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"Runner's Knee" – can I cycle?
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In my great (lack of) wisdom, I thought arbitrarily bumping up my run volume to last season's high (50mpw) from roughly 20mpw in the matter of two weeks was a fantastic idea.

Well, now I've been dealing with a sore knee for the past two weeks. I thought some time off from running and only riding would help it. It doesn't necessarily hurt when I'm riding (I did an FTP test yesterday and felt fine throughout the entire workout), but I have noticed that when I get done, it starts to hurt and generally gets worse throughout the day, even sitting down for the majority. It's not excruciating pain in the least, but it's definitely enough for me to know that I shouldn't be running on it.

What do the resident ST "doctors" say? I make a half-assed effort to stay consistent with rolling/stretching/strengthening, but it never really sticks. Ideally, I think it's from my severe lack of flexibility and lack of glute/quad/hamstring strength... Should I just do a swim block and focus on stretching/strengthening? Should I ride?

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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There are a few causes of runner's knee, so it's hard to know how it will react to cycling. You could get on a bike and try it. Faster cadence is usually easier on knees because you're not pushing down as hard. You can try different cadences, etc. to see what, if anything, works.
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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There is something real called "runners knee?"

I thought it was a myth invented by non-runners.
(The condition seems to appear only when non-runners explain why they can't get in shape).

That said, such a thing might exist.
I would treat it like any other inexplicable ache and pain.
(And running produces lots of those).
I would ignore it- if it isn't too bad.
Ice it and take a couple if days off it is bad.
I wouldn't stop cycling or swimming.
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [dirtymangos] [ In reply to ]
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I have gained weight since last season. Clearly the actual cause of my pain manifesting in other segments of my body. :(

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [dirtymangos] [ In reply to ]
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I thought runners knee was ITBand issues?

I couldn't cycle when it was bad.
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [dirtymangos] [ In reply to ]
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dirtymangos wrote:
There is something real called "runners knee?"

In my experience (no, I am not a doc) what people refer to as "runner's knee" is usually Patella Tendonitis. That is inflammation of the tendons connecting to your kneecap (patella). I've had it a couple of times. GoogleFu is good here but basically from what seemed to effect me was muscular imbalance between hammies and quads. The quads weren't strong enough. That was before I rode the bike a lot. Now that I do tri and ride a lot, no issue. Knock on wood.

In my experience, I could usually ride the bike easy effort when I had Runner's Knee. After a week or maybe two, the knee was fine and I could run again. YMMV.
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry. Not a doctor here. But I've had "runner's knee", which is technically called patellofemoral pain syndrome. Here's an article by an expert I trust - http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/...article.php?id=56036. It's a bit technical, but bottom line is that PFPS is probably caused by hip weakness. Strengthening exercises would be things like single leg squats and "clams" (just Google it, you lie on your side and use a resistance band to open and close your legs). In my experience, with these types of injuries (I've had PFPS, plantar fasciitis, tibialis posterior/anterior and peroneal tendon problems...I'm a big guy) resting only helps to a point. If you don't do anything about the underlying strength/flexibility issues then they'll just come back after you've rested.

That is assuming you have runner's knee...
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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If your knee is worse after cycling, why would you continue pushing it and extending the time to full recovery? Do you have an A-race that's just around the corner?

Nanoo Nanoo
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [-W-] [ In reply to ]
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Though no one knows 100% what causes Runner's Knee, it is thought to be related to muscle imbalances.

I have had this a few times and it usually occurs when I quit foam rolling AND strength training. As far as cycling goes, YES you are OK to continue as long as it does NOT exacerbate the pain. Actually, if its truly just Runner's Knee, cycling should not exacerbate the problem. If it does make your knee feel worse then don't do it and go see a sports med doc to make sure the diagnosis is correct
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [eye3md] [ In reply to ]
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Need more information... The type of rehab, stretching, and strengthening you do will depend on where the pain is and what tissue(s) are involved. As was mentioned above, Runner's Knee broadly defines PFPS - patellar femoral pain syndrome which has many different underlying causes. IT band, muscle imbalance, Patellar Tendon, Quad Tendon, Patellar tracking problems (usually the end result of a tendon or muscle problem), even arch collapse throwing off your kinetic chain as you hit higher milage (read: form deteriorating as you get tired). They can all result in "Runners Knee".

