For every kilo you are over your ideal running weight will cost you 3-3.5% in time. Within reason, extremes at either end will not fit this guide.

I do wonder though if the same loss occurs for 1 pound of water carried, versus 1 extra pound of body fat. I know there has to some loss (hence my original question), but I wonder if the weight penalties are equal.

Probably just splitting hairs.

Edit: the bottle or carrier will get lighter as you drink it , the fat won't go away.

Another option is possibly to walk the aid stations fast to be sure to get the fluids in rather than on you. Gels leading up to and aid station so it can be chased with fluid.

gel every 5 miles, water every station, coke once I'm desperate. carry a bottle out of T2 with EFS that is usually gone in 5 minutes. Kona is different, way more energy drink, no gel and more water.

cool. I think this post adds a lot of context that makes the above post which I was questioning make more sense. Definitely an interesting approach of 3 rest days per 9 day cycle with some workouts in there that would otherwise be considered really tough, but with a full rest day are manageable.

Yeh they are tough, BUT also very specific to the demands of the race :) That long brick and 2/3rds long run the next day is followed by a swim session in the afternoon to finish off the block. = Basically an IM in two days. Broken up so it builds you not breaks you :) SPECIFIC

Would you care to expand on why you did not "get to the run leg"??? Crash on bike, or mech difficulties, or problem on swim???

Also, just out of sheer curiosity, how's your swim pace???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Just over the hour for the swim normally and suspect I had food poisoning.Vomiting from wake up in the morning but still had a go anyway. Pulled the pin 3hours into the bike. Was about only 10mins behind expected pace but couldn't keep nutrition down.

Ah, i see, i've had food poisoning about 2-3 times in my life to date, including once during a race, albeit an oly dist. Swim went fine but i was pretty slow on B and R.

Going 1 hr-ish on the swim is pretty good for being such a fast runner:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Coke + some salt pills was the only that worked for my stomach when I was able to run sub 3.30.
Now - older and slower running anything works.

Not sure if you would consider a 3:24 IM run "fast" but what I do is carry 2 packages of Powerbar Performance Blasts (200cal each) and 3 Powerbar caffeinated gels. I go through the Blasts first eating half a package every 25 minutes, plus picking up some on-course Gatorade or whatever sports drink. Once the blasts run out I go to the caffeinated gels, one every 25 minutes. I like to save the caffeine for the end of the race when I need the extra boost. I find if I start on the caffeine too early I feel like I run out of gas faster, so I keep that stuff to the end. I also use Base Salt pretty much ahead of every aid station and then pick up fluids to wash it down.

FWIW - I came very close to breaking 3 hours a few times in IM runs.

I would nimble on a bar for the first hour if I could handle that with appropriate water. Then switch to coke/water at almost every aid station for the last 2 hours to 90 minutes.

This was the pre-gel days, back in the late 80's and early 90's. If I was doing it today, I would use couple of gel's in the first hour as opposed to a bar. Just grab those at an aid station if they were available. If not, carry a couple out of T2 with me.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I wanted to chime in here and give what has worked for me for a good marathon stand alone and also for a IM marathon. I have run a 2:26 open and ran 3:01 lat year in whistler, and ran 3:10 in tahoe this year. Couple things that make all the difference is getting fluids down. I learned this from racing the marathon only and carried to IM racing. You need to be getting 8fl oz of fluids down every 5k in the run. For me thats osmo mixed with a little redbull for the caffeine. For the IM i now wear a Nathan fuel belt with 2 10oz bottles on it and have 2 more bottles ready for in the run special needs bag. I start the run with the 2 on me and another in my hand and sip on them making sure I have a bottle gone every 5k and its not a slam a bottle its a sip the whole time. I use this and will carry some gummy bears and take some where around mile 8-9 and then again around mile 20 and suck on them for the sugar. If I get a negative thought in my head on the run then I will take a gummy bear because I need the sugar. The rest of the time I always grab a water or 2 at every stop and dump on me to keep cool. Once I have gone through all the bottle i go to coke the rest of the way. Big thing is practicing on long run to get fluids down, it takes some time but once you get your golden. No food on run all fluids, I eat picky bars 5total on the bike for fuel. Hope that helps let me know if any other questions. Oh the big thing practice your race pace and dont blow the run in the first mile because you feel great.

