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Why do so many runners think...
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Why do so many runners think that a) swimming and biking make you a slower runner or b) swimming and biking won't help you run faster at all.....
As a triathlete/competitive runner I've noticed this stigma amongst fellow running-only runners. I'm sure it's nothing new. But it seems like for myself my best running times, and best 'running high' has come from running combined with lots of swimming and steady cycling.
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Re: Why do so many runners think... [Dash_nic_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Because it's true.

My PRs as a single sport sport athlete:

100yd free 48.85
Bike 4.1w/kg
Run: 5k 16:19

I haven't been able to be in those PR shape all at once. Swimming and cycling add too much mass for me to run that fast and the amount of training to produce those performances is pretty large.
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Re: Why do so many runners think... [Dash_nic_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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My HM pr came after I stopped swimming and biking after the local tri-season ended and started up to 6 days a week of running (FL winter running season).

<We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak>
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Re: Why do so many runners think... [Dash_nic_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Because in order to be a good triathlete, you have to reallocate your time away from running and put it towards swimming and biking. If you are a better runner as a triathlete, there's a pretty good chance that you were underachieving as a single-sport runner.






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Re: Why do so many runners think... [Dash_nic_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Dash_nic_Tri wrote:
Why do so many runners think that a) swimming and biking make you a slower runner or b) swimming and biking won't help you run faster at all.....
As a triathlete/competitive runner I've noticed this stigma amongst fellow running-only runners. I'm sure it's nothing new. But it seems like for myself my best running times, and best 'running high' has come from running combined with lots of swimming and steady cycling.

I agree but just depends on how you want to do what if's. If you are a single sport athlete, and can just kill it without getting hurt, seems clear the "odds" of being faster are there. Just seems to me you are
a higher risk of injury or burn out.

But for a triathlete, I sure have seen nothing negative with having lots of swimming to help the entire race. For the last 6 years I went back to non masters 3 days a week swimming. I have now tried
for the last few months to get 6 to 7 days a week with lots of OWS's and now doing them for an hour. Will see how my races go with this change.

.

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Re: Why do so many runners think... [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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valid. I guess I mean more along the lines of while trying to run PRs... looking at the swimming and cycling in that time frame as just extra aerobic support for running and perhaps to help stay injury free. I definitely wasn't running those PRs and training like a triathlete, more like a runner just trying to get through a tri.
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Re: Why do so many runners think... [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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takes a solid single sport base to pursue the single sport in workouts and stay injury free, and be adapted enough to not 'burnout. That will definitely be interesting to see with the swimming. I've never tried masters but I am more along lines of a 3 swim per week thing, seems to get through most local races.
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Re: Why do so many runners think... [Dash_nic_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Every time I have decided to do a "run focused" training block I have ended up running slower, than I did during periods of more balanced swim-bike-run training.

Here is why I think this happens:
1) 17 hr/wk of swim-bike-run leads to me being in considerably better aerobic shape, than 11 hrs/wk of running
2) It does not matter how little I swim or bike- my body cannot absorb more than 2 hard runs and one long run workout during the course of a week. Doing lots of LSD work just makes me sore and slow.
Last edited by: dirtymangos: Apr 24, 15 20:51
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Re: Why do so many runners think... [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Banter wrote:
Because in order to be a good triathlete, you have to reallocate your time away from running and put it towards swimming and biking. If you are a better runner as a triathlete, there's a pretty good chance that you were underachieving as a single-sport runner.

^^^^This.

If you are a dedicated competitive runner you are doing as much running as you can w/o getting injured or being unable to recover. Add to this the non sport specific muscle mass you are adding when doing other sports (carrying around swimmers lats does not help in a 10k run).

Look at Andy Potts. He is running faster than he did in college (but he was a swimmer, not a runner...just walked onto the track team IIRC), but he isn't swimming faster.

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Re: Why do so many runners think... [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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It's kinda like the whole crossfit mantra vs. actual sport science. The data says specificity to you sport will give you the biggest gains, and Crossfit seems to claim the exact opposite (not the case for most, I suspect). However, if you're a weak person, careful application of strength training will absolutely make you faster.
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Re: Why do so many runners think... [Dash_nic_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Dash_nic_Tri wrote:
takes a solid single sport base to pursue the single sport in workouts and stay injury free, and be adapted enough to not 'burnout. That will definitely be interesting to see with the swimming. I've never tried masters but I am more along lines of a 3 swim per week thing, seems to get through most local races.

