked so smart

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
There's a link to the photo you're talking about above but here it is:



You can see the effect of the cranks on both feet - there's a distinct dog-leg between the amin crank and the peddle. I asked the same q their purpose a while back and was informed the idea was to put the ball of the foot nearer the peddle spindle like SMP pedals are supposed to do now but in a more pronounced way. One of the downsides was a big increase in Q factor (3cm or so). I think the rings were so huge just to compesate for the wheels being so small
I thought the purpose was to effectively shorten the crank when coming over the top but effectively lengthen it when applying power.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
When I first started thinking about it that's what I thought but the explanation I butchered here was from Dan so either I misunderstood him (most likely) or he's got it wrong. On balance I think he's right though - look at her far pedal in the photo - with the crank at 3pm there is virtually no additional length provided by the hinged section.



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Probably like the Vista pedals claim to do today.

http://www.vistadeal.com/En/EtudeBio.php

On a horizontal position, the front crank length has been increased by the value of X : Optimization of the active phase during pedaling.

On a horizontal position, the rear crank length has been decreased by the value of X : Reduced time of return.

Robbie
Director of Coaching
http://www.trisutto.com
https://www.instagram.com/robbie_haywood/
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Doesnt get much sexier than this I doubt it'll actually go for the $3k, though it is beautiful.

Looks like a Hooker fork on there??????



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Re: Retro TT stuff [robbie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not at all, Vista is more like SMp that has its design to offset the lever that is the distance from the center of the bone in the ball of your foot to the center of the pedal spindle. That crank as Frank said was to lower the time it took to recover the pedal stroke and limit how high you had to move your leg to recover before falling back over TDC.

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Another, this was 2004. Notice the Hooker front brake too. How many Ironman Pros have done that?


http://www.peterreid.com/photos.htm

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...;;page=unread#unread

-

The Triathlon Squad

Like us on Facebook!!!
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Paulo Sousa] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Another, this was 2004. Notice the Hooker front brake too. How many Ironman Pros have done that?


http://www.peterreid.com/photos.htm


http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...;;page=unread#unread

I saw that, very cool. You have any more pics? How did you come across it?

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Re: Retro TT stuff [stephen J] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
.... they sound great ... do you have a pic for us ?


Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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I still use them in both USAT and USCF racing, and have never been questioned. Of course most races aren't looking too close, but I did do the duathlon nationals last year, and they have people walking around. Mine are wrapped in stretchy tape to hopefully make them more aero.

Styrrell
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
my contribution ;)










yes....mine ;)

=====================================
S�rgio Marques
When it hurts is when it feels good ;-)
Sergio-Marques.com
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Taken from this thread







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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The beamers....

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Re: Retro TT stuff [sergio] [ In reply to ]
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Holy Hotta! Looks like the top of the steerer on the red one would be in your chest.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [sergio] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think that Pearson beam bike is retro........
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Re: Retro TT stuff [hblake] [ In reply to ]
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Here's a blurry picture of a picture of my Mom in Kona around 1985...



-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, Canyon, Garmin, Gatorade Smith Optics, SpeedFil, OttoLock, ORR Cycling Wheels, BASE Nutrition
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:


That bike made me want a GT Vengeance sooooo bad when I was in middle school. To this day i still want a GT Vengeance.

I had one for years. A little heavy, and a long top tube, but a great bike all around. I finally sold it 6 or so years ago, but still have some of the rare seat posts and NOS Project 96 GT handlebar tape. I did a few IM's on it.

Mine without the Mavic Cosmic Carbone race wheels. I ran a 56/42 front chainrings- had to modify the front derailler braze on a bit to get the front derailler high enough.

And yes, this is a great thread. Anybody remember the old Pigg Power sliding seat posts?



---------------

"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Here is my Bill Holland ti frame with his titanium "monorail" aeorbars. The aerobars attach directly to the front of the stem. I bought this used and when I took it to a bike shop to have it looked over, they told me the monorail had a hairline fracture. I found Holland's address, wrote him and he told me he doesn't make these any more, but send it in and he'd fix it. I did so and he sent it back a week later rewelded, no charge. I had to insist on sending him a check to at least cover his shipping cost. He's obviously one of those guys that believes a lifetime guarantee means, "if it breaks and I'm still alive, I'll fix it."

Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [shumanmo] [ In reply to ]
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This is the system that all ITU aerobars should use. That would be the easiest system to allow ITU athletes to clip on some aerobars and match them up with a flat bar drop bar like you have. I could buy one for sure. Just a simple T shape extension coming out straight from the stem.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [GT] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You have any photos of these seat post /parts? I am rebuilding a GT superbike3 and have had to make a lot of post parts.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This needed to be added to this thread:

Taken from here



I designed the original bar in, Nov/Dec '87, in my studio in Indianapolis. I thought at the time, after sharing my design ideas, etc., with Profile, I had a verbal agreement about royalties, etc., that i could trust. I was paid a paltry design fee, and then was shut out completely. The picture you post is the 2nd generation 'Add-Aero" with the internal telescoping wedge, (Profile's upgrade vs my collet clamp) that they ended up patenting in '91/'92. I was not listed as the inventor.
At the time I had designed the bar, I was unaware of the Scott clip-on, patented by Boone Lennon. I just thought that the 'triangular bar, Scott & Profile, wasn't the way of the future.
So we have the '88 TDF, and therafter things changed forever.
Ken Nowakowski


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Last edited by: jeremyb: Feb 5, 10 20:30
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think the lack of top tube was an obree inspired thing- (i am speaking from reading elsewhere, unlike others i of course was totally uninvolved)

obree's custom made bikes had no top tubes originally- he did this because he felt knee position (very knock need almost touching) was really important, and if you have a toptube you cant bend your knees in for aerodynamics...

ive tried ridign that way, and it makes my knees hurt in 15 seconds...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-Cartels: Serotta, Zipp 2001, Guru, eh?
-"It was kinda long and then i got really tired"
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Dont make me have to go to the attic and bust out the Scott 100k bars....

Wait, I am moving soon and am going to have to get them and all the other stuff out....

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Have anything fun you want to sell me?

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Power Cranks.

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
    

the scott 100k bars were very minimal... i think the next version were called Y1 bars (above) which only had one strut and you held it with one hand above the other , moving one shifter to the frame , with brakes angled like fishhooks on the side ...




from another post i made in...
Re: What 'high tech' gadgets does Chrissie Wellington use? Do you need the gadgets to be great? [Tom A.]



1 piece aerobars (scott 100k bars) ...




http://www.peletoneast.com/...986&d=1245767691


trilite bars....



the slingshot frame ...



or ..



l




springloaded armrests



Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 6, 10 0:29
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
my bike, although now it has risers and spoked rear and is just a cruiser.

Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The Jim Felt engineered "drop cranks" that Paula used. If she were racing today the forum would be agog with excitement and threads dedicated to them and (almost) everybody would be rushing out to buy a set.
I recall that the idea behind the drop cranks was that on the downstroke pedalling force essentially "tipped" them forwards thus effectively lengthening crank length on the downstroke. Big chainrings to go with her 24 inch wheels.
They did increase stance width or "Q factor" but supposedly PNF preferred the wider stance.

Kevin

p.s. best thread ever! There was so much innovation from the 80's through the 90's that if the UCI hadnt stifled innovation what bikes, bars and positions we would be seeing now.
Last edited by: flying wombat: Feb 6, 10 1:43
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
damn dude
feel like should I paypal you a dollar or something.

reminds me of the bit I just read in cryptonomicon where lawerence waterhouse is proudly showing a general his invention of the digital computer, while the general furiously takes notes to steal it for his computing machine business back home =)

In Reply To:
This needed to be added to this thread:

Taken from here



I designed the original bar in, Nov/Dec '87, in my studio in Indianapolis. I thought at the time, after sharing my design ideas, etc., with Profile, I had a verbal agreement about royalties, etc., that i could trust. I was paid a paltry design fee, and then was shut out completely. The picture you post is the 2nd generation 'Add-Aero" with the internal telescoping wedge, (Profile's upgrade vs my collet clamp) that they ended up patenting in '91/'92. I was not listed as the inventor.
At the time I had designed the bar, I was unaware of the Scott clip-on, patented by Boone Lennon. I just thought that the 'triangular bar, Scott & Profile, wasn't the way of the future.
So we have the '88 TDF, and therafter things changed forever.
Ken Nowakowski



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This *is* the best thread ever, we should copyright it or something before the industry scans through it for new ideas.

I think I've figured out how dave scott was so fast without any technology

mustaches

we need mustaches



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Funny--I went back to the 100K bars last season and found them to be extremely fast. I had set my all time PR for 10 miles on them and thought that I'd do some formal testing on them. Had them on my P3C and will be putting a set on my CD 0.1 this weekend as part of a new build. Still one of the best aerobars that were ever made--light, solid, and fast. I just bought another set on Ebay last week for $15, including shipping--you can find them for auction occasionally.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
and profile's use of square clamps for round bars, now that was a wonderful idea!!
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:


the scott 100k bars were very minimal... i think the next version were called Y1 bars (above) which only had one strut and you held it with one hand above the other , moving one shifter to the frame , with brakes angled like fishhooks on the side ...

Those wheels remind me a lot of another other thread going on right now.

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
At the time, not all handlebar clamp diameters were the same (Cinelli 26.4mm, TTT & others 26.0).

