Next time you could go faster than him.

Or start spewing urine like s broken sprinkler.

Sounds like the only mistake you made was letting him dictate your pace. Next time stick to your plan and don't worry about someone that's a legal distance behind you.

Sounds like you need to work on your transitions. ;)

This was probably a good learning lesson you. You ended up racing his race instead of yours. If you put in some good surges and still didn't drop him, I would have likely slowed down a bit to get him to pass me and then conserve some energy staying the proper bike lengths behind him.

I saw something similar happen this weekend at our local sprint tri. 1 guy led the whole race until the last 150 meters. Another guy sat behind him (legally) the whole race and kicked hard the last 150 meters and won. 1st guy did all the work and couldn't respond during the sprint.

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I don't race shorter tris than HIM, but this is a huge issue in some of the bike races I do.

If you hold back because you don't want to pull, you get swallowed by the peleton. Do the work, and you get beaten by fresher legs at the end.

If it is draft legal...I guess the best thing is communication and try to share the work. If it is not draft legal but he is sitting on the edge of the legal draft zone, I guess you could wait for a hard segment such as a hill and try to drop him there. Or...let the rider pass you while making it seem as though you have just bonked...grunting and wheezing really help...the other guy will normally make a surge thinking he has broke you...and you can quietly let him do some work!

Couple of thoughts:

1) Time your surges better. If you didn't shake him off with the initial pass, then you're unlikely to lose him by simply riding high intensity on a flat straight. Wait until a hill or a turnaround where you can make the most of your biking strength. He may still be able to re-attach but doing so is at least going to cost him more energy than sticking with a steady high intensity. If he's drafting legally, then the benefit is small enough that it arguably wouldn't be worth the energy cost to catch a rider who has got away from you anyway.
2) Get better at transitions and running :)
3) Maybe you just got beat by a better athlete today and there's nothing you could have done tactically that would have made any difference. Did you feel you overbiked and suffered on the run? If so, you'd probably have been better off riding your normal bike pace and being as strong on the run as you could. He might still have been a better runner/transitioner than you, but you'd have given yourself your best shot.

I'm kind of new to tri, but I'm a bike-runner doing 70.3s so I do a lot of passing on the bike and am conscious about people latching onto the back of me.

My general cruising power is about 230w, but when I make passes I take that up to about 350w for 20s or so to make sure you absolutely obliterate the athlete you're passing. Don't just go around them and hold some high intensity, put 50m between you and them ASAP. Give them no chance to latch onto you at the edge of the draft zone, and demoralise them if you can.

Apart from increasing the power, my technique involves:
- Sneaking up behind (stay wide on any bends in the course so they don't see you on the inside, and keep pedalling so they don't hear your freewheel)
- Choose a good spot to pass - a flat fast section of the course is best. On a downhill they might catch you, and up a hill they get a good look at you
- Compose yourself for a few seconds while approaching them from behind, have a drink etc
- Get a good run up so you're at your passing speed when they see you
- Stay wide of them as you go around
- Look smooth and composed (still upper body)
- Don't look at them (rest assured they'll notice you)

If you do all these, and you're moving fast enough, they will see you and instantly think "oh there's no way I can go with that" - and so they won't respond and you've already won the bike battle.

Here's are some videos of Bradley Wiggins and Sebastien Kienle producing effect you're trying to replicate:
https://www.facebook.com/CyclingWeekly/videos/10152902523062634/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rimk6m1eaFk

This forum is fantastic some great advice here from you guys thanks heaps. Yer i currently lose significant time in transitions due to only owning cycle shoes where as the other guys are all got tri shoes attached to the bike and do the running mount. This will be fixed soonish as I plan to get some tri shoes and do this as well. Thanks again for,the good tips I think in future a huge soul crushing power surge is what is necessary when making the pass.

its entirely possible the surges trying to drop him nuked your run. I only do sprint tris lately and people will often sit in behind, sometimes not at a legal distance. I just put the head down and hammer and try and limit the surges because even in short races, they can bite you back. If it annoys you that much, try slowing a touch to see if they come around. If they dont then they are using your pacing and there is not alot you can do. Just hold the watts as steady as possibly and try and lose them on the run

While cycling is my strength, if someone passes me I'll fall out of the draft zone and hang on for a minute. Normally they will settle down and slow up slightly. Maybe you felt like you picked it up but then eased up slightly and made it easy for him.

jaretj

Those are some quite big power surges, I'm not an expert on pacing with power but would have thought that repeatedly going ~50% higher than your cruising power would damage your overall race quite a lot, especially in something as long as a 70.3

I'm a bike-runner as well (kind of don't have a choice given how I swim!) I use a lot of the same techniques as you but beg to differ on the use of hills. I find up hills in particular a great place to pass as the draft effect is minimised and the cyclist being overtaken is likely already putting out higher watts than normal to cope with the hill so has less left in the tank to try and latch onto you. Downhills shouldn't be a good place to pass but often are due to the bike handling skills of many triathletes! Fast flat sections can be OK to pass if there is a significant speed differential and you can steam past before the other rider realises what's going on (they shouldn't be looking behind them anyway unless they're about to overtake themselves), but they're also where the draft effect is maximised so if the other rider is quick on the uptake they can jump onto the back of your draft zone (or in it if they're a cheat :( ) and it's pretty hard to drop them from there.

