Wonder if they'll invite Ray to the conference call...

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/limits-power-meter-creators-admit-crowdfunded-project-will-miss-schedule-201284

"Inconceivable."
"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

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I guess it's a good sign for backers that Limits seem to be actively reaching out to the cycling community to communicate their side of the story and clarify where they are with the project. I hope Cycling Weekly give them a proper grilling and don't let them get away with any more of that "marketing strategy" nonsense.

Limits got themselves into this whole PR mess by being somewhat subversive and economical with the truth in their advertising; I'd hope that they've learnt their lesson and that they've got something solid to base their anticipated delivery times on, because these look mighty optimistic at the moment:

�The first batch for backers will be received at the end of January, the second batch at the end of February and the third batch at the beginning of March�

Sorry, it is still vague since the statement from Limits about batches being received for backers only implies that Limits will have received the first batch, not that powermeters will have been shipped to the customer!

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Yes I agree, the language used certainly leaves room for "interpretation".

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what they have to say tomorrow. I'm not a backer and probably wouldn't buy one even if it went on general sale tomorrow, but I find the whole saga quite interesting.

Yep, very vague, and these dodgy-ass crowdfunded projects seem to recruit communications people who have majored in vague.

Either way you interpret it...I have trouble believing anything's showing up anywhere in January. If they were 8 weeks away, they'd be spamming the planet with substantive updates and eye-candy photos and stuff.

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

From the article...

Quote:

The project to make �the world�s smartest cycling meter� has fallen weeks behind schedule. Despite claims online that Limits will deliver its first power meters in December, Cycling Weekly has been told they won�t be ready for two months.

They're sure not helping themselves here. And then...

Quote:

The first batch for backers will be received at the end of January...

...Kontoliou says that Limits has committed to materials and has signed up with a manufacturer. She says the company has a prototype but did not say that the prototype was working.

I just don't see this ending well. And somewhere out there the original Vector team has a bucket of popcorn that should probably last them most of 2016 as they watch these folks repeat their nightmare from a few years ago.

I don't see mechanical dimensions anywhere on their website. In fact dimensions do not even appear in the spec sheet they provide as a download. They vaguely talk about "Q", but do not provide any numbers showing how these devices will change the "Q", or move the pedals further outboard. Being an insert at the pedal axle, these devices, with their strain gauges and slick software will have to properly discriminate between static and dynamic torque - the dynamic torque being the power that propels the bike forward. My guess is the company is having a hard time with accuracy.

One has to question the competence of this outfit. I wouldn't touch one with someone else's money. Probably junk.

According to their website, LIMITS has been used by Spokes Racing Team. why doesn't anyone check with Spokes to see if they actually used it?


LIMITS has been used by a number of the Spokes Racing Team and Club Members generating positive feedback with many of the cyclists reporting an improvement in foot position leading to an improvement in comfort, especially over longer rides. Analysis of this feedback highlighted that many cyclists knees track outward at the top of the pedal stroke adding unwanted stress on the knee and splaying the power outwards on an inefficient vector relative to the pedal travel. This outward tracking is typically addressed by adjusting cleat position or/and adding spacers between the cleat and shoe to intentionally narrow the knees all the way through the pedal stroke but this over recruits the stabilizers to track the knee on a unnatural plane, good pedal action involves as straight a vertical tracking of the knees as the riders physiology permits. LIMITS allows the cyclist to ride with a stance width that is comfortable and so allows the knee to track on the most vertically linear path as possible, it stands to reason that this action will put power directly down through the pedal.

http://www.spokesracingteam.bike/
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/club/profile/1802/spokes-racing-team

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http://www.cyclecoach.com
http://www.aerocoach.com.au

That first link has an embedded Youtube video. At 2:51 and again at 3:15 you can see that there's no head unit on her bike.

Translation:
"Our gizmo adds a metric shit-ton of Q, and because we can't engineer it away, we went looking for a way to justify it. Our scientific* study revealed that cyclists with poor bike fits could mask some of that fitting error by adding some Q, making our product a perfect choice for them."

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

That's interesting because Ray pointed out in his article about a status update that Limits provided on October 23rd.

�Up until now our outdoor trials have been short bursts run on prototype hardware. This is the first time we are testing LIMITS outdoors and this is a defining time in its development progress.� � Oct 23rd.

Pretty amazing that they can go from short bursts of testing outdoors on a prototype to providing them to a racing team and getting feedback in a matter of a month.

Read it carefully.

Nothing in that Limits' quotation mentions anything about power data.
You could just as easily have substituted a shoe, or a pedal, or a crank or cleat etc where they say "LIMITS" and have written exactly the same gibberish.

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http://www.cyclecoach.com
http://www.aerocoach.com.au

Yes, that is extremely deceiving.

One could also imply that their October 23rd status update also had nothing to do with power. For all we know they could have been doing their first outdoor testing on a shoe, pedal, etc as well.

Prototype Limits power meters to be available for testing in two weeks, says creator

So they are getting their first prototypes in 2 weeks and they still think they can deliver a finished product to customers by March?

Good luck with that.....these guys clearly have no idea what they are doing.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

T3 is a technology magazine. Nothing to do with triathlons ;)
Tomorrows Technology Today, T3

http://www.t3.com/news/t3-awards-2015

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http://www.thetrinerd.com

And now this from the Indiegogo Limits Powermeter crowdfunding site where they have collected $495K from 2000 backers:


darren talbot2 days ago
Can you give us an update on delivery dates?
Whilst I understand that a start-up takes a lot of time, communication is ignored at your peril, as you can see by the negative comments you are starting to receive.
Even if the news isn’t great, let people know so that their expectations are managed.

Paul van Wijk3 days ago
Any news?, any updates? and i do not mean updates about productionlines.

Michael Howe3 days ago
“To those of you asking us to re-open the crowdfunding campaign, please know that your interest has been addressed.” — who is asking you to reopen the crowdfunding campaign? By which communications channel? You are ignoring all concerns and requests for updates via the IGG project page and you haven’t responded to anything on Facebook. How are they able to get through to you while us backers’ concerns are ignored and we’re spoon-fed non-information?

Ian Routledge7 days ago
Agreed! What’s going on – more communication would be appreciated other than contributors

Carl Burton10 days ago
Does anyone other than us contributors read this?
Thanks

Ted Hartman11 days ago
Dcrainmaker saw the writing on the wall. if this comes true it will be next season before anyone can use this pm.

Ian Routledge13 days ago
ETA on delivery?

Hongbeom Kim13 days ago
D E L I V E R Y ?
hope there’s no more this and that.

Youngchi Hideharu Kim14 days ago
Thank you for the update.
But don’t avoid telling shipping status, which everyone is interested in.

Kim Viner14 days ago
So, I’m confused. Does this, “we’ve now entered production phase and will be shortly moving into shipping” mean that it has been evaluated by “independent” testers? If so, can we learn who they were and what the results have been? By this I mean more than just some additional graphs….actual reviews.






>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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3x IMFL now retired

Agreed. I joined the kickstarter campaign from Stryd after he had seen their prototype. Apart from them actually having *something* he gave it an air of credibility.

Oooh so you mean I can get a legal threat too?

Sort of a topic drift, but anyone have any opinions on what benefits the Limits Powermeter project will offer over the Favero bePRO Power Meter Pedals which are already on the market?

Edit: Bah, getting old and can't remember stuff! Just re-visited the Limits website and now realize that Limits affords the ability to use any pedal, such as Bebop or Speed Play!

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I think Ray has pointed out before a difference between Kickstarter and IndieGogo is IndieGogo is far less strict about the proof required by the project to establish it's not a scam.