The hand grip cross section was different on a variety of bars as well.

I began with the V-Block design to be universal in application to bars available, fully realizing that a mating I.D. & O.D. would have been optimal, and presuming that the V-block design would be adequate.

I was not involved long enough after the initial period to do any re-design, bebugging, etc.

Ken Nowakowski

ken@probikesltd.com
http://www.probikesltd.com
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [BMAN] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
This is the system that all ITU aerobars should use. That would be the easiest system to allow ITU athletes to clip on some aerobars and match them up with a flat bar drop bar like you have. I could buy one for sure. Just a simple T shape extension coming out straight from the stem.

Jtek makes something similar:



http://jtekengineering.com/jtek_Axe_aerobar.htm

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
mustaches

we need mustaches

Hehehe...I've been working on that ;-)



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am talking about something just a lot more simply in design. Everyone wants to over engineer everything.

Make it as simple as possible.

Just a very simpe T shaped extension that mounted to the stem like shown but with maybe an aero shaped front wing that is at the maximum distance allowed. That is it. No armrest, brackets or anything else. Just a very simple aero fronted T.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Dont make me have to go to the attic and bust out the Scott 100k bars....

Wait, I am moving soon and am going to have to get them and all the other stuff out....

Some of us still use them ;-)






http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
On ebay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...?hash=item56395e3ec9

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Very nice! Love the reverse cable in the levers.

I bet at races folks try to figure out what bars those are and ask at their LBS who will have no idea.

I would also bet they are at least 1-2lbs lighter than many of the current carbon bar/stem combo's out today.

I never could get used to the Extreme though, shifting was a PITA if you wanted the F-Der to be up there too - and I would pinch my fingers in them climbing...

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Very nice! Love the reverse cable in the levers.

I bet at races folks try to figure out what bars those are and ask at their LBS who will have no idea.

I would also bet they are at least 1-2lbs lighter than many of the current carbon bar/stem combo's out today.

I never could get used to the Extreme though, shifting was a PITA if you wanted the F-Der to be up there too - and I would pinch my fingers in them climbing...

The levers are actually CX levers that are intended to be run inline between the normal road lever and the brake...which is why there's an adjuster on that side of them. They also allow me to easily put brake levers up at the shifters if I ever so desire ;-)



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Ken Nowakowski] [ In reply to ]
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yeah, but in my experience, they tended to slip unless you tightened them enough that they deformed the bars, which was bad.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [flying wombat] [ In reply to ]
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thanks for the explanation ... PNF used those at least twice in hawaii.. was curious as to the what and why and how but info was scarce .



A totally different deformation for "better power transfer" (often voted worst cycling product ever) ...



PMP cranks ...

Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 6, 10 11:04
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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those pmp cranks fascinate me

someone can have the skill and knowledge to design and manufacture a crank arm, which is a culmination of centuries of technology really. math, metallurgy, business, and so on.

and then they don't understand that what they have done is completely pointless!

the human mind is awesome



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone have/remember the aerobar seat belt? I'm sure someone on ST still has one or has a photo. I looked everywhere but could not find a picture to post. I had one on my old Tri bike. My bike was a Vitus 979, Shimano 600 SIS, Scott Bars, Aerolite pedals, Campy aero bottle and my Aerodyne helmet. I was everything hated by the cycling roadies in the 80's. =)

I remember Mark Allen raced Kona with one. Come to think of it, there may be a pic in his book. I'll have to dig that out.

If I remember correctly, one country used them in the Olympics.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [tsmagnum] [ In reply to ]
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we mentioned it earlier ...

Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 6, 10 11:07
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Re: Retro TT stuff [BMAN] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
On ebay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...?hash=item56395e3ec9

Thanks a lot.

Was looking to get a deal on that without ST'ers bidding against me.

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone know the width of these bars???



BTW----Tom, I think the setup looks awesome!

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Last edited by: jeremyb: Feb 6, 10 11:17
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Does anyone know the width of these bars???

I do... ;-)

Those particular ones in the pic above measure 28cm outside to outside as you have the line drawn. I don't know if there were variations on width or not for the bars...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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that is truly bizarre

i could see that being useful if it held me BACK instead of forward

In Reply To:
we mentioned it earlier ...



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Aerolite not trilite
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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How about John Cobbs (I think) Speed Wing skinsuit? Remember that? It had batman wings under the arms.
Still want to see Hamiltons and Joel Thomsons 24" Holland. It had a crazy custom aero bar/stem combo that came up high off the super short front end.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
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Speaking of 24" wheel bikes, does anyone have a picture of Nick Taylor on his double 24" Sommer? Scary aero. Shoulders below hips (at least in my memory). Anybody?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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About 15 years ago there was a masters guy in my area that had one- Bob Brooks? He could roll a 53 something 40k when he was close to 60. I remember the bike. Dual 24", super downward sloping toptube-
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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There was once an invention where you would hold a strap - IN YOUR MOUTH - that would then attach to the handle bars. This would enable you to use your arms to push down on your legs and steer with your chin...honest to god it was real.

Then there was the parachute that went behind the bike. I did a few rides on Via De Luna Dr on Santa Rosa island with the parachute...it was dayglo green, my bike was a splatter finish GT with a hot pink J-Disk....

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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I was only 17 and listening to a few pro's at the time and what not...sure did look queer as hell with that damn parachute going down the coast....

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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"There was once an invention where you would hold a strap - IN YOUR MOUTH - that would then attach to the handle bars. This would enable you to use your arms to push down on your legs and steer with your chin...honest to god it was real"

why i actually remember this is a mystery to me, but i think i had the issue of bicycling where they reviewed it. italian cyclist giovanni jiboffo invented it/the "jiboffo technique". he designed a device which consisted of surgical tubing attached to each side of the handle bars, in the middle of the surgical tubing was a mouthpiece with a hole of the middle of it. when the gradient got steep he would sit more upright in the saddle, insert the mouthpiece, and place his hands on his thighs just above the knees to assist in pushing down on the pedals. he claimed something in the neighborhood of a 12 to 15% increase in speed climbing the hills. HORRIBLE idea!

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Tribato] [ In reply to ]
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its a gosh damned genius idea
its just crazy

In Reply To:
. he claimed something in the neighborhood of a 12 to 15% increase in speed climbing the hills. HORRIBLE idea![/size][/black][/font][/black][/size]



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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I built a strap that hooked to the rear of the seat to keep me from sliding foward,still have it,used it a few times.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [toolguy] [ In reply to ]
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you should sell this to pro cyclists.
I only ever have the typewriter problem in the last mile of short TTs when my power to weight ratio gets within 50% of a pro

they have it much worse!

In Reply To:
I built a strap that hooked to the rear of the seat to keep me from sliding foward,still have it,used it a few times.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [toolguy] [ In reply to ]
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oh yeah....thanks, that bike was a raleigh technium trilite


Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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i bet that bike is way way more aero than the bike with the current Kona bike split record (if you ignore the wheels)



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Typewriter problem?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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It was a great time,we were just coming out from under a few decades of died in the wool shorts roadie conservatism, triathletes mostly didnt come from that background and didnt have the preconceptions and people were trying all kinds of shit. Some of it worked and versions of it are still around, some was just stupid, but it took a new breed of riders, triathletes to challenge the status quo. How long had aerobars been on the bike of triathletes before Greg Lemond famously used his set of clip ons in '89?

edit: although many US based road racers and track racers should also be given credit for adopting many innovations as well.

Kevin
Last edited by: flying wombat: Feb 6, 10 17:05
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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.... was the parachute called a Parashirt ?


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Re: Retro TT stuff [toolguy] [ In reply to ]
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tendency to scoot forward as you pedal requiring that you scoot yourself back every few pedal strokes.

you see it a lot with pros on TT bikes as their power to weight ratios are so huge.

I used to wonder what their problem was until I noticed myself doing it when pushing really hard near the end of a TT


In Reply To:
Typewriter problem?



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Side effects are "Whale Tale"....



----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [flying wombat] [ In reply to ]
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the 1980s tech was awesome, im not talking about that

im talking about the color schemes and fashion =)

In Reply To:
It was a great time,we were just coming out from under a few decades of died in the wool shorts roadie conservatism, triathletes mostly didnt come from that background and didnt have the preconceptions and people were trying all kinds of shit. Some of it worked and versions of it are still around, some was just stupid, but it took a new breed of riders, triathletes to challenge the status quo. How long had aerobars been on the bike of triathletes before Greg Lemond famously used his set of clip ons in '89?

Kevin



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Tribato] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Will you marry me? Hell, just remembering that (and yes, you are right about the name) is enough for me to fall in love...

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Scott 100k aerobars?

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
yep... and heres a diff angle on that seat pod you showed before


Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Dude, Neon lycra and splatter paint jobs were the bomb! Nothing like rocking the neon lycra speedo. I still have an old Tinley one in a drawer somewhere, but I am afraid to try it on, the material would probably tear just trying (and yes I still weigh the same as when I last raced it).