Also would make the point that it's important to park the ego on the bike leg. What counts is getting your best overall time, not passing somebody on the bike. Far too many people seem to have a real obsession with both passing and not being passed on the bike. Ridiculous how often I pass somebody and they speed up during the overtake (when if anything they should be easing up slightly), or when somebody has clearly gone into the red zone to pass me (quite often to re-pass me after I've previously overtaken them) and then almost immediately slows down the moment they get their nose in front. It can be very frustrating and is one of the big causes of congestion on the bike leg, but I always try not to get drawn into it and let their idiocy ruin my race as well. Probably better for your overall day to drop your power by 20-30 watts and sit in for a few minutes until there's a good opportunity to pass and get properly clear, than it is to put in a big effort to get past somebody who's racing with their ego not their brain.

Depends what sort of cyclist you are.

Some people can only really plod along, and some have a snappy kick on them. I'm somewhere in between. I train for consistent and steady speed, but my background is in ball sports, and had 15 years of training for repeated hard efforts in me.

350w (4.5w/kg) is the highest I'd go to make a pass, but it's often achievable with much, much less than that.

Also, if you're towards the front of the field, then you do this a lot less. In heavy traffic, you're right, it would get tiring.




You're right, and I think that was the problem that OP had.

All of what I wrote above is to create the speed differential you mention. If you don't have the ability to go past like an absolute steam train, then you don't have the ability to drop them. It's part power, part technique. One or the other can get you there, but if you use both then you're looking good!

Last time I did a du, which was years ago, I won masters from a guy in another age group and wave, because of transitions. He took a few seconds out of me on the first run, like 1:15 on the bike, and another few seconds on the second run. I took 1:26 out of him on transitions and beat him by a couple seconds. I am glad I sprinted the finish.

Transitions are important!

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"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

These two statements (emphasis mine) seem a little contradictory. I don't take your meaning.

If the cyclist you are passing on an uphill (second statement) is already putting out higher watts than normal, doesn't that mean that to pass him, you too must be doing the same thing -- only more so? And if so, wouldn't that be just as bad as the power surges you think are bad (first statement)?

The aim is to pass somebody legally within the allowed passing window with as little extra power as possible. If they're significantly slower then you can cruise past without changing your power at all at pretty much any point on the course (unless there's a technical descent and they're a better descender than you). If they're only marginally slower than you, and if they're one of the many people who speed up when they see another rider coming, then it's about figuring out where you can get past the easiest. I find hills the easiest because the slope accentuates any difference in power/weight, so if you do need to lay down some extra power it's the most effective place to do it (and also the most efficient in terms of where to work harder on the course for your own best time anyway). Mind you, I'm also a relatively lean guy who can stay aero on all but the steepest slopes and only runs 44mm deep wheels, so relative to other cyclists of similar overall speed I tend to be one of the strongest on the hills. If you're a heavy, powerful cyclist running a deep rim front and a disc, and you're passing a lighter guy on a less aero set-up, then a fast section would play to your strengths more than a hill.

A sprint is not a time trial, it is a bike race. If you want to pass, you do not put in a 5k high effort, you jump. Flat out for 1 min and then settle back in TT pace. Especially if you can cover up time in the first 5k, you are faster than he is at steady pace.

If he can respond to your jump, he probably is a better cyclist than you think. Settle in your own pace and get him to take some turns by slowing down/stop paddeling. Even if this 'feels' slow you won't lose that much time but it really saves your legs. If you are afraid he is a better runner put in more big surges. Only when you lost him you go back to TT effort. Surges will hurt both of you just as much and my experience is that if you are well trained, 3 to 4 big surges hardly affect your run.

Only ever ride with someone on your tail for 15k is when you are pretty sure you are the better runner. Otherwise sit back and let him do it or get rid of him (if you want to win anyway).

Most advice here is from real triathletes, stick to your watts, don't care about others. For longer distances (HIM/IM) that is true but you are probably not racing those for the win. Racing for the win requires just that: Racing!

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....the race is long, and in the end, it’s only with yourself (Baz Luhrmann/Mary Schmich)

How did your second run performance compare to what you normally do?
The answer to this question is going to affect what you could have done differently on the bike.

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Don Larkin
Reach For More
http://www.reachformore.fit/
USAT Lvl1 Coach, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, BS Exercise Science

Hey yer you are spot on I don't have a powermeter on my bike and I was racing for 1st and 2nd overall so I just did whatever it took to hang in there. Looks like I lost the race in the transitions, my run times were as fast as normal my wife filmed the transitions and we both entered T1 side by side he left approx. 35seconds ahead of me out of T1, I caught that up in the first 5k of the bike then made the pass, I entered t2 first but he was literally metres behind. I left t2 approx. 25-30 seconds behind I made that up in the first 600m of the second run then sat on his tail until the last 600 or so metres where he surged and I couldn't match it but no doubt the race was lost in transition speed and me having to cook myself harder to make up the time after each transition. I look forward to a rematch thanks again for all the tips.