Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max

Nov 6, 15 7:18

Post #1 of 21 (3620 views)

If you are interested in endurance and testing here you have the results from testing Olympic and World Champion medalist in winter endurance sports in Norway.
Fact sheet here:

http://www.olympiatoppen.no/...elt/media43123.media

Distance xc-skiers had VO2max of 84.3�5.2 mL∙kg∙min-1for men and 72.6�5.1 for women.

RESULTS:
For medal-winning athletes, the following relative VO2max values (mean:95% confidence intervals) for men/women were observed (mL � min-1 � kg-1): 84:87-81/72:77-68 for cross-country distance skiing, 78:81-75/68:73-64 for cross-country sprint skiing, 81:84-78/67:73-61 for biathlon, and 77:80-75 for Nordic combined (men only). Similar benchmarks for absolute VO2max (L/min) in male/female athletes are 6.4:6.1-6.7/4.3:4.1-4.5 for cross-country distance skiers, 6.3:5.8-6.8/4.0:3.7-4.3 for cross-country sprint skiers, 6.2:5.7-6.4/4.0:3.7-4.3 for biathletes, and 5.3:5.0-5.5 for Nordic combined (men only). The difference in relative VO2max between medalists and nonmedalists was large for Nordic combined, moderate for cross-country distance and biathlon, and small/trivial for the other disciplines. Corresponding differences in absolute VO2max were small/trivial for all disciplines. Male cross-country medalists achieve 15% higher relative VO2max than corresponding women http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25611016

Article from Fasterskier here (English) http://fasterskier.com/...release-vo2max-data/

I have not seen results from other countries but my guess is that they are in line with the Norwegian results.

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Halvard] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 7:27

Post #2 of 21 (3606 views)

Interesting. By no means is 84.3 low at all.. but I would have expected the mean to be closer to 88.

Wasn't Froome put at an estimate of 90 by his data release? I know froome is an outlier and World Class Cyclist, but I would have figured World Class XC skiers to be just a bit higher or equal to him.

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Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [ddalzell] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 7:34

Post #3 of 21 (3586 views)

ddalzell wrote:

Interesting. By no means is 84.3 low at all.. but I would have expected the mean to be closer to 88.

Wasn't Froome put at an estimate of 90 by his data release? I know froome is an outlier and World Class Cyclist, but I would have figured World Class XC skiers to be just a bit higher or equal to him.

The figure was 84.3 with variance of 5.2, which means that one athlete tested at 89.5.

Also, AFAIK Froome's results haven't been published yet.
I remember that the "training and racing with a power meter" FB page, which I believe is maintained by Andy Coggan, gave a prediction of 90.2(?). I have very little reason to doubt it other than because of it being really bloody high!

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Liaman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 7:40

Post #4 of 21 (3575 views)

Right, I saw that the variance was 5.2.. I just thought that the average number would have been closer to that 88-89 range

Yeah, I referenced the FB page that I have no reason to doubt due to who writes it.

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Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [ddalzell] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 7:48

Post #5 of 21 (3563 views)

You have skiers that have tested in the 90s, Espen Harald Bjerke, Bj�rn D�hlie, Tore Ruud Hofstad.

http://fasterskier.com/...-the-vo2-max-record/

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [ddalzell] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 7:49

Post #6 of 21 (3556 views)

One other point. Remember that skiers are heavier today than in the 80s and 90s. More upper body strength.

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Halvard] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 7:51

Post #7 of 21 (3551 views)

Halvard wrote:

One other point. Remember that skiers are heavier today than in the 80s and 90s. More upper body strength.

I'm not involved enough with the sport to know this. This makes more sense now. I just revert back to studies of V02 from earlier periods which is why this appeared low to me. Thank you for that insight

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COROS Sports Science

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Halvard] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 8:21

Post #8 of 21 (3516 views)

very interesting.

VO2max is a predictor of success in skiing. I think we all intuitively knew that.

This study just confirms to me that the best predictor of how fast you ski is...how fast you ski!

Having a big VO2max helps but you need to train the body to ski fast over the entire course. Think of Noah Hoffman and Ivan Babikov. Dudes probably have VO2max in the high 80s but it doesn't seem like they have the other skills to win races. It's not enough to ski fast uphill.

I would like to know how VO2max in double pole has changed over time. I would guess that running VO2max has been constant over time but that skiers can double pole at a much higher percentage of their running VO2max.

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [xcskier66] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 8:30

Post #9 of 21 (3500 views)

xcskier66 wrote:

very interesting.

VO2max is a predictor of success in skiing. I think we all intuitively knew that.

This study just confirms to me that the best predictor of how fast you ski is...how fast you ski!

Having a big VO2max helps but you need to train the body to ski fast over the entire course. Think of Noah Hoffman and Ivan Babikov. Dudes probably have VO2max in the high 80s but it doesn't seem like they have the other skills to win races. It's not enough to ski fast uphill.

I would like to know how VO2max in double pole has changed over time. I would guess that running VO2max has been constant over time but that skiers can double pole at a much higher percentage of their running VO2max.

