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Are Zipp 404's strong enough?

 

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afie

Apr 2, 06 21:00

Post #1 of 29 (28082 views)
Are Zipp 404's strong enough? Quote | Reply

I am looking to get a pair of tri wheels for training and racing (Zipp 404's, Bora's, I dont know yet) and was wondering about the durability of carbon rimmed, tubular wheelsets.
The roads in Sydney are pretty bad, I am 220lbs, 6'5" and can put a bit of power though the wheels.

I would much prefer the normal tubular 404's as they are they only ones I can get in Australia. The Clydesdales are 100g more in the rims and spokes, the Pave's 90g more than that in the rims, spokes, and hubs. Zipp does not have any info about suitable weights of riders on their website.

Anyone with experience about what would be suitable?


Mito Chondria

Apr 2, 06 21:10

Post #2 of 29 (28068 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

why not get bombproof training wheel, keep saving some money and then get the race wheels? trainingwheels aren't that expensive and a good set will last you a long time.


“The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.” -Michelangelo

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The Dude

Apr 2, 06 21:18

Post #3 of 29 (28054 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Both Reynolds and Zipp make a 404-like CX wheelset. I would go for that, considering your weight. I would recommend the Reynolds because of the more durable hubs (our shop has seen lots of issues with zipps).
*
The Dude abides.


Longboarder

Apr 2, 06 21:49

Post #4 of 29 (28025 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [Mito Chondria] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Daniel

What about todays posts on changing race and training wheel problems.

Train safe & smart
Bob



CoreyFarrell

Apr 2, 06 22:23

Post #5 of 29 (28001 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Zipp makes the Zipp Clydesdale rims. I'm not sure what makes them stronger, maybe higher spoke count?


Mad Jee

Apr 3, 06 2:30

Post #6 of 29 (27951 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [Longboarder] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

It's not really that there are problems swapping race and training wheels. Just takes a little practice and if you walked into most LBS with your race wheels in your hand they would throw them on your bike for free. It certainly shouldn't prevent you from having seperate racing and training wheels.


Portside Athletics Blog


afie

Apr 3, 06 4:33

Post #7 of 29 (27906 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [SwBkRn44] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Clydesdales have a few more spokes and rims that are 35g more. The Cross version have the same heavier rims 28/28 spokes and tougher hubs.

Hey Dude, do you see a lot of problems with Zipp hubs or the rims?

I already have a great pair of training wheels but was looking for something to race with. I dont see much point spending $1500 on a pair of wheels if you are only going to use them a couple of times a year to race.
I am looking for something that can stand up to constant abuse (from road, my weight and power), and if the normal Zipp tubulars would not be up to that, I would consider something stronger.


Mad Jee

Apr 3, 06 6:24

Post #8 of 29 (27828 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I understand what you are saying, but race wheels are just that, race wheels. If you use them everyday then you lose that physical and mental advantage of putting them on for a race.

You say you want something durable that will stand up to everday use, well durable will add weight and thus be less and ideal race wheels. If you already have great training wheels, which you said you do, then keep using them. If you don't want to spend $1,500 check eBay or the classifieds. I got a very gently used pair of Zipp 404's for $650 and will use them only for racing.


Portside Athletics Blog


JasoninHalifax

Apr 3, 06 6:32

Post #9 of 29 (27812 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Nothing wrong with using race wheels only a few times a year. They are expensive, and are not really a consumable item, so they should last you for many seasons to come. Do you really want to buy a pair of $2000 race wheels every second season because they are shot from training on them?

Race wheels are for racing.
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gregk

Apr 3, 06 6:35

Post #10 of 29 (27803 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Go for the Zipp Clydes. Beefier rims and more spokes, but still a very fast and light wheel, especially if you're going with tubulars. The extra weight is worth the peace of mind. At your weight, if you had the "regular" 404's, I'd be afraid you'd crack them on a pothole or RR tracks.


