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Are Zipp 404's strong enough?
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afie
Apr 2, 06 21:00
Post #1 of 29
(26552 views)
Are Zipp 404's strong enough?
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I am looking to get a pair of tri wheels for training and racing (Zipp 404's, Bora's, I dont know yet) and was wondering about the durability of carbon rimmed, tubular wheelsets.
The roads in Sydney are pretty bad, I am 220lbs, 6'5" and can put a bit of power though the wheels.
I would much prefer the normal tubular 404's as they are they only ones I can get in Australia. The Clydesdales are 100g more in the rims and spokes, the Pave's 90g more than that in the rims, spokes, and hubs. Zipp does not have any info about suitable weights of riders on their website.
Anyone with experience about what would be suitable?
Mito Chondria
Apr 2, 06 21:10
Post #2 of 29
(26538 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie]
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why not get bombproof training wheel, keep saving some money and then get the race wheels? trainingwheels aren't that expensive and a good set will last you a long time.
“The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.” -Michelangelo
MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.
The Dude
Apr 2, 06 21:18
Post #3 of 29
(26524 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie]
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Both Reynolds and Zipp make a 404-like CX wheelset. I would go for that, considering your weight. I would recommend the Reynolds because of the more durable hubs (our shop has seen lots of issues with zipps).
*
The Dude abides.
Longboarder
Apr 2, 06 21:49
Post #4 of 29
(26495 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [Mito Chondria]
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Daniel
What about todays posts on changing race and training wheel problems.
Train safe & smart
Bob
CoreyFarrell
Apr 2, 06 22:23
Post #5 of 29
(26471 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough?
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Zipp makes the Zipp Clydesdale rims. I'm not sure what makes them stronger, maybe higher spoke count?
Mad Jee
Apr 3, 06 2:30
Post #6 of 29
(26421 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [Longboarder]
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It's not really that there are problems swapping race and training wheels. Just takes a little practice and if you walked into most LBS with your race wheels in your hand they would throw them on your bike for free. It certainly shouldn't prevent you from having seperate racing and training wheels.
Portside Athletics Blog
afie
Apr 3, 06 4:33
Post #7 of 29
(26376 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [SwBkRn44]
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Clydesdales have a few more spokes and rims that are 35g more. The Cross version have the same heavier rims 28/28 spokes and tougher hubs.
Hey Dude, do you see a lot of problems with Zipp hubs or the rims?
I already have a great pair of training wheels but was looking for something to race with. I dont see much point spending $1500 on a pair of wheels if you are only going to use them a couple of times a year to race.
I am looking for something that can stand up to constant abuse (from road, my weight and power), and if the normal Zipp tubulars would not be up to that, I would consider something stronger.
Mad Jee
Apr 3, 06 6:24
Post #8 of 29
(26298 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie]
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I understand what you are saying, but race wheels are just that, race wheels. If you use them everyday then you lose that physical and mental advantage of putting them on for a race.
You say you want something durable that will stand up to everday use, well durable will add weight and thus be less and ideal race wheels. If you already have great training wheels, which you said you do, then keep using them. If you don't want to spend $1,500 check eBay or the classifieds. I got a very gently used pair of Zipp 404's for $650 and will use them only for racing.
Portside Athletics Blog
JasoninHalifax
Apr 3, 06 6:32
Post #9 of 29
(26282 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie]
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Nothing wrong with using race wheels only a few times a year. They are expensive, and are not really a consumable item, so they should last you for many seasons to come. Do you really want to buy a pair of $2000 race wheels every second season because they are shot from training on them?
Race wheels are for racing.
____________________________________
"I'm a dirty girl" - Katy
gregk
Apr 3, 06 6:35
Post #10 of 29
(26273 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie]
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Go for the Zipp Clydes. Beefier rims and more spokes, but still a very fast and light wheel, especially if you're going with tubulars. The extra weight is worth the peace of mind. At your weight, if you had the "regular" 404's, I'd be afraid you'd crack them on a pothole or RR tracks.