Kevin
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Well then i was having that problem last week at our local TT,i used a vintage TT bike i had only ridden once and that was last Feb,i was back and forth so much i almost got a rash,Now i have a local friend who thinks the pro's do this to use different muscles and rest the legs. If i can get my scanner working i will try to post some pics,i have a lot of TT bike photo's,most pre 2000
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [toolguy] [ In reply to ]
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nah I don't think the kind of typewritering we saw on the giro winner for instance was on purpose. just hard to prevent within UCI rules and huge power


In Reply To:
Well then i was having that problem last week at our local TT,i used a vintage TT bike i had only ridden once and that was last Feb,i was back and forth so much i almost got a rash,Now i have a local friend who thinks the pro's do this to use different muscles and rest the legs. If i can get my scanner working i will try to post some pics,i have a lot of TT bike photo's,most pre 2000



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Kenny Souza and Mark Montgomery (Monty)...your gods....

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [toolguy] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
You have any photos of these seat post /parts? I am rebuilding a GT superbike3 and have had to make a lot of post parts.

A little grainy, but this what the originals looked like. This was the "small." They had a medium (4 inch top piece) and a large (6 inch top piece). Black is the original, and blue the later years. They also used a boot to cover the gap between the frame and the seatpost top. I picked up extras because I had one of these give out when a weld broke. I also had the seat slip out of one during a race. The post is very skinny, but there are old BMX seatposts that will work in a pinch.



---------------

"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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There was a guy northwest US that was building a clip-on from a steel chainstay clamped on the stem had had rest elbows pads i know a woman who still has one very easy to build,,,,, Decker bars i belive
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Re: Retro TT stuff [GT] [ In reply to ]
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I have that piece, and i needed to go higher so i made more of the aerotubing and build a different post head, All of the tubing from those bikes(at least the GT superbikes) was sent to recycling when GT went under. I have seen a "boot' used in a few photo's what did you use?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [toolguy] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
There was a guy northwest US that was building a clip-on from a steel chainstay clamped on the stem had had rest elbows pads i know a woman who still has one very easy to build,,,,, Decker bars i belive

These?????



Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [tsmagnum] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply


Ken Nowakowski

ken@probikesltd.com
http://www.probikesltd.com
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Thats them,remember the name while typing,that bar worked so well and would be so easy to build.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Ken Nowakowski] [ In reply to ]
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Damn i was sitting with the same photo in my lap March 1988 called the cinto belt The Italions won the 100k TTT using them. Ken you a machinist?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I think I've figured out how dave scott was so fast without any technology

mustaches

we need mustaches

No wonder I suck... damn Asian barely-any-facial-hair genes!
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Someone needs to grap that bar,it might not fit modern stems though,it was built when quill stems were used
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Re: Retro TT stuff [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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Really i have been to Boulder two times and missed seeing that shop,I have looked everywhere for photos of these bikes.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Decker bar!! Very cool!
I rode one for a while but it failed at the weld that holds the stem clamp to the bar. Was pounding along in a tail wind (the Buda six for all you Central Texas guys) and my training partner needed to take a break. When we sat up the bar was flopping visibly and only had about a millimeter of weld leg left. The crack in the weld started at the front and propagated back so that as long as I had weight on it I couldn't tell. Another couple of minutes and I would have had a nasty face plant.
Anyway, if someone does want to reproduce this design, please spend some time on stress analysis.

Cheers,

Jim

In Reply To:
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [toolguy] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I have that piece, and i needed to go higher so i made more of the aerotubing and build a different post head, All of the tubing from those bikes(at least the GT superbikes) was sent to recycling when GT went under. I have seen a "boot' used in a few photo's what did you use?

You need one of the medium or large seatposts? I had 2 of the original boots GT supplied, along with various size seatposts, although I sold most of them. (I used to work at a bike shop that bought all the leftover stuff from GT after production runs. We got two shipments a year- tons of crap thrown into extra bike boxes. I got my grubby little hands on everything relating to the Vengeance bikes.) If I was using the 2 inch seatpost up real high, I would use some plastic sheet, like the front of a spiral notebook, to fill in the space. If I was using a seatpost that did not have the aero shaped top, I would probably form something out of styrofoam and then cover it.

---------------

"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [toolguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Someone needs to grap that bar,it might not fit modern stems though,it was built when quill stems were used

I bet it would fit a Salsa stem like this which is nice and round.

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply

aerolite pedals were popular - 33grams, aerospace grade titanium 6A- , really strong, great clearance, 360 degree entry, easy to get out, nice bearings etc etc
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 7, 10 0:48
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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The chainrings are moved faster and slower depending on the position of the crank arm.
The Powercam crank has a cam around the bottom bracket. Some rollers run against the cam.

patented in 1977 by Larry Brown , used by Lon Haldeman to win the Race Across America, typically drop cadence to a pulsing 60 rpm, the big ring is a 60


does anyone know if they are related to ROtor Rings ?


Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 8, 10 1:42
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Trimble behind saddle bottle carrier





http://www.flickr.com/...y-x-gold/3510731943/

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Last edited by: jeremyb: Feb 8, 10 20:59
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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I would not be so sure that Lon was on those cranks for RAAM.....nor Pete for that matter...I may be wrong but I doubt it. Next time I see him and Sharron I will ask (probably wont be till Spring or so).

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.flickr.com/...akeitout/1578295346/


http://www.flickr.com/...otone666/2261534041/

Mavic Mektronic


The most aero mixte ever? Peugeot "Canonbal" anyone have more data on these?






http://www.flickr.com/...071/with/2580132665/

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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WOW! that peugeot is wild!
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Damn I wish I still had my Mavic Mektronic (Zap). I sold it to some guy in Denver a LONG time ago.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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Wasnt Mektronic the 2nd generation and Zap the first generation? If my memory serves me correctly Zap was wired and Mektronic was wireless? Regardless the reliability of both groups left a lot to be desired. I remember the "Croc" Brad Bevan getting stuck in the 11 at a race when his Mavic electronic shifting took a poop.

Kevin
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [flying wombat] [ In reply to ]
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yeah, those shifters didnt seem to like the rain or cold much either




zipp 3000 wheels from 1989

@R10C ... the artice i saw said that he won on them but the cranks blew his knees out, couldnt find any pics though, might be wrong.. and who is Pete ?
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 9, 10 2:19
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply



Stronglight Ultim cranks
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
How about John Cobbs (I think) Speed Wing skinsuit? Remember that? It had batman wings under the arms.
Still want to see Hamiltons and Joel Thomsons 24" Holland. It had a crazy custom aero bar/stem combo that came up high off the super short front end.


Yea,
I have one in my basement; size M. I almost forgot about that.

Stephen J


I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)e2
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [stephen J] [ In reply to ]
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... is that the same as the arm fins advertised in the back of tri mag a while back ? i remember seeing white airfoils on elastic bands around upper arms etc anyone remember those ?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I have one of these that I will use once a year for a century ride. The lead group tries to go under 4 hours, so we do not stop at aid stations. My two rear bottles lasted until the first set of train tracks last year- damn Camelback bottles!

---------------

"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I´ve been trying to find out about the Peugeot Cannonbal track bike. Looking at the photos and the rider´s position, it must be from ´94 to ´98 (period of the Superman riding position). Definitely not in the main Peugeot catalogues.
My initial thought was it was from the French olympic team in 1996, but rousseau rode a Look that year....
The guy who owns it is Pommes King on Flickr. Maybe you can contact him if you have a Flickr account? I don´t...

-------------------------------
´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Giant MCR-----didnt Larsen ride one of these for awhile when he first came to tri's.



Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think Larsen was using the Mongoose version if I am not mistaken.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [BMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I think you're right. I was going to school at UC Davis at the time and remember seeing it sitting on the floor of his shop for sale and it was orange--mongoose colors.

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I dont think so. Steve was on GT (MTN) and road - he then days before he won IMLP got a green Cervelo that he rode for the first time race week. He went on the Cervelo and crushed the bike course record and the win. That was 2000 or 2001ish.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:


I have that fork and those wheels on my bike now. The bike is a felt s22, I don't believe that's the stock fork as it has a carbon steering tube.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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This is on Youtube but I can not play at home.

He also rode for the LL Bean / Mongoose team correct?

Steve Larson / Mongoose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yoiz0EPFvWM

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Last edited by: BMAN: Feb 9, 10 12:46
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Re: Retro TT stuff [BMAN] [ In reply to ]
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I was wrong - it was Mongoose not GT (I knew it was an MTN brand, not a road/tri brand).

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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my retro baby...with a modern twist.




----------------------------------------------------------------

My training
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Re: Retro TT stuff [stal] [ In reply to ]
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Damn that is nice.

Your Calphalon pans deserve a real stove.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I dont think so. Steve was on GT (MTN) and road - he then days before he won IMLP got a green Cervelo that he rode for the first time race week. He went on the Cervelo and crushed the bike course record and the win. That was 2000 or 2001ish.

LP in 2001. He rode a "Nytro" branded Lotus that same year in Kona.

This is the best thread yet. I need to get my Zipp, Tri Star and Softride lined up for a pic.

____________________________________________
I only believe what I read when I agree with it...
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Re: Retro TT stuff [BrianLizard] [ In reply to ]
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Let there be NO QUESTION that in 2001 at IronMan Lake Placid Steve Larsen rode a yellow Cervelo P3 that Gerard gave to him the week of the race. I was right, you were wrong - nanny nanny boo boo....









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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Last edited by: R10C: Feb 9, 10 16:49
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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I dont remember what year he rode that Mongoose TT bike like the Giant above, but he did.

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Ah validation is so good.


