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Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike?
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I learned an expensive lesson last weekend when my car windows were smashed and 2010 Trek 2.3 was stolen in the middle of the afternoon.

I'm 27 years old and about 155 lbs when racing. Last summer I burned out on racing marathons year round and fell in love with the bike again. On the 2.3 I rode Timberman 70.3 (my first triathlon) in 2:45, which is ok on 90 miles per week, but there's room for improvement. This summer i'd like to try to make cat 4 and maybe do another 70.3.

My main question is, with a budget of $2-3k, what should I replace my 2.3 with? That price seems puts me in a position where i could get a carbon frame with the 105 5800 groupset (Trek Domane 4.5), or an aluminum frame with Ultegra 6800 (Trek Emonda Alr 6 or Caad12). To be honest, i've never ridden a carbon frame before so I don't know what i'm missing out on. When I was climbing with the 2.3 I never thought to myself - "wow, my bike is really holding me back right now". It was always, "hey fatass, don't have Oreos for breakfast". I doubt i'd actually be able to tell the difference between Ultegra and 105. I'd also like to get some feedback on the quality of carbon on this tier of bikes. The other wildcard is down the line I would like to invest in a power meter and nicer wheels.

I'd like something a bit racier than my 2.3. This weekend I plan to look at some Treks, Specialized Allez or Tarmac, Cannondale, and maybe Cervelo. What's a blind spot in my logic i'm not considering?
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Wonnk13] [ In reply to ]
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I've owned a Cervelo Dual (aluminum), Cervelo P3SL (aluminum), and Cervelo P4 (carbon). I cannot tell ANY differences between the ride quality of the frames.

Comfort is determined by fit and contact points (saddle, bar tape, shoes, and elbow pads).

Shimano 105 is more than enough performance unless you want electronic.

Based on your budget, buy an aero road bike such as a Cervelo S2 or Felt AR 5. If you buy last year's model, you'll have enough money left over to pick up a solid power meter such as Powertap C1 or Hed Jet race wheels.
Last edited by: Nick B: Feb 12, 16 14:00
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Wonnk13] [ In reply to ]
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You may notice a difference between carbon and aluminum, but many people will read things or hear something from the salesperson, and then it "becomes true" as they think it during their test ride.

Well adjusted drivetrains all shift pretty well when new, but higher end groupsets tend to wear better after the first season or so. New cables and housing help alot, but the rear shifting on 105 will eventually feel sloppier. It might take you 10,000+ miles, but if you plan to ride this bike for a few years it should be considered.

-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Wonnk13] [ In reply to ]
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Not speaking to those models in particular, but just in general ~ I'd always advise going for the higher-level frame (within reason); you can always upgrade individual components later as they wear out or you desire a specific upgrade (even a whole drivetrain group). Wheels are another obvious candidate.
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Wonnk13] [ In reply to ]
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You can upgrade the components easily. You can even upgrade them one at a time as funds allow it.

Can't upgrade the frame as easily.

Frame material does not matter as much as frame quality, aero, and how well it fits you.

Yeah look at a P2. I'd probably be on one if they fit me. But they don't.
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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Hrmm, good suggestion. Felt wasn't even on my radar.
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Wonnk13] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a frame first guy, that being said, a good aluminium frame is better than a crappy carbon one. I work for a specialized dealer so I am biased, but an Allez sprint or regular Allez withe the DSW frame would serve you well. As for carbon, the lower level bikes tend to be heavy, I would look for used in any case, lots of stuff out there and more bang for your buck used.


Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Jim] [ In reply to ]
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Jim wrote:
I'm a frame first guy, that being said, a good aluminium frame is better than a crappy carbon one. I work for a specialized dealer so I am biased, but an Allez sprint or regular Allez withe the DSW frame would serve you well. As for carbon, the lower level bikes tend to be heavy, I would look for used in any case, lots of stuff out there and more bang for your buck used.

yea, coming from a 2.3 my default mindset is to grab a top end Emonda Alr or Caad12 instead of a "bottom barrel" carbon model. I definitely need to put some time into looking at used stuff as well.
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Wonnk13] [ In reply to ]
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Components come and go, but framesets are forever!

@davempratt
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [djastroman] [ In reply to ]
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I love my caad 10. But aren't metal frames in general subject to drooping or fatigue. I thought I read something like that. Can't seem to find examples, but maybe I'm googling the wrong key words.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [TheForge] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know, but I still ride my late 70's Belgian lugged steel Libertas all the time. It's a beaut.



@davempratt
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Wonnk13] [ In reply to ]
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Carbon frame first, you will drop more weight out of the bike from Carbon than from a groupset and get a stronger frame. The big difference between 105 and Ultegra is the weight and later on you can change the groupset to something else if you wish or upgrade with the power meter to a better component that the power meter replaces.
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [djastroman] [ In reply to ]
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djastroman wrote:
Components come and go, but framesets are forever!

Bespoke steel or Titanium is forever. Carbon is disposable and anything you buy will be passe in a couple of years. This is especially true with the move to disk brakes and the looming switch to wireless electronic groups.

Right now for ~$2K I would get:

~$700 FM066 Open mould carbon frame
~$1000 Campy Chorus groupset
~$300 saddle, bars, pedals
Use one of my wheelsets for wheels
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Wonnk13] [ In reply to ]
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I've had an aluminum bike the past 3 years and just picked up a carbon tri bike. I've been riding that pretty excusively since. I got on my aluminum bike during a group ride we all typically ride tri bikes in. I didn't notice much of a difference between the materials until I hit a higher cycling cadence. The aluminum frame was very noticeable with how much it would start flexing up and down. Other than that I never noticed a difference between the two ride wise.
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Wonnk13] [ In reply to ]
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I'd buy an Aluminum frame with 105 components, and then invest in a power meter- probably a Quarq. You'll make more gains with proper training than you will with a few hundred grams off your gear.

Edit: if I were you, I'd first shell out some cash to get a good bike fit. I mean a really good fit. Then I'd base my decision on those numbers after chatting about it with the fitter. That will mean so much more in terms of comfort (not to mention power) than a carbon frame.
Last edited by: afrizzledfry: Feb 12, 16 16:07
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Wonnk13] [ In reply to ]
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105 5700 components work excellent !!!!! as good as my 6800 Ultegra .. so no worry bout current 11 speed components.
your budget will allow you to choose a bike that you can really love. compare geometry between your old trek and new bike... and have at it.

Have fun!
Jeff

You can't fix stupid ..
Last edited by: Mister944: Feb 13, 16 5:14
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah look at a P2. I'd probably be on one if they fit me. But they don't.

It fits. -35 degree stems are totally ok to use.

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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [TheForge] [ In reply to ]
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TheForge wrote:
I love my caad 10. But aren't metal frames in general subject to drooping or fatigue. I thought I read something like that. Can't seem to find examples, but maybe I'm googling the wrong key words.

Just another old myth

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [Wonnk13] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say get a cross bike with new tiagra it's really nice then slap a power meter on that sucker, a cross bike is just more fun imo. I have a trek 1.5 for my roadie and wish I had a cross so I could pedal around off road also buy like a 08 p2 for tri. That should be around 3k
Last edited by: eggplantOG: Feb 13, 16 12:20
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Re: Do you value group set or frame material more when shopping for a bike? [eggplantOG] [ In reply to ]
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Frame fit is king. After that, I say material. A carbon bike will race much better (for me) than a ti or steel one, but I'm just as unlikely to miss a shift with DA as with Ultegra (i.e., not very).
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