I spent like 10 years thinking I could swim on my own and have it mean something.

I finally got off my butt since everyone basically says if you want to get better swimming, you need to get into Masters. So I finally went and asked the coach how many days a week. 3 to stay even, 5 to improve.
So I started in at 5 days a week which I did for a few years. After the first race season, with just this swimming change in my training, I went from like a 17% ranked to 5% ranked in USAT. Went from like a 27 to 24 in Olympic
distance. But the extra from swimming went also into helping my biking, and I believe my running. I remember a racer in my AG coming up to me and asking what did I change since he said he used to get out with me in the swim and battle for winning. Now he said now he never saw me.

So just depends how good you want to be. You may not win a race with your swim, but you can sure lose it.

After going back to 3 days a week non masters for the last 6 years, I am back to trying to do at least 6 days a week swimming. So far in my first few races I felt much stronger during the swim. My races in May will
give me some feedback since I will race Olympic distance with friends who I know how much they always beat me by.

There is no easy way to improve in swimming, other than to just do it more and improve ones swim mechanics.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Why do so many runners think... [Dash_nic_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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If you run 10 miles per week, adding in cycling and swimming will make you a faster runner

If you run 70 miles per week, it won't



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Re: Why do so many runners think... [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
If you run 10 miles per week, adding in cycling and swimming will make you a faster runner

If you run 70 miles per week, it won't

^^^^ This

If you get hurt when you try to run over 25 miles in a week, or more than 3 days a week (as meaningless examples) then adding running and biking help. If you can hammer away day after day after week running and not get hurt then the other 2 sports get in the way.

"...the street finds its own uses for things"
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Re: Why do so many runners think... [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
If you run 10 miles per week, adding in cycling and swimming will make you a faster runner

If you run 70 miles per week, it won't

Yup, you have to consider what limiting factor you will hit.

When I stop running, my biking and swimming both get better. When I stop cycling, I can do more quality runs. When I back off swimming, I have more energy for riding. It's a balancing act.

But you can't compare a 15 hour week of training with a 8 hour week of training. As Jack mentioned, comparing running 30mpw with 8 hours of swimming and biking with running 30 or 40 mpw only isn't a fair comparison.

I do always joke that I might take a break from triathlon in a few years and just run. 70mpw running, time wise, would be easy compared to a typical training load for long course triathlon. That's <10 hours done in 7-8 runs a week. I think my mechanics are too flawed to run over 70 consistently. True elites are doing 90-120mpw but average speed is closer to 6'/mi and their mechanics are better and they can go longer before they come apart.


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Re: Why do so many runners think... [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128 wrote:
jackmott wrote:
If you run 10 miles per week, adding in cycling and swimming will make you a faster runner

If you run 70 miles per week, it won't


Yup, you have to consider what limiting factor you will hit.

When I stop running, my biking and swimming both get better. When I stop cycling, I can do more quality runs. When I back off swimming, I have more energy for riding. It's a balancing act.

But you can't compare a 15 hour week of training with a 8 hour week of training. As Jack mentioned, comparing running 30mpw with 8 hours of swimming and biking with running 30 or 40 mpw only isn't a fair comparison.

I do always joke that I might take a break from triathlon in a few years and just run. 70mpw running, time wise, would be easy compared to a typical training load for long course triathlon. That's <10 hours done in 7-8 runs a week. I think my mechanics are too flawed to run over 70 consistently. True elites are doing 90-120mpw but average speed is closer to 6'/mi and their mechanics are better and they can go longer before they come apart.

getting a little off topic - but...

You may surprise yourself with a buildup to 70+ mpw running. You never know until you try. Your mechanics may be better than you think. decades ago I hit 2 100 mile weeks and didn't get injured. Gotta say for me though; if I did a heavy mileage buildup, I'd still try to hit the pool about 3x a week. Something about swimming makes my legs feel less beat up after long/hard runs. Even if the swims are only medium effort.

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2. __________
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