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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [test] [ In reply to ]
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The overall winner is FOP. The last person to finish is BOP.
Everyone else is MOP.

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [friesen] [ In reply to ]
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friesen wrote:
For someone in their 30s, you can finish in the top 50 overall including pros, and be nowhere near an age group podium

If you are nowhere near your age group podium, I would consider you MOP. I'm sure others would disagree. But my logic is that FOP are racing to win, so tactics play a big part. MOP are racing for a PB.

In the ITU, there are usually less than 10 athletes who realistically think they are a chance of winning (so they are FOP), The rest of the field is aiming for a top 10, top 20, or maybe top 3 within their nationality (MOP).
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [blaxxuede] [ In reply to ]
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blaxxuede wrote:
This
Ellsworth53T wrote:
If you ain't first, you're last.



I was High when I said that......that doesn't make any sense at all......you can be 2nd,3rd......

What? I've lived my whole life by that!
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [test] [ In reply to ]
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The mean plus or minus a standard deviation is MOP. Outside of that is FOP or BOP.
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [cshowe80] [ In reply to ]
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cshowe80 wrote:

FOP - You are counting athletes as you approach the turn around to gauge your effort for a push
MOP - You don't count anybody at turn arounds but you may mark somebody you intend to pass before the finish line
BOP - You are enjoying your day and not worrying about placing, pushing too deep, and turn arounds mean nothing to you

I agree with your definition of FOP and MOP, but disagree with BOP.

There are some BOP who are completing the distance, rather than racing. But there are also BOP athletes who are trying just as hard as the FOPs and MOPs.

Does an elite 2h10m Marathoner think the 3h00m marathoners are walking part of the course to finish in such a slow time.
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [RobInOz] [ In reply to ]
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I'll agree with that. I meant they are more so racing themselves and trying to out do what they've done. Enjoying the fact they are reaching new heights. It's more of an internal thing or at least that's how it was for me when I was BOP.

------
"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [Ellsworth53T] [ In reply to ]
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Ellsworth53T wrote:
If you ain't first, you're last.

That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth... hell you can even be fifth.
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [test] [ In reply to ]
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Of my IM finishes, my first couple I was about 95th percentile.

1 was a field of about 85 from memory. I think 79 finishers and I was 72 or 73. Even with almost 3 hours to the cutoff, I was clearly BOP.
Next one my back blew up (broke my back several years before) and I was again, one of the last finishers, but that was a 15:30 cutoff at IMNZ back in the day. Clearly BOP again

All the rest I've been almost exactly the same time (as each other, not the ones above) and that's got me almost exactly at the 50th percentile, so clearly MOP regardless of how you slice the pie

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [TriMyBest] [ In reply to ]
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TriMyBest wrote:
People spend too much time contemplating this pointless shit when they could be training or sleeping.

Like

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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [RobInOz] [ In reply to ]
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What about the winner of a slower age group that finishes 300th overall? U consider them fop, but a non podium 30 something that finishes top 50 or top 100 to be mop?
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [test] [ In reply to ]
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I'm pretty fop I guess I won like 20 im's this season after I strolled my way to victory at like 50 halves and I smashed a short course everyday as a warmup sub 7 hour im racer here ran 2 03 off the bike at kona easy no biggie look me up jan van alexander kienle my race results is lit fam 100
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [test] [ In reply to ]
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test wrote:
I always hear guys say they're FOP or MOP. Sometimes I look up their results and that FOP brag really seems like more of a MOP, or the MOP seems more like BOP. If you hear FOP or MOP or BOP, where do you think that person finished?
How do you guys break down race results into FOP/MOP/BOP? Top 33% / middle 33% / bottom 33%? Breaking it into thirds doesn't seem to make sense as the FOP seems like it should be a smaller proportion of finishers.

Is FOP the top 5%, 10%, 20%? Then do you split the rest of the field in two? Top 20% / middle 40% / bottom 40%?

Or is MOP the biggest group? Top 20% / middle 60% / bottom 20%?

If you really want to put a percentage to it, I tend to think its' around 10%/40%/50% by total participants. In running, it's more like 5%/25%/70% due to extremely large participation of recreational athletes. Just my observation. Triathlon has a broader FOP, MOP because there's 3 disciplines so the degree of difficulty at being good at all 3, means there's a larger spread despite overall ability being fairly narrow.