I know it is a lot more focus on double poling, both in training but also testing.
In the junior cup in Norway last season the 17 year old boys really pushed the double poling, especially in classic sprints.
For seniors doing a 100k double poling session is not extreme. I have seen skiers doing 145k this season.

But since the double poling is not working the engine the same way as running, the athletes still have to do the running.

I am looking forward to this season, I think we will see a lot stronger women also.
And hopefully more test results regarding VO2max and double poling.

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Liaman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 11:35

Post #10 of 21 (3422 views)

Liaman wrote:

AFAIK Froome's results haven't been published yet.
I remember that the "training and racing with a power meter" FB page, which I believe is maintained by Andy Coggan, gave a prediction of 90.2(?). I have very little reason to doubt it other than because of it being really bloody high!

Based on the WKO4 prediction algorithm, the drips and drabs of Froome's power data that have already been released, and some assumptions, I've gone out on the limb and estimated Froome's VO2max as being 6.17 L/min. I'm looking forward to the release of his data to see how close to reality that is.

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Halvard] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 12:00

Post #11 of 21 (3395 views)

Halvard wrote:

You have skiers that have tested in the 90s, Espen Harald Bjerke, Bj�rn D�hlie, Tore Ruud Hofstad.

http://fasterskier.com/...-the-vo2-max-record/

As I'm sure you know, the highest-ever recorded VO2max (for a man) is generally credited to Oskar Svendsen, at 97.5 mL/min/kg. Interestingly, the club to which he belongs (belonged?) does not seem to subscribe to the "polarized" approach:

http://www.dn.no/...t-skyhoye-o2malinger

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 12:31

Post #12 of 21 (3361 views)

Andrew Coggan wrote:

Halvard wrote:

You have skiers that have tested in the 90s, Espen Harald Bjerke, Bj�rn D�hlie, Tore Ruud Hofstad.

http://fasterskier.com/...-the-vo2-max-record/

As I'm sure you know, the highest-ever recorded VO2max (for a man) is generally credited to Oskar Svendsen, at 97.5 mL/min/kg. Interestingly, the club to which he belongs (belonged?) does not seem to subscribe to the "polarized" approach:

http://www.dn.no/...t-skyhoye-o2malinger

I am aware of that, is you have used the search function you could have seen my post about Oskar. He got his result as a junior.
Oskar went to NTG Lillehammer. That is a sport high school with branches in several cities. They work with Olympiatoppen. Especially in testing and training.

The article in Dagens Naeringsliv dn.no (DN is the largest business paper in Norway) is one of many about endurance training in Norway.

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Halvard] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 12:50

Post #13 of 21 (3341 views)

Halvard wrote:

Andrew Coggan wrote:

Halvard wrote:

You have skiers that have tested in the 90s, Espen Harald Bjerke, Bj�rn D�hlie, Tore Ruud Hofstad.

http://fasterskier.com/...-the-vo2-max-record/

As I'm sure you know, the highest-ever recorded VO2max (for a man) is generally credited to Oskar Svendsen, at 97.5 mL/min/kg. Interestingly, the club to which he belongs (belonged?) does not seem to subscribe to the "polarized" approach:

http://www.dn.no/...t-skyhoye-o2malinger

I am aware of that, is you have used the search function you could have seen my post about Oskar. He got his result as a junior.
Oskar went to NTG Lillehammer. That is a sport high school with branches in several cities. They work with Olympiatoppen. Especially in testing and training.

The article in Dagens Naeringsliv dn.no (DN is the largest business paper in Norway) is one of many about endurance training in Norway.

I figured you would, and even used the search function here to try to relocate that article...just didn't take time to read the names of those posting in the thread it turned up.

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 13:28

Post #14 of 21 (3301 views)

Andrew Coggan wrote:

Halvard wrote:

You have skiers that have tested in the 90s, Espen Harald Bjerke, Bj�rn D�hlie, Tore Ruud Hofstad.

http://fasterskier.com/...-the-vo2-max-record/

As I'm sure you know, the highest-ever recorded VO2max (for a man) is generally credited to Oskar Svendsen, at 97.5 mL/min/kg. Interestingly, the club to which he belongs (belonged?) does not seem to subscribe to the "polarized" approach:

http://www.dn.no/...t-skyhoye-o2malinger

It's remarkable that the average V02max value for 17 junior cyclists at Svendsens high school at that time was 80.9 ml/min/kg. Cycling is growing in Norway but the talent pool is still relatively small compared to other countries. Makes me wonder about the calibration of the equipment at that lab. Especially since Svendsens Vo2max the year prior to the 97.5 was apparently 87 something(which seems perfectly reasonable for a junior tt world champ).

BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [bjorn] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 14:18

Post #15 of 21 (3255 views)

bjorn wrote:

Andrew Coggan wrote:

Halvard wrote:

You have skiers that have tested in the 90s, Espen Harald Bjerke, Bj�rn D�hlie, Tore Ruud Hofstad.

http://fasterskier.com/...-the-vo2-max-record/

As I'm sure you know, the highest-ever recorded VO2max (for a man) is generally credited to Oskar Svendsen, at 97.5 mL/min/kg. Interestingly, the club to which he belongs (belonged?) does not seem to subscribe to the "polarized" approach:

http://www.dn.no/...t-skyhoye-o2malinger

It's remarkable that the average V02max value for 17 junior cyclists at Svendsens high school at that time was 80.9 ml/min/kg. Cycling is growing in Norway but the talent pool is still relatively small compared to other countries. Makes me wonder about the calibration of the equipment at that lab. Especially since Svendsens Vo2max the year prior to the 97.5 was apparently 87 something(which seems perfectly reasonable for a junior tt world champ).

Not having seen any of the results, it's hard to say how accurate they might be. Joar Hansen has defended the data, however, and a quick web search indicates that the equipment used at University College of Lillehammer is some of the best around. (Calibration error still being possible, of course.)

Somewhat as an aside, sitting in my email inbox is a message from someone tested several times at another Scandanavian country's national lab, with results varying about as much as you mention for Svendsen above. Given that the test-retest reproducibility of VO2max when measured over long periods of time is around +/-5%, it is again hard to say whether the variation is real or not. Given that it is there national lab, though, you would hope that the numbers are beyond reproach!

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 14:37

Post #16 of 21 (3234 views)

Andrew Coggan wrote:

bjorn wrote:

Andrew Coggan wrote:

Halvard wrote:

You have skiers that have tested in the 90s, Espen Harald Bjerke, Bj�rn D�hlie, Tore Ruud Hofstad.

http://fasterskier.com/...-the-vo2-max-record/

As I'm sure you know, the highest-ever recorded VO2max (for a man) is generally credited to Oskar Svendsen, at 97.5 mL/min/kg. Interestingly, the club to which he belongs (belonged?) does not seem to subscribe to the "polarized" approach:

http://www.dn.no/...t-skyhoye-o2malinger

It's remarkable that the average V02max value for 17 junior cyclists at Svendsens high school at that time was 80.9 ml/min/kg. Cycling is growing in Norway but the talent pool is still relatively small compared to other countries. Makes me wonder about the calibration of the equipment at that lab. Especially since Svendsens Vo2max the year prior to the 97.5 was apparently 87 something(which seems perfectly reasonable for a junior tt world champ).

Not having seen any of the results, it's hard to say how accurate they might be. Joar Hansen has defended the data, however, and a quick web search indicates that the equipment used at University College of Lillehammer is some of the best around. (Calibration error still being possible, of course.)

Somewhat as an aside, sitting in my email inbox is a message from someone tested several times at another Scandanavian country's national lab, with results varying about as much as you mention for Svendsen above. Given that the test-retest reproducibility of VO2max when measured over long periods of time is around +/-5%, it is again hard to say whether the variation is real or not. Given that it is there national lab, though, you would hope that the numbers are beyond reproach!

I was tested at one of the most renowned testing facilities in Sweden 12 years or so ago and they admitted they had just thrown out a few years worth of data because of errors in calibration/equipment. I didn't think something like that could happen in a premier lab with state of the art equipment in a country with such a strong history in endurance/Vo2 testing, but it can apparently.

I don't know if something like that could be the case in Lillehammer but the numbers coming out of there are at least very high compared to many other places.

BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 14:50

Post #17 of 21 (3220 views)

I am sure many of the athletes tested at Lillehammer have also been tested in Oslo at Olympiatoppen or in Trondheim NTNU.
You have several skiers that have tested over 90, but since skiers now have more upper body strength is is not that common.
In the 80s and 90s several of the skiers ran under 30m on the 10,000 (on the track). Currently they are still fast, but not that fast.

Bjorn, do you know or have links to any testing in Sweden?

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Halvard] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 15:16

Post #18 of 21 (3201 views)

Don't have any links unfortunately. In 99 I was tested at another facility who also tested some of the best swedish male xc-skiers(world class) at the time though. None of them were over 84-86 from what I was told if I remember correctly.

BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [bjorn] [ In reply to ]

Nov 6, 15 15:31

Post #19 of 21 (3189 views)

bjorn wrote:

Don't have any links unfortunately. In 99 I was tested at another facility who also tested some of the best swedish male xc-skiers(world class) at the time though. None of them were over 84-86 from what I was told if I remember correctly.

I have read that Gunde Svan had around 90. And that is now 30 years ago.

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]

Nov 7, 15 13:36

Post #20 of 21 (2989 views)

Andrew Coggan wrote:

Based on the WKO4 prediction algorithm, the drips and drabs of Froome's power data that have already been released, and some assumptions, I've gone out on the limb and estimated Froome's VO2max as being 6.17 L/min. I'm looking forward to the release of his data to see how close to reality that is.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/...-data-on-december-3/

Re: Maximal aerobic capacity in the Winter Olympic endurance disciplines: current Olympic medal benchmarks, VO2max [ddalzell] [ In reply to ]

Nov 24, 15 11:10

Post #21 of 21 (2707 views)

Here you have the VO2max results from triathlete Christian Blummenfelt, VO2max 86.9

http://www.bt.no/...disniva-644265_1.snd

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