"Very relevant sidebar to this thread though."

Well, the relevance is that someone who rides outside all the time would likely be less inclined to be facing backwards when riding from light into shadows.

Your ignorance is showing here just as much as it did in the excuses thread.

No need to get mean spirited...sorry if I hit a sore spot.

I think there is an important sidebar discussion going on in this thread that should be stressed related to comfort in riding outdoors.

Some lurkers may get on this thread and say, "great, I never have to ride outdoors cause look at all those studs riding indoors only and kicking ass". Here is the problem. If you are a young stud at the front of the field, then you have a clear path and it's literally like riding on the trainer. When I was in 30-34 racing Wildflower, I literally passed all the 20-29's by 10K into the ride and I passed no one else for the rest of the race (drive by brag, was 8th amateur overall). Fast forward to 45-49, there were >2000 people in the water before I started, and I ended up 53rd overall. On the bike alone I passed something like 1500 people many riding 2-3 abreast, blocking the road and weaving. I swear there were many who never rode a bike before. Same deal at Oceanside a few years ago starting in a later wave. Both competent riders and entry level riders do stand to gain a number of benefits from a certain amount of outdoor riding. I am pretty sure we could point to zero pro cyclists who always ride indoors in training. Theirs is a dynamic high risk environment where the individual's bike control skills and the peers around that person play hand in hand.

FOP young triathletes can have a clear path. Older triathletes will invariably be riding near other cyclists often with massive speed differentials. It would be best for all of us, if as a minimum, everyone spent a bit of time riding outdoors simply for the safety of one another.

I just think a bit of balance is needed in this thread so that new athletes reading don't get the impression that they can never improve their sketchiness in tri bars and its perfectly acceptable to have poor "staying up" skills. I am not saying that any particular stud on this thread is a hazard to other riders, but there are way too many people who are and when they do all their riding on trainers it's not ideal for those around them...just watch the exit of T1 for the best illustration of this dynamic at play.

Now I get to Wildflower in 10 days in the LAST wave of the day. That really sucks badly. Silverman in the AWA athlete wave was awesome. I passed ~20 people early in the bike and then got to ride solo "trainer style" the rest of the day. Reminded me of what it was like racing in my 20's on clear tarmac.

I do 95% of my rides indoor.

Remaining 5% I do outdoors for handling skills, hills and testing various components/upgrades.

Time is a precious commodity for me so I need to be able to jump on bike and off bike at a moment notice. I can't do that riding outdoors. It also takes a solid 15-20min to get out of town (and similarly to get back home) so any real training will require 30-40 minutes of red lights, traffic, etc. Not efficient.

Did two triathlons and one duathlon last year. FOP in two events, MOP in the other. My evaluation is that this is working well for me.

I agree, which is why I spend as little of it as possible staring at the walls in the basement on my trainer. I just can't grasp the idea of riding for the sole purpose of training, I ride bikes because I love to ride bikes. If I didn't, I would find a hobby that doesn't involve riding bikes.

Well, I need to be on hand if I'm needed for some emergency with the kids / wife. I can't be away from home for 3h for the sole reason that I'm training. Granted, I have almost never stepped off the trainer because of an emergency, but I need to be there in case nonetheless.

I never stare at the walls. I either catch up on movies, shows, get some work done, correct / supervise homeworks or even play video games and boardgames alone or with my kids.

Were you able to push more watts than you expected outside?
thank you

Yes but can only go off of "feel" during races. No power meter and have relied on virtual power on my indoor rides. Testing my FTP every few months would imply more watts outside.

If I only did things that were convenient and fun enough for me to love right now, I'd have zero activities and be a fatso on the couch, as my 5 year old child pretty much consumes all of my and my wife's free time. I think many parents of younger kids are in similar predicaments - you'd think having a nonworking wife would give you carte blanche to escape for 4 hours on Saturday or Sunday morning, but what ends up happening is that the spouse is even more hungry for free 'adult' time than you are after watching the kids, so say bye bye to those 3-4 hours on the weekend.

But yes, for sure, I'd never ride indoors even though I have a good setup, if I had the time to ride on safe lovely roads all the time - I live for that stuff, and in fact, being able to ride well on one of those days, even if it's a few times a year, makes all the indoor suffering worth it.

I have a computrainer and ride it reluctantly in the winter months. There are lot's of good reasons to ride indoors. I just think when people talk about how efficient and effective indoor training is they are missing out the best reasons to ride bike. Like I said above, if the only reason I rode was to improve my FTP, I would probably go find a different hobby.

Putting a stairmaster in a freezer would be much safer and efficient than climbing Everest, but it wouldn't really be the same.

Twice before Ironman Arizona(last spring edition). Chicago weather was craptacular in early spring.

I did Saturday-Sunday spin all winter 6 hours Saturdays and 5 hours Sundays -- good times.

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Swim - Bike - Run the rest is just clothing changes.

"Putting a stairmaster in a freezer would be much safer and efficient than climbing Everest, but it wouldn't really be the same."


That is awesome.

