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Re: are we slowly killing our self by doing long distance? [STP] [ In reply to ]
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STP wrote:
I started serious swimming at 12 and am 54 now although once I "retired" at 22 I have not considered myself a total endurance workout nut but, I am also not sure I can fairly elevate what I have been doing because of bias (see below).

The science makes perfect sense to me. But, it is just saying there is a risk, not that everybody is going to have heart trouble. I just chalk that risk up to one of the many risks I accept as (primarily) a cyclist these days - increased skin cancer risk from hours in the sun, crashes (already have a nice collarbone plate and a nice collection of other scars), overuse injuries (my shoulders were already in rough shape from swimming before I started regularly slamming them into the road but my knees seem to be holding up), cars, and any of the number of weird ways you can get hurt on a bike.

I think many of us gladly accept these types of risks and, adding in a small chance of heart trouble to the pile is not going to get many people to quit. Although we all should be mindful of the risk so we don't ignore symptoms we see in ourselves or our friends.

What I do find amazing though is the prevalent mindset that "this must be good for me and therefore there is not risk at all" thought process. There are some seriously deluded people out there. I have a little of that but it is amazing that lots of people seem to be in full fledged denial that their training and competition regime could have any negative risks at all.


Good post.

A lot of people don't seem able to think in anything other than simple yes/no, good/bad ways. The world doesn't work that way. It's all shades of grey and trade offs. So many seem threatened by the idea that at some point endurance sports may increase the likelihood of heart issues. That doesn't mean that the other health benefits of exercise have gone away. It just means that at a certain point you may have exceeded the "dose" of exercise that's optimum for promoting health. It doesn't mean that the medicine (exercise) isn't still good for you overall.

Also, keep in mind what the numbers mean. A five fold increase in the chance of AF sounds scary, but what it really might mean is that instead of 1 person out of 1,000 it's now 5 out of 1,000. Journalists always present the numbers this way, because it makes for more interesting reading than presenting the actual numbers. Without knowing the actual numbers, saying there's an x% increase in risk doesn't tell us anything.


Edited to correct the math.

____________________________________________
Don Larkin
Reach For More
http://www.reachformore.fit/
USAT Lvl1 Coach, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, BS Exercise Science
Last edited by: TriMyBest: Jul 30, 15 14:03
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Re: are we slowly killing our self by doing long distance? [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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I had the cryo ablation, no pacemaker....
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Re: are we slowly killing our self by doing long distance? [ian moone] [ In reply to ]
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No argument with that. However, until that time comes, I want to live with the highest quality of life possible!
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Re: are we slowly killing our self by doing long distance? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
I am the very kind of person to which the article is addressed. I've been racing long distance at a competitive level since I was a kid. Almost 58 now and NO intention of stopping due to these articles. It is possible that I could develop AFIB as a result and I will retire from racing if that happens. But until then, I'm not buying the "science". There is a cottage industry for embellishing data points and attributing it to cause and effect. The lethargic population laps this stuff up like cream cheese - it is music to their ears. But you take a large population of people...regardless of what they do...and X% are going to get cancer, Y% are going to get AFIB, etc.

Exactly. There is a BIG market out there for those that want to hear little to no exercise is better for you.


Pete Githens
Reading, PA
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Re: are we slowly killing our self by doing long distance? [STP] [ In reply to ]
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3 of my grandparents lived long. Close to their 90s. The one that didn't make it close to 90 died at 80.

They all lived very sedentary lives once they reached their forties (this is my parents recollection and they are unfortunately taking the same route). During their 60s, they had developed high blood pressure, cholesterol issues, they were not obese but overweight. All of them ended having diabetes, mobility issues, arthritis, etc. They were all medicated to control their diseases. In any case, two of them lost limbs due to diabetes/circulation issues, yet they continue to live for many years after that...

I can see they that they had longevity, but low quality of life (during their last years). Exercise could have prevented or improved their health issues (maybe).

I'm more afraid of dying old, with lot of medical issues depending on 15 pills a day, being pushed around on a wheelchair, than dying a little bit younger due to a heart condition induced by excessive exercise.

If I develop AFIB then I'll retire. Until then I'll enjoy cycling and running.
Last edited by: mistyped: Jul 27, 17 14:33
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Re: are we slowly killing our self by doing long distance? [mistyped] [ In reply to ]
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mistyped wrote:
3 of my grandparents lived long. Close to their 90s The fourth made to 80.

They all lived very sedentary lives beyond their forties (this is my parents recollection and they are unfortunately taking the same route). During their 60s, they had developed high blood pressure, cholesterol issues, they were not obese but overweight. All of them ended having diabetes, mobility issues, arthritis, etc. They were all medicated to control their diseases. In any case, two of them lost limbs due to diabetes/circulation issues, yet they continue to live for many years after that...

I can see they that they had longevity, but low quality of life (during their last years). Exercise could have prevented or improved their health issues (maybe).

