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World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace!
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Japanese parts manufacturer Shimano is launching an electronic shifting system for high-end road bikes that it claims will vastly improve performance and reduce maintenance. By replacing the conventional levers that pull wound-steel cables through protective housings with solid-state switches and rubber-coated wires, there's no chance for road gunk to clog things up and interfere with shifting, or, for that matter, your post-ride beer.

The principle of an electronically controlled drive train is to execute perfect shifts every time, thus "reducing mental overhead," in the words of Shimano marketing manager Devin Walton. This is a resource cyclists find in short supply during epic rides.

Thursday's announcement that the system, called Di2, will hit shops in January 2009 settles a question first raised in 2005 when prototypes began cropping up on the bikes of select Shimano-sponsored racers in the pro peloton. The system's development has been photographed, chronicled and Angsted over ever since.

But if the existence of electronic shifting comes as no surprise, its weigh-in certainly should. During a recent telephone interview, an industry insider who spoke on condition of anonymity stopped cold amid a why-do-we-need-this diatribe, upon learning that Di2 weighs less than Shimano's current generation of parts. According to the company, Di2 will be 67 grams lighter than the current Dura-Ace 7800 and only 68 grams heavier than Dura-Ace 7900, the snazzy forthcoming 2009 suite of parts. "I'll be going to hell," said the source, who then fell silent -- no doubt converting grams to ounces to fractions of a pound to the limitless advantages of such weight savings. That's at least an extra Clif Bar.

Shimano plans to offer the electronic setup as an upgrade option within the 7900 group -- which is preselling for $2,600 -- so parts such as the two-tone cranks and brakes will be the same. (No word yet on the additional cost for electric; it could be double.) Di2 consists of two brake-and-shift levers, two derailleurs whose springs have been replaced by servo-motors, a 7.4-volt lithium-ion battery pack, and the wiring harness that connects everything.

The derailleurs, whose job is to move the chain from gear to gear as you shift, talk to each other and automatically adjust so the chain doesn't rub. They also calibrate themselves, so you don't have to play with cable tension to maintain shift quality as cables stretch and the chain and cogs wear. And although the control buttons have been placed in the traditional location behind the brake levers -- so as not to confuse anyone or overly tax that mental overhead -- they could be integrated with the ends of time-trial bars, the top of the handlebars or just about anywhere a rider might find convenient.

Still, the advantage that people who've experienced the system talk about is how little effort it takes to change gears. A quick nudge to one of the shift switches signals a motorized worm gear in the derailleur to instantly move the precise amount it needs to. Fractions of a second later, the chain snaps into position.

Chris d'Aluisio, director of advanced research and development for Specialized, likens the difference between mechanical and electric shifting to the difference between driving a race car with a manual transmission and one with F-1 style paddle shifters. "You can stay on the gas and flip through the gears with no hesitation," said d'Aluisio. "It's seamless power."

Frankie Andreu, who raced in nine Tours de France, described the shifting as "immediate and very smooth and accurate.... It's super nice."

Even my curmudgeonly unidentified source said, "The shifting is mind-blowing: I mean, you just touch the button, and it shifts."

But let's not lose perspective. Shimano isn't the first company to attempt electronic shifting. Mavic introduced Zap in 1994 and then a wireless version called Mektronic in 2000, neither of which survived. Zap's wires proved to be less than waterproof, and Mektronic was finicky to set up properly. Shimano, notorious for its rigorous testing gauntlet, is betting that its engineers have solved the electricity problem -- and so is Campagnolo, a competitor that is on a similar development path but has yet to announce when it will release its system.

The crux of the engineering challenge is making the battery light yet long-lasting, so Shimano's engineers turned to the hardest-working part in any shifting system: the front derailleur. It's also the most temperamental, with a nasty habit of dropping or jamming the chain if the rider doesn't modulate his tempo properly while shifting. (Mavic didn't even go there -- only the rear was electric.) To be fair, the front derailleur has the notably tough job of moving a chain under heavy load between two gears of dramatically different sizes, moving at different speeds. The Di2 crew knew going in that it would require three or four times the juice of the rear derailleur.

So, when Shimano started out in 2003, the initial strategy was to throw a bunch of power at the problem, and take advantage of the servo-motor's massive torque. But this came at too high a cost, according to former Olympian Wayne Stetina, a Shimano vice president whose primary job is to test equipment and provide feedback to the engineers in Japan. "As I recall, in 2004 we had a much larger battery that went dead on me several times during long rides," said Stetina, who has logged 19,000 miles on various iterations of Di2. "It couldn't last more than three or four hours between charges, and the battery pack and control system weighed nearly a pound."

That wasn't going to fly in a sport where grams can translate directly into seconds. The trick would be to conserve power, not squander it. Shimano's engineers redesigned the geometry of the front-derailleur to amplify the force, so they could get the necessary output with far less input. The greater leverage of the new derailleur allowed for a much smaller battery and ultimately shaved half a pound off the system. Stetina claims the battery consistently lasts 2,000 miles between charges (which takes 90 minutes). Officially, Shimano says the battery will last for 1,000 kilometers (621 miles).