Photo Caption:
Steve Larsen at the 2001 Half Vineman...Photo by Neil Michel/Axiom
http://www.flickr.com/...2510@N07/3552848244/

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Not at IMLP...I. IMLP was his first IM triathlon ever...and the first time he ran more than 16 miles (and he won). He did HAVE a Mongoose branded bike but his contract with Mongoose was for MTN, not road or Tri - thus some of the race week drama that he had in deciding what bike to ride. He then was on a P3 (official, not the Cervelo branded yellow), then later on a P3C for the most current. I can not speak to what bike he was on before IMLP 2001 at Vineman and Wildflower. I do not think that he was at IMLP any year but 2001 racing.

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Let there be NO QUESTION that in 2001 at IronMan Lake Placid Steve Larsen rode a yellow Cervelo P3 that Gerard gave to him the week of the race. I was right, you were wrong - nanny nanny boo boo....


lol... Re-read my post I was only saying what YEAR (2001) he rode the Cervelo at LP. AND he DID ride a Lotus at Kona in 2001.[/img]

____________________________________________
I only believe what I read when I agree with it...
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Was that at Wildflower or Vineman?

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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Can't find the 2001 results for Vineman, but the 2001 Wildflower he was bib 35 not bib 12 like in the photo. I'm going to guess the caption is correct.

http://web.archive.org/...com/wildflower/2002/

So this means he was on a P3, Lotus and that "Mongoose" TT bike in a span of 4 months.

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Here's his 2001 Wildflower bike, looks titanium.

Taken from the archived 2001 Wildflower website Gallery 2 on Saturday.



Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Last edited by: jeremyb: Feb 9, 10 18:07
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Re: Retro TT stuff [stal] [ In reply to ]
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Nice rig !
Man that looks fast .


Terry

"You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream" - Les Brown
"Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment" - Jim Rohn
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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If I had to guess - that was a "Mongoose" built by ABG with a Wound Up fork on it...the seat stays are not OE Litespeed stays, but could be something from the Merlin line or just a one off for Steve - maybe Herbert would know more.

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Boardman- 1996 Olympic Road T/T

He had the Mavic-Zap wire harness running internally through the frame. It crapped out right before his start.. we had to tear the unit off and quickly tape a new wire harness to the outside of his frame with electrical tape... epic stress!!!

(note: his trademark base-bar running off the fork crown)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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awwww, the Scott Drop-Ins. We all had to race with these... it was always fun to bang your knees on them when out of the saddle ;)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, and they were the flexiest bars ever, creaked like mad because of the sleeve at the stem, and also the surface where it was clamped was totally smooth (great on old school stems)- sometimes had to shim them or put sandpaper between the bar and stem. good times-
Last edited by: bootsie_cat: Feb 9, 10 20:18
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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A few cycle couriers rode some of those GT TT bikes around for a while, but I haven't seen them on the streets in a while. Very nice looking given the age of them.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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drop ins with the 1991 aero bridge
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 10, 10 3:06
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Love those Carnac TRS5's. I'm still wearing the exact same pair!
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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And a newer one without the death forks:



Xav

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Never seen that Hotta before, anymore details? or photos?

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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How can we have a retro thread and not include the Dave Scott Centurion Bike:



And the Scott Tinley Raleigh Technium Bike:




When I first started triathlons back in the 1980's I was looking at both of these bikes but they were priced out of my range, about $600 if I remember correctly.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [BrianLizard] [ In reply to ]
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fastest bike split, 112 miles in 4:33 averaging just under 25 MPH on a very windy day!
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Re: Retro TT stuff [hblake] [ In reply to ]
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Homemade extension to 700


90's "Tri Star 26" (Birth of CarbonSports Eclipse)

____________________________________________
I only believe what I read when I agree with it...
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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It's a Hotta Perimeter, or P-700. They made them for the Linda McCartney road team too (alongside the TT-700), and (from what I understand) made in blue, red or LM colours. They came with replaceable and spaced dropouts so you could run them fixed or geared, internal cable routing throughout. The picture of Boardman in 1996 above is on a Perimeter painted to look like a LOOK.

On the track, the GB squad used Hotta bikes for many of their events in the early 2000s and around that time, eg. Jason Queally used one to win Olympic Gold in Sydney for the Kilo, and the GB team pursuiters at Sydney were all on them too:





I wouldn't call them Perimeters though, as they aren't the same as the road versions: there's much more material around the seat tube and in other areas too. There's one hanging up in the reception area at the UK Sport offices in London. Hotta also briefly made a road bike version of the Perimeter, but they're super rare and I'm not even sure if there are any intact ones left!

They're brilliant bikes, took me 14 months to find that one ;)

Xav

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: Retro TT stuff [hblake] [ In reply to ]
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1987 Dave Scott Ironman Expert funny-bike



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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
1987 Dave Scott Ironman Expert funny-bike

So some weird brake lever mounted at the end of the aerobars? Hard to tell what kind. Funky.

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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looks like a cheap mtb lever ... ive seen some fancy compact bmx versions used
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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    I don't think so, that just looks more like a Terry, designed for short riders, with small front to prevent excessive toe-overlap.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [hblake] [ In reply to ]
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Yellow and pink Centurian still racing and winning (my youngest, age 10)! David K

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Re: Retro TT stuff [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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oops...you're right there :)


Graeme Obree

These aero bars are completely custom - they took Obree three months to whittle down from a solid piece of aluminium




massive drilled out 67 tooth chainring ,




shaved down mtb pedals ( were double sided before)

drilled out derailleur wheels


Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 10, 10 10:18
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Re: Retro TT stuff [BrianLizard] [ In reply to ]
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did you turn a 650 zipp into a 700c? Those dropouts are loooooong.


----------------------------------------------------------------

My training
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Re: Retro TT stuff [stal] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
did you turn a 650 zipp into a 700c? Those dropouts are loooooong.

Yup. But only 3cm longer than the factory 650 drops. It's 1/4 Aluminum and still pretty ridged. There is still more flex in the frame than the rear.

____________________________________________
I only believe what I read when I agree with it...
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure how "retro" the Graeme Obree bike is. As I recall he crafted those handlebars out of a solid chunck of Al just last spring. Pretty cool, nonetheless.

Suffer Well.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [BrianLizard] [ In reply to ]
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very cool. Did you get a custom fork made to get your desired geometry....or are you just riding it with an off the shelf 700c fork and it's working out?


----------------------------------------------------------------

My training
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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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The Human Lung
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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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The pic isn't very "retro".... but, the h-bar idea has some retro-roots
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Re: Retro TT stuff [stal] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
very cool. Did you get a custom fork made to get your desired geometry....or are you just riding it with an off the shelf 700c fork and it's working out?

Just added a 700c fork (from my Softride). The geometry actually improved.

It was a pretty twitchy ride as 650c. When it was a 650, I dropped the beam so the wife could ride it. She went on one ride and if I remember correctly when I asked her if she wanted to race it... Her answer was "F' no!"

____________________________________________
I only believe what I read when I agree with it...
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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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German track bike for Barcelona games 92
other model
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 10, 10 10:53
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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That Pinarello is one of my favorite bikes of all time. I would love to see it in person. Speaking of seeing things in person, I wasn't into cycling or triathlon in 1996 when the Games were in Atlanta. I live in Georgia about three hours south of Atlanta. Knowing what I know now, I can't believe I didn't get up there and watch any of the Olympics. My parents went, as did my sister (she was living up there at the time). She was in the park when the bomb went off.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think they put much time into the brake set-up. Why bother with a longer cable anyway? Rear cable won't reach, no problem...
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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3rensho aero bars on pursuit bike circa 80s
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 10, 10 19:38
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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My TT bike:



Waiting for a Shamal HPW 12 on the front, and some Scott 100K bars. On my way to a 27´25" 20km TT last spring:



Finally here are my ´ghetto Rotor rings´, take an old set of Biopace cranks and rotate the chainrings anticlockwise 2 stops (144 degs). I get at least 10% more power with these cranks*



* I might have made that last bit up.

-------------------------------
´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Barchettaman] [ In reply to ]
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nice ! What's the theory behind rotating the BP rings ? by changing the phase wouldnt that reverse the intended effect ?
ie- increase torque during the weaker part of the stroke and lower torque on the strong part ?


Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 11, 10 6:33
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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From Sheldon Brown´s site:

To a casual glance they resemble elliptical chainwheels, but on closer examination they turn out to be the exact opposite of the classical elliptical design. The product of extensive research and computer-aided design, Biopace chainwheels have the small radius engaged when the cranks are horizontal, the large when they are vertical. This is because the Biopace design is based on a dynamic analysis of the motion and momentum of moving cranks and legs, unlike the static, geometric analysis that produced classical ellipticals.
The theory is that during the power stroke, when the cranks are more or less horizontal, you are using the power of your legs to accelerate your feet, which get going quite fast in the lower gear provided for that part of the stroke. The momentum of your feet then carries the pedals through the "dead spot" when the cranks are near vertical. Since the rider doesn't push as hard during the power phase of the stroke, and motion is slower when the leg is changing direction, the Biopace design is gentler on the knees than even round chainwheels. So by moving them 2 positions anticlockwise on the crank, you get something similar to a Rotor or Q-ring. Works best with the older Biopace rings as they have a more pronounced elliptical shape.

Hope this makes sense, kind of.

