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Fishies, stroke analysis EDIT: New Video Added -- banded
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Picked up one of those cheap gopro knockoffs off Amazon and it finally came in today. I went to the pool right after work to witness this highly ineffective stroke. Two gigantic things stick out to me: 1.) scissor kicking is destroying any momentum and 2.) I lack any semblance of an EVF.



What else do you guys see? What drills should I really focus on in addition to upping my volume a lot?

To put it into perspective, in an oly, my breakdown is 30/sub-60/40, so my swim is a massive limiter.


EDIT:


New Video:


I *tried* to work on some things that were suggested. The easiest adjustment was the head position. I instantly saw a difference in my balance and it was infinitely easier to breathe and I made a sub-1:20 100scy interval for the first time in my set of 10.


However, my low stroke rate is still a big issue that is obviously going to take some time to fix. This is especially evident in the footage of me swimming with a band. My whole lower body is fishtailing from side to side and I can't, despite really trying to focusing, increase my stroke rate. What is going on in that footage? Does that drill specifically highlight a weakness that's that's present in my regular stroke?

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
Last edited by: cloy26: May 23, 15 12:08
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, I was completely distracted by Ed grimly practicing male synchro swimming routine in the far lane....the 40 plus set might get the reference.
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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cloy26 wrote:
Picked up one of those cheap gopro knockoffs off Amazon and it finally came in today. I went to the pool right after work to witness this highly ineffective stroke. Two gigantic things stick out to me: 1.) scissor kicking is destroying any momentum and 2.) I lack any semblance of an EVF.

What else do you guys see? What drills should I really focus on in addition to upping my volume a lot?
To put it into perspective, in an oly, my breakdown is 30/sub-60/40, so my swim is a massive limiter.

Actually, i think you don't look too bad. Biggest things i saw were the things you've already mentioned. I'm not a big drill person but rather i would use the pull buoy and maybe some paddles and try to get the feeling of "pulling over a barrel", i.e. your arm should feel like it is literally pulling over a large beer keg sitting on its side, e.g. in the position as if you were rolling the keg into your apt/house. Assuming you like beer, you can use this imagery to help you through your swim workouts. Slowman provides a nice discussion in the link below to an ST article from 2006, albeit using wine barrels rather than beer kegs. I think if you can just get your pull right while swimming w/ the buoy, then your slight scissor kick will go away by itself. In summary, you've got to get to where you are really pulling hard and really feeling it in your arms, shoulders, and chest. Your entire upper body (UB) should feel pretty wasted after a hard swim workout, but it is a great feeling, the best IMO. Correct me if i'm way off-base here but you just don't look like your UB is working really hard per se, but i could be wrong:)

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...imcenter/barrel.html


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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I think your cadence is a bit low and you are reaching (catch up style) a little too long. You may get a little better/faster by upping your cadence a bit. Also it's not so much the scissor in your kick, but your ankles are very stiff: your feet are almost perpendicular to your legs, and act as a brake. So work a little on ankle flexibility and turn your feet in a bit. Best of luck. And whatever ericmulk said.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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Turnover and the recovery phase. You take way too long to get your hands to the point where they start the catch. Get your hands out front and pulling quicker, and the speed will come.

Butterfly is a great "drill" for learning to get a fast recovery. You can't recover slowly and swim fly.

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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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Timing of the kick and pull is important. Right now, the timing seems off and kick / pull disconnected.

1-arm swimming, fins, catch-up drills can help get a sense of timing.
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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DrTriKat wrote:
I think your cadence is a bit low and you are reaching (catch up style) a little too long. You may get a little better/faster by upping your cadence a bit. Also it's not so much the scissor in your kick, but your ankles are very stiff: your feet are almost perpendicular to your legs, and act as a brake. So work a little on ankle flexibility and turn your feet in a bit. Best of luck. And whatever ericmulk said.

It might be the camera angle, but the feet pointing almost straight down stuck out for me as well. See if you can point your toes more.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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So many good tips, I really appreciate it.

I rigged up this mount that I can use on the edge of the pool to have the camera just below the water's surface, so I can get more angle. I can update the thread once I get that video (if it would help at all), but thanks for all the help!

Edit: When I swim with a band (something I have a lot of trouble with), what aspect should I focus on? Is it my low turn over that makes it difficult? I will film that, too.

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
Last edited by: cloy26: May 20, 15 3:27
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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In addition to what some of the others have said, work on ankle flexibility in the evening. On the way back I could see the soles of your feet pretty clearly. There's a good chance your kick is actually slowing you down.