GeeForces
Apr 3, 06 6:50
Post #11 of 29
(26246 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie]
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joshatzipp
Apr 3, 06 7:03
Post #12 of 29
(26220 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [GeeForces]
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The standard wheels are rated for riders up to 210-220 lbs, with the clydesdale wheels rated up to 375. If your roads are particularly bad you can just get the Pave version of a standard wheelset, the Clydesdale version uses a larger flanged hub with more spokes and the Pave rim. The pave rim laminate adds about 30 grams to the rim and almost doubles the impact energy necessary to fracture the rim.
Clearly I'm biased, but I think it says alot that CSC started their entire Flanders squad on off-shelf Pave and cross wheels this weekend. Last year we were the first carbon wheel to ever finish at Flanders as well as having 2 wheelsets ridden to finish at Paris Roubaix, with no other wheel company or team ever even attempting to ride carbon wheels at either of these events (other than carbon fairing type wheels which use a non-structural carbon fairing bonded to a standard aluminum rim).
Sausagetail
Apr 3, 06 8:44
Post #13 of 29
(26133 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [joshatzipp]
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Why isn't there a pave version of clincher 404s? Or are they inherently stronger than the regular tubular 404s such that a pave version is unnecessary?
joshatzipp
Apr 3, 06 11:03
Post #14 of 29
(26061 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [Bitey]
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No need for the Pave in the clincher as the carbon body acts as a leaf spring under the aluminum hoop allowing the hoop to absorb significantly higher shock loads than a standard aluminum rim. This is why you will see Mike Curiak and other ultra-distance mountain bikers using standard 505 rims on 29" mtn bikes. They have found that the rims last much longer than even standard mountain rims while providing improved ride quality (as well as killer mud shedding capacity). And no, we will not warranty the rims when used like this, but as for any conceivable road/pave/cyclocross usage, the clincher 303/404 wheels are some of the strongest ever produced.
Here's the race palmares from the set of 404's shown in the photos according to Mike:
When I first received them I laced them up to Hugi 240
rim-brake
hubs with stout (DT Competition) spokes, then I rode the $#!& out of them that season. A smattering of the events they were used for that year:
2002 142-mile Kokopelli Trail Race--1st place
2002 360-mile Grand Loop race--DNF
2002 24 Hour World Championships--2nd place, singlespeed
After that long summer of riding, guiding, and racing, tickled with their performance but tired of rim brakes, I relaced the 404 rims with DT Swiss 240s
disc-brake
hubs, SuperComp spokes, and fitted them onto a new frame for the next season. Highlights from that year included:
2003 Kokopelli Trail Race--1st place, course record
2003 Grand Loop--1st place, course record
2003 2500-mile Great Divide Race--DNF
2003 24 Hour World Championships--2nd place, singlespeed
In all the training and racing miles I rarely needed to true or tension the wheels, so I concluded that they were as-yet overbuilt. Following that season I again relaced the same set of 404 rims, this time using very light (DT Swiss Revolution) spokes. Then I installed them onto a new frame and went racing.
2004 Kokopelli Trail Race--1st place, course record
2004 2500-mile Great Divide Race--1st place, course record
2004 Sweet Roll 200 race--DNF
For the record that's 10,400 offroad miles. We now have the rear in our factory and the front hangs at the DTSwiss headquarters in Colorado.
cerveloguy
Apr 3, 06 11:24
Post #15 of 29
(26018 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie]
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A friend of mine cracked his 404 rim. I don't know if this is typical, but I tend to think race wheels are best for racing and you should get some bombproof training wheels for the rest of the time.
sbr140.6
Apr 3, 06 11:41
Post #16 of 29
(26004 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie]
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Check these new bad boys out from HED:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/tech/features/Stalingrad/Stalingrad.pdf
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/apr06/apr01newsspecial
Mito Chondria
Apr 3, 06 12:02
Post #17 of 29
(25971 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [Longboarder]
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Learn how to adjust your rear derailleur OR pay the bike shop to do it. Should still be cheaper than damaging an expensive race wheel. Why use a race wheel in training? Where is the special factor for racing?
“The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.” -Michelangelo
MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.
CanIronClyde
Apr 3, 06 12:50
Post #18 of 29
(25928 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie]
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Get some cheap training wheels for training (ie you can get a pair of double/triple laced, 32 spoke Mavic CXP22's with 105 hubs for about $250 Cdn.)