Normal:



Ghetto Rotor ring slowtwitch special:



Q rings:



-------------------------------
´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Barchettaman] [ In reply to ]
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Nice ride. Needs a nice quill stem to stay with the retro vibe but it looks like you have a great position.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Barchettaman] [ In reply to ]
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sounds like a obree homebrew innovation ... nice !


this one has kind of a retro look to it
was put together for Micheal Secrest in 1996 who rode 1256 Miles in 24 hours at Phoenix International Raceway (WR)
(you can see the truck he was drating in the pic on the newspaper on the wall)
92 tooth chain ring, negative rake forks and an elevated right chain stay
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 11, 10 7:29
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Johnny99] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. The Ritchey Probiscus tri bars are integrated to the stem, so I had to get a threaded/threadless adaptor with a 1/8" shim. Works beautifully though.

I can´t claim any credit for the idea of moving the chainrings round on a Biopace crank. It was mentioned over on Bikeforums. I definitely think someone should test them v. Q-rings and Rotors as a budget option though, certainly in the spirit of this site.

-------------------------------
´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX
Last edited by: Barchettaman: Feb 11, 10 8:58
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Where is the Huffy TT bike hanging?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [toolguy] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if it qualifies as retro, but it's close enough. Components of interest: Hooker SL front brake, grip shift bar-end 8 speed shifters and even Zipp Ballistic hubs.





" Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. - Enzo Ferrari "
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Smoiniye] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [gregclimbs] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
One for the record books:

http://wattagetraining.com/...ic.php?f=2&t=258

:D

g


Woah...look at the fork on that thing! Did he run a Zipp trispoke?



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Feb 11, 10 15:29
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Holy Pedal Power Batman!
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Re: Retro TT stuff [TriDevilDog] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:


That's a beautiful Zipp. I've never considered myself a fan of the stealth look, but the more I see photos like that and my own Zipp the more I warm up to it. The carbon on carbon is a classic look.

" Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. - Enzo Ferrari "
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
My new favorite
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Johnny99] [ In reply to ]
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yeah, definately one of my favs too







Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 12, 10 9:05
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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I want to see someone drum up a Nashbar TT frameset...I cant find a picture anywhere.

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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If anyone is interested in building up some vintage( if that's what you can call them) Cervelo TT and tri bikes - original 650c Cervelo P2's in particular. Contact Enduro Sport in Toronto and ask for Matt at the Outlet store. He can build up a frame with just about any gruppo and wheels you want. This is the bike that really started to put Cervelo on the map and at the time was way ahead of anything else like it on the market. Interestingly, the current (P2 in carbon) does not look that much different, which I think speaks to how far ahead of the time Cervelo was.

http://www.endurosport.com/

See picture of Eric Wholberg riding an orginal P2 here:

http://www.cervelo.com/...ompany&i=History

Own and race a piece of recent Canadian bike history!!

Chip - for you they could even build this up with some vintage Campy if you liked!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Feb 12, 10 9:18
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

How do those brakes work? I must be looking at it wrong because it looks like squeezing the brake handle (obviously thereby shortening the brake cable) will close the gap at the top, and open the calipers at the bottom... thereby NOT braking the bike.

What am I missing?

Team Zoot North East
on Facebook and Strava
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Re: Retro TT stuff [SwimGreg3] [ In reply to ]
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It is really a V brake. There is no center pivot.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, thanks, I'll take your word for it.

It just looks to me like the pivot point is in the middle of the brake arm, not at the bottom like a normal v-brake.

Team Zoot North East
on Facebook and Strava
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Re: Retro TT stuff [SwimGreg3] [ In reply to ]
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The two pivots are the cateliver boss' that are brazed to the fork. Both pads swing in an arc down motion (as compared to one up one down in a dual pivot). The arms just cross in the center.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
One for the record books:

http://wattagetraining.com/...ic.php?f=2&t=258

:D

g


Woah...look at the fork on that thing!


Speaking of Wynn forks (and other things Wynn) - here is Jim Martin's old TT bike:



EDIT: Also note the retro Specialized AeroForce helmet. :-)
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Feb 12, 10 9:39
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Johnny99] [ In reply to ]
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x2 That's a beaut.
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
My new favorite
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I bought a Softride from Endurosport last summer. Old school 650 wheels on a large frame. They were very easy to work with. One of those old Cervelos would be pretty cool to have.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Heh...remember the Specialized Sub 6? "The Helmet of Death!"

This of course was after the Bell V1 and the ground breaking Mirage helmet where we could get our ProTec spandex helmet cover to match our Uni disk and our Speedo...

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Robert Preston] [ In reply to ]
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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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... dont forget the matching lycra seat covers



must have shade fade tape



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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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this may have been posted above, but, [in best crocodile dundee voice]:

"That's not a chainring! THIS is a chainring."






"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
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Re: Retro TT stuff [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]
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lol..that Bruce Bursford has seen a BCR before ...




Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 12, 10 12:03
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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That is a BP stealth bike not a Mongoose http://www.bpstealth.com/main.html
vicvfx

In Reply To:
Ah validation is so good.


Photo Caption:
Steve Larsen at the 2001 Half Vineman...Photo by Neil Michel/Axiom
http://www.flickr.com/...2510@N07/3552848244/
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [vicvfx] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
That is a BP stealth bike not a Mongoose http://www.bpstealth.com/main.html
vicvfx

In Reply To:
Ah validation is so good.


Photo Caption:
Steve Larsen at the 2001 Half Vineman...Photo by Neil Michel/Axiom
http://www.flickr.com/...2510@N07/3552848244/

Actually the other way around. bp Stealth was originally a Mongoose. It was also sold as an EPX for a bit. I am pretty sure "bp" bought the rights to be the sole retailer of that frame now.

____________________________________________
I only believe what I read when I agree with it...
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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3SIXTY5cycling.com - Full Carbon Clinchers. (Use Code Brad2018 for $50 off the "FAT" series wheelsets!)
Last edited by: hillier99: Feb 12, 10 16:58
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Re: Retro TT stuff [vicvfx] [ In reply to ]
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We knew that. We just didnt know what race Steve was on it at.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Moser bike is so cool
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Re: Retro TT stuff [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
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dude the bike still looks sick, you gotta get past brands and just go for looks.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [JeanClaude] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:



love these double stems welded into the fork crown!

Probably not very aero----at least less aero than if they had placed one stem in front of the headtube, but cool.

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Could have built up the crown with material in front of the head tube and put a single stem on like you suggested. I like that idea a lot more than the double but still pretty cool looking.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Vintage Profile Triathlon bars for sale



Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I had forgot about those. Looks like about 6 feet of neon yellow tubing. The extra bends might give some additional positions, if one is into that sort of thing.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I think the coupler for the middle part of the bars would be worth getting just to put a couple of extensions and then you would have a real aero or die set up.

Single bend extensions matched up with coupler, vision levers further down the extensions with the bar con shifters in the standard position. Arm rests held in place with a Profile arm rest extensions.

As aero or die as possible.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Last edited by: BMAN: Feb 16, 10 9:29
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Johnny99] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I had forgot about those. Looks like about 6 feet of neon yellow tubing. The extra bends might give some additional positions, if one is into that sort of thing.


LOL - We nick named those the "Ugly Stick"....they were ugly and bent like a fishing pole.....

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Johnny99] [ In reply to ]
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those bars add back all the drag you take away by making your body aero, lol

In Reply To:
I had forgot about those. Looks like about 6 feet of neon yellow tubing. The extra bends might give some additional positions, if one is into that sort of thing.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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They are WAY aero with original drop brake levers mounted backwards and then adding "Swift Shift" was the icing on the cake...sure it was...that is the ticket..




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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [BMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah that would be cool. Not for $65 though.

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [BMAN] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I think the coupler for the middle part of the bars would be worth getting just to put a couple of extensions and then you would have a real aero or die set up.

Single bend extensions matched up with coupler, vision levers further down the extensions with the bar con shifters in the standard position. Arm rests held in place with a Profile arm rest extensions.

As aero or die as possible.


I've tried a similar set-up, and here's the problem: when the arm rests are cantilevered well off to the left/right of the extensions, they are very flimsy. IMO, "aero-or-die" only means that you are committed to staying the aero position, not that you are willing to die by having an arm rest snap off leading to a face-plant. :-)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Troxel Helmets are a plenty on eBay.

I've read some reports that these might be as fast as any modern TT helmet. Andy, have an opinion on that?



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Troxel Helmets are a plenty on eBay.[/url]

I've read some reports that these might be as fast as any modern TT helmet. Andy, have an opinion on that?


No opinion, but more importantly, no data. :-)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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heck with retro... that looks like a great winter helmet! no vents and a visor.


Tim
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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mid 80s


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Re: Retro TT stuff [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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As Jeremy has mention, not at that price and Andrew if you die while doing something you love is that not the best way to go? ;^)

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Retro TT stuff [twinracer2] [ In reply to ]
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Limar Chrono is pretty close too.

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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aerohead

factory pilot

kirk precision

gripshift
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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1978
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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This tread is totally awesome...

Post post post!!!!!


Jf
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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i just bought a bunch of old cycling mags from the 80's/90's but havent had a chance to scan them yet. Be warned though, serious TT pjorn on its way...