The front derailleur doesn't actually move with more force or more speed, as you might assume. It does receive the signal to shift faster than you can send one by cranking on your lever and fighting against friction, spring tension and a lesser mechanical advantage. More important, it should do the same exact thing, every time, without needing to be coaxed or cursed. Powered as it is by an electric motor, the front derailleur simply moves a calibrated distance when it's told. "It just jams the chain into the big ring, no matter how much load is on it," d'Aluisio said. "You don't lose any momentum, and your legs never stall."

Road-bike aficionados are much like trout: simultaneously enthralled and mortified by anything shiny and new that enters their environment. And so it's not surprising that the first two questions people tend to ask about Di2 are: 1) What if the battery dies? and 2) What if it gets wet?

Stetina believes he's personally answered the first. And besides, he said, there is a battery meter on the Flight Deck computer (which includes heart rate, altimeter, inclinometer, calorie counter and the ability to download all these details to your PC after the ride). His unscientific-though-admirable strategy for testing the waterproofness of the system has been to blast the components with the high-pressure hose at a coin-op car wash.

Presumably Shimano's engineers in Japan have more-traditional testing methods. The company prides itself on systems engineering, and has been working on this set of components for more than five years. How will it work? You can find out for yourself when Di2 goes on sale in January. Call us when you've put 12,000 miles on it.

(Was asked not to disclose my source.)

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Last edited by: IronDad: Jul 31, 08 21:36
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [IronDad] [ In reply to ]
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Damn time zones! I was waiting to post our article... Shimano had an embargo on stories until Aug. 1st...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [IronDad] [ In reply to ]
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While it looks, um, nice, I still ask whether this is really necessary...I mean, DOUBLE the already overpriced 7900 for better shifting?

Bob
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry! It was emailed to me a few hours ago and I was told I could post it today. I guess the "embargo" doesn't apply to regular folk ;-)

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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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My Shimano rep was in the store after Aug 1 Greenwich Mean Time and told me where to look for more details. Evidently there is a Shimano rep meeting this weekend in SoCal so more details should be available (cost, TT shifters, etc.) after this weekend.

-Darrell


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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [IronDad] [ In reply to ]
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Since the cat's already out of the bag ;-)

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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [IronDad] [ In reply to ]
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It was 8/1/2008 -- 00:00:00 GMT.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
It was 8/1/2008 -- 00:00:00 GMT.

Except for that darned time-space continuum showing it was five minutes before ;-)

Regardless... I remember people responding negatively to indexed downtube shifters... then to STI's... how long do you guess it will be before we no longer use cable-actuated shifters?

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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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The weight of the levers is amazing at 255g and if you factor in the weight of the battery, they are still damn light. The rear derailleur can be tuned with Ti bolts and carbon pulleys to further reduce the weight to under 200g and the front derailleur is going to have to be stock.

Not being a weight weenie at all but I know people will come on here and say that it weighs too much with the battery and all. Keep in mind that the standard 7800 levers are 464g the rear derailleur is 180g and a front derailleur is 76g the total weight of the 7800 is 720g. The new system weighs in at 672g with battery.

I think that Shimano has a winner here. Depending on the price, I will be looking at this in the future. The best part will be the derailleurs, battery and TT pods. That will be lighter than anything currently available and you will be able to have the pods on the basebar and aerobars. SWEET!
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [IronDad] [ In reply to ]
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Except that these ARE still cable actuated. That is what is so stupid. The cables just run from the battery pack // motor combo box instead of from the STI's. I'd be impressed if the FD and RD were servo-actuated within the units themselves. THAT would be an accomplishment. This current iteration is half-pregnant... Take a look at some of the really high-end hobby servos for RC models. The torque and precision is there to do it. I am remarkably underwhelmed by Di2.

EDIT: I am an idiot. And totally wrong. Misread (and misremembered). My apologies.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
Last edited by: Rappstar: Aug 2, 08 14:28
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Except that these ARE still cable actuated. That is what is so stupid. The cables just run from the battery pack // motor combo box instead of from the STI's. I'd be impressed if the FD and RD were servo-actuated within the units themselves. THAT would be an accomplishment. This current iteration is half-pregnant... Take a look at some of the really high-end hobby servos for RC models. The torque and precision is there to do it. I am remarkably underwhelmed by Di2.

Jordan, they are servo actuated. It's even in the article you just posted:

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Dura-Ace Di2 Rear Derailleur

Like the 7900 mechanical derailleur, the 7970 has a new carbon fiber rear pulley cage and the new design is compatible with wider range cogsets, accommodating up to a 27 tooth cog. The differences are the fact that the unit is now driven by a servo motor instead of a cable and spring, so shifts are identical and precise every time as the computer control unit analyzes each shift.

