I have a lot of friends here in Nashville on the Martindale's. They really like them but I can't give you any comparison data. My only issue with them is they don't offer a front 60 carbon clincher. You can get a 50 or 90 front in a CC but I'd like a 60 front. They do make a 60 front with an alloy brake track but I wanted matching CC front and back.

Williams, Boyd, whatever will not be faster than a pair of Zipp 808s. What aero data are you seeing that beats them?

I bet it's the manufacturer data. No testing protocol is given. They probably put a bad tire on the Zipps and a really good tire on their wheels to make the test lean toward their wheels.

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It's posted on their website. The boyds website shows negative drag on the 90's from a yaw of 12.5-20 degrees. In looking at the Martindale comparison between their deep rims and the 808's the drag on the 808's goes up fairly severely at around 17 degrees. When I say severely I mean above zero :) Williams aero data is also posted on their website and shows a comparison to the 808's and their drag chart is almost a perfect over lay to Martindales in regards to the 808's. So unless there is a conspiracy between Martindale and Williams it would appear that their data is legit. So when i compare the boyds data to the Martindale and Williams data (in regards to the 808 data) the boyds are the clear aero winner.

However I know that stiffness in the hub and of the wheel also makes a great deal of diffeeende.

The way I see it, if I can get 85 percent of the aero advantage at half the price then I would take it. In looking at the data, it would appear that I could get that with either the Williams or the Martindales and if I can read a graph correctly then the boyds are the winner of the bunch and all the wheels are close to the zipps with the Williams and boyds having an advantage.

Those charts could all be b.s. though too.

Williams posted their testing protocol.


http://www.williamscycling.com/...Clincher-_p_153.html

Probably lying though.

The thing just really like about Martindale is that they are completely open about using open mold rims... no pun intended. They were also very responsive to some I inquiries I sent on Facebook. Which leads me to a feeling I had all along. Other people can make aero wheels... gasp. Even if the Martindale are only as aero as the last generation of zipp, that's an incredible value. And if my fat butt ever loses a race because I was on Martindale or boyds or Williams or flos instead of zipps then I guess I would buy the Zipps. Actually this thread has made me not want to buy a set of zipps now.

They did not say what tire and what tunnel they used

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Yeah they did. Look under the video. There is a link that says A2 wind tunnel raw data. Click on that. Think they used conti gp 4000s.