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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

factory pilot


I had an early set and they were called the Oakley "eyeshade". You could buy replacement brow pads. Sweet shades.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Those Etto helmets where the worst things ever. Uncomfortable and ugly. Hey get me 8 dozen! I want my money back.

The 4000 is still pure sex.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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only $76 and they can be yours!

such a bargain!

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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inside tri mag has a great article on the invention of the aerobars----giving the credit to Byrne (creator of Speedplay pedals). Good photos too, if someone has a scanner, please post.

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Just read the article last night. I will see if I can scan this at work in the morning if I remember. Interesting article and some shots back and forth about the creation of the aerobar.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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The Pirate's cock pit.. (1998 TDF)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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rudy project krono

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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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Who made this Bianchi? Looks inspired from a 1998 Cervelo P2 ---- though no skeg and the cables are external on Marco's.



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Too many pictures and articles to count at the UK Timetrialling Forum:

http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk

Look under the "Time Trialling History and Nostalgia" Section.

For Example:
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/....php?showtopic=25285

http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/....php?showtopic=25297

David K
Last edited by: DavidK: Feb 17, 10 5:17
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Wohlberg on a P2 with a Troxel helmet in the A&M tunnel



Cervelo Barachhi in the tunnel



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Can't leave out the Javelin... this frame was originally black but has been repainted white....picture of it's original color below...



Here's Alison Dunlap on her Javelin...




Greg Eberdt on his Javelin...




Elizabeth Emery on her Javelin...




And my Javelin....



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Nice. It looks like the cow-horns put you almost as low as the aero-bar.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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these helmets are awesome. i would totally use one. why arent they used in tris?




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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weinmann
diacompe dual lever (concept might be nice inside a pair of 100k s ?)
magura HS77
dura ace AX
modolo krono

modolo K4L

weinmann pbs300
weinmann delta
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 18, 10 1:48
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Re: Retro TT stuff [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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there's no padding inside of that one.

Companies do have aero helmets with visors though.

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Shimano aero bottle



Campagnolo aero bottle





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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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SOme very cool brakes there - are they yours? I think the HS77s are what Badman used on her Cheetah and I've always wanted a pair :(



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
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Re: Retro TT stuff [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]
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Few more brakes

McMahon Racing (MRC)



Hooker on a scale



Campy Delta with carbon cover



Hooker with a canti post type mounting



Zipp



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Re: Retro TT stuff [luckyleese] [ In reply to ]
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yeah they look great, unfortunately not my collection :)


that obree bike reminded me about custom drilling or "drillium" from the early 70s ....



how to ....http://www.tearsforgears.com/...6start%3D18%26um%3D1[/url]


who could do this to thier campy parts ?...


Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 18, 10 7:54
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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AWESOME! i totally lusted after one of those N(eed)F(or)S(peed) Nishiki Altrons with those horrible tri-spoke wheels when i got into the sport 20 years ago. i worked for hind (kenny's clothing sponsor) back then and was able to score some of the one-off outfits that he didn't want because the colors weren't loud & obnoxious enough!

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Tribato] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
AWESOME! i totally lusted after one of those N(eed)F(or)S(peed) Nishiki Altrons with those horrible tri-spoke wheels when i got into the sport 20 years ago. i worked for hind (kenny's clothing sponsor) back then and was able to score some of the one-off outfits that he didn't want because the colors weren't loud & obnoxious enough!

Horrible because of the color?



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Tribato] [ In reply to ]
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x2. That bike was totally badass.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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That setup was the shiznit in the day...as were Thompson Transition pedals and sweet vintage helmets...

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jager66] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:


That setup was the shiznit in the day...as were Thompson Transition pedals and sweet vintage helmets...

Rear mounted water bottle? Cool.

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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oh yeah.. same as the nishiki there ... those thompson timeless transition pedals were classic

... you got any pics of the profile design piggyback ?


Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 18, 10 9:44
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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the original Giro , developed by founder Jim Gentes
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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custom super lite brakes by Rudi

one of the first prototypes

mavics e shifter

no front derailleur
This is a really cool thread!

"injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" MLK
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jager66] [ In reply to ]
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I've still got my Thompson Transitions sitting in my box of old stuff I can't get rid off but haven't figured out how to use again.
Saw a guy using the Thompsons 2 years ago at a local sprint. Also have a profile aero II bar, scott clip-ons and various parts of grip shifters in the same box.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Shakeandbake] [ In reply to ]
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@shakeandbake - cool spycam pics ...whats up with the fred flinstone brake in pic 2 ? the idea was to push down a folded aluminium card directly down on the tire ? kind of reverses everyhing.. making the wheel a giant brake pad ... wonder if it chews tires

@jeremyb - that obree looks like a relation of the Javelin posted recently
- that Boardman hillclimb bike reminded me of Mike Pigg's sawn off drop setup without the clip-ons

@obione - did you try selling your thompsons to a duathlete ?




Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 18, 10 13:54
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Re: Retro TT stuff [obi-one] [ In reply to ]
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I have plans to make my own Du pedals----its in the DIY queue.

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik
Last edited by: Hid: Feb 19, 10 9:20
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Hid] [ In reply to ]
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Or how about a tied trial bike?





"your horse is too high" - tigerchik
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Hid] [ In reply to ]
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Zunow


Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 19, 10 12:16
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Hid] [ In reply to ]
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The last one scares me. If Pinhead from Hell-Raiser rode a bike, it would be that one.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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a variation on that 3 triangle version ...


Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 20, 10 9:58
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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the Zunow Z1 and the Hummingbird (as ridden by the Puntous twins in the mid 80s)..seriously sweet bikes
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Kentiger] [ In reply to ]
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the wheels look tiny ... are they 24" ? rick wells rode zunow for a bit too
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 20, 10 10:20
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Here is my Pinarello Prologo TT setup as single speed. It has the candle smoke finish...



Checkout http://www.iotexpert.com
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Re: Retro TT stuff [ In reply to ]
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This was an experiment from a few years back - tried to put something together entirely from ebay and "junk bin" parts for under $1k (and succeeded).

I also tried to be as gimmicky as possible (Rotorcranks, BP Stealth knock-off the color of week-old urine, etc).

I actually had little to no idea what I was doing with fit/equipment (see helmet) and I never set the world on fire with it or anything but it made me go faster than I think I should've been going and it got me in the money on a couple of occasions.

All my teammates over 6 feet tall used it, too. I was constantly loaning it out. The prologue at the Millionaires Row stage race one year was a total Chinese fire drill - three of us used it for the same event - one of us would finish and fall over then the others would grab the bike and swap pedals and roll right back out with the same sweaty, stinky TT helmet. To my consternation, one of them beat my time on it that day, too (having never ridden it before hopping on to roll to the start).

I think this bike actually had some kind of soul to it. I was under the mistaken impression a couple of years ago that USAC was going to start enforcing UCI rules for all TT's (that's what the original announcement said) and I sold it on eBay. I made a couple of attempts to put together another sub-$1k TT bike to replace it but it just never had the same mojo that this one did.

Now that TTs are basically a big arms race, I think there should be a special sub-$1k category where you have to provide receipts.




Last edited by: dan_hoover: Feb 20, 10 13:03
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Hid] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Or how about a tied trial bike?



I bet tweakers would love to get their hands on that one... along with the hipsters and F.A.M.S.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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That second pic is of one of Rudi Kurths prototype hydraulic brake systems he has on one of the Cheetahs. I just returned from a visit to Switzerland. Rudi is redesigning a new Cheetah for the new Di2 system for me. His designs and thinking are way ahead of our time. He is a super down to earth guy. Great family too.

"injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" MLK
Last edited by: Shakeandbake: Feb 20, 10 20:29
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Re: Retro TT stuff [dan_hoover] [ In reply to ]
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nicely done , especially at that price ... was that 1k without wheels ?

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Re: Retro TT stuff [Shakeandbake] [ In reply to ]
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yeah - nothing normal about a cheetah ... already the innovative thinking behind them is impressive

scott tinley
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 21, 10 7:38
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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the raul alcala thread made me remember his 7-11/PDM/Motorola days. i LOVE those old school blue SIDI hawaii shoes!









concorde TT bike, LOOK carbo pro pedals, mavic radial laced open4 CD 650c front wheel, scott clip-on bars, mavic gruppo with down tube shifters, mavic comete disc wheel, white turbo saddle...this thread brings back so many memories.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone
Last edited by: Tribato: Feb 21, 10 18:23
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Gotta get the fit dialed in. Working on that.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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1992






Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 24, 10 8:41
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome Look.

Modolo Kronos---only $750!



Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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another P3 copy ;)

=====================================
S�rgio Marques
When it hurts is when it feels good ;-)
Sergio-Marques.com
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Shouldn't that be more like 1998?? (rather than 1988)

I remember those bikes, very nice.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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oops, you are right... i misread the page ... the blue one is from 1992 and the others from late 90s




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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Eddy Merckx "Aero-Form"



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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If you believe this guy's story, this is pretty cool.



we have a bike shop and ordered this bike from ten speed drive imports (the sole importer of lemonds at that time ) long before the trek's relationship with lemond .we ordered it to be as close to the bike that greg won the tour on that year.(INCLUDING PAINT) he rode for TEAM Z that year . it was ordered the day after his TOUR DE FRANCE victory . it has not been ridden ,but has been hanging in the shop ever since . we did sell the original crank ,and rear derailler off of the bike . so we replaced them with a chorus 10 speed rear der. and( i think) a chorus crank . the crank does have some scrathces where the chain overshifted . at the time we replaced these components , all the record stuff was carbon ,and we felt wouldnt look right . so that is why we went with chorus .