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Last edited by: IronDad: Jul 31, 08 22:21
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [IronDad] [ In reply to ]
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I got my cycling magazine yesterday and there was already an ad of the e Dura Ace (DI2).
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Paul_nl] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I got my cycling magazine yesterday and there was already an ad of the e Dura Ace (DI2).

In Nederland of de V.S.?

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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [IronDad] [ In reply to ]
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Nederland
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Paul_nl] [ In reply to ]
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Nederland

Natuurlijk... Oranje boven!

;-)

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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [IronDad] [ In reply to ]
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;-)
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Bman] [ In reply to ]
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I think that Shimano has a winner here. Depending on the price, I will be looking at this in the future. The best part will be the derailleurs, battery and TT pods. That will be lighter than anything currently available and you will be able to have the pods on the basebar and aerobars. SWEET!
For TTs it's nice to have the pods on the basebar and aerobar. BUT the battery pack will increase your CdA. It's better to have no battery pack below your bottle cage than to have a battery pack that disrups the air. Or will the NEW P2, NEW P3 and the P4 come in an 'e' version so the battery pack can hide from the wind?
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Paul_nl] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
I think that Shimano has a winner here. Depending on the price, I will be looking at this in the future. The best part will be the derailleurs, battery and TT pods. That will be lighter than anything currently available and you will be able to have the pods on the basebar and aerobars. SWEET!
For TTs it's nice to have the pods on the basebar and aerobar. BUT the battery pack will increase your CdA. It's better to have no battery pack below your bottle cage than to have a battery pack that disrups the air. Or will the NEW P2, NEW P3 and the P4 come in an 'e' version so the battery pack can hide from the wind?

If you don't want to have this anti-aero battery-pack you might put this on your shiny new cervelo and connect it to the new DA.




I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Jordan, are you feeling okay? Servo motors are in the derailleurs, just power and control lines run from the battery pack to each individual derailleur.
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [IronDad] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe I'm a retro-grouch, but this looks a lot like a solution in search of a problem, especially for triathletes. How much shifting does a triathlete do in a race? How critical is it to get those "perfect" shifts? How often does one actually need to adjust cable tension for the derailleurs (I'm thinking "never")? Whose shifting has been messed up by all that "road gunk"? And what does cable tension have to do with chain and cog wear? Did I miss something that says that I need to do something with my shifting, rather than, say, cleaning and replacing my chain on a timely basis? And "Powered as it is by an electric motor, the front derailleur simply moves a calibrated distance when it's told": isn't that exactly what indexed shifting did? Not to mention that there is nothing inherent in an electric motor that moves a calibrated distance.

Maybe it's just a really well-written marketing piece, rather than an accurate description of the world. The difference between this and integrated shift levers is that the latter gave you something you didn't have before: the ability to shift without moving your hands from your brake levers, which can be critical in mass start bike racing. What, exactly, does this give you that you didn't have before, in terms of functionality? It might make shifting a little more effortless (but really, how hard is it to pull on those two levers at the end of your aerobars?), but it doesn't fundamentally give you any new capabilitiies. And all for a bunch of thousands of dollars.

Who was it in the TdF that got stuck on a climb in his big ring?

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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Paul_nl] [ In reply to ]
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Why do you need to put the battery there? Does it have to be in this exact location. Yes it is designed to go there by why could you not put it somewere else like just behind the stem on the top tube? Or under the seat. On the back of the seat post. In an aero bottle on the frame.

Why always think inside the box. It is a lot more fun to think outside the box!
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Old and Haggard] [ In reply to ]
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Who was it in the TdF that got stuck on a climb in his big ring?

Plus this: http://2wheelspot.blogspot.com/...tronica-exhibit.html

I do like the idea of shifters on the base bar AND extensions on a TT bike though. Maybe someone will develop a TT-STI setup that provides a nice ergo position on the base bar with braking and shifting capability and reasonable aerodynamics (to go along with shifters on the extensions). But, I wouldn't touch this thing 'till 2010 at least, let 'em get the bugs out... and the price down!
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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I WANIT! I WANIT! I WANIT! I WANIT! I WANIT! I WANIT! I WANIT! I WANIT! I WANIT! I WANIT! I WANIT! I WANIT! I WANIT! I WANIT!
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Re: World Exclusive First Look: Electronic Dura Ace! [IronDad] [ In reply to ]
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to me, it looks like a nice, expensive toy, but I seriously doubt that it will make anyone any faster... Last I checked, cycling did not require the same degree of shifting precision as motorsports, and in motorsports the ability to make a really quick shift is key (time spent shifting means no power getting to the ground). Bicycles don't have a clutch, so a shift does not mean a period when the rider cannot apply power to the road.

Where I do see electronic shifting perhaps making a bigger dent is in mountain biking, where occasionally you want to preshift to a significantly lower gear.

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