Generally speaking - overuse injuries will continue to get worse if you try to push through it. Once tendons and ligaments get inflamed, it can take some time for that to subside, and continual use will only make it worse. Blood flow to those areas is relatively poor, so it can take a long time to heal. My advice - with out knowing more specifics, is to rest, stretch, and restrict your work load to only those things that you can do pain free (during and after) for a week or so. Then slowly start adding in some running/cycling using pain as your guide. If it hurts, stop.
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [batman1425] [ In reply to ]
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Should also mention - though it's called Runners Knee, any activity that causes inflammation in the tissues surrounding the knee resulting in pain can (and typically is) called Runners Knee/PFPS. It's most common in runners, but people who exclusively cycle experience this as well - typically during big changes in work volume/intensity, bike fit/equipment changes, etc.
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [-W-] [ In reply to ]
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-W- wrote:
If your knee is worse after cycling, why would you continue pushing it and extending the time to full recovery? Do you have an A-race that's just around the corner?

This 100%. When my knee gets sore the only thing that settles it down is complete rest. The sooner I realize this, the shorter the layoff is. When I try to push through with 'crosstraining' it will eventually get to a point where it hurts no matter what I do, and the layoff is longer.

Once it is painfree you can get to work on figuring out why it happened and implement a plan to prevent a recurrence.

______________________________________________________________

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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [-W-] [ In reply to ]
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-W- wrote:
If your knee is worse after cycling, why would you continue pushing it and extending the time to full recovery? Do you have an A-race that's just around the corner?

Because many people don't heed this advice:

Patient: It only hurts when I do X.
Doctor: Then don't do X
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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Relative rest is the key term here- doing less than what provokes your pain. From your description, it seems likely that bending your knee actually aggravates your symptoms. While movement on the bike feels good, it could be the sitting with your knee flexed afterward is the problem. Do you have stiffness and difficulty straightening your knee after being sedentary for a period of time? If so, you are likely losing active range of motion and may benefit from regaining full terminal knee extension and hyperextension if applicable. Do not automatically assign pain to inflexibility if you were functioning fine with inflexible hamstrings, then you drammatically increase training- inflexible hamstrings are not the problem. Check out the knee joint first, if that proves to be healthy and without loss of active range of motion (even small amounts can be problematic) then look elsewhere.
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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I have runners knee, and I am able to ride a bike just fine. I get a little bit of tenderness in the knee area while riding, but nothing compared to what I get while running. So I think you should be fine cycling with runners knee, but all people are different and you pain might be a little different then mine, and make it so you can't cycle.

Jeff Brown - Georgia
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [JSully] [ In reply to ]
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JSully wrote:
I thought runners knee was ITBand issues?

I couldn't cycle when it was bad.

Yes it is. Some can, some can't. The problem with ITBS, is it's not a matter of just resting it. It's a matter of fixing hte root cause which is both a issue of flexibility and mechanics due to some muscle imbalance or weakness. For myself at least, rest, ice, massage, chiro did nothing. Lots of good stretching fixed it.

For myself cycling aggravated it somewhat, but not too bad. I had to keep the duration of a the rides moderate until I was back to a consistent run volume.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: "Runner's Knee" – can I cycle? [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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It's important to understand what exactly you are calling, "Runner's Knee"

As noted - some call ITB Syndrome "Runner's Knee", because the pain, is often found laterally, on the knee - but that is NOT where the problem is. The problem is higher in the lateral fascia of the upper leg, and deep in the hamstrings and glutes up Cycling with ITB can make this worse - even though it may not feel painful to ride.

Patellar Femoral Syndrome is usually related to tracking issues of the patella - if it's slightly (even a mm one way or the other) you get some dull achy pain in the patella itself. In this case it's important to know which way the patella is getting pulled - medially or laterally. The more common, direction for the pull is laterally - from tightness (but not full blown ITB Syndrome - see above) in the ITB/Hamstring/glute complex - a common issue with runners and cyclists for that matter. Here, you want to focus exclusively on the medial head of the quadriceps muscle - strengthening that with leg extension work ONLY through the final 30 degrees to horizontal can often yeild dramatic results and session pf pain after a few days of work on this.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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