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Yep I can verify that's a true story.. I checked the location and I remember seeing this bike for sale when they got it in 1990 (can't remember the shops name now). They wanted a lot for it then and even more for it now.. I guess I was wise beyond my years beacuse I told my friend then.. They are crazy they will never sell that bike! HA.. Guess I was right.

And the crank is a record... jeeze they don't even know what they have..



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp May 8-9, 2019 A2 Wind Tunnel
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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those brakes seem great ... anyone know if they actually performed ?

colnago TT
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 25, 10 1:20
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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I had a set of record deltas. They would slow you down. I could get them adjusted well enough to lock up the rear wheel if I needed too. The problem with them was really in the setup and adjustment. But yes you could get stopped.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp May 8-9, 2019 A2 Wind Tunnel
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Another "TT saddle" with the back raised up to push off of. This one's a Corima.



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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Dia Compe Gran Compe brakes-----I think these would work decently well (aero-wise) on the back of most bikes today, due to the way the brake cable would be routed.



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Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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one of the flickr streams you linked to before had a pic of that 80s snakeskin saddle with a upside down LCD in the nose tip.. couldn't again find it tho



Last edited by: lacticturkey: Feb 26, 10 8:39
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Sugino disc kit ... replaces 32/36 spokes with a 256-strand kevlar system in a clear mylar cover. The T-Disc is actually lighter than a set of spokes . the mtb version was called tioga disc (ala. john tomac who also had a limited edition front version). In NZ pros like Matt Brick were winning national tri's and du's on them, early 90s.
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:



Sugino disc kit ... replaces 32/36 spokes with a 256-strand kevlar system in a clear mylar cover. The T-Disc is actually lighter than a set of spokes . the mtb version was called tioga disc (ala. john tomac who also had a limited edition front version). In NZ pros like Matt Brick were winning national tri's and du's on them, early 90s.

I would LOVE to get my hands on a set of those....



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Dia Compe Gran Compe brakes-----I think these would work decently well (aero-wise) on the back of most bikes today, due to the way the brake cable would be routed.




I have a set of these (in black), and they fit pretty much nothing. I think I read that they max out at 40mm reach, but I know they did not work for my variety of bikes, except the old P2 classic with Rolf Vectors in 650c...then I put my tri-spokes on for a race, and the rear would not reach. Bottom line is that there is VERY limited reach adj. with these brakes (Dia Comp AGC300), but they are minilalist and light.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder where the Shorter TT frame is,It was on Ebay a few months ago.(Or one like it)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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Funny stuff you needed a bike welded to your specs to use these ......as a benefit you could enjoy really really weak breaking .....
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tomac was sponsored to use these ......breaking em all over the place in 92 ......the sound also was funny ......for road ....maybe ....but Mtb .....downhill ......ouch....
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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"Over time disks did develop more flex (which is why Tomes disks were numbered & binned after 20races!)"
"A more compliant/shock dampening wheel is the first argument in their favor. It's worth noting that these wheels were first launched back in the day when full suspension bikes weren't a reality in any workable/lightweight form. So wheel compliance was an interesting concept."

quoted from
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Re: Retro TT stuff [toolguy] [ In reply to ]
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this Shorter Lo Pro is listed atm ...

http://www.hongkongfixed.com/...tid=281&pid=4186


Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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golden ICS

Last edited by: lacticturkey: Mar 1, 10 10:11
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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I am grateful that this bike never came up for sale on ebay

Checkout http://www.iotexpert.com
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Robert Preston] [ In reply to ]
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Here is some real "retro" Softride. Anyone want to take a guess on the year? Big bonus if you can guess the race!



Kevin
Last edited by: flying wombat: Mar 1, 10 13:32
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Re: Retro TT stuff [flying wombat] [ In reply to ]
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1996? As for the race, I have no idea.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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The gold on these is not as nice as the one's you posted, but they're still pretty freaking cool.



Have there been any Griffen's?











MOP Mike's Titanflex (from another thread) http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...earch_engine#1426944



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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For some reason, I always liked Griffen bikes. Very expensive if I remember correctly.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Robert Preston] [ In reply to ]
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old school ZIPP...back when they made frames and tri-spokes. i think pauli kiuru rode one of these as he dominated IM australia from '91-'94.



or how about mike pigg with a J-Disc rear and a 1st generation OCLV 5200 road frame circa '94...


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone
Last edited by: Tribato: Mar 4, 10 7:31
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Re: Retro TT stuff [flying wombat] [ In reply to ]
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94, gulf coast half.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [alanhawse] [ In reply to ]
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why do you say that ? 'cos money would have been made no object ?



to further stretch the 'retro' thing here ... (assuming its more about retro-spective anyways)....



This is a New Zealand TT design which won the '96 World TT Champs, then the governing body outlawed triangulated top tubes.
Spencer Smith recieved one days before the 1995 world triathlon champs and biked away from the field to win ... from memory it was 650c format
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

MOP Mike's Titanflex (from another thread) http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...earch_engine#1426944



Wow! That's an old pic. Here's what the bike looks like 10,000 miles later:




"Mars is a world completely inhabited by robots from another planet." -- RandMart (paraphrased)
Last edited by: MOP_Mike: Mar 4, 10 13:42
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. I am going to have a divorce if I buy another colnago

Checkout http://www.iotexpert.com
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
"Over time disks did develop more flex (which is why Tomes disks were numbered & binned after 20races!)"
"A more compliant/shock dampening wheel is the first argument in their favor. It's worth noting that these wheels were first launched back in the day when full suspension bikes weren't a reality in any workable/lightweight form. So wheel compliance was an interesting concept."

quoted from

I think a pair of these early Scott bars, factory mounted on a Bianchi "Incline", will help keep these guys get "aero" in the descent.



Sweet...



____________________________________________
I only believe what I read when I agree with it...
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Re: Retro TT stuff [obi-one] [ In reply to ]
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You guys bracketed it, '95 Mrs T's Chicago, it was the National champs that year. I just noticed the front brake QR is open, I remember now I slammed a pothole on Lakeshore drive and broke a couple of spokes, the front wheel rubbed the brake for 18 miles of the bike. Thats what I blame for my shitty bike and run split, the shitty swim split was due to following feet and not paying attention where they were going which ended up waaaay off course.

Kevin
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Re: Retro TT stuff [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
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wow, everything improved except for the saddle! Yikes.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [carboner] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
wow, everything improved except for the saddle! Yikes.

That's an Adamo with a DeSoto cover. It's sloppy in that pic, but it's actually pretty clean with the flat kit tucked up underneath:


"Mars is a world completely inhabited by robots from another planet." -- RandMart (paraphrased)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [BrianLizard] [ In reply to ]
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that carrier might slow you a bit tho ;)


Colnago Pista Prototype




Built for Tony Rominger in 1994 to break his previous hour record. That is a 61t chainring in front. Colnago was years ahead of Zipp with those dimpled carbon disc wheels. This bike was made around the time that the UCI began restricting bike design so it didn't get to see much use.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [alanhawse] [ In reply to ]
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:) at least you would have the colnagos


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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Back in '86, after Lemonds dramatic 8sec TDF win, I was intrigued with Fignon's System U helmet.
Without much CF fabricators then, I moulded one looking at Fignon's TT pics using plastic & paper mache'.
Then I had a local fiberglass guy make the helmet.
Added my own styro & foam inserts and straps (god help me if I crashed).
Made my own decals.
Would be nice to use in the next local TT or TTT but they probably won't let me.


Last edited by: campled: Mar 5, 10 19:57
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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My GIRO REV IV fairing still legal for use in England!

M@TTY
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Firstly my thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

I spotted this bike at US Age Group Nationals in Tuscaloosa AL last year. Aside from the Zipp front wheel, check out the Cinelli XA stem, a very novel way of getting your seat into an ST-approved position!




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Re: Retro TT stuff [BigBloke] [ In reply to ]
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nice original innovation (if its strong enough) , thought it was one of those seat shifter rails first, looks to me like dad mod'ed his bike for his kid

i like the seat height contrast with the felt, funny how low-tech having the brake cable run over the top tube looks now

' 88 concept
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Re: Retro TT stuff [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like you have some weeding to do Mr. Mike
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
nice original innovation (if its strong enough) , thought it was one of those seat shifter rails first, looks to me like dad mod'ed his bike for his kid

i like the seat height contrast with the felt, funny how low-tech having the brake cable run over the top tube looks now

' 88 concept

Very Cool!

Why can't somebody come out with a saddle like that with built-in hydration. You know, kind of like a Neverreach, but not as ugly...and more aero. ;)


"Mars is a world completely inhabited by robots from another planet." -- RandMart (paraphrased)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
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The original Lotus patent had a section in it for behind the saddle in-built hydration, not a massive fairing though

Xav

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [BigBloke] [ In reply to ]
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Thats incredible! Especially next to the b16! Its amazing what you can compete on!

"If you cannot win, at least make the guy ahead of you break the record"
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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cool seeing those ... they don't seem to like photos or CAD driagrams down at the patent office.
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Mar 8, 10 10:45
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

Who's Thomas Fritschen?