I'm 6'7" and 220-225lbs and ride regular 404 clinchers for racing and have never had a problem over 2 IM, a half and several shorter races.
Good luck
trimark
Aug 14, 07 7:03
Post #19 of 29
(25370 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [CanIronClyde]
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Bump...
slightly different discussion, same topic (and 'allo big-un!).
I have a zipp 606 wheelset I race one, pretty good so far limited mileage.
However, I'm having increasing problems with my training wheels, a pair of 4yr old Rolf Vector Pro's. Hubs and rims are ok, but I've busted spoke almost 1 in 3 rides lately. So I'm looking for a good pair of durable BLACK wheels. I'm tempted to get a set of zipp 404 clydesdales but am concerned about a few years time when the spokes start to go again.
The problem with the Rolfs now is you take them into a bike shop while travelling or along way from home to get a spoke replaced and they either can't or won't touch them. So, I'd like a wheelset that travel well and can be repaired easily, which doesn't really seem to be the Zipp 404 Clydesdale wheelset...
Comments/Opinions ??
++Mark.
http://triman.livejournal.com
Cliveds
Aug 14, 07 8:26
Post #20 of 29
(25305 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [trimark]
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Take a look at the mavic Cosmic carbone, I would say the zipp are strong enough and will hold out fine but the Mavics are perhaps a better option for you application.
Clive de Sousa
More on my blog:
http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/
electusunus
Feb 25, 11 20:57
Post #21 of 29
(12952 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [trimark]
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trimark wrote:
Bump...
slightly different discussion, same topic (and 'allo big-un!).
I have a zipp 606 wheelset I race one, pretty good so far limited mileage.
However, I'm having increasing problems with my training wheels, a pair of 4yr old Rolf Vector Pro's. Hubs and rims are ok, but I've busted spoke almost 1 in 3 rides lately. So I'm looking for a good pair of durable BLACK wheels. I'm tempted to get a set of zipp 404 clydesdales but am concerned about a few years time when the spokes start to go again.
The problem with the Rolfs now is you take them into a bike shop while travelling or along way from home to get a spoke replaced and they either can't or won't touch them. So, I'd like a wheelset that travel well and can be repaired easily, which doesn't really seem to be the Zipp 404 Clydesdale wheelset...
Comments/Opinions ??
++Mark.
http://triman.livejournal.com
Curious why a Zipp 404 Clydesdale would be a wheel not to travel with? I think Zipp wheels are a lot more durable than people give them credit for.
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Rappstar
Feb 25, 11 21:08
Post #22 of 29
(12938 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [trimark]
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Absolutely they are strong enough. And ANY shop can rebuild them. They don't need crazy spoke tension or spokes or anything. They are built just like any normal wheel. Easy to build. Easy to repair. And very durable.
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nebmot
Feb 25, 11 21:54
Post #23 of 29
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Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [Rappstar]
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That's the second time this week, this thread is 5 years old. =]
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The Real Animal
Feb 26, 11 3:44
Post #24 of 29
(12804 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [afie]
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afie wrote:
Clydesdales have a few more spokes and rims that are 35g more. The Cross version have the same heavier rims 28/28 spokes and tougher hubs.
Hey Dude, do you see a lot of problems with Zipp hubs or the rims?
I already have a great pair of training wheels but was looking for something to race with. I dont see much point spending $1500 on a pair of wheels
if you are only going to use them a couple of times a year to race
.
I am looking for something that can stand up to constant abuse (from road, my weight and power), and if the normal Zipp tubulars would not be up to that, I would consider something stronger.
That there is the problem. People need to race more. A couple of times a year? Heck, I'm in Aus and I race at least once if not twice or three times a week using either the time trial or road bike - and I'm not even serious I just do it for hits and giggles.
jackmott
Feb 26, 11 5:22
Post #25 of 29
(12755 views)
Re: Are Zipp 404's strong enough? [SwBkRn44]
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SwBkRn44 wrote:
I understand what you are saying, but race wheels are just that, race wheels. If you use them everyday then you lose that physical and mental advantage of putting them on for a race.
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