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Re: Why run slowly? [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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both if you've got it but slow off the bat is good.

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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Re: Why run slowly? [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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cloy26 wrote:
The volume is completely different, though. We can't automatically assume running 60mpw w/ easy runs at a 8:45 pace would also be the best practice for an AGer running half that distance.

It's a polarized program of an elite with a gigantic base versus a sweet spot approach of an AGer.

I've made my biggest leap yet in running performance over the last year, after finally switching to a polarized approach - on ~40km a week average, sometimes a bit more and often a bit less.

I started, like many, with a "sweet-spot" approach. Lots of tempo, lots of hurt on the run. Felt good and fun, and the progress came quickly at first. About three years ago I managed to get my 10k down to 40m, and soon after managed 40m in an Olympic Tri (course reasonably accurate). Ever since I've sorta... Plateau'ed. If I ran more, I got injured more. Did a two HIM with decent runs but never managed to regain the trust in my legs.

Last autumn, my coach and I decided to try it differently. I spent a few months running exclusively below 5/km pace, often 5:30/km and slower. At first I couldn't figure out how to move that way, and my form felt awful. Over time things became smoother and I realized that what used to be 5:20/km at 150bpm is now 135bpm (now ~120bpm). Come November I participated in two 5ks and smashed my old PR by a minute, holding 3:37/km pace - considering I never did any workout below 3:45 before in my life, that was a shock. In the winter we started doing speedwork again, and suddenly 1km repeats at 4:00 pace were easy, and my HR didn't even get to the threshold. Last week I got another confirmation that I'm on the right course - did a 30m test on the track and held 3:37/km. Looks like the hard sessions are about to get a whole lot harder. Or maybe not... Basically, my current spread is ~1:4 hard to easy ratio and my body feels much better while progressing faster than ever.

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Re: Why run slowly? [tessartype] [ In reply to ]
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I have to admit that this whole approach of running more often but slower but you still get fast seems so counterintuitive to me that and I am really struggling to understand it. In my own running I find it so hard to not push myself every run unless it is a long run and even then I find it hard not to push it that last half or at least the last few miles of a long run. I guess I just have it in my head that if I am not pushing myself I'm not getting a good run. I barely ever run more than 3 times a week even before I started training for a triathlon and running was the only exercise I did. the thing that got me to sign up and train for an Ironman was that I was getting injured more often and it made me feel like I was getting old and I figured if I was ever going to do an Ironman I better do it now before I get any older (I'm only 36 years old). I'm really enjoying this thread. I believe it is finally time for me to adjust my running. Is this philosophy at odds with High Intensity Interval Training that seems to be in vogue, or is that simply more of a cycling and swimming thing and not applicable to running? I think what keeps a lot of blockheads like myself from adjusting our schedules is, if I'm going to start running 6 days a week, how many hard days a week do I run and how does that change from off season to building phase to when I'm getting closer to my races phase?
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Re: Why run slowly? [kaywould] [ In reply to ]
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Read the BarryP threads, that'll answer your questions on how to divide your time both on a weekly and on a season basis.

It is counterintuitive for almost everyone. But it just works. Even in cycling, given unlimited resources you should be going mostly easy (relatively) - that's what the pros do. It's just that with cycling and swimming, because there's no impact you can tolerate a whole lot more intensity (or mileage - or both!) so if you're time-limited more intensity makes sense. In running, 5-6 hours a week is a pretty decent training load so it's best to do a lot of it easy. In cycling, that's 2 rides at best.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: Why run slowly? [tessartype] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. I spoke with pro cyclist at length a couple weeks back. He does 35 hours / week during the off season and 20ish during (due to travel / etc). Almost all of that 35 hours is 60%ish riding.

I've trained both ways as a runner (college below average D3 runner). Less mileage / higher intensity, and more mileage / less intensity. Back then as a pure runner I actually raced better on less mileage / higher intensity. I believe I was better fit with high mileage / less intensity, but the problem was I didn't take the easy days easy enough so I was never sharp enough to race well! It was a lack of understanding the system. We never ran much slower than 7:00 miles and even now 15 years later I still have that same 7:00 pace engrained in my head. And I only run 1-2 times / week! If I ever get back to serious tri I no question have to slow that down.

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Re: Why run slowly? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
I strongly suspect that these pros doing 9min/mile in running were in the middle of a 30+ hour training week where they'd bee running 70-90 miles per week on top of all the bike and swim hammering. At that point, 9min/mile is probably a pretty good showing for toasted legs.

There's no way they would be doing 9min/mile if they were training the 9-13hrs/wk that a typical AGer trains. Still, us AGers can still do those slow runs if we're still pushing our leg endurance with the hammering we're getting over those 9-13 hrs.

Damn. A pro triathlete running 90 miles per week? Who is running 90 miles per week?

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