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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [wahoopride] [ In reply to ]
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wahoopride wrote:
%VO2max at MLSS. If you are not burning 100% carbohydrates at MLSS it means, in my opinion, you are reaching MLSS at an intensity lower than your aerobic system is theoretically capable of handling.

Interesting, however in my case, I hit MLSS at 85% of VO2max on the bike and 86% on the run, which isn't too bad.
For the run my RER was 1.0 at VO2max and .98 on the bike. My VO2max numbers were very respectable.

I always believed my lower % of carbs at MLSS was more due to diet than side effects of the diabetes itself. My VO2max and % of VO2max at MLSS seem to indicate that as well, but I would love to confirm if this is the case or not.
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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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In my experience, the majority of individuals are approaching 100% CHO at Threshold.
Training status, Training Type, Genetics, Daily Diet can all have an effect pushing some to be more fat or full carbs sooner

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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xtrpickels wrote:
In my experience, the majority of individuals are approaching 100% CHO at Threshold.
Training status, Training Type, Genetics, Daily Diet can all have an effect pushing some to be more fat or full carbs sooner

Do any red flags go off if a person is well under the 100% ? Do you see high performers at low CGO utilization at threshold ?
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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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Would it be correct to say that FTP would be approx 70% to 80% VO2Max?

In an Olympic Triathlon what sort of % of FTP would be considered reasonable?
Last edited by: Trev: Aug 2, 15 6:58
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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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Depends on what you mean by approximate. MLSS can usually fall between 60-90% VO2max, and in some rare cases as low as 50% and as high as 100% (Andy Coggan showed me a study he did in another thread where trained individuals with heart issues experienced MLSS at 100% VO2max). It has to do with the strength of your anaerobic system as compared to your aerboic system.
Last edited by: wahoopride: Aug 2, 15 7:48
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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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Trev wrote:
Would it be correct to say that FTP would be approx 70% to 80% VO2Max?

In an Olympic Triathlon what sort of % of FTP would be considered reasonable?

xtrpickels does this for a living so will have much better insight, but 2 data points : a buddy of mine, relatively untrained hit 75% of VO2max on the bike. Me, much more trained was at 85%.
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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
Trev wrote:
Would it be correct to say that FTP would be approx 70% to 80% VO2Max?

In an Olympic Triathlon what sort of % of FTP would be considered reasonable?


xtrpickels does this for a living so will have much better insight, but 2 data points : a buddy of mine, relatively untrained hit 75% of VO2max on the bike. Me, much more trained was at 85%.
I presume you're talking about % of VO2Max not %FTP for an Olympic?
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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
marcag wrote:
Trev wrote:
Would it be correct to say that FTP would be approx 70% to 80% VO2Max?

In an Olympic Triathlon what sort of % of FTP would be considered reasonable?


xtrpickels does this for a living so will have much better insight, but 2 data points : a buddy of mine, relatively untrained hit 75% of VO2max on the bike. Me, much more trained was at 85%.
I presume you're talking about % of VO2Max not %FTP for an Olympic?

Correct. I would probably be closer to 90% of FTP or 75% of VO2max
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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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We have seen RER below one at max VO2/HR but not quite .9 more like .95 or .97. Basically you can have an FOP AG long course athlete who may be not intensity trained due to de-training or time of year etc hit max HR. Simply a bi-product of FTP or higher end being de-trained or not focused on maximally.

I would say you have "odd" numbers based on diet and diabetic condition…just a guess though as we have never tested a keto athlete.

We stopped chasing RER as a metric from a coaching stand point as it appears to fall naturally in place as a by-product of "reasonable" training, IE looking at RER for me only really matters for events where caloric intake is limited and critical…9-10 hours plus.

Most people can get to where they have a balance of correct power/pace in conjunction with correct inputs and substrate utilization for longer one day events (Say IM and longer ultras over 50 mile) without doing anything too crazy in terms of diet.

The other issue with defining maxlass or MLSS is the difference in interpretation of what it means, from a purely research/academic perspective (definition) to a layman's perspective to a coaching perspective.

Canova defines maxlass as a steady stead which is event specific with no more of a 10% BL drift based on the Faraggiana-Gigliotti test (regardless if BL is 4-5mmol or 20+ mmol) ranging from 4 minutes for the steeple, to 6-8 minutes for 5km to 12-15 minutes for 10km and up to 2 hours for the marathon.

Maurice
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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
We have seen RER below one at max VO2/HR but not quite .9 more like .95 or .97.

Thanks.

Just to clarify.
The .9 was at LT which the lab interpreted at close to 4mmol and I see the same with the D-max method.
At VO2max I am .98 on the bike.

I didn't think these numbers were too weird. I am still under the probably naive impression that the low number is diet rather than weirdness during the event with ketosis or other. I have tested for ketones in the past and I have never been in ketosis (I think)
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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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You are not alone, I also have a similar profile.
I'm on a keto diet, and after doing a metabolic cart I'm really impressed that my lactate threshold 1 is around 87% heart rate max, and at LT2 I'm still burning 66%fat and 33%cho. For "keto or LCHF athletes" setting your training zones based on blood lactate would overestimate them because you use more fat to produce ATP so you generate less lactate.
fat vs cho oxidation
lactate
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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [Indartsu] [ In reply to ]
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Indartsu wrote:
You are not alone, I also have a similar profile.
I'm on a keto diet, and after doing a metabolic cart I'm really impressed that my lactate threshold 1 is around 87% heart rate max, and at LT2 I'm still burning 66%fat and 33%cho. For "keto or LCHF athletes" setting your training zones based on blood lactate would overestimate them because you use more fat to produce ATP so you generate less lactate.
fat vs cho oxidation
lactate

How are you measuring your LT1 and LT2?

Do you have your own meter?

Have you figured out how to test from your ear by yourself or do you get the blood from somewhere else?
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Re: Fat / carbohydrate ratio at FTP? [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
How are you measuring your LT1 and LT2?

Do you have your own meter?

Have you figured out how to test from your ear by yourself or do you get the blood from somewhere else?
LT1= the first rise in lactate, Baseline + 0,3mmol
LT2= I use modified Dmax.

I have my own meter, but I've never tested myself, sorry.
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