I'm more afraid of dying old, with lot of medical issues depending on 15 pills a day, being pushed around on a wheelchair, than dying a little bit younger due to a heart condition induced by excessive exercise.

If I develop AFIB then I'll retire. Until then I'll enjoy cycling and running.[/quote]

Amen!! Everytime I fly, I think to myself that the last thing I want to become is another piece of baggage...aka being pushed to the gate in a wheelchair and back. Without mobility, quality of life can be low indeed.
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Re: are we slowly killing our self by doing long distance? [ian moone] [ In reply to ]
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Quite clearly, I should have snuffed it decades ago. :-/
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Re: are we slowly killing our self by doing long distance? [Vman455] [ In reply to ]
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Vman455 wrote:
K-DUB wrote:
I read once that all animals with a heart have about the same number of beats in a lifetime, for example a dog may live 1/4th as long as a human, but it's heart beats 4x faster (but don't fact check me on this).

I'm 50 and after a dozen years of endurance sports, my resting heart rate has steadily gone down, now in the low 40's, so by that metric, while my heart rate increases during training, the net result is fewer beats over the course of my day/week/month/year/life ergo a longer life!


Not quite--resting heart rate is correlated with the size of the animal, not lifespan, although large mammals do tend to live longer than smaller animals. Horses, for instance, have heart rates slightly lower than the average human, but a lifespan of only 25-30 years. Blue whales have heart rates in the single-digit range per minute, and live 80-90 years, slightly longer than humans. And, as with anything, there are outliers that don't fit the pattern, like Galapagos tortoises, but also among warm-blooded animals, such as macaws, which can live nearly as long as humans.but have significantly higher heart rates.

Yes, across the animal kingdom metabolisms vary markedly, even among mammals.

For example, a large mammal like a bear will have a very slow heartrate while hibernating.

The metabolism of some insectivorous bats will all but stop over winter when their body temp drops to near freezing, but be very high over summer. I've even seen tropical bats living to around 25 years, an impressively long time for a small mammal.

Echidnas have been recorded at around 50 years of age, but they're an anomaly in so many ways.

"Cold-blooded" reptiles, amphibians and fish complicate an overly simplistic theory even more. Let's not even venture into invertebrates like cuttlefish with four hearts.
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Re: are we slowly killing our self by doing long distance? [Mr. October] [ In reply to ]
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Mr. October wrote:
Maybe. I look around the office at a lot of people that are killing themselves a lot less slowly and most of them can't even walk up the steps (and won't) without breathing hard.I've gone elk hunting at 10,000 feet and as a by-product of my long distance endurance training could run up and down mountains with a bow and pack without even breathing hard. Others in camp . . . well . . let's just say they spent a lot more time in camp.

If I die next year crossing the line at the Boston Marathon I'm okay with that. It would sure beat keeling over dead on my keyboard while updating a spreadsheet.

I'm guessing the elk will be ok with it too. ;-)
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Re: are we slowly killing our self by doing long distance? [satanellus] [ In reply to ]
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This subject is of major importance to everyone doing endurance exercise over many years. So, if you are young with a lifetime of endurance exercise to look forward to, you will most likely experience some form of heart issue later in life.

I have read multiple reports and books on this subject because I started to experience some issues of my own about 10 years ago. Initially I thought it was an aberration but when it persisted, I started wearing a HRM. It sometimes occurred without other physical symptoms and at other times I could feel the transitory nature of the heart rate spike. After doing my own research I felt that I could continue to manage it without too many concerns.

After my training partner had a successful ablation to manage his atrial flutter, I thought it prudent to consult a cardiologist who just happens to be a dedicated triathlete almost in my AG. He put me through a battery of tests and concluded that, with my atrial tachycardia, I should continue what I was doing but try to avoid max HR training and racing.

I believe I am in the pioneering wave of everyday athletes who started doing fun runs in the 1960's -unlike the previous generations - and am still doing endurance work. Consequently, the jury is not yet firmly convinced one way or another whether there is any danger in continuing and whether I am shortening my life span by doing so.

I am of the opinion that the reward of my current lifestyle is greater than the risk as long as I act my age and not like that of a younger person.
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Re: are we slowly killing our self by doing long distance? [ian moone] [ In reply to ]
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I have to tend to agree, the fascination with ultra endurance training and events seems to lead to increased chances of arrhythmia.
I've never run marathon or done an Ironman but my one experience with half ironman training and racing back in the mid to late 90's did lead to a prolonged period of time(years) where I dealt with benign arrhythmias on a regular basis.
I have since sworn off long races and training and the pvc's are all but non existent.
I rarely run more than 8 miles at a time or cycle more than 25 miles at a time but I do a fair amount of speed work and at 51 I feel as good as I ever have.
I love 5k/10k races an sprint distance duathlons that usually don't take much more than an hour and Im good with that.
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