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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Dr. Coggan,
I haven't forgotten about your offer, I've just been on vacation and slammed at work the last couple weeks.

Would I need to send you a batch of data from the entire workout, or would I just need to extract the 5s/1min/5min/20min max avg. power numbers from each of my rides for the last couple months and send you an excel chart with that info (sorted by date maybe)?

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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [ZackCapets] [ In reply to ]
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ZackCapets wrote:
Dr. Coggan,
I haven't forgotten about your offer, I've just been on vacation and slammed at work the last couple weeks.

Would I need to send you a batch of data from the entire workout, or would I just need to extract the 5s/1min/5min/20min max avg. power numbers from each of my rides for the last couple months and send you an excel chart with that info (sorted by date maybe)?

Ideal (for me) would be for you to do a "Copy raw" of the data in your mean maximal power chart in WKO+ 3.0.

If you don't use WKO+, then you'd have to send me a batch of files.
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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [dontswimdontrun] [ In reply to ]
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dontswimdontrun wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
7401southwick wrote:
There are plenty of athelets in the 240-250lb (110kg) range ( not many cyclists) so at 6.6W/kg that is 726W for an hour.

Are you saying you think the 6.6W/kg could hold true even for a larger hypothetical athelete


Not likely, as allometric scaling clearly demonstrates that, e.g., VO2max scales with body mass^X, where X is a value <1 (0.67 theoretically; ~0.75 in practice). Most people aren't used to non-integer exponents, though, plus when it comes to transporting your body mass against gravity or up a hill, it is kg^1 that belongs in the denominator.
Confused by this (bold bit). Frontal area scales to mass^0.67-0.75, if VO2max did likewise then the small guys would be as fast on the flat as the big guys (W/CdA the same), give or take that their bike is probably a greater proportion of total drag. If VO2 scales to mass ^1 then the big guys are faster on the flat, but can also climb as well as the, er, climbers (identical W/kg). Somewhere (and it regularly annoys me that I can't find where I've saved it) I have a paper indicating that W/kg scales to mass^~0.9 IIRC, which would explain climbing vs flat speed, assuming drag coefficients of riders are similar regardless of size. Any thoughts?

Lots of studies of allometric scaling of VO2max out there, which vary in terms of the exact exponent that best fit the data being modeled but are generally consistent with the fact that it is larger than expected based solely on dimensional analysis.
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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
Of course, the whole concept of power profiling (and it's off-spring, fatigue profiling) has now been made obsolete by the auto-phenotyping made possible by the WKO4 power-duration model.

Some example curves - look to the athlete's "name" in the upper left for their phenotype (note that "Sam Sprinter" isn't all that extreme, as he is a neo-pro on an NRC road team. "Alex All-rounder", OTOH, is a pro on a UCI squad, so has a significantly higher FTP relative to body mass and only a slightly lower Pmax):








Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Jul 1, 15 15:06
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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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I managed to get a mean max power chart out of Training Peaks. Is there any way to copy this data out of TP or is it only WKO+ 3.0 that will allow a "copy raw" operation?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-jEsyQ8LkKkdkIwWjNGNG51cjQ/view?usp=sharing


I haven't seen a way to change the y-axis from W to W/kg, but my weight is ~149 to 150lb.



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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
xtrpickels wrote:

I love this Chart. When you plot my abilities it goes downhill, which is exactly the type of riding I prefer.


Have I ever (offered to) modeled your power-duration data? If not, I'd be happy to do it...sounds like you know that you're a sprinter, but it might be interesting to see what an objective analysis shows.

It's odd...mine looks like a bell...
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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
xtrpickels wrote:

I love this Chart. When you plot my abilities it goes downhill, which is exactly the type of riding I prefer.


Have I ever (offered to) modeled your power-duration data? If not, I'd be happy to do it...sounds like you know that you're a sprinter, but it might be interesting to see what an objective analysis shows.

It's odd...mine looks like a bell...

Not possible - what program are you using?
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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [ZackCapets] [ In reply to ]
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ZackCapets wrote:
I managed to get a mean max power chart out of Training Peaks. Is there any way to copy this data out of TP or is it only WKO+ 3.0 that will allow a "copy raw" operation?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-jEsyQ8LkKkdkIwWjNGNG51cjQ/view?usp=sharing


I haven't seen a way to change the y-axis from W to W/kg, but my weight is ~149 to 150lb.

You'd have to ask someone who uses TP, but just eyeballing the curve it definitely looks like that of someone with a sprinter's phenotype.
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Jul 17, 15 10:05
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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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More representative data (I picked these athletes because they had similar, but not identical, FTP values, but different phenotypes. Values in legend at top left are their 60 min mean maximal power in W/kg).


Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Jul 17, 15 10:09
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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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I meant when looking at where I fit in the table.
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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
I meant when looking at where I fit in the table.

Power profiling is sooooooooooooooo 2003. ;)
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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
I meant when looking at where I fit in the table.

If you mean that you are comparatively better in the 1min and 5min catagories, then that puts you as the "pursuiter" phenotype.

As much as I'd love to be the big diesel engine TTer, I suspect that I'm similar to you.
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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [Liaman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm low in the 5secs, and 1min, high in the 5min and lower in the FTP, although, my experience suggests that it's not the case.
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Re: Max power for 1hr record ? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
I'm low in the 5secs, and 1min, high in the 5min and lower in the FTP, although, my experience suggests that it's not the case.

I'll make you the same offer I made up-thread: send me your mean maximal power data and we can let the statistics decide (or you can just wait a bit and buy WKO4 yourself).
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