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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [friesen] [ In reply to ]
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friesen wrote:
What about the winner of a slower age group that finishes 300th overall? U consider them fop, but a non podium 30 something that finishes top 50 or top 100 to be mop?

I would define it as it pertains to the AG placing as that's where the podiums and awards live.

The M65-69 winner at Kona is certainly not FOP overall, probably BOP without looking at results, but he's certainly FOP in his AG. Nobody expects a FOP 65 year old to be on par with a FOP guy half his age.

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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [blaxxuede] [ In reply to ]
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I've lived my whole life by that!
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [friesen] [ In reply to ]
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friesen wrote:
What about the winner of a slower age group that finishes 300th overall? U consider them fop, but a non podium 30 something that finishes top 50 or top 100 to be mop?

It is measured either by overall or by age group, which ever one gets you closer to FOP.
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [test] [ In reply to ]
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test wrote:
I always hear guys say they're FOP or MOP. Sometimes I look up their results and that FOP brag really seems like more of a MOP, or the MOP seems more like BOP. If you hear FOP or MOP or BOP, where do you think that person finished?
How do you guys break down race results into FOP/MOP/BOP? Top 33% / middle 33% / bottom 33%? Breaking it into thirds doesn't seem to make sense as the FOP seems like it should be a smaller proportion of finishers.

Is FOP the top 5%, 10%, 20%? Then do you split the rest of the field in two? Top 20% / middle 40% / bottom 40%?

Or is MOP the biggest group? Top 20% / middle 60% / bottom 20%?

At bigger races, I consider FOP to be top 10% overall and AG podiums (even if they're not top 10%).

At a smaller race, FOP are the top OA podiums.

As for MOP and BOP, meh, they're just not FOP. I don't bother with putting them into a category.
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [friesen] [ In reply to ]
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friesen wrote:
What about the winner of a slower age group that finishes 300th overall? U consider them fop, but a non podium 30 something that finishes top 50 or top 100 to be mop?

If the number of athletes in an age group is less than 10, the whole FOP, MOP & BOP starts to become irrelevant and you find athletes winning their category by default due to lack of competition (if you can't beat them, out live them). However I still see some athletes in the 60 to 64 age group (male and female) who put out some spanking times.

In general, if you can turn up to any race and expect to be fighting for the win regardless of the size and quality of the field in your age group, then you are FOP. Whereas if you win your age group because none of the fast competitors turned up, you are still MOP (or in some cases BOP).

The athlete who finishes around 90th overall and 12th in the 30 to 34 age group, is definitely MOP. And unless they improve their training and performance will continue to be MOP as they progress through the age groups. The winner of the 30-34 age group today will probably be the winner of 60-64 age group in 30 years time. And note that once you reach 40, you are often competing against retired professional athletes, so make the most of it in your 30's.
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [RobInOz] [ In reply to ]
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I think we are looking at this from different perspectives. You are thinking of it as middle of the pack(or front of pack) in your specific age group. I don't care that much about age group, I care about overall field. I don't care if I finish 3rd, or 10th, or 15th in my age group, I care about the 20, or 30, or 50 people that beat me. So, I, as well as many others might be mop in my age group, it's been years since I didn't finish in the top 2-3% of the overall field
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Re: FOP, MOP, BOP [friesen] [ In reply to ]
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friesen wrote:
I think we are looking at this from different perspectives. You are thinking of it as middle of the pack(or front of pack) in your specific age group. I don't care that much about age group, I care about overall field. I don't care if I finish 3rd, or 10th, or 15th in my age group, I care about the 20, or 30, or 50 people that beat me. So, I, as well as many others might be mop in my age group, it's been years since I didn't finish in the top 2-3% of the overall field

My perspective for a FOP is - are you racing to win. Are you employing tactics and taking risks like surging to deliberate drop your competitors. Or are you pacing your own race, avoiding surges, purely looking for a PB.

The problem with the overall standings, is that unless you are in the elite wave, most of your competition is starting in different waves. So you don't actually know where you stand until the results come out. So the only people you are using race tactics against are the athletes in your wave.

My above arguments fall apart a little when considering age groupers racing Ironman. But they apply to the pros. In Kona, the ones looking to win will take risks and it is common for them to blow up. Whereas you will get other pros just concentrating on their own race (cos they don't believe they can win) and they sneak into the top 10 (as a result of potentially faster athletes blowing up).

Important to remember that there is no correct answer, we are simply arguing about our own opinions of arbitrary terminology.
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