I don't see how that's much different than introducing separate competitive groups so you don't have to race against someone that is significantly better than you. You showed up and you think you deserve a better shot at winning by the eliminating of your strongest competition

Just make draft legal triathlons the norm.. Everyone racing everyone, if you're fast at the sport of triathlon *being that a good swimmer, biker and runner* then you can be competitive. If you don't then there shouldn't be an argument and you should be focused on racing the clock in a non draft race.

there is a very large grey area in this one for sure.

regardless, sensible rules should be discussed and agreed, and then people should race by those rules. if you don't like the rules, don't whinge about it (not saying you are), but do something about it. argue your point with the rule makers.

In this case, if you race pro tri, then there should be say a 2 year stand down period before you can race amateur. If you're a pro in a comparable sport then maybe a 1 year stand down. If you're a pro in a no comparable sport, say a darts player and switch to tri, no stand down period.

I recall a bunch of years ago, a friend came 2nd in her AG in an IM race and was awarded a Kona slot (only 2 slots for her AG). Then a female with a pro card, who had raced, but hadn't qualified as a pro in that race, successfully argued that she had ticked the wrong box on the entry form, and was then awarded an amateur slot. Thankfully the RD did not take back the Kona slot for my friend as there were only 2 slots, but she'd already been advised she'd KQ'd. (that example was over 10 years ago. I'm not sure what the rules currently are)

I don't think a current pro triathlete should be able to race amateur in any tri while they are a pro, simply by ticking a box.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

I'm afraid you are fabricating things and have incorrectly labeled someone a hypocrite. You added the 'per race' qualifier, not ajthomas. If there is a men's race and women's race, that is two winners in separate races. If we count the AG races as separate races, then the number of winners goes up.

How is the two year rule going to change anything. Anyone who has been a pro will still come back and beat most AG. The fact of the matter is triathlon is more popular and there are more very good people, Kona is basically out of reach for most.

Retired pros who come back and race AG will most likely win slots, we also have some very good AG who don't race pro who win year after year and go.

Retired pros and pointy end AG tend to give back a lot to the sport so we should welcome them. Lots of people get worked up about this issue when it's pretty much a moot point. Maybe people need to look at things other than KQ as a reward for doing this sport.

I am so glad there is much more to life, for most folks, than KQ.

Let the best race there, seems pretty simple.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Like Team USA and ITU Worlds!!

Familiar with Steve, but can you provide some other names for me. I try to research my peers if they are within +-8% of my ability level, I feel this can be important if racing paths ever cross regardless of whether they hold an elite card or not.[/quote]


Josh Beck & Rick Fesler.

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Don Larkin
Reach For More
http://www.reachformore.fit/
USAT Lvl1 Coach, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, BS Exercise Science

Nobody brought up ex-varsity athletes? I know a number of ex-swimmers & runners from university who are quite successful at tri. Maybe not overall pro level times, but in a small pro field race, can place in the top 10/20 overall. They're at a completely different level than most of us normal people, but they juggle full time jobs and train hard. To be honest, I would say some of them love the sport incredibly in order to train as hard as they do after years of 5am practices.

I did a local road race this spring. Peter Reid was in my category. I'm a woman and only a Cat 2 cyclist, so not pro.

It's fun as hell racing against fast people, regardless of their age, gender or status.

Just to repeat- I don't think there is any issue with the best AGers taking Kona slots, that's what it is all about after all! The issue as I see it is competitors who make a living out of triathlon or similar sports (eg cycling) racing as AGers. If you are super talented and race as a hobby on the side of your regular job, awesome and more power to you. The issue for me is when pros, as defined by sensible criteria (ie it is their job, like a pro cyclist!), compete against weekend warriors.

Again, I don't think anyone would deny we all have different limiters. I am 170cm, you won't find me arguing for a handicap for those over 190cm given their natural swim stroke length advantage, or means-tested bike splits etc.

The question is simply one of appropriate categorisation. It may be imperfect but there is a pro category for a reason. If you are a full time athlete and that is your primary source of income, surely it is a natural question to ask if the pro category is the best place for you.

To reiterate as well, I ask the question not because I am personally feeling hard done by (I am nowhere near gifted enough to ever approach the podium of a WC event, although I CAN generally qualify for these events), but more because if we are going to have AG racing, genuine AGers should stand a shot at winning. Otherwise, we will see Kona and 70.3 WC podiums entirely populated by former and present pro triathletes, cyclists etc. That, I think, is not in the spirit of AG racing.

I don't think how you make a living should really be the criteria which designates who races as elite and who races as an AGer. What about someone whose spouse is the main bread winner in the family, and they are a stay at home mom/dad (regardless of whether they actually have kids at home to tend to). Should they race as elite since they have more time to train and a more flexible workout schedule than the rest of us? What if they aren't even all that fast? What about on the other end, I think Matt Hanson still has a full time job and Daniela Ryf is still a full time student. Do you want them racing against you because they are technically "weekend warriors". Although most people refer to them as "pros", many elite triathletes and runners actually still have other jobs to make a living, they are just way better at being weekend warriors than the rest of us.

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http://trainingwheelsrequired.wordpress.com
@KellyNCollier

I agree plenty of pros have other sources of income, but it is their choice to race pro not AG and they obviously have their own motivations for doing so.

The people that concern me are those that DO make a living out of competitive sport and race as amateurs. Those that do not- wives or husbands of other halves that work, trust fund kids, independently wealthy folk- and just have more time to train are just lucky. Good for them.

So, should someone that monetized their training/racing blog (for example) into their main income source be forced to race pro despite them being MOP? They are living Via competing, just competing at a low level