Seatposts are sure similar. That Pinarello has more of a Lotus-like front end though. Probably a more aero front end also.

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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This is from 1917


From 1956


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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Unbelievably cool sleuthing jeremyb! Tom Fritschen is the guy who's name I could not come up with way back in this thread when I wrote "There was a guy from the San Diego area who was making extremely stiff custom carbon bean bikes (made one for Arron Hartwell)". He would demonstrate how stiff they were by jacking up an old American made station wagon and then letting the tire down on the chainstays. They would support the weight with very little flex! He was also a regular at the San Diego weekly races and of course rode his own bikes.

Cheers,

Jim

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Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the back story.

Check out this Porsche bike patented in 1980. Looks a lot like a Lotus. Crazy this is from 1980 though. Lotus did reference it in their patent application.


This is from 2004, a little odd


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Re: Retro TT stuff [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
The original Lotus patent had a section in it for behind the saddle in-built hydration, not a massive fairing though

Xav

I dont see that actually. Also, I checked the UK patent office and found it here, dont see it there also.

Maybe it wasnt in the patent but on the drawing board and got left off?

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Profile aerobars


Aerobars



Not Vintage:
Zipp Dimples

Cervelo P3 circa 2005 filed 2003


Cervelo "Aerodynamic Storage Element" Feb 2008 has not been approved yet


Cervelo Fork with integrated brake has not been approved yet



This is addictive-----must leave computer

Profile brake levers


Aero Cape


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Last edited by: jeremyb: Mar 8, 10 12:44
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Cervelo Fork with integrated brake has not been approved yet

My gut feel is that brake design, while it might be aero, wouldn't function very well.



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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nice aero trike but for the weight weenies ...


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Re: Retro TT stuff [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:

Cervelo Fork with integrated brake has not been approved yet


My gut feel is that brake design, while it might be aero, wouldn't function very well.

totally agree, very little leverage on the brake arms. Further down in the patent application is the P4 rear brake though.



These might be better stoppers:


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Re: Retro TT stuff [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like those brakes are on the trailing edge of the fork. I'm wonder where the cable pulls from? Maybe like the old "Potts Mod" from BMX, the cable runs through the steerer tube.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp May 8-9, 2019 A2 Wind Tunnel
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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looks like a cross between 2 mtb brakes... either way with the leverage removed ... would be cool if they worked though ... what does the storck leaf srping brake patent look like to compare ?


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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I'll put my money on Fig. 10 ;-)



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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those aerobars make you look like youre about to-bear hug the air ...



note the shifters on the brake hoods




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Re: Retro TT stuff [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Looks like those brakes are on the trailing edge of the fork. I'm wonder where the cable pulls from? Maybe like the old "Potts Mod" from BMX, the cable runs through the steerer tube.

The brakes are more built into the fork and yes the cable goes up through the steering tube:



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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the integrated Storck carbon leaf brakes on the Aero 2 ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNxYLoDfkAc (1.20 min and 2.50 min )


Last edited by: lacticturkey: Mar 8, 10 13:49
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

the integrated Storck carbon leaf brakes on the Aero 2 ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNxYLoDfkAc (1.20 min and 2.50 min )

Thanks for posting that, hadnt seen it.

However, Storck seems a little too worried about grams of weight and not grams of drag. While the brake arms appear to be non-existant, the brake cable is very existant.



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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More Zipp pjorn















Chuckie V


Sizing Chart for 700c Large


A.
27.1" - 29.38"
69 - 74cm small beam
A.
29.5" - 31.75"
75 - 80.5cm large beam
B.
10.75"
27.3cm
C.
16"
40.77cm
D.
23.625"
60cm w/raked fork
E.
9"
23cm
F.
4.25"
11cm
G.
73°-80°

H.
74°

more here:
http://web.archive.org/...http://www.zipp.com/

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Last edited by: jeremyb: Mar 8, 10 14:27
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Both Front and rear for the matter.. Nice idea.. Dreadful execution..



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp May 8-9, 2019 A2 Wind Tunnel
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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x2 - The cable seems to be pulling at an angle that's only 15 degrees or so out of line with the pivot - can't see you getting much force out of that (and it'll get even worse as the brakes get tighter)



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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I ran a home made setup like fig.9 on my BMX flatland bike in 92, brakes on the front of the fork, straddle cable running angled back a bit into the base of the fork crown, cable with no outer straight up to the stem.

braked perfect and ran very smooth. Bit of a pain getting at any cable for adjustment though
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Softride Power V schematics---note the downtube shifters



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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for the record...

scott DH


as seen in desert princess 1987 ...


profile aero one



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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [campled] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

Wow! I love that fairing. Got any more info on this guy?


"Mars is a world completely inhabited by robots from another planet." -- RandMart (paraphrased)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Aston Martin bike made by Chas Roberts '94
Roberts TT with Columbus SLX Aero tubes from 1978

Last edited by: lacticturkey: Mar 12, 10 7:26
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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I love the Yamaguchi but is that stem like 8 inches long? I won't even start on the wall-paper.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
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looks like a late 90's yamaha front fairing...


Tim
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Re: Retro TT stuff [twinracer2] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
looks like a late 90's yamaha front fairing...

Thanks! Acckk, it probably weighs a ton then. I was hoping it was a made for a bicycle.


"Mars is a world completely inhabited by robots from another planet." -- RandMart (paraphrased)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
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maybe it was a suzuki?




Tim
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Re: Retro TT stuff [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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lemond Boomerang v2, circa '95
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Mar 14, 10 10:37
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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3SIXTY5cycling.com - Full Carbon Clinchers. (Use Code Brad2018 for $50 off the "FAT" series wheelsets!)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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3SIXTY5cycling.com - Full Carbon Clinchers. (Use Code Brad2018 for $50 off the "FAT" series wheelsets!)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [hillier99] [ In reply to ]
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3SIXTY5cycling.com - Full Carbon Clinchers. (Use Code Brad2018 for $50 off the "FAT" series wheelsets!)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [hillier99] [ In reply to ]
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Apparently, the bulge kept your feet/crank out of the wind...

Brad

3SIXTY5cycling.com - Full Carbon Clinchers. (Use Code Brad2018 for $50 off the "FAT" series wheelsets!)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [hillier99] [ In reply to ]
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Ummm... No, it's not a fairing, it's a "functional storage area".

Kinda P4-on-steroidish.

Brad

3SIXTY5cycling.com - Full Carbon Clinchers. (Use Code Brad2018 for $50 off the "FAT" series wheelsets!)
Last edited by: hillier99: Mar 14, 10 16:51
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Re: Retro TT stuff [hillier99] [ In reply to ]
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3SIXTY5cycling.com - Full Carbon Clinchers. (Use Code Brad2018 for $50 off the "FAT" series wheelsets!)
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [hillier99] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply


3SIXTY5cycling.com - Full Carbon Clinchers. (Use Code Brad2018 for $50 off the "FAT" series wheelsets!)
Quote Reply
Re: Retro TT stuff [hillier99] [ In reply to ]
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Is that bulbous front wheel modeled after a Pino Moronni design?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [hillier99] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I like the Bianchi. Any idea when it was made?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [hillier99] [ In reply to ]
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wow - what size are those wheels?!



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
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Re: Retro TT stuff [hillier99] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Dan, did USAT or USCF ever get on your case about the carbon fiber "gusset"?

http://web.archive.org/...orld.com/gusset.html

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

Pffft! That guy looks like a lifeguard, not a triathlete. ;)


"Mars is a world completely inhabited by robots from another planet." -- RandMart (paraphrased)
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Johnny99] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
I like the Bianchi. Any idea when it was made?


1994 Evgeni Berzin used it in the time trials at the Giro.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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You could start with this design and make a few improvements and have a very nice bike. 3 to 1 tubes all around, rear brake hidden, internal run cables, ISP to keep it clean at the seat, aluminum would work but carbon to get better tube shapes and have different lay up in areas.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Zipp's Josh Poertner still speaks highly of the aerodynamics of the Zipp frame, but laments the money-losing aspects of it.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [vikingstumps] [ In reply to ]
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1994

1994 Moser hour TT
1993 Obree
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Mar 16, 10 14:53
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [campled] [ In reply to ]
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Any information on those cranks? Curious about what the supposed advantages were/are.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [campled] [ In reply to ]
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here's a pic you posted in another thread of those front brakes:



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Re: Retro TT stuff [wasfast] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Any information on those cranks? Curious about what the supposed advantages were/are.

Probably trying to eliminate the "dead spot".

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Re: Retro TT stuff [wasfast] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Any information on those cranks? Curious about what the supposed advantages were/are.

Those cranks are for people who don't understand geometry and load paths...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Retro TT stuff [wasfast] [ In reply to ]
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"The torque, specified with regard to the axis of rotation, is equal to the magnitude of the component of the force vector lying in the plane perpendicular to the axis, multiplied by the shortest distance between the axis and the direction of the force component. Regardless of its orientation in space, the force vector F can always be located in a plane parallel to the axis."

in short ... psyches you up and psyches other out ;)


Silva aluminum disc wheels
Last edited by: lacticturkey: Mar 18, 10 9:18
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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These are the rear brakes, Using Shimano's old aero brakes. Way before Felt put their brakes below the bb.


Regarding the cranks, this is what the owner sent me (an expat residing here in the Philippines but works in KSA)