This video belongs in the "Strange Denizens of the Pool" thread just for the two guys in the lanes to the left of you :)
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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That left arm needs to come in, try to pull under your body not out to the side or in an arc - the EVF will help this but you need to be aware of it.
Your head is really buried, almost entirely underwater. Doesn't need to be that low, neutral spine, relaxed jaw/neck, shoot for that waterline at the crown of your head or just under.

The slight scissor is a balance issue, but not as dramatic as you think it is. That left arm & your head will provide immediate relief if you can get them tuned in a bit.

And yeah, maybe your ankles can be a bit more flexible.

AW
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [AWARE] [ In reply to ]
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The water level issue could be fixed (theoretically) by just focusing my vision more in front a few feet instead of straight down, right?

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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yup. Make sure you don't wind up sinking your shoulders/hips as a result though...just stay relaxed. It's a small adjustment.

AW
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [AWARE] [ In reply to ]
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BUMP for the new video I added from yesterday.



I *tried* to work on some things that were suggested. The easiest adjustment was the head position. I instantly saw a difference in my balance and it was infinitely easier to breathe and I made a sub-1:20 100scy interval for the first time in my set of 10.


However, my low stroke rate is still a big issue that is obviously going to take some time to fix. This is especially evident in the footage of me swimming with a band. My whole lower body is fishtailing from side to side and I can't, despite really trying to focusing, increase my stroke rate. What is going on in that footage? Does that drill specifically highlight a weakness that's that's present in my regular stroke?

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
Last edited by: cloy26: May 23, 15 12:10
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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You look pretty much the way most people do with a band (minus those who started young). Hips seesawing, legs sinking.

Part of that can be remedied by really focusing on keeping your head down. Engaging your core will help the seesaw.

You could try to swim with a pb and band, to get used to the feeling of absolutely no kick. Gradually phase out the PB as you feel ready for it.

Another thing you can try, that my coach does, is get rid of the band and hold the pull buoy between your feet. Best of both worlds, looks ridiculous but works pretty well.

A great "drill" to work on is sprinting. Do some fast 25s and 50s, forget distance for a while and swim fast. You'll learn to recover quick and pull hard (engaging the big muscle groups - chest and back). Your stroke rate will improve.

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis EDIT: New Video Added -- banded [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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What's up with the big dude in the lane to your left doing splits?
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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cloy26 wrote:
BUMP for the new video I added from yesterday.

I *tried* to work on some things that were suggested. The easiest adjustment was the head position. I instantly saw a difference in my balance and it was infinitely easier to breathe and I made a sub-1:20 100scy interval for the first time in my set of 10.
However, my low stroke rate is still a big issue that is obviously going to take some time to fix. This is especially evident in the footage of me swimming with a band. My whole lower body is fishtailing from side to side and I can't, despite really trying to focusing, increase my stroke rate. What is going on in that footage? Does that drill specifically highlight a weakness that's that's present in my regular stroke?

In addition to abrown's comments, it looks like you are pulling way too wide on both sides now. Gotta get those arms pulling under your body rather than out to the side. Also, i think using the pull buoy plus a looser ankle band, i.e. such that your ankles are about 2-3 inches apart, would allow you to feel what it is like to swim at the proper on-top-of-the-water position with a straight body and zero kick. Some swim shops sell adjustable bands that are really just pieces of rope and/or parachute cord, but if you have some strong cord, you could just make your own:)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis EDIT: New Video Added -- banded [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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Hi all, new here but not to swimming. First, 1:20 interval is not slow. You are doing something right if you are coming from a background that doesn't include tons of swimming. I see your pull is a bit wide, would do better to see if you can aim for pull with thumbtip under your belly button for practice. Also seems you might work on some upper lower body separation to prevent the scissor. Kick is definitely diagonal and thus contributing to the sway. Vertical adds to higher on the water.

But again, you have a great foundation. Stretch those ankles until you can lie prone with feet and ankles touching the floor.
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis EDIT: New Video Added -- banded [Emma'sDad] [ In reply to ]
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well, the interval was 1:40, but I came in at 1:19. My subsequent intervals came in at 1:25-1:30.

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: Fishies, stroke analysis EDIT: New Video Added -- banded [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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in your case, i would avoid using the band. it will do more harm than good.

you need to get back to basic about body position, and stroke mechanic and kicking.


And in your case, the pull boey will be a better tool than the band.....

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
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