RL

+1 for Infinit Napalm in a small Hammer flask. You can fit a surprising amount of calories into one of those things. I had 500kcal in there and it came out like water. No thickness whatsoever. It's not much to carry and you get your water from the aid stations, so you don't have to worry about carrying too much weight. You get to dictate your total fluid intake based on conditions and how your bike fueling went too. Once you run out ~halfway through you either have another one in special needs or you go to living off the course. Coke for the whole race is a bit much for me. I haven't tried, but I doubt I could do an entire race off of it. I have a pretty wimpy stomach though. The maltodextrin/dextrose/fructose blends with a moderately high electrolyte content do the best for me.

Big thing is practicing on long run to get fluids down, it takes some time but once you get your golden

YES!

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that to do really well in an Ironman you need to have a bit of an Iron-gut! The ability to keep moving at a good pace and keep the liquids and calories(however you chose to get them) going in.

- Some have this Iron-gut naturally
- Some can train to get an Iron-gut over time with many long runs, and lots of ingestion.
- Some will NEVER get it!

As to the last point, there should be no shame in this. I've known in my time some world class triathletes, who never seemed to get it, and be able to get in the calories they need in an Ironman. It's not a race/event for everyone!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Gel every 4-5 miles. Red bull in special needs. Water at most aid stations depending on the temperature. I might take a couple cups of sports drink as needed if I feel like the gels are enough.

Like some of the other replies, Coke at every aid station. 2 if I can stomach it and I can grab 2. If I feel like I need more fluids I'll grab anything else as well. I take in a lot of calories on the bike (2 waffles and at least 1 bottle of sports drink) so I feel like I'm in a good spot starting the run.

I practices this a lot, and sometimes began training runs with stitches, but learned I could run close to my goal pace until it passed, and that was better than risking starting the bike at a bigger calorie deficit.

Last two IM marathons this season were 3:06 and 3:08. All I had was redbull at one station, coke at the next throughout the whole marathon. At Arizona last weekend I also added a gu, a few pretzels, and a banana.

I think having redbull on course this year has been pretty amazing. I will be lost without it when/if they don't offer it.

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New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com

Interesting. When I have Red Bull my HR spikes to over 200bpm. Not that I think it is doing 200bpm. I actually think it goes into arythmia. Have to stop and lay down to get it back to normal and then wait 20+mins for it to get out of my system. Only tried it in training (twice a year apart). Never touched it again.

Yes, go with Napalm from Infinit if you already like their custom stuff. It works great for me on the run(lots of sodium and lots of caffeine). I carried all my calories on the run in a nathan fuel belt and reloaded at the special needs bag. This way I just breeze thru the aid stations no stopping which for me gets me out of a nice pace/rhythm and overall mentally makes me feel faster. Plus I get drink on my time no matter how my pace is going...

Also agree with other folks about getting a bit extra on the bike since you not gonna be able to keep up with calorie intake on the run if you're going fast or at least I can't. My stomach doesn't like it all.

For me I carry 24 ozs(3x8oz flasks) to start the run and finish with 2 more. So at most I'm carting around 1.5 pounds...I also practice all this in my long runs so I'm used to the extra weight.

On top of this, it requires no thinking on my part. My watch goes off at a set time I take my nutrition. Simple. I've bombed on numerous marathons trying to remember to drink this or that at an aid station, skip this one because it's too close to the previous one, etc, etc. All this combined make it worth it for the time penalty by carrying the extra weight..

Good luck.

Interesting to read your response. I am a consistent sub3 marathoner but nowhere close to you. How do you fuel/hydrate during a free-standing 26.2?

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Colorado Triathlon Company, CO2UT 2021, Crooked Gravel 2022, Steamboat Gravel 2022

For the stand alone marathon I fuel just about same way. Up 3 hrs before race, will have a bowl of oatmeal, bagel and yogurt to eat. Sip on a coffee until an hr before race time. Fueling for the race 8oz of gatorade endurance every 5k. starting at 25k i add 2oz redbull to the gatorade for rest of the bottles. So in total i use 8 bottles of 8oz of fluids. The one thing different is that when I get a bottle at each 5k i take about a 1/2mi to 3/4mi to get it all down. That is my total fueling plan for the marathon very simple and easy dont need anything else. Hopefully that helps.

Can anyone thing of a reason Infinit Canada wouldn't have Napalm available (I've been googling the suggestions everyone's been giving me)?

Interesting... More fluids than I would usually take in (unless its quite hot). Similar pre-race plan to mine. Thanks for input!

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Colorado Triathlon Company, CO2UT 2021, Crooked Gravel 2022, Steamboat Gravel 2022

I either have to walk to get enough liquid down or keep running, take 3 cups to get 1 down, spilling the rest.

I want to sip at my own rate but I don't want to carry more than 10oz total.

Is there a way to refill a small bottle from the cups at the aid station without stopping? A bottle that is easy to run with and has a "big lid"?