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"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude

I don't think those folks who are busting their butts indoors for 'effective training' are missing out.

We ride indoors BECAUSE we don't want to miss out on the great long and hard rides in the moments that we can take advantage of it. Just because we do the bulk of training indoors doesn't mean that we're not enjoying the outdoor stuff - in fact, I'd say we probably enjoy so much more because we don't do it often AND we're in shape to ride well when those opportunities to ride outdoors come along.

I don't think anyone here would ride at all if you told them that for the rest of their life they could never again ride outdoors or race outdoors. But the few times a year we can do it, makes it worth it.

Perfectly acceptable, lots of people don't like the trainer. But like in the do you ever ride without power or HRM thread and people were saying that if you can't ride without those you need a new hobby, that isn't the case as people do hobbies for different reasons. And yes I do ride without them at times.

Do I enjoy cycling? yes my fun rides are with my gf going slow goofing around. I also enjoy training. I enjoy training more than I like just riding bikes at this particular point in my life.

If cycling was just going out and breathing in the fresh air, I'd probably go find another hobby. It doesn't make that bad, it just means it isn't what i personally take from getting on a bike.

Two people doing the same hobby for different reasons doesn't mean the other person is doing it wrong.

As a former cyclist and a late-wave starter, this above is a really great reason to ride outdoors. The traffic does thin out eventually, but the first few miles can be hairy. On loop courses, the terror of the wobbling swerving hybrid never quite seems to go away.

If you don't like to ride in traffic, spend a few bucks on a mountain bike and learn to dodge trees & logs. Plus trying to coax an MTB up a 20+ % grade in the granny gear will give you an interval workout that is tough to beat on an indoor anything.

Meh.

If you're the (much) faster rider, the onus is on you to safely make it around those weaker riders. Sure, it's unpleasant when they literally swerve into your path, but it's easy to read them from behind and exercise caution. After all we faster riders are the ones who have the bike handling skills, so we might as well use them!

I actually enjoy the mess of riders on the course - makes it more fun. The few races where the field was either small enough that I was riding solo almost the entire way on the bike were nowhere near as fun, even if it was somewhat safer.

Also, I encounter a lot of the swervers on loop courses with steep climbs - a lot of them (most of them) swerve because they can barely pedal up the hill - I actually dont' think more bike handling skills will help much when they're literally doing anything they can just to avoid tipping over.

Depends entirely on what you value in terms of activities and experiences. What you describe is a desire to be fit and fast when you can go outdoors to ride. Sounds great, but that is only one way of looking at it. I don't think you can say you enjoy the rides any more or less than someone else.

I'm much more on the side of enjoying the experience. I can tolerate the trainer in the winter, but now that spring is here, I won't likely use it more than 1-2 times a month. Just find no enjoyment in the trainer compared to riding outdoors. I'd rather be outdoors and have a worse workout than be indoors. To each their own.

Yep, that's my point. While you or I might be comfortable in traffic (like you, I enjoy it) the indoor-only trainers don't get to develop the handling skills that might be needed for the tri-slalom. The faster rider bears the responsibility, and should plan accordingly - i.e. know how to handle the bike, look for the right opportunity to pass, leave enough room not to spook the slower rider, give warning if needed, etc.

I strongly suspect that all the faster riders here than train indoors have solid bike handling - at least solid enough to get through a congested triathlon course no problem. Very different from newbs who haven't been outside much.

Which was basically my point. This thread was getting out of hand in the sense that too many people were posting say they never ride outdoors except on race day and have awesome racing. Many from the outside may read this thread and say, "well it works for them and that guy goes sub 9, so I am not going outdoors". Which basically leads to races turning into slalom courses with speed differentials form different waves. It's probably not such a bad thing if people spent some time doing a bit of both.....just like it is nice to train in the pool and bang out a few open water swims in a wetsuit before race day. It's just a level of comfort getting a bit more in tune with the specifics of the race environment.

Even in Kona I have seen guys literally flying 10 feet across the road because they got "HIT" with a wind gust from the side. Anyone with some degree of intelligence realizes there are no wind gusts at Kona. The wind is steady and very laminar. What happens is that when you go from higher lava around you to lower lava you are just exposed to the strong wind differently and so you already know when you will get HIT. There are no surprises....and these guys are FOP people who still can't navigate their bikes even though they are aerobically strong.....going from the trainer bolted into place to riding the tri bike with deep section wheels and wind is not automatic.

It's not such a bad thing for riders of all calibers to get outside a bit too, because that is what we do on race day. Sketchiness is not limited big engines and small engines, its decently universal....and even with all the best intentions and bike handling shit still happens to all of us, but at least some outdoor riding puts one in a better scenario to deal with it.

Did you feel like you could have produce more power on the road or just the same on the trainer?

Before my first road race this year I think I had < 50miles outdoors, and 0 miles outdoors on that bike. Before Wildflower I think I had maybe 200miles outside, but under 5 days of riding outside. Its been a long/rough Pittsburgh winter.

I'm in the camp of being able to produce power equally indoors vs. outdoors.