GeeForces

Apr 3, 06 6:50

Post #11 of 29 (27776 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie] (Deleted by GeeForces) [In reply to]

 


joshatsilca

Apr 3, 06 7:03

Post #12 of 29 (27750 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [GeeForces] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The standard wheels are rated for riders up to 210-220 lbs, with the clydesdale wheels rated up to 375. If your roads are particularly bad you can just get the Pave version of a standard wheelset, the Clydesdale version uses a larger flanged hub with more spokes and the Pave rim. The pave rim laminate adds about 30 grams to the rim and almost doubles the impact energy necessary to fracture the rim.

Clearly I'm biased, but I think it says alot that CSC started their entire Flanders squad on off-shelf Pave and cross wheels this weekend. Last year we were the first carbon wheel to ever finish at Flanders as well as having 2 wheelsets ridden to finish at Paris Roubaix, with no other wheel company or team ever even attempting to ride carbon wheels at either of these events (other than carbon fairing type wheels which use a non-structural carbon fairing bonded to a standard aluminum rim).
Josh
http://www.SILCA.cc


Sausagetail

Apr 3, 06 8:44

Post #13 of 29 (27663 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [joshatzipp] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Why isn't there a pave version of clincher 404s? Or are they inherently stronger than the regular tubular 404s such that a pave version is unnecessary?


joshatsilca

Apr 3, 06 11:03

Post #14 of 29 (27591 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [Bitey] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

No need for the Pave in the clincher as the carbon body acts as a leaf spring under the aluminum hoop allowing the hoop to absorb significantly higher shock loads than a standard aluminum rim. This is why you will see Mike Curiak and other ultra-distance mountain bikers using standard 505 rims on 29" mtn bikes. They have found that the rims last much longer than even standard mountain rims while providing improved ride quality (as well as killer mud shedding capacity). And no, we will not warranty the rims when used like this, but as for any conceivable road/pave/cyclocross usage, the clincher 303/404 wheels are some of the strongest ever produced.









Here's the race palmares from the set of 404's shown in the photos according to Mike: When I first received them I laced them up to Hugi 240 rim-brake hubs with stout (DT Competition) spokes, then I rode the $#!& out of them that season. A smattering of the events they were used for that year: 2002 142-mile Kokopelli Trail Race--1st place 2002 360-mile Grand Loop race--DNF 2002 24 Hour World Championships--2nd place, singlespeed After that long summer of riding, guiding, and racing, tickled with their performance but tired of rim brakes, I relaced the 404 rims with DT Swiss 240s disc-brake hubs, SuperComp spokes, and fitted them onto a new frame for the next season. Highlights from that year included: 2003 Kokopelli Trail Race--1st place, course record 2003 Grand Loop--1st place, course record 2003 2500-mile Great Divide Race--DNF 2003 24 Hour World Championships--2nd place, singlespeed In all the training and racing miles I rarely needed to true or tension the wheels, so I concluded that they were as-yet overbuilt. Following that season I again relaced the same set of 404 rims, this time using very light (DT Swiss Revolution) spokes. Then I installed them onto a new frame and went racing. 2004 Kokopelli Trail Race--1st place, course record 2004 2500-mile Great Divide Race--1st place, course record 2004 Sweet Roll 200 race--DNF

For the record that's 10,400 offroad miles. We now have the rear in our factory and the front hangs at the DTSwiss headquarters in Colorado.
Josh
http://www.SILCA.cc


cerveloguy

Apr 3, 06 11:24

Post #15 of 29 (27548 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

A friend of mine cracked his 404 rim. I don't know if this is typical, but I tend to think race wheels are best for racing and you should get some bombproof training wheels for the rest of the time.


sbr140.6

Apr 3, 06 11:41

Post #16 of 29 (27534 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Check these new bad boys out from HED:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/tech/features/Stalingrad/Stalingrad.pdf

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/apr06/apr01newsspecial


Mito Chondria

Apr 3, 06 12:02

Post #17 of 29 (27501 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [Longboarder] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Learn how to adjust your rear derailleur OR pay the bike shop to do it. Should still be cheaper than damaging an expensive race wheel. Why use a race wheel in training? Where is the special factor for racing?


“The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.” -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.


CanIronClyde

Apr 3, 06 12:50

Post #18 of 29 (27458 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Get some cheap training wheels for training (ie you can get a pair of double/triple laced, 32 spoke Mavic CXP22's with 105 hubs for about $250 Cdn.)

I'm 6'7" and 220-225lbs and ride regular 404 clinchers for racing and have never had a problem over 2 IM, a half and several shorter races.

Good luck


trimark

Aug 14, 07 7:03

Post #19 of 29 (26900 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [CanIronClyde] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Bump...

slightly different discussion, same topic (and 'allo big-un!).

I have a zipp 606 wheelset I race one, pretty good so far limited mileage.

However, I'm having increasing problems with my training wheels, a pair of 4yr old Rolf Vector Pro's. Hubs and rims are ok, but I've busted spoke almost 1 in 3 rides lately. So I'm looking for a good pair of durable BLACK wheels. I'm tempted to get a set of zipp 404 clydesdales but am concerned about a few years time when the spokes start to go again.

The problem with the Rolfs now is you take them into a bike shop while travelling or along way from home to get a spoke replaced and they either can't or won't touch them. So, I'd like a wheelset that travel well and can be repaired easily, which doesn't really seem to be the Zipp 404 Clydesdale wheelset...

Comments/Opinions ??

++Mark.
http://triman.livejournal.com


Cliveds

Aug 14, 07 8:26

Post #20 of 29 (26835 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [trimark] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Take a look at the mavic Cosmic carbone, I would say the zipp are strong enough and will hold out fine but the Mavics are perhaps a better option for you application.
Clive de Sousa

More on my blog: http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/


electusunus

Feb 25, 11 20:57

Post #21 of 29 (14482 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [trimark] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

trimark wrote:
Bump...

slightly different discussion, same topic (and 'allo big-un!).

I have a zipp 606 wheelset I race one, pretty good so far limited mileage.

However, I'm having increasing problems with my training wheels, a pair of 4yr old Rolf Vector Pro's. Hubs and rims are ok, but I've busted spoke almost 1 in 3 rides lately. So I'm looking for a good pair of durable BLACK wheels. I'm tempted to get a set of zipp 404 clydesdales but am concerned about a few years time when the spokes start to go again.

The problem with the Rolfs now is you take them into a bike shop while travelling or along way from home to get a spoke replaced and they either can't or won't touch them. So, I'd like a wheelset that travel well and can be repaired easily, which doesn't really seem to be the Zipp 404 Clydesdale wheelset...

Comments/Opinions ??

++Mark.
http://triman.livejournal.com

Curious why a Zipp 404 Clydesdale would be a wheel not to travel with? I think Zipp wheels are a lot more durable than people give them credit for.
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Rappstar

Feb 25, 11 21:08

Post #22 of 29 (14468 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [trimark] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Absolutely they are strong enough. And ANY shop can rebuild them. They don't need crazy spoke tension or spokes or anything. They are built just like any normal wheel. Easy to build. Easy to repair. And very durable.


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nebmot

Feb 25, 11 21:54

Post #23 of 29 (14422 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [Rappstar] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

That's the second time this week, this thread is 5 years old. =]




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The Real Animal

Feb 26, 11 3:44

Post #24 of 29 (14334 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

afie wrote:
Clydesdales have a few more spokes and rims that are 35g more. The Cross version have the same heavier rims 28/28 spokes and tougher hubs.

Hey Dude, do you see a lot of problems with Zipp hubs or the rims?

I already have a great pair of training wheels but was looking for something to race with. I dont see much point spending $1500 on a pair of wheels if you are only going to use them a couple of times a year to race.
I am looking for something that can stand up to constant abuse (from road, my weight and power), and if the normal Zipp tubulars would not be up to that, I would consider something stronger.

That there is the problem. People need to race more. A couple of times a year? Heck, I'm in Aus and I race at least once if not twice or three times a week using either the time trial or road bike - and I'm not even serious I just do it for hits and giggles.


jackmott

Feb 26, 11 5:22

Post #25 of 29 (14285 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [SwBkRn44] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

SwBkRn44 wrote:
I understand what you are saying, but race wheels are just that, race wheels. If you use them everyday then you lose that physical and mental advantage of putting them on for a race.

balls


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